23455 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

bossmonkeykj wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Varnol and boosmonkey. I don't understand how your minds work. I cannot relate. at all. I do not see it your way, I do not see the point of making an idol out of man and i do not understand why a hero cannot be seen as hero by later generations and still live normal life past their heroic deeds. I don't understand why it has to be mutually exclusive and I don't understand how its romantic.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your age, but I have outgrown these notions of "romance" and tragic heroes and idolization for a long time now.

it's literary, and human.  age doesn't matter - otherwise adults wouldn't find the bible itself so inspiring.
And if it takes a number to encourage you to respect what I have to say rather than the content of my words, I am 30.

no the number doesn't matter, which is why I didn't want to make assumption about your age.  and what's human, wanting to idolize.  I suppose, concidering how people view celebrities.  i still don't understand the point of it or appeal of it.

[Omnike]

bossmonkeykj wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Varnol and boosmonkey. I don't understand how your minds work. I cannot relate. at all. I do not see it your way, I do not see the point of making an idol out of man and i do not understand why a hero cannot be seen as hero by later generations and still live normal life past their heroic deeds. I don't understand why it has to be mutually exclusive and I don't understand how its romantic.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your age, but I have outgrown these notions of "romance" and tragic heroes and idolization for a long time now.

it's literary, and human.  age doesn't matter - otherwise adults wouldn't find the bible itself so inspiring.  It's not idolizing - it's the romance of the story.  I don't WANT TO BE shepard.
And if it takes a number to encourage you to respect what I have to say rather than the content of my words, I am 30.

I'd say it's the opposite. I think it's human to want these characters to live and prosper. When you're buddy gets shipped off to war you say "Come home" not "Die a hero". That example may be a bit extreme in comparison, but my point is that I think it's human to want Shepard to survive, especially if you've put the work in to make sure he did. I'm not saying he has to. Even if he did die in a better ending, I would not be upset by it. But I do think it's human to want him to live.

[olly_ryles]

Ok. After finally completing the game...yes after all this time. I'm going to share some thoughts. First off I loved playing the game itself. It ticked the boxes for me, drama, lots of missions, nice build up. And I think it ending has been constructed well and... yes, is nice as an artistic expression - i just wished it hadn't been the ending to the Mass Effect series I know and loved. Where did it come from? Where is the continuity from the gameplay to the ending/ non ending. How am I meant to play DLC? after this conclusion

Why has my game suddenly been reduced a story told to a little child. I appreciate bioware for developing a game that invited me to invest so much time, energy and passion... it's a milestone, it really is. But to take that investment from me and inject it into some story elements that only appear in the ending of the game - that I have no control over leaves me feeling disconnected to the gameplay.

I'm sure the bioware team must be proud of the game they have made including the endings. but when it boils down to it it just feels like a big new shiny ending idea was poorly grafted onto a well crafted franchise.

[Calaveth]

terrarone wrote...

I have a ton of favorite moments. One of them is in Mass Effect 2 during the Jack recruitment mission. You get to the prison and, upon being asked to relinquish his/her weapons, Shepard can respond by drawing his gun and saying "I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?"

And that is the kind of fourth option that was lacking in the ending. I would have liked seeing both a paragon and a renegade option flashing at that point, to let us really end it in a way fitting to how we had played our characters up to that point. In the end, Shepard went from a hero to a victim who accepted the voice of the reapers as gospel. It just was not in character.

[bossmonkeykj]

jeweledleah wrote...

bossmonkeykj wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Varnol and boosmonkey. I don't understand how your minds work. I cannot relate. at all. I do not see it your way, I do not see the point of making an idol out of man and i do not understand why a hero cannot be seen as hero by later generations and still live normal life past their heroic deeds. I don't understand why it has to be mutually exclusive and I don't understand how its romantic.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your age, but I have outgrown these notions of "romance" and tragic heroes and idolization for a long time now.

it's literary, and human.  age doesn't matter - otherwise adults wouldn't find the bible itself so inspiring.
And if it takes a number to encourage you to respect what I have to say rather than the content of my words, I am 30.

no the number doesn't matter, which is why I didn't want to make assumption about your age.  and what's human, wanting to idolize.  I suppose, concidering how people view celebrities.  i still don't understand the point of it or appeal of it.

I edited my message after you saw it, but I stated, just to be clear - it's not idolizing.  I don't want to be like shepard.  the martyr theme is a romantic one, as a story.  It just becomes a more potent story of self sacrifice.

[bossmonkeykj]

Omnike wrote...

bossmonkeykj wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Varnol and boosmonkey. I don't understand how your minds work. I cannot relate. at all. I do not see it your way, I do not see the point of making an idol out of man and i do not understand why a hero cannot be seen as hero by later generations and still live normal life past their heroic deeds. I don't understand why it has to be mutually exclusive and I don't understand how its romantic.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your age, but I have outgrown these notions of "romance" and tragic heroes and idolization for a long time now.

it's literary, and human.  age doesn't matter - otherwise adults wouldn't find the bible itself so inspiring.  It's not idolizing - it's the romance of the story.  I don't WANT TO BE shepard.
And if it takes a number to encourage you to respect what I have to say rather than the content of my words, I am 30.

I'd say it's the opposite. I think it's human to want these characters to live and prosper. When you're buddy gets shipped off to war you say "Come home" not "Die a hero". That example may be a bit extreme in comparison, but my point is that I think it's human to want Shepard to survive, especially if you've put the work in to make sure he did. I'm not saying he has to. Even if he did die in a better ending, I would not be upset by it. But I do think it's human to want him to live.

well yeah, obviously if this was real, I wouldn't be disappointed to hear that the man who won the wore didn't die in it.  as far as a story goes, though, it fits better.

[lnccplbunbun]

I've never been a big fan of the indoctrination theory. I mean, these aren't the options of a mind reaching for explanations, these are the choices you give when you're completely screwing with someone.

Destroy: you're told by the leader of the enemy forces, effectively, "Oh please don't shoot up the weapon you've spent all your resources building because we'll all totally die if you do that. We'd really hate that."

Control: "Grab these open power conduits we'll all be your servants."

Synthesis: "Jump off this platform into a power stream and every being in the universe will have glowing green veins and live in harmony."

You can almost hear starchild fighting back the laughter as he tells Shepard these options. This is how you treat someone when you've totally won and are just screwing around with them.

Really, for all three of the options, the conclusion should be starchild laughing and saying, "Dang, I totally bet Harbinger 20 credits that you wouldn't be stupid enough to believe that."

[Omnike]

bossmonkeykj wrote...

Omnike wrote...

bossmonkeykj wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Varnol and boosmonkey. I don't understand how your minds work. I cannot relate. at all. I do not see it your way, I do not see the point of making an idol out of man and i do not understand why a hero cannot be seen as hero by later generations and still live normal life past their heroic deeds. I don't understand why it has to be mutually exclusive and I don't understand how its romantic.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your age, but I have outgrown these notions of "romance" and tragic heroes and idolization for a long time now.

it's literary, and human.  age doesn't matter - otherwise adults wouldn't find the bible itself so inspiring.  It's not idolizing - it's the romance of the story.  I don't WANT TO BE shepard.
And if it takes a number to encourage you to respect what I have to say rather than the content of my words, I am 30.

I'd say it's the opposite. I think it's human to want these characters to live and prosper. When you're buddy gets shipped off to war you say "Come home" not "Die a hero". That example may be a bit extreme in comparison, but my point is that I think it's human to want Shepard to survive, especially if you've put the work in to make sure he did. I'm not saying he has to. Even if he did die in a better ending, I would not be upset by it. But I do think it's human to want him to live.

well yeah, obviously if this was real, I wouldn't be disappointed to hear that the man who won the wore didn't die in it.  as far as a story goes, though, it fits better.

Maybe. As far as Mass Effect goes though, they should have been able to make multiple, vastly different endings that all fit well with our own storyline that we shaped. Especially with the promise of 16 different endings. I'm sure death to Shepard may have fit at least one person's playthrough, where as him living as well as any other would fit another one.

[bryceax]

bossmonkeykj wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Varnol and boosmonkey. I don't understand how your minds work. I cannot relate. at all. I do not see it your way, I do not see the point of making an idol out of man and i do not understand why a hero cannot be seen as hero by later generations and still live normal life past their heroic deeds. I don't understand why it has to be mutually exclusive and I don't understand how its romantic.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your age, but I have outgrown these notions of "romance" and tragic heroes and idolization for a long time now.

it's literary, and human.  age doesn't matter - otherwise adults wouldn't find the bible itself so inspiring.
And if it takes a number to encourage you to respect what I have to say rather than the content of my words, I am 30.

That's a terrible argument. Just because some people find the Bible inspiring (others find it repugnat) doesn't mean that's the only way to do it.  Both bittersweet and happy endings can inspire and move.  This is EXACTLY what ME3 should've done:  had different endings based on player choice.  Some could sacrifice their Shepard to stop the reapers and others could have enjoyed the 'walk into the sunset' they feel their Shepard deserves.

[varnol]

Lochwood wrote...

You may have spent hours with the games, but I don't think you've spent hours thinking about the internal rules of the technology and physics as they're presented in the games' many codex entries. They spent a HUGE amount of time working out and explaining how the discovery of eezo and mass effect fields fueled the development of society and the corresponding constraints -- and at the last second they resort to having an all powerful God show up LITERALLY in the last five minutes, and then bail the main character out of the dire situation with MAGIC.

I've read the codex through and through, it's just that - I like old  sci-fi because... You never knew, you couldn't predict the ending. It would often be non-sensical, yet inspiering. Think about Solaris, for example.

It's not like the soap operas of today, when you know all the rules. Something just happens - and you just stay there in awe, because the universe is suddenly much bigger and much  stranger place than you thought just a moment ago. Its a new concept in todays entertainment - but a good one. People need to be in awe once in  while. You can not downgrade this to table-top game rules. Even those are easily broken when the GM decides so.

Well, the execution of the concept could have been better in this example, I'd admit.  But I expect FANS should be a little bit more forgiving. And I guess some of us are. The, uh, younger and less prepared in sci-fi experience are not.


I know that I loved the ending because the idea of synthesis - and Shepard becoming part of it - as a whole - was something that I was prepared for, his strictly paragon approach was actually leading towards this all along -  thus  it satisfied me fully .

Instead of repeating what others have said,  think- honestly- why you personally didn't like the ending. On the emotional level.  I could never understand how a plothole - even gaping wide plothole can possibly ruin the RPG expirience - however far CRPGs might be from that. You either go along for a ride, or you back away and start looking for an exit - anything that can break the immersion for the sole reason that YOU DON'T LIKE where it's going.

[bossmonkeykj]

Omnike wrote...

bossmonkeykj wrote...

Omnike wrote...

bossmonkeykj wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Varnol and boosmonkey. I don't understand how your minds work. I cannot relate. at all. I do not see it your way, I do not see the point of making an idol out of man and i do not understand why a hero cannot be seen as hero by later generations and still live normal life past their heroic deeds. I don't understand why it has to be mutually exclusive and I don't understand how its romantic.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your age, but I have outgrown these notions of "romance" and tragic heroes and idolization for a long time now.

it's literary, and human.  age doesn't matter - otherwise adults wouldn't find the bible itself so inspiring.  It's not idolizing - it's the romance of the story.  I don't WANT TO BE shepard.
And if it takes a number to encourage you to respect what I have to say rather than the content of my words, I am 30.

I'd say it's the opposite. I think it's human to want these characters to live and prosper. When you're buddy gets shipped off to war you say "Come home" not "Die a hero". That example may be a bit extreme in comparison, but my point is that I think it's human to want Shepard to survive, especially if you've put the work in to make sure he did. I'm not saying he has to. Even if he did die in a better ending, I would not be upset by it. But I do think it's human to want him to live.

well yeah, obviously if this was real, I wouldn't be disappointed to hear that the man who won the wore didn't die in it.  as far as a story goes, though, it fits better.

Maybe. As far as Mass Effect goes though, they should have been able to make multiple, vastly different endings that all fit well with our own storyline that we shaped. Especially with the promise of 16 different endings. I'm sure death to Shepard may have fit at least one person's playthrough, where as him living as well as any other would fit another one.

I agree with you there.  Shepard's death being unavoidable is not what a game of choices should end with

[Whapa]

I agree with much of the arguments against these endings, the only other time I felt like this with a game was with RAGE, hyped graphics that didn't deliver and an ending that was easier than almost any other part of the game and that left me going "WTF????" Honestly after a minimum investment of 140 hours of gameplay (minimum here) and getting everything dialogue option, choice made the way I wanted it to, and not feel like any of that ended up make a lick of difference? Sheesh. Disappoint.

[bossmonkeykj]

bryceax wrote...

bossmonkeykj wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Varnol and boosmonkey. I don't understand how your minds work. I cannot relate. at all. I do not see it your way, I do not see the point of making an idol out of man and i do not understand why a hero cannot be seen as hero by later generations and still live normal life past their heroic deeds. I don't understand why it has to be mutually exclusive and I don't understand how its romantic.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your age, but I have outgrown these notions of "romance" and tragic heroes and idolization for a long time now.

it's literary, and human.  age doesn't matter - otherwise adults wouldn't find the bible itself so inspiring.
And if it takes a number to encourage you to respect what I have to say rather than the content of my words, I am 30.

That's a terrible argument. Just because some people find the Bible inspiring (others find it repugnat) doesn't mean that's the only way to do it.  Both bittersweet and happy endings can inspire and move.  This is EXACTLY what ME3 should've done:  had different endings based on player choice.  Some could sacrifice their Shepard to stop the reapers and others could have enjoyed the 'walk into the sunset' they feel their Shepard deserves.

I never said that that's the only way to do it.  I'm only trying to explain why I like the idea, and there are parallels in other literary works.
And as I said, I agree that having shepard unavoidably die in a game of choices is wholly unfair

[jeweledleah]

bossmonkeykj wrote...

Omnike wrote...

bossmonkeykj wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Varnol and boosmonkey. I don't understand how your minds work. I cannot relate. at all. I do not see it your way, I do not see the point of making an idol out of man and i do not understand why a hero cannot be seen as hero by later generations and still live normal life past their heroic deeds. I don't understand why it has to be mutually exclusive and I don't understand how its romantic.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your age, but I have outgrown these notions of "romance" and tragic heroes and idolization for a long time now.

it's literary, and human.  age doesn't matter - otherwise adults wouldn't find the bible itself so inspiring.  It's not idolizing - it's the romance of the story.  I don't WANT TO BE shepard.
And if it takes a number to encourage you to respect what I have to say rather than the content of my words, I am 30.

I'd say it's the opposite. I think it's human to want these characters to live and prosper. When you're buddy gets shipped off to war you say "Come home" not "Die a hero". That example may be a bit extreme in comparison, but my point is that I think it's human to want Shepard to survive, especially if you've put the work in to make sure he did. I'm not saying he has to. Even if he did die in a better ending, I would not be upset by it. But I do think it's human to want him to live.

well yeah, obviously if this was real, I wouldn't be disappointed to hear that the man who won the wore didn't die in it.  as far as a story goes, though, it fits better.

no,  it does not, sorry.  it may fit your story better, but the whole point of interactive stories that allow you to chose is you know, having a choice how it ends.  and the fact that my choice somehow cheapens yours is well...  yeah, I don't have any nice way to express it, so I'll just keep it to myself,

use your imagination

edsited, just saw your later post. so... does the choice to not turn Shepard into Martyr cheapn your experience or not?  becasue you see, people are NOT asking for manadory ending.  on the contrary.  its part of what pisses us of - this mandatory ending.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 26 mars 2012 - 12:14 .

[Kryptoniangamer]

Im still saying that Bioware has been drinking the Lionhead Studios koolaid. Reminds me of Fable endings.

[bossmonkeykj]

jeweledleah wrote...

bossmonkeykj wrote...

Omnike wrote...

bossmonkeykj wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Varnol and boosmonkey. I don't understand how your minds work. I cannot relate. at all. I do not see it your way, I do not see the point of making an idol out of man and i do not understand why a hero cannot be seen as hero by later generations and still live normal life past their heroic deeds. I don't understand why it has to be mutually exclusive and I don't understand how its romantic.

I don't want to make any assumptions about your age, but I have outgrown these notions of "romance" and tragic heroes and idolization for a long time now.

it's literary, and human.  age doesn't matter - otherwise adults wouldn't find the bible itself so inspiring.  It's not idolizing - it's the romance of the story.  I don't WANT TO BE shepard.
And if it takes a number to encourage you to respect what I have to say rather than the content of my words, I am 30.

I'd say it's the opposite. I think it's human to want these characters to live and prosper. When you're buddy gets shipped off to war you say "Come home" not "Die a hero". That example may be a bit extreme in comparison, but my point is that I think it's human to want Shepard to survive, especially if you've put the work in to make sure he did. I'm not saying he has to. Even if he did die in a better ending, I would not be upset by it. But I do think it's human to want him to live.

well yeah, obviously if this was real, I wouldn't be disappointed to hear that the man who won the wore didn't die in it.  as far as a story goes, though, it fits better.

no,  it does not, sorry.  it may fit your story better, but the whole point of interactive stories that allow you to chose is you know, having a choice how it ends.  and the fact that my choice somehow cheapens yours is well...  yeah, I don't have any nice way to express it, so I'll just keep it to myself,

use your imagination

what the hell?  when did I say your choice cheapens mine?  All I'm saying is what appeals to me!

[Abispa]

Snip.

Modifié par Abispa, 26 mars 2012 - 01:56 .

[luci90]

Oh.

Religion.

This could get dicey.

[inversevideo]

jeweledleah wrote...

varnol wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
how in a world would it cheapen anything? I honestly don't understand this line of thought.

It's kind of hard to explain but... Ok - no offence ment to anyone, just in example - can you imagine Jesus living happily ever after?

What Sheppard did - it's not like he just kiked somebody's ass. He  had done the impossible.  If he can retire and smoke his pipe on the beach after THAT... That would make him  one of others  - just your oridinary old soldier lucky enough to survive. But that was not what Sheppard was for me and that was not what he was for the galaxy.

1.  Shepard is not Jesus. and you know what?  Shepard was just an exceptional soldier with enough fire to inspire other people to follow him/her.  right place, right time.  exceptional individual, but STILL human.  you even get to reinforce that within the damn game, when you hang out with your crew at the purgatory.

2.  according to some people holy grail is not a cup, but rather his progeny.  people who see him as a real person who historicaly existed, rather then divine presence, claim that he didn't die o na cross, but rather went catatonic, was revived and then basicaly escaped with Mary Magdalen and lived happily ever after, making lots and lots of babies.

so yeah.  i can totaly imagine Jesus living happily ever after, with a lot more ease then I can imagine jesus being son of god, who for some inexplicable reason had to die for our sins (as if it somehow excuses all the crap that people do, and redeemds them - only our own actions can redeem us), and then got resurrected and assended to haven.  that makes no sence to me, other then allegory. 

 

History is full of those who lead people through darkness, who inspired us through their leadership, determination, and dedication to a cause.

And none of them had a 'grim dark' end.

George Washington
Queen Elizabeth I
Mother Teresa
Winston Churchill
Margret Thatcher
F.D.R.

And I wish that ME3 had a happilly ever after, feel good ending, as a possible ending.
I agree that DAO did the ending better.  If you are going to have multiple endings why not a happy one?

When there are multiple endings possible, and one is, for you, more desirable than others, that adds to replay value.

[Omnike]

varnol wrote...

Lochwood wrote...

You may have spent hours with the games, but I don't think you've spent hours thinking about the internal rules of the technology and physics as they're presented in the games' many codex entries. They spent a HUGE amount of time working out and explaining how the discovery of eezo and mass effect fields fueled the development of society and the corresponding constraints -- and at the last second they resort to having an all powerful God show up LITERALLY in the last five minutes, and then bail the main character out of the dire situation with MAGIC.

I've read the codex through and through, it's just that - I like old  sci-fi because... You never knew, you couldn't predict the ending. It would often be non-sensical, yet inspiering. Think about Solaris, for example.

It's not like the soap operas of today, when you know all the rules. Something just happens - and you just stay there in awe, because the universe is suddenly much bigger and much  stranger place than you thought just a moment ago. Its a new concept in todays entertainment - but a good one. People need to be in awe once in  while. You can not downgrade this to table-top game rules. Even those are easily broken when the GM decides so.

Well, the execution of the concept could have been better in this example, I'd admit.  But I expect FANS should be a little bit more forgiving. And I guess some of us are. The, uh, younger and less prepared in sci-fi experience are not.


I know that I loved the ending because the idea of synthesis - and Shepard becoming part of it - as a whole - was something that I was prepared for, his strictly paragon approach was actually leading towards this all along -  thus  it satisfied me fully .

Instead of repeating what others have said,  think- honestly- why you personally didn't like the ending. On the emotional level.  I could never understand how a plothole - even gaping wide plothole can possibly ruin the RPG expirience - however far CRPGs might be from that. You either go along for a ride, or you back away and start looking for an exit - anything that can break the immersion for the sole reason that YOU DON'T LIKE where it's going.

I don't think that because we're unexperienced in the Sci-Fi field has ANYtHING to do with it. It's because we know that a story should come to an understandable end. Especially when they said "We can make vastly different endings because this is the end of everything". Besides, I presented you with a good number of the confusions, and you didn't explain them. So please, with your Sci-Fi knowledge, go back and explain the confusions. I'm open minded and I'm totally willing to hear you explain them.

[varnol]

bryceax wrote...

I wanted Shepard to die.  I wanted him to sacrifice himself to prevent the cycle. BUT more importantly, I wanted a coherent end to the trilogy.

And it's SHEPARD.  SHEP-ARD.

Well I'm sorry you didn't get the ending you wanted, because I got mine all right. I guess that means that bioware are catering my tastes  - all the more reason to be optimistic.

Although, it is really no surprise that you missed all the fun I had -  your ability to feel frustrated because of my typos might have something to do with your inability to notice the important parts and dissmiss the nit-picks - wich is actually essential to enjoy any kind of fantasy.

I feel bad right now because you have asari avatar and I like asari so much

[bryceax]

varnol wrote...

bryceax wrote...

I wanted Shepard to die.  I wanted him to sacrifice himself to prevent the cycle. BUT more importantly, I wanted a coherent end to the trilogy.

And it's SHEPARD.  SHEP-ARD.

Well I'm sorry you didn't get the ending you wanted, because I got mine all right. I guess that means that bioware are catering my tastes  - all the more reason to be optimistic.

Although, it is really no surprise that you missed all the fun I had -  your ability to feel frustrated because of my typos might have something to do with your inability to notice the important parts and dissmiss the nit-picks - wich is actually essential to enjoy any kind of fantasy
I feel bad right now because you have asari avatar and I like asari so much

It isn't a typo when you've spelled it like that in every post 

[BloodKite3067]

 First I will say that I don't have a singular favorite
moment, there are so many. What made them so great was the depth they added to
the character. Mordin delivering the cure, Thane praying for Shepard's
salvation, Even Legion giving up his own life (and yes I say his). These all
added depth to the characters and showed that people in the universe were
willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for what they believed in. That is one of the biggest things that has kept me in the series, and has kept me a loyal fan of Biowares. They tell a wonderful story, that revolves around the characters.

The endings for ME3 were disappointing. That I will admit. First time I
completed the game I was shocked, disappointed, even hurt. Second play through didn't
really change that perception, just made it easier to swallow. To go through
all that time and effort, only to get told at the end that there is no choice?
That was and still is a low blow. Now I have spent a total of 240+ hours in the
series making my Shepard mine. I even had forgiven the fact that I had to
completely reconstruct the face of my Shepard because of a programming error on
Biowares part (no offense meant it is the truth).  So to find out that no
matter which choice I made I was destroying the galaxy? That sucked, I almost
returned my game right then and there, what stopped me was the fact that I
liked the rest of the story.  Its funny Shepard not surviving didn't upset
me nearly as much as the fact that I was not given a choice in saving the Galaxy. I
mean no matter what choice you make you destroy the Relays so the galaxy as we
all have come to know it ends. Of course I played it a second time to get the
ending where Shepard survived, just so everyone knows.



Now I love the series. So much so that when it was announced that there was
going to be Multiplayer, I actually transferred from being a PC Mass Effect
player to playing it on the Xbox360. I actually spent the money to purchase all
three games plus their downloadable content, because I loved the story so much.
Turns out that this was a good decision considering Multiplayer is required to
get the ending where Shepard lives. Which while annoying its not necessarily a bad
thing. It does makes us all work together which was the point. Though the fact
remains that Bioware stated that multiplayer was not essential to the main
story in the reveal of the Multiplayer and on the FAQ of the websites.



As for the "Happy Ending DLC" that everyone has been asking
for.  I will admit I would like to see it, however I don't feel it is something
we should pay for. It should be like the Normandy Crash Mission from ME2. 
A DLC attached to the Alliance Network Access we all have to have to play the
game.  

Now I don't know if anyone is actually going to take the time to read this, but I have tried my best to represent both the good and the bad. The ME series will go down as one of the greastest series ever made. And I am happy i got to be apart of that.

From a good Fan;


BloodKite3067

Modifié par BloodKite3067, 26 mars 2012 - 12:19 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

bossmonkeykj wrote...

art done well is always a good business decision.  a large franchise is exactly the best speakerphone to do something artistic and groundbreaking.  It all depends on how confident you are in the message you're giving.  Taking risks on the business end for the sake of artistic integrity is something that should be admired, not admonished.

I'm not going to necessarily agree with you. The problem with doing this with a mass marketed product is that you as the publisher have to be willing to face the music, and sometimes, as you've seen, the music isn't always pretty. If something flops one might need to revise it. Something is "so groundbreaking it has to be explained" perhaps it didn't work in the first place -- especially in something like a video game.

A role playing video game is a mass marketed interactive graphic art form with narrative. Now being interactive means that there is another party involved, which is the player. The player has ownership of the actions of the protagonist, and the effects of those actions affect the way the rest of the environment (characters, etc.) react to the protagonist -- I'm oversimplifying, but you get my point.

In a one shot game it's a one shot agreement between the writers and the player. In a trilogy it's a agreement that spread over three parts, and the player has expectations spread over three parts. In the third part of ME3, the player was given a set of expectations by 1) previous experience with the first two installments; 2) presales hype and assurances on how the series was going to end. While the game play and story delivered, the ending did not for too many people, myself included. Thus Bioware is facing the music.

The ending was poor storytelling, IMO. It introduced completely new material without any explanation, and just seized control of Shepard from the player, and changed Shepard from a problem solving ass kicker into a putz who had completely given up hope, and was saying to herself what I the player was thinking "f*** it." And that is called "art." I am having difficulty wrapping my 140+ IQ around this. On that is what Bioware is staking their reputation.

In a story like this you're wanting to give multiple endings yet bring things back together at the same time. The writing in Dragon Age: Origins did this very well. The writing in Mass Effect 3 for the ending missed the boat. Quite simply, it needs significant revision.

[lnccplbunbun]

varnol wrote...

Lochwood wrote...

You may have spent hours with the games, but I don't think you've spent hours thinking about the internal rules of the technology and physics as they're presented in the games' many codex entries. They spent a HUGE amount of time working out and explaining how the discovery of eezo and mass effect fields fueled the development of society and the corresponding constraints -- and at the last second they resort to having an all powerful God show up LITERALLY in the last five minutes, and then bail the main character out of the dire situation with MAGIC.

I've read the codex through and through, it's just that - I like old  sci-fi because... You never knew, you couldn't predict the ending. It would often be non-sensical, yet inspiering. Think about Solaris, for example.

It's not like the soap operas of today, when you know all the rules. Something just happens - and you just stay there in awe, because the universe is suddenly much bigger and much  stranger place than you thought just a moment ago. Its a new concept in todays entertainment - but a good one. People need to be in awe once in  while. You can not downgrade this to table-top game rules. Even those are easily broken when the GM decides so.

Well, the execution of the concept could have been better in this example, I'd admit.  But I expect FANS should be a little bit more forgiving. And I guess some of us are. The, uh, younger and less prepared in sci-fi experience are not.


I know that I loved the ending because the idea of synthesis - and Shepard becoming part of it - as a whole - was something that I was prepared for, his strictly paragon approach was actually leading towards this all along -  thus  it satisfied me fully .

Instead of repeating what others have said,  think- honestly- why you personally didn't like the ending. On the emotional level.  I could never understand how a plothole - even gaping wide plothole can possibly ruin the RPG expirience - however far CRPGs might be from that. You either go along for a ride, or you back away and start looking for an exit - anything that can break the immersion for the sole reason that YOU DON'T LIKE where it's going.

I think that type of ending was relatively common in short stories, especially in the sf new wave. Still, what we have here is not the universe getting bigger, it's being told in the last five minutes of a 100 hour story that the universe is completely different than what we've been playing in so far. That's like trying to shoe-horn in an expansive-shift in the last sentence of a 300 page novel. It just doesn't work as storytelling.

But let's grant that (which I could, reluctantly). However, you can't do that and also fundamentally change the characters at the same time. Shepard is given choices which s/he has fought against for 3 games and...just accepts them.

The combination of the universe and main character both dramatically changing in the last 5 minutes didn't feel like a universe-expanding move, it felt like a complete writing failure.

I can grant that this general direction is what they wanted to do. But, if so, they failed so completely in execution as to make the whole effect moot.