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[ElMuchu]

dormouse03 wrote...

ElMuchu wrote...

dormouse03 wrote...

Just wanted to say that I am currently playing through a second time on insanity, and I am really trying hard to ignore my feelings about the ending and enjoy the rest of the game.  But it is difficult.  I played through ME1 and 2 multiple times, and it is my habit to try to do everything possible, every side mission, every random conversation.

But playing through ME3 again...whenever I am doing a sidequest (especially those that are gathering assets and are not fleshed out missions with interesting characters that make me forget that ending for a few minutes) I just say to myself: "why am I doing this?"  The ending takes all of the meaning out of doing any of those things.  In ME1 or 2, going down to planets and finding minerals or mining was perhaps tedius, but at least it felt like I was doing it for some purpose.  These sidequests now serve NO purpose. 

And every time someone mentions that Crucible, I want to tell them: this is not what we should be doing!  Stop!  Turn back now!  Abandon all hope, ye who enter here!  
                                                                                                     

I feel the same way. That is one of the reasons that make me requesting the same knid of endings than Mass Effect 2 ones:
- at least one where we could kick the ass of star child and destroy all the reapers thanks to the army we have built (lot of war assets needed), then Shep lives and start rebuilding everything with the survivors and his/her love interest
- a middle one ending based on the existing ones but completed to fill the blanks
- a saddest one where Shepard makes the ultimate sacrifice.

Honestly Mass Effect 1 and 2 endings were perfect since they are well balance, not fully happiness but sufficient hope and among all, we can have a living hero that makes us proud of what we have accomplished.
They gave me the desire the play the game again and again to see all the combinations of dialogues, actions.. we can have. Honestly, I think that I passed around 200 - 300 hours on the first two games.....

Please Bioware, you did a great jobs with Mass Effect series, listen to you fans for ME3 endings. Except the end, it was a so damn awesome game, give me a good goal to play to it again and again. I just want that. Once again, except the end, it is one of the best game (maybe the best) I ever played.On that point I agezz with Ray Muzyka

Good to know I'm not alone.  99% of this game is pure gold.  It is still hard for me to believe how much damage that last 1% actually does.  For both ME1 and 2, I immediately started new plathroughs right after I finished the games.  For this one, it took nearly a week, and even then it was with far less enthusiasm.

Yes exactly, I do not understand why they did not keep the ME2 endings system.

[urbanmagician]

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

chujwamdotego wrote...

Mbednar wrote...

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I beg to differ.  We DO want a happy ending. an option of one.  a Babilon 5 ending.  ME1 and ME2 type ending.

I'm just as tired of "no, we just want clarity" brigade as I am of "sunshine and rainbows and puppies" brigade.  neither is entirely correct.

even if the endings are "clarified"  galactic civilization is STILL screwed without relays.  the endings are STILL far too similar.  and as a result - the game is non replayable, and there's absolutely no motivation to buying any more DLC's for it.  for quite a few of us

Agreed. 

Agreed

For what its worth, which is nothing because Bioware is only hearing what they want to hear...

Agreed.

Agreed. Now we just have to convince Bioware, that 1 happy ending out of 16 promised is not THAT much.

I looked through many posts in this thread and the other "official feedback" one and it seems that a great number of fans does want to live the happy ending.

It doesn't mean original endings should be deleted. It is just major request for new endings.

If reaching happy ending means getting high paragon/renegade values or high War Assets - that's fine.

I also declare that I'll pay handsomely for any DLC that will add new endings, co it can be win-win situation for both parties involved.

Agreed and underlined. BW should read this. We are NOT a MINORITY! We are their goddamn fanbase, their most loyal and thus most disappointed fans.

Agreed here too. And I'd like to discuss the happy vs angsty issue a little:

First, let's get the personal out of the way: I find the "children who can't stomach the fact that true art is angsty" people rather curious, since in my experience, it's actually chidlren who insist that true art is angsty, and that angsty = realistic = epic. It usually means they just haven't experienced real grief yet. Well, I hope they'll never have to, and that these squabbles we're having now will be the worst problems we all ever face. Peace, people.

Now. To me, angsty just looks like the easiest way to provoke emotion and look "hardcore and original", and therefore it's much cheaper than a well thought out, detailed pwn-ending that would still be hardcore and original for other reasons. Frankly, there's so much angst over the course of ME3 (at least in my only playthrough as of yet, I suppose I wasn't making too much of the "correct" choices during the games. It's a rather lousy concept IMO, that "correctness", especially since we were mislead to believe you have freedom.) that by the end of it I grew jaded and apathetic, and couldn't give a toss anymore, since I got into the "life sucks and then you die" vibe. There's only so much tear-jerking one can stand until it loses impact.

My intention was to say that I play games to win. I freely admit that I'm a social loser IRL, so I pay for the ability to feel like a Hollywood blockbuster winner in a videogame. You know, save the universe, get the girl/boy, get to say "hasta la vista, baby". And as the song went, "you'll never be better than Commander Shepard" so he was perfect for the job. And yes, I expected a Hollywood ending for the series of games that seemed to follow the genre and lead up to one. In reality though, first I was angry at having to play the multiplayer mode, which I find boring and frustrating, then I was devastated by the fact that even getting the perfect score by bothering with the multiplayer still didn't give you a good ending. Because there's just no way to win this one. I was put through an emotional wringer and ended up depressed like woah,
and feeling like throwing the first games out into the trash, because I can't bear replaying any of them knowing the ending. That nothing I did or will do actually matters, that my squad abandons me, and so on.

And then I realized that it's not even that simple. I don't always play to win. I just finished Dear Esther when it came out as a standalone game, and I enjoyed it immensely. There was no win there, there was no happiness, there was no coherence, and it didn't matter because I did not expect any. I played it for a different kind of emotional and mental stimulation, and I got what I was looking for. And that game is barely even a game. With all due respect, that is what I'd call art, and artistic choice. ME are games, great ones until this fiasco, (I mean, it actually has gameplay...) and this did not give me what I expected or what I was looking for. I wasn't really looking for pure happiness, but I certainly looked for a solid win and for coherence.

Modifié par urbanmagician, 24 mars 2012 - 12:12 .

[DuncanId]

Rubicon83 wrote...


Uhm, Babylon 5 ended badly, seeing as how there was a keeper sealed away in that jar that was given to president Sheridan by Londo. You just knew then that, whatever happened, the ISA would be corrupted and taken over by the Drakh. And then came that whole "plague on the Earth" thing and it went even more badly.

Wouldn't exactly call that happy ^^

One quote from the season 4 finale:

"This is how the world ends, swallowed in fire, but not in darkness. You will live on. The voice of all our ancestors, the voice of our fathers and our mothers to the last generation. We created the world we think you would've wished for us. And now we leave the cradle for the last time"

Babylon 5 did something amazing in my opinion. At the end of the fourth season they showed us the long term repercussions of what happend. Sheridan became a legend, the events were forgotten and reinterpreted, and even a cultural de-evolution to the dark ages. But in the end, and thanks to the existence of the rangers, the humans managed to survive until they became vorlon-like creatures.

And after that, at the end of season 5, in what was going to be the real ending for season 4, we saw the future of the characters when they reunited for sheridan's "death" and de closure of the babylon station. There were bumps along the ride, but everything ended ok. Sheridan had to die, but at least he could spend his final years with delenn. And then, Lorien took him beyond the rim to join the others.

I think that was a happy ending even though it wasn't "rainbows and unicons". It had sad moments, but it was ok. S**t was coming, but in the end they would learn from the mistakes made.

If only ME3 ending was half that good...

Modifié par DuncanId, 24 mars 2012 - 12:13 .

[Rubicon83]

I know what you mean, but still, the similarities with ME3 hits me. Babylon 5 ends very abruptly in Season 5, if you discount the episode Sleeping in Light as a lazy shortcut to the future where Sheridan eventually dies. Sure, right there and then its all good, Drakh war and telepath war are over... but that's exactly the point.. there were things in the immediate future after Londo's inaguration that made me say: "Whoa? wait a minute, major plot twist here... and you're just gonna leave it hangin'? We're just gonna have to imagine it??" .. as in ME3 ... we saw what happened to Shepard, we saw the big choice that "ended it all" and how somehow, it all speeded up to a distant future where some kid and his grandpa watches the moon in a purple landscape. Again, lazy shortcut.
We never got closure in regards to what happened to the interstellar political scene and alla characters that lived during that time in the aftermath.
It just comes through as a not-so-subtle way to deal with writer's block.

[DuncanId]

Rubicon83 wrote...

I know what you mean, but still, the similarities with ME3 hits me. Babylon 5 ends very abruptly in Season 5, if you discount the episode Sleeping in Light as a lazy shortcut to the future where Sheridan eventually dies. Sure, right there and then its all good, Drakh war and telepath war are over... but that's exactly the point.. there were things in the immediate future after Londo's inaguration that made me say: "Whoa? wait a minute, major plot twist here... and you're just gonna leave it hangin'? We're just gonna have to imagine it??" .. as in ME3 ... we saw what happened to Shepard, we saw the big choice that "ended it all" and how somehow, it all speeded up to a distant future where some kid and his grandpa watches the moon in a purple landscape. Again, lazy shortcut.
We never got closure in regards to what happened to the interstellar political scene and alla characters that lived during that time in the aftermath.
It just comes through as a not-so-subtle way to deal with writer's block.

That's a good point, but keep in mind that they had some problems with the final seasons. We could have had closure if babylon 5, crusader or the legend of the rangers weren't cancelled. But I'll admit that the keeper moment whas a real WTF moment.

Still, it had more closure than ME3.

Modifié par DuncanId, 24 mars 2012 - 01:03 .

[Rane7685]

Some guy PM'd me kindly requesting I post his message on his behalf (because he cant). He wants to take part in the discussion. Its long and I havent read it and as such does not represent my views. His name is MerkerB so address your comments to him

MerkerB wrote...
This is my idea of the ending of ME3 built while taking into consideration the different declarations by Bioware about „every decision matters, you choose the battles you want to fight, and how to end the war” and what Hacket says to Shephard, that he must command the allied forces.

The overall build of the game is well done, with all the asset gathering and the missions are actually superb, my favorites being the genophage cure and the quarian/geth conflict.
Now after you solve the Thessia mission, Hacket tells you you must go after cerberus. From this point on, Shephard should be the one choosing where to direct the allied fleets, based on the fact that HE gathered the whole force, HE maintains the diplomatic relations and HE has earned the trust of the whole galaxy, even of the pricky Asari and the treacherous Salarians.

So now you have a limited number of battles to choose from in which to weaken the reaper fleet overall before the final assault on Earth. After cerberus you can choose to go for other key places like Palaven, Thessia, the volus homeworld etc in which you weaken the Reaper hold on the galaxy and decrease the efficiency of the reaper defense of Earth. If you choose right and strike fast you manage to send the Reaper forces into disarray and make them regroup, which they do, at Earth, which also forces them to retake the citadel because either you a) Cerberus told the info about the Catalyst if you do save the collector base in ME2(they get indoctrinated faster); or b)They want to circumvent the Mass Relay network like they did in the prothean time, unaware of the Catalyst because TIM didn’t get the info to them as he wasn’t fully indoctrinated(he still escapes though). The fact that they didn’t do this in the first attack waves on the galaxy remains a mystery.

Now, the war assets you gathered should also be split into 4 areas
1) Overall space fleet strength, which is useful in all the major space battles but might affect ground efficiency. It affects the outcome of the space battles around the galaxy and the ending at Earth. If you don’t get enough ships, the Crucible gets destroyed and you lose, or you lose in your attacks on key battlegrounds.
2) Ground forces, very important for the final push with hammer. Depending on who you aquire and how many you get whole different outcomes and paths to your objective. If you get too few ground troops, the outcome is like now, and Shepard is alone and wounded greatly decreasing the chance of him surviving the end. If you get the max amount of troops, Shepard arrives unharmed and has people with him on the Citadel. The special type of ground forces should help you a lot, like for example if you acquire Krogan mercs and assari commandoes they will help you through the segment where you get to the reaper guarding the elevator and you take minimal casualties. The Geth show up when defending the missiles and again minimize casualties and actually take down the guarding reaper without much of a fuss. Also, you do acquire several special transport ships like the Elcor flotilla. So if you get that hammer arrives with over 90% strength and you get elcor tank people for the final push.
3) Citadel defense force. This should make a huge impact on what you fiind on the Citadel. If you get it strong enough, there are still people fighting when you get there, so even if you arrive alone and wounded you get help and meet Bayley again, increasing the chance of survival for Shepard.
4) Engineers for the Crucible- again huge effect on the outcome. If you manage to get all the possible upgrades for the Crucible it fires fast and properly. If on the other hand you don’t bother too much with it and even get the fake Rachni that kill the engineers the Crucible will misfire or explode too soon and the Reapers will survive and the outcome will depend on your fleet strength if the galaxy can finish the remaining ones off. Or it will get completed too late and you face increased reaper forces at Earth and lose all support on the Citadel when you get there.

Now, the places you choose to send the fleets to will impact a new factor, like Reaper defense efficiency for Earth. If you ignore all other possible battlegrounds and go for Earth you will face them at 100% and you will lose a lot of ships, making it hard even with max military assets to get the best ending.
Also, each place you save before running out of time will net you bonuses. Example, save palaven and number of turian ships doubles. Save Thessia and you get more assari fleets and commandoes. Save volus and you get some resources but no troops. Etc.

As you arrive at Earth you get to direct the fleet attack. For example, you can choose a cautious approach and make the Reapers come for you and minimise losses or go for a direct assault and lose a lot of ships, unless you got really strong front like forces like the geth who manage to hold it together. There should be key moments in the battle in which you must sacrifice parts of the fleet in order to punch a hole for the troop transports. For example your left flank is failing and you have to choose wether to a) leave it to fail and direct forces into the middle and punch a hole, bringing the troops faster but losing 25% of the fleet , reinforce it but lengthen the time it takes to get to the citadel putting strain on the ground troops, or c) if you have gathered enough allies like both geth and quarians the geth go for the weakened flank and reinforce it and quarians support them with long range fire from those modified liveships(this is Paragon/renegade option); if you only have the geth without quarians they reinforce the flank but suffer too many casualties to help with the ground assault. Other such examples can be left to the imagination, but it should be similar to the choices at the end of ME1, where you could choose to sacrifice ships to save the council or leave them to die in order to kill the reaper faster. That is a perfect example of asset distribution and utilisation.

Now, on the surface. If you got all possible assets and the fleet is also sufficient and super elcor troop transports and all the rest you manage to get hammer down with over 90% integrity. Otherwise the massacre of the original setup ensues. Now, if this mission would be remade in the same way the suicide mission of ME2 was, it would simply be perfect. Like you managed to get assets, and you now get to assign them. All I see in the final ground battle are alliance soldiers and a few krogan and asari that get blasted by the reaper. Where are the elcor, drell, batarians, salarians and all the other cool special team war assets you can get on the way? They should show up in this final ground battle, and all of them help in one way or another. So, you get to choose which team goes for what, and the number of choices varies with the number of assets gathered. Example: the tanks need to get through the ruins but the close combat could get them killed, so you deploy the krogan or the geth primes you saved on Rannoch to clear that area first and so more tanks survive. Next, you have trouble targetting, but you need time to fix that. If you have both STG and krogan mercenaries you can deploy them to place explosives on the reaper’s path to slow it down and to destroy the reaper you can call in the normandy if you upgraded the weapons in ME2 or the Volus dreadnought if you found the asset around.

On the final push for the elevator, if you have enough fleet strenght, only Harbinger manages to break off from the battle and comes, otherwise you get all those reapers and take heavy cassualties. If only harbinger comes Shepard decides it needs to die and a boss battles ensues(seriously, both ME1 and ME2 had fun boss battles at the end, why not ME3, which is the FINAL of the ME series? It should have at least 10 bosses on the final level). So you use all the remaining troops, the normandy(if gun upgraded) and, if you got them, omega mercenaries + maybe some upgraded nuke launchers if there is such an asset to take down harbinger.

The citadel: if you got everything right you arrive on the citadel with a good bunch of troops, plus many of the characters that joined you on the ground, including Wrex. You now have to make choices(again like suicide mission) on who to send as a distraction so the main force can get to the council chamber, and who to use as backup. If you send in the salarians as a distraction they die fast and main force gets overwhelmed, whereas sending the krogan or the geth and keeping salarians/jack’s biotics in reserve will get the best possible outcome. Now, if you were fast enough and reinforced the citadel defence force (now CDF for convenience) previously along the way you meet with Bayley, who leads the remaining CDF and tells you what path to avoid. If he didn’t make it because CDF was too weak you take the most direct route and lose a lot of people, including some squad mates/friends. Now you get to the Council chamber/control room/whatever and the rest of the troops have to hold back some reaper forces so you are alone with your squad mates and maybe Anderson. Climactic moment when TIM shows up with some troops or something and you do battle or a long talk under the indoctrinating presence. The original convo at the current end of ME3 is pretty generic(aka like ME1) but no reason not to work. Now you open the citadel and the Crucible docks(if enough defense ships were present, otherwise big sad ending). Shepard discovers new button/elevator takes everyone to secret control room where some hologram/whatever tells them about the original creators of the reapers/citadel/mass relays and the reason why this is happening and again gives Shepard 2 or more choices that have massively different results. One of them would obviously be to destroy the reapers which is the reason many have been playing ME from the start. The other/s might be to reprogram the reapers to be slaves to organics and a 3rd one which is the mass extinction if the reason why reapers exist is good enough. Maybe the reapers have just a faulty programming code and are supposed to help organics evolve instead of killing them over and over again, that can be easily addapted to make a good ending. Now you get each squad member’s and Anderson’s opinion on the matter and make the decision.

If you choose destroy, the Crucible generates a mass overload on all reaper ships in the galaxy and everyone is saved. If you choose reprogram the reapers stop fighting and begin rebuilding the galaxy, but with a lot of controversy from everyone and a possibility of everything going wrong all over again.

If you didn’t have enough ground assets to get a full force on the Citadel the ‘Shepard getting wounded’ sequence happens(plus dead squad mates and all the other friends/normandy damaged) and you have to sneak on the citadel with Anderson, eventually meeting Bayley if CDF was strong enough or not, in which case Shepard gets critically wounded. Same TIM convo, except TIM kills Anderson and Shepard manages to kill him/make him kill himself and you get the choices again. Except after making the choice Shepard dies from blood loss unless you get the minimum asset of Bayley surviving.

If Shepard survives you get to see some victory celebration and witness the consequences of your actions. Ex: you saved Wrex and cured the genophage + the Krogan female lives = krogans become one of the council races and help rebuild the galaxy; wrex died at some point and Wreath rules+cured genophage+Krogan female died = krogans start waging war on the weakened races of the galaxy but if you saved rachni they help stop the krogan(Irony meant here). All the other possible outcomes can be easily imagined so I won’t get into that right now(ex: the geth reinforced the flank without quarians so they kind of got really decimated and so retreat behind the veil again). Suffice to say, giving players a lot of choices at the end just like in ME2 suicide mission would greatly enhance the ending.


Cheers

Modifié par Rane7685, 24 mars 2012 - 01:04 .

[macm1982]

I think the game is epic, but the endings are a big disappointment. My biggest issues with it are the incoherences. Why is my team members suddenly on the Normandy doing a jump (and how since they were doing combat in London)? Also the destruction of the mass relays means the end of the mass effect universe as we came to know, and the undoing of the achievements we did along the game. Also it is the end of space travel, meaning the end of mass effect from that point forward. These are my reasons for disliking the ending. I really hope Bioware listens to the fans and give us a better, more understandable ending.

[ElMuchu]

There is the problem of incoherences but most of all, for me there is also the problem of "why have we done so many things? What did we change?" Eidt: One member already said it but at the end, when you think about it: what do you earn by spending so many time to collect war assets? What do you win by having the Turians, the Krogans, the Geth and the Quarians helping you?

When I see these endings, for me, we have change nothing: during the all the 3 games, we lead a fight against reapers and then at the end, we have the impression of being wrong, that biological life is a mistake and so, that our actions are bad actions. I do not expect that and whereas I want to kick the ass of the starchild and Hartbinger, I have only 3 choices: fusion and dying, dying to give some time to other living beings, or destroy all synthetic lives.... God, Shepard has made so numerous huge fights and so many sacrifices for THAT.... I want to kick the ass of this child, I do not care about what he says. I am commander Shepard and I have evidence (refer to Geth and Quarians) that synthetic and biologic can live together.

Bioware, please, listen to us, we love this game, give it an epic ending like one of the biggest fight we have seen in movies.

Modifié par ElMuchu, 24 mars 2012 - 01:55 .

[Hospitallar]

Ilexias wrote...

 Hi Bioware,

So far I have been keeping relatively keeping quiet and just joining some polls and just chipping in a little. Want to start off to say this is one of the best games I have ever played , and if Casey's ultimate aim is to make a totally unforgettable game, you guys have nailed it. My favourite part in the game is actually the dialogues.

Mass Effect have come a long way from the rather deadpan conversations from ME1 to become the VOs that all dripping with such intense goody emotions. Such as the final goodbyes had literally gave me goosebumps. The few words that exchanged between my female Shepard and LI Kaidan is absolutely tear-jerking when he simply said, "I just can't lose you again."

Which leads to the next point. I believe I don't need to tell you how I feel about the ending. I worked in a game shop so I have a lot of aftermath discussions with all those customers that queue to buy this game on the first day it came out. The first thing they comment on is always the ending. They did not talk about the amazing smooth gameplay or the amazing dialogues in between missions. They think those are great but the main issue is still the ending. They felt betrayed and couldn't believe Bioware would just 'ruin the game' in the last 15 minutes.

For myself, I just find it really disappointing how 1 ending (I'm sorry, it's not even 3 or 16), can make all your customers to forget how amazing this game is. Those people did not join the retake movement, did not donate in Child's play or rapidly hunt the news for hope of a better ending. They were simply disgruntled customers who just waved it as 'bad customer service' and continue on. But given the record of DA2 and ME, they all gave me a resounding same message; they simple won't get any Bioware games off the first day. They will wait for more gamer reviews, 2nd hand copies and won't get extra limited edition stuff. They have bumped down Bioware's games on their must-get list.

One customer even said,"Bioware has slowly changed to be like SquareEnix. Too caught up in the heat and forgot the most important people in this industry. The main audience." It doesn't matter whether 76+ game critics said this is a good game, gamers nowadays are smart enough not to believe them and take those with a pinch of salt. What they really do read are the general consesus' opinion on the game, and as you know it, word of mouth. They will believe their friends more than a big shot in IGN. This is a potential marketing thing you simple cannot overlook.

I'm really happy to hear that you folks are making an effort and announcing that extra content is coming up. I think our message was clear as day, that the ending needs altering. But the next thing is change to what? I doubt there is a very clear consensus on what needs to be changed/altered/improved on. Personally, I feel regardless of whether you want to change the whole ending (indoctrination theory is a good way to force restart the ending) or keep it and explain it further, I'm fine. The main beef of my issue with the ending is it makes no sense.

Even if Shepard have to sacrifice herself, Mass Relays being destroyed in the process, I need an explanation on the Normandy, the crew and the aftermath of this galactic sacrifice on technology. Will the various races survive? How? Their CO just died, how can the crew be smiling? Even if the cutscene was to protray 'hope', we need immediate response on how they got to where they were in the first place and why would they abandon their CO. 

Part of me wish to have an option for a 'rainbows and ponies' ending too. It need not be canon, but given the amazing performance from Jennifer Hale, I really do hope my female Shepard can get a break and enjoy the fruits of her labour. She has given her all, beaten all the odds, united the Krogan and Turians, doing the impossible feat of slowly changing the 'racism' mindset of the Quarians with regards to the Geth... She really deserve a fitting ending with her LI and a martini or two.  And the few seconds breathing under the rubble simply doesn't cut it; it becomes an insult to the dialogues, to how you guys have managed to make all these characters so memorable.

If Bioware folks are reading, thanks for reading. Me and my husband still believe this is a big bad April Fool's joke and hope you guys are just trolls pulling our leg. After all, what better publicity than bad ones? But if you are not, okay, your forums are littered with plenty of ideas on how to do it. 

Wow, you have access to real customers and I find your report troubling. Unfortunately, I have to agree with your customers. With the way the ending, JUST THE ENDING, closes ME3, it does seem to sour the whole series. It's sad that the last ten minutes of the game has the power to do that, but it apparently happened. I figured this was worth reposting and I hope Bioware does figure out an adaquet way to address this issue. It can only really hurt them if they don't play their next card carefully. 

[Lord Irvine]

The whole game was awesome, until the end. What the hell happened? It's like I was suddenly playing a whole different game. You can't even continue the Mass Effect Series with any of the endings. Just straight up killed the whole universe(not literally). The endings actually made me feel, even if just for a little while, that I'd wasted weeks of my life playing the Mass Effect series just to see it end that way.

[PH03N1X 108]

I'm tired of the 'fans' who keep on about how it was Biowares choice etc. If you were a real fan of the trilogy, you would understand that after the amount of time and money (money not being so important) we invested into it, we are rightful to be upset at the ending, and ask them to change it.

[Beti88]

I just hope somebody will read my letter. It crossed the ocean, it deserves to be read:) It took me two days to fit my thoughts into two pages...

PS: Is there a successor to the PR Damage topic?

[zlandar]

Finished ME3 last night. Already aware of the ending controversy when I finished it. Ending was disappointing, especially compared to ME2 where the Collector base and ending where fantastic.

Ending reminded me of the movie "AI". The movie creates a plausible future reality which is ruined in the last 10 minutes by logic-shattering plot holes and twists.

[ElMuchu]

zlandar wrote...

Finished ME3 last night. Already aware of the ending controversy when I finished it. Ending was disappointing, especially compared to ME2 where the Collector base and ending where fantastic.

Ending reminded me of the movie "AI". The movie creates a plausible future reality which is ruined in the last 10 minutes by logic-shattering plot holes and twists.

That is the most disappointing for me: why changing a principle that works properly and about which everybody is satisfied with. The different endings of ME2 were the best I encountered in a game: one type (happy, middle, heroic) for each kind of player/customer.

[Martian Jim]

Well i just found out that that Bioware got the ending idea from a seventh grader in Germany, says it all really

[Fiannawolf]

Ok, thought about it more: What I need closure/expansion on:

Squadmates: What happened to them?

Love Interest: Did they get together after Reaper defeat? Or mourn Shep's death if no awakening from  Dream/Indoc.

Fleet: What happened? Destruction or Starvation?

Normandy: Hackett was aboard so Joker fleeing doesnt make sense and Hackett wouldnt allow it.

Final Run: How is it they end up on the Normandy anyway? NO sense to this whatsoever. Esp since all of them were all over London at the time. Did Harb get lazy and let Joker swoop in and leave with Shep's team...

Leaving Shep to die: None of Sheps teammates would do this at all. Over the radio no one notices shep get up? Thus ending sequence must be a crazy dream. Why were NPCs in dress blue uniforms too, Makes no sense. No HUD and unlimited bullets, armor and gun different.

Everything after the Beam: Was it indoctrination? A dream cause shep got hurt? Prelude to real final battle vs Harby. Have Shep wake up so we can really finish the fight, its sad when Halo 2 ended better then this series plus that was a cliffhanger.

Relays: Tricked Shep into seeing thier destruction by Harby or can they be rebuilt by Allied teams/science.

Status of Universe: Other homeworlds rebuilt or destroyed by reapers if Shep fails, at this point we only have that thing at the end saying buy DLC. Thats the only indicatior we have of "Destroying the Reapers".

Citidel: Is everyone dead? Was it worthless to even do quests for these NPCs if theres no indication that our war assests saved or hindered them.

Anderson and TIM: Where are they really? After beam hit it doesnt make sense that they'd get ahead or behind Shep at any point cause it was a strait shot to that console. If that was really TIM then why didnt he try to activate it himself while holding Anderson hostage.

Why collect all those fleets when the outcome is nearly identical??? If you take this ending as is atm then Shep killed more people in the end and did the Reapers jobs for them. Way to make me feel heroic. Esp as a paragon Shep.

Modifié par Fiannawolf, 24 mars 2012 - 02:26 .

[mulder1199]

I see that @masseffect twitter thing is saying no change in end, just adding content for clarity....

wow.... are really missing the point of the issues, bw?

[RSX Titan]

I must be in the minority but I fully expected the Relays and the Citidel to be destroyed. Ever since Shep's initial conversation with Sovereign, it became clear that the sentient species of the Galaxy had evolved along pre-defined paths and sets the stage for the whole free will vs enslavement angle. That being said, the unpolished nature and the absurd introduction of the star child left a bad taste in my mouth. After investing hundreds of hours into the series, I do not feel a sense of accomplishment at all which I would hope Isn't the reaction they were looking for.

I would also point out that while I do not harbor any personal ill will toward Walter ,the series took a drastic turn south after Drew moved onto SWTOR. I may not buy another game that he's the lead writer on. Just my two cents.

Modifié par RSX Titan, 24 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[Jayson619]

Would have preferred to see the Reapers die but everyone else, even geth survive.

Conduit, Shepard shouldn't get hit at all and will survive the rush with his squad. Fight with more Reaper troops only this time sent by Illusive Man inside the Catalyst who will be the final boss.

Then boom, happy ending. Shepard lives with his Romance partner.

Heard that if readiness not high enough , squadmates with me will be killed; WTF.

Modifié par Jayson619, 24 mars 2012 - 02:36 .

[SonvarTheMighty]

I really liked a majority of the game. I didn't want them to die but Mordin's death and Legions's death were handled very well I thought

The ending left me unsatisfied. It leaves too much unexplained. I don't mind the scene after the credits but I would have liked it more had the ending explained what was left. I'm even fine with there being an actual entity for the Catalyst but the reasoning we get isn't very good. To me the reasoning that we go through this cycle because we build synthetics only to have synthetics destroy us is not good logic.

[Jayson619]

Favourite moment?

Act 2 with Tali as Romance partner, making peace between Quarinans and geth. I played that several times.

Tuchunka is 2nd with Wrex and Eve surviving the genophage, and not submitting to Dalatress' plot.

[EnforcerWRX7]

Its not that we don't want them to have creative power. Its that the ending makes NO SENSE in the context of the game. This argument about who owns creativity is blown way out of proportion. Its obvious to ANYONE who played ME3 that the ending was tacked on at the last minute and its a jumbled mess of ideas to make sure DLC would be viable. Nothing makes sense in the ending. Its not about "ownership". Its about telling a story that makes sense to those watching it/reading it.

Its as if at the end of star wars, Luke had to throw himself down the shaft to save the universe but at the same time a big green light wiped out the Ewoks and Droids because he threw himself down shaft #3.

See? Its sounds absurdly stupid given the context of Star Wars that most of us are familiar with.

ME3 was largely "the hero's journey" and to give it anything but a proper ending is silly at best.

Modifié par EnforcerWRX7, 24 mars 2012 - 02:40 .

[fatality789]

I have a question about the indoctrination theory. First of all, to be clear, I personally think it's pure genius and if that's what happened - wow. That also means that something else must happen after that, right?

Anyway, my concern: The indoctrination theory claims that, in the final sequence, Anderson represents the "good" part of Shepard that is trying to liberate itself from indoctrination and the Illusive Man represents the "bad" part that welcomes indoctrination as something good and desirable. One could also say that they represent organic and synthetic parts of Shepard. And when Anderson gets shot, Shepard bleeds. Why doesn't he bleed when the Illusive Man gets shot, too? I know that synthetics don't actually bleed but Shepard must have felt something, especially if the Illusive Man shoots himself in the head.

[jeweledleah]

Rubicon83 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I beg to differ.  We DO want a happy ending. an option of one.  a Babilon 5 ending.  ME1 and ME2 type ending.

Uhm, Babylon 5 ended badly, seeing as how there was a keeper sealed away in that jar that was given to president Sheridan by Londo. You just knew then that, whatever happened, the ISA would be corrupted and taken over by the Drakh. And then came that whole "plague on the Earth" thing and it went even more badly.
Wouldn't exactly call that happy ^^

Just saying, i'd hate for Bioware to make an ending that made the universe even MORE screwed up.

oh I don't know, I thought en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_in_Light was perfect blend of bittersweet.  and it didn't seem like universe was worse off then it was before it, on the contrary.

and what DuncanID said.  that's why I'm annoyed at rainbows and unicorns accusations.  people are not asking for that, and even if relays are kept in tact - its pretty much impossible, you know with major planets in shambles, everyone losing at least one loved one..  I just felt that Shepridans end, was a lot more on his terms, predetermined as it was, and he managed to have almost 2 decades of happiness along the way, with a woman he loved.  that's pretty darn happy in my book.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 24 mars 2012 - 03:03 .

[Mastone]

Bioware DEVS please read......

Here's an alternative ( possibly better) ending:
You wake up after the horrible ending that it is now.
You"ll see dr Chakwash looking at you asking if you're alright, you give your answer then you ask what happended, she says:
You got blasted by a piece of rubble we just found you,
you then ask what happened, to which Chakwash replies:

Anderson was the only one left standing, took a bom with him and in the end sacrificed himself by blowing up the Citadel.
Since you don't sound surprised, Chakwash asks why you don't sound surprised, then you explain about a dream you had about the starchild and the whole aftermath of that.
Then Chakwash kinda chuckles mentioning something about that the blow might have damaged the brains more then she expected( humor is the best remedy and will make everyone forget about it, trust me), you then look up and see a reaper and you try to push chakwash to safety ( or if your renegade use here as shield), she replies, always the hero/always the soldier  right and then explains that the reapers aren't doing anything anymore they just kinda hoverwith a protective shield around them, only the husks are still moving about being out of control attacking each other and basically everything that moves.

She helps you get up explaining that basecamp isn't very far and that most of them are alright /most of them are dead/50-50 , which is based on what your choices were in the previous games .
you walk around the corner and chakwash get's blasted  by a rachni reaper thing ( forgot the name), based on your choice you either give her the last medigel you have or say that it's survival of the fittest and leave her.
then you ( or both of you) get to cover and a piece of gameplay starts where you stay in immediate danger mode ( with the red veins in the screen and the heart beating sound) when you saved Chakwash which makes it relative difficult to kill the husks and th erachni reaper thing ( chakwash isn't a very good shot) or when you picked the renegade mode you run through it with relative ease.
when you( both) get passed this little thing another cutscene happens where a harvester appears you think **** but then the cavalery arrives in the form of random teammates ( depends on choices in past games and this one as well, which one is alive) in the hammerhead or mako, they blow up the harvester, patch both of you up and take you to basecamp.
once there you find out that the illusive man is there, but he is dying and wants to speak to you urgently, you can go around basecamp where you can help people out  buy supplies, upgrades before you go to TIM, when you arrive there you find out that the final scenes of the horrible ending that it is now is partly true and that he is amazed that you know about the starchild, he thinks that you hav ethis knowledge because you have absorbed some prothean ability when you touched the beacon in ME1 ( Jarvik agrees if you have him/is sill alive and around) and when you got covered in rubble you got all these sensations which made you see what transpired on the citadel/crucible albeit in kind of a dream.
He explains that he was controlling the reapers to stop and that he saw anderson running at the other end with the bomb and blew himself up at that point the starchild disappears and TIM sees Harbinger , but not the Harbinger whe are used to, Harbinger is pleeding to help the reapers out of their enslavement and gives them coordinates to a hidden system with a mass relay which transports you to reaper space and a processing plant.
This is all done in a cgi cutscene with TIM as a voiceover.
TIM dies telling he's sorry for all the things he has done ( paragon) or saying he did it all for the greater good ( renegade).



You then  have the ability to do some shopping /help some people there before taking ( what's left of your) team to the Normandy and about to leave, then a cutscene starts when you are about to leave when the reapers start up again and assuming control of husks and the likes again and start attacking the basecamp ( which is the last remnant of humanity), now depending on your choices the following happens:
-If you didn't help everyone ( meaning saved the Rachni queen, reuniting the geth/quarians, curing the genophage) they don't stand a chance and most of them will die, you turn away ans say something  like let's make them count
- if you did  help everyone , the rachni arrive as well as the krogan lead by Wrex , the remnant of the asari, jack with here biotics squad and the geth and quarians yelling at you that they"ll manage you smile at them , they smile back and you leave
-if you did 50-50 ,played grey then the allies that arrive will shout that you can't do anything here and that you just leave and do your thing, you scream back that you"ll be back to come to help and you leave.

then a flying cutscene happens  where you are chased by Harbinger  and a lot of reapers leaving earth alone where several things happen where the outcome differs depending on your previous choices.
basically if you played paragon EDI hacks several reapers causing some of them to die, if you play renegade EDI is taken over by Harbinger and either you shoot her ( renegade interupt) or Joker does .
Depending if you had everyones allegience and had all the ship upgrades you hit the final relay either with a fully functional ship or  a damaged one.

Once you enter the system  a cutscene starts where scanners indicate activity on one of the planets, where you either land the normandy in a clearing or crash there.
If you crash then one of the following happens:
- If EDI survived in the previous happening she convinces joker to leave the ship
-if EDI died Joker explains that he can't leave since a remnant of EDI is still alive and that he loves her

If the Normandy just lands Joker says that he and EDI will pick you up and that you just ahve to shout, like you usually do when you need something from him.....

You leave the ship with your team ( all of them not just 3) and approach a big facility which appears to be a reaper birthpllace, the surroundings are like the overlord DLC from ME2, a lush planet where there is plenty of wildlife almost idylic .
Once there, it becomes clear that there are a couple of objectives one is the main objective and there is choice of two  others  which is helping Asari from being processed or getting valuable reaper technology, it now depends on how much of your team is still alive and if you spoke to them regularly /shown interest  if you are able to do the sidequests and if all of them survive ( this isn't dependent on qualities of the individuals they are all battle hardened) if you choose the reaper tech option  and Liara is your LI she breaks with you and goes to the asari alone, you"ll never hear from her again.
If you haven't talked to Jarvik regularly  and you pick save the asari he will break with you because of your stupid decisions and lack of leadership, depending on how much you spoke with the rest they will leave with him or stay.

If only 2 other squad members are alive  you can only do the main objective, where you finally encounter someone who is overseeing the reaper proces, which is the one who didn't survive Virmire (nonVS) you fight him/her and when you beat the nonVS and he/she is dying ( for the 2nd time) he/she explains that the reapers are being controlled by organics she doesn't know who, but does know how to get where they are. when the nonVS dies depending of the things you said in ME1 and your alignment is very personal( "it was an honor to have known you  commander") or distant( "I just did my duty") you then approach a console retrieve the data and then hail Joker or if he died you run to a shuttle which is somewhere outside

Joker replies sayin something funny  and EDI corecting him, but also says we didn't call to soon and that he is already waiting outside on the platform either in the Normandy ( if it was intact) or in the shuttle, because our friend Harbinger has arrived and is blasting the facilty, you leave with cloaking tech of the shuttle or normandy.
If you still hav eJoker you get past without a scratch if he died you get blasted and barely make it to the coordinates.

Once you are there  and land on the planet( have not thought about design, but I am thinking a planet which appears to have artifacts and architecture of all the cycles combined in a sort of a mix which has to feel alien and familiar alike..good luck level designers ) once you land a hologram pops up which shows a prothean who explains that special forces of the prothean once found out about this place and that it was controlled by another race which we haven't heard about who had  created the reapers and had a conflict similar like the geth and Quarians, only this race wasn't going for the peace option and attacked them, the syntetics which the reapers are only defended themselves so it was a bit of tie, the galaxy back then however wasn't that peace ful and was in constant conflict and when other races realised the position of the elder race was weakened by the war with their syntetics they attacked , being desperate th eelder race deviced a way to control the reapers but instead of only holding back their organic aggresor the elder race opted to destroy all organic live which they viewed as a threat.
Once this was done they created the citadel to monitor development of the galaxy and once it developed in something which the elder race perceived a threat they wiped out all organic life again and use genetic material from that to strengthen themselves, because only a few of the elder race survived the initial onslaught they didn't have a large enough gene pool to sustain evolution.
When the remnant of the protheans arrived the elder race enslaved them, but underestimated them and finally the Protheans overcame the elder race and wiped them out for good, in the end they opted to continu the cycle since they were not exactly fluffy bunnies and several hundreds of years had past and their own society had been destroyed ( time is different on the elder planet, moves slower).
this is all shown in a nice CGI cutscene.
When the cutscene ends  the prothean offers you a choice as well:
- Join them as their slaves ( crew lives but current cycle get's wiped out )
- Fight them

when you choose to fight , which I assume everyone will do a final end battle starts where your entire crew fights with you  against the protheans if you saved the reaper technology you can use their own defenses against them if you choose to save the asari they will use biotics to destroy their defenses.
once you beat them you can approach a console where a VI appears in the shape of one ofthe elder race which resembles  a grey old version of you( not to similar just recogniseable) but still of a different race which resembles a human) he presents you with choices:
-Destroy the elder planet  and rid the galaxy of the cycle, leaving the future open.Reapers leave organic space
-Assume control of the facility  and continu the cycle killing everyone Reapers are under your control now.

Then depening on all the choices you have made you get  a different endsequence...
-you not coming back but sitting on a throne like position  where you the last thing you here yourself say : assuming conrol
- you die in the explosion of the elder planet because the normandy didn't survive the onslaught, but you see either everyone surviving in a cutscene and a celebrating galaxy or you see a heavily damaged galaxy but stil standing and rebuilding grimly everyone leaves each other  the council is disbanded and the galactic society disolves.
Everything is based on your choices
- a little cutscene of the last moments of the battle that started on earth when you left  and a  cutscene of your life ending in your burial with your friends varying in age( some races age more quickly)
and you have a child which is named afer the character that didn't survive Virmire which is revealed when the mother/father says that they need to leave.

This is just something I whipped up in a couple of hours so it could use some refinement, but it's already better than the ending as it is now, you are also free to use it all or just segments of it but please fix the damn ending

Modifié par Mastone, 24 mars 2012 - 03:11 .