23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Temporal Loop]

Oh and one side problem: ME3 ROMANCE.

Liara forgives you if you had a fling with Chambers in ME2 - assuming the game had her knowing about it at all.
(Asks if we're still serious about "Us".)

So why do things change if you say yes to her question of seriousness, inviting friends up to chat in your quarters, ignoring their flirting?!

If you actively engage in flirting, fine! That's sensible.
But if you shoot them down, how does that impact the relationship?!
THEY started it!

Due to this I was denied the intimate Liara Romance peak before the end!
(Thanks BioWare, Shep got an empty bed before dying for everyone.)

Also of note: You have multiple flirters, but you can only invite up one at a time. This means to invite person B up, first you need to invite person A up. Why are they stacked up on ONE button?!

[L337fool]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

L337fool wrote...

Federelis wrote...

L337fool wrote...

I just want to say thank you to the team at Bioware for an amazing trilogy. I don't know what peoples deals were with the ending (Well I do but I'm not trying to provoke the knuckle draggers here) but being a huge Joker/EDI fan I absolutely loved my conclusion. The 3rd game allowed me to tie up all of the loose end on the way and I feel was a masterful conclusion to the series. Trolls growl the loudest so please don't take too much of it to heart. You can't please everyone I guess. I can't wait for any DLC you have in the works and future titles. Thanks so much for the ride!

P.S. - By the end of the game I found myself thinking "I wish they could find some way to use Reaper tech to fix Joker and make this EDI thing work out." and BAM as if you read my mind it happened. I dug on the whole Gurren Lagann "Anti Spiral" vibe too. I saw alot of other influences you guys use to bring this story together. You're my kind of peeps. Masterful Work!

Funny. I also rooted for Joker and EDI; brought them together, and was happy to see them there. Also i was going green; cannot bring the known galaxy together, then turn around and kill part of its new friendly inhabitants. Guess, Control was maybe less invasive, but what can I say. I'm a european commie after all.

So everything worked out then, it seems... let's see, where's the heart icon...

WAIT A MINUTE!
Who's the knuckledragger here? What about the whole rest of the ending?

 I can tell you there are a thousand references in this series that foreshadow this ending but you really have to have deep roots in all things awesome (classic Movies, Anime, and Sci Fi literature) to feel where the writers are coming from here. This was the bravest thing I've seen a brilliant set of writers do in a long time they simply didn't dumb it down for the masses.

-For example I can't believe people weren't paying attention to the radio chatter explaining why the Normandy (and crew)  bailed on the situation especially in light of joker explaining his regret for getting Shepard killed in ME 2 by not knowing when it was time to leave.

-Anderson was ahead of you when making for the Citadel so ya it makes sense that he was up there.

-Where the hell did you think the illusive man would go as soon as he found out what the Catalyst was not to mention his condition (the operation he undertook) was covered in the Vids on his base.

I honestly could go on for days this was always the kind of ending they were heading for and all of it makes perfect sense. People simply did not put two and two together. Bioware didn't dumb this one down at all for you peeps. I'm proud of them. Surprised EA let them get away with it. My ending with the decisions I made was perfect. Best conclusion to an RPG I've seen in years.

Actually Anderson said "I followed you up." So that makes no sense that he was there ahead of you. There is so much that contradicts everything set forth.

Why would Shepard go from a problem solving ass kicking commander to a total putz, and the player had zero control over Shepard at the time. Shepard just stood there agreeing with the genocidal VI. Go ahead and think it's brilliant. I think it was absolutely vacant with all choices leading to nothingness. But I'm not a nihilist. Yet I chose the only choice I could choose -- red just to get rid of the "god kid" since in all the endings everyone is f***ed anyway.<_<

You're right about Anderson though it still makes sense he made it up there.

[Bludger133]

L337fool wrote...

Don't Worry EA likes money so I'm sure they will have Bioware draw you an ending in crayons. So sad over what the gaming community has degraded to.

Not sure whether you are a troll or if you are genuinely happy to pay for a substandard product.  Either way I feel sorry for you.

The issue is pretty simple really: people paid for a product based on the precedents set by the first two games and the advertising campaign for the third.  They did not receive that product.  If the game was free, I would say "suck it up", but it was not free so the artistic expression argument goes out the window.

[vje6]

Those documents describe everything that's wrong with the endings:

www.themetagames.com/2012/03/why-you-enjoy-art-and-one-problem-with.html (Fantastic and reasonable writing piece about the feeling of frustration and where it roots, highly recommended)

docs.google.com/document/d/1QT4IUepvrU1pfv_B95oQj0H84DlCTUmzQ_uQh1voTUs/preview (This examines the plot-holes in great detail, very comprehensive, but worth a read!)

 (Jeremy Jahns coke-induced rant about why he hates the endings - very funny to watch!)

If Bioware looks through those documents, it very much sums up everything fans don't like about the endings.

[chevyguy87]

i want what was promised 16 "different" endings i want the "CHOICE" of a happy a sad or a downright bad ending i want the "CHOICE" to see shepard live or die i want the "CHOICE" to see anderson and kahlee sanders retire and settle down we the fans want choices to see that what we did actually mattered

[Mixon]

 Interesting, what Bioware can answer on this.

[Federelis]

L337fool wrote...

You're right about Anderson though it still makes sense he made it up there.

Yeah, right. It just so happens that it does. How ignorant of us.

Let me reiterate at this point: hardly anyone playing Mass Effect lacks the intellect to get what's laid out along the road. At the very latest, we all very much learned to listen and think over the course of three games. It has the perfect blend of involving you with actions and emotions. And certainly with bending the mind more than your usual space fare these days. Also the dosage of information was as plenty as you saw fit. Always something more to explore when you're up for it. We even have to buy novels and comics to get the whole picture.
But then you get to the end, and there's about three minutes of video with next to nothing to sail into the sunset with. Wrong dosage in itself is the wrong message for the consumers so heavily invested in the characters.

You might remember something interesting that's very common in anime; at the fans' insistence they're often produce epilouges in various forms.  Even whole movies like with full metal alchemist. And why not? Since when is that a question of being versed in awesome for having no need for it? And who argues like that?

Happy ends may never arrive for Shepard, but let him/her be proactive and not so damn submissive. I found myself dumbfounded when I stood on the platform with the three choices left. That's it? Why listen to everything the game foreshadows when it's not exactly paying off in this particular moment? ME 2 was amazing in that regard.

Additionally, it just makes no sense that Shepard isn't repulsed and bewildered by these choices. From his sworn enemy? Why even trust them? I was almost never renegade, but nobody's such a tool in that moment. No one's Shepard but seemingly yours.

Modifié par Federelis, 26 mars 2012 - 11:05 .

[vje6]

@Mixon: Great article, thanks for sharing!

[Lord Irvine]

Mixon wrote...

 Interesting, what Bioware can answer on this.

Bioware needs to read that.

[OneMore1968]

I invested in the CE version of ME3.  Though I now wonder why (At least I got a copy, the less said about the GAME.com fiasco the better). 

The interaction between characters (unless you got them all killed and imported that ME2 game as I did first playthrough and got the vanilla replacements!) is great and at times is pure emotion, due in no small part to the fantastic soundtrack. And the gameplay has been massively improved with reaction time in battles much faster and more fluid than ME2.

But what happened Bioware/EA?  The conclusion is a huge disappointment (even if you do every single at times tedious mission/side mission and get the third ending!).  Perhaps more resource went into the Multiplayer option which I personally don't have much interest for but appreciate some people will love. 

I think everyone realised that Shepard had to REALLY die at some point in the series, but it's also true what previous posters are saying;  The ending totally lacks the creativity & imagination shown in the rest of the game.  There are so many ways in which it could have been improved.  

For instance, in the final approach to the beam, your two chosen squadmates are with you until the last few yards - then they disappear!!!  What is all that about??  could you not have had them follow you to just before you hit the beam and die in similar fashion to other previous squadmates.  This part of the game was just so bland and uninteresting (the part with Anderson and Illusive man was more like it plus the part where Shep approaches the console) but then the final scenes just don't have the same creativity displayed elsewhere.

I could go on but to me, it felt almost as though ME3 is a standalone version of the game .  It fails to live up to the hype it was given and I guess it was always going to fall short of expectations, but I was totally disillusioned by those last five minutes.

Plus you never feel that the decisions you made in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 impact on ME3.  One instance, whether you chose Anderson or Udina to lead the council, Udina is the councillor - Why?  And there are other similar plot holes discussed elsewhere. 

And spare us from the inenvitable DLC's.  I can't see how they will make up for the lacklustre ending.  

I've lived and breathed the Mass Effect series, investing several hundred hours in different playthroughs (much to the amusement of my husband)  but somehow I don't really feel the enthusiasm to do that with ME3 just because of the ending.

As an aside, imagine the trilogy - Lord of the Rings, and how disappointing that would have been should Peter Jackson have decided to leave out those final epic battle scenes.


   YOU REALLY FAILED SPECTACULARLY ON THIS ONE BIOWARE/EA        
                                                                                                                                     

Modifié par Carlina, 26 mars 2012 - 12:16 .

[Unlimited Pain2]

I've yet to post on the forums, just been lurking. But a couple of hours ago I finished Mass Effect 3 and I had the urge to jump in on the discussion. I worked hard to avoid spoilers before completing the game, but I had heard there was a bit of an uproar over the ending. I just assumed it meant a bleak ending and fans were angry there was no Happily Ever After for Shepard, which was an ending I would have accepted.

Unfortunately I can see exactly why fans are upset. Don't get me wrong, ME3 is a great game. A FANTASTIC game. I think that's why the ending felt like such a kick in the stones. I've spent 100+ hours per game scouring every mission and planet. Played through ME 1 & 2 completely four times. I feel INVESTED in these characters every bit as much as you would be in the characters of your favorite long-time running TV show.

In my humble opinion, it's not about the ending being dark, or sad. It's not about who died or who lived. It's about the characters not being resolved. It didn't need to be a half hour of cutscenes, something as simple as the short voice overs at the end of Fallout would have satisfied me, or at the very least given me some form of closure on the series. Instead the ending feels ambiguous. It feels confusing. A five second clip of a few characters climbing out of the Normandy on an uninhabited planet does nothing to deliver the emotional and impactful ending these characters deserve. It does nothing to connect me to the characters I've invested so much of myself into one last time.

I've read the Indoctrination Theory and quite honestly it feels like a cop out. If that was the writers goal, then they executed it poorly with little-to-no hints in that direction, and simply didn't deliver on the promise of Mass Effect 3 ending Shepards story. It just ends with him beginning to regain conciousness, leaving the player with no clue to how the Reaper war is ended.

Again, I loved Mass Effect 3. I love the series. But most importantly, I love the characters my play-through has shaped and chiseled. To have just about no closure on their stories is heart breaking.

[Prism]

Just a thought I had (sorry if I'm late to the party with this):
Yes, we do want closure, but it wouldn't be such a bad idea for Shepard not to reunite with everyone(/anyone) in the end. Cliche-ish feel aside, more importantly I think it devalues those last conversations a bit. But I can't say I'm leaning either way.

[Theronyll Itholien]

@Prismvg

I don't see how it devalues those goodbyes. In fact, it makes a reunion even more powerful ("SHEPARD! YOU MADE IT!").

Still, I don't care if he dies. Hardly anyone here does from what I've read. But merely an epilogue explaining what happened with the companions won't cut it either, unlike what some suggested. The crappiness of the ending isn't just Shep's death followed by a meaningless cutscene. It's the whole part exactly from the moment on when Harbinger's beam connects with Shepard.

[improperdancing]

L337fool wrote...

Don't Worry EA likes money so I'm sure they will have Bioware draw you an ending in crayons. So sad over what the gaming community has degraded to.

An ending in crayons can't be any worse than the one we got.

For example, here's a much better ending than the one BioWare gave us, and it's a joke: www.youtube.com/watch

[Unlimited Pain2]

Yeah, as I said it's not about who lives or dies - it's about closure. I'm okay with Shepard dying, I even EXPECTED it. But how did the end affect everyone else?

[Prism]

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

@Prismvg

I don't see how it devalues those goodbyes. In fact, it makes a reunion even more powerful ("SHEPARD! YOU MADE IT!").

Still, I don't care if he dies. Hardly anyone here does from what I've read. But merely an epilogue explaining what happened with the companions won't cut it either, unlike what some suggested. The crappiness of the ending isn't just Shep's death followed by a meaningless cutscene. It's the whole part exactly from the moment on when Harbinger's beam connects with Shepard.

True, the reunion would feel pretty good. My idea was more from a replay value point. If you know those are the last conversations, they're more powerful, rather than talk to them and think at the same time "yea, we'll talk later".

Leaving us to speculate may have been a good idea if it was done properly (aka coherence), and maybe they can still do it, but they'd have to find a good balance between doing that and providing some closure.

Modifié par Prismvg, 26 mars 2012 - 12:05 .

[Theronyll Itholien]

@improperdancing

After the abusing my mental state took from the ME3 ending, it somehow found comfort in the closure that link gave. And it was a joke.

Yup, ME3's ending IS that bad.

[galbyman]

Just beat the game. How do you go from game about an epic war to a limiting philosophical discussion about the future that restricts everyone in the galaxy down to three choices?

[Sans Changer]

It is possible that ME3 ends exactly the way it is supposed to AND the Indoctrination Theory or other theories are still correct.

Suppose Shepard was being indoctrinated, and the player has made a choice. How can DLC follow on such varied options (choose the Reapers or remain independent)?

The answer: in the DLC, you won't be playing Shepard. Shepard's part of Mass Effect DOES end with ME3. Maybe in the DLC we'll be playing James Vega, who was supposed to be a "new player's perspective" anyway. Maybe he is the one who will save the day in the end... and then the ending will either show a recovered Shepard with his love interest... or a funeral for "the hero who failed at the very end"?

I don't know how many people that would satisfy, but it would do the job for me. It would also allow BioWare to say, "You see, ME3 really was the ending of Shepard's story. His part was finished when he accepted indoctrination or resisted. But actually defeating the Reapers was another's responsibility."

Although I think we can all agree that it would be Garrus who would finish the job He was with me on that last mad dash... but he doesn't appear with the Normandy at the end. That's because he's too busy kicking Reaper ass.

Modifié par Sans Changer, 26 mars 2012 - 12:17 .

[improperdancing]

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

@improperdancing

After the abusing my mental state took from the ME3 ending, it somehow found comfort in the closure that link gave. And it was a joke.

Yup, ME3's ending IS that bad.

I maintain that if Mass Effect 3 had used the Animal House ending linked above, it would have gone down as the greatest game of all-time.

[Federelis]

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Yeah, as I said it's not about who lives or dies - it's about closure. I'm okay with Shepard dying, I even EXPECTED it. But how did the end affect everyone else?

Agreed. No right amount of closure here. Seeing three or so comrades staring into an hopeful landscape and actually integrating the normandy in this shot as one of the crew, with its mission fullfilled is technically a good concept. But you don't end there in your skript after a mere minute. That's an artful ending for a 90minute movie, not something akin to a long running, years spanning series. Then it's just crude in it's shortness.

[->SPOILER for Battlestar Galactica]
Also, just stranding the crew on an isolated planet without their tech to begin anew is so... Battlestar Galactica like. Even the music right before the credits cut in matches Bear McCrearys great scores.
Well I also didn't like the rushed ending on that series. But at least it was their decision to go low tech. And it took a few minutes more to come to this conclusion.

EDIT
... which is still dumb in both cases. Why low tech? Don't throw away knowledge, grow up and learn to deal with it's dangers. So Mass Relays were an instrument for the Reapers; who cares when you overthrow them and learn from it?

[Still Spoilers+ for Lost]
Well, it seems obvious the devs took a lot of inspiration from Lost. Also very much from Battlestar Galactica. And they combined both of their weakest points of the finales. Shepard dies kinda in vain( over a cork in a cave), crew is on its own on a harsh unknown planet.

It's weird for weirdness sake. I loved the moments with him and Anderson there or just the stunning vista when the citadel opened and a short sense of piece settled in. That's pure gold. Straight forward storytelling is nothing to be ashamed for. Twists like the star child and the crash are overrated. It takes a good writer to make mundane regrouping powerful, and BioWare proved very capable in that regard.

It wouldn't be the usual kind of ending, we just know that. I still have a strange kind of trust in them.

Modifié par Federelis, 26 mars 2012 - 12:36 .

[improperdancing]

Federelis wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Yeah, as I said it's not about who lives or dies - it's about closure. I'm okay with Shepard dying, I even EXPECTED it. But how did the end affect everyone else?

Agreed. No right amount of closure here. Seeing three or so comrades staring into an hopeful landscape and actually integrating the normandy in this shot as one of the crew, with its mission fullfilled is technically a good concept. But you don't end there in your skript after a mere minute. That's an artful ending for a 90minute movie, not something akin to a long running, years spanning series. Then it's just crude in it's shortness.

[->SPOILER for Battlestar Galactica]
Also, just stranding the crew on an isolated planet without their tech to begin anew is so... Battlestar Galactica like. Even the music right before the credits cut in matches Bear McCrearys great scores.
Well I also didn't like the rushed ending on that series. But at least it was their decision to go low tech. And it took a few minutes more to come to this conclusion.

Yeah, but in the BS:G finale, they had already been on Earth for quite some time, and thus they spent the final few episodes wrapping up all the major (and most of the minor) plot threads.  I agree the ending to Galactica wasn't perfect, but it provided quite a bit of closure for every major character.  I wouldn't say I was dissatisfied so much as I just didn't particularly care for the direction they took at the end.  As far as closure goes, the ending of Galactica was pretty satisfying.  

[Jamesld]

 Mass Effect as a series provided a great gameplay expereience. In light of the Mass Effect 3 ending, in my opinion it was good. This is because although people are kicking off due to the similarities of the end scenes I think that this is rather irrational. The whole point of bringing the choice concept to the game is so that the gamer can make the story their own. This is what occured in each ending as it was a matter of remembering the consequences you've created before and during this event. For example I played as a paragon Shepard saving everything and everybody from 1 and 2 and did all the paragon options available in 3. However I could not save the Illusive Man somehow. At the end I chose the middle big 'super paragon' option merging the synthetics and organics to form a new hybrid.

My only problem is, and I do hope that Bioware are reading this is that you have sold out and are trying to turn your series into something which bleeds the gamers of their cash unwillingly. I will use my playthrough as the analogy for Bioware's actions. Commander Shepard = Bioware. Illusive Man=EA/The guy up top who decided that DLC for an ended storyline arc was a good idea. Anderson=The Mass Effect Series. The Kid=Bioware's ethical conscience. To expand, my Shepard thought he was doing the right thing all the way through, but when he met the Illusive man on the final hurdle, Shepard got controlled to kill Anderson as Shepard didn't have enough paragon points (i.e released day 1 DLC that was utterly useless and in no way original or breath-taking and realeasing only 5 multiplayer maps of which you have to activate a premium code for.) And so Shepard got transorted to see the kid. The kid told Shepard that there were 3 choices. The 3 choices as follows from left to right. Top left=The good with a slight hint of renegade (Having a good ending and making it somehow viable by putting in the post credits scene ,where everything was just a story, enabling Bioware to create more story dlc to gain some more petty cash). The middle=Ulitmate Paragon (Having a good ending and becoming the leaders of the best series to date, which would have resulted in people willing to spend more for your future goods) And Renegade (Selling out). Bioware unfortunately chose the top left. Your attemps at securing future sales has now failed. On the other hand, I also think that the game was well contructed and diverse, but however after completing it on insanity and seemingly knowing that story dlc is innevitable I won't be replaying Mass Effect 3 to somehow persaude the Illusive Man that he's deluded. I seriously hope that you guys at Bioware just leave the Mass Effect series as it is and just focus on continuing the multiplayer, perhaps (and this is free business advice) that you create a couple of free maps to the consumers and maybe they'll forgive you. I do sympathise with the aggrevated gamers, however saying that I fail to see what loose ties there are. For me the story seemed very linear and easy to follow.
      

[Jade5233]

First:  To those who are upset about the ending:
On March 26th please send an email to contact@bioware.com
concerning how you feel any DLC concerning the ending to ME3 should be done. Focus on core concepts like "closure" and "filling plot holes". Keep it short, simple, and polite.


Secondly:
POSITIVES (and these comments pertain prior to beam hitting Shepard):
-Intricate storylines that tied in even minor quests from the first and second games. Many permutations occur depending on if you completed the quests and how. Amazing.

-Emotional connection. It was my greatest gripe with ME2--that no one really cared about Shepard, just what she could do for them. The characters made me feel they very much care for her in ME3.
-When NPC characters died, the moments were very moving and poignant.

-Variety of locations for conversations

-Kinnect makes gameplay smoother and more responsive. In playing ME2 again I realized how much I missed it.

-Crewmate interaction and banter was added back in.

-Loved that there was a progression of femShep’s relationship with Kaidan. It wasn’t automatic.

-Loved that Kaidan felt even more like a real person, faults and all. Loved how much his character grew through the game and through the series.

-Inside jokes about the Mako/Hammerhead, Shepard’s dancing, Vega’s previous last name.



NEGATIVES about the Game Before the Ending.
-The journal system is abysmal. I’ve never played an RPG before where the quest tracker doesn’t track its quests.

-The graphics in the intro are below ME2 and ME1 standards.

-Decreasing the conversations choices from 3 to 2 on the dialogue wheel, which decreases our role play of the character.

-Slow motions scenes were difficult to play, especially for biotics since powers were not useable.


CRITICISMS of the ENDING
-Multiplayer mode or sources outside of single player are required to open all endings.

-We were promised a variety of endings depending upon choices made in the saga. We got 3 that all dovetail into one that has very minor variations.

-Regardless of previous choices in the saga, there is no option for a “happy” ending where Shepard survives with his/her love interest.

-It makes no sense that Joker, the Normandy and its crew would be fleeing the battle through a mass relay, especially since it take several hours to get to Sol’s mass relay from Earth.

-Why are characters that were part of Hammer Initiative and that were in the final drive with Shepard when the beam hit, now magically upon the Normandy when the Normandy crashes?

-How was the Citadel (a mass relay) magically transported to Earth?

-The Catalyst does not make sense within the context of the ME universe
-if the Citadel was part of the Star Child, the why didn’t he open the Citdel for Sovereign?
-introduction of a key character/concept into the saga in the last 5 minutes of the game

-Destruction of the mass relays, according previous Mass Effect lore (such as Arrival and ME3’s own codex) should cause destruction of the entire system surrounding it. And all of the mass relays were destroyed. Hence all of the major systems/planets should have been destroyed.

-The Turians and Quarians are trapped in Sol system without a food source and will die of starvation.

-The cured genophage is rendered moot since the vast majority of the male Krogans are trapped the Sol system.

-Galactic cilivilization has been utterly destroyed since it was dependent upon intragalactic commerce and relations. Now each planet/species is stuck in their own system without contact with outside systems.


WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE
-A wider variety of choices/endings. DAO was one game and it had 21 or so endings. A saga of 3 games should at least have that.

-The option (not everyone has to take it) of an ending where Shepard & the love interest of choice can live out their lives together helping to rebuild the war-torn galaxy (or retire).

-Endings that reflect choices made throughout the saga, not just in the last 5 minutes.

-And ending that makes sense within its own context. Not a new concept that was thought up in the last 5 minutes of the game.


My problem with the ending is that not only did my Shepard sacrifice herself, but she did so without any choice in the matter (since all endings are essentially the same) and for a resolution that leaves the galaxy only slightly better than if the Reapers had destroyed it. And for an ending that doesn’t even subscribe to the tenants of physics and lore that were previously established in the Mass Effect universe.

This isn’t acceptable, BioWare. I’ve played KOTOR. I’ve played DA:O. Not to mention ME. I KNOW you can do better than this. You ask for us to trust you. We did. This is what we got. I ask you to prove that you are the company that we thought you were. Set this right for us so we can return to believing in you once again.

Modifié par Jade5233, 26 mars 2012 - 12:32 .

[Theronyll Itholien]

That wall of incoherent dialogue turned me into a drooling nutjob....