23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Raven136]

jla0644 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Life is like this. You don't always get a happy ending

Thanks, but I don't need a videogame, a source of entertainment, a mode of escape from how crappy life can be, to remind me how crappy life can be.

I totally agree! I play games so I can take a break from life. They entertain me, they give me a place where I can save the galaxy (which used to be literally in the Mass Effect series). I poured two hundred hours into one character just to see him successfully stop the Reapers. Not to watch him effectively destroy that galaxy.

[Valdimier]

 I will use this thread to give you guys at Bioware and EA my opinion on ME 3.

First thing... This is MY opinion and because of that I will use the terms I/MY/ME. If somebody agrees... fine. If not... also fine 
Second... My english is not so good, so please excuse some errors. I think you will get my point.

In short.... I know you will provide extra content, but if this ending is the real deal than I`m gone with you guys.

And here are my reasons why...

1. My point of view as a customer.

Basically you just flat out lied to me about the game. You promised me wildly different endings and you didn`t deliver. You promised my closure to most of my questions. You told me I won`t get a "Lost" ending that will deliver more questions then answers. In my opinion this was all some stupid PR to hype the game skyhigh.

Then comes Dr. Ray Muzyka´s blog entry and in my opinion it was a waste of space and time

"Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics – but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility."

Ok, first of... Your fans pay for the games. The critics mostly not.
Second... A german gaming magazine named "Game Pro", which gave the game 93%, wrote in the articel "The are countless different endings in which every decision pours in." 

We know that this is plain bullsh*t.... So how could they come up with this??
A. They played a different ME 3 version? (I don`t think so)
B. EA bought the articel? (I hope not)
C. They never played the game really well? (obviously)

In every case, it is a very bad idea to use this critic for your stand.


"I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted"

So you believe that this is your best work?
A game where I mostly can`t import my Mass Effect 1 character, because of a bug? Where I lose my multiplayer credits without getting my goods? Where I can`t complete quests because of bugs?

So you not only sold me a game under false advertising... You also sold me a faulty product and call it your best work?? Very bad idea.

B. My point of view on the whole "it`s art" thing.

I can`t press this enough. It´s your story and when you have the feeling that this story needs to end this way, then it`s fine with me.

But for me the ending is so poorly written that I can`t believe that this is a  Bioware game at all.

1. You used one of the overused plot twists ever in history of story making.
2. It mostly makes now sense.
3. It uses dumb plotholes to keep people talking about it and basicly tells them to fill out the blanks. This is just cheap.

Yeah I know... There are people who tell me, that I don`t get the ending, but yeah... I get it. And that is, because I already read so much SciFi novels that I heard this kind of final outcome more than once and that is also pretty lame for a Bioware game. Whoever wrote this ending was way over his/her head and used a wrong ending on the wrong story or just failed big time in being a smart*ss

So... If this is "your" art then I can tell you that I don`t like it and I don`t see a reason why I blindly should pay you 60 bucks for your next game. I also don`t understand why I should pay 8 bucks for the day one DLC when it is art? When I go into a museum I normally pay the entrance fee and  don`t have to pay additional money, to see certain pictures.

So yes... I am very disappointed with this whole situation and for me Bioware and EA put themselves in a corner, because...

... if the ending with starchild stays, I´m out and Bioware won`t see any money from me in the future because they lost their edge
.... if they change the ending and charge money for it, I´m also gone
.... if this ending is not the real ending and this thing was just an really big setup (maybe Indoc) then I pray to god that you won`t charge us for the real deal, because this will be a new low in gaming history
.... if the real deal is still coming and it is for free I hope you guys realize that this was not a good idea after all.

Just my opinion and I have to make something clear. I love Mass Effet. It is one of my favorite SciFi franchise and that is the only reason why I´m writing this. 

Modifié par Valdimier, 29 mars 2012 - 02:39 .

[improperdancing]

Omnike wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Life is like this. You don't always get a happy ending

Hey, you were the kid that kept arguing with me about how you understood the ending, yet failed to explain the plot holes. You did such a good job kid. Starting again, I see? Good luck buddy. There's about an army of people like me.

Some people will defend a company or product regardless of how good or bad it is, and despite whether or not they can actually justify that defense.

Take the staunchest of the Apple supporters.  Apple could institute a new policy where every customer is sodomized with each purchase of an Apple product (this seems scarily plausible, by the way) and those hardcore fans would figure out a way to justify it.

Thanatos is one of those guys.  He can't realistically convey why he loved the ending, or even come up with legitimate reasons why it was good, but he will defend it anyway, because that's what hardcore fanboys do.

[DarkFaerie316]

Raven136 wrote...

jla0644 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Life is like this. You don't always get a happy ending

Thanks, but I don't need a videogame, a source of entertainment, a mode of escape from how crappy life can be, to remind me how crappy life can be.

I totally agree! I play games so I can take a break from life. They entertain me, they give me a place where I can save the galaxy (which used to be literally in the Mass Effect series). I poured two hundred hours into one character just to see him successfully stop the Reapers. Not to watch him effectively destroy that galaxy.

I too agree, games are a way for me to relax and have fun in the evening. I like having my happy endings in games. I know real life doesn't always have them but when did games become real life? Are we all just images on discs now? Was there a post I missed informing us of this? Games are for fun and therefore should be the escape from day to day life we want. If I want "real life" to relax with in the evenings, I'll watch the news channels!!

[Omnike]

improperdancing wrote...

Omnike wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Life is like this. You don't always get a happy ending

Hey, you were the kid that kept arguing with me about how you understood the ending, yet failed to explain the plot holes. You did such a good job kid. Starting again, I see? Good luck buddy. There's about an army of people like me.

Some people will defend a company or product regardless of how good or bad it is, and despite whether or not they can actually justify that defense.

Take the staunchest of the Apple supporters.  Apple could institute a new policy where every customer is sodomized with each purchase of an Apple product (this seems scarily plausible, by the way) and those hardcore fans would figure out a way to justify it.

Thanatos is one of those guys.  He can't realistically convey why he loved the ending, or even come up with legitimate reasons why it was good, but he will defend it anyway, because that's what hardcore fanboys do.

A tad misguided, I feel? I'd say a lot of hardcore fans are the most disappointed. I know I am. Maybe it's just denial.

[akenn312]

NotAnotherDisplayName wrote...

akenn312 wrote...

The Prothean character was the warning of the downfall. I loved the artistic way they never showed a Prothean or had a real Prothean as a character. Even in 2 they hinted at what Protheans looked like but you still never knew because of the indoctrination, it gave the series a great mystery so you had to imagine what a Prothean was. But adding Javik and making him a paid DLC dumbed it down. Also he was not the majestic being we all probably envisioned but a sarcastic jerk, who looked down on everyone. Heck Zaeed Masani was more likable than Javik was. Maybe this was what was coming from Mass effect 2... they kept bringing in more bad clichés than well thought out characters. So the Catylist is just one more part of the Mass Effect downfall.

Couple of points here, you see a Prothean in the original ME1 vision Shepard gets from the beacon- it has glowing eyes but it's not as screwed up looking like the ones in ME2, it looks a lot like Javik.

Also, personally, I kind of like that Javik was kind of a jerk- if you read Liara's journal entries, or if you have him when you go to the Asari temple, there is some interesting stuff there.  The whole idea that the galaxy idolized the Protheans and assumed they were this great benevolent race, but it turns out that they were a powerful empire that ruled by force and intimidation kind of mirrors our own human history.  I thought it was an interesting twist.  To be frank, when he first showed up I hated him and didn't want to talk to him until a friend suggested some of his dialog was interesting.  His personality does change some as the game progresses.

I am probably being nitpicky on the Javik part, I didn't hate him but I was hoping he would have more to add to the story since the whole series begins on the interpreted warnings from this majestic mysterious race of people. He also just seems rushed and one dimensional, in ME 1 & 2 it took major conversations and Paragon choices to get aliens & humans to trust you, they also had better motivations or purpose to do what they do. Wrex liked to kick butt but in a deeper way he was more about fighting for his race's survival. Javik basically says, "Yeah I’m here to talk crap to Liara and get revenge, I don't know anything about any crucible Prothean stuff." That’s all he really is they make an attempt at making him deeper but to me is seems rushed as well. He does add to the Thessia mission in a great way but not a lot else, if you take him to the Illusive Man's base he has nothing to say when the Prothean AI is telling you basically what the Crucible is. He just stands there listening. As a DLC Zaeed makes sense to be this way he is a 
one-dimensional extra character and not crucial to the story line. He doesn’t change the way you view humans, or the original concept of the main part of the story like Javik changes how you view the Prothean race. Rather than being this mysterious unfortunate race that were enslaved by an unimaginable evil they are now a bunch of elitist jerks that stooped to the Reapers level just to save themselves. In contrast Legion who follows the Mass Effect formula changes the main concept of the Geth being evil but to do this they show many levels of Legion’s story and motivation to get to that point.  

Javik is not the bad part to of the game just one of the reasons Mass effect 3 starts loosing its narrative and is getting away from the good formula in Mass Effect 1 & 2 in my opinion. Javik to me is just like the Catylist "light kid" they added in a new concept without really thinking it through, now the Reapers are bunch of machines that's just a noble but misguided AI’s idea to try and save us from ourselves. So to do this you have to start massive impalements and brutal mass harvesting and indoctrinations? In Mass Effect 1 the Reapers were the Borg times ten they actually showed they despised all organic life and wanted to do nothing but snuff it out for fun. They didn't need us for resources or to study us they just do it because they can. That's why the impailments and indoctination made sense

Now it's the Reapers really don't want to snuff us out but they have too because you organics make us do it?
It just adds more confusion because the story completely goes away from what was first started.

It’s like they just decided to Dump Mass Effect 1’s core concepts and make a whole new direction to tell the story quickly and without a lot of thought. I like Mass Effect for Mass Effect not some cut down version of what Mass Effect 1 & 2 was. Our audience is too intelligent for a dumbed down Sci-fi space opera. We will see through these bad attempts at storytelling.

[improperdancing]

Omnike wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

Some people will defend a company or product regardless of how good or bad it is, and despite whether or not they can actually justify that defense.

Take the staunchest of the Apple supporters.  Apple could institute a new policy where every customer is sodomized with each purchase of an Apple product (this seems scarily plausible, by the way) and those hardcore fans would figure out a way to justify it.

Thanatos is one of those guys.  He can't realistically convey why he loved the ending, or even come up with legitimate reasons why it was good, but he will defend it anyway, because that's what hardcore fanboys do.

A tad misguided, I feel? I'd say a lot of hardcore fans are the most disappointed. I know I am. Maybe it's just denial.

I didn't say every fan would defend a company to the death.  Just a small minority. 

You see this on forums for game consoles (or the PC) as well.  A small group of people will defend their console (or PC) of choice no matter what and regardless of logic.  It's just the mentality some people have for whatever reason.

[Thanatos144]

Sure try and just paint me as a fanboy

[Benchpress610]

ifritanshiva wrote...

Raven136 wrote...

jla0644 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Life is like this. You don't always get a happy ending

Thanks, but I don't need a videogame, a source of entertainment, a mode of escape from how crappy life can be, to remind me how crappy life can be.

I totally agree! I play games so I can take a break from life. They entertain me, they give me a place where I can save the galaxy (which used to be literally in the Mass Effect series). I poured two hundred hours into one character just to see him successfully stop the Reapers. Not to watch him effectively destroy that galaxy.

I too agree, games are a way for me to relax and have fun in the evening. I like having my happy endings in games. I know real life doesn't always have them but when did games become real life? Are we all just images on discs now? Was there a post I missed informing us of this? Games are for fun and therefore should be the escape from day to day life we want. If I want "real life" to relax with in the evenings, I'll watch the news channels!!

Agreed. I'll just paste a section of a post y posted about 100 pages back:

"......
a video game is…well… a GAME. It’s supposed to be fun. If there is no fun in a game, we might as well call it something else. Yes, video game is an art form. It requires considerable effort and dedication from a talented and artistic minded group of people who deserve to be rewarded monetarily and morally for their art. But at the end of the day, it’s still a game that we play to overcome some kind of challenge and have fun beating it. When I say fun, I mean satisfaction, the satisfaction of seeing my hero come through in the must difficult situations, the satisfaction of achieving a good outcome when I know I accomplished every goal according to the game parameters established beforehand."

[Versidious]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Versidious wrote...

..... Maybe pet names? Ash's 'skipper' is a good example of something that could work along those lines.........re!

Actually "skipper" is an informal title/nickname given to commanding officers in the US Navy.

Yes, I know. I'm pretty sure everyone does (I'm British, and the US got it from us, by the way. It's used on English-speaking ships regardless of nation or whether they're military). Noone else uses it except Ash, though, and she uses it affectionately (I can't be sure, but I even don't recall her using it in public, though perhaps that's just my memory lying to me), as part of her banter. Throughout ME1, she uses your relative rank to flirt and gauge your interest, so it fits with the notion of a familiar address.

[prizm123]

i apologize in advance for being crass in my description...

for a lot of people the Mass Effect series was like having sex with the hottest girl you can imagine, and just when you are about to finish, you go limp, hence the dissatisfaction

Modifié par prizm123, 29 mars 2012 - 03:02 .

[Benchpress610]

Versidious wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

Versidious wrote...

..... Maybe pet names? Ash's 'skipper' is a good example of something that could work along those lines.........re!

Actually "skipper" is an informal title/nickname given to commanding officers in the US Navy.

Yes, I know. I'm pretty sure everyone does (I'm British, and the US got it from us, by the way. It's used on English-speaking ships regardless of nation or whether they're military). Noone else uses it except Ash, though, and she uses it affectionately (I can't be sure, but I even don't recall her using it in public, though perhaps that's just my memory lying to me), as part of her banter. Throughout ME1, she uses your relative rank to flirt and gauge your interest, so it fits with the notion of a familiar address.

Clear enough my British chap. ..given the context, I though you implied skipper as a pet name...my appologies..

[Keridwen]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Life is like this. You don't always get a happy ending

You are a strage fellow
irrespective of youre wide experiences about life, have you ever heard about a real happy end?
A story, a game or a book/movie can have a happy ending,
but life never does... it always ends with death.
And some of us do play games to get distracted form rl just a little bit... so why not a happy ending for ME3?
Like in ME2 you really had to work for a happy end, and if you don`t there is always the alternative...

Keelah Se'lai

[Versidious]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Versidious wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

Versidious wrote...

..... Maybe pet names? Ash's 'skipper' is a good example of something that could work along those lines.........re!

Actually "skipper" is an informal title/nickname given to commanding officers in the US Navy.

Yes, I know. I'm pretty sure everyone does (I'm British, and the US got it from us, by the way. It's used on English-speaking ships regardless of nation or whether they're military). Noone else uses it except Ash, though, and she uses it affectionately (I can't be sure, but I even don't recall her using it in public, though perhaps that's just my memory lying to me), as part of her banter. Throughout ME1, she uses your relative rank to flirt and gauge your interest, so it fits with the notion of a familiar address.

Clear enough my British chap. ..given the context, I though you implied skipper as a pet name...my appologies..

No, just as a familiar one! 

[Versidious]

prizm123 wrote...

i apologize in advance for being crass in my description...

for a lot of people the Mass Effect series was like having sex with the hottest girl you can imagine, and just when you are about to finish, you go limp, hence the dissatisfaction

OR it's like instead of orgasming, you suddenly suffer a really uncomfortable defecation.

[Zypxtyl]

While I don't have a problem with sad/sacrifice endings, its the fact that the choice you make along the way seem to not matter in the end that bothers me. As well as the fact that I don't play multiplayer, so despite statements to the contrary, the fact is that I can't get the "best" ending.

[AkaXan]

Bioware/EA put themselves in this postion. They put out a craptasticly poor nonsense end, that kills all our choices that we were told would have real impact on the outcome of the series and the ending also destroys the very game logic Bioware set up throughout the Mass Effect games.

Those who wrote and green lighted this ending should be let go as its done nothing for Biowares rep and dont pull the artistic integrity card after you have a history of ripping characters from your games to sell as DLC, it just makes you look foolish.

The end needs to be changed to allow player choices like Bioware promised in so many interviews. It needs to be free, its Bioware screw up, its there mess to fix and its their rep thats tanking. The fans shouldnt foot the bill for something that frankly shouldnt have got this far. If Bioware try to charge me for DLC that fixs their broken, poorly writen ending. I'm done with Bioware games.

Roll out the ending fix DLC for free to make good Bioware, you can even pretend you actually ment it to be free in the first place. Just dont get Casey of Dr Masuka to promise anything, beacuse as the fans have seen from all their interviews their word dosent mean much.

I love Biowares work, but all this crap has really got me thinking is it worth putting the money and time into future Bioware games. Bioware lack of any real concern is telling me no its not.

Modifié par AkaXan, 29 mars 2012 - 03:23 .

[Versidious]

Zypxtyl wrote...

While I don't have a problem with sad/sacrifice endings, its the fact that the choice you make along the way seem to not matter in the end that bothers me. As well as the fact that I don't play multiplayer, so despite statements to the contrary, the fact is that I can't get the "best" ending.

If you have the capability to, you should. I don't normally play multiplayer either, but ME3's really is very fun, and a couple of hour's play will seriously boost your readiness.

[NordicLord]

AkaXan wrote...

Bioware/EA put themselves in this postion. They put out a craptasticly poor nonsense end, that kills all our choices that we were told would have real impact on the outcome of the series and the ending also destroys the very game logic Bioware set up throughout the Mass Effect games.

Those who wrote and green lighted this ending should be let go as its done nothing for Biowares rep and dont pull the artistic integrity card after you have a history of ripping characters from your games to sell as DLC, it just makes you look foolish.

The end needs to be changed to allow player choices like Bioware promised in so many interviews. It needs to be free, its Bioware screw up, its there mess to fix and its their rep thats tanking. The fans shouldnt foot the bill for something that frankly shouldnt have got this far. If Bioware try to charge me for DLC that fixs their broken, poorly writen ending. I'm done with Bioware games.

Roll out the ending fix DLC for free to make good Bioware, you can even pretend you actually ment it to be free in the first place. Just dont get Casey of Dr Masuka to promise anything, beacuse as the fans have seen from all their interviews their word dosent mean much.

I love Biowares work, but all this crap has really got me thinking is it worth putting the money and time into future Bioware games. Bioware lack of any real concern is telling me no its not.

agreed

[Rainond]

i think at this moment that this is all indoctrination, i really wish bioware its planning all this to see what they can get from their fans, probably they dont like what they have in first place, so this will be a inspiration channel for them, at least to finish what they already have, and jump with a great endnig, what i do hope is they dont make a 10$ dlc or 15, but tottaly free, mass effect have one of the best histories of all time and i dont think they gonna leave this to nothing

[Aven Phoenix]

I still didn't think the ending was that BAD, just ended too quick with too much unsaid.
I feel people are overreacting hardcore.

Modifié par Aven Phoenix, 29 mars 2012 - 03:35 .

[Benchpress610]

AkaXan wrote...

Bioware/EA put themselves in this postion. They put out a craptasticly poor nonsense end, that kills all our choices that we were told would have real impact on the outcome of the series and the ending also destroys the very game logic Bioware set up throughout the Mass Effect games.

Those who wrote and green lighted this ending should be let go as its done nothing for Biowares rep and dont pull the artistic integrity card after you have a history of ripping characters from your games to sell as DLC, it just makes you look foolish.

The end needs to be changed to allow player choices like Bioware promised in so many interviews. It needs to be free, its Bioware screw up, its there mess to fix and its their rep thats tanking. The fans shouldnt foot the bill for something that frankly shouldnt have got this far. If Bioware try to charge me for DLC that fixs their broken, poorly writen ending. I'm done with Bioware games.

Roll out the ending fix DLC for free to make good Bioware, you can even pretend you actually ment it to be free in the first place. Just dont get Casey of Dr Masuka to promise anything, beacuse as the fans have seen from all their interviews their word dosent mean much.

I love Biowares work, but all this crap has really got me thinking is it worth putting the money and time into future Bioware games. Bioware lack of any real concern is telling me no its not.

I don’t have a problem with BioWare making money. I strongly believe in the free market system. I didn’t have a problem with Day 1 DLC. You don’t want to buy it, then don’t…..HOWEVER, if BW try to charge me for DLC with the endings for an incomplete game…there is where I will draw the line.
 
I will celebrate any DLC fixing the debacle about the endings, but it’d better be free.

[Versidious]

Aven Phoenix wrote...

I still didn't think the ending was that BAD, just ended too quick with too much unsaid.
I feel people are overreacting hardcore.

I disagree...  browse the forums a bit more, you'll see that people have found some serious plot holes in the ending. Perhaps spurred on by their irrational wrath at the ending's inadequacies, but their points are good ones, nevertheless.

[Lord Irvine]

Reeeen0690 wrote...

Holy cow on a stick, This guy has expanding the current ending in such a way that it would make much more sense and please a good number of fans. Its a bit long but well worth a read. Id certainly be happy with this.

http://arkis.deviant...ILERS-289902125 



To sum it up, you still have the same 3 choices but it also offers a 4th choice allowing you to argue with the Catalyst's conclusions. Accounts for your war assets level, doesnt change what some people already like, and can eventualy reveal the starchild to be Harbinger attempting to trick you. 
It also means you can lose and the cycle contiues.

Bioware pay attention this is a good way to go. Improving for the majority without upsetting the people who like the ending

[Aven Phoenix]

I just completed my own ending to Mass Effect 3, fully written, while keeping the current ending scenes in tact! I feel I filled percieved plot holes and answered a lot of questions. Although I kept the core story there, I added in scenes which make it make more sense and be far more satisying.

Most of all, I continued it substantially. It even includes a space and ground fight against Harbinger, the last reaper who found a way to avoid destruction.

I can't post it here, but if you'd like to read it, it's on my blog here on this site:
http://social.biowar...32/blog/212262/

It was uh, about 20 pages in microsoft word, 12 font, times new roman, not doublespaced.

Although I can't post it in its entire glory right here, here are some uh... Moments:

“What?” Joker looked at his console, “It’s masking itself as us now?”
“I did not anticipate I would be scanning for another Normandy. It’s could just has easily been an sensor shadow of us. We got lucky," said EDI coldly.
Another red beam screamed past, coming so close the crew can see it from the cockpit windows.
“Whoa! We got lucky again, huh?”
“No, that was skill.”
“Oh, of course.”

-----------------------------------

“Oh,” said Anderson holding up Shepard’s tags, “And I think you dropped these. Though I don’t think you’ll be needing them anymore. I’m pretty sure the brass will have to invent N8 after this one.”
Shepard grins.

-----------------------------------------

“Joker!!”
Just as the ray was about to fire, Harbinger’s body shifts hard to the side in an awkward spasm. The reaper even seemed to vocalize its sudden agony with a loud, robotic “ARG.” Sparks shot out from several of its joints.
“That is an invalid target,” boomed a very different voice from the same reaper. It was EDI’s.
Joker, who had been hell bent on reaching that tree line, stopped dead in his tracks. With eyes wider than the moon he slowly gazed back up at the shivering reaper, “…EDI?!”
“Jeff, please continue to safety. I cannot fight Harbinger with any level of reliability.”
“What? What are you talking about?! You are Harbinger!”
“Incorrect. Though I did manage to ride the catalyst’s shockwave until I was able to… Infect… Harbinger when he sustained major systems damage.”
“Unbelievable,” muttered Javik.
“Please, Jeff. Hurry.”

--------------------------------

“I OFFERED YOU SALVATION.”
“We don’t need your God damn salvation. Order has its place in the galaxy, but so does the chaos.”
“LIFE WILL NOT BE PRESERVED. IT WILL NOT ASCEND. YOU HAVE DOOMED IT ALL.”
“Maybe you’re right,” spat the commander at the top of his lung, “But we have our own ideas of salvation. You never had the right to force yours. Self determination may be messy, but it’s the only thing that makes life worth existing at all. Synthetic, organic, or both.”