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[Lochwood]

Thalos wrote...

cjp31 wrote...
With regards to Indoctrination Theory I honestly think it's an interpretation that mildly resembles a paranoid schizophrenic. I mean that in the sense that any bit of evidence is seized upon that may (and may NOT) support the theory and subsequently used as definitive evidence. The theory also appears to be quite closed in the sense that no single fact contained in the gameplay could ever disprove it. In fact I would be willing to be that you could find signs that Shepard is indoctrinated in any of the Mass Effect games and be able to rationalize reasons why/how this could benefit the Reapers. It seems too convenient and too motivated out of hopeful thinking. I also do not see why everyone is so convinced that Shepard HAS to be in London at the end. No concrete on the citadel? Really? Look again as that's a pretty weak argument. (Again, this is ignoring the fact that Shepard is outside without a Helmet during the Crucible sequence). Could it be true? Yep. But I have to feel that without further DEFINITIVE evidence I have to go with Occam's Razor and just put it down to inconsistent writing.
Ultimately I hope to see some clarification and maybe some additions to the endings but I don't hope for a 'happy', shots-and-high-fives ending as I think that would be missing the entire point of the series.

I agree expecially concerning the indoctrination theory. Lets not forget that said theory was thought of by the players, not suggested in any way by the producers. To me the whole indoctrination theory, plausible and elaborated and well-constructed as it is, looks like a desperate attempt to explain and somehow justify this terrible thing that is mass effect 3 ending. It is almost like the players are trying to convince themselves that this was all intentional and that this was the plan ans that there's more to it, that bioware did not really let us all down.Yea maybe it's true but unfortunately I believe that none of this was intentional, that bioware did let us down, that the ending was rushed and illconsidered, that all of what the indoctrination theory explains could just as easily be explained by saying that bioware maybe ran out of time and had to rush to meet the deadline , or that they simply did not care enough. I'm sorry everyone if I sound so negative, I still sincerely hope that bioware will be able to fix the ending but this remains the biggest disappointment I have ever had in a game.

With respect, you're likely wrong. According to reports, up until November, indoctrination was going to figure prominently into the end sequence. The player was going to physically lose control of Shepard in some way, likely during a final boss battle.  (You'll notice that after you say goodbye to Garrus that there ARE no more fights for you to "give them hell -- that's because they dropped the final boss and the indoctrination gameplay due to "unsatisfying game mechanics.")

That said, I think Shep is definitely in London at the end -- it's clearly the London textures.  Also, the Citadel breaks up and explodes in the rendered cutscene -- so if he wakes up while still on the Citadel, it's going to be a short reunion. Also, it LOOKS like London because it's not a burning metallic space ship -- and that's what Occam's razor suggests.

[xaurabh123]

Voodoo2015 wrote...

die-yng wrote...

ElMuchu wrote...

Voodoo2015 wrote...

What I want is that my choices should be of significance to the entire ME3.
All choices from the ME1, ME2 and ME3, not three choices that end up the same but different colors

For ME3 ending contradicted the whole idea of the Mass Effect series.

All synthetic life will rebel against their creators and kill all organic life.
So I created synthetic life to kill all technologically advanced organic's. Before the chaos breaks out.

Wait what, what! What did he say? All synthetic life we create will rebel against us and kill us! So the Star Child created synthetic life that will kill us before that happens. WTF!

Isn't it the same damn thing! Doomed whatever you do.

Yep, I had the same reaction: it is a nonsense

It's like that famous quote from the vietnam war, by an american officer.

"In order to save the village, we had to burn the village."

To me this has always shown the madness of war and Starchild's reasoning only reinforced my belief in the reaper's madness.
How can BW seriously think Shep would ever accept bull like that?

Yeah. The entire series can you play Renegade or Paragon.

You play as a tough guy throughout the game makes Paragon where it fits and renegade. Right up to the end where Shep is such a wimp that he accepts all that
Catalyst saying.

My Shepard would never accept it. He would say to The Catalyst to go to hell and forced The Catalyst to leave them in peace.

Or explained to The Catalyst why this need not continue, let us be and see for yourself. I got The Geth and Quarians live in peace and together. Together we can bring peace to the galaxy and throughout the space.

Why not use The Last Prothean Jarvik he want to have revenge. He and Shep may be a course up together to the citadel.

Bioware do not agree with that, Well you are given choices ,choose red green blue .
The outcome has to be on the descision we make in the entire series.
Change the ending bioware. Or you are going to loose the trust.

[cjp31]

The Gman707 wrote...

It does seem a bit of a jip that there isnt a happier ending. I would accept the destruction of the mass relays if for two things. first, what happened to sword fleet:? where are all those guys gonna go? second, why didthe normandy leave the sol system? i'm sure DLC will come up with some reason for them leaving but i'd rather they gave another option than it leaving. I dont believe that my loyal crew would leave me for any reason. I know garrus and liara wouldn't for a start

I can kind of see what you mean in some senses although I think that the ending with the destruction of the mass relays is quite apt in some ways.  That technology is what confined the development of galactic civilization along the pathways dictated by the Reapers/Star Child (whatever that thing was) and so by their destruction galactic civilization is free to begin to self-determine (one of the key themes of the series!).  Granted without the necessary information it does seem like the position that all of the fleets are in at the end of the game would be highly unfavourable (for all of the reasons stated previously) for any future.  I think that key take-home from their destruction is that it is the breaking of the cycle of the reapers as the mass relays are part and parcel of the cycle (they are the infrastructure of the cycle).  They had to go!  What replaces them?  Don't know.  How to get rid of them without destroying most of the developed solar systems? Don't know.  This is where I have issues with the ending.  I kind of understand how it couldn't be any other way.

[Thalos]

RobinEJ wrote...

Did you see it?
http://pastebin.com/znYraLnF
http://i39.tinypic.com/1gnlw2.jpg
From 4chan?

If that's true I honestly don't know what to make of the mass effect series anymore. I just wished they'd have ended it as they were supposed to, with a game that would have forever had a place in the videogames hall of fame. And instead they are planning on that? You guys remember what happened when after "the matrix" they tried to make 2 more movies? I've said enough, I just hope that's not really where this is going. 

[Angryel]

 Please, I just want answers. We have had 5 years with the commander and  we get an ending so vague, in which only the colors change no matter what choices you made and we don't even know what happens in the end with you, with your crew and with the whole universe.Is the theory of indoctrination true? Or is it a bad dream of Shepard? Please explain that clearly instead of making a video of a grandfather telling stories to his grandson in god knows where.

[cjp31]

Lochwood wrote...

Thalos wrote...

cjp31 wrote...
With regards to Indoctrination Theory I honestly think it's an interpretation that mildly resembles a paranoid schizophrenic. I mean that in the sense that any bit of evidence is seized upon that may (and may NOT) support the theory and subsequently used as definitive evidence. The theory also appears to be quite closed in the sense that no single fact contained in the gameplay could ever disprove it. In fact I would be willing to be that you could find signs that Shepard is indoctrinated in any of the Mass Effect games and be able to rationalize reasons why/how this could benefit the Reapers. It seems too convenient and too motivated out of hopeful thinking. I also do not see why everyone is so convinced that Shepard HAS to be in London at the end. No concrete on the citadel? Really? Look again as that's a pretty weak argument. (Again, this is ignoring the fact that Shepard is outside without a Helmet during the Crucible sequence). Could it be true? Yep. But I have to feel that without further DEFINITIVE evidence I have to go with Occam's Razor and just put it down to inconsistent writing.
Ultimately I hope to see some clarification and maybe some additions to the endings but I don't hope for a 'happy', shots-and-high-fives ending as I think that would be missing the entire point of the series.

I agree expecially concerning the indoctrination theory. Lets not forget that said theory was thought of by the players, not suggested in any way by the producers. To me the whole indoctrination theory, plausible and elaborated and well-constructed as it is, looks like a desperate attempt to explain and somehow justify this terrible thing that is mass effect 3 ending. It is almost like the players are trying to convince themselves that this was all intentional and that this was the plan ans that there's more to it, that bioware did not really let us all down.Yea maybe it's true but unfortunately I believe that none of this was intentional, that bioware did let us down, that the ending was rushed and illconsidered, that all of what the indoctrination theory explains could just as easily be explained by saying that bioware maybe ran out of time and had to rush to meet the deadline , or that they simply did not care enough. I'm sorry everyone if I sound so negative, I still sincerely hope that bioware will be able to fix the ending but this remains the biggest disappointment I have ever had in a game.

With respect, you're likely wrong. According to reports, up until November, indoctrination was going to figure prominently into the end sequence. The player was going to physically lose control of Shepard in some way, likely during a final boss battle.  (You'll notice that after you say goodbye to Garrus that there ARE no more fights for you to "give them hell -- that's because they dropped the final boss and the indoctrination gameplay due to "unsatisfying game mechanics.")

That said, I think Shep is definitely in London at the end -- it's clearly the London textures.  Also, the Citadel breaks up and explodes in the rendered cutscene -- so if he wakes up while still on the Citadel, it's going to be a short reunion. Also, it LOOKS like London because it's not a burning metallic space ship -- and that's what Occam's razor suggests.

Like I said, I completely see your point and I wasn't trying at all to belittle the Indoctrination Theory.  I just don't see any definitive evidence FOR it.  Yes, they had originally planned to incorporate it and subsequently abandoned it.  But that doesn't PROVE that it is there, although I will grant you it makes it more likely.  I also agree about Shepard in the rubble in some ways.  Shepard being in London does make sense.  But it may also make sense for Shepard to somehow have ended up in the wards of the Citadel.  Again, given that it's dark I don't see how a fully confident judgement can be made about whether it's Citadel or London textures.  Personally I think both fit. 

Like I said I could be wrong.  But so could the Indoctrination Theory.

[Lochwood]

cjp31 wrote...


Like I said, I completely see your point and I wasn't trying at all to belittle the Indoctrination Theory.  I just don't see any definitive evidence FOR it.  Yes, they had originally planned to incorporate it and subsequently abandoned it.  But that doesn't PROVE that it is there, although I will grant you it makes it more likely.  I also agree about Shepard in the rubble in some ways.  Shepard being in London does make sense.  But it may also make sense for Shepard to somehow have ended up in the wards of the Citadel.  Again, given that it's dark I don't see how a fully confident judgement can be made about whether it's Citadel or London textures.  Personally I think both fit. 

Like I said I could be wrong.  But so could the Indoctrination Theory.

I'm also neutral on the indoctrination theory.  It's just that I thought whoever called it "schizophrenic" was way out of line. The artists definitely put a lot of that stuff in there in support of an earlier plot outline, and that's why it exists -- not based on the players' collective delusions. Like, play the dream sequence and then look up -- look at how the trees sway just like the black indoctrination "tendrils."  Thats just there, man -- it's not wishful anything.

I guess my gut says that they abandoned that avenue, but the art assetts were so pervasive (and cool looking) that there was no way to scrub everything in the visuals and sound design.

[Xellith]

At best Indoctrination is the only way to explain the ending being as it was - that said - even IF indoctrination theory is in fact true - the game stops before you even stop the reapers. The ending message saying you stopped the reapers is an outright lie.

At worst - the writers f***ed up so bad that they ruined a trilogy.

Either way - ME3 didnt come with an actual ending. Shepard just goes to sleep.

Its retrarded.

[Mister_Tez]

RobinEJ wrote...

Did you see it?
http://pastebin.com/znYraLnF
http://i39.tinypic.com/1gnlw2.jpg
From 4chan?

Ugh. I hope that's not true.

[frankthetank4567]

I was hopeing for a true fight in some form with harbinger. it would have been nice but the game was great up until the end.

[Simodon]

RobinEJ wrote...

Did you see it?
http://pastebin.com/znYraLnF
http://i39.tinypic.com/1gnlw2.jpg
From 4chan?

if that's true... it would be awful and ****** even more people off.

[Dark_Rogue]

frankthetank4567 wrote...

I was hopeing for a true fight in some form with harbinger. it would have been nice but the game was great up until the end.

I was actually hoping for this as well, or at least fighting with TIM in a penultimate boss fight of sorts. But apparantly that was "too cliche" even though it worked for ME1 and ME2 respectively... >.>

[cjp31]

RobinEJ wrote...

Did you see it?
http://pastebin.com/znYraLnF
http://i39.tinypic.com/1gnlw2.jpg
From 4chan?

Have serious trouble believing that.  Would be crazy if true, but serious trouble believing that.

[chujwamdotego]

Simodon wrote...

RobinEJ wrote...

Did you see it?
http://pastebin.com/znYraLnF
http://i39.tinypic.com/1gnlw2.jpg
From 4chan?

if that's true... it would be awful and ****** even more people off.

You're right.

It's stupidity is beyond comprehension. And i got creeps when I read about Ash/Kaidan suicide.

[Rotherdune]

I enjoyed the game both times through.
I totally understand that the ending had to set up the next game. Hence, since the game was originally written as a trilogy, and now will be a continuing series (without Shep), it can't have the ending the writers originally had invisioned for the trilogy.
This realization doesn't get me to like the ending any more. I unstand that in the end, the practical business decisions come into play more than a good end to what was originally meant to be closed trilogy.
Thanks for what I got, I know I expected too much.
Good luck all.

[Mastone]

this is what i think should happen(or is at least better than what they came up with):
http://social.biowar...61/407#10560783

[cjp31]

Lochwood wrote...

cjp31 wrote...


Like I said, I completely see your point and I wasn't trying at all to belittle the Indoctrination Theory.  I just don't see any definitive evidence FOR it.  Yes, they had originally planned to incorporate it and subsequently abandoned it.  But that doesn't PROVE that it is there, although I will grant you it makes it more likely.  I also agree about Shepard in the rubble in some ways.  Shepard being in London does make sense.  But it may also make sense for Shepard to somehow have ended up in the wards of the Citadel.  Again, given that it's dark I don't see how a fully confident judgement can be made about whether it's Citadel or London textures.  Personally I think both fit. 

Like I said I could be wrong.  But so could the Indoctrination Theory.

I'm also neutral on the indoctrination theory.  It's just that I thought whoever called it "schizophrenic" was way out of line. The artists definitely put a lot of that stuff in there in support of an earlier plot outline, and that's why it exists -- not based on the players' collective delusions. Like, play the dream sequence and then look up -- look at how the trees sway just like the black indoctrination "tendrils."  Thats just there, man -- it's not wishful anything.

I guess my gut says that they abandoned that avenue, but the art assetts were so pervasive (and cool looking) that there was no way to scrub everything in the visuals and sound design.

Haha.  I didn't mean to accuse people of being schizophrenic.  I meant that it was like schizoprenia/paranoia in the sense that the overarching theory begins to self-justify and can never be falsified.  Those same tendrils are used to portray psychological damage, not necessarily indoctrination. 

But they are cool looking.

[Lamina]

Weeee! Seems we might get an alternative or more elaborated and less plot holey ending! http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/
 This means, I will probably end up giving the game a full 10/10! And if it gives me some closure without destroying advanced civilization as we know it in ME3.

Then I will have to play it again, and again, and again!!!! And download every scrap of DLC Bioware throws after me!!!  

[improperdancing]

Lamina wrote...

Weeee! Seems we might get an alternative or more elaborated and less plot holey ending! http://blog.bioware....012/03/21/4108/
 This means, I will probably end up giving the game a full 10/10! And if it gives me some closure without destroying advanced civilization as we know it in ME3.

Then I will have to play it again, and again, and again!!!! And download every scrap of DLC Bioware throws after me!!!  

That quote seems to say the opposite to me.  It's just him hiding behind a bunch of good review scores (from reviewers who probably either didn't finish the game before reviewing it or were paid off by EA) in an attempt to ignore that the majority of fans are unhappy.

[Mariel800]

Damn, I actually got excited for all of 30 seconds while waiting for the page to load, and then realised I'd already read that and it doesn't tell us anything. If anything, according to the Twitter feed someone posted a couple of days ago they're not going to do a thing with the current endings, and just add "clarification" and "closure" to them. >.<

All I'm saying is that if they can clarify all those plot holes and make them actually make sense - and don't use the Indoctrination theory - then I'll be very very surprised.

[ilWarden]

This was interesting: " http://www.gameranx....versial-ending/ "
And i hope it isn't true.
In any case, Casey had said in his statement: "We always intended that the scale of the conflict and the
underlying theme of sacrifice would lead to a bittersweet ending—to do
otherwise would betray the agonizing decisions Shepard had to make
along the way."
I disagree. I think Shep paid in full along the way. With the sacrifice of Kaiden(or)Ashley, the sacrifice of Legion, Thane, Mordin, Anderson, and potentially NUMEROUS others -- i think he AND the rest of the universe deserved better. The "final solutions" were far too arbitrary, and even when the best of the 3 (whichever that would be for your Shep) was chosen, all those wonderful supporting characters just seemed to be dismissed.
I saw the foreshadow of his death throughout the entire game. I was ready for it and accepted it. We always kind of suspected that it may come down to it. But the sacrifice is empty, as is the sacrifice of his former squad mates, if we can't see the surviving characters we know and love and developed those intimate relations with HAPPY AT THE END - and if not happy, then at least hopeful. Wouldn't it be grand to see the love interest chosen bearing an offspring? Or pregnant with one? (Where heterosexual. Perhaps adoptive, if homosexual?) The child could ask the mother/father? "Tell me about my father..?" I have this vision of Tali on Rannoch with a child without a mask (human/quarian hybrid), looking up at her and she rests a hand on the childs shoulder, and smiles. Instead of that anonymous child/grandfather combo at the end.
Casey says that it would be a betrayal if the ending wasn't bittersweet. The whole game was bittersweet. The ending should wrap that up. Give hope. We had our asses kicked by the Reapers, now let's see us overcoming that. Bouncing back. Life returning. Give us the reward for the heartache. The series to me has always been about overcoming in the face of overwhelming adversity. Giving you the chance (however slim) to make it through. That even when things were a "SUICIDE MISSION", you could still potentially make it out relatively unscathed. And if not you -- then at least what's left of your team. Shep paid the blood price time and again. At the end, we shouldn't have more death. Give us some reward for all our efforts. Our patience. Our enduring the loss of such beloved characters. This remains a work of fantasy. Of science fiction. If we wanted harsh reality in our escapism, it wouldn't really be escapism. 
Here's some ideas i had (And of course, they're choice-specific from the games, and this could be tweaked based on your play-style, and options):
Show Wrex on Tuchanka with a litter of lil Grunts. Or calling "Morrrdinnn!" and a little wrex-let come running up to him. Show Tali on Rannoch in a Quarian settlement with the Geth helping reconstruct.  Show Garrus at the bar with James, toasting to Shepard. Show Miranda with Ori, at peace perhaps at a monument to the battle. Show Liara and Glyph in the lair of the shadowbroker working hard as always, but maybe pan to a portrait of Shep just off to the side. Show Joker and EDI still flying out there amongst the stars, still working on their budding romance. Show that Shep bought all of these people the future they so valiantly struggled for. The scenes don't have to be long. A few seconds a piece, with the in-game engine. They could even be silent, and set to a portion of the score that already exists.
But this of course can only happen if we have an ending that lets these people get out alive.
That's what i want. Shep can sacrifice himself (or not, because that would be renegade/paragon moment at its finest. Being selfish and doing only what will secure you what you want, or sacrificing to save the masses) , but i want that sacrifice to mean something grander. Someone else here said Shep could broker a peace between Quarian and Geth -- why can't he convince the Catalyst of a better way than what we had to chose from?
I'm going to go write my own ME3 ending for my Shep (95% Paragon, romanced Liara in #1, Tali in #2 & #3, saved Quarian/Geth, got almost every asset, and took tons of time to get to know his crew in each game). If anyone cares to read it, let me know.

[CirusTheVirus666]

Sareth Cousland wrote...
Take your time to improve on the ending. Provide a full-scale expansion if desired.

This please, i am sure everyone would be willing to wait 2-4 months for an actual ending. Just announce something at PAX so we can rest easy and anticipate the ending.  You have created an amazing universe, we just want closure to our shepards 

[EnforcerWRX7]

cjp31 wrote...

RobinEJ wrote...

Did you see it?
http://pastebin.com/znYraLnF
http://i39.tinypic.com/1gnlw2.jpg
From 4chan?

Have serious trouble believing that.  Would be crazy if true, but serious trouble believing that.

Same here.


I think it is probably an elaborate hoax, but if its true...then I'm done.  

This is the worst story telling I have ever seen in a video game.  It may even be worse than the silly final fantasy story lines.


Disjointed, non-sensical plot developments deserve none of my time and money.  

[improperdancing]

ilWarden wrote...

This was interesting: " http://www.gameranx....versial-ending/ "
And i hope it isn't true.

I hope it is true, because it's the only thing that explains Mass Effect 3's travesty of an ending.