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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#11901
Omnike

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Lord Irvine wrote...

Ourik wrote...

TheSteelArcher wrote...

Ourik wrote...

Plain and simple quit ****ing! You all whine like little ****es. Bioware Don't change the ending keep it. If your these guys were you fans they would respect that this is your creation not theirs.

If you think you could do better then please I'd love to see any of you ****es make something even an inkling of the depth that this series delivers. So please quit whining.


It'd be five stars, not four. Just thought you should know for the next time you call people names.

Just so you know. It auto blocks cuss words to four stars. So your dumb. 


Cussing doesn't help you try to make a point at all. It hurts it.


The kid cussing up a storm is calling us whiney... lol. And most of us have written better endings. The indoctrination theory exists for a reason. And all your points just flew out the window.

#11902
TwentyDunhills

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jeweledleah wrote...

SuperClutch16 wrote...



This is so on the money...


yes.  yes it is


Absolutely.  A bit long, but dead on.  Conciseness is not this guy's strong suit.  But as I've argued in previous posts, I completely agree with the loss of narrative coherence, logic, and etc.  Its some kind of hollywood producer tacked on bs ending.  Oh and I think everyone hoping for indoctrination theory is just trying to rationalize the complete failure of the ME3 ending.  There is no there there. 

#11903
ShadowOptik

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We want more games with Commander Shepard. We want the Mako back. We want gameplay like Mass Effect 1 back. We LOVED mass effect 3, just not the ending. We want to NOT lose our saves in the cloud... I still haven't played ME3 but I had the ending ruined for me 3 times, because of the controversy, no one could keep their mouth shut. Multiplayer was good, now add coop multiplayer.

We want the ability to play with ALL OF THE CHARACTERS FROM Mass Effect 1,2, and 3 throughout the next game.

#11904
Helmschmied

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Oh and I think everyone hoping for indoctrination theory is just trying to rationalize the complete failure of the ME3 ending

Well, maybe since Mass Effect 2 BioWare has gone downhill like an avalanche, but I still have that much faith in them.

#11905
cdelli01

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Bioware, it's all been said, then said again, and said some more. If you're listening out there amidst the din of discontent, know that there are those of us who aren't satisfied with the ending--for all of the reasons that have been cited, ad nauseum--but are still fans of the amazing work you do, and are rooting for you to rise from the ashes.

The vitriolic reaction to your ending is a testament to the strength of the emotional tether you created between your fans and your work. Take it as a compliment that someone like myself, who has never posted in this forum before, took the time to voice his opinion, knowing full well that the chances of you actually reading this post are next to none. That's how important your franchise is to us, that's how much we care, and that's what you should take away from all of this.

Side note: Clint Mansell's score is brilliant. Excellent choice.

#11906
avinashrath92

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buffyslayer12 wrote...

it was suggested that i repost this in the sticky thread. dont know if it will add any thing that hasn't already been said but here is my letter.

Dear bioware,


First of all I'd like to thank your production teams for making some of the
best games I've ever played. (especially the "mass effect" franchise). They have
entertained me over and over again and relived my stress in times when I needed
an outlet. When my dog died, I played mass effect. When a girlfriend broke up
with me, I played mass effect. When my father died, I played mass effect. And
while your games never fixed my problems, they did provide me with much needed
distractions. And for that I will always be grateful.


A few years ago I bought a game that I didn't think I'd like, (i hate first
person shooters) but I was bored and wanted something to do. I saw a commercial
for a game called "mass effect". It looked like an fps, but the commercial said
it was an RPG. I figured "what the heck, I'll try it". I went out purchased it
(xbox360 version), came home and began to play. I was blown away.... Best game
ever. Then I drove the mako, best game ever with the worst vehicle ever. :) But
the mako's ability to drive straight up impossible vertical inclines even won me
over eventually. I loved your game so much that when my Xbox red ringed and I
couldn't afford a new one immediately, I still needed my mass effect fix, so I
bought it for the pc. Since then, I've purchased all the dlc for both systems.
(got a new Xbox. ) purchased mass effect 2 collector edition and all of its
dlc. Both for the Xbox and ps3. And planned on getting it for the pc. Purchased
four different mass effect books as well as t shirts from the bioware store. (my
favorite being the mako mountain climbing one). Over the years I must have
invested over a thousand hours to the mass effect series, I have 9 different
playthroughs of various shepherds as well as a few I haven't finished yet. I
even bought dragon age origins just to get blood dragon armor dlc. I bought an
iPhone so I could play mass effect galaxy. And I drank dr pepper for a week just
to get the dlc under the caps for me2. ( I hate dr pepper).


Then me3 was announced. I was thrilled when I would read interviews
promising multiple ending resolutions to the story. I preordered the game a year
before its release. I had every intention of buying all three
versions(Xbox,ps3,and pc). But for now I would just get the collectors edition
for the 360. I'd wait before I got the new iPhone game and app. I wanted to
enjoy mass effect the way it's intended. The midnight launch came, I picked up
my copy, went home and played for twenty hours straight. (not exaggerating ). I
was thrilled, overjoyed even. It was better then I thought it would be. Then I
got to the ending... It felt like I had been kicked in the crotch by a mule. I
was given a choice of outcomes that use the worst logic I've ever heard and not
given the option to argue with this magical genocidal maniac ai. I had to
sacrifice my shepherd for what felt like no good reason, I always new this might
not end well that shep might not survive. But my options were a, b, or c. A.
commit genocide on the geth and ruin the galaxy by destroying the relays. B.
enforce god boys will on the galaxy by making everyone the same and ruin the
galaxy. Or C. control the reapers and become the homicidal god child, and ruin
the galaxy.(I thought to myself, what happened to not having an a,b, or c
ending) I sat and stared at my tv screen not able to believe this was the end.
I stared so long I got a message, critical mission failure, the crucible was
destroyed. Reload. I chose control this time, I figured at least I'm not killing
a whole race of people or enforcing my will on the galaxy, I was a paragon after
all. But it didn't feel right, so I reloaded again and tried synthesis. It was
the same ending but with a green explosion. (no I said to myself I must have
done something wrong) reload. Destroy... Exact same ending in red this time and
shep breathes (at least I think it's shep). Going back to my thoughts, i must
have done something wrong, not enough war assets probably, I thought I did
everything but I must have screwed up. I got the bad ending(yes, just one
ending) to the Internet. I must figured out what I did wrong so i can get the
ending that actually makes sense. But there isn't one, there is one ending,
riddled with inconsistencies and plot holes. Not 16 unique endings...1 ending
with a choice of a.red b. blue or c. Green explosions.


To say I'm disappointed is and understatement. I've since followed the
controversy on the Internet, I've read the public response by bioware. That your
listening to feedback and want suggestions. I was going to keep quite and wait
to see what you were going to do, but I realizedif people stay silent you may
take that to mean I liked the ending. I didn't. I haven't been able to play any
of my other 8 Shepard's what's the point they all end the same way. As it stands
right now, I won't be be buying any dlc, I might not buy another bioware game, I
feel as though I was lied too. I don't trust you anymore. Maybe it's whiny, and
juvenile, it doesn't change how I feel. I'll give you the opportunity to fix
this, you deserve at least that for all the joy you've given me over the years.
I don't demand a new ending, I don't expect you to change your art, or
compromise your integrity, but no this... If I don't get satisfaction, you've
lost a costumer.


As for suggestions how and what to fix, it's been said by many others on
your forum, clarity, closure, patching plot holes, New endings.... More endings
like you said. The irony is my Shepard got the right ending the first time he
refused to make that awful nonsensical choice and the crucible was destroyed any
the races of the galaxy went down fighting. Critical mission failure.... Not
really, they died as they lived, free, independent, unique people. It's not a
happy ending, but it's an ending. And it makes more sense than bowing to the
star child. I just don't think you meant to make the best ending to a three game
franchise a critical mission failure screen. It seems.... Anti-climactic.

p.s. my other 8 sheps, as different as they are. will get the same ending.

p.p.s. forgive any spelling errors, my spell check goes wonky every now and then.

p.p.p.s. hold the line.

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/alien.png[/smilie]
LOL ....same story here....every part is the same... i chose the destroy option everytime though because frankly that's the true option that i am sure Shepard will pick. Logic: You don't sacrifice your humanity or Kroganity or Turianity to become a synthetic...that's too big a decision for any one person or star child :ph34r:. Secondly i spent two whole years in the pursuit of destroying the damn evil metal ****s....why the hell would i control them...become the next catalyst and then eradicate the galaxy of life in the next cycle!?! Destroy is definitely the best option. Plus, the biggest bonus is that Shepard lives.

#11907
Xellith

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Your choices dont matter. Nothing you do has any concequences that are relevant in almost any capacity because your choices are ultimately funneled into one of three choices. Three choices that do not matter because nothing you do beforehand influences what you get in any clear way.

The three choices you do get are 95% identical with no elaboration on what exactly you just did or what happened to the galaxy at large.

The main narrative is fine until you are decided you HAVE to die and your choices are irrelevant. You dont sacrifice anything when you are forced to die. If I held a gun to your head and said "ok im gonna shoot you now so just pick a color then I am gonna shoot you". How is that a sacrifice? Thats how I feel regarding the ending.

The ending sucked. Nothing you have ever done matters because nothing you ever do influences the outcome at the final hours of the game. If I was given an OPTION to die then I might be inclined to choose it. Thereby me sacrificing myself. Im not going to kill myself just because you tell me to.

The ending is so contrived.

Just had to get that off my chest. I wont be buying anymore bioware products until this is resolved.

#11908
TwentyDunhills

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Xellith wrote...

Your choices dont matter. Nothing you do has any concequences that are relevant in almost any capacity because your choices are ultimately funneled into one of three choices. Three choices that do not matter because nothing you do beforehand influences what you get in any clear way.

The three choices you do get are 95% identical with no elaboration on what exactly you just did or what happened to the galaxy at large.

The main narrative is fine until you are decided you HAVE to die and your choices are irrelevant. You dont sacrifice anything when you are forced to die. If I held a gun to your head and said "ok im gonna shoot you now so just pick a color then I am gonna shoot you". How is that a sacrifice? Thats how I feel regarding the ending.

The ending sucked. Nothing you have ever done matters because nothing you ever do influences the outcome at the final hours of the game. If I was given an OPTION to die then I might be inclined to choose it. Thereby me sacrificing myself. Im not going to kill myself just because you tell me to.

The ending is so contrived.

Just had to get that off my chest. I wont be buying anymore bioware products until this is resolved.


Agree.  Utterly contrived.  Its not open to interpretation - it makes no sense.  Its not even rational enough to be a twist ending.

And guys - don't just express yourself on facebook/twitter.  Vote with your wallet.  Don't buy the DLCs and don't buy the next release by Bioware.

#11909
azile0

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I'm not going to buy ANY BioWare games until they win me back. I can't believe I actually bought From Ashes. I feel betrayed by a company I used to love.

#11910
zingro

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jeweledleah wrote...

SuperClutch16 wrote...



This is so on the money...


yes.  yes it is


Yes. That is pure win.

Bioware, please dont choose the option to destroy your fanbase. :? Remove hologram kid.

#11911
ursa1979

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akenn312 wrote...


ursa1979 wrote...


I don't think the Catylist hates organic life, in fact the whole purpose of the 50,000 year Reaper cycle was to preserve a balance between organics and synthetics. I just took it to be a misguided strategy that ultimately limited both synthetics and organics.  The strategy was based on the assumption that synthethtics will inevitably rise up and destroy all organic life, and you spend the game disproving this assumption (eg. EDI, the geth). I agree that there are some plot holes (like how space magic works, and how the Normandy escaped with your group members), but plot "holes" don't bother me, some stuff can remain unexplained or be explained later in DLC.  It is the plot inconsistencies that bother me, and I do not really see any.


I see the plot incosistancy as they turn the epic hero that does everything to solve a problem into a lost wounded man who just goes along with a brand new concept without asking why. Because he is remided of a child that died. Also the ending tries to turn the leader of the biggest know evil in the galaxy into a wise childlike AI...with extremly flawed wisdom. he becomes the focus of the story Shepard is now a pawn. They stop all character resolution and charcter formula for a forced new resolution to this great conflict that went across three very good games.



See I think that the Catalyst/Reapers are the big bad because the have kept both synthetic and organic life traped in 50,000 year loop for countless eons.  And it was a cycle without hope because no matter what a civilization did through art, , science, tech., philosophy, etc., it would just be reset and destroyed... so it is all meaningless.  I don't think Shepard is a "pawn" or a "lost wounded man" I think he is the ultimate hero because he is the one that breaks the cycle and gives hope to both organics and synthetics (unless you chose red.. then just organics).  They can control their own destiny now thanks to Shepard.  This to me is the point of that last scene with the old man and the child. To me this is consistent with choice centric nature of the Mass Effect series because that is the gift Shepard gave the future.... the ability to chose their own destiny.

I think your idea of a greater evil that the Catalyst/Reapers are collecting tech to take on is a cool one. But I think the idea of breaking free the enless cycle of Reaping is interesting enough for me.

#11912
TwentyDunhills

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ursa1979 wrote...

akenn312 wrote...


ursa1979 wrote...


I don't think the Catylist hates organic life, in fact the whole purpose of the 50,000 year Reaper cycle was to preserve a balance between organics and synthetics. I just took it to be a misguided strategy that ultimately limited both synthetics and organics.  The strategy was based on the assumption that synthethtics will inevitably rise up and destroy all organic life, and you spend the game disproving this assumption (eg. EDI, the geth). I agree that there are some plot holes (like how space magic works, and how the Normandy escaped with your group members), but plot "holes" don't bother me, some stuff can remain unexplained or be explained later in DLC.  It is the plot inconsistencies that bother me, and I do not really see any.


I see the plot incosistancy as they turn the epic hero that does everything to solve a problem into a lost wounded man who just goes along with a brand new concept without asking why. Because he is remided of a child that died. Also the ending tries to turn the leader of the biggest know evil in the galaxy into a wise childlike AI...with extremly flawed wisdom. he becomes the focus of the story Shepard is now a pawn. They stop all character resolution and charcter formula for a forced new resolution to this great conflict that went across three very good games.



See I think that the Catalyst/Reapers are the big bad because the have kept both synthetic and organic life traped in 50,000 year loop for countless eons.  And it was a cycle without hope because no matter what a civilization did through art, , science, tech., philosophy, etc., it would just be reset and destroyed... so it is all meaningless.  I don't think Shepard is a "pawn" or a "lost wounded man" I think he is the ultimate hero because he is the one that breaks the cycle and gives hope to both organics and synthetics (unless you chose red.. then just organics).  They can control their own destiny now thanks to Shepard.  This to me is the point of that last scene with the old man and the child. To me this is consistent with choice centric nature of the Mass Effect series because that is the gift Shepard gave the future.... the ability to chose their own destiny.

I think your idea of a greater evil that the Catalyst/Reapers are collecting tech to take on is a cool one. But I think the idea of breaking free the enless cycle of Reaping is interesting enough for me.


I think there did not need to be a twist ending.  The Reapers do not need to be controlled by some kind of star child AI, or believe in their mission because of some supremely higher purpose.  Its not really about them afterall.

As for the choices, well they are not really choices.  I mean nothing you do in all 3 games in any way changes them for anyone.  You can start at ME1 or ME3 and end here.  I feel the star child's explanation is irrational and tacked on.  I don't want to rehash the 'I invented synthetics to kill you in order to save you from being killed by synthetics' hillarity.

#11913
Ronish

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Garrus sniping contest. Let him win. Was hilarious.

On the ending. Not sure what the direction was, but the music playing during the video was an excellent match.

Cheers

#11914
TurtleHero

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Maybe..... Shepard is still in the Geth consensus! dun dun dun! just kidding. I hope people find peace with Mass effect 3 soon :)

#11915
ursa1979

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TwentyDunhills wrote...

ursa1979 wrote...

akenn312 wrote...


ursa1979 wrote...


I don't think the Catylist hates organic life, in fact the whole purpose of the 50,000 year Reaper cycle was to preserve a balance between organics and synthetics. I just took it to be a misguided strategy that ultimately limited both synthetics and organics.  The strategy was based on the assumption that synthethtics will inevitably rise up and destroy all organic life, and you spend the game disproving this assumption (eg. EDI, the geth). I agree that there are some plot holes (like how space magic works, and how the Normandy escaped with your group members), but plot "holes" don't bother me, some stuff can remain unexplained or be explained later in DLC.  It is the plot inconsistencies that bother me, and I do not really see any.


I see the plot incosistancy as they turn the epic hero that does everything to solve a problem into a lost wounded man who just goes along with a brand new concept without asking why. Because he is remided of a child that died. Also the ending tries to turn the leader of the biggest know evil in the galaxy into a wise childlike AI...with extremly flawed wisdom. he becomes the focus of the story Shepard is now a pawn. They stop all character resolution and charcter formula for a forced new resolution to this great conflict that went across three very good games.



See I think that the Catalyst/Reapers are the big bad because the have kept both synthetic and organic life traped in 50,000 year loop for countless eons.  And it was a cycle without hope because no matter what a civilization did through art, , science, tech., philosophy, etc., it would just be reset and destroyed... so it is all meaningless.  I don't think Shepard is a "pawn" or a "lost wounded man" I think he is the ultimate hero because he is the one that breaks the cycle and gives hope to both organics and synthetics (unless you chose red.. then just organics).  They can control their own destiny now thanks to Shepard.  This to me is the point of that last scene with the old man and the child. To me this is consistent with choice centric nature of the Mass Effect series because that is the gift Shepard gave the future.... the ability to chose their own destiny.

I think your idea of a greater evil that the Catalyst/Reapers are collecting tech to take on is a cool one. But I think the idea of breaking free the enless cycle of Reaping is interesting enough for me.


I think there did not need to be a twist ending.  The Reapers do not need to be controlled by some kind of star child AI, or believe in their mission because of some supremely higher purpose.  Its not really about them afterall.

As for the choices, well they are not really choices.  I mean nothing you do in all 3 games in any way changes them for anyone.  You can start at ME1 or ME3 and end here.  I feel the star child's explanation is irrational and tacked on.  I don't want to rehash the 'I invented synthetics to kill you in order to save you from being killed by synthetics' hillarity.


I agree with you that there did not need to be a twist ending and that the Reapers did not need to be controlled byt the star child AI or whatever. In fact they did not really need to be explained at all.  I just don't think the explanation detracted much.

I disagree with you about the choices however... but I am sure this is well worn territory on these forums and the battle lines have been drawn.  To try to be concise my view is that significance of your previous choices show up throughout the entire last game.  When I saw how different my wife's game was from mine I was shocked (The Tali scene in particular made my jaw drop). I agree that the final choice is the same for everyone, but I took this to be Shepards fate... to face down the Reapers. And although we only got ending cinematics with differing color palates, the shape of the universe moving forward is wildly different depending on the choice you made. No synthetic life, the synthesis of both (whatever the hell that means), or organics and synthetics trying to coexist.

#11916
Heavymetal.fan

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I believe this game was an excellent game. They improved on the gameplay in my opinion.Felt really smooth. So I dont get why people are saying its a bad game. I was also disappointed by the ending but its no reason to go ape**** on the game and they have announced that they will try to adress the problems in a dlc.

Anyway my thoughts on the ending.

My problems really didnt start with the ending but with the last mission. The cutscene where all the ships were coming through the mass relay into earths orbit was epic. It was like "IM BACK MOFOS AND I BROUGHT MY FRIENDS". From their it kinda spiraled down. The feeling of the game went from kicking ass into despartation which is ok but, it felt like all hope was lost. It would be nice to show that the good guys did some damage to you know. Showing that all of those war assets you collected werent for nothing. I would have prefered all the major war assets you collected kicking some reapers ass(Maybe small cutscenes of all the races and other groups your collected handing it to the reapers). Not making it look like they were trying to kill reapers with water guns or some ****. The gameplay of the last mission was pretty good but the whole atmosphere of desperation was to much for me. I understand what they were trying to portary but they should have added more kick ass. Atleast thats how I felt after I played the last mission of ME2 I worked hard to get my squad ready and it payed off in the end. 

Then came the end. If I tryed to explain what I didnt like about it would make for a whole essay lol. I just did not like it period. Im sure an epic boss battle with harbinger or something of the sort would have worked much better. Not some little kid telling me I am chaotic. Again I understand what they were going for but it just didnt fit right with the whole ME feeling IMO.

TL:DR

Put more kick ass in the final mission and maybe a boss fight. YOU GOT YOURSELF AN ALMOST FLAWLESS GAME!!!

Modifié par Heavymetal.fan, 29 mars 2012 - 03:51 .


#11917
TwentyDunhills

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Heavymetal.fan wrote...

I believe this game was an excellent game. They improved on the gameplay in my opinion.Felt really smooth. So I dont get why people are saying its a bad game. I was also disappointed by the ending but its no reason to go ape**** on the game and they have announced that they will try to adress the problems in a dlc.

Anyway my thoughts on the ending.

My problems really didnt start with the ending but with the last mission. The cutscene where all the ships were coming through the mass relay into earths orbit was epic. It was like "IM BACK MOFOS AND I BROUGHT MY FRIENDS". From their it kinda spiraled down. The feeling of the game went from kicking ass into despartation which is ok but, it felt like all hope was lost. It would be nice to show that the good guys did some damage to you know. Showing that all of those war assets you collected werent for nothing. I would have prefered all the major war assets you collected kicking some reapers ass(Maybe small cutscenes of all the races and other groups your collected handing it to the reapers). Not making it look like they were trying to kill reapers with water guns or some ****. The gameplay of the last mission was pretty good but the whole atmosphere of desperation was to much for me. I understand what they were trying to portary but they should have added more kick ass. Atleast thats how I felt after I played the last mission of ME2 I worked hard to get my squad ready and it payed off in the end. 

Then came the end. If I tryed to explain what I didnt like about it would make for a whole essay lol. I just did not like it period. Im sure an epic boss battle with harbinger or something of the sort would have worked much better. Not some little kid telling me I am chaotic. Again I understand what they were going for but it just didnt fit right with the whole ME feeling IMO.

TL:DR

Put more kick ass in the final mission and maybe a boss fight. YOU GOT YOURSELF AN ALMOST FLAWLESS GAME!!!


I know you say there is no reason to get ape with the game over the ending but you also finish your post with this

"Then came the end. If I tryed to explain what I didnt like about it
would make for a whole essay lol. I just did not like it period."  The more people like you post, the more I realize what a large group of people were disappointed by the ending for one reason or another.  Most don't realize how much until they start writing their post.

Since this is the final game, the ending is kind of important versus the last two.  It concludes the story, or at least your part in it.  So I can understand why people's emotions run a bit high given the amount of money they spent, on this game, the other two games, the DLCs, the DLC that came with this game, etc.  Plus, I felt as though Bioware made some promises that they did not deliver on.  I know they would like to reference artistic integrity, and I hope that they really do go back, look at the expectations they set, and revisit that whole integrity question.

#11918
OneDrunkMonk

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I do have to say, things were pretty intense, in a good way, right up until I got back to the Citadel.

#11919
Heavymetal.fan

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No I was disappointed but I was not saying stuff like I will never trust Bioware or buy any of there stuff and verbally abusing them. I mean for there are people that have said that they got depressed. Sure the ending was bad but its not the end of the world.

#11920
Lordambitious

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From the final mission on, we need to see that our choices mattered. The Rachni were hyped as playing a major role in the final battle, but we never see them, same with the geth despite my shep making peace between them and the quarians.

And bring back the Dark Energy ending! Actually utilize all those plot threads and foreshadowing from ME1 and ME2, don't resort to a nonsensical Deus Ex Machina, with absolutist logic that clashes philosophically, thematically and has been proven to be flawed by Shepard on at least 3 separate occasions.

Not to mention all the plot holes the "Catalyst is the citadel's consciousness" bit creates. That just doesn't mesh continuity wise with the lore of the previous 3 games.

#11921
TwentyDunhills

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Heavymetal.fan wrote...

No I was disappointed but I was not saying stuff like I will never trust Bioware or buy any of there stuff and verbally abusing them. I mean for there are people that have said that they got depressed. Sure the ending was bad but its not the end of the world.


I figure you're going to have your 1% extremists and immature posters no matter what.  I've learned to ignore those people by default throughout life - they bring nothing useful to the table.  I have no issue with people disliking the ending for different reasons, or liking it really - though I find it hard to see any good in.  I thought the game played genuinely differently depending on what choices you made until the end.  But it got really disjointed on the ground, after spending more time thinking about I've kind of figured out where it started to go wrong. 

Saving for the next post ->

#11922
Lordambitious

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I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my least favorite ending on the Citadel.

#11923
Heavymetal.fan

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Yeah I understand. Btw that 40 min video explaining why the ending is bad really shed some light on me lol. But yeah I kinda hope the indoctrination theory is true because I don't understand how the dlc will "fix" the ending.

#11924
akenn312

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ursa1979 wrote...

akenn312 wrote...


ursa1979 wrote...


I don't think the Catylist hates organic life, in fact the whole purpose of the 50,000 year Reaper cycle was to preserve a balance between organics and synthetics. I just took it to be a misguided strategy that ultimately limited both synthetics and organics.  The strategy was based on the assumption that synthethtics will inevitably rise up and destroy all organic life, and you spend the game disproving this assumption (eg. EDI, the geth). I agree that there are some plot holes (like how space magic works, and how the Normandy escaped with your group members), but plot "holes" don't bother me, some stuff can remain unexplained or be explained later in DLC.  It is the plot inconsistencies that bother me, and I do not really see any.


I see the plot incosistancy as they turn the epic hero that does everything to solve a problem into a lost wounded man who just goes along with a brand new concept without asking why. Because he is remided of a child that died. Also the ending tries to turn the leader of the biggest know evil in the galaxy into a wise childlike AI...with extremly flawed wisdom. he becomes the focus of the story Shepard is now a pawn. They stop all character resolution and charcter formula for a forced new resolution to this great conflict that went across three very good games.



See I think that the Catalyst/Reapers are the big bad because the have kept both synthetic and organic life traped in 50,000 year loop for countless eons.  And it was a cycle without hope because no matter what a civilization did through art, , science, tech., philosophy, etc., it would just be reset and destroyed... so it is all meaningless.  I don't think Shepard is a "pawn" or a "lost wounded man" I think he is the ultimate hero because he is the one that breaks the cycle and gives hope to both organics and synthetics (unless you chose red.. then just organics).  They can control their own destiny now thanks to Shepard.  This to me is the point of that last scene with the old man and the child. To me this is consistent with choice centric nature of the Mass Effect series because that is the gift Shepard gave the future.... the ability to chose their own destiny.

I think your idea of a greater evil that the Catalyst/Reapers are collecting tech to take on is a cool one. But I think the idea of breaking free the enless cycle of Reaping is interesting enough for me.


You can look at it that way, but I still think the catyist's three choices puts it back to they still can't contol thier own destiny. For example Shepard chooses control, now everything stays the same but without the Mass Relays. So people will have to develop technology to get to thier homeworlds that is a bad problem. Also the one person that united everyone is gone and they have no idea of why all this has happened since no one is there to witness the discussion with Shepard and the Catylist so the cycle begins again. Now Shepard is the Catylist that will be programed to start up the Reaper menace again to stop the next organic & synthetic war that will eventualy come up. This turns Shepard into the bad guy now not the hero that fought for us. That seems like a Renagade action to me. But that's my opinion.

Shepard chooses synergy and man and machine merge, well this is another destiny controlled by the Reapers and Shepard. The main problem I have with this ending is since machines have aready learned they can live with organics and that threat is erased why force everyone to change into something they are not? Why if the Catylist has the ability to develop a machine that can change all peoples DNA then why does he need Shepard at all? He could have done this before and saved all this bloodshed. 

I still think these are the Catylists choices, not Shepard making a choice against a difficult problem or tying to find a better way and it goes against the main part of the story about staying who you are but caring about others lives even machines. The Shepard (even the Renegade one) we all know would never chose the first two. Shepard would not force people to become machines just to stop the Reapers. Shepard is about individuallity and diversity. The point of this was to stop the Reapers so we wouldn't be forced to be something we are not. Keeping the races intact.

A Renagade shepard destroying all sythetic life that part I could agree with. So actually the destroy choice is the only choice I actually can feel makes sense for the game because it's selfish and what a Renagde Shepard would do. But it's also weird that the Renagade dream sequence has Anderson shooting the machine why is Anderson considerd bad all of a sudden?

Also it is weird that to save Andersons life from the Illusive man it's considerd a Rengade prompt? Really? So saving my friend from getting shot in the head from the indoctrinated power hungry traitor that forced me to shoot Anderson in the belly for fun is a selfish move? 

Again makes no sense. But I even let that slide.

I hate the Indoctriantion theory because I think it's worse than the ending we have now but man they just didn't think this through well. IMO I think the current ending had potential witht he possible first draft just why they made it like this is weird. 
 

Modifié par akenn312, 29 mars 2012 - 04:40 .


#11925
Fred_MacManus

Fred_MacManus
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Sphynxian wrote...

As an aside, was I the only one who -- when presented with the three choices at the end of the game --- turned around and fired off a couple rounds (fruitlessly) into the AI/Star Child/Deus ex Machina?

I was seriously hoping it was some sort of fake-out. I was just waiting, waiting for there to be some sort of Renegade interrupt where you could pull the plug on him and... I don't know.

Anything other than what we got.


I think I can pretty much guarantee you're not the only one.