23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Omnike]

Sweet Dirge wrote...

I really really really really liked the ending. A lot actually.

Why?

[improperdancing]

Chrislo1990 wrote...

Yeah you see it was Bioware's plan from the very beginning  to target new players, not the loyal passinate fans had already played ME1 and ME2 countless times. They knew that no matter what we would purchase ME3 just to see end of Shepard's story. It ended blowing up in their faces. Guess they underestimated how passionate we are over Mass Effect. It all comes down to wanting to extract as much money as possible in my opinion. I mean implementing co-op pretty much gave it away. It was completely unneccessary

Here's the thing, though...even if that were true, it still doesn't explain why the ending was so awful.  I'm sure new players would much rather have a climactic boss battle ending and a solid resolution as opposed to a poorly-written conversation wtih a kid and three underwhelming ending vids.

I'm willing to bet the ending came about as the result of one of two things:

1. EA imposed a deadline, and BioWare just didn't have time to do what they originally wanted to.  This forced them to re-write the ending and we got the crappy result.

2. A higher-up decided that more sequels were going to happen so they re-wrote the endings to keep them similar enough to support those sequels.

EIther way, bad decisions were made and we got what we got.  It's just unfortunate that one of the best modern RPGs had to go out with such a whimper.

[Dakota Strider]

As a first time player of the ME series, I was planning to go and buy ME1 and ME2 if I liked ME3. No way I am doing that now. The first two may have been better, but I will always know, in the end they all get screwed over.

[Azex]

People should watch this in depth vid on how and why the ending fails. Not just expectations but in fundemental story telling techniques. This is a really good watch and it deserves to be seen and heard.

[Chrislo1990]

improperdancing wrote...

Chrislo1990 wrote...

Yeah you see it was Bioware's plan from the very beginning  to target new players, not the loyal passinate fans had already played ME1 and ME2 countless times. They knew that no matter what we would purchase ME3 just to see end of Shepard's story. It ended blowing up in their faces. Guess they underestimated how passionate we are over Mass Effect. It all comes down to wanting to extract as much money as possible in my opinion. I mean implementing co-op pretty much gave it away. It was completely unneccessary

Here's the thing, though...even if that were true, it still doesn't explain why the ending was so awful.  I'm sure new players would much rather have a climactic boss battle ending and a solid resolution as opposed to a poorly-written conversation wtih a kid and three underwhelming ending vids.

I'm willing to bet the ending came about as the result of one of two things:

1. EA imposed a deadline, and BioWare just didn't have time to do what they originally wanted to.  This forced them to re-write the ending and we got the crappy result.

2. A higher-up decided that more sequels were going to happen so they re-wrote the endings to keep them similar enough to support those sequels.

EIther way, bad decisions were made and we got what we got.  It's just unfortunate that one of the best modern RPGs had to go out with such a whimper.

I guess I'm just trying to make sense out of what they did, from dumbing down the dialogue options and taking away player choice in the endings, it just doesn't make sense to me. Why mess with the old formula if it isn't broken? Mess with it only if you plan to improve it, not downgrade it.

 One reason I could think of was perhpas their intentiion to attact newcomers, the casual player. I remember overhearing people at Gamestop shortly after ME1 came out that they couldn't continue past the first couple of missions because it was just too boring for them. I wasn't bored at all. In fact I was hooked. Then again I've always been a player that prefers good plots in games and when it comes down to it ME isn't for everyone. It's an RPG first and foremost. You take on the role of a soldier facing overwheming odds. Sure ME has some third person shooting aspects, but it's always comes second to the story. I feel now that the devs focused way too muc on the shooting aspect this time to attract the casual player I mean that's the feeling I got from their advertising campaign.

And yes I also think EA imposed ridiculous deadlines as well. I also believe they're the ones behind the implementation of co-op.  

[improperdancing]

Chrislo1990 wrote...
I guess I'm just trying to make sense out of what they did, from dumbing down the dialogue options and taking away player choice in the endings, it just doesn't make sense to me. Why mess with the old formula if it isn't broken? Mess with it only if you plan to improve it, not downgrade it.

 One reason I could think of was perhpas their intentiion to attact newcomers, the casual player. I remember overhearing people at Gamestop shortly after ME1 came out that they couldn't continue past the first couple of missions because it was just too boring for them. I wasn't bored at all. In fact I was hooked. Then again I've always been a player that prefers good plots in games and when it comes down to it ME isn't for everyone. It's an RPG first and foremost. You take on the role of a soldier facing overwheming odds. Sure ME has some third person shooting aspects, but it's always comes second to the story. I feel now that the devs focused way too muc on the shooting aspect this time to attract the casual player I mean that's the feeling I got from their advertising campaign.

And yes I also think EA imposed ridiculous deadlines as well. I also believe they're the ones behind the implementation of co-op.  

Really, though, I don't see how the people who found the first game boring would be any less bored by the third game.  Sure, the shooting gameplay is significantly better, but the game is still filled with long non-action scenes and tons of dialogue.

The ending doesn't seem dumbed down either.  It just seems dumb.  Bad writing doesn't necessarily equate to dumbed down writing.  The things that killed the ending of Mass Effect 3 were the plot holes and the poor ending scenes, not the fact that they tried to make the game better appeal to the casual gamer.

Like I said, the casual gamer would much rather fight a big, scary boss and save the universe than talk to a kid and blow himself up by shooting a mysterious tank at close range.  Unfortunately, in this case, the casual gamer had the right idea.

[Area42T]

"On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening, but probably won't do much about it"

Fix'd

[slick1100]

Honestly, I loved the game. The endings seemed appropriate to me. No, it's not rainbows and unicorns with everyone living happily ever after. But that's how life is. Considering this is a game with lots of difficult choices as its hallmark, it seems really well done all the way through, to include the endings.

I only hope Bioware has more games like the Mass Effect saga up their sleeves!!

-Slick

[improperdancing]

slick1100 wrote...

Honestly, I loved the game. The endings seemed appropriate to me. No, it's not rainbows and unicorns with everyone living happily ever after. But that's how life is. Considering this is a game with lots of difficult choices as its hallmark, it seems really well done all the way through, to include the endings.

I only hope Bioware has more games like the Mass Effect saga up their sleeves!!

-Slick

Except none of the choices at the end were difficult.

Choosing whether Liara or Garrus will survive would be difficult.  Choosing which of three options sucks the least isn't.

[jeweledleah]

slick1100 wrote...

Honestly, I loved the game. The endings seemed appropriate to me. No, it's not rainbows and unicorns with everyone living happily ever after. But that's how life is. Considering this is a game with lots of difficult choices as its hallmark, it seems really well done all the way through, to include the endings.

I only hope Bioware has more games like the Mass Effect saga up their sleeves!!

-Slick

rainbows and unicorns.  right, because it was in any way possible with all the death and distruction throughout all 3 games, EVEN if Shepard got to have some personal happiness.  please.  just stop with rainbows and unicorns.

or real life for that matter.  this is not real life.  this is a game that's supposed to allow you to win.

sure doesn't feel like winning though, concidering how many people kept reloading to check if they did something wrong.  you know which ending choices were difficult?  DAO ones.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 31 mars 2012 - 05:33 .

[Hexley UK]

slick1100 wrote...

Honestly, I loved the game. The endings seemed appropriate to me. No, it's not rainbows and unicorns with everyone living happily ever after. But that's how life is. Considering this is a game with lots of difficult choices as its hallmark, it seems really well done all the way through, to include the endings.

I only hope Bioware has more games like the Mass Effect saga up their sleeves!!

-Slick

Because when I play a Sci-fi computer game about space aliens and other worlds what I really want is for it to be depressing...like real life.

[Kryptoniangamer]

Have to repost this link and I know others have done the same already but just finished watching it and this dude is DEAD ON, while being very hilarious.

As for what others have said, this last game moved away from what made it popular. It was an RPG with shooting elements. We didnt need crappy multiplayer or another first person shooter cause the market is flooded with them. In this game they moved away from the core to try and bring new players in, without thinking it is stupid to bring in new players to a game when this game is the third in a trilogy and casual players have no idea whats going on.

[jeweledleah]

Hexley UK wrote...

slick1100 wrote...

Honestly, I loved the game. The endings seemed appropriate to me. No, it's not rainbows and unicorns with everyone living happily ever after. But that's how life is. Considering this is a game with lots of difficult choices as its hallmark, it seems really well done all the way through, to include the endings.

I only hope Bioware has more games like the Mass Effect saga up their sleeves!!

-Slick

Because when I play a Sci-fi computer game about space aliens and other worlds what I really want is for it to be depressing...like real life.

hell, my real life is not nearly as depressing as ME3 endings were.  and its not exactly all sunshine and roses. but compared to ME3 endings - its downright idyllic.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 31 mars 2012 - 05:49 .

[Sweet Dirge]

Omnike wrote...

Sweet Dirge wrote...

I really really really really liked the ending. A lot actually.

Why?

Because I had no expectations.

[JackLaVaporiera]

slick1100 wrote...

Honestly, I loved the game. The endings seemed appropriate to me. No, it's not rainbows and unicorns with everyone living happily ever after. But that's how life is. Considering this is a game with lots of difficult choices as its hallmark, it seems really well done all the way through, to include the endings.

I only hope Bioware has more games like the Mass Effect saga up their sleeves!!

-Slick

Listen, this ending has no meaning at all and is "appropriate" only for brainless ones, I give you two option, first option is you have a seat at Bioware, I let you guess the second one...choose carefully.

[CYRAX470]

If the ending is going to be changed, and blah blah blah. My wish is that any motivation for the Reapers doing what they do, is utterly removed. Keep their goals a mystery, maybe give us some small hints that we can theorize ourselfs, but not blatant explanation. The Reapers were in ME1 and ME2, and for most of ME3, were the creatures of nightmares because we couldn't know them. We couldn't try to negotiate or understand them. They were truly alien, I'd like for them to stay that way. Any explanation will just diminish their presence as a great villainous entity.

My two cents.

[Badwolf_alpha]

 Chris, thanks for the opportunity to provide feedback.

Like most others, I loved the game but I detest the ending.

The ending, for me, is so awful, so internally inconsistent, arbitrary, railroaded and so... Stupid? That it has effectively been able to undo my love of the series and much of the enjoyment I had from it.

Prior to the concluding 10 minutes of ME3, I was heralding the series as the best video game trilogy ever. I can no longer say this. It came so close...

I implore you all (and Ray Muzyka) to watch:   (Mass Effect 3 Ending: Tastful, Understated Nerdrage).

I DO NOT WANT: clarification or explanation - I fully understand what occurs, and it is truly unsatisfactory

I sincerly hope that April brings an announcement of a new, different, rich and satisfying conclusion. Without this, I will have no further goodwill and no confidence Bioware can meet my needs as a consumer of their products.

And on a larger scale, fear it's brand will be irrevocably damaged.

[ME3FTW]

Badwolf_alpha wrote...

 Chris, thanks for the opportunity to provide feedback.

Like most others, I loved the game but I detest the ending.

The ending, for me, is so awful, so internally inconsistent, arbitrary, railroaded and so... Stupid? That it has effectively been able to undo my love of the series and much of the enjoyment I had from it.

Prior to the concluding 10 minutes of ME3, I was heralding the series as the best video game trilogy ever. I can no longer say this. It came so close...

I implore you all (and Ray Muzyka) to watch:   (Mass Effect 3 Ending: Tastful, Understated Nerdrage).

I DO NOT WANT: clarification or explanation - I fully understand what occurs, and it is truly unsatisfactory

I sincerly hope that April brings an announcement of a new, different, rich and satisfying conclusion. Without this, I will have no further goodwill and no confidence Bioware can meet my needs as a consumer of their products.

And on a larger scale, fear it's brand will be irrevocably damaged.

Another irrevocably damaged thing would be all the players who experienced the original ending.  I should have just believed the "trolls" on youtube talking about the "green boom blue boom red boom" ending. It seemed so much like trolling, but, when I discovered they were right...I was not happy(at Bioware/Ea, not the "trolls")

[N11 0RD0]

I honestly love every part of this game 100%. (the ending too).

Mass effect 3 was suppose to clear up any and all choices that were made in previous games, and it did! Going through the comms at the last scene before the "Hammer assault" to the Citadel beam was great. After reuniting with all my team before the end I honestly felt like I had nothing left to do except save the galaxy, most likely by sacrificing my life. The last rush to the beam was so hard. I actually tried my hardest to finish the game without dieing to make it feel more real, and I can honestly say that I accomplished that goal.

The ending was epic and worth it because my perspective was in the right place going in. I had said goodbye to all my squadmates (Because I never lose anyone through all 3 games), saved Anderson from being shot by the illusive man and made it to the Catalyst. I knew going in to that last scene that the odds of me getting out of there alive were slim to none so I drank in the moment. Sure it was short but I spent 10-15 minutes standing at the crossroads of the three choices, weighing them all out, remembering all my friends, remembering my morals and decisions throughout the story. When I blasted that canister to pieces I had no reservations about it, about what was going to happen, about how I thought it should have been. I knew that I had made the right decision and was proud with the outcome.

As fans of this story we were all so use to making our own choices, doing things "our own way", but I think we began to become calloused to thinking we were the ones directing the story. Which was never the case to begin with. At the beginning we were allowed the chance to play out the last 2-3 years of Commander Shepard's life, a great and ambitious life. regardless of our choices, Shepard was the hero we saw the galaxy through, any characters stories we saw outside the eyes of Shepard were an added bonus but not who the story was meant to be centered around.
In the real world when a soldier is in combat along side his troops on the battle field, he only sees and hears through his own eyes and ears. When that soldier takes a bullet to a vital part of his body and succumbs to the wound, he no longer sees/hears what is going on around him, his part in the story is over, whether he likes it or not. This same analogy fits perfectly into our portrayal of Commander Shepard's life. In the end, he dies, whether he liked it or not. The only difference between Shepard and many of those who controlled him is that he was prepared and willing to sacrifice everything so that the story could continue, without him being there. And surprise or not, you were playing out a section of his life that ended with his death; So when he died, that should have been all the story we should have seen. Making peace with his squadmates before that final assault should have been the last we ever saw of them, because we were playing through his eyes, moving toward the end of his life regardless of our decisions. Once his part in the story was over, we shouldn't have expected anything else to show up because that was the end of the story.

While few may agree with my point of view, I am pleased with the outcome of the game, it was no doubt difficult to decide just how much to show after his death, and what would be considered important. I will await the upcoming response to the fan raving and see what kind of closure the team offers us fans, but all the while knowing that I played Shepard's actions out to the fullest even to the very end, and in my eyes, he needs no closure. He united the galaxy, then helped everyone save it together and kept safe the ones he care most for. What more could you ask from a hero of that quality.

-Wesly

[xenu101]

Hey, if Bioware would just remake the entire game, I'll be happy. It'll be like the Director's Cut of Mass Effect 3.

Fix some of the awful dialog, drop the characters that make your teeth grind listening to them, and drop Kai Leng the Space Ninja. He just didn't fit in the Mass Effect universe, and was a really dumb boss. (He jumps around like an idiot, and his dinky sword can cut through Shepard's shields better than a high velocity bullet fired from a mass effect field rail gun? Come on...)

And we do have more than 3 buttons/keys on our keyboards and Xbox controllers. I'm sick of sticking to walls when I try to run from spawn hordes in multiplayer.

Ah heck, the whole endgame falls apart worse than a soup sandwich. How did the Reapers easily hijack the Citadel? We defeated Cerberus the first time they tried it, so how did the indoctrinated Illusive Man just show up and say: "Ya, I'm taking this massive space station for a cruise, and there isn't a damn thing you're gonna do about it C-Sec."?

Nevermind that Saren had to travel the length of the Milky Way Galaxy to find the Conduit on Ilos so he could take over the Citadel. If it was so easy then why didn't Saren just walk aboard with his Specter status and take over? ME3 threw up all over the entire plot of Mass Effect 1.

Modifié par xenu101, 31 mars 2012 - 07:14 .

[Jdude384]

 I'll start by saying that I always have stood behind Bioware and have been a loyal fan to one of my favorite game designing companies. Some people criticized Dragon Age:2. Personally, I found it still appealing in everything I expected from a Bioware game. The good story was there, the options, the personal connections, everything to make an extremely enjoyable and appealing RPG.

Mass Effect had those same things, all of them, and I was beyond hooked on it from the moment I started playing. But when I hit those last 10 mintues of gameplay, the very end, my jaw just dropped. And not in a good way. It was overwhelmingly disappointing, I frankly thought it was somehow a joke or there was more to it if I played through again but there -wasn't-. Anyone I talked to I suggested just stop playing before the end, never do the final battle to save themselves the same devastating let-down. It's been quite some time since I thought about it, though. But tonight I was, and I decided to look more into who else thought it wasn't satisfactory. 

I took the time to read over Ray M's (Can't think of how to spell all of his last name off the top of my head) post to the fans, and found only a glimmer of hope in it. Listening is fine, but if you don't act on it it means -nothing-. So I'd like to comment, and perhaps if he ever gets ahold of this statement he can read it and gain a new perspective on what he should consider while standing behind his team.

I can understand that the designer's are allowed artistic creativity. You design the world we all play in, write the stories and develop the characters. It's a reason why the game is appealing.

But here's the biggest one.

When the game starts you take the paintbrush and hand it to the players. That Shephard is -theirs-, you give them every choice decision and detail involved in that character. How he changes others, the results of his actions, everything is tailored to the painting the player has made. That you allow this draws in a great deal of interest and simple fun. That is, in my opinion, what made Mass Effect a title to be held in good standing.

But when you build all of this to a climax, to a pivotal point in the series, and then -take the brush back from the player-, how do you expect people to react? You take their masterpiece, their painting of Shephard, and burn in front of their faces. The entire story they've developed ends without warning or notice, without apology or consideration.

If you TRULY wanted to make ammends for this to your players, the reason Bioware even exists and got a 3rd installment of the series, then you should take the ending from when the fleet arrives in the Sol system and stop; scrap -everything- past that, and try again. Develop a new ending and give it away as an apology, and you can end of all of this frustration and anger directed towards you because of that. There's too many plotholes and let-downs involved in this current ending to let it stand. Every promise made prior to the game's release about the ending is, arguably, completely hypocritical.

Games only exist because players buy them. If you don't tailor to your audience then they won't keep coming back. We, as a community, can respect that you have your own artistic creativity.

I only ask that you respect ours as well.

Sincerely,
A Fan

[joker_jack]

This is what I'd like to know based on my play threw. During the scene of the crash landing on the jungle planet, The only beings left there are Joker, Javik, and Garrus. So how is it that scene with the old man & the grandchild is even happening? By all accounts from the destroy ending in this instance there should be no one left on the planet there capable of starting life over. None of these species by all accounts are like the asari.

[Shifty015]

CD Project red have in The Witcher 2 Enhanced Edition 12 ending cut-scenes and this and all DLC is completely free, but Mass Effect 3 have only 3 endings and difference is only in color of blast. And if will be some new DLC with new end I stake my life on that dlc will by paid

[darkelightnx01]

501 pages wow. Well Bioware you certainly have got people talking. So many fans discussing the ending for good and for bad mainly bad (I have read all those pages a lot long nights.) but what is apparent people love this game, this franchise. Except the end and heck even that can still be fixed. I have never seen such a response, it says so much about what you have created. I like so many others would like to see changes to the ending which was for me tarnished a near perfect game.

[Motherlander]

Lordambitious wrote...

We don't even get to stop the Reapers under our own steam. Instead, hologram kid *lets* us do it, practically as an act of charity. Any sense of control, agency, or accomplishment is gone..."

Yes, where is Shepard's definance in the final scenes. There isn't any. Shepard meekly does what the God-child tells him.

One of the characteristics that defined Shepard throughout the trilogy. The way that defiance was expressed was uniquly expressed in each individual Shepard; through acts of ruthlessness or compassion; through interaction with NPS; through Paragon and Renegade.

But in the ending there is no defiance at all. We are supposed to accept a different, weak. almost pathetic Shepard, played completely out of character. 

You talk about artistic integrity. But you lost all artistic integrity as soon as Shepard was forced to be a different person.

Frankly, it would have been better if you had a cliched ending, where the Catalyst captures Shepard's LI, and holding him/her hostage, and threatens to kill them if we press that button that will destroy the Reapers.

We didn't even get an option like that. We didn't get a chance to express our definance, and indeed express what Shepard really is as a person and a hero.

Instead Shepard is meekly told to accept one of three options
1) Paranio; (i.e. Control)
2) Depression; (i.e. destruction)
3) Surrender (Synthesis)

(Sorry, but that is how I see the three options).

Shepard then drops his/her most defining characteristic of defaince for the first time in the whole game and meekly obeys, letting his enemies decide everyone's fate. 

So please do not go on about artistic integrity. Because the story lost all integrity as soon as you took away Shepard's defining characteristi: Defiance.

Modifié par Motherlander, 31 mars 2012 - 08:25 .