23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Jade5233]

Im wi Sage on this:

sagequeen wrote...

 One of the things I have seen over and over is this idea that the game was supposed to 'be about sacrifice.' And that's why the ending had to have Shepard die.

But, here's my thinking on that:

If you sacrifice Shepard - especially if you force that on the player - then, frankly, you just sacrificed the audience and everything they've worked for. A forced sacrificial ending like that negates whatever went before.

At one point, my hubby and I were comparing notes. He lost the Hanar homeworld, I didn't, because I had Kasumi to save the day. The game had a different consequence for me because I'd invested in it. That felt right and good. But here's the thing: I could take an import in which I'd played every corner of ME1 and ME2 and all the DLC and saved every life it was possible to save (and, in fact, that's what I had). I could play that character through the game and unite the galaxy and pull off a 5000+ EMS rating... and in the end, virtually the same thing happened to me (um, death and sacrifice and a bizarre ending cut scene) as what happened to a buddy who borrowed the game from a friend, never played the first 2 games, didn't do half the side missions, and had no clue what was going on and just picked the StarChild color he liked best.

While it may be 'realistic' that the prepared, dedicated soldier is just as likely to die as the guy who has no clue what's going on, we play videogames like this because, frankly, they reward us for having played. If we worked out that mission, if we saved that squaddie, if we were there for that DLC, then hey, it should count for something. The ending of Shepard's bizzare forced sacrifice negates all those choices because they don't carry over into anything at all.

So in the end, what gets sacrificed is not just Shepard - it's all the time and effort I spent playing the rest of the series. Helping Kasumi didn't really count for anything, playing the first game didn't count for anything - all that time and money spent didn't count for anything. 

I suppose that sort of sacrifice might be deemed necessary at the end of a series, but I can't help thinking it was a very foolish move. If nothing I did can keep Shepard alive, then I have to wonder why I played the games.

I have to wonder why I'd play more such games in the future.

[TheRealMithril]

I have yet to see anyone picking up that the kid with the stargazer is the same one as the Starchild. (same voice)

Modifié par TheRealMithril, 25 mars 2012 - 10:21 .

[Cross429]

TheRealMithril wrote...

I don't see a problem with a happy 'lame' ending if that is what players want. All BioWare needs to do, is to make it clear that the bittersweet ending is what they consider canon.

Lame is what we got. Happy and lame is it's equivalent.

If IT is correct, well done Bioware for sparking discussion, and probably raising gaming to a new level of storytelling: now part deux must honor the three games rather than dismiss them. I have faith that this was the plan.

If IT is not correct, I'd welcome a bittersweet ending, or any real ending at all. A guy who plays multiplayer to 100% GR, never played any previous games, and made random decisions throughout ME3 gets the same ending as I do, as it stands.

I don't see how you can possibly consider that acceptable if you're a ME fan.

Canon is not an ending that disregards choice and consequence throughout the entire series.

[luci90]

TheRealMithril wrote...




I have yet to see anyone picking up that the kid with the stargazer is the same one as the Starchild. (same voice)

I don't really think that ties into anything though.

[Omnike]

luci90 wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...





I have yet to see anyone picking up that the kid with the stargazer is the same one as the Starchild. (same voice)

I don't really think that ties into anything though.

Yeah, even if it is the case, it doesn't really change anything.

[jeweledleah]

I'm still trying to see the sweet in the ending we got. relays are destroyed, alliances were all for nothing, galactic fleet along with some key persons is stuck in Sol system that I cannot possibly see supporting all these folks, the Normandy is stuck on some uninhabited planet.. we kinda finished the reapers job for them. and in case of control and merge? we didn't even get them out of the picture. they are still around. they can still come back. and the galaxy will be even more defensless. hell, they can restart the whole damn cycle. after all - they ARE eternal, so they don't have to worry about all that time spent rebuilding their infrastructure.

but Shepard controlling them, you say... Shepard is dead. in control ending, whatever becomes the catalyst? its no longer Shepard. in merge? Shepard is definitely dead. and with destroy ending, the only definitively "no more cycles" ending? this civilization is still gone. out with the old - in with the new. no. I was not looking forward to destroying the world I fell in love with.

and I can see no sweetness in it. even with that "Shepard breathes" clip. ESPECIALY with that clip.

[k-stigus]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Boils down to boohoo Shepard dies.....

That's definitely not why people are disapointed (to say the least)

Espically when shepard's technically alive in the destroy version of the ending

[Omnike]

jeweledleah wrote...

I'm still trying to see the sweet in the ending we got. relays are destroyed, alliances were all for nothing, galactic fleet along with some key persons is stuck in Sol system that I cannot possibly see supporting all these folks, the Normandy is stuck on some uninhabited planet.. we kinda finished the reapers job for them. and in case of control and merge? we didn't even get them out of the picture. they are still around. they can still come back. and the galaxy will be even more defensless. hell, they can restart the whole damn cycle. after all - they ARE eternal, so they don't have to worry about all that time spent rebuilding their infrastructure.

but Shepard controlling them, you say... Shepard is dead. in control ending, whatever becomes the catalyst? its no longer Shepard. in merge? Shepard is definitely dead. and with destroy ending, the only definitively "no more cycles" ending? this civilization is still gone. out with the old - in with the new. no. I was not looking forward to destroying the world I fell in love with.

and I can see no sweetness in it. even with that "Shepard breathes" clip. ESPECIALY with that clip.

Exactly. I think the whole thing was silly. Wasn't the synthesis ending supposedly the good endng? The one that made the less sense? The whole thing was just an ending with more plot holes than swiss cheese.

By the way, your new avatar threw me off. You should give us warning 

[MoldySpore]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening. Active discussions about the ending are more than welcome here, and the team will be reviewing it for feedback and responding when we can. Please note, we want to give people time to experience the game so while we can’t get into specifics right now, we will be able to address some of your questions once more people have had time to complete the game. In the meantime, we’d like to ask that you keep the non-spoiler areas of our forums and our social media channels spoiler free.
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

If that tweet that got posted a day ago saying there is only going to be clarification of the current ending, why are you bothering to "listen" to any suggestions? Unless there is going to be NEW endings or complete changes, saying you are listening to us is worthless, since what the majority of us want are a new ending or endings (plural!)

[SuperClutch16]

I think, despite the controversy of the endings, Bioware has an optimal chance to redeem themselves. The Indoctrination theory that has been circulating around as of late is actually a brilliant place to pickup where Mass Effect 3 ended. Granted, Bioware should have provided us, the dedicated gamers who have followed the story over several years, with the multiple endings that were promised. But, combining the Indoctrination theory with the less than grandiose A, B, C endings allows the writers at Bioware to expand and elaborate on what actually happened when you -Shepard- was hit with Harbinger's plasma cannon. Personally, I want an ending where I live happily ever after with my love interest; I chose Tali, so I believe an acceptable ending would be where Shepard returns to Rannoch and builds Tali a house...and possibly have Human/Quarian hybrid children hahah.

In addition, I believe that the "cliche" endings of happily ever after is actually a more accurate representation of what courage achieves. Understandably, happily ever after is not always the outcome of said situation. However, then again, Mass Effect has always been about our choices, our outcomes, and our mistakes.

"Every art and every inquiry, and similarly every action and choice, is thought to aim at some good; and for this reason the good has rightly been declared to be that at which all things aim."-Aristotle

"Every man builds his world in his own image." -Ayn Rand

[TheRealMithril]

luci90 wrote...

TheRealMithril wrote...

I have yet to see anyone picking up that the kid with the stargazer is the same one as the Starchild. (same voice)

I don't really think that ties into anything though.

Maybe, could explain 'the shepard' though. As that is a synthetic like statement. Along the lines of 'does this unit have a soul?' If you get what I mean?

[Dracian]

OK, BW wants my opinion about the game : Amazing but...

Explanations :

- Graphics are really nice. It's not the state of the art, but it is really beautiful. But : custom Shepards are ugly, compared to default ones (I'll pass on the error when trying to import a custom face from previous episodes).

- Action/gameplay was intense, even on Normal difficulty and this was really good. But : Engineer is now the best class in every situation. OK, it was already one of the strongest classes in ME1 and 2, but now, they have absolutely no flaw. Compared to that, soldiers are weak... Balance problem, so.

- Cinematics/dialogs were... pffff, what's the exact word ? Astonishing ? Wonderful ? Perfect ? I am not ashamed to say I almost cried when I saw Mordin sacrificed himself, when Legion sacrificed himself, when Liara presented her Time Capsule... And punching Han'Gerrel... Didn't cry, but laughed a lot (just like head-butting Gatatog Uvenk in ME2). But, you guys should really watch "local" dubs. French ones are disgusting, while they were really nice in the previous episodes (except for male Shepard, really annoying)

- Sound/Music. Here I have a problem. Not about the sound quality (excellent, even if there were not enough original content), but about the mastering : sound effects are way too loud while dialogs are sometimes too low.

- Multiplayer : fun to play, really, however, I question myself : how would we be able to increase our galatic readiness when MP will be deserted ? And also, the six maps are nice, but some more would be great.

- Story : this is where you screwed everything. During my first playthrough, everything was fine until... well, you know, until you got shot by Harbinger. There, I was wondering myself : is it a Critical Mission Failure or is it really the end ? Where the big bad guy (AKA the final boss) ? Where's the fight against Harbinger ? I want to ask for an air strike against him, and when he will agonise, tell him : "Evolution cannot be stopped, (add harsh language here), we are limitless !", and then, BANG ! In your face, you SOB ! But no. Nothing happened. Only a surrealistic dialog with Saren... err, no, TIM. Saren, it's in the first episode. But, wait. did you made some kind of copy/pasta of the final dialog with Saren ? No ? Are you sure ? OK, BANG TIM, got what he deserved (even if we don't know how and why he got indoctrinated... Did I say plothole ?). And then, the final scene. And it was : What ? All of this for THAT ? I mean, the whole trilogy (roughly 120 hours as I'm a completionnist) for that final choice ? Are you kidding me ? I can understand that Shepard's death may be unavoidable, I can understand that defeating the Reapers might cause the destruction of the Citadel and the Mass Relays, I can understand that, in a war, even after victory, there is no real happy end. What I can't understand is why my whole playthrough doesn't influence the ending. I am not asking for a free choice, I am asking for an ending which is logical for my Shepard. I don't care if I don't have the choice of my ending because we all have the opportunity to make our choices during the whole story. Now, we face the consequences. A ruthless bastard will see the Reapers destroyed now and to the last with enormous casualties (especialy in his crew) while a knight-in-shining-armor will see the Reapers destroyed after a longer time but with less casualties (the only one could be him/her, sacrificing him/herself to prevent too many innocent deaths). With the ending you made you only made me feel that all our choices are only "for stats". Save the Rachni Queen ? 25 Paragon, XXX War Assets. Sacrificing the council ? 25 Renegade, XXX War Assets. The list goes on and on...

(Pause as I don't want to do a granit block)

And this is also where you screwed everything : the choices. Where, in ME3, are the consequences of the choices we made in ME1 and ME2 ? War Asset terminal. OK, characters are changing depending on their survival or not, but where are the great differences you promised ? I'll take two examples : the Rachni Queen and the Quarians. I think everyone will know what I'm talking about. It was not hard to guess that Rachnis, if you let her Queen survive, could become strong allies, but with the strong risk that they could be indoctrinated in the future (meaning you'd have to fight some in ME3). No problem with that. Now, Shepard chooses to kill the Rachni Queen in ME1. He won't have Rachni allies, but he won't have to fight indoctrinated ones in ME3. And then, what happens ? The "Arrival Syndrome". What is the Arrival Syndrome ? Simple, you make a choice, but, whichever it was, it has no effect. Nothing happens except what Bioware wanted. So, what happens if you kill the Rachni Queen ? Nothing, Bioware managed to clone her and indoctrinate their creation so that you'll have to fight Ravagers (because Ravagers are cool, you know). And it the same with the Quarians. You encouraged Quarians to make peace ? They'll go on war ? You encouraged them to go on war ? They'll go on war too. Arrival Syndrome. The only notable exception is Wrex and the Genophage data. However, it is still not what I expected. I mean curing a mass illness in a week ? I know Salarians are geniouses, but there, it is too much.

So, finally, what is ME3, a cool shooter, with great cinematics, but graphics a little under the top games. But it is no more a RPG-action game. It is an action game. Period. Now I understand why the Action mode.

Even if I am an optimistic, I feat that no DLC will ever change that. Too bad. The two first episodes were really nice.

[varnol]

Omnike wrote...

So... you're not questioning space magic? Or that somehow The Normandy had time to pick up the two guys next to you but not your Shepard? Why did he leave him burning on the ground? And then why did he run? How did Anderson get to the console before you did if there is only one way up? You're okay with the fact that the Reapers becamse small, mindless pawns to some VI that somehow managed to take the shape of the child you hardly knew? You were okay with being TOLD what would happen and not SHOWN? You were okay with the fact that you got the same ending as the guy who rushed through the game in a few hours and didn't do any side missions? There is so much wrong with the ending that it's nearly impossible for me and the many other like-minded folks here to be even slightly okay with this ending.

I believe the space magic was explained on this very forum before. (http://social.biowar.../index/10254374)
Even If it weren't,  I would have come up with my own explanation to EVERYTHING I've seen in game so far, because, well, it's space fiction. Not even strictly Sci-fiction.  I actually sort of disliked that part in ME when reapers were first introduced as a force which came from beyond to HARVEST  - I would prefer something less epic t the time BUT, as I adapted to the consept, I started to enjoy it. So it's either I have good imagination, or some other people have problems with it. You know, there are hundreeds of ''this wouldn't work' moments in ME series you can pick at, (especially If you know a bit of biology or physics...) but none of them are unexplainable if you put your mind to it.

So there - first of all, I don't remember seing the characters I took along with me on that last mission (James and Javik) in the final movie, so naturally I assumed they were not on board. If that was not the case, then suppose the normandy picked up everyone who did not make it INTO the beam. Sheppard and Anderson were the only ones that did.  Next - Anderson said that the walls were rearranging, but really, this is such a nitpick. You wouldn't notice that on your own, admit it. Well, maybe you would, but thousands of other  fans wouldn't. This is the kind of minor glitches that  happen in movies and games all the time. You're just ruining your own pleasure picking at this insignificant detail.

I am ok with the fact that reapers are - to an extent - managed by VI. Why not? The actual shape it took - was irrelevant. In fact, you can barely make out his shape. So, the commander was seriously hurt, so, his mind perceived this vague form as similar to a child he still regrets he couldn't save... Irrelevant. What matters is that it managed to communicate with Shep and explain the important part - the cycle is broken and a sapient being is needed to find _new solution_ Sheppard being that solutions PLEASES me. What I see in synthesis is - what my character was all about all those years. Thus i felt catharsis in the end. The sheer emotional release was so powerful... I felt fulfilled. Like in the end of BG TOB  trilogy where your character  becomes the Lord of Murder.

And that makes me wonder where have you guys been at that moment? Drawing the schematics for a room with the console? "Aw, man, this doesn't connect well at all!" Was that  what you were thinking?

I'm COMPLETELY ok with being told and not shown - that is why I read books and play games and don't like movies all that much. Letters leave space for imagination.

I am okay with "getting the same ending as that other guy..." because I know for sure that "that guy" did not receive what I have. It's not in pictures, its not even in letters, it's in you brain. When you invest emotions in your fantasy, it drives you. When you just watch things happening on your screen... You're waisting your time. You know, with this kind of games it's like a relationship - it becomes what you see of it. When you really love somebody s/he becomes the universe. It's not something a slide-show can give or take.

Modifié par varnol, 25 mars 2012 - 10:47 .

[Kryptoniangamer]

These endings make me think Bioware was sipping the Lionhead Studios koolaid. Endings were too for lack of a better word, Fable-ish. I want my promised endings and not rushed garbage ( THANKS EA).

Side note, check this out.


“The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented,” Dr Muzyka said on a BioWare blog.

“I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations.”

Dr Muzyka said game creator Casey Hudson was working on the changes in addition to the company’s planned game upgrades, and fans would hear more on this in April.

“Rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue,” he said.


Two points, I do not care how painful it was for you to receive negative feedback. The game had a lot of issues, was not the great game until the ending like some said, but thats another issue. The endings sucked. We were lied to and it is painful for me to see what I shelled out money wise for this garbage and the pain of knowing hundreds of hours of my life devoted to the games and books were for NOTHING.

Second point, unless you pull more of your space magic garbage out of your rear, if you played Arrival and with those endings, how in the bloody HELL can your Mass Effect journey continue. Galactic Race slumber parties on the Moon or something?

[TheRealMithril]

The child is not real. Indoctrination or not, nobody ever sees that kid. The child symbolizes Shepard crumbling under pressure. This happens to people in real life as well. My uncles wife is going through that very thing. Seeing imaginary creatures and people in daylight. Real scary stuff, I can promise you.

[bossmonkeykj]

I am now utterly convinced that the indoctrination theory is true. Some people say that it would've been better to provide the true ending at release, rather than having us wait for it via DLC. I disagree. If this is indeed a false ending, this is an ingenious move. They now have us debating, internalizing, and digesting the ending much more than we would have had they just fed it to us. The trick is happening DIRECTLY TO US, not just to Shepard. I see this as groundbreaking storytelling that only the medium of video games could possibly deliver. Well done, Bioware, on pushing the boundaries of gaming.

Modifié par bossmonkeykj, 25 mars 2012 - 10:47 .

[Kungfu Nando]

 Well said sagequeen!

I was the first out of my friends to beat the game as I was doing my "rushed renegade, probably gonna fail" play through and was shocked to see that not only is it now pointless to complete the game as my paragon ( i still will.. I just won't subject myself to the ending unless I get an alternative one paid or free), but that other than my enjoyment playing the other 2, doing extra DLC and the many hours tweaking my game are now almost wasted. Many of my friends feel the same way. I have friends like myself who have 6-9 playthroughs, I have ones that have 1-3, and even one friend that just picked up 3 because they liked the demo. All of them even the one who never played 1 and 2 felt cheated. The friend that did only ME3 was even more angry than one of my friends that played since 2 ( he was on ps3), saying he was glad he never tried 1 and 2 and was considering it before he beat the game.

I had one friend who leveled up every class to 20 on MP over the +25% exp weekend just to promote them into SP and get the best ending. Unfortunately I was on the mic when he beat it.. twice just to make sure he "made the right choice" or didn't miss anything. For two hours he was slient then all I heard was... "I feel like.... I 've just been kicked in the teeth..."

Please BiowareI'm not so foolish as to ask for an changed ending to the ones we have. Keep your artistic ideals. All I'm asking on behalf of my friends and I and all those yet to beat the game is to give us some ALTERNATE endings, where our choices and EMS actually matter and determine our success. One with an ending we can make sense of and be proud to have achieved, and I'm not asking for it free either, I'm not so naive. I know of atleast 10 people that would GLADLY pay for even just 3-4 alternate endings (Fail,ok,good and perfect) where your choices, readiness and alliances matter and there are bound to be many more.

Modifié par Kungfu Nando, 25 mars 2012 - 10:52 .

[varnol]

SuperClutch16 wrote...
In addition, I believe that the "cliche" endings of happily ever after is actually a more accurate representation of what courage achieves.

See, people are different. "Lived happily ever after" would cheapen... Everything. People like Sheppard don't - can't" "live happily ever afte"r. They either die or... Transcend in some way.

[bossmonkeykj]

varnol wrote...

SuperClutch16 wrote...
In addition, I believe that the "cliche" endings of happily ever after is actually a more accurate representation of what courage achieves.

See, people are different. "Lived happily ever after" would cheapen... Everything. People like Sheppard don't - can't" "live happily ever afte"r. They either die or... Transcend in some way.

Agreed!  Without happily after, Shepard's not just a hero, but a legend.  He sacrificed his own happiness for all future generations.

[Dracian]

bossmonkeykj wrote...

I am now utterly convinced that the indoctrination theory is true. Some people say that it would've been better to provide the true ending at release, rather than having us wait for it via DLC. I disagree. If this is indeed a false ending, this is an ingenious move. They now have us debating, internalizing, and digesting the ending much more than we would have had they just fed it to us. The trick is happening DIRECTLY TO US, not just to Shepard. I see this as groundbreaking storytelling that only the medium of video games could possibly deliver. Well done, Bioware, on pushing the boundaries of gaming.

Are you serious ? I mean, are you really serious ? The dream/halluciantion/indoctrination theory is perhaps the worst ending for a story. Used to death as it is the easiest way to explain plot holes. Imagine : Jurassic Park is a dream, Terminators are hallucinations, The Matrix is inside a Matrix. How can you possibily say that this is a good ending ?

And, even if it was a false ending, I don't understand why the real ending is not in the original game... No, forget what I said, $10 for the real ending DLC. Yep, that's a good reason.

[TheRealMithril]

Me flipping the computer power switch, right after harbinger hits Shepard; is the best ending ever.

[bossmonkeykj]

Dracian wrote...

bossmonkeykj wrote...

I am now utterly convinced that the indoctrination theory is true. Some people say that it would've been better to provide the true ending at release, rather than having us wait for it via DLC. I disagree. If this is indeed a false ending, this is an ingenious move. They now have us debating, internalizing, and digesting the ending much more than we would have had they just fed it to us. The trick is happening DIRECTLY TO US, not just to Shepard. I see this as groundbreaking storytelling that only the medium of video games could possibly deliver. Well done, Bioware, on pushing the boundaries of gaming.

Are you serious ? I mean, are you really serious ? The dream/halluciantion/indoctrination theory is perhaps the worst ending for a story. Used to death as it is the easiest way to explain plot holes. Imagine : Jurassic Park is a dream, Terminators are hallucinations, The Matrix is inside a Matrix. How can you possibily say that this is a good ending ?

And, even if it was a false ending, I don't understand why the real ending is not in the original game... No, forget what I said, $10 for the real ending DLC. Yep, that's a good reason.

I agree, without a REAL ending, a dream ending is lame as hell.  And I have a bit more faith than to think that they would charge for when the real ending comes out.  I told you why the real ending is not in the original game - and why it's better that it wasn't.

[jeweledleah]

varnol wrote...

SuperClutch16 wrote...
In addition, I believe that the "cliche" endings of happily ever after is actually a more accurate representation of what courage achieves.

See, people are different. "Lived happily ever after" would cheapen... Everything. People like Sheppard don't - can't" "live happily ever afte"r. They either die or... Transcend in some way.

how in a world would it cheapen anything? I honestly don't understand this line of thought.

[bryceax]

Chris Priestly wrote...
Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't

The insinuation that anyone loved the ending is a bit insulting.

[EmGo]

bryceax wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...
Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't

The insinuation that anyone loved the ending is a bit insulting.