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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#12701
Dakota Strider

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knection wrote...

I have heard on the game informer site that the editors that had beaten the game were responding to the retake mass effect movement. The editors were commenting that the retake mass effect movement were wanting a Care Bear Stare ending where The Normandy Crew hold hands and activate the crucible and take down the reapers or have all your crew one by one come up and punch a reaper in the face.... that made me kind of mad because they were blatantly ignoring why this ending is bad in the first place....space kid....normandy crew deserting....a galactic fleet stuck on earth...its not oh no shep dies it is so much more than that.


It is my opinion, that these game editors do not play these games for fun, but simply to write their reviews.  Therefore, they may not notice many of the different discrepencies that occur throughout the game, because they are looking for glitches that crash the game, critiquing the voice acting and cut scenes, and comparing the combat to all the other shooters and button-mashers on the market.  They do not allow themselves to become immerged into the game enough to notice flaws in roleplay and plot.  They do not care if the ending contradicts all the hundreds of game hours that have come prior in the series.  Heck, they have such tunnel vision, they do not even notice it contradicts what happened in ME3. 

Regarding Bioware, I share the opinion that they were forced to rush the ending.   I do not believe EA has ever been a good fit for Bioware as a partner.  They cater to those that only want action, not depth.  They have no sympathy for the rpg audience that Bioware established before they partnered up.  I would have thought that Bioware would be successful enough, to do things on their own, without the EA corporate bigwigs telling them what to do.  But that is part of the business side of the game, that most of us are not privy to.

And Bioware is perfectly capable of messing up endings, without the excuse of being rushed.  How many of you recall the first Neverwinter Nights, when the most central NPC in the game (Aribeth) was executed, not during the game, but in the epilogue, when the hero had no chance to even speak in her defense, let alone attempt to rescue if the player chose to.  The blowback that Bioware received for that snafu, caused them to bring her back in the 3rd episode to partner with the new hero in the afterlife (both denizens in some planes of hell).

Many of the flaws of the ME3 ending have been discussed at length, one flaw that I have not heard talked about much is the charge towards the beam of light and the Reaper destructo-ray.  For the whole game, you were encouraged to conduct your combat missions by using cover, and making tactical moves with your squad mates.  Then, when everything was on the line, Bioware decided that you were to ignore everything Shepard and the rest of the alliance army knew about combat, and make a frontal charge against one of the most powerful weapons in the known galaxy.   In the real world, most militaries stopped making full on charges against the enemy, across 100's of yards of open field, after World War 1.  The ray could only shoot in one direction at once.  All survivors at that point would have tried to stay under cover as long as possible, and encircle the beam, allowing for a maximum number of attackers to avoid the death ray, and arrive at the beam.  As soon as the death charge started, I knew that the ending was really going to be screwed.

For those that claim to have loved the ending, I am guessing that they have no idea about tactics, or game logic, and would be happy with whatever is put in front of them, if it was flashy enough to entertain them.  It is another reason that I wish Bioware and EA were not partners.  It brings two types of players together, that do not appreciate the same thing in games.  Afterall, it does not take much skill to write an ending to a sports game.  Once you have the game mechanics figured out, the endings write themselves.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 01 avril 2012 - 04:33 .


#12702
Dewitt667

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Lets do the time warp again: Mass Effect: The Remix

Bare with me. This started out as mental exercise at work brought appon by me going back to ME1.

Leave ME3's  present ending with chooses A and B as is per an indoctornation trap, but ending C slings Sheperd's mind back to the Relay jump at the begining of ME1 and modify the story with ME3's Sheperd shaping the final battle from the Eden Prime attack rather than playing catch-up and running against a tornado.

I'm sugesting this for reasons:

A: You already have most of the work done in ME1 and 2.

B: This would also allow new players to the Mass Effect franchise to be able to play the story from the begin just under different game machanices.

C: This will give time to find an ending that would make most of the fan base happy.


Speeking of game machanices, my opinion is that Sheperd's machanices need to be brought back in line with 1 and 2's. Say like drop the class specific granades or make them mod'able, return his healing back like it was in 2 now slow it down to make combat more entense but to have to use your medi-gel after each fight is a little much.

Now as to normal DLC for the normal ME3 playthrough would be more missions the effect the galaxy map like say: (make them feel like the battle at the end, from touch down up to the final charge)

Sheperd drops in on Palaven or a Turian research lab under heavy attack by reaper forces with Aralakh Company(80-225), since all you see is only a squad there has to be more of them, and Grunt replenishes his loses from the hardened suriving defenders.

#12703
ATLAS1192

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If you honestly thought this was how Mass Effect 3 should have ended, you are fools. We should eat you.

#12704
knection

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again i think it might be an april fools joke

#12705
trogwolf

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Now that I have played through twice, I think I can officially withdraw my objection to the ending.

On my first play through I expected a dialogue popup after speaking to the catalyst and when none came up as I walked forward, I inadvertantly crossed the threshold for the synthesis choice, and so thought I had not been given a choice.

On my second playthrough I realized that the choices were not on a dialogue pop-up, but to the left, right and straight ahead. Left for control the reapers, right for destroy all synthetics and the mass effect relays, straight ahead for synthesis, which also destroys the mass effect relays, I think.

In my first objection post, I objected only to not having the opportunity to choose. Now I realize that I simply overlooked the choices. I haven't replayed the end yet to see what the result of choosing control the reapers will be. I will have to do that tomorrow.

in choosing destroy all synthetics, the reapers are destroyed, the soldiers on earth cheer and the normandy crash lands on a planet or moon with an atmosphere and there are blue skies, and out steps Joker, Liara and the Prothean. (Add those genetics to the Asari race, holy moly.)

I can't remember what happened when I accidentally chose synthesis - I wasn't really paying such close attention, at first - too surprised. The normandy crash lands on a planet or moon with an atmosphere, where everything is tingly - not quite natural - and out steps Joker with EDI, and then I think it was probably Garrus and Tali.

It will be interesting to see what happens when I choose control the reapers.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that regarless of the choice, Shepard will die in some manner. It also shouldn't surprise anyone that Joker would be trying to outrun a wavefront of unknown radiation, expanding outward in a spherical burst from the crucible. He was probably pissing his pants in the process.

I am satisfied with the endings. I am amazed at the emotional reactions that so many people are having. I wonder how many of them made the same mistake I did, and then decided, in spite of loving everything else about the series, not to play again.

#12706
trogwolf

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As to favorite moment: I really felt bad when my renegade choices prevented Joker and EDI from hooking up, but if they had hooked up, I guess I never would have walked in on Joker and Garrus trading jokes in the cockpit. Those were great, and I didn't get to hear them on my first playthrough - Joker was too focused on EDI and flying the ship.

That confrontation with Wrex at the Citadel, just as I thought I was going to board the Normandy, was very well written.

#12707
knection

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trogwolf wrote...

Now that I have played through twice, I think I can officially withdraw my objection to the ending.

On my first play through I expected a dialogue popup after speaking to the catalyst and when none came up as I walked forward, I inadvertantly crossed the threshold for the synthesis choice, and so thought I had not been given a choice.

On my second playthrough I realized that the choices were not on a dialogue pop-up, but to the left, right and straight ahead. Left for control the reapers, right for destroy all synthetics and the mass effect relays, straight ahead for synthesis, which also destroys the mass effect relays, I think.

In my first objection post, I objected only to not having the opportunity to choose. Now I realize that I simply overlooked the choices. I haven't replayed the end yet to see what the result of choosing control the reapers will be. I will have to do that tomorrow.

in choosing destroy all synthetics, the reapers are destroyed, the soldiers on earth cheer and the normandy crash lands on a planet or moon with an atmosphere and there are blue skies, and out steps Joker, Liara and the Prothean. (Add those genetics to the Asari race, holy moly.)

I can't remember what happened when I accidentally chose synthesis - I wasn't really paying such close attention, at first - too surprised. The normandy crash lands on a planet or moon with an atmosphere, where everything is tingly - not quite natural - and out steps Joker with EDI, and then I think it was probably Garrus and Tali.

It will be interesting to see what happens when I choose control the reapers.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that regarless of the choice, Shepard will die in some manner. It also shouldn't surprise anyone that Joker would be trying to outrun a wavefront of unknown radiation, expanding outward in a spherical burst from the crucible. He was probably pissing his pants in the process.

I am satisfied with the endings. I am amazed at the emotional reactions that so many people are having. I wonder how many of them made the same mistake I did, and then decided, in spite of loving everything else about the series, not to play again.


he was running way sooner than the explosion happend.  Also how does it make sense that if you control the reapers you die....then you are not controlling the reapers...

#12708
JackLaVaporiera

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@trogwolf:

You sir, doesn't take in account here there aren't a lot of casual gamers speaking after a fast try on just one, but fan speaking after 2 or 3 careful playthrough and still upset with THE ending, if, a big IF we can call it that way...

#12709
Rising Solstice

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First of all, Reaper motivations explained:


Secondly: My issue with the ending wasn't that it was "bittersweet," or a "downer." I mean, I sort of expected Shepard to die, and probably stay dead this time around. What bothered me about it was largely was that the entire concept of player choices having consequences was abandoned at the eleventh hour. Most egregious, however, was The Kid telling Shepard to swallow some dogma and that there were only three possible choices, and at no point did Shepard get the option of telling him to sod off. That is not the character most of us have played for the past three games.

The ending was not necessarily "bad," it just belonged in a different game (or series) entirely.

#12710
trogwolf

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"I am the catalyst, this is my home. The Citadel is part of me." My first thoughts after finishing the game a few days ago was that this was the creator of the reapers. But on this second playthrough I realized that he says he controls them and refers to them and himself as "we". His reason for the Reapers and the harvesting is that, if it isn't done, synthetics will take over or something involving conflict between organics and synthetics will occur. So his "solution" to the problem is the cycle. I realized that he is just another entity like the reapers, or in fact one of them and their leader, and he doesn't know the answer either, he is just making an assumption based on his own experience, possibly millions of years ago. It makes sense that he ought to be able to see into Shepard's mind more easily than an Asari or a Prothean would be able to. Why wouldn't he choose a form for communicating with Shepard that was both familiar and non-threatening and the strongest impression that Shepard holds in his subconscious? I wonder why people call the image of the catalyst "starchild". He is as much a slave to his (self)programming as the Reapers and the Keepers are to their programming. At least he was able to acknowledge that, since someone finally managed to bring the crucible and the citadel together, it was time for a new solution - one chosen by the person who succeeded where all others had failed.

#12711
knection

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Rising Solstice wrote...

First of all, Reaper motivations explained:


Secondly: My issue with the ending wasn't that it was "bittersweet," or a "downer." I mean, I sort of expected Shepard to die, and probably stay dead this time around. What bothered me about it was largely was that the entire concept of player choices having consequences was abandoned at the eleventh hour. Most egregious, however, was The Kid telling Shepard to swallow some dogma and that there were only three possible choices, and at no point did Shepard get the option of telling him to sod off. That is not the character most of us have played for the past three games.

The ending was not necessarily "bad," it just belonged in a different game (or series) entirely.



Well said

#12712
trogwolf

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"he was running way sooner than the explosion happend. Also how does it make sense that if you control the reapers you die....then you are not controlling the reapers..." I guess I should have left the phrase, or cease to exist as we know it, in my comment. I did say that I haven't chosen the control the reapers ending yet. But I would expect that you would control them by being the new Catalyst.

#12713
knection

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trogwolf wrote...

"I am the catalyst, this is my home. The Citadel is part of me." My first thoughts after finishing the game a few days ago was that this was the creator of the reapers. But on this second playthrough I realized that he says he controls them and refers to them and himself as "we". His reason for the Reapers and the harvesting is that, if it isn't done, synthetics will take over or something involving conflict between organics and synthetics will occur. So his "solution" to the problem is the cycle. I realized that he is just another entity like the reapers, or in fact one of them and their leader, and he doesn't know the answer either, he is just making an assumption based on his own experience, possibly millions of years ago. It makes sense that he ought to be able to see into Shepard's mind more easily than an Asari or a Prothean would be able to. Why wouldn't he choose a form for communicating with Shepard that was both familiar and non-threatening and the strongest impression that Shepard holds in his subconscious? I wonder why people call the image of the catalyst "starchild". He is as much a slave to his (self)programming as the Reapers and the Keepers are to their programming. At least he was able to acknowledge that, since someone finally managed to bring the crucible and the citadel together, it was time for a new solution - one chosen by the person who succeeded where all others had failed.


Ok why would the space kid reveal just push this switch to kill us....this switch to control us.....or this switch to become us....would he come to one of those conclusions millions of years before this cycle

#12714
knection

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trogwolf wrote...

"he was running way sooner than the explosion happend. Also how does it make sense that if you control the reapers you die....then you are not controlling the reapers..." I guess I should have left the phrase, or cease to exist as we know it, in my comment. I did say that I haven't chosen the control the reapers ending yet. But I would expect that you would control them by being the new Catalyst.


If you listen to his "explanations" he mentions that you would die no matter what choice you make

#12715
FreshRevenge

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I want to start off by saying the game is Excellent from start to almost finish! I won't lie but the ending really makes you feel that you just flushed everything you did within three Awesome games down the drain!

The first time I beat the game and I reach the top of the citatel and was confronted with three choices that seem to spell doom for Galactic civilization no matter what you end up choosing! I was in disarray on really making a decision! Honestly I didn't want to choose any of the three choices given. Yet I was force to make a decision or else the crucible would be destroy and then I am greeted with the game over screen!

I won't sugar coat it but the ending was awful. It almost felt the last 10 minutes was the ending to another game not Mass Effect.

I hope BioWare listens to their fans and give us a real ending that makes every decision we made worth the journey! As far as the end goes now, that journey feels like a backyard step in the mud!

#12716
OneDrunkMonk

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Yeah, I don't think the issue was that we all wanted a completely "everyone lives, everyone wins" ending. Hell, we already lost Mordin and Miranda way before the final showdown. Thessia was basically in complete ruins (before Earth? Someone explain that one to me.) There was a lot of loss throughout the game. It's just that...It's like the ending was written by a completely other team of people at the last minute. There are many moments in the three Mass Effect games where gamers are asked to suspend logic and disbelief, the ending shouldn't have been one of them.

#12717
trogwolf

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there is a problem with the "rushed to finish" idea that I see in some posts. I was at E3 in June of 2009 when Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk were interviewed in the EA pavillion. They talked about and introduced trailers for Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect and Star Wars: The Old Republic. I think I still have the recording and the transcript that I made from it. It is hard for me to think that they didn't have a really good idea of how the trilogy would end well ahead of release date for the final chapter.

#12718
knection

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i think the only way the ending could not be broken if mass effect 3 was the only game in the franchise

#12719
knection

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trogwolf wrote...

there is a problem with the "rushed to finish" idea that I see in some posts. I was at E3 in June of 2009 when Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk were interviewed in the EA pavillion. They talked about and introduced trailers for Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect and Star Wars: The Old Republic. I think I still have the recording and the transcript that I made from it. It is hard for me to think that they didn't have a really good idea of how the trilogy would end well ahead of release date for the final chapter.


just because you have a drawing board does not mean that the best ideas got scraped for the most cost efficient ones like lets change the color of the explosion....noone will notice.

#12720
trogwolf

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FreshRevenge wrote...

I want to start off by saying the game is Excellent from start to almost finish! I won't lie but the ending really makes you feel that you just flushed everything you did within three Awesome games down the drain!


Have you ever done anything that you invested two years or more of your life into that lead to a final action that didn't leave you feeling that way once you had taken that final action?   I think your comment speaks more to how well the entire game series was made than it does to how badly the ending was crafted. 

#12721
Dewitt667

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It isn't a Joke.

A lot of the concept comes from the fact that the only thing the concil get out of soverigns remains is the thanix cannon and the only time you see it is when the reaper are using theirs and in ME2. After the attack the Citadel in ME1 its space should have been locked down.

Cerberus has more reaper tech than the council races and it has less resources.

There are plot holes so big in the game that the only way to really have a acceptable ending is to pull a trump card out of the left quadrent and no the crucible is not it. As your choose when you first hear about it is, "Sounds to good to be true."

The only way i can see an ending the doesn't envolve the reapers continuing the cycle ,with what has been presented at this point  is to start the prep work at the begining with only three years,

That bring up another issue is that the dialogue and the flow of time both in game and between games. If they can build the crucible that quick then they could build a fleet large enough to liberate earth and most of the council world with ease.

The other thing is that Sheperd no matter how you play him would not let cerberus have sole access to the debtis field beyond the omega-4 relay. If anything Omega would be hosting a contingent of council forces for a fee. Omega Rule #1.

You may not agree with these plot issues but they are issues non the same.

#12722
JDMiller5150

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TOO FEW PEOPLE ON THIS PETITION!

Help retake ME3 people!

We each invested HUNDREDS OF HOURS! We each crafted our own, unique, and wonderful story. Let your story be justified in an equally awesome conclusion!

Here's the link below! Thanks for reading, my fellow Shepards! :)

http://www.change.or...ake-mass-effect

#12723
jeweledleah

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trogwolf wrote...

FreshRevenge wrote...

I want to start off by saying the game is Excellent from start to almost finish! I won't lie but the ending really makes you feel that you just flushed everything you did within three Awesome games down the drain!


Have you ever done anything that you invested two years or more of your life into that lead to a final action that didn't leave you feeling that way once you had taken that final action?   I think your comment speaks more to how well the entire game series was made than it does to how badly the ending was crafted. 


generaly, when I invest years of my life into something and finaly put finishing touches on it?  I feel an immense sence of satisfaction and accomplishment.. not this hollow feeling of confused depression.

as for them having a plan?  they did.  remember all the dark energy foreshadowing done in ME2? they decided to change from the original plan in the very last game, so they had to scramble to figure out what the heck to go with.  not only that, they admited that they havent concidered implications of a lot of their design decisions.  like consequences of allowing players to kill off anyone and everyone in suicide mission, for one. I'm sure that changing multiple teammembers, including several writers, one of them being lead writers from ME1 and parts of ME2 - didn't help any.

the fact that the ending raises more questions then it asks - is not a good thing.  the fact that it completely deviates from the original Hard sci-fi feel of the game - is not a good thing (and in retrospect, my warning bells started ringing when I first saw that ridiculous beam leading up to the citadel - since when does Mass Effect use teleportation technology??)

and I wish people would stop with "Shepard must die, qhy would you expect Shepard to live.."  becasue its a heroic video game and becasue in bioware games, hero always had an option to survive and walk off into the sunset.. no matter how dire the threat they faced was.

#12724
improperdancing

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At the end of the day, I think we can all agree that BioWare's greatest failing in Mass Effect 3 was not making Garrus a gay relationship option. I mean, banging blue chicks is nice and all, but Garrus gets me.

#12725
FreshRevenge

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jeweledleah wrote...

trogwolf wrote...

FreshRevenge wrote...

I want to start off by saying the game is Excellent from start to almost finish! I won't lie but the ending really makes you feel that you just flushed everything you did within three Awesome games down the drain!



Have you ever done anything that you invested two years or more of your life into that lead to a final action that didn't leave you feeling that way once you had taken that final action?   I think your comment speaks more to how well the entire game series was made than it does to how badly the ending was crafted. 


generaly, when I invest years of my life into something and finaly put finishing touches on it?  I feel an immense sence of satisfaction and accomplishment.. not this hollow feeling of confused depression.

as for them having a plan?  they did.  remember all the dark energy foreshadowing done in ME2? they decided to change from the original plan in the very last game, so they had to scramble to figure out what the heck to go with.  not only that, they admited that they havent concidered implications of a lot of their design decisions.  like consequences of allowing players to kill off anyone and everyone in suicide mission, for one. I'm sure that changing multiple teammembers, including several writers, one of them being lead writers from ME1 and parts of ME2 - didn't help any.

the fact that the ending raises more questions then it asks - is not a good thing.  the fact that it completely deviates from the original Hard sci-fi feel of the game - is not a good thing (and in retrospect, my warning bells started ringing when I first saw that ridiculous beam leading up to the citadel - since when does Mass Effect use teleportation technology??)

and I wish people would stop with "Shepard must die, qhy would you expect Shepard to live.."  becasue its a heroic video game and becasue in bioware games, hero always had an option to survive and walk off into the sunset.. no matter how dire the threat they faced was.


I totally loved the game up until the ending. At the moment with the current ending, I don't feel that I will be playing it in years to come.

I know the scale that Mass Effect has and I know that gamers want to feel like they are victorious after all they have done. As it stands I feel less than victorious. I mean I lost all of the relationships that I spent years on and it does leave a hollow feeling. Who wants to play a game that makes you depress at the end of the game?

I mean I enjoy cliffhangers that make you crave for more. The ending of Mass Effect 3 doesn't do that! So hopefully they will announce something that gives us a better way to end a Trilogy!

Also I don't see why Shepard has to die to make a good ending? I mean Shepard all ready die once so why repeat it!

Modifié par FreshRevenge, 01 avril 2012 - 06:38 .