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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#10301
Ex Tenebrae Lux

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magnetite wrote...

The new ending should read like a war story, not a fantasy game where everyone lives happily ever after. I think people really expect too much from developers. They basically complain until the developer gives in and gives them what they want. At what point do they step in and say, we'll listen, but we have to stick with our vision for the game.


The new ending(s) should be based on decisions made by the player. Not another ending you can't choose for yourself.

And about that "we have to stick with our vision"... 
Well, in Marketing, I learned that the people should like your product if you want to sell it... as I don't think that EA is a charity organisation... we'll see.

#10302
jeweledleah

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Numdenu wrote...

Dawson14 wrote...

magnetite wrote...

The new ending should read like a war story, not a fantasy game where everyone lives happily ever after. I think people really expect too much from developers. They basically complain until the developer gives in and gives them what they want. At what point do they step in and say, we'll listen, but we have to stick with our vision for the game.


Um, are you kidding? How about because their vision has about 90% of the community pissed off about how horrible the ending was and 90% of potential customers is a lot of money? I don't think they want to do that.


And then someone answers with "you can't change art, games are art!"

You know what my answer is to that?
PEOPLE CRITICIZE ART FOR A LIVING.


even better responce, IMO, from few pages back (since people keep bringing up Mona Lisa as an example)

Machazareel wrote...

Dehnyen wrote...



 Please. I say that from an artisitc standpoint. This trillogy is done. The art is done. Don't modify it.




"Art is never finished, only abandoned."
- Leonardo Da Vinci.


Mass Effect 3 is already a war story.  it doesn't get any more like war then it already is.  earth is burning.  so does palaven.  there are refugies flocking to the citadel and there's not enough space for them all.  shortage of supplies.  Thessia is lost.  our allies are lost, one by one.  walking through the Citadel and just listening to people talk.. especialy in a hospital and a refugee camp....

I think we're all very well aware that its war.  but war stories allso ending with victories and celebrations, triumphant soldiers returning home to the orcestra playing, their loved ones waiting fro them to arrive, leaping into their arms...  parades, celebrations and awards of the medals.  you think star wars ending weas pulled out of the vacuum?  no.  it worked becasue it was based on real life celebrations.

there are various war stories.  one of my favorite authors of all time is Erich Maria Remark.  he mainly wrote about war world 2, I think you may have heard of "All is quiet on a western front" ?  he stories were pretty bleak.  and they pretty much never had happy endings.  but they worked.  they worked becasue they didn't go through severe tonal shifts they worked becasue from the very start - their intention was to show the negative affect of war on individuals.

Mass Effect?   had a different tone.  it was about individuals overcoming their hardships, overcoming their differences and thriumphing against all odds, through working together as a team.  ME1 starts to touch on those themes lightly, ME2 has it as its main theme and ME3/  takes it to the Galactic scale, all the while still keeping it individual.  and there's always hope.  there's always triumph. and in the end, the world improved in some way.  and we almost get that with ME3... untill it takes all that and crushes it under the hill of some ethereal kid with god complex.

it was such a good story.  and then rocks fell and everyone died.

#10303
TheRealMithril

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improperdancing wrote...

There's no way there were over two million sales on Origin.  PC gaming is not nearly popular enough to support that many sales for what has primarily been an XBOX franchise.  It could be damage control on EA's part.  Leaking fake numbers to make it seem like more people are buying the game than actually are.


Ok two things. First, it's not primarily an XBox franchise. Mass Effect on the PC is very popular. And we have no real way of tracking digital sales because those are not disclosed.

Secondly, I did say I was guessing. I have only the numbers EA themselves mentioned to go by. From the numbers in the list I notices there are (at least) two million sales missing. I am guessing (quite probably) that those are digital sales.

I also don't care about any VS 'that' battles. I have consoles and PC and prefer PC thats it. If you want to believe in your platform that's fine. I am saying there are two million sales missing, and since we can't track digital sales I am guessing the sales are there.

Finally I would like to add that PC gaming is larger than all consoles put together.

Modifié par TheRealMithril, 24 mars 2012 - 09:18 .


#10304
StarcloudSWG

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Here's a list of links to threads and critiques that Casey Hudson, Mac Walters, and the Bioware Mass Effect writing team would all be very well advised to *read through*.

For my own part, I found Shepard's suicide in two of the ending variations to be utterly unecessary and actually offensive, and I found the lack of proper closure, lack of memorial scenes, and lack of rebuilding amidst the devastation to be particularly galling and depressing.

Ending Critiques:
Maintaining the artistic integrity of the original story
The ending of Mass Effect 3: Why it's bad
Musings of a Screenwriter: The Endings Thread
A logical breakdown of why the Mass Effect 3 endings make no sense (Google Docs)
Mass Effect 3 Ending Hatred: Five reasons the fans are right (Gamefront)
Why you enjoy art, and the one problem with Mass Effect 3 ending (The Metagames)
My thoughts on the ending as a writing/literary teacher ...
The psychology of why we dislike the endings
"The comprehensive list of grievances" thread
On the betrayal of hope in Mass Effect 3's ending
Mass Effect 3 Ending Deconstruction (Shamus Young)
Mass Effect 3: A study of shell games
Why I hold the line: Words from a literature grad student
Mass Effect 3 Alternate Endings (Deviant Art, text links that look like incomplete thumbnails. Includes critique and explanation of themes)
Mass Effect 3 Ending Controversy (Escapist, Shamus Young)
Changing Mass Effect 3: Artistic Integrity or Consumer Product? (Corkonia)
In Depth thematic analysis of Mass Effect 3 Ending: Pt. 1
"The end seems arbitrary."
All that matters is the ending: Part 2 (JM Stevenson)

Reviews including the ending:
California Literary Review: Mass Effect 3

Plot holes:
Specific questions raised by the ending

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 24 mars 2012 - 10:11 .


#10305
jeweledleah

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TheRealMithril wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

There's no way there were over two million sales on Origin.  PC gaming is not nearly popular enough to support that many sales for what has primarily been an XBOX franchise.  It could be damage control on EA's part.  Leaking fake numbers to make it seem like more people are buying the game than actually are.


Ok two things. First, it's not primarily an XBox franchise. Mass Effect on the PC is very popular. And we have no real way of tracking digital sales because those are not disclosed.

Secondly, I did say I was guessing. I have only the numbers EA themselves mentioned to go by. From the numbers in the list I notices there are (at least) two million sales missing. I am guessing (quite probably) that those are digital sales.

I also don't care about any VS 'that' battles. I have consoles and PC and prefer PC thats it. If you want to believe in your platform that's fine. I am saying there are two million sales missing, and since we can't track digital sales I am guessing the sales are there.

Finally I would like to add that PC gaming is larger than all consoles put together.


3.5 million is the number of coppies SHIPPED.  not sold.  those missing copies?  they are still in stores, sitting on shelves.

#10306
TheRealMithril

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jeweledleah wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

There's no way there were over two million sales on Origin.  PC gaming is not nearly popular enough to support that many sales for what has primarily been an XBOX franchise.  It could be damage control on EA's part.  Leaking fake numbers to make it seem like more people are buying the game than actually are.


Ok two things. First, it's not primarily an XBox franchise. Mass Effect on the PC is very popular. And we have no real way of tracking digital sales because those are not disclosed.

Secondly, I did say I was guessing. I have only the numbers EA themselves mentioned to go by. From the numbers in the list I notices there are (at least) two million sales missing. I am guessing (quite probably) that those are digital sales.

I also don't care about any VS 'that' battles. I have consoles and PC and prefer PC thats it. If you want to believe in your platform that's fine. I am saying there are two million sales missing, and since we can't track digital sales I am guessing the sales are there.

Finally I would like to add that PC gaming is larger than all consoles put together.


3.5 million is the number of coppies SHIPPED.  not sold.  those missing copies?  they are still in stores, sitting on shelves.


Shipped in EA books are sales. If you buy something on Origin you will notice that it is 'shipped' to you. Don't think for a minute there is 0 sales on Origin..

#10307
Numdenu

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Personally, I think the best part of the endings as they are is that I can go "SPAAAAAACE MAGIC!!" and thereby totally justify rolling up Ashley Williams for my newest playthrough of Skyrim.

Seriously, you have such meticulous codex entries...and then Synthesis. It makes. No. Sense.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind keeping the current endings, if you add on endings that are DIFFERENT. At least one happy ending, and at least one bad ending. Come on, you can do it. You've done it before.

#10308
Sigma2010

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These three optional endings are no endings at all. Let’s start with the renegade ending. You destroy the reapers and the mass relays as well. Killing Shepard and stranding the entire fleet in the Sol system, with earth as the only habitable world. Second ending, control the Reapers Shepard dies, relays destroyed, fleet stranded in Sol system, end result; war over resources. Synthesis ending everyone magically gets there DNA rewritten, relays are destroyed, fleet stranded in Sol system, end result; war over resources. The perfecting endings are multiple races and billions of survivors at war for food and resources? It’s ironic really, that Bioware would script a quote into Mass Effect 2 and actually create scenarios where in each ending the result is the same. The quote if you’re wondering was made by Thane aboard the Normandy.
"When all the world is overcharged with inhabitants, then the last remedy of all is war, which provideth for every man, by victory or death." Thane was quoting Thomas Hobbs. Simply put to many people, not enough resources. End result death and destruction. Doesn’t matter what your DNA code is rewritten to be.
All and all these endings aren’t perfect in the least. If anything they leave quite a few questions for me. One question I have is how did your squad mates end up on the Normandy crash landing on some remote world? The second, why is it that if you need the Geth and the Migrant Fleet to join forces. Why are you forced to choose between them and decide the extinction of an entire race. This isn’t a paragon decision or even a renegade decision. It’s just a pointless filler mission in the game. Isn’t this action the same as the one the Catalyst is using the Reapers for? Deciding the destruction of life in the galaxy? Also, why combine the paragon and renegade meter?
Anyway, I’m happy for those that feel these endings are satisfying. But for me they do very little to create any form of explaining or creating entertaining endings. I can’t honestly say that I would continue being a customer. It simply isn’t worth it to keep playing. I’m actually disappointed that I was so eager to buy the game.

#10309
Dan Dark

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jeweledleah wrote...

Mass Effect?   had a different tone.  it was about individuals overcoming their hardships, overcoming their differences and thriumphing against all odds, through working together as a team.  ME1 starts to touch on those themes lightly, ME2 has it as its main theme and ME3/  takes it to the Galactic scale, all the while still keeping it individual.  and there's always hope.  there's always triumph. and in the end, the world improved in some way.  and we almost get that with ME3... untill it takes all that and crushes it under the hill of some ethereal kid with god complex.

it was such a good story.  and then rocks fell and everyone died.


This, this, a thousand times THIS! Not even having the possibility of a happy ending goes against everything Mass Effect has been. It shouldn't only be a happy ending, of course - there should only be, say, two or three, based on having a high enough Reputation and enough EMS; maybe factor in elements from ME2 as well, even - did everyone survive that Suicide Mission? There should be plenty of less ideal endings, too, of course - Shepard dies, squadmates die, entire fleets are decimated.. there should even be one or two where you outright lose, and the Reapers win. Providing closure there wouldn't be too hard - just show everyone falling in battle, the different planets in flames... even here, though, there should be that glimmer of hope; after the credits roll, show someone digging up one of Liara's time capsules. This way, even though you failed to stop the cycle, you've helped provide the next generation an even better chance.

The endings should provide actual closure, while still sticking to the main themes of Mass Effect - there's no reason Commander Shepard shouldn't be able to manage to do the impossible and overcome the odds just once more.

#10310
LoopyMama

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[quote]someone else wrote...

I think BW has had this planned out long ago - there is only one "Best Ending" as Chris has said repeatedly - and that has to be the one in which Shep draws a breath -

Snip

3. If the Ending is not the end, then rewriting the game is not necessary (and would likely have been impossibly difficult, costly etc, and almost certainly kludgy)

4. BW says to expect something in april - a LotSB size dlc cannot be created in a month's time, and certainly something of that magnitude would be necessary to "re-do" the ending - whatever is forthcoming has to have been in the works long before release date.

Snip

OK, here for the first time, Just want to remind people that we have been told we will be given more INFO in April not nessarily the DLC.
That said, I hate the present endings and seriously believe they are so similar so that Bioware can release a single DLC that goes forward from one point in time and not diverging paths. Check out Forbes for the 2 minuite video explaining it.

Bioware, we are not calling your baby ugly, we think its beautiful and don't want you to hurt it!!!

Holding the line, although there is no need to do so, this was Bioware's plan all along. They just underestimated the passion we have for this game and the strength of our reaction.

#10311
Guest_magnetite_*

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Ex Tenebrae Lux wrote...

The new ending(s) should be based on decisions made by the player. Not another ending you can't choose for yourself.

And about that "we have to stick with our vision"... 
Well, in Marketing, I learned that the people should like your product if you want to sell it... as I don't think that EA is a charity organisation... we'll see.


I agree with being able to have your choices affect the ending. However, what I'm afraid of is, if the next ending comes out, some people won't like it, and then they'll come on here and demand yet another ending. Like I said before, not going to please everyone.

#10312
TheRealMithril

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magnetite wrote...

Ex Tenebrae Lux wrote...

The new ending(s) should be based on decisions made by the player. Not another ending you can't choose for yourself.

And about that "we have to stick with our vision"... 
Well, in Marketing, I learned that the people should like your product if you want to sell it... as I don't think that EA is a charity organisation... we'll see.


I agree with being able to have your choices affect the ending. However, what I'm afraid of is, if the next ending comes out, some people won't like it, and then they'll come on here and demand yet another ending. Like I said before, not going to please everyone.


I think everyone agrees to that, but I take what I can get, as long as I'll get rid of the startchild nonsense.

#10313
luci90

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ifritanshiva wrote...

clarkusdarkus wrote...

Abreu Road wrote...

Thorfin_zly wrote...

Kenta Shuuichi wrote...

Tony0618 wrote...

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I beg to differ.  We DO want a happy ending. an option of one.  a Babilon 5 ending.  ME1 and ME2 type ending.

I'm just as tired of "no, we just want clarity" brigade as I am of "sunshine and rainbows and puppies" brigade.  neither is entirely correct.

even if the endings are "clarified"  galactic civilization is STILL screwed without relays.  the endings are STILL far too similar.  and as a result - the game is non replayable, and there's absolutely no motivation to buying any more DLC's for it.  for quite a few of us


Agreed. 


Me too.


Count me in.


That's it. Nothing to add.


You guys have my axe. Count me in.


" i'll buy that for a dollarrrrrr " oh...no i wont, i was watching robocop, i agree nothing to add.


^^this..... agreed!!!!


Hope it's not too late to join the party.

#10314
Nuke7786

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With regards to the sales, I believe it is 3.5 million shipped like someone had mentioned however I think there was around 1 million in pre orders. Makes for a bit more realistic number of copies still in inventory elsewhere.

Been reading all week after posting my thoughts on page 132 or something ha, really hoping for the indoctrination theory. Maintains bioware knew what they were doing, just happened the took too many people by surprise. And that's also mean a real finale
Is around the corner...

#10315
jeweledleah

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TheRealMithril wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

There's no way there were over two million sales on Origin.  PC gaming is not nearly popular enough to support that many sales for what has primarily been an XBOX franchise.  It could be damage control on EA's part.  Leaking fake numbers to make it seem like more people are buying the game than actually are.


Ok two things. First, it's not primarily an XBox franchise. Mass Effect on the PC is very popular. And we have no real way of tracking digital sales because those are not disclosed.

Secondly, I did say I was guessing. I have only the numbers EA themselves mentioned to go by. From the numbers in the list I notices there are (at least) two million sales missing. I am guessing (quite probably) that those are digital sales.

I also don't care about any VS 'that' battles. I have consoles and PC and prefer PC thats it. If you want to believe in your platform that's fine. I am saying there are two million sales missing, and since we can't track digital sales I am guessing the sales are there.

Finally I would like to add that PC gaming is larger than all consoles put together.


3.5 million is the number of coppies SHIPPED.  not sold.  those missing copies?  they are still in stores, sitting on shelves.


Shipped in EA books are sales. If you buy something on Origin you will notice that it is 'shipped' to you. Don't think for a minute there is 0 sales on Origin..


........  Shipped to stores.  you know, like when you go to gamestop or best buy?  and see the games sitting on the shelves?  they are not counted as a sale, untill they are i na hands of the customer. 

#10316
BoricuaHLM

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Most ME3 fans want new endings, that make SENSE, so Bioware should just do them and sell them for like ten bucks. These endings are a bad way to end Shepard's awesome story, so I'm willing to pay that to make Shepard end his story alive and happy.

#10317
TheRealMithril

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jeweledleah wrote...


........  Shipped to stores.  you know, like when you go to gamestop or best buy?  and see the games sitting on the shelves?  they are not counted as a sale, untill they are i na hands of the customer. 


EA doesn't care. ... but whatever rocks your boat. .. it's clear you seriously underestimate Origin.

#10318
Julwise

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The story of ME3 made me feel even more invested in the universe I had grown to love. I felt triumphant when Shepard united races that had been warring for so long and desperate when (s)he wasn't able to save everyone. In both cases, I was moved and felt I was edging toward a satisfying conclusion. I spent extra time gathering as many war assets as possible, thinking that the key to a sound victory with the least amount of losses.

Then, the ending forced me to destroy that universe as I knew it with few answers and even more questions.

Some kind of avatar appears in the last 10 minutes of the game, with no explanation of what it is, where it came from, what its motivations are, or how it can say that the created will always rebel against their creators, even given the fact that Shepard just recently united the geth and quarians after 300 years. Is it even talking about synthetic life in this scenario or is it some metaphor about gods? It's impossible to interpret.

Suddenly, Shepard seems to take what this kid says at face value, despite the strong current of self-determination running throughout the prior 150 or so hours of gameplay.

"The created will always rebel against their creators" - Why? What in the prior game(s) stands as a testament to this statement? And even if we are supposed to accept this as true, why should that mean that creating reapers to wipe out advanced civilization every 50,000 years is somehow an acceptable solution? I have NO IDEA how the child avatar came to this conclusion and he provides no explanation.

"Synthesis is the next step in evolution" - Also, why? Where does this wild assertion come from and why am I presumably supposed to just accept it as fact? The only way that this option even seems to be related to any of the prior Mass Effect gameplay is in that Shepard is partly synthetic after being revived by Cerberus. The child asks "could you imagine yourself without synthetics?" Yes. because the entire first game was played without synthetic parts, and aside from knowing they're there, the cybernetics appear to have NO affect whatsoever on how Shepard operates in the entirety of the second and third games. There are only cursory references to the fact that Shepard is not entirely human anymore. Shepard doesn't seem to have an identity crisis or to struggle with the fact that (s)he's partly cybernetic and what that might mean, what the consequences might be. It's simply brushed off until the ending when suddenly it's the basis for the conclusion of the entire series. I am also really confused about the consequences of this decision. Do synthetcs also become partly organic? Do they stop needing food, air, etc? As the reapers are synthetic/organic hybrid creaturs, it leads me to believe that all life becomes immortal, like the reapers, lacking the need for nourishment or air.

"Take back earth" - I don't have any clue what happened to earth except that I appear to be dying in a pile of rubble on it (in one ending). Everything galactic civilization is based on (the citadel and mass relays) is now wiped out, leading me to believe that there will still be a "cleansing" period of some sort, where all those fleets and races stranded in the Sol system fight for resources until enough of the population is culled to continue sustaining life. It seems that even without the reapers, a devolution must take place in order to restore the sustainability of life. Presumably, the only affect war assets and galactic readiness have on the game is whether more or fewer millions or billions will die. It's a pretty bleak picture.

Even in the endings where it is implied Shepard lives, it appears that any love interest you might have had is stranded on some unknown planet that is now likely out of reach due to the destruction of the mass relays. While interesting to pursue at the time, it seems any love interest is ultimately pointless, as there is no real chance for a conclusion to this story. This is a more minor complaint, but it just adds to the sting.

I see a lot of interesting things in the ending as well, when taken alone. The ending seems intended to provide a sense that you can decide the path of the future for all races, having a defining effect on the universe for generations to come with your sacrifice. It also brings up questions about the value of synthetic life, forcing you to make that value determination given all the signs of "humanity' in the geth and EDI you've witnessed. It's also interesting to consider controlling the reapers. You must consider whether it's worth it to control these powerful machines, when they have been nothing but instruments of destruction and genocide for eons. When looking at the ending as a separate scene, it does make you think about these concepts and their consequences. It does give you a weighty sense that the fate of the galaxy is in your hands. After the personal, emotional, engaging relationships you've developed over playing the series, the attachments to characters and places, making this weighty decision based on concepts, ideas, and their possible future extrapolations feels empty. While ultimately it makes sense that your journey is indeed about saving the galaxy as a whole, what the series has really made me care about is the individual people. And receiving very little in the way of satisfying conclusions for their stories makes it feel like it was all for naught.

TL;DR - It's not that the ending is "bad." It is interesting and I do believe epic. I think maybe it just turned out that what I really care about after 150 hours of gameplay isn't being an epic (arguably tragic) hero who determines the fate of the galaxy, but about saving my friends and indulging in the fruits of that effort. Maybe it is "entitled" or diminishes artistic integrity to feel that way, but it's the truth.


EDIT: Not that I don't want to feel like a hero, but I wanna feel like an "EFF YEAH I DID IT!" hero, not a "Yay I saved us from the reap--Oh no what the hell is gonna happen to all those stranded starships!?" hero.

Modifié par Julwise, 24 mars 2012 - 10:24 .


#10319
Cheezer

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Some people were saying that a happy ending is wrong and wouldn't fit with the game's tone.
That's not true actually, considering you spend many hours trying to accomplish just that. You have to take into account what "happy" ending means. A happy ending is the one in which you don't lose, and quite frankly in the endings there are, I see no victory. Relays destroyed ending in mass extinction no matter what choice and the sacrifices of so many coming to nothing. The only 'happy' ending is the destroy option, because at the very least you destroy the bastards who brought you to this point and that punkass little kid. It would be "happy", even with the death of commander shepard and his entire crew, if only the galaxy wasn't raped.

I thought it was happy-ish when I chose destroy, then shepard awoke in rubble on earth (how would he have re-entered atmo and still taken breath or survived citadel explosion, it was clearly a mental battle against the reapers). That explains how the "end" was not the real end, and he still has to finish the fight.

We might not get happy endings, but I think bittersweet endings would work fine. As is it's like a christopher nolan film style ending that leaves you with a blank expression unsure of what to think

#10320
eoinnx03

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Aparently they are not listening. I've heard talk about a twitter post for the official page that said that hey arn't changing endings just adding more explanation to them. This is not good. I want blue babbies.
Anyone else hear this and can confirm?

#10321
Mastone

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BoricuaHLM wrote...

Most ME3 fans want new endings, that make SENSE, so Bioware should just do them and sell them for like ten bucks. These endings are a bad way to end Shepard's awesome story, so I'm willing to pay that to make Shepard end his story alive and happy.


The fact that people are willing to pay for an ending shows that people are really desparate, if Bioware plays out a smart long term strategy they will offer it for free and make the next DLC 20 bucks hahaha ( it's what I would have done 

#10322
Hanabii

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I am of the Hallucination theory you may have seen gabbed on about in other threads.

The whole game Commander Shepard was getting more and more stressed, as time went on she became less and less 'human'. In a way.

When you first get onto the Citadel it feels like a dream. You're crawling through a hallway of your own dead. Mysteriously faced with the Illusive man with no hint at how he got there. When he commands you, you put a bullet in Anderson and are using all your might to resist.

The bodies are like the phantoms in her dreams that she'd been having. They didn't seem real. Her mental state is weakened by blood loss, consistent exposure to indoctrination. They might not have even been real.

Remember the Rachni described the reaper's influence as a tone like Oily Shadows. If you look at the Oily shadows that become more prominent in your dream you will see.

Let's use other examples of other people who'd felt it.

Saren said Indoctrination was subtle and crafty. The Illusive Man didn't even know he was indoctrinated unless you Paragon'd the HELL out of him. Rana Thanoptist (Get out of here before I blow up Vermire Girl.) who had a weak mind committed suicide after even her relatively small exposure compared to Shepard. Shialla (Green Girl) was only freed from it by the effects of the Thorien and was Mindlinked to the Feros Collenists who made a suprising effective force. I believe Shialla's mind-link allowed other's minds to stabilize and counter re-indoctrination, that and the exposure to the Thorian's mind.

Lastly if you listen to the Indoctrination Codex from each game they describe exactly what Shepard is going through.

In the dark dream Shepard is warned, as she runs chasing the phantom she sees herself hugging the child, smiling creepily as they both burn, a forewarning of what lies ahead. That the reapers are riding on an image of her guilt as 'The Catalyst' of her indoctrination.

Now if you pay attention after Harbinger's Beam hits you.

If you look around the place before you move to the Beam you will notice that there is shrubbery on the ground identical to the ones in Shepard's dreams (There wasn't any before I think.) And that if you look at the horizon it matches the trees in the forest in Shepard's dreams.

Everything in that part is Slow Mo in an identical fashion to Shepard's dreams.

On the Comm a general retreat order is issued, yet Commander Shepard is still standing however, NO ONE made it to the beam. Harbinger also ups and leaves, so does the alliance. Now, if that beam was the fate of the war, getting someone into it allows them to infiltrate the Citadel and activate the Catalyst and destroy the reapers then neither side would abandon their effort, and if one side did back off the other surely would NOT.

After you get into the Citadel if you look around the area is reminiscent of the Collector's Base, remember NO ONE made it into the beam, yet you are in a hallway full of dead humans in an area of the Citadel NO ONE knew even existed.

Suddenly Anderson is on your Comm, (Which probably would have been damaged by the beam, but letting that one slide.) Saying that he came in behind you.

As you move on you will go through an area of 'moving walls' that is identical to the ones in the Shadow Broker's Ship minus the lightning.

Now, you get into the main room and suddenly Anderson is there ahead of you somehow, when he said he came in behind you. Through the SAME portal you took. Meaning if he HAD come in behind you then HE would have had to pass you in the halls.

The area does not look like the Council Chamber much, it has the Pedestal identical to the one you stood on to open the Citadel but the rest of the layout is messed up. No artificial atmosphere like the Council Chambers had, just a direct view of the wards outside.

Commander Shepard and Anderson then have the 'Illusive Man' come out, partially Huskified. You heard the speeches.

The Truth of the Matter is Anderson is the side of you that is Not Indoctrinated, your minds last vestiges of resistance against Indoctrination. The Illusive man is the side that is indoctrinated. If you listen to the worlds they speak you'll notice they are both relating everything back to Shepard's Personal Psychological State.

It's one thing for 'you' to be supposedly commanded by the Reapers but Anderson was never Indoctrinated, the Illusive Man should NEVER be able to have the slightest bit of control yet he does.

If you let the Illusive Man kill Anderson, it's game over, he drops, you get shot. But what is weird is for all this talk of "LET'S CONTROL THEM!" he doesn't even show an interest in the control panel to start the progress, it ends with him walking the way you came in smiling evilly with a 'Critical Mission Failure.' sign.

Now let's say you talk the Illusive Man into taking his own life. You convince the indoctrinated part of you, the one represented by the Illusive Man that it had gone too far. And reminiscent of Saren so many years ago the Illusive Man performs the exact same suicide.

When you sit down with Anderson (Whom you shot once in the gut.) Anderson is proud of you, and professes 'God, I haven't sat down in years.' in reference to the ever continuing struggle in Shepard's mind.

Now Shepard holds a wound on his own side, a wound in the EXACT same place he shot Anderson. However earlier when he was Shot by Marauder Shields he was hit in the right shoulder on the Opposite Quadrant of the body.

That wound represents Shepard wounding his own resistance to Indoctrination, his will to stave off indoctrination bleeding out.

Now onto the endings.

Shepard crawls forward hearing Hacket say there is still one thing left, Hacket, the voice Shepard always associated as the man telling him what needs to be done. Telling him, he's not done. However Hacket didn't even KNOW Shepard had made it to the beam, he'd confirmed that no one had made it and gave a full retreat order.

Shepard Crawls forward trying to reach the panel but falls face first onto the ground where he is magically lifted upwards on an elevator that takes him upwards to the final scenes.

Up above Shepard's wound has magically closed, as he stands he looks around in the dead of space (Remember Mass Effect Fields CANNOT stop air, otherwise Kenetic Shields would suffocate their wearers.)

If you look at the space around Shepard you will see ships everywhere fighting, ships that shouldn't be there. Most notably the Shadow Broker's Unique one of a kind ship that was designed solely for inner atmosphere flight confirmed destroyed by Liara who crashed it into a Cerberus Cruiser before the game started.

Then The Catalyst Comes and starts to speak, if you listen, on the Left Audio Channel is the Boys Voice and FemSheps. Out of the right Audio Channel is ManShep's Voice. The boy then confronts you with your possible endings.

Remember also that Indoctrination is also described as making people view the reapers with Superstitious Awe. In this case like a mysterious god figure that was completely unheard of before the scene.

Also why would the Catalyst or the Citadel have a 3 platform place specifically designed for 'choosing your options.' the Crucible was designed over many cycles and improved upon with the sole purpose of destroying the reapers. Not starting new options.

There is Synthases, Remember Long Ago facing Sarin that it was his dream to commit Synthases upon life. To save more lives then ever existed by uniting man and machine as one! Remember that it was a lie by the reapers. The Boy REALLY favors this option.

There is Control, The Illusive Man's goal, to Control and Dominate the reapers a seemingly reasonable approach, but remember the boy said the Illusive Man couldn't control them, because they already controlled him.

Both these two endings which the boy favors compromises EVERYTHING Shepard worked for, and basically allow them to Control Shepard.

Then lastly there is Destroy, The Starchild HATES this option, he tells you about it then tries to ward you off of it by saying it would kill The Geth, You and all Synthetics, Including the Reapers. It is represented by Captain Anderson, who in this scenario WAS the logical side of Shepard's mind. The side resisting indoctrination to the last. Note lastly that this is also the only ending where you wake up in the rubble.

LOW EMS.

The reason you only get destroy with LOW EMS is because you weren't under the effects of the Later part of Indoctrination. Remember the reapers are ALL here, not just one or two so a subtle process that was taking years on Shepard was sped up a lot. Fully Indoctrinating Shepard is Impossible. So Shepard breaks out of it.

However the ending you get is everyone burning, the world being scorched, the Normandy crashing but no one coming out. This is a projection of despair and defeat.

---

Assuming you had high EMS, you wake up in the rubble, sharply in-taking a breath, an option only seen if you hold to what your objective has been the whole game. The Citadel is made of metals, Irons and no Concrete, however you are laying in Concrete rubble much like London where you fell. And in THAT mess of rubble everything is destroyed and there is no magical shrubbery that survived the beam.

You are no longer indoctrinated. But wait? You're partly Synthetic, that ending should have killed you squat dead as the other two.

That means that A, The Geth probably aren't dead.
---

If you picked the other two endings notice how when Shepard Dissolves he looks completely like a husk, and even has husk eyes, husk skin, before totally burning up. Indoctrination complete.

---

Finally let's talk about the end where people survived? Why if the explosions were meant to kill synthetics, merge DNA or Control Reapers, would they even effect the Normandy? Why was the Normandy ahead of the beam?

Think about this carefully.

This is the last part of Shepard's mind clinging to hope, it's not reasonable, it's full of holes, but he's hoping that somewhere on a safe place, Joker and his Crew (AND THE PEOPLE NEXT TO HIM at the beam.) are safe on a Paradise world far away from the war.

Also note, that EDI is a Synthetic with Reaper Code aiding in the AI neural Synaptics. If she was with you on the ground before the beam, she will ALWAYS step out of the ship with Joker. Disproving the Lying Starchild's assertions that destroy will destroy ALL organics.

Renegade vs. Paragon
Remember the Reaper's Indoctrination slowly changes the way your mind thinks to be more in lined with the reapers. The boy tried to make the only option that would free you from Indoctrination go against your better (Paragon) Moral Judgement. In this case Renegade which has been going off the Deep End for the most part of the game is the instinctual will to fight to the bitter last and not go down to the Reapers.

Remember Paragon/Renegade while often Good and Evil is more representative of Honesty and Deception, Order and Chaos. The Illusive Man's Control idea represented Order, and Anderson and Destroy, Chaos. The Reapers view Organic live AS Chaos.

My advice is watch the Video at:

Even if you have to pause it and step away twenty minutes. It explains everything I have better they I could. I'm not good with screenshots or pictures, but the work is already done.

Watch this Video and be amazed.

Remember Bioware NEVER made a nonsensical Ending before. Dragon Age 2 was debatable their worst ending However it tried something Daring and had to meet a Cannon for Dragon Age 3 eventually. It made sense and had good closure, the games biggest fault was the Kirkwall lock down.

And By the Quality of the rest of ME3's writing it wouldn't make sense for the ending to railroad off at the home run unless they had more planned.

Now from a Marketing Standpoint it's bad to leave such a high study required ending as the one they did. However from a storytelling and "ARTISTIC" viewpoint it is very good. ME3 Sold extremely well and you KNOW they will bring out more.

At the moment they are in a Damned if you do, Damned if you don't state with the ending, but I don't think they planned to close it off at that.

Remember you are due ONE MORE STORY by the Stargazer. And if you are using Pre-Ending DLC then you can assume that he's already told that story by the end.

Remember Endings after the main game have been around for a little while now.

My first ending after game launch was Ubisoft with Prince of Persia (The relaunch). (I hated them for it because they basically said all PC gamers are pirates and you'll never get the ending because we are making it console only.)

Then there was Fallout 3 and Broken Steel. (Which Fallout 3 got ****** Poor reception for the ending and Broken Steel was Improve, it's still one of the most well loved games around.)

So hit or miss, this is the path Bioware is on. And there is a real ending on it's way. I have faith.

#10323
Cheezer

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eoinnx03 wrote...

Aparently they are not listening. I've heard talk about a twitter post for the official page that said that hey arn't changing endings just adding more explanation to them. This is not good. I want blue babbies.
Anyone else hear this and can confirm?


Extra explanation for an extra $10 is probably what they have planned. If they are releasing a "one more story" DLC then it's the best damn strategy ever. Who honestly wouldn't buy it, just for closure? You have to show some respect for them, because it's not like their putting a gun to your head to make you pay $10, but they are putting a gun to the head of commander shepard's story, and unless you pay the ransom,  they'll pull the trigger.:crying:

And props to hanabii for explaining what the endings actually mean. Like Inception, the ending was meant to inspire theories and thoughts and arguments, or at least I hope it was

Modifié par Cheezer, 24 mars 2012 - 10:38 .


#10324
ClixWizard

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I hadn't been able to post since beating the game a few days ago. I'd just like to add my voice to the chior of extremely disappointed fans.

My wife loves to sit next to me on the couch as I play video games. At the end of ME3 we both just looked at each other with confused looks and she said, "What the hell was that?"

I don't know, but it sure felt far removed from the Mass Effect games. It's like everything that I did thru three games was absolutely pointless. Choosing whether or not to kill the Rachni Queen, cure the Genophage, destroy the Collector base all felt like such hallow decisions, because in the end none of it mattered.

Sorry that I feel entitled to something better, but I do. I've dumped hundreds of hours and dollars into these games. I stood in the damn snow at midnight before a workday for this last game. And to get blind sided with this Star Child bullhunkey is rather insulting.

So in summary, I can't agree more with this man:

#10325
DarthSyphilis59

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Cheezer wrote...

eoinnx03 wrote...

Aparently they are not listening. I've heard talk about a twitter post for the official page that said that hey arn't changing endings just adding more explanation to them. This is not good. I want blue babbies.
Anyone else hear this and can confirm?


Extra explanation for an extra $10 is probably what they have planned. If they are releasing a "one more story" DLC then it's the best damn strategy ever. Who honestly wouldn't buy it, just for closure? You have to show some respect for them, because it's not like their putting a gun to your head to make you pay $10, but they are putting a gun to the head of commander shepard's story, and unless you pay the ransom,  they'll pull the trigger.:crying:


Well, if that is true and we don't get to see a showdown with harbinger, or find out that all the hints of indoctrination theory are just a product of poor writing and they don't address it and fix it, bioware has seen the last of my money.
I vote with my money!