23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Dawson14]

So I signed up just to voice my displeasure and opinion just on the ending. I've had some time to think about it and I'm glad I had to wait 24 hours to post since if I didn't, I would have had one heck of a rage post going on. Here is what I thought about the ending. 99.9% of this has been covered in the 407 pages that I read (yes It took me a while), but I feel like I need to say my peice as well. I'll try to stray from writing a novel and keep it to bullet points.

So Here we go Bioware

1.) The endings were virtually the same no matter what you did in ALL THREE GAMES. Just different colored explosions. Why did I just spend hundreds of hours doing the right thing and going back and making good decisions when in the end it didn't matter?


2.) The only way to get Shepard to live was to Genocide the Geth and kill EDI. (This is a major flaw in the Indoctrination theory as well. The right was red because the right caused millions of Geth and EDI to die. The left was blue because you saved everyone but sacrificed yourself which is the paragon choice) Now I could live with this if there was no starchild, and it didn't turn into a convoluted mess at the end. Basically, I would be fine if you throw all that out the window and you have to pick A.) Sacrifice yourself to save everyone, the mass relays, and the galatic community stays intact or B.) You live, but at the expense of the Geth and EDI and you can go back to see your crew. Now that would be a really hard choice to make. I don't think I could have brought myself to kill EDI and the Geth, I would have probably sacrificed myself. But Im sure I'd sit there for a good 5-10 mins pondering what I wanted to do.

3.)Nothing I did in Mass Effect 3 mattered. No matter who I united, who I saved, how good my relationships were, etc ABSOLUTELY NOTHING mattered. Why did I make sure to talk to EVERYONE after each mission to make sure I didn't miss out their perks and relationships? Why did I spend all that time building these fantastic relationships like in ME1/2 (in which they did matter) for nothing. Wasn't ME all about this? The relationships you built throughout this franchise? It's the reason I loved 99.9% of the gameplay. It's the reason why I could not put it down and I paid for DLC blindly and played multiple times throuigh. I loved the relationships, the jokes, friend cut scenes. 

4.)This builds from three. Why throw all of that away, not show what happens to any of my crew at the end even if we say the ending was good? How could you think we wouldn't want some sort of closure? So what do you do? You make a scene where Joker and the Normandy are running away and crash land on a lush planet where somehow my squadmates from the final mission magically get onto the Normandy and didn't get totally annihilated like me by Harbingers beam? This can ONLY be some quickly thrown together ploy to seel future DLC which is a huge insult just like the opening DLC (which I bought)

5.) War assets were just an arbitrary number. I united an entire galaxy for a final battle and I got to see mostly alliance ships, some Turian/Asari ships in a 60 cut scene which was extremely subpar. Are you kidding me? I almost laughed at the end when I realized there wasn't going to be an epic battle with the forces I just spent 50 hours uniting. Where were the Geth, Batarians, Volus, Elcor, Varren, Omega Mercenaries, STG Salarians, Ex Cerebus? Where were they in the Hammer forces on the ground? I just can't fathom why they were left out when they were being pushed as an extremely important to unite IN THE MAIN STORY.

6.) The final boss I get was Marauder Shields? Don't get me wrong, I love him with all my heart. He tried to save me from the ending, but at least let me fight harbinger or control the massive galaxy fleet I put together? How could you not have any variables or cut scenes based on the fleet in a final boss fight. Huge swing and miss there.

7.)You introduce a massive main character in the last five minutes where I can't choose to question him and he creates 100 more questions and answers none of the 100 from the previous 99% of the game. Plus, his logic for the Reapers is to save us from eventually wiping ourselves out with synthetics. So what does the starchild do? He creates synthetics to kill us so that the synthetics we create don't kill us? Really Bioware? That's what you went with to end this epic story? Hahahahahahaha. I just can't believe it. There is just no possible way that anyone from Bioware could think that was a fantastic way to end the game. 

8.) The entire franchise had tons of despair, depression, heartache, loss, defeat,with triumph at the end of 1 and 2. So why have an ending in 3 three that did not do the same? All we got was more loss, defeat, despair when we watched everything we grew to love explode before our eyes. The Citadel, the mass relays, the galactic community gone in seconds. Why do that? Do you think I'm going to put the game back in to do another play through or play 1-3 again when I know the ending is just depressing? No. I'm not. I won't touch this game again, nor the others and I surely wont be buying any DLC. And that really upsets me because I loved 99.9% of the game. I want to play again, I want to relive the Mass Effect story, I want to carry on with more DLC, but I won't do it because the ending ruined it. I don't play video games to leave me feeling defeated and depressed at the end. I play them because I know all that hardwork will pay off in the end and you feel awesome to the point where you stand up at 1 and 2 and say "F#$% Yea! THAT WAS AWESOME!". The ending of 3, I just sat there watching credits roll by with a feeling of "WTF just happened?", turned it off and went to bed.

 We were all extremely emotionally attached to this game. We lived the story. It didn't have to be complicated. There didn't need to be some confusing godlike AI. The story was already incredible. No reason to throw that curveball in the mix with no answers. I wanted a massive battle cutscene with my Armada with the Reapers, I wanted to get up again at the end having defeated Harbinger, activating the crucible, and watching the Reapers burn and saying "F#$% Yea! THAT WAS AWESOME!"  again.  I wanted to go back to my crew, greet them all again (if you had high enough War Assets), get to talk with them about the fight, what they want to do now that it is over, talk about rebuilding and starting a new, and know that the galactic community that I grew to love is still there. Heck! That would still leave openings for ME4 or more DLC that we all want and I'm sure you want to sell!!! 

Ultimately, I wish the indoctrination theory was true, but it's not. I think you rushed the end. I think EA got their grubby little hands in the mix to ruin the end and try to sell tons of DLC, but it backfired. Maybe not though because any new ending DLC you put out we are going to have to pay for which is pathetic. You'll sell it though. Oh boy will you sell it. I really do think EA execs ruined this game. They did something because you (bioware) do such great jobs at story telling to have this travesty of an ending.

I'll say it again like thousands of others. I loved this franchise. I loved the story. I loved the inside jokes walking past people. I loved the friends and companionship we could create. I loved everything about all three games except the last 10-15 minutes.You guys did such an amazing and incredible job with 99% of the game to let this be the end.
Please make it right.

Thanks for listening:)


EDIT: I claim Page 408 for Marauder Shields

Modifié par Dawson14, 24 mars 2012 - 03:17 .

[Lord Irvine]

Martian Jim wrote...

Well i just found out that that Bioware got the ending idea from a seventh grader in Germany, says it all really

That 7th grader wouldn't happen to look like that child in the beginning and the 'Catalyst', would he?

[NatPro38]

On a note of what ending I want; I want a happy ending where everything works out fine, the Indoctrination Theory would fit.

[Ice Cold J]

Lord Irvine wrote...

Martian Jim wrote...

Well i just found out that that Bioware got the ending idea from a seventh grader in Germany, says it all really

That 7th grader wouldn't happen to look like that child in the beginning and the 'Catalyst', would he?

Augustus Gloop?

[Klementh]

Absolutely best and creative ending! The need to "jump" into a new evolutionary change, in order to evade a complete and inevitable self-annihilation of the mankind as we know it (the Reapers were trying just to postpone it), is awesome!
It is a peace of art.
Thank you BioWare!

[Motherlander]

I have just finished the ending for the first time today. I have commented on the endings before because I decided to read and watch how it ended before getting there. To be frank, I am glad I did because the endings are as bad as most people are saying.

The main issues were the plot holes (which have been previously discussed in detail), the lack of closure and the lack of an epoligue explaining what happened. It was as if Bioware said: "F**kit. Make it up yourselves".

It occurs to me that the Sythesis ending seemed to be potrayed as the most ideal. Yet, I had a problem with it because 1) It felt like selling out and 2) I have no idea how it works or what the consequences are. The only thing I liked about the Synthesis ending was the way Shepard angel dived into the stream. And even that suggested that was supposed to be the "optimal" ending because it was arguably the most spectacular ending, even though it wasn't ideal to many people including myself. However, I think it is a reasonable option tohave as I am sure it will appeal to some people.

The control ending was actually OK. I don't have a problem with it.

For me the destroy ending was the most satisfying to watch. To see the Reapers blow up and then see a couple of the soldiers raise their guns in victory did give me a little satisfaction in an otherwise underwhelming experince.

However, I did not like that the Geth needed to be included. So broadly speaking for me to feel more satisfied with the ending I would want the three following changes in order of priority:

1) Cover the plot holes and give more closure on what happened to the galaxy, Earth, Shepard and his/her squad mates, especially conentrating LI's.

2) Change the destroy option so that only the Reapers are included in the destroy order and other synthetics are excluded.

3) Have possibilities of happy endings where Shepard can reunite with his/her LI and have an ending where the relays are not destroyed. Also, the happies ending should be available in SP.

In conclusion. without at least an epilogue and an amended destroy ending, I doubt I will be buying more DLC or playing it much again.

I wouldn't say I feel angry. To be honest, i just feel indifferent. And that is very sad.

Like many, I have been looking forward to ME3 for some time, because I expected to see the suitably heroic and epic ending that Shepard deserved. But instead it was all very flat and nonsensical.

Modifié par Motherlander, 24 mars 2012 - 04:18 .

[Dawson14]

Klementh wrote...

Absolutely best and creative ending! The need to "jump" into a new evolutionary change, in order to evade a complete and inevitable self-annihilation of the mankind as we know it (the Reapers were trying just to postpone it), is awesome!
It is a peace of art.
Thank you BioWare!

Right...because everything we did in the game to prove against this so called inevitable self-annihilation was for nothing. So you though a one sentence explaination for what COULD happen from a recently introduced AI child as an awesome ending? Wow.

[NormanRawn]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10560899

a valid point, if you choose to listen

[calabazada]

Dawson14 wrote...



So I signed up just to voice my displeasure and opinion just on the ending. I've had some time to think about it and I'm glad I had to wait 24 hours to post since if I didn't, I would have had one heck of a rage post going on. Here is what I thought about the ending. 99.9% of this has been covered in the 407 pages that I read (yes It took me a while), but I feel like I need to say my peice as well. I'll try to stray from writing a novel and keep it to bullet points.

So Here we go Bioware

1.) The endings were virtually the same no matter what you did in ALL THREE GAMES. Just different colored explosions. Why did I just spend hundreds of hours doing the right thing and going back and making good decisions when in the end it didn't matter?


2.) The only way to get Shepard to live was to Genocide the Geth and kill EDI. (This is a major flaw in the Indoctrination theory as well. The right was red because the right caused millions of Geth and EDI to die. The left was blue because you saved everyone but sacrificed yourself which is the paragon choice) Now I could live with this if there was no starchild, and it didn't turn into a convoluted mess at the end. Basically, I would be fine if you throw all that out the window and you have to pick A.) Sacrifice yourself to save everyone, the mass relays, and the galatic community stays intact or B.) You live, but at the expense of the Geth and EDI and you can go back to see your crew. Now that would be a really hard choice to make. I don't think I could have brought myself to kill EDI and the Geth, I would have probably sacrificed myself. But Im sure I'd sit there for a good 5-10 mins pondering what I wanted to do.

3.)Nothing I did in Mass Effect 3 mattered. No matter who I united, who I saved, how good my relationships were, etc ABSOLUTELY NOTHING mattered. Why did I make sure to talk to EVERYONE after each mission to make sure I didn't miss out their perks and relationships? Why did I spend all that time building these fantastic relationships like in ME1/2 (in which they did matter) for nothing. Wasn't ME all about this? The relationships you built throughout this franchise? It's the reason I loved 99.9% of the gameplay. It's the reason why I could not put it down and I paid for DLC blindly and played multiple times throuigh. I loved the relationships, the jokes, friend cut scenes. 

4.)This builds from three. Why throw all of that away, not show what happens to any of my crew at the end even if we say the ending was good? How could you think we wouldn't want some sort of closure? So what do you do? You make a scene where Joker and the Normandy are running away and crash land on a lush planet where somehow my squadmates from the final mission magically get onto the Normandy and didn't get totally annihilated like me by Harbingers beam? This can ONLY be some quickly thrown together ploy to seel future DLC which is a huge insult just like the opening DLC (which I bought)

5.) War assets were just an arbitrary number. I united an entire galaxy for a final battle and I got to see mostly alliance ships, some Turian/Asari ships in a 60 cut scene which was extremely subpar. Are you kidding me? I almost laughed at the end when I realized there wasn't going to be an epic battle with the forces I just spent 50 hours uniting. Where were the Geth, Batarians, Volus, Elcor, Varren, Omega Mercenaries, STG Salarians, Ex Cerebus? Where were they in the Hammer forces on the ground? I just can't fathom why they were left out when they were being pushed as an extremely important to unite IN THE MAIN STORY.

6.) The final boss I get was Marauder Shields? Don't get me wrong, I love him with all my heart. He tried to save me from the ending, but at least let me fight harbinger or control the massive galaxy fleet I put together? How could you not have any variables or cut scenes based on the fleet in a final boss fight. Huge swing and miss there.

7.)You introduce a massive main character in the last five minutes where I can't choose to question him and he creates 100 more questions and answers none of the 100 from the previous 99% of the game. Plus, his logic for the Reapers is to save us from eventually wiping ourselves out with synthetics. So what does the starchild do? He creates synthetics to kill us so that the synthetics we create don't kill us? Really Bioware? That's what you went with to end this epic story? Hahahahahahaha. I just can't believe it. There is just no possible way that anyone from Bioware could think that was a fantastic way to end the game. 

8.) The entire franchise had tons of despair, depression, heartache, loss, defeat,with triumph at the end of 1 and 2. So why have an ending in 3 three that did not do the same? All we got was more loss, defeat, despair when we watched everything we grew to love explode before our eyes. The Citadel, the mass relays, the galactic community gone in seconds. Why do that? Do you think I'm going to put the game back in to do another play through or play 1-3 again when I know the ending is just depressing? No. I'm not. I won't touch this game again, nor the others and I surely wont be buying any DLC. And that really upsets me because I loved 99.9% of the game. I want to play again, I want to relive the Mass Effect story, I want to carry on with more DLC, but I won't do it because the ending ruined it. I don't play video games to leave me feeling defeated and depressed at the end. I play them because I know all that hardwork will pay off in the end and you feel awesome to the point where you stand up at 1 and 2 and say "F#$% Yea! THAT WAS AWESOME!". The ending of 3, I just sat there watching credits roll by with a feeling of "WTF just happened?", turned it off and went to bed.

 We were all extremely emotionally attached to this game. We lived the story. It didn't have to be complicated. There didn't need to be some confusing godlike AI. The story was already incredible. No reason to throw that curveball in the mix with no answers. I wanted a massive battle cutscene with my Armada with the Reapers, I wanted to get up again at the end having defeated Harbinger, activating the crucible, and watching the Reapers burn and saying "F#$% Yea! THAT WAS AWESOME!"  again.  I wanted to go back to my crew, greet them all again (if you had high enough War Assets), get to talk with them about the fight, what they want to do now that it is over, talk about rebuilding and starting a new, and know that the galactic community that I grew to love is still there. Heck! That would still leave openings for ME4 or more DLC that we all want and I'm sure you want to sell!!! 

Ultimately, I wish the indoctrination theory was true, but it's not. I think you rushed the end. I think EA got their grubby little hands in the mix to ruin the end and try to sell tons of DLC, but it backfired. Maybe not though because any new ending DLC you put out we are going to have to pay for which is pathetic. You'll sell it though. Oh boy will you sell it. I really do think EA execs ruined this game. They did something because you (bioware) do such great jobs at story telling to have this travesty of an ending.

I'll say it again like thousands of others. I loved this franchise. I loved the story. I loved the inside jokes walking past people. I loved the friends and companionship we could create. I loved everything about all three games except the last 10-15 minutes.You guys did such an amazing and incredible job with 99% of the game to let this be the end.
Please make it right.

Thanks for listening:)


EDIT: I claim Page 408 for Marauder Shields

couldn't have said it better myself.  where are my choices?  where is my big bad throwdown with harbinger?  where is the 1 option for a happy ending where i take everyone up on their offers to buy me drinks?!?!

[Pendragonx315]

Dawson14 wrote...



So I signed up just to voice my displeasure and opinion just on the ending. I've had some time to think about it and I'm glad I had to wait 24 hours to post since if I didn't, I would have had one heck of a rage post going on. Here is what I thought about the ending. 99.9% of this has been covered in the 407 pages that I read (yes It took me a while), but I feel like I need to say my peice as well. I'll try to stray from writing a novel and keep it to bullet points.

So Here we go Bioware

[snipped]

Thanks for listening:)


EDIT: I claim Page 408 for Marauder Shields

^^^^^^^^THIS!!!!! ... Very well said, sir! I couldn't high-five you more! ... I wonder if I can print this out and bring it to Bioware's panel at PAX next month

[Berehir]

The article linked to a few pages back by the writer on word press nailed my thoughts exactly:

"So here’s what I think happened. I think the writing team at Bioware originally had the indoctrination theory in mind, and the game designers were diligently creating all the subtle clues, preparing to pull of the most brilliant narrative effect in recent memory. Then they hit the wall…the wall of a looming deadline and rapidly shrinking money pile. Mass Effect 3 had already been delayed by three months, and properly incorporating the Indoctrination Theory into the game would have resulted in another delay. So someone without a shred of artistic integrity saw the ending sequence of the indoctrination and said “why not just make this the ending?” so they whipped up a half-baked closing cinematic, slapped it on the end and called it a day.
Further evidence that this decision was not made by the writers, is that none of them have come forth to defend the ending. Not a single solitary member of the Mass Effect 3 team has stepped forward to try and at least explain what the ending was about, plug the insanely huge plot holes left, or even apologize for so royally screwing up."

BOLDING Mine for emphasis.

Then again, I think that the writers have been told to STFU by corporate, so the last paragraph is somewhat moot.  It's all speculation really, we won't know anything for sure until  the "new content" is formally announced.  I sure would love to be a fly on  the wall during  the post mortem of this, however.  THAT would be really entertaining.

Modifié par Berehir, 24 mars 2012 - 03:41 .

[NormanRawn]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10557849

[NormanRawn]

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10557005

[Lord Irvine]

calabazada wrote...

Dawson14 wrote...



So I signed up just to voice my displeasure and opinion just on the ending. I've had some time to think about it and I'm glad I had to wait 24 hours to post since if I didn't, I would have had one heck of a rage post going on. Here is what I thought about the ending. 99.9% of this has been covered in the 407 pages that I read (yes It took me a while), but I feel like I need to say my peice as well. I'll try to stray from writing a novel and keep it to bullet points.

So Here we go Bioware

1.) The endings were virtually the same no matter what you did in ALL THREE GAMES. Just different colored explosions. Why did I just spend hundreds of hours doing the right thing and going back and making good decisions when in the end it didn't matter?


2.) The only way to get Shepard to live was to Genocide the Geth and kill EDI. (This is a major flaw in the Indoctrination theory as well. The right was red because the right caused millions of Geth and EDI to die. The left was blue because you saved everyone but sacrificed yourself which is the paragon choice) Now I could live with this if there was no starchild, and it didn't turn into a convoluted mess at the end. Basically, I would be fine if you throw all that out the window and you have to pick A.) Sacrifice yourself to save everyone, the mass relays, and the galatic community stays intact or B.) You live, but at the expense of the Geth and EDI and you can go back to see your crew. Now that would be a really hard choice to make. I don't think I could have brought myself to kill EDI and the Geth, I would have probably sacrificed myself. But Im sure I'd sit there for a good 5-10 mins pondering what I wanted to do.

3.)Nothing I did in Mass Effect 3 mattered. No matter who I united, who I saved, how good my relationships were, etc ABSOLUTELY NOTHING mattered. Why did I make sure to talk to EVERYONE after each mission to make sure I didn't miss out their perks and relationships? Why did I spend all that time building these fantastic relationships like in ME1/2 (in which they did matter) for nothing. Wasn't ME all about this? The relationships you built throughout this franchise? It's the reason I loved 99.9% of the gameplay. It's the reason why I could not put it down and I paid for DLC blindly and played multiple times throuigh. I loved the relationships, the jokes, friend cut scenes. 

4.)This builds from three. Why throw all of that away, not show what happens to any of my crew at the end even if we say the ending was good? How could you think we wouldn't want some sort of closure? So what do you do? You make a scene where Joker and the Normandy are running away and crash land on a lush planet where somehow my squadmates from the final mission magically get onto the Normandy and didn't get totally annihilated like me by Harbingers beam? This can ONLY be some quickly thrown together ploy to seel future DLC which is a huge insult just like the opening DLC (which I bought)

5.) War assets were just an arbitrary number. I united an entire galaxy for a final battle and I got to see mostly alliance ships, some Turian/Asari ships in a 60 cut scene which was extremely subpar. Are you kidding me? I almost laughed at the end when I realized there wasn't going to be an epic battle with the forces I just spent 50 hours uniting. Where were the Geth, Batarians, Volus, Elcor, Varren, Omega Mercenaries, STG Salarians, Ex Cerebus? Where were they in the Hammer forces on the ground? I just can't fathom why they were left out when they were being pushed as an extremely important to unite IN THE MAIN STORY.

6.) The final boss I get was Marauder Shields? Don't get me wrong, I love him with all my heart. He tried to save me from the ending, but at least let me fight harbinger or control the massive galaxy fleet I put together? How could you not have any variables or cut scenes based on the fleet in a final boss fight. Huge swing and miss there.

7.)You introduce a massive main character in the last five minutes where I can't choose to question him and he creates 100 more questions and answers none of the 100 from the previous 99% of the game. Plus, his logic for the Reapers is to save us from eventually wiping ourselves out with synthetics. So what does the starchild do? He creates synthetics to kill us so that the synthetics we create don't kill us? Really Bioware? That's what you went with to end this epic story? Hahahahahahaha. I just can't believe it. There is just no possible way that anyone from Bioware could think that was a fantastic way to end the game. 

8.) The entire franchise had tons of despair, depression, heartache, loss, defeat,with triumph at the end of 1 and 2. So why have an ending in 3 three that did not do the same? All we got was more loss, defeat, despair when we watched everything we grew to love explode before our eyes. The Citadel, the mass relays, the galactic community gone in seconds. Why do that? Do you think I'm going to put the game back in to do another play through or play 1-3 again when I know the ending is just depressing? No. I'm not. I won't touch this game again, nor the others and I surely wont be buying any DLC. And that really upsets me because I loved 99.9% of the game. I want to play again, I want to relive the Mass Effect story, I want to carry on with more DLC, but I won't do it because the ending ruined it. I don't play video games to leave me feeling defeated and depressed at the end. I play them because I know all that hardwork will pay off in the end and you feel awesome to the point where you stand up at 1 and 2 and say "F#$% Yea! THAT WAS AWESOME!". The ending of 3, I just sat there watching credits roll by with a feeling of "WTF just happened?", turned it off and went to bed.

 We were all extremely emotionally attached to this game. We lived the story. It didn't have to be complicated. There didn't need to be some confusing godlike AI. The story was already incredible. No reason to throw that curveball in the mix with no answers. I wanted a massive battle cutscene with my Armada with the Reapers, I wanted to get up again at the end having defeated Harbinger, activating the crucible, and watching the Reapers burn and saying "F#$% Yea! THAT WAS AWESOME!"  again.  I wanted to go back to my crew, greet them all again (if you had high enough War Assets), get to talk with them about the fight, what they want to do now that it is over, talk about rebuilding and starting a new, and know that the galactic community that I grew to love is still there. Heck! That would still leave openings for ME4 or more DLC that we all want and I'm sure you want to sell!!! 

Ultimately, I wish the indoctrination theory was true, but it's not. I think you rushed the end. I think EA got their grubby little hands in the mix to ruin the end and try to sell tons of DLC, but it backfired. Maybe not though because any new ending DLC you put out we are going to have to pay for which is pathetic. You'll sell it though. Oh boy will you sell it. I really do think EA execs ruined this game. They did something because you (bioware) do such great jobs at story telling to have this travesty of an ending.

I'll say it again like thousands of others. I loved this franchise. I loved the story. I loved the inside jokes walking past people. I loved the friends and companionship we could create. I loved everything about all three games except the last 10-15 minutes.You guys did such an amazing and incredible job with 99% of the game to let this be the end.
Please make it right.

Thanks for listening:)


EDIT: I claim Page 408 for Marauder Shields

couldn't have said it better myself.  where are my choices?  where is my big bad throwdown with harbinger?  where is the 1 option for a happy ending where i take everyone up on their offers to buy me drinks?!?!

True dat. I've got over a dozen people offering to buy drinks. A few of them can't even drink the same drinks Shepard can(damn DNA). Where's my happy ending? Where's my Galactic Celebration?!

[Tesar]

Based on current ending:
Shepard ran to transport beam and was stunned by explosion from Harbinger beam. He dies in all endings except destruction with high EMS but when he goes through his dream Harbinger can't do a thing and one man (not a party member) is able to go through transport beam, open arms of the citadel etc. The story of this man starts from the moment of Cerberus base attack and goes in parallel with Shepard (but with different quests maybe) and he will finish the fight with Reapers and will be a character for Mass Effect 4.
I suggest that something on Citadel is a reason for reapers to harvest, so this man destroys the reason, which confuses the reapers the same way as Saren's death lowers the barrier of Sovereign. United fleet kills most of the reapers, but some of them will be able to escape in unknown direction. They would be a vital part of ME4, so next trilogy would be a finding an answer to final question: who builds reapers and for which purpose (I mean real purpose). And this unknown man would be a key to this answer and main protagonist.

Our choices woud affect the future trilogy, Shepard is a hero who fights Harbinger and through indoctrination weakens reapers so fleet was able to eliminate the threat. And unknown man will be unknown for a little more time since he is neither from alliance, nor from cerberus (unknown Cerberus cell is fine too, TIM has established it as a safety mesure of his plans and then deleted all records to be unable to monitor or contact them in case he lost his mind).

In ME4 galaxy is recovering from reaper attack, military is cleaning planets from husks and reaper indoctrination devices and actively seeking reapers because their existance is the reason for husks to appear and live. But only unknown man would know the reason why reapers was defeated (not because Shepard weakened them while he was indoctrinated as the rest of the galaxy thinks) and try to find the legacy of reaper masters.

Modifié par Tesar, 24 mars 2012 - 04:04 .

[nitefyre410]

 Here is my Idea for a possible  end game show down with  Harbinger and the Catalyst

A boss battle would have been great and battle mirror  after the Battle with Saren at  end of ME 1.  Part 1 would be a puzzle like Battle with Harbinger using the all the war assest you aquired.   Once  Harbinger is wounded badly, the Normandy comes and picks the crew up and they head for the Citadel, some random battles with suped up verison of regular enemies. TIM shows up, convo with time,  TIM gets wounded, convo with  the Catalyst... Shepard rejects the Catalyst logic with epic  "World of  cardboard Speech."     A wounded Harbinger  poscoess  TIM's Body , Part 2 of the fight  begins.   That battle ends-  Shepard and the party a exhuausted  but  are still standing .  The Catalyst startes sending wave and wave enemies but the parrty keeps  fighting.   Then the Normandy shows up with there other characters from other games,  Jack, Miranda, Samara, Ashley/Kaiden, James, all of them the join the fight.  This is when Loyality and EMS comes into play... the higher  the better chance for survival. If you were able to  sway  TIM ... his dying words would ...

'They will never stop fighting,  even if you kill them, there will be others and more.. They know that, Shepard knows that's, s/he is not fighting for just there own survivial but the future, a future willing to die for..  I sold my soul, just to get  this far... we'll ...never ..stop."    The Catalyst stops the onslaught,  depending on EMS depends on how many people are alive  or dead.   The  Catalyst then offeres its solutions but with a High enough EMS and most of the cast alive.  Shepard can reject and point outside... to show that they are not only holding their own but turning the tide.   Then The Catalyst  for the first time in eons pauses and thinks... and ask why?    Now for dialogue with  choices high enough EMS and influence you can explain to  the  Catalyst why its wrong and it will see that its solution is the cause of the problem convince it to leave or finish the fight and destroy it.   

Just a thoought on how it should go down. 

[nazgul1x]

Berehir wrote...

The article linked to a few pages back by the writer on word press nailed my thoughts exactly:

"So here’s what I think happened. I think the writing team at Bioware originally had the indoctrination theory in mind, and the game designers were diligently creating all the subtle clues, preparing to pull of the most brilliant narrative effect in recent memory. Then they hit the wall…the wall of a looming deadline and rapidly shrinking money pile. Mass Effect 3 had already been delayed by three months, and properly incorporating the Indoctrination Theory into the game would have resulted in another delay. So someone without a shred of artistic integrity saw the ending sequence of the indoctrination and said “why not just make this the ending?” so they whipped up a half-baked closing cinematic, slapped it on the end and called it a day.
Further evidence that this decision was not made by the writers, is that none of them have come forth to defend the ending. Not a single solitary member of the Mass Effect 3 team has stepped forward to try and at least explain what the ending was about, plug the insanely huge plot holes left, or even apologize for so royally screwing up."

BOLDING Mine for emphasis.

Then again, I think that the writers have been told to STFU by corporate, so the last paragraph is somewhat moot.  It's all speculation really, we won't know anything for sure until  the "new content" is formally announced.  I sure would love to be a fly on  the wall during  the post mortem of this, however.  THAT would be really entertaining.

We'll never know for sure, but that sounds very plausible to me

[SSH83]

Personally, my problem with the ending was that it was so anti-climatic and didn't live up to expectation and promise of a satisfying ending. I dodged laser so many times on Quarian homworld, but I can't dodge a single beam here? Then the infinite ammo? Everything just felt forced and convoluted.  So... below expectation...  That is my main problem. It'd be as if Michelangelo decided to have David be missing a digit. It would've still be a nice sculpture and within his artistic freedom to do so, but it could NOT have become the canon, the perfect model.  People would've dimissed it as a joke, and disregarded how perfect the rest of the sculture was.

Modifié par SSH83, 24 mars 2012 - 04:08 .

[-psyker-]

Having just completed my first playthrough of ME3 last night and reading some of the comments in the forum, here's my thoughts/suggestions.

First, I wasn't that surprised by the appearance of the "star child". Somewhere earlier in the story, someone hinted that there was someone/something behind the Reapers. The "star child" choosing to take the form of the child that Shepard couldn't save gave that element a "full circle" vibe.

Second, part of me feels like the Commander Shepard story isn't over yet. When the stargazer was talking with his/her father (?) during the ending, they made it sound like there's another Shepard story.

Third, I agree with a vast majority of the comments I've read here. The ending was totally incongruous and inconsistent with what BioWare had spent countless hours developing. The Normandy fleeing from the battle, no explanation of what happened with the crew save those we saw exiting the ship on the jungle world, no explanation of what the outcome was with the various species we had spent hours uniting or resolving their internecine issues.

I think the ending was a massive breakdown from the standards BioWare had exhibited throughout the rest of the series. Overall, I was very pleased with the improvement from ME1 to ME2 (thank you, no more Mako missions!), and definitely pleased with the increase in quality from ME2 to ME3.

At some point though, it feels like BioWare moved their eyes from the ball. They encouraged us to care about these characters, invest ourselves in helping/hindering them, and saving the galaxy. The character moments were among the finest in recent video games. Some of my favorites included:
1. Tali's euphoria when she was able to take off her mask on Rannock.
2. Miranda's reaction when she killed her father and reunited with her sister.
3. Mordin's resolve to cure the genophage.
4. Thane's selfless sacrifice.
5. The Asari's counselor's, Liara's, and Shepard's reactions when Thessia fell silent

Having experienced the awesome story and investment that the ME series triggered, I felt an incredible letdown when BioWare punted the ball with the ending. At what point did the ME quality control process fail? I'm disappointed there was no voice that said: "we have millions of fans who've spent countless hours playing this series. Don't you think we owe it to them to develop better endings than these? Maybe give them a sense of closure?" If no one said that during the developmental process, then BioWare should seriously give consideration to bringing in someone who can ask those kinds of questions the next time they develop a series like this.

As for the ending itself, BioWare decided that's what they would provide, and while it's hard to say this, I think they should stick with it. Artistic license and all, this is the ending they decided to provide their fans.

@BioWare - please take your fans' reactions to this series seriously. We may not invest ourselves in your products if you will give them short shrift at the end. Also, please please PLEASE seriously consider implementing cloud saves starting with the first game. I lost all my progress in ME1 and ME2 due to my XBOX's hard drive being nuked, and ended up getting them on the PC due to the cloud save feature. Not fun when the progress on the story gets wiped out 2/3rds of the way through.

[EnforcerWRX7]

 If they just half handedly shove some "clarification" in my face that explains why Joker was in a relay "tunnel" and why random squad members are picked to go to Disney Land (and now the rest of the galaxy is stuck there) then I won't buy another Bioware product again.  
Read it Bioware.  Wallet Voting.

[Sans Changer]

My idea of the ending with explanations:

FTL is still possible- just the fast galaxy-hopping that the relays provided were destroyed. With the Citadel gone and most planets in ruins, and every major species with their military (and civilian) leadership at Earth, Earth is the logical location for a future galactic-wide government that will now include the rachni, the Krogan, and the Quarrians. Quarrians have been able to live on their ships for centuries- I am sure they are equipped to process their food from Earth materials.

In time, as the fleets rebuild, they set off for their respective worlds. The Quarrians have the furthest to go. The Krogans, not so much. Wrex will have to put a lot of things in order when he gets back to Tunchuka.

We don't know how long Shepard was unconscious when he tried to board the Citadel. His crew on Earth had the time to regroup and take a shuttle back to the Normandy. Their last gambit was to board the Citadel and complete the job Shepard began. This was rendered moot when the Reapers were destroyed, but the Normandy was also caught in the mass relay that is the Citadel as they made their attempt to board- the jump was an accident.

The explosion pushed the Normandy to the "end of the line" in terms of the relays. When Shepard recovers (since I kept him alive), they are able to figure out where this is based on the radiation path of relay destruction and he sets off with a rescue team to find them. It will take him a few months to reach the world the Normandy crashed on, though a decade will have passed for them.

Maybe EDI was pushed beyond the limit of the Crucible's destruction?

I realize that the ending with the old man and grandson looks like it's supposed to be the descendents of the Normandy crew on that alien world (which kind of looks like Vrmire but with more foliage), but that still works. The old man doesn't say the kid can't travel to the stars, and maybe Joker and other crew members decided to stay there and build a real sanctuary, outside of galactic politics. Otherwise, I like to think that the varied crew members were able to go where they wanted. Personally, I'd be happy to settle down on Rannoch, even if I would have to spring for some food converters.

Nobody likes to see a hero get old and die. It always has to be "noble sacrifice", "they went missing", or "they gained immortality". Personally, I'm more than happy to see my Shepard get old and die. It's what humans do.

[lillitheris]

Here's to the thinkers who filled in the holes themselves (I love it how everyone complaining apparently just isn't smart enough), answer me these any or all of these questions:

1. Why does Shepard believe what the enemy leader says, without question?

2. Why doesn't Shepard have any options other than those three, not even to walk away?

3. Why is Joker in hyperspace?

4. How does "DNA rewriting" work? ME isn't really "hard" sci-fi, but it's never been this flaccid before…

5. What happened to everybody?

6. Did the mass relays blow up the star systems? If not, why?

7. Why didn't we learn *anything* about the Catalyst before?

8. Why do the Reapers A) have enabled methods of destruction and/or behaviour change but prevent any attempt at using them?


Nobody. Ever. Answers.

This is completely aside the storytelling problems which have been detailed so many times, starting from lack of choice and effects of earlier choices.

Personally, I draw the line with my "demands" to just fixing the problems with the delivered ending. I'd like to have had the option for a happy/ier ending, but that part I can certainly concede to artistic integrity. If the story they wanted to tell - well, what the two dudes who couped the ending wanted to tell, not the entire story team - if that story is that Shepard dies and mass relays are destroyed so that a different kind of galactic society can develop (to establish the new ME universe), that's fine. Just create some kind of a logical path, and show the outcome.

Modifié par lillitheris, 24 mars 2012 - 04:32 .

[cjp31]

Much like many other people who have posted on this thread, I have been thinking about (and appraising) the endings of the game since I finished it five days ago. I have since seen the different variations of the ending and have remarked that they seem significantly similar. I wanted to say a couple of things.

1). Given that the previous two games have been games that have focused on open endings and choice I think it was inevitable that the finale of this game was going to have fewer degrees of difference between the different possible endings. This smaller degree of difference is due to the closing of Shepard's story arc - i.e. the story has to end and it has to end a specific way if any future games are going to have a basis on which to build. In retrospect, although there were choices that were possible in each of the previous two games (some of which removed whole characters from the future games) I think the degrees of freedom is being misconstrued to a large extent. You always were going to stop Saren and Sovereign; you were always going to do the final suicide run in Mass Effect 2. Your decisions from those games have very real consequences in Mass Effect 3 (curing the genophage, saving/destroying the collector base). That said, I think the key basis of the decisions in Mass Effect series is more about how you engage with and interact with the characters of your squad; these are the interactions that matter in the game which is why images of those characters flash up during the end sequences in Mass Effect 3.

2). Mass Effect 3 is about death and weighing up the consequences of having to make horrible decisions. The psychological cracks that begin to appear in Shepard demonstrate the actual toll that these kinds of decisions take on a person during wartime and foreshadow that he is NOT going to come out of this fight even remotely similar to who he was going into it. These drastic consequences are even reflected in the universe around you with the destruction of the mass relays and the stranded crew members; after the battle the galaxy is not the same BECAUSE the cycle has finished (or has changed). To wish for a happy ending I think is to miss the point entirely.

3). By these two points above I do not mean to suggest that the endings are perfect or that they could not be improved. I do think that a bit more focus on the characters is important. And there are significant plot points which absolutely need to be resolved (see Normandy and Mass relay explosions). Some of these plot points may be able to be chalked up to the inability of the characters in the story to completely comprehend the technology they are building, but some of them are due to oversight in writing I believe. I hope that any DLC in the future does not change the overall ending, but I do hope that more clarity and consistency is provided (something which may require the sequence of events to be reconsidered).

4) I'm not entirely sure how much I believe the indoctrination theory. I'm reluctant to do so on the basis that it feels like it mainly appeals to what I wish was true - namely that Shepard's story isn't over and that there is a fight to be had with Harbinger. Sometimes how things turn out is not exactly as anticipated (another lesson of the series)

Overall I do not think that last 10 minutes of the game ruin the entire series, let alone Mass Effect 3 itself. Most of the point hammered home in the final game is that no matter the outcome what matters is the meaning you make for yourself and the relationships you build - something that happens throughout the game. The ending is a bit out of left field, but it does not throw EVERYTHING out of the window as some suggest. It just feels a bit horrible because it raises so many questions and answers few of them. At the same time, this should be taken as a positive sign because leaving questions open means that there may be another game (not necessarily featuring Shepard) in the works to answer them!

[tschamp]

I post this someplace else:


I still love playing ME 1 and 2. The epic story, the characters, and the
intense feeling you get while playing those games keep you on edge of
your seat. ME 3 was like that for 90% of the game. They build up this
epic battle to have different color gas to be your epic conclusion. The
ending define the series. It would be reading like Julies Vern's
Journey to the Center of the Earth to have epic escape be taking the
door mark exit.

All I can say is that I still enjoy ME 1
(Microsoft Studios) and ME 2 ( EA ). I enjoy ME 3 (EA) until someone
decide that burping the universe was a good idea.

[Low Resolution]

The biggest and most significant outcome of the ME3 ending has been to kill any enthusiasm and any desire to play the game again.

The endings of ME1 and ME2 made me so excited and engaged in the story that I played the games three and four times again, getting a lot of fun. On the contrary, this final is such anticlimactic, disconnected from the game, and dismissive of my choices and the story itself, that I've lost any enthusiasm and engagement.

This is a video game, not a linear book or movie. It is supposed to be interactive. Across three games I've been involved in building a plot, choosing my approaches to situations, taking crucial decisions and creating my connections with characters. As a player I've built my story and now I want to see the consequences and the implications of it. This has been always the core feature of the whole ME saga, the ingredient that made us all love the game so much. 

Modifié par Low Resolution, 24 mars 2012 - 04:44 .