23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Omnike]

Benjaminrk wrote...

Listen everybody please. I have played Mass Effect from the very first game. I have followed the story and seen it evolve and grow. I am a Mass Effect fan who was not disappointed with the ending. Yes there are very few answers in the last minute. But before that we had 20 minutes of awesome plot points being projected in front of us. I understand there should have been more different choices and more different endings. But BioWare told such an amazing story up until the last choice (Both the scene with the Illusive man and the little boy), that I am more than willing to forgive them.
Mass Effect 3's last 20 minutes are so great that using the words “disappointed, “suck” and “hate”, is so unfair to them that I feel bad by using the same name (Mass Effect fan) as the ones who criticize the ending. The lack of choice in the end can not ruin the ending to the trilogy. I understand why you might fell that way. But please understand me when I'm saying:
Please give BioWare a break and together tell them that nothing can ruin the epic experience you had when you played their game. No single thing can ruin that...

Please..........

What about the plot holes?

[RoadWarrior_92]

Well how about every freaking moment in the game lol

Uniting the geth AND quarians (really dont know how I managed that)

every moment with Garrus and Liara

Finally seeing Ashley and having her with me again

Thinking Grunt had died :0 then see he is ok

Mordin's final song

Thane saying a prayer for you

Shooting Udina hahaha

Stabbing that frick Kai Leng (who felt a little random)

.......then there was the awful ending.....and I mean awful. I love the Mass Effect series a lot and its a truly believeable world and you care about everyone and every thought provoking decision your forced to make but all of that planning and thinking doesnt even matter any more at the end. Saved the Krogan? The Rachini? United both Quarian and Geth? Doesn't matter it all comes down to a half done,confusing,swiss cheesed ending. This was the moment that was suppossed to make us proud of what we have done and everything it took to get this point. To call this a proper ending to an amazing space opera with some of the best action I've seen? A absolute tragedy in every form of the word. I really hope you CHANGE the ending not explain because there really is nothing to explain because it is so bad none of it would still make any sense and will forever leave a bad taste in our mouths forever seeing our heroic Shepard given one of the worst endings I have ever seen. Don't get me wrong I love what you guys have done for this series but this ending needs some serious work done to it. I understand this is your story you have created but it is more ours. We have shaped this universe into what we feel is right and to have all of that taken away in a lackluster ending is really a shame on your part. Read this article and it should really show you what we all mean.

http://www.gamefront...ans-are-right/6

[Flamingdropbear]

Now a disclamers before I start, Haven't read the 472 pages before, but if I am repeating other people it'll be good for the metrics. 

I didn't hate the ending I did find it disapointing, and three changes could have made the world of difference

• Replace Casper the Friendly Catalyst with a Keeper.- Makes sense in lore as no one know much about them, they run the citadel, and have been around since the start of the the cycles making it much more beliveable that they control the whole show.
• Remove the three choices- instead have a calculation of some kind adding up how you solved problems through out the games, and have the ending reflect these choices. Rather than choosing right at the end, you have made your choice through play and you get to see it acted out. You let your gun do the talking - Destroy ending, Try and foster peace understanding - synthesis, Mix it up - Control. ... kinda needs a little more though but you get the idea.
• Loose the normandy 'escaping'- Now this was the one thing about the ending that made me go WTF? Garrus was with me on the gound, then he was on the jungle planet... er how? It also gave no sense of closure for the other characters, or worlds. It also raises the question as to how will they make a Mass Effect 4 if there is no mass relay network. While there is more to the universe than the mass relays it was a more unique element to it, and any subsequent game will be poorer for it.

If DLC is being made to change the ending I would like a few things.

• Make the War Assets count- like the prep for the suicide mission. Only got the bare mimium? Reapers destroyed, but at the cost of Earth and the combined fleets, and most of the rest of the galaxy. Get the lot? Earth can be rebuilt
• As much as hardware will allow have more of Hammer on the ground fighting with you rather than just in cutsences.
• DON"T ANSWER ALL QUESTIONS. Leave some room for interpretation, but not so vague that you are scratching you head with no clue
• Leave Shepards fate the same as Schrödinger's cat
• I want to see Hanar Battle or War Elcor (even in a cut scene)

[Funkatronic]

 First off, watch this video:


Elequently explains what is wrong with the ending and I 120% agree.  The final moments of the game threw out the genre, threw out the character focus and threw out the main conflict/goal.  I aslo like his commentary on the loss of negative coherence.  We don't see the fate of the squad, or at least a fate that makes sense.  Shepard has no true say, no choice.  He dies in vain for some BeiberReaper whom he has no allegience too or trust.

The ending is what happens when you take the endings of Beast Machines, DS9 and Gurren Lagann and put them into a blender.  

[TheWerdna]

Honestly, at this point I will settle for closure for the Normandy crew. That of all the problems i have with the ending, that is the biggest deal-breaker for me. Their fate at the end is unexplained, and just so needlessly cruel. The worst part of it is (for me) is that my Shepard survived only to be separated from his friends and his LI.. Please, lef there be a option for Shepard to at-least end up with his LI and friends (maybe even have him stranded on the same planet, that would actually kinda be a fitting end in a way)

[sunago]

I loved every single part of it (except maybe the last part) and wished it had gone on longer. It had me screaming at the screen sometimes as if begging one section not to happen and then going 'okay, yeah, that was beautifull' the next. You get attached to certain characters and wish to know more and more and more. On that, Bioware doesn't dissapoint.

Sometimes I forgot to shoot my enemies and ended up dying because I was watching something. Like on Rannoch I couldn't help but what to see more of the planet, check to see if I could still see something that resembled the quarian civilisation. On the Citadel, I often just stared out the windows to look at the scenery. It's just beautifully made. The dialogue was well written as well, minus a few sentences here and there that bugged me....

Which is why I went nerd-rage over the ending. It's clumsily written, messes with it's own cannon and just plainly ignores common sense. On top of that, it fails to deliver what has been previously promised.

Which saddens me because I love almost anything Bioware has created. I still think that KOTOR is one of the best RPG's ever done. Still the only game that seriously boggled my mind at the end because I had not seen it coming even though apparently I had been getting subtle hints all game long. I know how good you guys are. Bioware isn't a mediocre gaming company. In my eyes it's one of the best and it still has a place in my gaming heart. I know what you are capable off, how creative you guys are.

Hence why I can't help but hope and wonder that there is something hidden there, that Bioware will come with a twist on things that just blows our minds like it's capable of doing. I'm not mad at the ending due to closure, I'm dissapointed that the it doesn't have the same quality that the rest of the game has. It just has too many plotholes, anti-cannon lines and just plain weirdness to fit in.

Just do me a favour Bioware. I know you are a company and as such money matters as well. But don't trade more money for your creativity as some companies do. Because that would mean the fall of another long-standing gaming hero.

[NoirCZ]

akenn312 wrote...

NoirCZ wrote...

Just a fast question... what people had to say about intelectual property of let's say... sir Arthur Conan Doyle and his Sherlock Holmes stories? You can say nothing. It was his art, his property, the readers did not even get to affect the story like players of Mass Effect did... And when he killed Sherlock Holmes in waterfalls there was so huge feedback that he just wrote another stories with him, explained the death...

I still don't think the major issue is with the death of the Shepard character but the bad plot holes and what happens to the other characters. It's unexpected with me at least when Mass Effect had had such a good deep story so far and to now get this rushed Catylist concept is a let down. Sherlock Homes death was written well in my opinion but by one writer with one vision but Mass Effect is created by a group of writers that say we control thier vision and the original creators of the concept appreantly left so are we really getting the intended ending or another persons interpertation of what they want the ending to be? Lets say sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote Holmes death scene originally but we find out his publisher changed the final scene after he moved on to something else and that rewrite is not good? Wouldn;t we want to see the real ending concept? Also Sherlock Holmes does not add pages of content after his book is written. Mass Effect is pushing that saying we are going to create more content.

But as I said, if Mass Effect 3 were a book it would be critizied for having a bad ending, it's not a minority that thinks this. But they sell the game with the concept they are not like other games and you can get a variety of endings and that we the players shape the ending that will be unique so I think if you want your story not to change then why give the player the power to have influence on it? It's like A Choose Your Own Adventure Book with every ending being the same no matter what choice you make. If they want it to be one ending then don't make the game concept about variety and choice.

I did not meant it just as complaint about death of main hero... I would be even fine with that, if it were done somehow better. With less plotholes... damn I took EDI and Liara with me on final mission... and then they were at the Normandy and... well... it has been written around several times. What I meant by the post about sir Arthur Conan Doyle is that he did change outcome of his book, and that is a bit less interactive story than the Mass Effect. It is meant for people who say that the ending (I am not going to call it endingS) done in ME are property of the company and players have no right to say a thing about it... people did it with Sherlock Holmes and it worked. People got another stories and the author got  money for the subsequent books...
Or like they did it with the Dallas series (and yes, even there it was death of one character)

So what I am saying is: Change of  the storyline happened already in books (Sherlock Holmes), in TV (Dallas) and in games too (Fallout 3) so I think and hope it can happen here too.

As it is I am probably not going to buy any future BioWare games. Unless there is some explanation/closure... and if it was intended to give us ... this... and then later the explanation/closire I sure hope it will be free because they counted with it. (Like I said once, it would be like going to movie, then the movie ends horribly (and I do not mean in gory fashion) and then cinema workers go around and start taking money if we want to see the remaining 10 minutes of the movie with an actual ending)

[ZajoE38]

Ok, probably many people here have already seen this but.. just watch.. hack this video into the game and we already have a perfect ending that we've been waiting for. It's extremelly easy concept and you can do a perfect ending with everyone satisfied. Who did this is a genius. Maybe Bioware could learn a thing or two from this vid (no offense, honestly)

Modifié par ZajoE38, 28 mars 2012 - 08:57 .

[akenn312]

NoirCZ wrote...

akenn312 wrote...

NoirCZ wrote...

Just a fast question... what people had to say about intelectual property of let's say... sir Arthur Conan Doyle and his Sherlock Holmes stories? You can say nothing. It was his art, his property, the readers did not even get to affect the story like players of Mass Effect did... And when he killed Sherlock Holmes in waterfalls there was so huge feedback that he just wrote another stories with him, explained the death...

I still don't think the major issue is with the death of the Shepard character but the bad plot holes and what happens to the other characters. It's unexpected with me at least when Mass Effect had had such a good deep story so far and to now get this rushed Catylist concept is a let down. Sherlock Homes death was written well in my opinion but by one writer with one vision but Mass Effect is created by a group of writers that say we control thier vision and the original creators of the concept appreantly left so are we really getting the intended ending or another persons interpertation of what they want the ending to be? Lets say sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote Holmes death scene originally but we find out his publisher changed the final scene after he moved on to something else and that rewrite is not good? Wouldn;t we want to see the real ending concept? Also Sherlock Holmes does not add pages of content after his book is written. Mass Effect is pushing that saying we are going to create more content.

But as I said, if Mass Effect 3 were a book it would be critizied for having a bad ending, it's not a minority that thinks this. But they sell the game with the concept they are not like other games and you can get a variety of endings and that we the players shape the ending that will be unique so I think if you want your story not to change then why give the player the power to have influence on it? It's like A Choose Your Own Adventure Book with every ending being the same no matter what choice you make. If they want it to be one ending then don't make the game concept about variety and choice.

I did not meant it just as complaint about death of main hero... I would be even fine with that, if it were done somehow better. With less plotholes... damn I took EDI and Liara with me on final mission... and then they were at the Normandy and... well... it has been written around several times. What I meant by the post about sir Arthur Conan Doyle is that he did change outcome of his book, and that is a bit less interactive story than the Mass Effect. It is meant for people who say that the ending (I am not going to call it endingS) done in ME are property of the company and players have no right to say a thing about it... people did it with Sherlock Holmes and it worked. People got another stories and the author got  money for the subsequent books...
Or like they did it with the Dallas series (and yes, even there it was death of one character)

So what I am saying is: Change of  the storyline happened already in books (Sherlock Holmes), in TV (Dallas) and in games too (Fallout 3) so I think and hope it can happen here too.

As it is I am probably not going to buy any future BioWare games. Unless there is some explanation/closure... and if it was intended to give us ... this... and then later the explanation/closire I sure hope it will be free because they counted with it. (Like I said once, it would be like going to movie, then the movie ends horribly (and I do not mean in gory fashion) and then cinema workers go around and start taking money if we want to see the remaining 10 minutes of the movie with an actual ending)

I forgot that he did change the Holmes ending, great point. So if a great literaty author can do it what's the big deal with this. Excellet reason for Bioware to change this especially the Fall out 3 point too. For people that like the current ending don't get the new ending DLC if you want more endings and an alternate then here is a free DLC for you. Problem solved.

Modifié par akenn312, 28 mars 2012 - 09:03 .

[JackLaVaporiera]

NoirCZ wrote...

Just a fast question... what people had to say about intelectual property of let's say... sir Arthur Conan Doyle and his Sherlock Holmes stories? You can say nothing. It was his art, his property, the readers did not even get to affect the story like players of Mass Effect did... And when he killed Sherlock Holmes in waterfalls there was so huge feedback that he just wrote another stories with him, explained the death...

Please do not put "THE" legend that's Conan Doyle's work in the same line of Mass Effect for how fascinating these games could be, and remember he didn't blew a whole galaxy in his history.

Just few questions.

What does the theory of indoctrination on the scene of the Normady with triumphal soundtrack on that planet ?
Who won the war right before those 9 seconds in which Shepard wakes up ?
Who was Casey Hudson drilling while thinking at such an ending ?

[Seival]

One more review that BioWare should watch carefully:

[Benjaminrk]

Omnike wrote...

Benjaminrk wrote...

Listen everybody please. I have played Mass Effect from the very first game. I have followed the story and seen it evolve and grow. I am a Mass Effect fan who was not disappointed with the ending. Yes there are very few answers in the last minute. But before that we had 20 minutes of awesome plot points being projected in front of us. I understand there should have been more different choices and more different endings. But BioWare told such an amazing story up until the last choice (Both the scene with the Illusive man and the little boy), that I am more than willing to forgive them.
Mass Effect 3's last 20 minutes are so great that using the words “disappointed, “suck” and “hate”, is so unfair to them that I feel bad by using the same name (Mass Effect fan) as the ones who criticize the ending. The lack of choice in the end can not ruin the ending to the trilogy. I understand why you might fell that way. But please understand me when I'm saying:
Please give BioWare a break and together tell them that nothing can ruin the epic experience you had when you played their game. No single thing can ruin that...

Please..........

What about the plot holes?

I understand that can be a problem. But weighted up against the fact of just how good a plot we do get, I am willing to see past that. The plot holes are not enough to get this upset for this many people I
think.

Please everyone please. I understand the people who says that the Star Wars prequels ruined their childhood. But BioWare really don't deserve to be treated as such, and they certainly don't deserve this much criticism. I'm not saying you people should be grateful just for playing the game, because I do realize that you
payed for it. And you were only disappointed because you had such high expectations. I get that. I really do.


What
I am saying to all of you is this:
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't convince BioWare that they did not create a brilliant story, even in the end. Because they did. I understand the problems you raised, but the good far outweigh the bad (and I am now talking only about the last 20 minutes).

And
what I am saying to BioWare:
I am satisfied. You achieved more than what you said you would when you released the first game. You made a satisfying ending, and lived up to the hype created around the universe. Criticism from me would be nitpicking. Applause to you. YOUR ENDING WAS GOOD.

(Ps. I have heard about the DLC coming)

Modifié par Benjaminrk, 28 mars 2012 - 09:17 .

[Mastone]

My only real question is, did Bioware/EA plan this ending and if so are you intending to make or are already making DLC for which must be paid in order to see the real ending?
And did this have an universal approval across all ranks?
If that is so, then it is beyond despicable and it kinda reminds me of gandalf speaking to Saruman when saruman says he is not Saruman the white anymore but saruman of all colours, to which Gandalf replies; someone who breaks something to see how it works has left the path of wisdom...and we all know how Saruman ended up...

My point with this is that if you deliberately done this, just to see if you can deliver a crap enough ending just to get people so annoyed they will even be willing to pay for a better ending and you exploit that, then you have done the same thing as Saruman did and have broken the trust with your loyal fanbase.

Just to be clear I am not a fanboy nor a hater, but I appreciate well made games like thief,final fantasy and mass effect only one of these 3 has ( bliep) up the ending


I give Mass effect 3 a 6.5 out of 10 if I had to give it a grade, but that's because of the ending .
With a satisfying ending I would make that an 8( my teacher used to tell me a 9 is for the master and the 10 is for the god you believe in, so 8 is the highest grade I am willing to give)

[Zhen-Lin]

Have a look this, 1C company is openly ask their fans for wish list for the upcoming patches. Bioware should do the same.
http://forum.1cpubli...ed=1#post403750

[Omnike]

Benjaminrk wrote...

Omnike wrote...

Benjaminrk wrote...

Listen everybody please. I have played Mass Effect from the very first game. I have followed the story and seen it evolve and grow. I am a Mass Effect fan who was not disappointed with the ending. Yes there are very few answers in the last minute. But before that we had 20 minutes of awesome plot points being projected in front of us. I understand there should have been more different choices and more different endings. But BioWare told such an amazing story up until the last choice (Both the scene with the Illusive man and the little boy), that I am more than willing to forgive them.
Mass Effect 3's last 20 minutes are so great that using the words “disappointed, “suck” and “hate”, is so unfair to them that I feel bad by using the same name (Mass Effect fan) as the ones who criticize the ending. The lack of choice in the end can not ruin the ending to the trilogy. I understand why you might fell that way. But please understand me when I'm saying:
Please give BioWare a break and together tell them that nothing can ruin the epic experience you had when you played their game. No single thing can ruin that...

Please..........

What about the plot holes?

I understand that can be a problem. But weighted up against the fact of just how good a plot we do get, I am willing to see past that. The plot holes are not enough to get this upset for this many people I
think.

Please everyone please. I understand the people who says that the Star Wars prequels ruined their childhood. But BioWare really don't deserve to be treated as such, and they certainly don't deserve this much criticism. I'm not saying you people should be grateful just for playing the game, because I do realize that you
payed for it. And you were only disappointed because you had such high expectations. I get that. I really do.


What
I am saying to all of you is this:
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't convince BioWare that they did not create a brilliant story, even in the end. Because they did. I understand the problems you raised, but the good far outweigh the bad (and I am now talking only about the last 20 minutes).

And
what I am saying to BioWare:
I am satisfied. You achieved more than what you said you would when you released the first game. You made a satisfying ending, and lived up to the hype created around the universe. Criticism from me would be nitpicking. Applause to you. YOUR ENDING WAS GOOD.

(Ps. I have heard about the DLC coming)

I can agree to that. That's actually what we're trying to convince them of. We loved the Mass Effect universe. The story, the characters, just about everything. That's why the endings are such an injustice not just to the fans, but the writers and the Mass Effect universe itself. It deserves a better ending.

[The Cult Of Shepard]

Flamingdropbear wrote...

Now a disclamers before I start, Haven't read the 472 pages before, but if I am repeating other people it'll be good for the metrics. 

I didn't hate the ending I did find it disapointing, and three changes could have made the world of difference

• Replace Casper the Friendly Catalyst with a Keeper.- Makes sense in lore as no one know much about them, they run the citadel, and have been around since the start of the the cycles making it much more beliveable that they control the whole show.
  
• Remove the three choices- instead have a calculation of some kind adding up how you solved problems through out the games, and have the ending reflect these choices. Rather than choosing right at the end, you have made your choice through play and you get to see it acted out. You let your gun do the talking - Destroy ending, Try and foster peace understanding - synthesis, Mix it up - Control. ... kinda needs a little more though but you get the idea.
  
• Loose the normandy 'escaping'- Now this was the one thing about the ending that made me go WTF? Garrus was with me on the gound, then he was on the jungle planet... er how? It also gave no sense of closure for the other characters, or worlds. It also raises the question as to how will they make a Mass Effect 4 if there is no mass relay network. While there is more to the universe than the mass relays it was a more unique element to it, and any subsequent game will be poorer for it.

If DLC is being made to change the ending I would like a few things.

• Make the War Assets count- like the prep for the suicide mission. Only got the bare mimium? Reapers destroyed, but at the cost of Earth and the combined fleets, and most of the rest of the galaxy. Get the lot? Earth can be rebuilt 
• As much as hardware will allow have more of Hammer on the ground fighting with you rather than just in cutsences.
  
• DON"T ANSWER ALL QUESTIONS. Leave some room for interpretation, but not so vague that you are scratching you head with no clue
  
• Leave Shepards fate the same as Schrödinger's cat
  
• I want to see Hanar Battle or War Elcor (even in a cut scene)

This is even better than my suggestions I've sent to Bioware as a private message on their Official Facebook and YouTube pages. BioWare should heed your suggestions instead.

[ZajoE38]

Funkatronic wrote...

 First off, watch this video:


Elequently explains what is wrong with the ending and I 120% agree.  The final moments of the game threw out the genre, threw out the character focus and threw out the main conflict/goal.  I aslo like his commentary on the loss of negative coherence.  We don't see the fate of the squad, or at least a fate that makes sense.  Shepard has no true say, no choice.  He dies in vain for some BeiberReaper whom he has no allegience too or trust.

The ending is what happens when you take the endings of Beast Machines, DS9 and Gurren Lagann and put them into a blender.  

Play it at 24:50 and you will realize that Bioware has failed. They literaly sabotaged their years of hard work and the best space-opera. Very sad.

[darkway1]

Mastone wrote...

My only real question is, did Bioware/EA plan this ending and if so are you intending to make or are already making DLC for which must be paid in order to see the real ending?
And did this have an universal approval across all ranks?
If that is so, then it is beyond despicable and it kinda reminds me of gandalf speaking to Saruman when saruman says he is not Saruman the white anymore but saruman of all colours, to which Gandalf replies; someone who breaks something to see how it works has left the path of wisdom...and we all know how Saruman ended up...

My point with this is that if you deliberately done this, just to see if you can deliver a crap enough ending just to get people so annoyed they will even be willing to pay for a better ending and you exploit that, then you have done the same thing as Saruman did and have broken the trust with your loyal fanbase.

Just to be clear I am not a fanboy nor a hater, but I appreciate well made games like thief,final fantasy and mass effect only one of these 3 has ( bliep) up the ending


I give Mass effect 3 a 6.5 out of 10 if I had to give it a grade, but that's because of the ending .
With a satisfying ending I would make that an 8( my teacher used to tell me a 9 is for the master and the 10 is for the god you believe in, so 8 is the highest grade I am willing to give)

Theres no way a company sits down after publishing a game and thinks,"what shall we do for DLC",DLC was planed along time ago,voice actors,scripts etc all need to be figured out way in advanced.

[Theronyll Itholien]

@Mastone

You're teacher is full of bull****. He's never giving people a 10 because he reserves that for an invisible being? If you ask me, he should atleast say a 10 is for your mother who loves you and makes you feel safe. Tell him to keep his religious view and proper education seperate from eachother.

As for the ending DLC.... I think Bioware has pushed itself into a corner. Now angry fans are closing in on them and they have nowhere to go. We expect a better ending which would cost them allot of time and money to invest in... but asking money for it in return would deal their reputation a lethal blow. All the while EA is hiding in the darkness thinking "Whoops. Sorry that we got you into that mess, Bioware!".

It's a sad thing. I feel for Bio.

[jumashark]

ok so is no one here buying into the indoctrination theory? I mean it all makes sense if you look at it that way. once you are hit by the beam in the final run, everything else is in your head. IT is you battling not to be indoctrinated.

The whole game you are battling against it. That is what the dreams are. There is a part in ME1 with the Rachni queen where she talks about indoctrination as a dream with 'oily shadows' instead of people. Look at the dreams what do you see? Oils shadow people... When you get up from being hit by the beam look around a battle field that previously was just a flat plain now has dark black bushes like the dreams you have had... Suddenly your gun has infinite ammo and never has to be reloaded. Also the com says that the whole team was wiped out and shepard never radios to say otherwise yet toward the end Hackett calls shepard and tells him/her that something isn't working. Hackett didn't know that shepard made it...

First off look around the part of the citadel you land in, look familiar? It is a mash up of the collector base, shadow broker ship, and citadel They are creating a new place in his mind by using things he has seen already.

The conversation between you, Anderson, and Illusive man is really the fight inside your own head against indoctrination. When anderson is talking to the illusive man he looks at him, but on one of the lines he looks right at shepard the line is 'Listen to yourself you're indoctrinated'. When you are forced to shoot Anderson it is in the stomach and right after he dies you look down and have a wound in the exact same spot. because Anderson and is you.

Listen to the codex entry about indoctrination, one of the things it says is that they will try to present themselves as gods and use other tricks of the mind to fool you... That is exactly what the spirit child does. He trys to trick you and lies outright he says if you choose destruction you will die, in fact that is the only option that if chosen you can actually live.

Furthermore destruction option is a red color which is associated with renegade options and control is blue which indicates paragon, but from the start of this journey in ME the paragon option has been the destruction of the reapers. It is another trick the reapers want you to choose control because as the spirit child says 'he couldn't control us because we controlled him' the best lies have hints of truth. There is no controlling the reapers you think you are controlling them and they are really controlling you. Synthesis is what Saren wanted in ME, that was his ultimate goal. Both of those paths lead you to be indoctrinated.

The rest of the scene is parts what shepard has been told and believes(Mass relays will be destroyed) and what he hopes for(happy ending for his crew, landing on a planet) That is why the last two squad members that were with you are the ones that get off the ship they are the most recent memories he has.

Finally and most convincingly if you choose destruction and have a high enough military strength, then you see shepard take a breathe at the end, because destruction is the only way to fight off the indoctrination. So he/she wakes up in the rubble on earth. Any other choice is indoctrination. So all the plot holes are in shepards mind they aren't real.

This all adds up and makes to much sense to not work, go back play the last 20-30 minutes again. With this in mind and you will see it all alot more clearly.

[lrdocllins]

So I know that I'm not going to be the first to say anything that Im about to, but I just want want to add my thoughts.

First, I hadn't played a single ME game until 2 weeks ago, I've now played and beat all three.  The storylines and relationships were amazing and the fact that the descisions actually had an impact made this game very enjoyable, to the point I went ME1 2 and 3 back to back to back.  My only issues with the endings is every choice was contrary to every descision I made to that point.  Where was the options to shut down that catalyst and end its control on the reapers?

Second, the Normady cut scene at the very end, right Joker had enough to time to rescue all my team that had been on earth and peel out just in time, I dont think so.

Personally and I hope Im right this isnt the real ending to the game, I know they are saying so but I really don't feel like a game that did such an amazing job on establishisng a true player based descision cannon between the games would do something as silly as making an escape on the Normady with people that had been with me on the ground.

A few things I noticed right to begin with after getting knocked down by harbringers laser.  First, the only time Shepard ever walked the way he does at the end is in the dream sequence.  Second his scars come back from ME2 even though they are completely healed.  Third while I think Anderson could have made it first did anyone else notice there was only one pathway to the console.  I really believe that Shepard was either in the process of being indoctrinated in the end or knocked out cold from the laser grasping to life again.  Personally I dont need the "Star Wars ending," If Shepard has to sacrifice himself then he has to do it, but it should be for his reasons not a "God Child" who dictates only three choices all of which leave the entire fleets of galaxy do eventually die off.

[Mastone]

darkway1 wrote...

Mastone wrote...

My only real question is, did Bioware/EA plan this ending and if so are you intending to make or are already making DLC for which must be paid in order to see the real ending?
And did this have an universal approval across all ranks?
If that is so, then it is beyond despicable and it kinda reminds me of gandalf speaking to Saruman when saruman says he is not Saruman the white anymore but saruman of all colours, to which Gandalf replies; someone who breaks something to see how it works has left the path of wisdom...and we all know how Saruman ended up...

My point with this is that if you deliberately done this, just to see if you can deliver a crap enough ending just to get people so annoyed they will even be willing to pay for a better ending and you exploit that, then you have done the same thing as Saruman did and have broken the trust with your loyal fanbase.

Just to be clear I am not a fanboy nor a hater, but I appreciate well made games like thief,final fantasy and mass effect only one of these 3 has ( bliep) up the ending


I give Mass effect 3 a 6.5 out of 10 if I had to give it a grade, but that's because of the ending .
With a satisfying ending I would make that an 8( my teacher used to tell me a 9 is for the master and the 10 is for the god you believe in, so 8 is the highest grade I am willing to give)

Theres no way a company sits down after publishing a game and thinks,"what shall we do for DLC",DLC was planed along time ago,voice actors,scripts etc all need to be figured out way in advanced.

I don't mind them creating DLC or planning DLC ahead or creating it long before they actually make it available, I am talking about creating a trilogy in which people put countless of hours unlike a movie where you sit for 2 hours and if it is crap you only invested 2 hours ( although Indy 4 and starwars the prequels still make me drink more then I should LOL).
And when the final "episode"of the trilogy comes out on which you are working towards for quite a few hours deliberatly **** up the ending just to have people buy the ending it is despicable there is no other word for it.
If they made a 10 years later DLC after a fitting ending ( I don't mean happy , just something that fits the canon they themselves have set up the past 2 installments) in which you can possibly visit  places which are rebuilding, meet Wrex and all other characters  just to lead up to ME 4 or even sidemission like DLC where you can do shadowbroker stuff then it is making "an honest living"since you are not cutting away the essential core elements, having the prothean as day 1 DLC is imo an indicator thatthey are really are going down this route and I hope they turn on heir TOMTOM  and steer out of that place.
DLC in my book is adding more depth to a story/game which is already done, next thing they do is start a game halfway make you play it until the end and put something in the ending which makes you buy the first part of the game it borderlines extortion...

[lrdocllins]

jumashark wrote...

ok so is no one here buying into the indoctrination theory? I mean it all makes sense if you look at it that way. once you are hit by the beam in the final run, everything else is in your head. IT is you battling not to be indoctrinated.

The whole game you are battling against it......

This all adds up and makes to much sense to not work, go back play the last 20-30 minutes again. With this in mind and you will see it all alot more clearly.

Just read your post after posting mine and I would agree with you, however I dont think that any of the descisions actually happen with this theory.  If anything I think he is unconcious trying to fight of idoctrination.  I agree with your assesment of the normady as him hoping happy things becaus that is the only thing that can explain such a blatant plot hole.  My hope is though that his name "shepard" will be whispered in the DLC and will find himself either in the process of being harvested to fight out or to have one of his squad mates come up to him with him lying still on the battle field and with having regained conciousness will realize that it was all an attempt to indoctrinate him to stop the attempt.

[ZajoE38]

It's very stupid in principle (paying for something what should be incuded in the game as i buy it - the ending), but I am willing to pay for the DLC. I take it as giving a final chance for Bioware to get up from this cosmic scaled mess. They deserve this chance because there is nobody other who can forge that awe-inspiring space-opera. And I am in awe. I love them. On the other side, there is also nobody else ho can destroy something that perfect

[Chrislo1990]

Guys the current ending just has to go! It is insulting to me that after having spent so much time shaping my character I am forced to see him die in the end no matter what I did. What happened to the old ME1 and ME2 formula where the final outcome depended entirely how you played the game, whether or not you chose to be praragon or renegade, or whether or not you chose to save this individual but no the other? In ME3's case, the final outcome should be determined a simlar manner, the exception being that now we have also have to monitor new EMS bar. The higher the bar, the greater the chances of surviving the the war. I jutst don't know what Bioware was thinking and they are losing my respect very quickly. It's as iof all my hard work was for nothing as it has absolutely no influence on the final outcome.

It is incredible to hear how some fans owho have played MAss Effect from the very begining are completely satisifed by the ending. It brings no senser of closure. You are robbed of all options to save your character and emerge triumphantly. To add insult to injury, the endings are perhpas 95% identical! Themere difference being whether or not the energy wave unleashed from the crucible is red, blue, or green and whether Earth fries or not.

In my opinion I think Bioware grew overconfident of theri product. They thought that just because their product bore the Mass Effect logo that people would go in, purchase it, and be completely satisfied. On the contrary, fans would come in expecting a game that would defeat it's predecessor in almost every aspect. People wanted to se the fruits of their labor. Players wanted options to end the story based on their gameplay style. I am extremely disappointed that Bioware lost sight of that which made ME1 and ME2 such masterpieces... PLAYER CHOICE!