23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Claus Von Poopn]

 absolutly loved the ending, The sense of accomplisment i had once the credits started rolling. i dont understand everyones anger against the ending your team produced. starting tomorrow imgoing back to play ME1 and start Shepards mission all over again! thanks for the smaming game!

[BadboyP12]

Lies 
Official Mass Effect Website 
http://masseffect.com/about/story/ 

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any 
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience 
and outcome.” 

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer) 
http://popwatch.ew.c........c-walters/ 

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass 
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.” 

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer) 
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/ 

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think 
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are 
optimal for different people “ 

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer) 
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/ 

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as 
much as we are anyway.” 

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer) 
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/ 

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How 
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and 
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t 
say any more than that…” 

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer) 
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry 

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the 
architect of what happens." 

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless 
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide 
some answers to these people.” 

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being 
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they 
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was 
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you 
didn't make” 

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director) 
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx 

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the 
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in 
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different 
based on what you would do in those situations.” 

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director) 
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/ 

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get 
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.” 

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the 
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, 
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an 
end.” 

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?” 
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with 
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.” 

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director) 
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2 

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that 
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?” 
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to 
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about 
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is 
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot 
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many 
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that 
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, 
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got 
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and 
variety in them.” 

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player 
decide what your story is.” 

[/quote]

[robertm2]

Claus Von Poopn wrote...

 absolutly loved the ending, The sense of accomplisment i had once the credits started rolling. i dont understand everyones anger against the ending your team produced. starting tomorrow imgoing back to play ME1 and start Shepards mission all over again! thanks for the smaming game!

good to see some people still appreciate this amazing game bioware has produced. there is still hope after all. i would love for someone to name one game besides maybe skyrim that could even hold a candle to the mass effect series.

[OneDrunkMonk]

Just finished the game. Seems I inadvertently took the "merge" option. I understand that BioWare wanted to continue with the "actions have consequences" thing, but I can't say I'm happy with any of the ending options at all. But what puzzles me even more is that the "merge" option basically ends the Mass Effect universe as we know it, not allowing it to continue in any recognizable form. Why kill of a universe you spent so much effort creating? Maybe BioWare wants to move on but I can see no harm in leaving the franchise open for possible development in the future.

Really tempted to go back and do it Paragon ending, which is the way I believe I was going anyways. I understand the point that organics will "always" create machines which will eventually turn on their masters cycle but I don't see that as being written in stone. Afterall the cycle was broken for the first time since inception, and that's a deviation from norm.

Would have preferred one concrete ending where the previous choices you made only changed the casualty rate, who and what planets.

[darthoptimus003]

im sorry but this how thing seems like a copout
if the proposed dlcs are accually made then yall will effectivly be rewrithing the whole story for the sake of artistic integrity if sorry but yall really will be screwing up if this happens then what happens then ?
just give the fans what they want and not try to add anything that will make the endings that much worse
what happen to dark energy from 2 that would possibly make a great catalist or not just sayin
we have the polls you might want to read because right now mass effect 3 is on its way to being the biggest con in our life time as things sit reght now and that will bring the other 2 with it and i dont want that to happen to none of the 3 games
so abbandon the artistic integraty bs and do the right thing and fix this the right way
oh one more thing casey man where were all the big guns that delivered the whop ass boom at
just a question id been wondering
thanks for listening again

[Cross429]

improperdancing wrote...

Trust is a hard thing to gain, but an easy thing to lose.  BioWare earned my trust, sure, but between this game and Dragon Age II, they've gone a long way toward losing it.  I feel like, since the EA acquisition, they're quickly turning into just another game company that's far more concerned with turning a profit and pumping out DLC than they are with quality control.

Fair enough: and trust me, they're well aware of the power of the consumer. The 2-star Amazon ranking, given the general quality of the game as a whole, can't be ignored.

I, too, am concerned with the way that their timeline on ME3 seemed to be artificially shaped by EA interests.

That said, I have faith in the team. We've come to know these guys, indirectly, through their work: as is the case with any artists. I'd spare them a level of character-level criticsm based on that, and have faith that they mean the best.

I don't think Dr. Ray believes this to be an awesome ending, and that Bioware's "changing it" is a response to whiny fans. I think they always expected the ending to be temporary - either strategically or due to time/money concerns. Yes, this opens up the "corruption effect of EA: congrats VP Ray" argument, but I nontheless believe they'll do right by their fans in the end.

Just my .02, based on Bioware's past work.

[lone_wulf]

As the saying goes, "All good things must come to an end" well that about sums it up! Nice work Bioware on a great series!

[Cross429]

OneDrunkMonk wrote...

Just finished the game. Seems I inadvertently took the "merge" option. I understand that BioWare wanted to continue with the "actions have consequences" thing, but I can't say I'm happy with any of the ending options at all. But what puzzles me even more is that the "merge" option basically ends the Mass Effect universe as we know it, not allowing it to continue in any recognizable form. Why kill of a universe you spent so much effort creating? Maybe BioWare wants to move on but I can see no harm in leaving the franchise open for possible development in the future.

Really tempted to go back and do it Paragon ending, which is the way I believe I was going anyways. I understand the point that organics will "always" create machines which will eventually turn on their masters cycle but I don't see that as being written in stone. Afterall the cycle was broken for the first time since inception, and that's a deviation from norm.

Would have preferred one concrete ending where the previous choices you made only changed the casualty rate, who and what planets.

Please, for the sake of your psyche (and, admittedly, the damnation of Shepard's), check out: .

Modifié par Cross429, 26 mars 2012 - 03:03 .

[wombling_wombat]

I wouldn't have minded the ending if it didn't include weird things like squad mates who were fighting with me on Earth suddenly stepping out of the Normanday on some weird planet, or the fact the Normandy apparently just abandonded the Earth while the fight was still raging.

And why were we told our decisions make a difference when no matter what you do you essentially die and have the same ending with the Normandy and its crew stranded. In terms of what players are really interested in (ie, Shepard's fate and that of the Normandy) there are virtually no choices or actions that affect the outcome.

[Cross429]

robertm2 wrote...

Claus Von Poopn wrote...

 absolutly loved the ending, The sense of accomplisment i had once the credits started rolling. i dont understand everyones anger against the ending your team produced. starting tomorrow imgoing back to play ME1 and start Shepards mission all over again! thanks for the smaming game!

good to see some people still appreciate this amazing game bioware has produced. there is still hope after all. i would love for someone to name one game besides maybe skyrim that could even hold a candle to the mass effect series.

Can't.

ME wins.

Congrats?

The fact is that the ending failed, nonetheless. No choice: no consequence. Tacked-on, cursory.

From a great series, we're hoping for an ending that matches the enormously high standards of the series thus far. Why we're here.

[The Irish Man]

It was great until the end. I even forced myself to play a second playthrough. The ending still sucked.

[Lochwood]

I absolutely agree with Cross429, above. The Mass Effect story has always been intended to move forward, and the endings have the hallmarks of temporary stopgap measure stamped all over them. The real shame is just how poorly things were executed, and that's clearly the result of time pressure. Carrying an enormous payroll is a real burden, and eventually you have to ship a product out the door to bring in revenue.

I'm also no worried about a lot of the downer plot elements that the endings leave in place. Destroyed relays and stranded fleets sounds like a good a place as any for the next game to start with. Isn't some chaos and lingering drama and causes for friction almost to be expected before the nex chapter in the story?

If everything stays united and happy and peaceful, where is the drama?

I want to know what else is out there that wasn't connected to the relay network. We've only seen 1% of the galaxy according to the codex. What other races and empires and threats did following the reaper tech keep the council races from ever discovering.

Remember, the roman empire and the huge Chinese empire never so much as heard of each other despite each covering area the size of Europe. What happens when the citadel races bump into their counterparts? Good stuff.

[Madds17]

 Up until the ending the game was pure brilliance!  You guys gave us, the fans, such an amazing experience that I will personally treasure for the rest of my life.  I feel the descisions i made as femshep are so deeply personal that I feel awkward sharing my Mass Effect experience with others outside of a forum.  I swear ME has become a form of virtual reality for those who play it.  I cried...and I don't cry easily.  

My favorite moment would have to be romanced Garrus' final words to my femshep.  The way femshep chokes up...just tore up my heart.  I still can't think about that scene without feeling choked up somewhat.

[Ownedbacon]

robertm2 wrote...

Claus Von Poopn wrote...

 absolutly loved the ending, The sense of accomplisment i had once the credits started rolling. i dont understand everyones anger against the ending your team produced. starting tomorrow imgoing back to play ME1 and start Shepards mission all over again! thanks for the smaming game!

good to see some people still appreciate this amazing game bioware has produced. there is still hope after all. i would love for someone to name one game besides maybe skyrim that could even hold a candle to the mass effect series.

I loved the game and still love the Mass Effect series but the ending just wrongs the game and the series.
This article explains why the introduction of the Catalyst ruins the series.
http://jmstevenson.w...-mass-effect-3/

Modifié par Ownedbacon, 26 mars 2012 - 03:18 .

[elguapo64]

 
A couple of things.  First, a letter I wrote to Bioware while resolving some errors in my account that prohibited my posting.


I'm certain this inbox has likely been flooded from fans responding with 
input on this matter.  I'm also sure some have been more civil than 
others.  I, frankly, feel a little foolish in adding my voice to theirs, 
but there were several things I wanted to say.



First, and foremost, thank you.  I want to thank Bioware and the team 
behind this game for doing such an amazing job.  The only reason you are 
seeing such a backlash, including the more negative responses, is 
because people have become so invested and attached to the characters in 
the story you all have drawn out for your customers and fans.  The lack 
of resolution complaint isn't simply that "we don't know what happened," 
it's more specific.  You see people phrasing questions like "Why would 
Joker be running away?"  People know Joker, they know the character 
you've created.  They know that, without some explanation, high-tailing 
it out of battle and leaving Shepard and the others behind is an 
anathema to Joker's personality and conviction.  That leaves everyone 
asking - "what was his reason?"



That's just one such example.  As I said, people only care about this 
ending because you all have done such a spectacular job over the course 
of these three games.  Again, you have my thanks.



That being said, I understand everyone's disappointment.  Having beat 
the game Thursday night, I couldn't concentrate at work on Friday.  I'm 
an attorney, and I have a pretty heavy caseload.  Still, rather than 
contemplating a six-figure mediation on Tuesday, I kept finding myself 
wondering where the Normandy ended up.  What did it mean that Shepard 
gasped?  What about the different militaries stranded in earth's 
system?  Then, of course, came the news and blogs.  I found myself 
desperately reading into the "Indoctrination Theory" and other takes 
positioning the ending as a dense symbolist dream.  Even these, 
ultimately, are unsatisfying.  The fact your fans have delved so deep as 
to either discover a very subtle plot device - or craft a very well 
pedigreed theory supporting such a device's existence - implementing an 
indoctrination battle should speak volumes about how much your fans 
don't want to leave their - and I use this word because I don't know of 
any other - "friends" in the game behind.  At least not without a more 
respectable modicum of closure.



I'm not one of the voices asking for an ending rewrite.  If you all 
disagree and think that's best - then so be it.  However, I am asking 
that you all please address what happened with the crew.  I'm not asking 
that we have some forced roll call of every important and semi-important 
character in the game, but I hope you understand how seeing Joker, the 
Normandy and whatever relevant LI walking out of a crashed and 
previously fleeing Normandy onto a jungle planet - potentially and 
presumably outside the reach of any help - while my mostly-dead Shepard 
is gasping in a pile of rubble that may have been a miracle crash 
landing of the citadel or the breaking of a period of 
indoctrination...   It is unsatisfying.  Are those members simply doomed 
to die?  Were they simply in intra-system FTL travel?  Were they in a 
Relay?  If so, why?  If stranded mid-relay, does that mean that no one 
will ever find them?  Can you even disengage flight without terminating 
at a relay without dying?



I'm sorry to add my voice to so many others, but you all did request fan 
input.  Please take this as a more reasonable fan's request.  I don't 
want to damage your own vision of this story.  Your vision is the one 
every fan has come to love.  Its the reason why now, almost two days 
later, I'm spending my free morning writing an email to a bioware 
"contact" account.  This means a lot to a lot of people, and I want to 
thank you for requesting our feedback.  I just hope you all will help 
explain a little more as to where our characters and crewmembers ended.  
Not all stories have to have happy endings.  That being said, I wouldn't 
complain if you all allowed a happy ending to come from this, but I 
understand that sometimes the darkness makes things more poignant.  
Still, even tragedy requires some amount of explanation.  Please give 
that to us.





------

Let me add this to the above letter, given another 36 hours to reflect.  I find the ending haunting and unsatisfying.  If your desire was for me to not stop thinking about it, mission accomplished.  However, I don't think it has remained in my mind for the reasons that you'd desire.

I accept any ending - even a tragedy - so long as there is a modicum of explanation.  Please understand that some actions you all have put in place (why was it necessary for Joker to be running away in the first place?) are what demand explanation.  I'm not asking for snippets of what happened to Conrad or to Jacob's lady friend.  I do want to know - how did Wrex (assuming he ever did) get back home?  What happened to the Quarians now that the Geth are DOA?  Call me a romantic, but I remained faithful to Ashley in ME2.  Having her go from my squad, along with Garrus, to being stranded on some unnamed planet crashed into after that unsuccessful FTL travel sequence is, to be kind to the narrative, enigmatic.  

You people are very smart.  You are excellent story tellers.  You all are much, much better than this.  I can only suppose important material was left on the cutting room floor for the sake of poignancy and brevity.  Please accept that, in my humble opinion, whatever you gained in poignancy and brevity was smashed against the cruel rocks of plot holes, unresolved actions and an unsuccessful attempt to channel Shamylan's "twist" ending.  Please, let us understand what happened.  That's not a rewrite, it's simply a request to insert the reasons I'm sure you had for having Joker flee.  For having Shepard gasp.  For having the entire galaxy's military stranded in the Sol system with only (relatively) short range FTL travel.  How did you all account for that?  

Your world is so rich we actually care about what happened to those fleets.  We're concerned for the Turians, Quarians, Asari, et al.  I actually felt dirty for killing the Geth as a species, like I betrayed Legion.  You were able to elicit those emotions - please give us something concrete to justify why we made those hard choices.

And I will say this also - I'm not asking for a rewrite, but would it have killed you guys to throw one (incredibly difficult) sappy ending in there?  No medal ceremonies necessary, but maybe a little victory celebration with the LI wouldn't have killed anybody, would it?

There, that's off my chest.  I hope somebody at Bioware reads this.

[Nette]

Bioware, this is a fanfic ending written by Eternalsteelfan. It's brilliant and you should take it into consideration. Link to his thread: http://social.biowar...ndex/10022779/1

This is from that thread:

D. Glorified Fanfiction (I feel dirty). A few people have asked me what I would have done with the ending and I responded to at least one that I would give up an idea or two. I might as well pony up and deliver something, so I present to you, in as brief a form as possible, an example of a more technically sound (drawing board stage) ending:

1.

From Anderson's death and Hackett's call that nothing is happening with the Crucible:

Shepard collapses against the control panel - it whirs and lights up with activity. Shepard weakly pulls his head up then backs away - a display of immeasureable data fills the vantage point of Earth. Amidst the constantly flickering and cycling data, one constant: a blueprint-like image of Harbinger. Shephard, perhaps do to the cipher, seems to understand.

The player is able to investigate some of the data through Shepard and learns:



The Crucible isn't a weapon but a beacon attuned to recieve and transmit the collective history of every cycle that has been Reaped. (Beacon/cipher bookend with original Mass Effect) (transmission contained in dark energy?)

Every cycle completed their own Crucible which recorded their war against the Reapers and inevitable defeat / where they went wrong.

No previous cycle had ever been able to unify all of their diverse spacefaring races under one banner against the Reapers in time. (Reinforcement of Javik statement in regards to the Protheans and the theme of unification and cooperation against a universal enemy)

Passed down through every cycle and every completion of the Crucible is the information necessary for defeating the Reapers: "The Catalyst" is Harbinger, the original Reaper and de facto leader who resided over the creation of every Reaper and exerts it's will over all of them (indoctrination writ large?)
[/list]After finding this information, Harbinger enters. It attempts to finish off Shephard while mocking him. Still critically wounded, Shepard must avoid the laser and make his way to whatever may consititue an exit beam.

2.

Shephard's injured squadmates and the small remnants of Hammer have made their way down to the Citadel beam; Shepard is transported in front of them with the beam closing behind him. He radios Hackett and fills him in on the situation: Harbinger must be destroyed at all costs. Hackett informs Shephard that Harbinger is headed back down for another attack before giving the order for all allied forces to focus on Harbinger. (Bookend with Mass Effect and Sovereign)

3.

The fleets are hammered by Reapers as they break off their current attacks and bring all their guns to bear on Harbinger.

4.

Harbinger's shields withstand the impacts as it reenters the atmosphere and descends towards Shepard. The Normandy, Destiny Acension (If it survived Mass Effect), and a handful of other ships follow.

5.

From high above, Harbinger begins raining fire down on Shepard and Hammer. The player must survive as every shot bringers Harbinger closer. The better the player's EMS the shorter the battle, eventually Harbinger is overcome: if the Destiny Ascension is present, it sacrifices itself to deal the damaging blow, otherwise, the Normandy makes the final attack with an EMS check; failure results in the Normandy's destruction with Joker flying into Harbinger to bring it down, success sees the Normander crash land safely.

Harbinger is irreparably damaged and crashes into the city with a large explosion and shockwave, leaving it lying in a massive crater with a radius of barren land. (Harbinger's antagonistic vendetta against Shepard provided a unique opening that left it more vulnerable than in any previous cycle)

6.

After a moment of victory with Hammer and his squadmates, Shepard sees off in the distance that Harbinger is still functioning.

7.

Most of the allied fleets are in ruins, the Reapers' victory is at hand. Hackett's ship and what's left of his forces try to hold off the Reapers.

8.

Shepard is radioed by Hackett that Harbinger is still moving down there but the fleet is helpless to finish it. A desperate plan is hatched: a Thanix missile battery from Hammer has survived but Harbinger's weakpoint is protected from fire inside the crater; the battery is rigged to explode and someone must drive it into the crater while resisting the still active Reaper's indoctrination attempts.

It's a one-way trip and the player must choose either Shepard, Liara, Garrus, or VS for the sacrifice. (Each volunteer and Liara is always alive up to this point so the player always has at least one alternative). The chosen character recieves a send off from the others.

9.

The chosen character drives across the decimated plain as Harbinger tries to indoctrinate them. If Shepard, the player can choose dialogue responses to Harbinger, otherwise the chosen alternative responds uniquely to it's attempts. With sufficiently low EMS, an alternative to Shepard can fail, becoming indoctrinated and detonating the missiles prematurely - bad ending.

Success sees the payload delivered and the chosen character sacrificing his or her self. Harbinger is finished in a dramatic explosion.

10.

Above, in space, Harbinger's influence wanes: most Reapers, products and engines of genocide for untold cycles, begin to exhibit free will and, recognizing themselves as monstrosities, turn on each other to break the cycle once and for all (reinforcement of synthetics as living, free beings with a "soul", organic components reject Harbinger). Some of the oldest and largest Reapers stay true to Harbinger's motives and resist but are overcome by the others. The Reapers have destroyed themselves, with a scarce independent few peacefully departing for unknown destinations, they are free.

11.

Visual epilogue; character, race, and location fates determined by player choices throughout the series with EMS factored into survival.

Modifié par Nette, 26 mars 2012 - 03:38 .

[SnakeEyesX66]

Ok, Hi Bioware.

I am just asking for a happy ending. I know a lot of people want a happy ending to shepard because he worked his butt off to defeat this threat and to be happy.

A happy ending will be the best!

[Cross429]

oldretired60 wrote...

Cross429, As for the quality mentioned of Baulder's Gate, it was great, but  from what I've been reading on the forums, a lot of the original Bioware employees that developed Baulder's Gate and the older games are gone.  On one forum I read that even the original ones that made Mass Effect and part of Mass Effect 2 are gone.  Just what I read, could be wrong.  Maybe, can't trust what you read on the net most times.

I just wanted an option for a happy ending along with the others. 

The studio heads are the same. The studio itself is the same.

I'm sorry dude: but a happy ending for the sake of "happiness" alone ain't cool - it's predictable, and it means that every game must end the same way. Experiencing sadness and despair is equal to the requirement that we experience joy and satisfaction. If we can always expect one set, what value has the other? Heroin makes one happy...it doesn't mean it's meaningful.

Pathos. That's why we care about this crap in Western culture. Because it makes us experience ourselves in a new way. Don't abandon that aristry for a Matrix-like complacency: we're better than that, and so is Bioware.

That said, if they want to create a "happy" ending with Pathos, I'm all for it.

Modifié par Cross429, 26 mars 2012 - 03:58 .

[clanqui]

Omnike wrote...

bossmonkeykj wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

Omnike wrote...

clanqui wrote...

I liked the ending. I chose synthesis, which was truer to my paragon shepherds values, but they all worked. I also liked the way that ending gave you a sort of joker and EDI as adam and eve. Honestly, I don't understand how anyone could have gone into the game without understanding that this was a tragedy. I guess we've really lost our taste for them.

What... I... no. We went in thinking this was the opposite of a tragedy. It was a story about hope. Hell, even the end of ME1 was corny enough to have Shepard come out victorious standing on a piece of Soverign with triumphant music playing in the background. And, let's assume it was a tragedy from start to finish. It still dosn't explain the plot holes that I have not seen ANYONE defend without the Indoc theory.

 I'm still trying to think how can one see Mass Effect as tragedy.  I guess being the first cycle in... i have no idea how long, I'm not sure even reapers remember, anyways first cycle to actualy have a fighting chance, to managed repeated setbacks to reapers, managing to broker alliances between bitter enemies, managing to save lives against all odds.. is a tragedy?

mass effect certainly was an action drama.  but it was NOT a tragedy.

I also slightly see Shepard's death in the light that Anderson puts it, when he said he felt like he hadn't sat down in forever.  He finally gets to rest.

Eternal rest brings back the argument of faith. Not everyone is faithful and believe in "eternal rest". And in no way am I bashing you for believing that. Which brings us back to this fitting your story, but not mine. I'd like (not need) a bit more closure to my Shepard than death.

Death is the end of every human story.  Has nothing to do with faith.  "Count no man happy who is not dead" does not mean that we are only happy in death.  It means that it isn't possible to measure a human story until it has reached its conclusion. 

Shepherds story kindof rocked.

[Cross429]

Lochwood wrote...

This explains my disappointment: http://www.themetaga...oblem-with.html

So my issues basically date back to Aristotle, and are fairly universal in human storytelling. You can keep "spocks brain" and the other foibles of the "bad old days" of science fiction.

Seconding this, the abandonment of the actual sensibilities surronding the ME universe in the current ME3 ending is astonishing.

A suspension of belief is fine, but if you go out of your way to violate the ideas of that suspension just to portray a static outcome? You're conciously choosing to transform your well-thought-out explanation into an obvious fig leaf.

Which is why I believe Bioware intended Indoctrination theory all along...but regardless, as SciFi fans, you can't possibly eat this stuff on a silver platter.

[jeweledleah]

Cross429 wrote...

oldretired60 wrote...

Cross429, As for the quality mentioned of Baulder's Gate, it was great, but  from what I've been reading on the forums, a lot of the original Bioware employees that developed Baulder's Gate and the older games are gone.  On one forum I read that even the original ones that made Mass Effect and part of Mass Effect 2 are gone.  Just what I read, could be wrong.  Maybe, can't trust what you read on the net most times.

I just wanted an option for a happy ending along with the others. 

The studio heads are the same. The studio itself is the same.

I'm sorry dude: but a happy ending for the sake of "happiness" alone ain't cool - it's predictable, and it means that every game must end the same way. Experiencing sadness and despair is equal to the requirement that we experience joy and satisfaction. If we can always expect one set, what value has the other? Heroin makes one happy...it doesn't mean it's meaningful.

Pathos. That's why we care about this crap in Western culture. Because it makes us experience ourselves in a new way. Don't abandon that aristry for a Matrix-like complacency: we're better than that, and so is Bioware.

That said, if they want to create a happy ending with Pathos, I'm all for it.

at this point, tragic ending is just as predictable as the happy one.

more over - unpredictability for the sake of unpredictability is bad.  when your customers/players have certain expectations and you break them as "spectacularely" as bioware did with ME3 ending?  well, the results are hard to miss.

when I buy a certain piece of entertainment, I don't buy it to be surprised.  I buy it because I 'm aware of what to expect in general terms if not specificaly and this is the type of entertainment I'm looking for.  breaking this sort of trust, for the sakes of "unpredictability" ends up breaking trust and prevents preorders.. at a minimum.

and I'm going to stop myself before I start getting personal and proceed to stereotype western culture.

[Omnike]

clanqui wrote...
Death is the end of every human story.  Has nothing to do with faith.  "Count no man happy who is not dead" does not mean that we are only happy in death.  It means that it isn't possible to measure a human story until it has reached its conclusion. 

Shepherds story kindof rocked.

Death does not have to be the end of every individual story. Did Tom Sawyer die at the end of the story? No. He can die after living a life after this story. His story kind of rocked up until the point that he wasn't Shepard anymore. He was an obedient dog to someone he should not have trusted so easily.

[Cross429]

BadboyP12 wrote...



Lies 
Official Mass Effect Website 
http://masseffect.com/about/story/ 

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any 
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience 
and outcome.” 

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer) 
http://popwatch.ew.c........c-walters/ 

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass 
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.” 

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer) 
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/ 

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think 
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are 
optimal for different people “ 

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer) 
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/ 

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as 
much as we are anyway.” 

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer) 
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/ 

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How 
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and 
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t 
say any more than that…” 

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer) 
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry 

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the 
architect of what happens." 

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless 
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide 
some answers to these people.” 

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being 
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they 
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was 
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you 
didn't make” 

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director) 
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx 

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the 
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in 
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different 
based on what you would do in those situations.” 

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director) 
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/ 

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get 
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.” 

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the 
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, 
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an 
end.” 

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?” 
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with 
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.” 

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director) 
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2 

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that 
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?” 
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to 
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about 
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is 
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot 
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many 
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that 
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, 
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got 
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and 
variety in them.” 

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player 
decide what your story is.” 

Killer. Killer.

Thanks for compiling; I'm too lazy for that kind of thing.

The sum total of which forces us to ask: why? Given the stated intentions of the Devs, why was all that abandonded?

My personal belief is that they ran out of time/money to complete the Indocrtrination theory ending - after which we'd get some real results - and so settled for this "tack on" ending as an  interim solution towards DLC. Of course, they weren't expecting that we'd all be able to see this truly terrible endng for what it was. At least not so coherently, and en masse. Hold the line.

Modifié par Cross429, 26 mars 2012 - 04:07 .

[Omnike]

Cross429 wrote...


Killer. Killer.

Thanks for compiling; I'm too lazy for that kind of thing.

The sum total of which forces us to ask: why? Given the stated intentions of the Devs, why was all that abandonded?

My personal belief is that they ran out of time/money to complete the Indocrtrination theory ending - after which we'd get some real results - and so settled for this "tack on" ending as an  interim solution towards DLC. Of course, they weren't expecting that we'd all be able to see this truly terrible endng for what it was. At least not so coherently, and en masse. Hold the line.

Someone compiled all of this earlier in the thread. Before the 100 pages, I believe. Pretty crazy though, I checked most of the sources myself and they do check out with the quotes.

[clanqui]

Omnike wrote...

clanqui wrote...
Death is the end of every human story.  Has nothing to do with faith.  "Count no man happy who is not dead" does not mean that we are only happy in death.  It means that it isn't possible to measure a human story until it has reached its conclusion. 

Shepherds story kindof rocked.

Death does not have to be the end of every individual story. Did Tom Sawyer die at the end of the story? No. He can die after living a life after this story. His story kind of rocked up until the point that he wasn't Shepard anymore. He was an obedient dog to someone he should not have trusted so easily.

Are you suggesting that tom sawyer was immortal?  Or that mass effect was a coming of age story? 

One of the overriding themes of mass effect since the beginning, especially in it's paragon arcs, is noble sarifice.  Both of the first two games ended in suicide missions, that Shepherd only survived due to silly deus ex machina.  In the very clearly advertised end of the series with the big dramatic finish how could anyone expect anything different than what happened.