23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Mbednar]

Yup.  And if every relay went supernova, then Shepard basically committed galactic genocide, wiping out 99% of advanced life in the galaxy.

The only survivors would be those living on colonies outside of systems with relays.

Modifié par Mbednar, 24 mars 2012 - 10:28 .

[Flyers215]

Mbednar wrote...

whalewhisker wrote...


Isn't everyone stranded on Earth, though? :/ All the species would be kumbayaing together already.

We don't even know due to plot holes.

Earth could be destroyed due to the Mass Relays destruction.  Which is likely, and explains why the Normandy was fleeing the explosion at the end.

How is that a plot hole?  That's more like an omission of information.

[jeweledleah]

Kadayi wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I beg to differ.  I want a happy ending. an option of one.  a Babilon 5 ending.  ME1 and ME2 type ending.

Corrected for accuracy. The relays getting destroyed doesn't necessarily mean the universe is screwed. You can blow a bomb up or you can deactivate it, it's rendered useless either way. FTL travel is possible, it just takes longer is all. 

how long would it take exactly to travel between clusters by ftl?  decades?  centuries?  without refueling, without inhabitable plantets to descharge the drives into?  how far are they going to get, before they are stranded and forced to slowly starve?

no.  FTL is only good enough for travel within the cluster.  and Sol system only has, well.. sol system.  Krogan DMZ has no garden planets, so no food fro stranded Krogan.. what's left of them.  there are relatively small colonies all over the place, many industrial, incapable of growing their own food, unprepared for starting to do so, because they are used to getting supply shipments... via relay network.

the society at this point is spread too thin.  no one is completely self sustaining.  earth?  is in shambles from reaper attacks, how is it supposed to sustain an entire galactic fleet?  that includes 2 dextro species.  and Krogan.  those very same Krogan that need to be sedated when in enclosed areas for any length of time, or they get claustrophobic and distructive (this is something you learn from EDI by the way).

no our current civilization?  is pretty much over.  the only species that have a chance to survive and develop?  are the non space fairing ones.  becasue they are the only once who can prodice everything they need within their own planet

[helloween7]

Flyers215 wrote...

This was posted on an IGN review as a comment and I like what he had to say. I thought I'd bring it here. I don't take responsibility for the poor grammar, but I did make a censor:

"What if you liked the ending? They're opinions just don't count? The ending deals with the difficult and complex theme of order vs. chaos and has the balls and intelligence to say there is no right choice. When the idea of morality in video games has been degrading into either giving puppies to orphans or to slaughter the puppies as the orphans watch, then slaughter the orphans. Its refreshing to see a game to basically say there is no moral high ground that gives you that perfectly wrapped up and blissfully naive happy ending. But considering the fact that Bioware have already decided to give an alternative ending, I hope they charge an obscene amount of money for it and it ends with the game calling you out on being a whinny little ******* and an even less conclusive ending."

But when has the Mass Effect stoy been about Order vs. Chaos, except at the very end?

One of the main problems of the ending is that it feels thematically disconnected and even in contradiction with the key themes of the 3 games. 

There was an undercurrent of man vs. machine in the first game (Sovereign the big evil sentient spaceship, Saren the cyborg, the Geth, the rogue VIs.) But the game was about man vs. machine the same way LOTR and Star Wars were about that, IMO. The issue was there, it was somewhat important, but it wasn't what the game whas ultimately about. 

However, the second game went out of its way to establish that this was no longer a theme of the series, AT ALL, by humanizing the Geth and the AIs (in the form of EDI). And the third game took that even further by giving EDI and the Geth true sentience (or killing off the Geth).

One way or another, when Shepard reaches the Starchild, the only synthetic threat to the Galaxy are Reapers themselves, and that's why it's so frustrating not being able to call the Starchild on this.

And even if man vs. machine was still a theme of the story at that point, Shepard, Renegade or Paragon, should have told the Starchild to leave the Galaxy alone and let humanity (and the rest of the galactic races) take their chances. Because Shepard's agency and determination against impossible odds ARE key themes of the three games. 

Not to mention the circular logic of the Reapers. (which it's been already repeated ad nauseam.)



And the thing is, I for one didn't need an explanation of why the Reapers wipe out Galactic civilizations; I already had one explanation that I liked: i. e. that's how Reapers reproduce. We are nothing but cattle to them and they are doing us a favor by giving us the privilege to achieve the ultimate state of being and becoming a Reaper. The rest of the advanced races are wiped out because they are deemed unsuitable/unworthy of ascension (and to ensure they don't become too advanced and get ideas). I loved how removed from our morality this logic is, and, at the same time, how I can understand the point of view of both the Reapers and the organics.

That's how it was in Mass Effect 2 (and it isn't in contradiction with Mass Effect 1), and they should have run with it, IMO, instead of trying to add a twist at the end in this respect.

Well, the Order v. Chaos twist falls flat because there isn't the proper groundwork (foreshadowing) for it and it's poorly implemented.  



So we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. You like the ending and feel it's meaningful. Good for you.

I don't. 

Modifié par helloween7, 24 mars 2012 - 12:17 .

[Mbednar]

Flyers215 wrote...

Mbednar wrote...

whalewhisker wrote...


Isn't everyone stranded on Earth, though? :/ All the species would be kumbayaing together already.

We don't even know due to plot holes.

Earth could be destroyed due to the Mass Relays destruction.  Which is likely, and explains why the Normandy was fleeing the explosion at the end.

How is that a plot hole?  That's more like an omission of information.

Because the Crucible was special.  Technically we don't know the exact
effect it had on the relays.  NORMALLY relays go supernova when
destroyed.  But odds are, to save earth, Bioware's epilogue will say
that the reaction of the crucible wasn't natural.  And that the relays
didn't go supernova.

The fact is, we don't know until they clarify.

Modifié par Mbednar, 24 mars 2012 - 10:33 .

[Chewbacca99]

Don't know if this has been posted here already, but an excellent treatise by a writer on the ending: http://jmstevenson.w...-mass-effect-3/

"No one with any artistic integrity would have let that absolute debacle of an ending be released. No one. The ending was so inexcusable on so many levels, that I can’t help but laugh at people’s attempts to defend it by calling it art. As if Art were not subject to ridicule and criticism."

Amen

[garytwine]

Ourik wrote...

First off I gotta give props to bioware. Mass effect 3 was amazing. I loved every minute. From Mordins death to the epic space battle sequence. Amazing. 

Next I want to say to all you dumbasses who can't fathom thinking for yourselves. Stop ****ing about the ending/s. it was designed to allow you (the player) create your own ideas and your own theories as to the consiquences of shepards actions. If you need someone to explain to you every detail then you shouldn't be playing in the first place. The creators of any game/book/movie/play have the right to decide how their story begins and how it ends. It is up to you to have an inkling of imagination to fill in anything they haven't told you. 

So please everyone just stop complaining. No one wants to hear it and you have no power to force bioware or anyone else to change what they have created. It's art plain and simple. If you can't comprehend it then GTFO. 

Sorry dude but I have to disagree. Everyone has an opinion and they have the right to air it. Bioware themselves have said as much. 


If everyone just kept their thoughts to themselves how could anything in life ever grow and evolve? Without both positive and negative feedback Bioware wouldn't be able to keep creating successful games that people want to spend their hard earned money on. 


Feedback is why the game mechanics of Mass Effect 2 differ from those of Mass Effect 1 (for the better in many peoples opinions).


I don't think someone should be called a '******' for wanting more closure and wanting to know what happens to everyone their character leaves behind after they make the ultimate sacrifice. 


Yeah, when you die in real life you don't get to find out what happens to the people you love whom you leave behind. That doesn't mean a  story should end the same way though. Most stories have an epilogue and closure of some kind. Either that or 'to be continued' on the final page.


The ending plays like an adventure novel where your decisions choose the direction but finally, no matter what, they all lead you to the same last page.


 For a trilogy of games famous  for exploring every option and giving the player a real choice to make key decisions, leaving the ending to exposition and guess work is starkly out of place, confusing and just leaves leave the questions "was that it? did I do something wrong or miss something?".


"It's art plain and simple"? No, creation for creations sake and expression is art. 


Creation for the final result of getting paid is design. 


I would never tell an artist to change their art on the basis of my opinion. I either like it or I don't. They are creating for their own reasons. For their own enjoyment.


I would definitely tell a designer to change something I think needs improving if their reason is to sell the design to me and keep on designing things they want me to buy. 


This is the opinion of professional Designer of 15 years experience who has worked for some very well known and professional companies in his life. 


In your opinion though I guess I must be a ****** who doesn't know what he's talking about and should "GTFO".

Modifié par garytwine, 24 mars 2012 - 10:52 .

[weltraumhamster89]

jeweledleah wrote...

I beg to differ.  We DO want a happy ending. an option of one.  a Babilon 5 ending.  ME1 and ME2 type ending.

I'm just as tired of "no, we just want clarity" brigade as I am of "sunshine and rainbows and puppies" brigade.  neither is entirely correct.

even if the endings are "clarified"  galactic civilization is STILL screwed without relays.  the endings are STILL far too similar.  and as a result - the game is non replayable, and there's absolutely no motivation to buying any more DLC's for it.  for quite a few of us

Agreed. 

[Zoso the Golden]

Congratulations BioWare on THE cliffhanger ending in the history of gaming! Looking forward to how it all plays out in the end.

Even the song title for the credits was chosen carefully: "Das Malefitz" is a very rare German expression for "Renegade action" (ruthless/godless/evil/... act). ("Der Malefitz" would be a renegade).
 The option you have to take in the Indoctrination/Dream sequence to survive is Destruction, marked as Red and thereby associated with Renegade... and what BioWare did by creating this cliffhanger ending (which few realize it is) qualifies as well, I think.  

[Mbednar]

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I beg to differ.  We DO want a happy ending. an option of one.  a Babilon 5 ending.  ME1 and ME2 type ending.

I'm just as tired of "no, we just want clarity" brigade as I am of "sunshine and rainbows and puppies" brigade.  neither is entirely correct.

even if the endings are "clarified"  galactic civilization is STILL screwed without relays.  the endings are STILL far too similar.  and as a result - the game is non replayable, and there's absolutely no motivation to buying any more DLC's for it.  for quite a few of us

Agreed. 

Agreed

For what its worth, which is nothing because Bioware is only hearing what they want to hear...

Agreed.

Modifié par Mbednar, 24 mars 2012 - 10:45 .

[AkaXan]

yjchew wrote...

Don't know if this has been posted here already, but an excellent treatise by a writer on the ending: http://jmstevenson.w...-mass-effect-3/

"No one with any artistic integrity would have let that absolute debacle of an ending be released. No one. The ending was so inexcusable on so many levels, that I can’t help but laugh at people’s attempts to defend it by calling it art. As if Art were not subject to ridicule and criticism."

Amen

Fully agree. All the interviews and promisses of the players actions having influence on the outcome of our Mass Effect journey/story was all just a lie, if this was the way it was ment to go regardless of what we did.

Its case of Bioware thinking:
1) Hay, we get to scam more money out of our fans by giving them such a bad eneding that they will beg for a new one. Lets face it they got our money, they seem to only really care what the reveiwers think, so why should they care about the fans now. Because after putting out that end I just dont see how the care.

2) They screwed up. They genuinely beleived that the were making an artfull masterful end to the Mass Effect Trilogy, that fans would love and know they realise that its all gone wrong and now have to pull the artisic inegrity card as a sheild, whille the scramble to come up with a fix things. Again free ending DLC would be a safe fix.

3) It was rush job, with the intention of fixing things with free DLC later to smooth things out and make good with fans and the good chaps at Bioware just didnt fully understand how bad the reaction would be.

4) The main writers passed out at some point and it was upto the coffe boy to finish the end.

5) The normal writing by peer approval got scrapped at the end by a higher up and his/thier bad ending is what we got.

I really dont want numbers 1 and 5 to be true, but with this generation its sadly became more acceptable to screw over people, be it your fans our your own staff. Whats even stranger is you get people telling you its all fine and we should do nothing. Just look at the ones defending the poor as hell ending to a series that was shaping up to be one of the great trilogies out there. Now its just going to be remembered as the games that were great right up to the end were they got ruind.

Just to be clear none of my post is a personnal attack. Its a post born out of sheer frustration that nobody seems to really care what fans think anymore. Mass Effect 3 was great and should have ended with all our work paying off, with Bioware still guiding things like they have been.

No one has said they shouldnt be able to guide ME in an overall direction they feel is right. Us fans just feel that those promises of our actions, of our time invested would still give us at least a small personall touch to our journey with the Mass Effect games, be it one players shep surviving, another players shep spending thier last moments with a lover or just seeing thier teamates doing ok after it all. A a small personnal touch that would have still played into Bioware bigger plans. But we didnt get that.

Modifié par AkaXan, 24 mars 2012 - 11:34 .

[Leem_0001]

Flyers215 wrote...

Mbednar wrote...

whalewhisker wrote...


Isn't everyone stranded on Earth, though? :/ All the species would be kumbayaing together already.

We don't even know due to plot holes.

Earth could be destroyed due to the Mass Relays destruction.  Which is likely, and explains why the Normandy was fleeing the explosion at the end.

How is that a plot hole?  That's more like an omission of information.

You answered your own question - an omission of information, enough so that what is presented makes no sense, is a plot hole.

[chujwamdotego]

Mbednar wrote...

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I beg to differ.  We DO want a happy ending. an option of one.  a Babilon 5 ending.  ME1 and ME2 type ending.

I'm just as tired of "no, we just want clarity" brigade as I am of "sunshine and rainbows and puppies" brigade.  neither is entirely correct.

even if the endings are "clarified"  galactic civilization is STILL screwed without relays.  the endings are STILL far too similar.  and as a result - the game is non replayable, and there's absolutely no motivation to buying any more DLC's for it.  for quite a few of us

Agreed. 

Agreed

For what its worth, which is nothing because Bioware is only hearing what they want to hear...

Agreed.

Agreed. Now we just have to convince Bioware, that 1 happy ending out of 16 promised is not THAT much.

I looked through many posts in this thread and the other "official feedback" one and it seems that a great number of fans does want to live the happy ending.

It doesn't mean original endings should be deleted. It is just major request for new endings.

If reaching happy ending means getting high paragon/renegade values or high War Assets - that's fine.

I also declare that I'll pay handsomely for any DLC that will add new endings, co it can be win-win situation for both parties involved.

[Starchs]

All except the endings

[weltraumhamster89]

chujwamdotego wrote...

Mbednar wrote...

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I beg to differ.  We DO want a happy ending. an option of one.  a Babilon 5 ending.  ME1 and ME2 type ending.

I'm just as tired of "no, we just want clarity" brigade as I am of "sunshine and rainbows and puppies" brigade.  neither is entirely correct.

even if the endings are "clarified"  galactic civilization is STILL screwed without relays.  the endings are STILL far too similar.  and as a result - the game is non replayable, and there's absolutely no motivation to buying any more DLC's for it.  for quite a few of us

Agreed. 

Agreed

For what its worth, which is nothing because Bioware is only hearing what they want to hear...

Agreed.

Agreed. Now we just have to convince Bioware, that 1 happy ending out of 16 promised is not THAT much.

I looked through many posts in this thread and the other "official feedback" one and it seems that a great number of fans does want to live the happy ending.

It doesn't mean original endings should be deleted. It is just major request for new endings.

If reaching happy ending means getting high paragon/renegade values or high War Assets - that's fine.

I also declare that I'll pay handsomely for any DLC that will add new endings, co it can be win-win situation for both parties involved.

Agreed and underlined. BW should read this. We are NOT a MINORITY! We are their goddamn fanbase, their most loyal and thus most disappointed fans.

[Kr0gan]

I love the game.. i hate the endings.

I don't need a happy ending, i need an ending that makes sense, not something rushed... please, I invested a lot of feelings in this game (yeah, I know that's pathetic but is still true and I think I'm not the only one).

A good ending is the only DLC wich I intend to buy (if it exists) but is the last blackmail I'll accept from you.

[tg0618]

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I beg to differ.  We DO want a happy ending. an option of one.  a Babilon 5 ending.  ME1 and ME2 type ending.

I'm just as tired of "no, we just want clarity" brigade as I am of "sunshine and rainbows and puppies" brigade.  neither is entirely correct.

even if the endings are "clarified"  galactic civilization is STILL screwed without relays.  the endings are STILL far too similar.  and as a result - the game is non replayable, and there's absolutely no motivation to buying any more DLC's for it.  for quite a few of us

Agreed. 

Me too.

[Rubicon83]

jeweledleah wrote...

I beg to differ.  We DO want a happy ending. an option of one.  a Babilon 5 ending.  ME1 and ME2 type ending.

Uhm, Babylon 5 ended badly, seeing as how there was a keeper sealed away in that jar that was given to president Sheridan by Londo. You just knew then that, whatever happened, the ISA would be corrupted and taken over by the Drakh. And then came that whole "plague on the Earth" thing and it went even more badly.
Wouldn't exactly call that happy ^^

Just saying, i'd hate for Bioware to make an ending that made the universe even MORE screwed up.

[stupify]

I thought the mass relays provided instantaneous transportation?

[ZeoxPT]

I honestly believe Bioware should hire a complete new team of writers for the sake of a free fully-fledged plot-hole solving ending DLC. Hell, some of the writers might even be recruited from these forums. Pretty sure there are talented and creative people that are more invested as players in the ME saga than any of the writers have ever been.

[Sean Leentvaar]

 


( please dont mind my bad english ) , i posted on the twitter a few times, but those messages are too short too tell you guys what i really think.

I have played mass effect from the start and have played with only one save, i really feeled like i was being sucked in too this legendary adventure and to stay true to the story and my choices i stayed with one save ( one story ) only. after mass effect 1 i stoped playing , waiting for mass effect 2 ( altough i must say tis was verry hard )cause i couldnt get enough, and after another legendary game you guys made, i waited for mass effect 3 
wich is also a gift from heaven

i romanced with liara and i am a biotic troughout the whole game, At this point ( how strange this may sound ) i REALLY care fore the characters especialy liara wich i am still loyal too

the are so musch alive when you see the feelings and pain the go trough and the voice acting is superb !
the feel almost real 

I wanted you guys to know that you have created the ultimate game for me. 

But as a lot of other fans say  please , can you do something about the ending. it just all feels so empty.. when i play the game , knowing that liara and sherpard will not be together in the end
that there is no REAL happy ending 

and i respect your artistic view on the ending 
I really do

but please cant you bring more options into the ending 
like an extra option you can choose so that the commander can be with his or her romance and have a true happy ending
And maby baby 's 

this for me would mean closure while maintaining the original ending you guys wanted 

in that way everyone is happy, even the fans that dont want the ending chaned because its just a extra option

i am asking you this as a loyal fan of bioware 

Please dont let it stay with what we have now


you guys are the best !

Sean leenvaar[/list][/list][/i]

[DuncanId]

jeweledleah wrote...

I beg to differ.  We DO want a happy ending. an option of one.  a Babilon 5 ending.  ME1 and ME2 type ending.

I'm just as tired of "no, we just want clarity" brigade as I am of "sunshine and rainbows and puppies" brigade.  neither is entirely correct.

even if the endings are "clarified"  galactic civilization is STILL screwed without relays.  the endings are STILL far too similar.  and as a result - the game is non replayable, and there's absolutely no motivation to buying any more DLC's for it.  for quite a few of us

Agreed. I don't understand how they changed  from "there's no canon" to what they did.

[Qklatte117]

The graphics were amazing; so cinematic; and at times so realistic. And the gameplay was great; I love the variety of options that you give to the player. I give them a 10. 'A' for the story. It was phenomenal. Sometimes you would forget that you're playing and it's be like a movie. How you kept referring to the previous games and assignments was superb; you didn't forget about what we've done in the past. And the inside jokes were great of course. How you had Shepard finally breaking down; it was so human; so real how you finally showed what it was like under that mask that she has to keep up in front of everyone to give them hope; even though it's fading the more you get into the story. How you display each character's problems; hopes; and beliefs; you even went into their backgrounds; it was so real. I love the realism of the situations in the game; even though it's a sci-fi epic; you made us believe that the situations were so life-like (bad wording, i know).

The ending; I have no words to describe it. But I definitely didn't hate it. My best friend watched the ending; and she says it's how I write my stories; and I'm just talking about the last few hours in general. She calls me an evil writer for doing those things; but my readers can't help but like it and be angry at the same time. So it was kind of a payback for all that I've written; which I thought was ironic. The ending; the actual ending now; it was really depressing; but still great; very heroic. I just kind of wish there was more. I want to know what happened to your crew afterwards; what they think and how they are doing. I don't mind if you kept the ending the way it is.But there's that little voice within me that says that Shepard should live. And that's only because I want her to be with Kaidan. And actually have time and not have to save everybody. That's the sap within me. If you want to appeal to the crowd; go for the happy ending; there aren't many people who appreciate what you have now; though I think it's fantastic- beyond words. The endings have the same outcome, or an outcome that appears to be the same, because of what happens to Shepard and the Reapers stop fighting, also the relays blow up. They want a different ending, a happy ending.

[DarkValor]

ZeoxPT wrote...

I honestly believe Bioware should hire a complete new team of writers for the sake of a free fully-fledged plot-hole solving ending DLC. Hell, some of the writers might even be recruited from these forums. Pretty sure there are talented and creative people that are more invested as players in the ME saga than any of the writers have ever been.

I don't think antagonising them helps anyone. Bioware screwed up. It happens. People aren't perfect, but at least people can fix their mistakes if they choose to. I just hope, for them, that they fix it in such a way that the majority of those that are unhappy can move on and hopefully, in the process, Bioware walks away having learnt something.

Honestly, I believe that the whole indoctrination theory is their ticket out of this mess. Even if this wasn't 'the idea all along' it would really add something special to Mass Effect.

Cheers,
Dark.

Edit: formatting errors *shakes fist*

Modifié par DarkValor, 24 mars 2012 - 12:00 .

[DarkShadow]

One of the statements of Bioware still makes me pessimistic, namely "we will add FURTHER closure". That awfully sounds like keeping the ending.

Once again reading the discussion here, I think you should pay a visit to the thread in my signature and add to it. I feel a little bit bad promoting a thread I made, but I think it's for the greater good.