23455 réponses à ce sujet

[WCentaur]

I have been thinking a lot about the ending of ME3 because something didn't feel completely right to me. I was upset because it seemed so final and there wasn't any closer. I looked at what some of the people were saying about their theories of the ending were and I tend to agree with them. It makes total sense to me now and I just didn't see it right away from the time of Harbinger to the time of making the choices. I was so caught up in the game emotionally, that it just felt off and not right, which I got upset. Everyone I think for the most part is blowing things out of proportion.

I do see where they are upset about the endings, because I was upset and felt that it was not a good way to end the game. I still feel that there was stuff missing but I am not as upset anymore because things are starting to make sense to me since I am playing all three games all over again from the start.

I want to say thank you Bioware for creating a game that makes you have to really think about things in detail. This is an awesome RPG that I look forward to continuing to play and anymore content you bring out for the game.

Why I got so upset about the ending for the most part was that I was hoping for was to see how the Galaxy actually progressed after a couple of years no matter what my decision was on the end. I figured that I would most likely be dying but thought that there would be scenes showing all the races working together and the Galaxy would move on as long as I didn't rush through the game.

I feel that I have a good ending for the most part but just totally left with a lot of questions because of the ending now and look forward to how you are going to get those questions answered.

I want to say Thank you for a great series and please give me some more.

[MikeC99]

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...
...

What is it that made you think it was a dream? There's no info given to support it. It seems that the main reason to believe the IT is because there's so many plot holes and strange happenings post-reaper-beam. But none of those strange happenings point towards indoctrination based on the lore they've established in the first two games. Sometimes a poorly written sequence and a plot hole is just a poorly written sequence and a plot hole....regardless of how great the rest of the series is.

See this:



A number of the quotes from the codex are from ME2, so there is actually a good history that the endings do deliberately seem to allude to. I'm not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories, but in this case I'm finding it harder to not believe it. How much of that is because I want ot believe it? Fair point - but watch this vid, and the one referred to on that page. I'd argue the case is strong; not irrefutable, but strong.
cheers
MikeC

[Arcani117]

Since you guys have been listening for a while now, how about actually speaking?

[Dalis918]

Personally, I think that what we should do is demand that Bioware make Ending DLC that has Urz run through the beam, eat the godchild then chew on the cables, thus enabling him to use space magic to get rid of all Pyjaks. And the reapers. Then we can give him a good home with treats and rub his belly.... And keep Kelly away from him. No more scale itch on my ship!

Afterall, who doesn't love cuddly cute varren that win you money?

Modifié par Dalis918, 26 mars 2012 - 09:29 .

[Va1us]

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

JackLaVaporiera wrote...

chevyguy87 wrote...

each passing day the indoc theory is making more and more sense and my hope is building to see if its reality or just fan fiction

Sheppy has been stroke by a laser/maser/phaser not by a brainwave, it's armor testify it... and which kind of indoctrination leaves the chance to "destroy" the reapers ?

Indoc theory is only mental masturbation to try and justify an ending that makes no sense at all neither is charming nor leaves a sense of fight and furthermore it doesn't explain nothing.

"One more story" a big huge piece of cow sh...

The choice to destroy the Reapers is Shepard's will to fight.  The VI is lying to you.  Trying to break your will with the lie about the synthethic's.  No synthethic dies because nothing really happens.  The ensuing cutscene is Shepard's mind playing out what he would like to happen according to the info being fed to him.  You pick the renegade option and you win.  You prevail over the Reaper's attempt to indoctrinate you (congratulations) and you wake up right where Harbinger left you for dead.

The main issue with the IT is there's not enough info given to the player to buy into it. We see Joker outrunning the blast, the relays blowing up, your team crash landing on an uninhabited planet, and then a grandfather talking to his grandson in the future. None of this has anything to do with Shepard, so why would it be a part of his indoctrination?

I'm not denying that the IT is creative and would explain away some of the ridiculousness introduced in the last five minutes, but for it to work we'd need another 20 minutes of game after Shepard "wakes up" and some sort of hint that he's being indoctrinated. From everything we've seen, those being indoctrinated never fall into a dream state, they simply hear voices and slowly begin to sympathize with the Reapers.

The attempt to kinda starts in the beginning of the game.  I am of the opinon that it begins in arrival.  The child sticks out like a sore thumb.  No one notices him except for you.  No one.  every time you go in to an unconscious state... the child appears in your dreams, each with a hidden message, basically saying that you can't win.  Attacking your mission on saving everyone.  

Then when the time comes to finish the job, your surroundings are just a mis-mashed of different environs that you have been on.  You think you are in the crucible, but you're not.  The Reaper VI is just pulling what you know, images of what you have seen before to create something new.  Rember the Geth server.  Rember how the Quarians wore masks, why you had to use a gun to disrupt the Reaper virus.  At the end you never really come to your own conclusions except during the discussion with TIM, the Reapers first attempt which you succeed on repelling.  The second attempt... is entirely up to the player. 

Well you do see the child interacting with others at the beginning - he boards a shuttle. As for TIM being an attempt to indoctrinate you, it's a very weak attempt. He comes right out of the gate attacking you, not convincing you. He forces you to shoot Anderson. That seems less like a play to convince you the Reapers are right and more like the workings of a power crazed mad man who has obviously been influenced by the Reapers (in an obviously negative way) There's no positive spin on the Reapers here. You're seeing a man who has been mentally destroyed by the indoctrination process, not someone who has been positively affected by it.

The child gets on the shuttle, but that's it.  No one gestures to him or towards him.  No one helps him up as he obviously struggles to get in.  No body even looks at him.  I agree, TIM was a very poor attempt at indoctrination.  That's why they tried again.  With a VI that takes the form of the child.

[Stonewall_Jack]

I wish the IT would be true, but you get an ending with you crew at some place and there is the endings of the kid and the old guy with the moon... seems a bit far fetched if you take that into account. It does open up DLC to fight the IM still and would that not be a big seller?

Indoctrination by beam, it could be teh real beam the physical attack puts you over the edge and gives it more influence over you, but that does not take away that we still go up with the very convenient teleportation beam... so with that thing full of plot holes and reaper stupidity we move the indoctrination theory further ahead... maybe at the start of the entire last mission... because you know you end up in a system with so many reapers.
It does not explain how the crucible ever managed to find us last minute and that a design managed to survive so many cycles. Super far-fetched.

The Crucible is big deus ex machina... people say no now because it is introduced at the start? My opinion at the start was: oh great... a deus ex machina as soon as the story starts.

I have the whole game to complete it this DEM. It does not take away that some character plots, forming alliances and the Cerberus control story are very well done. The bad ending is staring at you from the beginning as soon as the mighty alien device was introduced on Mars you knew that the ending would never be under your full control and as such the ending that is presented to us makes sense. The crucible is the solution how much variation can one device carry? So IT could change the ending, but it cannot change the fact a similar ending is still the logical consequence or am I missing something? This is why I do not believe in the IT, because the bad ending is predicted to us it makes sense in ME3 it just kills everything that was done in ME1 and ME2.

[Herr Igor]

You want feedback?

I mean, REALLY?

Well, it doesn't get better than this: http://jmstevenson.w...-mass-effect-3/

Modifié par Herr Igor, 26 mars 2012 - 09:39 .

[Unlimited Pain2]

Va1us wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

JackLaVaporiera wrote...

chevyguy87 wrote...

each passing day the indoc theory is making more and more sense and my hope is building to see if its reality or just fan fiction

Sheppy has been stroke by a laser/maser/phaser not by a brainwave, it's armor testify it... and which kind of indoctrination leaves the chance to "destroy" the reapers ?

Indoc theory is only mental masturbation to try and justify an ending that makes no sense at all neither is charming nor leaves a sense of fight and furthermore it doesn't explain nothing.

"One more story" a big huge piece of cow sh...

The choice to destroy the Reapers is Shepard's will to fight.  The VI is lying to you.  Trying to break your will with the lie about the synthethic's.  No synthethic dies because nothing really happens.  The ensuing cutscene is Shepard's mind playing out what he would like to happen according to the info being fed to him.  You pick the renegade option and you win.  You prevail over the Reaper's attempt to indoctrinate you (congratulations) and you wake up right where Harbinger left you for dead.

The main issue with the IT is there's not enough info given to the player to buy into it. We see Joker outrunning the blast, the relays blowing up, your team crash landing on an uninhabited planet, and then a grandfather talking to his grandson in the future. None of this has anything to do with Shepard, so why would it be a part of his indoctrination?

I'm not denying that the IT is creative and would explain away some of the ridiculousness introduced in the last five minutes, but for it to work we'd need another 20 minutes of game after Shepard "wakes up" and some sort of hint that he's being indoctrinated. From everything we've seen, those being indoctrinated never fall into a dream state, they simply hear voices and slowly begin to sympathize with the Reapers.

The attempt to kinda starts in the beginning of the game.  I am of the opinon that it begins in arrival.  The child sticks out like a sore thumb.  No one notices him except for you.  No one.  every time you go in to an unconscious state... the child appears in your dreams, each with a hidden message, basically saying that you can't win.  Attacking your mission on saving everyone.  

Then when the time comes to finish the job, your surroundings are just a mis-mashed of different environs that you have been on.  You think you are in the crucible, but you're not.  The Reaper VI is just pulling what you know, images of what you have seen before to create something new.  Rember the Geth server.  Rember how the Quarians wore masks, why you had to use a gun to disrupt the Reaper virus.  At the end you never really come to your own conclusions except during the discussion with TIM, the Reapers first attempt which you succeed on repelling.  The second attempt... is entirely up to the player. 

Well you do see the child interacting with others at the beginning - he boards a shuttle. As for TIM being an attempt to indoctrinate you, it's a very weak attempt. He comes right out of the gate attacking you, not convincing you. He forces you to shoot Anderson. That seems less like a play to convince you the Reapers are right and more like the workings of a power crazed mad man who has obviously been influenced by the Reapers (in an obviously negative way) There's no positive spin on the Reapers here. You're seeing a man who has been mentally destroyed by the indoctrination process, not someone who has been positively affected by it.

The child gets on the shuttle, but that's it.  No one gestures to him or towards him.  No one helps him up as he obviously struggles to get in.  No body even looks at him.  I agree, TIM was a very poor attempt at indoctrination.  That's why they tried again.  With a VI that takes the form of the child.

Actually the soldiers pretty clearly wait until he's all the way in to close the door. They just stand outside the door with their guns at the ready until the child is done boarding, then they close the door. Nobody else is boarding the shuttle at this time and there is no other reason to wait an extra minute or so to close the door, yet they do. Then, as soon as the childs in, they close the door. I hope I'm not coming off as overly aggressive, as I think the IT is pretty creative and if it was the intended meaning of the ending, I think it would have been great if it had been implemented better. That being said, I just can't subscribe to something so detatched from the rest of the game with no "real" follow up that gives some form of closure.

[Knuxson]

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

JackLaVaporiera wrote...

chevyguy87 wrote...

each passing day the indoc theory is making more and more sense and my hope is building to see if its reality or just fan fiction

Sheppy has been stroke by a laser/maser/phaser not by a brainwave, it's armor testify it... and which kind of indoctrination leaves the chance to "destroy" the reapers ?

Indoc theory is only mental masturbation to try and justify an ending that makes no sense at all neither is charming nor leaves a sense of fight and furthermore it doesn't explain nothing.

"One more story" a big huge piece of cow sh...

The choice to destroy the Reapers is Shepard's will to fight.  The VI is lying to you.  Trying to break your will with the lie about the synthethic's.  No synthethic dies because nothing really happens.  The ensuing cutscene is Shepard's mind playing out what he would like to happen according to the info being fed to him.  You pick the renegade option and you win.  You prevail over the Reaper's attempt to indoctrinate you (congratulations) and you wake up right where Harbinger left you for dead.

The main issue with the IT is there's not enough info given to the player to buy into it. We see Joker outrunning the blast, the relays blowing up, your team crash landing on an uninhabited planet, and then a grandfather talking to his grandson in the future. None of this has anything to do with Shepard, so why would it be a part of his indoctrination?

I'm not denying that the IT is creative and would explain away some of the ridiculousness introduced in the last five minutes, but for it to work we'd need another 20 minutes of game after Shepard "wakes up" and some sort of hint that he's being indoctrinated. From everything we've seen, those being indoctrinated never fall into a dream state, they simply hear voices and slowly begin to sympathize with the Reapers.

The attempt to kinda starts in the beginning of the game.  I am of the opinon that it begins in arrival.  The child sticks out like a sore thumb.  No one notices him except for you.  No one.  every time you go in to an unconscious state... the child appears in your dreams, each with a hidden message, basically saying that you can't win.  Attacking your mission on saving everyone.  

Then when the time comes to finish the job, your surroundings are just a mis-mashed of different environs that you have been on.  You think you are in the crucible, but you're not.  The Reaper VI is just pulling what you know, images of what you have seen before to create something new.  Rember the Geth server.  Rember how the Quarians wore masks, why you had to use a gun to disrupt the Reaper virus.  At the end you never really come to your own conclusions except during the discussion with TIM, the Reapers first attempt which you succeed on repelling.  The second attempt... is entirely up to the player. 

Well you do see the child interacting with others at the beginning - he boards a shuttle. As for TIM being an attempt to indoctrinate you, it's a very weak attempt. He comes right out of the gate attacking you, not convincing you. He forces you to shoot Anderson. That seems less like a play to convince you the Reapers are right and more like the workings of a power crazed mad man who has obviously been influenced by the Reapers (in an obviously negative way) There's no positive spin on the Reapers here. You're seeing a man who has been mentally destroyed by the indoctrination process, not someone who has been positively affected by it.

The IT thing really has me thinking now.  The first time you see the kid is in that air duct and then Anderson interrupts you and the kid is gone when you look back into the duct.  I just thought the kid crawled further into the duct, but what if Anderson just shook Shepard out of what was going on in his own mind.  Further, you said above that others interact with the kid because he gets on the shuttle, but no one actually seems to notice the kid.  Just because Shepard "sees" him get on does not mean he was actually there.

Of course, this all could be just fans grasping at straws for some measure of hope.  The kid in Shepard's dreams may just simply be Shepard having difficulty dealing with death.  If this is the case, then the endings were very disappointing.  If the IT is correct, this actually might be pretty interesting to see unfold.

[chevyguy87]

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

JackLaVaporiera wrote...

chevyguy87 wrote...

each passing day the indoc theory is making more and more sense and my hope is building to see if its reality or just fan fiction

Sheppy has been stroke by a laser/maser/phaser not by a brainwave, it's armor testify it... and which kind of indoctrination leaves the chance to "destroy" the reapers ?

Indoc theory is only mental masturbation to try and justify an ending that makes no sense at all neither is charming nor leaves a sense of fight and furthermore it doesn't explain nothing.

"One more story" a big huge piece of cow sh...

The choice to destroy the Reapers is Shepard's will to fight.  The VI is lying to you.  Trying to break your will with the lie about the synthethic's.  No synthethic dies because nothing really happens.  The ensuing cutscene is Shepard's mind playing out what he would like to happen according to the info being fed to him.  You pick the renegade option and you win.  You prevail over the Reaper's attempt to indoctrinate you (congratulations) and you wake up right where Harbinger left you for dead.

The main issue with the IT is there's not enough info given to the player to buy into it. We see Joker outrunning the blast, the relays blowing up, your team crash landing on an uninhabited planet, and then a grandfather talking to his grandson in the future. None of this has anything to do with Shepard, so why would it be a part of his indoctrination?

I'm not denying that the IT is creative and would explain away some of the ridiculousness introduced in the last five minutes, but for it to work we'd need another 20 minutes of game after Shepard "wakes up" and some sort of hint that he's being indoctrinated. From everything we've seen, those being indoctrinated never fall into a dream state, they simply hear voices and slowly begin to sympathize with the Reapers.

The attempt to kinda starts in the beginning of the game.  I am of the opinon that it begins in arrival.  The child sticks out like a sore thumb.  No one notices him except for you.  No one.  every time you go in to an unconscious state... the child appears in your dreams, each with a hidden message, basically saying that you can't win.  Attacking your mission on saving everyone.  

Then when the time comes to finish the job, your surroundings are just a mis-mashed of different environs that you have been on.  You think you are in the crucible, but you're not.  The Reaper VI is just pulling what you know, images of what you have seen before to create something new.  Rember the Geth server.  Rember how the Quarians wore masks, why you had to use a gun to disrupt the Reaper virus.  At the end you never really come to your own conclusions except during the discussion with TIM, the Reapers first attempt which you succeed on repelling.  The second attempt... is entirely up to the player. 

Well you do see the child interacting with others at the beginning - he boards a shuttle. As for TIM being an attempt to indoctrinate you, it's a very weak attempt. He comes right out of the gate attacking you, not convincing you. He forces you to shoot Anderson. That seems less like a play to convince you the Reapers are right and more like the workings of a power crazed mad man who has obviously been influenced by the Reapers (in an obviously negative way) There's no positive spin on the Reapers here. You're seeing a man who has been mentally destroyed by the indoctrination process, not someone who has been positively affected by it.

pay close attention to when shepard shoots anderson there is the final que that the whole sequence didnt happen when they both sit down after anderson says his final words and passes on shepard is bleeding from his/her LEFT side funny because you "shot" anderson in the LEFT side and shepard is bleeding anderson wasnt in my humble opinion that was the bright red flag that led me to believe that it was all in shepards mind

[nitefyre410]

  This has been said but a final boss battle would have been a nice touch.  This ending  and everything that Shepard and crew have been  brought them to this final point. I see it playing out some like this... 

A boss battle would have been great a battle mirrored  after the Battle with Saren/Sovereign at  end of ME 1.  Part 1 would be a puzzle like Battle with Harbinger using the all the war assets you acquired to damage Harbinger to point of being critically wounded. This can be down through  ground forces, air strikes and orbital strikes   Once  Harbinger is wounded badly. The party makes for  Conduit and the  Citedal  one  inside you have some random battles with stronger versions of regular enemies. TIM shows up, you have a dialogue with him at the end of the dialogue  TIM gets wounded during the exhange.  Shepard opens then opens  Citedal arms.   Then the  party and Shepard are taken meet  The Catalyst  and it explains it logic.   Shepard at this point rejects the Catalyst logic with epic "World of  cardboard Speech."     A wounded Harbinger takes  TIM's Body. Part 2 of the fight
 begins.   That battle ends-  Shepard and the party are exhausted  but  are still standing .  The Catalyst
starts sending wave after wave enemies but the party keeps fighting.   Then the Normandy shows up with the other characters from other games,  Jack, Miranda, Samara, Ashley/Kaiden, James, all of them the join the fight.  This is when Loyalty and EMS comes into play... the higher  the better chance for survival. If you were able to  sway  TIM in the earlier conversation before Harbinger takes over his body... his
dying words could be something like...

'They will never stop fighting,  if  you kill them, there will be others and more.. They know that, Shepard knows that's, s/he is not fighting for just there own survival but the future, a future willing to die for..  I sold my soul, just to get  this far... we'll ...never ..stop."     If  unable to  talk TIM then it would be Anderson's final words after being wounded by a  Harbinger controlled TIM.  If you were able to talk  TIM down before  Harbinger  takes over his body then you get a different dialogue simlar to the one already used after the battle.

The Catalyst stops the onslaught,  depending on EMS depends on how many people are alive  or dead.   The  Catalyst then offers its solutions but with a high enough EMS and most of the cast alive.  Shepard can reject and point outside... to show that they are not only holding their own but turning the tide.   Then The Catalyst  for the first time in eons pauses and thinks... and ask why?    Now for dialogue with  choices  a high enough EMS and influence you can explain to the  Catalyst why its wrong and it will see that its solution is the cause of the
problem convince it to leave or finish the fight and destroy it.
  

This is how I see the final Boss Fight playing out. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 26 mars 2012 - 09:50 .

[Unlimited Pain2]

Knuxson wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

JackLaVaporiera wrote...

chevyguy87 wrote...

each passing day the indoc theory is making more and more sense and my hope is building to see if its reality or just fan fiction

Sheppy has been stroke by a laser/maser/phaser not by a brainwave, it's armor testify it... and which kind of indoctrination leaves the chance to "destroy" the reapers ?

Indoc theory is only mental masturbation to try and justify an ending that makes no sense at all neither is charming nor leaves a sense of fight and furthermore it doesn't explain nothing.

"One more story" a big huge piece of cow sh...

The choice to destroy the Reapers is Shepard's will to fight.  The VI is lying to you.  Trying to break your will with the lie about the synthethic's.  No synthethic dies because nothing really happens.  The ensuing cutscene is Shepard's mind playing out what he would like to happen according to the info being fed to him.  You pick the renegade option and you win.  You prevail over the Reaper's attempt to indoctrinate you (congratulations) and you wake up right where Harbinger left you for dead.

The main issue with the IT is there's not enough info given to the player to buy into it. We see Joker outrunning the blast, the relays blowing up, your team crash landing on an uninhabited planet, and then a grandfather talking to his grandson in the future. None of this has anything to do with Shepard, so why would it be a part of his indoctrination?

I'm not denying that the IT is creative and would explain away some of the ridiculousness introduced in the last five minutes, but for it to work we'd need another 20 minutes of game after Shepard "wakes up" and some sort of hint that he's being indoctrinated. From everything we've seen, those being indoctrinated never fall into a dream state, they simply hear voices and slowly begin to sympathize with the Reapers.

The attempt to kinda starts in the beginning of the game.  I am of the opinon that it begins in arrival.  The child sticks out like a sore thumb.  No one notices him except for you.  No one.  every time you go in to an unconscious state... the child appears in your dreams, each with a hidden message, basically saying that you can't win.  Attacking your mission on saving everyone.  

Then when the time comes to finish the job, your surroundings are just a mis-mashed of different environs that you have been on.  You think you are in the crucible, but you're not.  The Reaper VI is just pulling what you know, images of what you have seen before to create something new.  Rember the Geth server.  Rember how the Quarians wore masks, why you had to use a gun to disrupt the Reaper virus.  At the end you never really come to your own conclusions except during the discussion with TIM, the Reapers first attempt which you succeed on repelling.  The second attempt... is entirely up to the player. 

Well you do see the child interacting with others at the beginning - he boards a shuttle. As for TIM being an attempt to indoctrinate you, it's a very weak attempt. He comes right out of the gate attacking you, not convincing you. He forces you to shoot Anderson. That seems less like a play to convince you the Reapers are right and more like the workings of a power crazed mad man who has obviously been influenced by the Reapers (in an obviously negative way) There's no positive spin on the Reapers here. You're seeing a man who has been mentally destroyed by the indoctrination process, not someone who has been positively affected by it.

The IT thing really has me thinking now.  The first time you see the kid is in that air duct and then Anderson interrupts you and the kid is gone when you look back into the duct.  I just thought the kid crawled further into the duct, but what if Anderson just shook Shepard out of what was going on in his own mind.  Further, you said above that others interact with the kid because he gets on the shuttle, but no one actually seems to notice the kid.  Just because Shepard "sees" him get on does not mean he was actually there.

Of course, this all could be just fans grasping at straws for some measure of hope.  The kid in Shepard's dreams may just simply be Shepard having difficulty dealing with death.  If this is the case, then the endings were very disappointing.  If the IT is correct, this actually might be pretty interesting to see unfold.

Well like I said, the soldiers do seem to wait for the child to finish boarding before closing the door when there's no other reason to keep the door open. The moment the child is finished boarding, they close the door. As for Anderson not noticing the child, the child was a few feet into the vent. Unless he was pretty close to a straight on shot with the vent he wouldn't have seen him. I think the bigger question is: if Anderson heard Shepard talking with no response, wouldn't he have said something? Asked who he was talking to? Although I suppose one could say 'why didn't Anderson comment on it in general?', I.E. "Who was that?" or "Where did he go?"

[chevyguy87]

nitefyre410 wrote...

  This has been said but a final boss battle would have been a nice touch.  This ending  and everything that Shepard and crew have been  brought them to this final point. I see it playing out some like this... 

i was honestly hoping we would be able to nuke Harbinger in the face i was actually surprised this game did not have a final boss fight but who knows at this point

[Va1us]

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...

Va1us wrote...

JackLaVaporiera wrote...

chevyguy87 wrote...

each passing day the indoc theory is making more and more sense and my hope is building to see if its reality or just fan fiction

Sheppy has been stroke by a laser/maser/phaser not by a brainwave, it's armor testify it... and which kind of indoctrination leaves the chance to "destroy" the reapers ?

Indoc theory is only mental masturbation to try and justify an ending that makes no sense at all neither is charming nor leaves a sense of fight and furthermore it doesn't explain nothing.

"One more story" a big huge piece of cow sh...

The choice to destroy the Reapers is Shepard's will to fight.  The VI is lying to you.  Trying to break your will with the lie about the synthethic's.  No synthethic dies because nothing really happens.  The ensuing cutscene is Shepard's mind playing out what he would like to happen according to the info being fed to him.  You pick the renegade option and you win.  You prevail over the Reaper's attempt to indoctrinate you (congratulations) and you wake up right where Harbinger left you for dead.

The main issue with the IT is there's not enough info given to the player to buy into it. We see Joker outrunning the blast, the relays blowing up, your team crash landing on an uninhabited planet, and then a grandfather talking to his grandson in the future. None of this has anything to do with Shepard, so why would it be a part of his indoctrination?

I'm not denying that the IT is creative and would explain away some of the ridiculousness introduced in the last five minutes, but for it to work we'd need another 20 minutes of game after Shepard "wakes up" and some sort of hint that he's being indoctrinated. From everything we've seen, those being indoctrinated never fall into a dream state, they simply hear voices and slowly begin to sympathize with the Reapers.

The attempt to kinda starts in the beginning of the game.  I am of the opinon that it begins in arrival.  The child sticks out like a sore thumb.  No one notices him except for you.  No one.  every time you go in to an unconscious state... the child appears in your dreams, each with a hidden message, basically saying that you can't win.  Attacking your mission on saving everyone.  

Then when the time comes to finish the job, your surroundings are just a mis-mashed of different environs that you have been on.  You think you are in the crucible, but you're not.  The Reaper VI is just pulling what you know, images of what you have seen before to create something new.  Rember the Geth server.  Rember how the Quarians wore masks, why you had to use a gun to disrupt the Reaper virus.  At the end you never really come to your own conclusions except during the discussion with TIM, the Reapers first attempt which you succeed on repelling.  The second attempt... is entirely up to the player. 

Well you do see the child interacting with others at the beginning - he boards a shuttle. As for TIM being an attempt to indoctrinate you, it's a very weak attempt. He comes right out of the gate attacking you, not convincing you. He forces you to shoot Anderson. That seems less like a play to convince you the Reapers are right and more like the workings of a power crazed mad man who has obviously been influenced by the Reapers (in an obviously negative way) There's no positive spin on the Reapers here. You're seeing a man who has been mentally destroyed by the indoctrination process, not someone who has been positively affected by it.

The child gets on the shuttle, but that's it.  No one gestures to him or towards him.  No one helps him up as he obviously struggles to get in.  No body even looks at him.  I agree, TIM was a very poor attempt at indoctrination.  That's why they tried again.  With a VI that takes the form of the child.

Actually the soldiers pretty clearly wait until he's all the way in to close the door. They just stand outside the door with their guns at the ready until the child is done boarding, then they close the door. Nobody else is boarding the shuttle at this time and there is no other reason to wait an extra minute or so to close the door, yet they do. Then, as soon as the childs in, they close the door. I hope I'm not coming off as overly aggressive, as I think the IT is pretty creative and if it was the intended meaning of the ending, I think it would have been great if it had been implemented better. That being said, I just can't subscribe to something so detatched from the rest of the game with no "real" follow up that gives some form of closure.

I find you to be very reasonable :-).  For that I respect you.  I guess we will all finally know for sure come April.  Can't wait.

[chevyguy87]

@Unlimited Pain2
&
@Va1us

i would like to thank you gentlemen for keeping this matter civilized and for each stating valid points discussions like the one are why i joined this forum to converse with mature civil people

[FelipeJoker]

 First of all: Congratulations Bioware on this awesome game. This is the most immersive game I´ve ever played, and loved every second of it... Until the ending, of course.

I also believe that this endings were never supposed to be the real endings. They were made exactly for this: For Biowar to recieve our feedback, and then make the perfect endings, the ones that we, the fans, wanted.

You did a good job to get people speaking, btw...

So, my opinions on how to make the endings better:

- Go with the Indoctrination Theory,  or rewrite the whole ending since Harbringer arrival. 

- We want what we had in Mass Effect 2. We want to see our squadmates in action, and not random soldiers on the radio. (I would really like to be able to choose what would each squadmember do, like choosing who would shield me against that little bugs in ME2 - Samara? Jack? Who do I trust the most? Can I be wrong, and maybe die for this?
Or at least give us feedback: let us see what Kaidan is doing with his squad, Jack´s students shielding our soldiers, Kasumi working on the crucible... I don´t care if they get only 3 seconds each! But I want to know what they are doing. 

- We want a boss. And it has to be Harbringer, and we want a big fight. I don´t care if we will fight inside it, or if we are going to call all weapons from our friends and take that thing down, but we must be able to do so.

- Different endings. I mean really different endings. Including the worst ever and the perfect one, and obviously, this one has Sheppard alive, AND NO MASS RELAYS ARE DESTROYED. (they can be destroyed if your crucible is not fully built)

- Again, let us see our squadmates status after the Boss fight. Are they alive? Dead? Liara returned Thessia and started rebuilding? Tali got her house in Rannoch? You can make all of them appear, and leave for last the one that has Shepard with LI.

- Also, we need to know the consequenses of our choices. The Krogan are flourishing with the genophage cured? Killing the geth was a good Idea? Bad? What about the Rachni?

You did such a good job in ME2,  that you really made us want your high standards again. I know you won´t disappoint us. As I know you have better ideas than us for really epic endings.


At last, my perfect ending:

                  Sheppard can only win by choosing to destroy the reapers, and by doing so, saving himself from indoctrination. He then find a way to go back to earth. There he finds his squadmates that heal him, and get him back in his armor. He then tells them that in a few minutes, the Cidatel is going to unleash a huge EMP that is going to kill all the reapers, but that wont happen if the reapers destroy the Cidatel first. Harbringer himself has started movind towards the Citadel to destroy it.
                   Then your war assets help you by protecting the Cidatel from the Reapers already in the space. But Harbringer has to be stopped. And the only way to do so is by getting a few soldiers inside it and blow key elements of its structure. These soldiers are, of course, Sheppard and his crew. ( and you can select what each of them will do).
                   After a ride with Cortez, Sheppard and his 2 best squadmates get inside the reaper, and face the "boss" (get creative here) in its core, while your other friends are destroying its beams, flight controls...
                  Sheppard wins, gets rescued just in time, as the EMP wave ( that will not kill the upgraded Geth and EDI) gets fired. Earth is saved, you see Miranda, Jacob, Kasumi, and the others cheering. The wave goes from Mass Relay to Mass Relay and kill every reaper in the galaxy.
                  Then the cutscenes of the future of your squadmembers start. You can see Garrus by the sea shore, Tali in her house on Ranoch, Joker hugging EDI... Your LI has the last cutscene and the longer one, with Sheppard, where you can choose your answers as you like.

Thank you for reading. 

I´m really eager to see the new ending. At least we know that it almost can´t get worse.. ;D

[darkway1]

Peregrin25 wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

My issue with the IT is that if it was true then why won't Bioware simply say it to be true,after all Shepard wakes up and what happens next is anyone's guess,they aren't give anything away,in fact they will receive a bombardment of praise for being super clever ..........instead Bioware remains silent which suggests to me that IT is sadly a fan made concept.

Thing is if they keep it hush hush. all the more awesome it would be. That is what I would do if I worked for them

giving gamers a clifhanger ending and then to come back and be like, BAM gotcha.

Some part of me thinks they did this on purpose. Knew exactly the kind of feed back they were going to get reguardless of what other supposed leaked posts and or tweets have stated. I think it is actually part of an elaborate publicity stunt.

I sure hope your right :innocent:

[augdawg79]

Mass Effect 3 99/100
Multiplayer 9/10
The Ending 1/10.

I'm not one of the 75 critics who gave the game a perfect score, but I spend over 150 hours and ALOT of money on these games. I DEMAND answers and a worthy ending, or I will stop purchasing your products.

Thank you.

[Peregrin25]

darkway1 wrote...

Peregrin25 wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

My issue with the IT is that if it was true then why won't Bioware simply say it to be true,after all Shepard wakes up and what happens next is anyone's guess,they aren't give anything away,in fact they will receive a bombardment of praise for being super clever ..........instead Bioware remains silent which suggests to me that IT is sadly a fan made concept.

Thing is if they keep it hush hush. all the more awesome it would be. That is what I would do if I worked for them

giving gamers a clifhanger ending and then to come back and be like, BAM gotcha.

Some part of me thinks they did this on purpose. Knew exactly the kind of feed back they were going to get reguardless of what other supposed leaked posts and or tweets have stated. I think it is actually part of an elaborate publicity stunt.

I sure hope your right :innocent:

I do too lol

[Cigarette Smoking Man]

Give us a typical Bioware ending, guys.

Put a bow on it and this game is one of the greatest gaming experiences ever.

[Benchpress610]

This fiasco even made it to The Wall Street Journal.

http://blogs.wsj.com...tarted-a-furor/

Although I don't agree with some of the points the author makes. It's good reading

[AwefulShot]

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...


Well you do see the child interacting with others at the beginning - he boards a shuttle. As for TIM being an attempt to indoctrinate you, it's a very weak attempt. He comes right out of the gate attacking you, not convincing you. He forces you to shoot Anderson. That seems less like a play to convince you the Reapers are right and more like the workings of a power crazed mad man who has obviously been influenced by the Reapers (in an obviously negative way) There's no positive spin on the Reapers here. You're seeing a man who has been mentally destroyed by the indoctrination process, not someone who has been positively affected by it.

The argument goes that no body seems to notice the kid - including Anderson when Shep first sees him.  Now given Sheps previous adventures just leaving the kid seems slightly out of character.  Meaning there should have been an option to either (A) follow Anderson immediately or ( go renegade and attempt to find the kid.  So even at the start Shep is having visions.  

Once on the citadel (or not actually on the citadel as IT suggests), neither Anderson or TIM are actually there.  Anderson is never shot according to IT.  They are merely Shep internalising his own struggle.  Or so IT goes...

[Peregrin25]

AwefulShot wrote...

Unlimited Pain2 wrote...


Well you do see the child interacting with others at the beginning - he boards a shuttle. As for TIM being an attempt to indoctrinate you, it's a very weak attempt. He comes right out of the gate attacking you, not convincing you. He forces you to shoot Anderson. That seems less like a play to convince you the Reapers are right and more like the workings of a power crazed mad man who has obviously been influenced by the Reapers (in an obviously negative way) There's no positive spin on the Reapers here. You're seeing a man who has been mentally destroyed by the indoctrination process, not someone who has been positively affected by it.

The argument goes that no body seems to notice the kid - including Anderson when Shep first sees him.  Now given Sheps previous adventures just leaving the kid seems slightly out of character.  Meaning there should have been an option to either (A) follow Anderson immediately or ( go renegade and attempt to find the kid.  So even at the start Shep is having visions.  

Once on the citadel (or not actually on the citadel as IT suggests), neither Anderson or TIM are actually there.  Anderson is never shot according to IT.  They are merely Shep internalising his own struggle.  Or so IT goes...

That's almost exatcly what I took from those scenes. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Unlimited Pain2]

Peregrin25 wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Peregrin25 wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

My issue with the IT is that if it was true then why won't Bioware simply say it to be true,after all Shepard wakes up and what happens next is anyone's guess,they aren't give anything away,in fact they will receive a bombardment of praise for being super clever ..........instead Bioware remains silent which suggests to me that IT is sadly a fan made concept.

Thing is if they keep it hush hush. all the more awesome it would be. That is what I would do if I worked for them

giving gamers a clifhanger ending and then to come back and be like, BAM gotcha.

Some part of me thinks they did this on purpose. Knew exactly the kind of feed back they were going to get reguardless of what other supposed leaked posts and or tweets have stated. I think it is actually part of an elaborate publicity stunt.

I sure hope your right :innocent:

I do too lol

Wouldn't this also be somewhat of a slap in the face to fans? If they confirm it without releasing some form of DLC to finish up the story then they haven't truly "finished Shepards story" like they claimed ME3 would. If they confirm the IT and release DLC then doesn't that mean they released an unfinished game? Regardless of whether or not one has to pay for the DLC it still alienates those without an internet connection (all 12 of  them, but still) It seems like bad business.