23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Silvair]

improperdancing wrote...

Silvair wrote...

My thing is...I don't want Bioware to GET RID of the current ending(s). I just want them to be an OPTION, rather than the only possible outcome.

Not me.  I want them to be deleted, the pages on which they were written burned, and all evidence of them scorched from the earth.  And if they want to fire whoever wrote them, I'm okay with that too.

Why?  The current ending would fit perfectly as the "Worst" ending, much like how Shepard and everyone else is dead in ME2's "worst" ending.

There's no reason to flat get rid of the current ending...just make it the "worst" possible option.

[Thanatos144]

Omnike wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Omnike wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
Because thats what the writers wanted. 

And you were like "Okay, it doesn't make sense and the writers clearly didn't think it through. I can't see why people hate it. What the writers wanted doesn't excuse poor writing.

You see the problem is that I completely understand the ending and quite enjoyed it. Now on the forum I am in the minority but I am not believeing I am out of this forum. Most of us who enjoyed this game in its entirety are not the loud ones....Why would we be? I think 50% of those who hate the ending in this thread are those who hate that Shepard dies. 90% dislike the relays being destroyed. These are find to dislike but that doesnt mean there isnt a reason....The catalyst is sending us back to the stone age to save us from self annilation.

No most of us would LIKE if Shepard lives, or if the relays weren't destroyed. We're angry because of the GAPING plot holes in the ending. There are so many things that don't make sense. If you understand the endings so well, please explain it to me. How is there suddenly technology that just kind of blends synthetics and organics? And how does jumping into a beam of energy or light or whatever activate it? How did Anderson beat Shepard to the console. How did Hackett know Shepard was even alive if no one else did? How is there a giant room that just so happened to work with the crucible. How did the VI take on the shape of a child Shepard really only saw a couple of times.

Yes I know what knit picking is. yet those are not plot holes those are just things that all game makers and hell movie producers do. There were very little plot holes.

[Omnike]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Omnike wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Omnike wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
Because thats what the writers wanted. 

And you were like "Okay, it doesn't make sense and the writers clearly didn't think it through. I can't see why people hate it. What the writers wanted doesn't excuse poor writing.

You see the problem is that I completely understand the ending and quite enjoyed it. Now on the forum I am in the minority but I am not believeing I am out of this forum. Most of us who enjoyed this game in its entirety are not the loud ones....Why would we be? I think 50% of those who hate the ending in this thread are those who hate that Shepard dies. 90% dislike the relays being destroyed. These are find to dislike but that doesnt mean there isnt a reason....The catalyst is sending us back to the stone age to save us from self annilation.

No most of us would LIKE if Shepard lives, or if the relays weren't destroyed. We're angry because of the GAPING plot holes in the ending. There are so many things that don't make sense. If you understand the endings so well, please explain it to me. How is there suddenly technology that just kind of blends synthetics and organics? And how does jumping into a beam of energy or light or whatever activate it? How did Anderson beat Shepard to the console. How did Hackett know Shepard was even alive if no one else did? How is there a giant room that just so happened to work with the crucible. How did the VI take on the shape of a child Shepard really only saw a couple of times.

Yes I know what knit picking is. yet those are not plot holes those are just things that all game makers and hell movie producers do. There were very little plot holes.

Those are not little. They singlehandedly ruined any realism that was attached to Mass Effect and they pulled a huge story telling no-no. That is not nitpicking. That is complete lack of clarity.

Modifié par Omnike, 28 mars 2012 - 06:37 .

[V-rcingetorix]

------------------------------------Continued ending suggestions------------------------------------
10. Anderson becoming the new Councilor
11. Adml Hackett retiring as the grand admiral of the Allied fleets
12. Dr. Chackwas getting a pension, then refusing to stay on.
13. Salrians helping integrate Krogan education
14. Asari rebuilding
15. Maybe a statue for Shep on the Presidium?
16. The Citadel repaired, sans Casper the Genocidal Ghost
17. Reaper ships tossed into nearest available black hole-none of this "salvage" business
18. Rachni initiating a contract business, helping all races rebuild.
19. Shep retiring/continuing Spectre status to his home colony(colonist)/Earth(earthborn)/space station(spacer) to live happily with LI/as a cheerful bachelor
20. Blue/red themed ending.

[luci90]

Thanatos144 wrote...
Yes I know what knit picking is. yet those are not plot holes those are just things that all game makers and hell movie producers do. There were very little plot holes.

But they are plot holes.

It's exactly what they are, plot holes.

"A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline."

Modifié par luci90, 28 mars 2012 - 06:50 .

[Omnike]

luci90 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
Yes I know what knit picking is. yet those are not plot holes those are just things that all game makers and hell movie producers do. There were very little plot holes.

But they are plot holes.

It's exactly what they are, plot holes.

"A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline."

I couldn't have put it any better. Reading through most of the posts on previous pges, you'll see that most of us are upset about the gaping plot holes more than anything.

[Phaelducan]

I disagree, I think a lot of us are upset that the game is incomplete. I don't see the end as a plot hole, I see it as a non-entity that is scrubbed as soon as it's "over" while we wait for the actual ending via DLC.

I've said before, I'm willing to call it all good if the DLC ending is A) Free and complete.

If those criteria aren't met, my satisfaction will go way down, but I am totally onboard calling this one of the greatest games ever if those criteria are met.

Even further.... if it's NOT free but it's great? I'll still be pissed, but that won't mean it wasn't ultimately a great experience.... just that I got fleeced for it and I hate that.

[weltraumhamster89]

http://twitter.com/#...925834887430144

Just post this here again so maybe somebody sees it. So, apparently, they have NOTHING right now. I start to get really really tired of everything "mass effect", I wish they would finally reveal what they are doing. They have basically killed my desire to play any videogame at all - and I don't want to keep it like this. Please Bioware, say something valid and do not just repeat and contradict yourself every ****ing 2 minutes. Just give us what you promised and everything will be alright (please also at least one option for a "happier" ending, my Shep deserved it and Garrus needs her!)

Modifié par weltraumhamster89, 28 mars 2012 - 07:18 .

[Aven Phoenix]

There are several things left unanswered, but I don't see any actual plot holes.
People get upset about one thing, they start looking desperatley for more justifications for it.
That's when they quickly decide things are plot holes without looking at them.

Maybe there are some plot holes, virtually every story has them somewhere to some degree.
But every example I've been given is horrendously misunderstood to the point that I know it's subcontiously deliberate.

Most common one: "Why did he/it create the reapers, synthetic life, to kill the organic life so that they wouldn't be killed by synthetic life? I makes no sense! Hatehatehatehatehate."

When, of course, that's completely not the case at all, even a little tiny bit. Yet always after someone posts that, a million others go, "YEAH! Plot Hole! Hatehatehatehatehate."
All over something that isn't even true. At all. Even a little tiny bit.

He created the reapers to, in his twisted view, ASCEND life (like they did to the prothians), while protecting the new, up and coming life (like the Humans) from being interfered with. Then to come back again and ASCEND that life (advance it to its alledged final evolution, ie Reaper) to protect the NEXT cycle. It's like a twisted version of Star Trek's prime directive. It's evil, it's twisted, but that's what makes it worth fighting. If it made perfect sense then Shepard would be the bad guy, the reapers would be right, and the games would be pointless. If you think that would make the story better then you're crazier than the illusive man.

THAT is not, in any way, shape, or form a plot hole. And yet it's the most championed example of Mass Effect 3s alledged "plot holes." That's sad.

Does anyone have any REAL plot holes they're like to share?

I have a few that are almost kinda plot holes, but they're more like things LEFT UNSAID. Which, again, I wish wasn't the case. Where was my team when I rushed that beam of light at the end? Garrus said it always boils down to our squad, yet they aren't present. Did they die in a reaper blast? No, because I saw Tali step off the Normandy at the end and she was in my squad with Garrus. How did she get back to the Normandy? Did Garrus and Tali just head back up while I rushed the beam of light? If so, why? Did they rush it and get seperated, then returned to the Normandy? If so, why? They must have had to fall back for some reason.

That's the closet thing I can think of plot-hole wise, but can easily be fixed with just more explaination. It's not illogical inconsistancy or contradiction. It's just something you didn't see. We didn't see how Shepard got back from the prothian becon on Eden Prime to the first Normandy's med bay. OMG PLOT HOLE!!!!1111one. Oh, wait, you guys didn't hate ME1's ending, so I guess that magically makes it so there's no plot holes in that game. I forgot.

[Phaelducan]

Shrug, no real info there. By gathering information they are probably looking at raw numbers on who is choosing what "ending"... AND percentage of people who have finished the game. Keep in mind that there are a lot of people still working through the game.

[John Prat]

Just my 2cents...

I could not be more dissapointed in the ending, I agree 100% with the analysis of Ross Lincoln's outstanding analysis on "5 reasons fans are right".
Hard to beleive the same creative team that created such a great story came up with that ending.

Chris Presily should be a politican, such a beautifully crafted non-answer.
That said, in light of Dr. Ray Muzyka's answer, they must have heard us, and I sincerely hope they do work to patch things up, our only hope is DLC I suppose.
Paying for correcting an "acceptable" ending would leave me with a bad taste, but frankly will live with that, I'll pay for quality DLCs.
As it is, I very much doubt I will ever pre-puchase a bioware product again.
I would definitely wait for solid fan based feedback, not journatists review.

From a creative perspective, The Mass Effect creative team must know what it feels like to be Jorge Lucas or the Wachowski Brothers.
If you create something magnificent and damage it, your fans/customer will let you have it... that is normal I am sorry to say.

All that said, ending definitley excluded, thank you Bioware for such a great story/experience.

[Mark Havel]

Aven Phoenix wrote...

(...)
Does anyone have any REAL plot holes they're like to share?
(...)

If the Catalyst is the Citadel, then it should have been able to activate its inner Mass Relay part to phone the Reapers home for the harvesting party once it had assessed the current crop of civilization ripe enough. Yet, as I recall, the whole plot of Mass Effect 1 revolved around the fact that it was Sovereign who tried to activate the Citadel because the Prothean had somehow managed to hack it to prevent that. There would have been no need to risk a Reaper in the galaxy between the cycles since the Citadel is a funny looking one.
So much for the million year old carefully layed out plans to preserve organic life...

Modifié par Mark Havel, 28 mars 2012 - 07:29 .

[chevyguy87]

Aven Phoenix wrote...


Does anyone have any REAL plot holes they're like to share?

biggest plot hole of them all.... why were we promised "16 different endings" yet only received the same one just with different colors
 
and another one why would space child allow us the option to kill him and synthetic life if he is the "solution" to the probelm? *facepalm

lastly why the sudden shift at the end i thought we were after the reapers yet suddenly space boy ropes us into a debate over synthetics vs organics

Modifié par chevyguy87, 28 mars 2012 - 07:36 .

[jeweledleah]

Mark Havel wrote...

Aven Phoenix wrote...

(...)
Does anyone have any REAL plot holes they're like to share?
(...)

If the Catalyst is the Citadel, then it should have been able to activate its inner Mass Relay part to phone the Reapers home for the harvesting party once it had assessed the current crop of civilization ripe enough. Yet, as I recall, the whole plot of Mass Effect 1 revolved around the fact that it was Sovereign who tried to activate the Citadel because the Prothean had somehow managed to hack it to prevent that. There would have been no need to risk a Reaper in the galaxy between the cycles since the Citadel is a funny looking one.
So much for the million year old carefully layed out plans to preserve organic life...

yep.  and apparently catalyst has power to shift citadel's.. walls somehow?  but coudln't do so in ME1?

and then of course, there's a normandy running away WITH the squadmates that were running to the beam with Shepard.  TIM appearing out of thin air, Anderson making it in, before Shepard, even though he followed after him, don't even get me started in implausibility of green ending.

[akenn312]

[/quote] Yes I know what knit picking is. yet those are not plot holes those are just things that all game makers and hell movie producers do. There were very little plot holes.
[/quote]

Sorry if this was a Sci-Fi book people would pan it for a very bad confusing ending, but because it's a video game we're supposed to give it a pass? Books have re-done endings even cut out content and added content and so have movies. So a video game should have no problem with this.

Lets just say that was the goal of the ending from Bioware, the Caytlist is not
really evil but is sending us back to the stone age to save us
from self annilation.

But now he is actually causing our suffering
for no reason, since Shepard has brought together synthetic and organic
life a way to live in peace (i'm just going on Paragon choices here) there is no organic & synthetic chaos
anymore. Also if organic synthetic chaos was the only issue then as soon as the Geth war ended then the Reapers should have left. Why does the Catylist completly ignore that Shepard has done what he could
not and in a better way? Why kill the one person that stopped the chaos you can't stand?

Shepard has proved him wrong that sythetics and organics can live
in peace and live without bloodshed and he even admits it, but God child still wants organics to pay for what they have done? Why? Also
if it's so wrong to create sythetic life then
why has the Catalyst created synthetic Reapers to take us out why not
create Organic Reapers? Why does the Catalyst
dislike organics creating sythetics so much when he is doing the same
exact thing creating sythetics to kill organics? Why is it a big deal if sythetics wipe out organics anyway either way organics die. 

If your head is not exploding I'm shocked because thats what questions this current ending causes. The Catylist makes no sense. The Reapers just destroying at will without any reason made more sense than this poorly thought out reason fo rthe Reapers in the ending.

Also why do squadmates dissapear back to
the Normandy? If I take Ash & Garrus to London they dissapear and
walk out of the stranded Normandy & why does the Normandy leave
Earth? If a Mass Relay is blowing up why does Joker make a stupid dash through it
when you can just crash on Earth where there are doctors and your military base is? That is another huge major plot hole. What idiot would do that?

It's maddening why Bioware would make an ending like this. Just makes no sense. Don't you want a higher standard? Especially what they ask us to pay for the game.

[Omnike]

Aven Phoenix wrote...

 It's not illogical inconsistancy or contradiction. It's just something you didn't see. We didn't see how Shepard got back from the prothian becon on Eden Prime to the first Normandy's med bay. OMG PLOT HOLE!!!!1111one. Oh, wait, you guys didn't hate ME1's ending, so I guess that magically makes it so there's no plot holes in that game. I forgot.

They said they carried him back to the ship because Eden Prime didn't have medical facilities that were as good as the med bay in The Normandy. Your crew literally runs right behind you until you get hit with a beam. Now suddenly they're in the ship not in Sol anymore? Unscathed? No. Plot hole. 

And how was that room even in the Citadel? No one would have noticed? Good thing Shepard HAPPENED to fall in the right place, if he was a foot to the left he would have fallen off that convenient elevator. So, they attach a weapon that doesn't have anything to do with the reapers. It was made by countless cycles adding to it. Now, this random room that Shepard happened to go up to, see a VI child hat somehow took the shape of the child, and the room's three functions happen to work perfectly with the crucible? And Shepard doesn't question any of it? No. Plot hole.

Modifié par Omnike, 28 mars 2012 - 07:39 .

[akenn312]

Sorry if this was a Sci-Fi book people would pan it for a very bad confusing ending, but because it's a video game we're supposed to give it a pass? Books have re-done endings even cut out content and added content and so have movies. So a video game should have no problem with this.

Lets just say that was the goal of the ending from Bioware, the Caytlist is not really evil but is sending us back to the stone age to save us from self annilation.

But now he is actually causing our suffering for no reason, since Shepard has brought together synthetic and organic
life a way to live in peace (i'm just going on Paragon choices here) there is no organic & synthetic chaos anymore. Also if organic synthetic chaos was the only issue then as soon as the Geth war ended then the Reapers should have left. Why does the Catylist completly ignore that Shepard has done what he could not and in a better way? Why kill the one person that stopped the chaos you can't stand?

Shepard has proved him wrong that sythetics and organics can live in peace and live without bloodshed and he even admits it, but God child still wants organics to pay for what they have done? Why? Also if it's so wrong to create sythetic life then why has the Catalyst created synthetic Reapers to take us out why not create Organic Reapers? Why does the Catalyst dislike organics creating sythetics so much when he is doing the same exact thing creating sythetics to kill organics? Why is it a big deal if sythetics wipe out organics anyway either way organics die. 

If your head is not exploding I'm shocked because thats what questions this current ending causes. The Catylist makes no sense. The Reapers just destroying at will without any reason made more sense than this poorly thought out reason fo rthe Reapers in the ending.

Also why do squadmates dissapear back to the Normandy? If I take Ash & Garrus to London they dissapear and
walk out of the stranded Normandy & why does the Normandy leave Earth? If a Mass Relay is blowing up why does Joker make a stupid dash through it when you can just crash on Earth where there are doctors and your military HQ is? That is another huge major plot hole. What idiot would do that?

It's maddening why Bioware would make an ending like this. Just makes no sense. Don't you want a higher standard? Especially what they ask us to pay for the game.

Modifié par akenn312, 28 mars 2012 - 07:41 .

[NoirCZ]

Just a fast question... what people had to say about intelectual property of let's say... sir Arthur Conan Doyle and his Sherlock Holmes stories? You can say nothing. It was his art, his property, the readers did not even get to affect the story like players of Mass Effect did... And when he killed Sherlock Holmes in waterfalls there was so huge feedback that he just wrote another stories with him, explained the death...

[Motherlander]

MarcusFrost88 wrote...

In short, this video offers a wealth of useful information Bioware should be apprised of when considering how to potentially amend the ending of Mass Effect 3 via future DLC. Bottom line: this is must-watch material for anyone following the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy.

Mass Effect 3 Ending: Tasteful, Understated Nerdrage

I just watched it and I agree with all that he says. He is dead right that the story loses its narative coherence.

He also doplomatically body-swerved the Indoc-theory and simply asked for a new ending. That is the ideal scenario.

I like the idea of just ditching holo-kid. Great idea.

Unfortunately, Bioware will either be too proud or too stubborn to take the good advice here.

Remember Pride is worhtless and it costs money for nothing.

Modifié par Motherlander, 28 mars 2012 - 08:03 .

[ursa1979]

I love the ending, and hope you do NOT change it (if anything I hope it is only clarification).

The Relay that was destroyed in Arrival was hit with a giant space rock. The Relays destroyed at the end of the game were deactivated by some mechanism on the Citadel/Catalyst. There is no reason to think that the deactivation caused by the Citadel/Catalyst would cause a supernova, in fact we see that they only release their space magic, which is harmless to most things (depending on which color space magic of course).

Also, they still have FTL drives that will allow the travel from one end of the galaxy to the other. Yeah it could take up to 20 years to go from one end to the other, but the situation is not as grim as people make it out to be.

It is a brave new world to be sure. And yes it is going to be tough to rebuild and figure out a new status quo, but such is the aftermath of war. And no matter what they face it is better than being destroyed the Reapers, and above all there is hope. Hope that the different species can evolve and grow without a 50,000 year cap. The Mass Relay’s were a “gift” from the Reapers that artificially sped up the progress of each civilization. It makes sense to me that in order to get rid of the Reapers you have to get rid of the Mass Relays. That is the sacrifice.

Modifié par ursa1979, 28 mars 2012 - 08:09 .

[akenn312]

NoirCZ wrote...

Just a fast question... what people had to say about intelectual property of let's say... sir Arthur Conan Doyle and his Sherlock Holmes stories? You can say nothing. It was his art, his property, the readers did not even get to affect the story like players of Mass Effect did... And when he killed Sherlock Holmes in waterfalls there was so huge feedback that he just wrote another stories with him, explained the death...

I still don't think the major issue is with the death of the Shepard character but the bad plot holes and what happens to the other characters. It's unexpected with me at least when Mass Effect had had such a good deep story so far and to now get this rushed Catylist concept is a let down. Sherlock Homes death was written well in my opinion but by one writer with one vision but Mass Effect is created by a group of writers that say we control thier vision and the original creators of the concept appreantly left so are we really getting the intended ending or another persons interpertation of what they want the ending to be? Lets say sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote Holmes death scene originally but we find out his publisher changed the final scene after he moved on to something else and that rewrite is not good? Wouldn;t we want to see the real ending concept? Also Sherlock Holmes does not add pages of content after his book is written. Mass Effect is pushing that saying we are going to create more content.

But as I said, if Mass Effect 3 were a book it would be critizied for having a bad ending, it's not a minority that thinks this. But they sell the game with the concept they are not like other games and you can get a variety of endings and that we the players shape the ending that will be unique so I think if you want your story not to change then why give the player the power to have influence on it? It's like A Choose Your Own Adventure Book with every ending being the same no matter what choice you make. If they want it to be one ending then don't make the game concept about variety and choice.

Modifié par akenn312, 28 mars 2012 - 08:22 .

[DrSatchmoe]

 I personally think that The VS LI needs work, and there needs to be a reunion. I don't care so much about the "choices" being the same as everyone else does, but it did seem cruel to Let Shepard Die, and have them trapped somewhere. Also, the conversations are very glitchy. Also why is there no real talk with LI. Its disapointing, that yet again after 2 1/2 years of no contact that the "relationship" is so disapointing. It seems as Liara's was the only choice that was expanded on. THis is My opinion. 

[akenn312]

ursa1979 wrote...

I love the ending, and hope you do NOT change it (if anything I hope it is only clarification).

The Relay that was destroyed in Arrival was hit with a giant space rock. The Relays destroyed at the end of the game were deactivated by some mechanism on the Citadel/Catalyst. There is no reason to think that the deactivation caused by the Citadel/Catalyst would cause a supernova, in fact we see that they only release their space magic, which is harmless to most things (depending on which color space magic of course).

Also, they still have FTL drives that will allow the travel from one end of the galaxy to the other. Yeah it could take up to 20 years to go from one end to the other, but the situation is not as grim as people make it out to be.

It is a brave new world to be sure. And yes it is going to be tough to rebuild and figure out a new status quo, but such is the aftermath of war. And no matter what they face it is better than being destroyed the Reapers, and above all there is hope. Hope that the different species can evolve and grow without a 50,000 year cap. The Mass Relay’s were a “gift” from the Reapers that artificially sped up the progress of each civilization. It makes sense to me that in order to get rid of the Reapers you have to get rid of the Mass Relays. That is the sacrifice.

Another plot hole, so if the Catylist hates organic progress then why keep giving organics great tools that really speed up the progress of them advancing there civilization to get technology and create synthetics? Why even make the Mass Relays to begin with.

Modifié par akenn312, 28 mars 2012 - 09:36 .

[Benjaminrk]

Listen everybody please. I have played Mass Effect from the very first game. I have followed the story and seen it evolve and grow. I am a Mass Effect fan who was not disappointed with the ending. Yes there are very few answers in the last minute. But before that we had 20 minutes of awesome plot points being projected in front of us. I understand there should have been more different choices and more different endings. But BioWare told such an amazing story up until the last choice (Both the scene with the Illusive man and the little boy), that I am more than willing to forgive them.
Mass Effect 3's last 20 minutes are so great that using the words “disappointed, “suck” and “hate”, is so unfair to them that I feel bad by using the same name (Mass Effect fan) as the ones who criticize the ending. The lack of choice in the end can not ruin the ending to the trilogy. I understand why you might fell that way. But please understand me when I'm saying:
Please give BioWare a break and together tell them that nothing can ruin the epic experience you had when you played their game. No single thing can ruin that...

Please..........

[Liberated Monkey]

I came for the story above the game play and the story was fantastic. Up until the end of course where everything completely fell apart.