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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#12851
Lordambitious

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Thanatos144 wrote...

CesarSan wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

CesarSan wrote...

Another thing about the ending is that it goes all mystical mumbo-jumbo and space magical. This coming from an (almost) hard sci-fi series based on physical reality is a slap in the face.

The ending could as well be Buddha riding a space unicorn destroying the Reapers with the power of love and Nyan-cat's help.

um......You have a race of blue women who mate out of their gentic genome and only produce woman ands you have people being able to magically creat balckholes with their mind and you find a AI mystical?


its not magic.  its explained in the codex, as well as by Liara in a very first game.  in detail.  aka - hard sci-fi.

I see .... so if they explain it in the codex will it stop being mystical????????????????????

The eezo is the one fictional element that makes FTL and biotics possible. That's why I said "almost" hard sci-fi. It was there since day one.

The Asari genetics is like the movie Alien where the thing can add parts of the DNA from other species to its own. Bacteria do it all the time. The fictional stretch is a multicellular species doing the same.

But the RGB energy wave came from nowhere.

It is still far fetched and fantasy. Nothing wrong with it. But to be surprised they use Fiction in a fiction story seems a bit bizzar


*Bizarre

And it's quite different to use "fiction in a fiction story" than it tis to drop every established rule about the in-story universe for the sake of a cool looking light show, and then to drop nearly every story element during the ending.

#12852
garytwine

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Thanatos144 wrote...

"I dont really care that you dont like th ending.....i just care that peiople use the false premis that it doesnt fit or they were lied to".



Lol, dude, how can it be a false premise? The fact 'it doesn't fit' is opinion. Somebody elses opinion. In your opinion it fits. In mine and a lot of other people's it doesn't fit.

The whole point of differing opinions is that they differ. Just because someone doesn't believe the same thing as you doesn't mean they are wrong.

Modifié par garytwine, 01 avril 2012 - 08:06 .


#12853
luci90

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jeweledleah wrote...


/rubs temples... its like trying to explain calculus to someone who barely has understanding of basic arithmetic.

why do I even try.

oh right. in hopes that developers might actually poke their heads in there, especially codex writers and go.. hmm, we really do need to address those points.


Not quite.

I don't understand calc, but at least I'd try to understand what is being explained.

I don't really see that happening here.

Modifié par luci90, 01 avril 2012 - 08:11 .


#12854
Archonsg

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Synthesis and why it's wrong.

Anyone else thought about how Synthesis even if you accept the"space magic" involved for this to happen, would actually stop a war between organics and synthetics? Because, if you really think about it, all synthesis does is make everyone the "same" racially.

And we know just how much at peace, we the Human Race have been.

Unless of course every single being in the galaxy have their identity, believes, prejudices and individuality wiped.
Seriously do not think the krogans and salarians will sit at a campfire singing kumbaya just because they could now interface with each other.

#12855
trogwolf

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jeweledleah wrote...

@ Ceasar - up untill the last half an hour or so Mass Effect WAS the epitomy of hard sci-fi - reading codex is pretty amazing, concidering how much thought was put into explaining exactly how technology works. heck, ME2 conversation you can overhear, about Sir Isaac Newton alone was enough to nudge it into a hard sci-fi territory.  it really started to go downhill with that beam, becasue up untill that point, teleportation technology didn't exist in ME universe, moreover how that beam works - is never explained.  and it only got worse :/


Mass Effect Relays are teleportation technology.  Hello, McFly?  I wondered if anyone would complain about this.  The last push to the beam is just like what we did on Ilos. It is nothing more than a mass effect transmission, just like the one on Ilos to the Citadel. Only it drops you into a Keeper maintenance area that is probably a circular chamber which accesses the center, if you happen to still be alive.

#12856
Thanatos144

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Lets face it you are all mad cause this ends the universe as you know it.

#12857
luci90

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Thanatos144 wrote...

Lets face it you are all mad cause this ends the universe as you know it.

Well that was a cleverly disguised "UMAD".

Not clever enough, though.

You are beginning to slip up.

#12858
Thanatos144

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luci90 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Lets face it you are all mad cause this ends the universe as you know it.

Well that was a cleverly disguised "UMAD".

Not clever enough, though.

You are beginning to slip up.

A what?

#12859
Achossa

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I feel that the ending fits the plot just fine, if Shepard opts for the destruction of the Reapers.
This is where I feel you got deadline/publisher pressured or god forbid lazy or sloppy.

When checking out other variations of outcome and lets disregard the finer things depending on war assets and readiness, my decision to destroy the Reapers at the cost of destroying the Citadel and the relays with their star systems and every one in them and the Geth who are now helping Quarians and EDI and all other synthetics to preserve organic life has greatly diminished in value.
Because whatever I choose the relays and the Citadel are destroyed which pretty much destroys everything afore mentioned anyway so every outcome is the same.

Shepard's breath, Normandy and Joker on the planet with members who were with me, these questions have been asked already enough times.

But seeing how great the trailers were and how much effort and money those must have cost it's rather peculiar to have such a poor ending with so little content. I would believe that isn't how anybody imagined (one of) the greatest SF saga about an exceptional hero and an awe inspiring universe would end. So poorly with such little content.

We have poured are hearts in the commander and fell in love with the universe and character of Mass Effect and we didn't have a chance to say our proper goodbyes. I'm 28 years old and I feel genuine sadness for not knowing what has actually happened to my commander Shepard and my squad mates.

BioWare you gave us so much, such an emotional and excellent adventure and at the very end where you should have bought us for life you instead left us with bread crumbs. So poor, so sad.

#12860
jeweledleah

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trogwolf wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Ceasar - up untill the last half an hour or so Mass Effect WAS the epitomy of hard sci-fi - reading codex is pretty amazing, concidering how much thought was put into explaining exactly how technology works. heck, ME2 conversation you can overhear, about Sir Isaac Newton alone was enough to nudge it into a hard sci-fi territory.  it really started to go downhill with that beam, becasue up untill that point, teleportation technology didn't exist in ME universe, moreover how that beam works - is never explained.  and it only got worse :/


Mass Effect Relays are teleportation technology.  Hello, McFly?  I wondered if anyone would complain about this.  The last push to the beam is just like what we did on Ilos. It is nothing more than a mass effect transmission, just like the one on Ilos to the Citadel. Only it drops you into a Keeper maintenance area that is probably a circular chamber which accesses the center, if you happen to still be alive.


not... quite.
masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Relay

#12861
Lordambitious

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CesarSan wrote...

Dread Boy wrote...

My problem is not just with the endings but with the entire final mission. When was the citadel attacked and moved? Does this mean that Kelly, Conrad, the council and everyone else we knew on the citadel is dead?
Also when the fleets are checking in it would've been awesome to have mini scenes for the batarians, elcor, hanar and drell, salarians , krogan (yes i know they don't have ships but you know just them saying we're here) and you know the other species you recruited as war assets.

Also for the final mission even if you had rediculous EMS (I had well over 7000) all mission you're being told how heavily your guys are losing. While I get that this is to show that the crucible is the only hope COME ON! In ME2 all game you were told how you were gonna lose people in the suicide mission, but if you played the game well you didn't lose anyone and taking out the base felt AWESOME. In the last mission if you have a high EMS then A) you should see all the different war assets (I'm not as pedantic to demand every single one be individually mentioned) but you know again all the separate species, and that your army is actually holding it's own (like it actually states in the war asset computer) and not getting wholesale slaughtered. Also in the last mission you should fight alongside or at least see your old surviving companions fight in the last battle. Also ALL the old companiona should have proper goodbyes (like your squad do) because we love ALL the companions in the series not just those that made it into the ME3 squad.

And my problems with the VERY end is pretty much the same as everyone elses doesn't seem to fit the tone of the series, doesn't really make sense, too depressing even if you played the game perfectly, and too vague to be the absolute last word in shepard's saga.

I would also like to say that the only reason i'm complaining is because I love these games so much they are some of the best narratives you'll ever see, they've made me actually cry many, many times and i would just like to thank Bioware for what an amazing job they've done on this series and hope that they remember that despite all the criticism that's going their way because of the endings that we're only doing this because of how much we love their work.

I feel like that too. There were no Geth ships in the cinematics. No Elcor troops, no volus dreadnought, no mercenaries, no nothing. Heck if I was a professional animator I guess I could make five additional minutes of movies in one day, the models were already made anyway. Bioware simply didn't care.

Also if we played everything right there should be another option, as you say it did in ME2. Now we have to accept some neon kid's impositions?


But the neon kid was the literal Deus Ex Machina! he would know! /Sarcasm

But seriously, I was wondering the same thing the second the fleet jumped through the relay.

#12862
Silvair

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You know it's a bad ending when things would have been better off letting the bad guys win.

#12863
StillOverrated

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Thanatos144 wrote...

FreshRevenge wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

ragnorok87 wrote...

you realize that 99.9 percent of the ppl in support of the ending are paid to to support it right.....


nyah, some people really do genuinely like the endings.  some can even explain on emotional level exactly what makes those endings work for them. they just cannot really explain how those endings actualy fit wih the rest of the games.  they cannot explain the science behind them, and they are just not bothered by narative inconsistencies.

which is fine, as long as they don't the proceed to tell that everyone who doesn't think like them is a spoiled brat, a whiner, just not smart enough to get it, etc etc.


This is what I say to the people who enjoyed the ending, don't download the content that makes the ending better!

Why cant we enjoy more content????????? That seems stupid to me. thats like saying here is five bucks everyone else gets ten but since you like five bucks you cant have ten.

No. No, it's not. It's more like saying "There's some strawberries over there. You don't have to eat them. You don't like strawberries, but some other people do so let them have the damn strawberries."

#12864
9Enrico0

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 Bioware..  this could be a final   http://i1160.photobu...hoodiegypsy.jpg  

:D

#12865
garytwine

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Thanatos144 wrote...

Lets face it you are all mad cause this ends the universe as you know it.


Nope. If you read the codex in Mass Effect 1 it states that "There are many dormant primary relays whose corresponding twins have not yet been located. These are left inactive until their partner is charted, as established civilisations are unwilling to blindly open a passage that might connect them to a hostile species".

If a relay was inactive and not linked to others in the network its possible it was never destroyed. So, it may not mean the end of the relay network and the end of the galactic community and therefore the "end of the universe". It's already been established that the citadel could be moved so with a little effort so could a Mass Relay which is a lot smaller than the Citadel.

We just don't like the ending because it makes no sense and a ton of other reasons as stated thousands of times before :-)

#12866
Archonsg

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garytwine wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Lets face it you are all mad cause this ends the universe as you know it.


Nope. If you read the codex in Mass Effect 1 it states that "There are many dormant primary relays whose corresponding twins have not yet been located. These are left inactive until their partner is charted, as established civilisations are unwilling to blindly open a passage that might connect them to a hostile species".

If a relay was inactive and not linked to others in the network its possible it was never destroyed. So, it may not mean the end of the relay network and the end of the galactic community and therefore the "end of the universe". It's already been established that the citadel could be moved so with a little effort so could a Mass Relay which is a lot smaller than the Citadel.

We just don't like the ending because it makes no sense and a ton of other reasons as stated thousands of times before :-)



So, what you are saying, is that, the reapers and the AI who controls them, having built and placed the Mass Relays (or so claimed Sovereign) have no idea where these Relays are, nor way to "switch on" these "inactive" Relays?

#12867
gnfrwar

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We know the truth!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qvrpnx42UM&context=C4779052ADvjVQa1PpcFNpywosdbziqgAf0QRgr9oNk-_wAO5idgI=

Modifié par gnfrwar, 01 avril 2012 - 08:48 .


#12868
EvilMind

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There were many great moments, but I was shocked by the endings and Tali's photo.

And I wish we could somehow save Mordin and Legion, two greatest characters

#12869
dios.mio

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As gnfrwar mentions, the Indoctrination theory fits in perfectly... If it's correct - we got an ending for Mass Effect 3, but not the Mass Effect series...

On one side I'm happy, on other I hate being milked for cash :S

Also interesting article: http://uninhibitedan.../mind-holy-fuck

Modifié par dios.mio, 01 avril 2012 - 08:52 .


#12870
eddywatson

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the ending was just a dream right?

#12871
garytwine

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Archonsg wrote...

garytwine wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Lets face it you are all mad cause this ends the universe as you know it.


Nope. If you read the codex in Mass Effect 1 it states that "There are many dormant primary relays whose corresponding twins have not yet been located. These are left inactive until their partner is charted, as established civilisations are unwilling to blindly open a passage that might connect them to a hostile species".

If a relay was inactive and not linked to others in the network its possible it was never destroyed. So, it may not mean the end of the relay network and the end of the galactic community and therefore the "end of the universe". It's already been established that the citadel could be moved so with a little effort so could a Mass Relay which is a lot smaller than the Citadel.

We just don't like the ending because it makes no sense and a ton of other reasons as stated thousands of times before :-)



So, what you are saying, is that, the reapers and the AI who controls them, having built and placed the Mass Relays (or so claimed Sovereign) have no idea where these Relays are, nor way to "switch on" these "inactive" Relays?


Well, according to Mass Effect 1, the Reapers needed the Keeper's to activate the inactive Relay which sat at the Presidium in the Citadel. So, that would indicate that the same applies for all of the other Relays.

Unless Godchild waved his holographic space magic Chupa Chup and made all of the inactive ones suddenly activate  - which I didn't see in the ending and is contrary to Mass Effect 1 (which would be yet another plot hole).

#12872
EvilMind

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dios.mio wrote...

As gnfrwar mentions, the Indoctrination theory fits in perfectly... If it's correct - we got an ending for Mass Effect 3, but not the Mass Effect series...

On one side I'm happy, on other I hate being milked for cash :S

Also interesting article: http://uninhibitedan.../mind-holy-fuck


Indoctrination theory fits in perfectly? ROFLMAO

Ok, my theory is that Shepard this whole time was in coma after beacon explosion on Eden Prime in ME1. All events after that moment were just Shepards dream. Wow, it fits in perfectly...

There are alot of great posts showing how logically flawed ind. theory is, I'd link some if I wasn't too lazy...

Modifié par EvilMind, 01 avril 2012 - 08:59 .


#12873
dios.mio

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EvilMind wrote...

dios.mio wrote...

As gnfrwar mentions, the Indoctrination theory fits in perfectly... If it's correct - we got an ending for Mass Effect 3, but not the Mass Effect series...

On one side I'm happy, on other I hate being milked for cash :S

Also interesting article: http://uninhibitedan.../mind-holy-fuck


Indoctrination theory fits in perfectly? ROFLMAO

Ok, my theory is that Shepard this whole time was in coma after beacon explosion on Eden Prime in ME1. All events from that moment were just Shepards dream. Wow, it fits in perfectly! 


Well, would be nice of you to mention which part/s of it you think are unreasonable and completely incorrect with such a response... I was wondering almost the whole game what was the point of those unskippable dreams...

#12874
ErikModi

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So, just beat the game this morning, and the ending. . . meh.

I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it.  I'll break it down:

Pros:
Shepard's heroic sacrifice.  This I have no problem with, and was how I strongly suspected the story would end (though looking at the strategy guide, there are apparently ways for Sheppard to survive.  Have to try that.)
The Choices.  Three options, each with their own pros and cons.  Each one seemingly equally bad or good, and ultimately coming down to what do you value most?  I really liked that, but within this also lies my greatest complaint (coming up in cons.)
Normandy.  It was cool seeing her "final flight," and the crash-landed survivors, though this also feeds into two of my cons.
The after-credits.  The little tagline at the end, showing humans. . . who knows how far in the future, revering "The Shepard" as in the same ranks as Thor, Hercules, Odysseus, and Wyatt Earp.  I liked that.  And the "one more story" line at the end. . . leaves things a little open.

Cons:
Destruction of the Mass Relays.  Possibly my biggest complaint.  I chose the option I did (controlling the Reapers) because I didn't want to genocide the Geth (I'd worked SO HARD at finally brokering peace between them and the Quarians, looking forward to Geth becoming productive members of galactic society in the post-Shepard world), and because I didn't want to essentially reboot the galaxy from scratch (which seemed to be what the "synergy" option would do. . . eliminate all orangic and synthetic life to make way for. . . natural cyborgs?)  It also seemed to be telling me that Synergy would destroy the Mass Relays. . . which the codex told me would destroy any solar system with a Mass Relay in it.  Thus, destroying Mass Relays is the WORST of all possible options:  Dozens, hundreds, maybe even THOUSANDS of inhabited star systems are obliterated, never to bear life again, including Earth, which I'd spent the entire game fighting to protect.  Anyone who survives this is cut off from any hope of galactic civilization, since the Mass Relays are all that allow true travel through the galaxy.  And any races who come up after will find it difficult-to-impossible to really claim the stars, since the Mass Relays won't be waiting for them when they reach the bounds of their solar systems.  This, to me, is the BIGGEST downer of the ending. . . in trying to break this cycle, I've obliterated any chance at true galactic harmony and co-operation. . . the goal my Shepard has been working for ever since the begining of ME2 (PS3 owner, here.)  I was greatly looking forward to helping usher in a new era of peace and understanding with all species. . . only to have that hope ripped away by the destruction of the Relay network.  Honestly, if the Relays remained intact, the ending would be twice as enjoyable, even if no other denoument occured.
Normandy crew.  I had Liara with me (my sweetie!) most of the time, including the last mission.  When the Reaper beam hits, I assumed she and Ashley (my other squadmate) were killed alongside everyone else, though I hoped they'd gotten clear somehow.  Suddenly, as the Normandy crashes, Liara is stepping out the hatch with Joker.  How did she get back on the ship?  If the signal that called off the Reapers also destroyed the Relay network, and this destruction is what caused the Normandy to crash, how did Joker have time to pick up my squadmates while there was still pitch battle with the Reapers around the Beam?  I sense a disturbance in the plot.
Lack of denoument.  In storytelling, the five-part story structure is Introduction, Rising Action, Complication, Climax, Denoument.  A lot of modern media, especially the one-hour TV show, tend to forget about Denoument, instead pusing the climax as close as they can to the end of the episode and MAYBE giving thirty seconds of "wrap-up" at the end.  I HATE that.  I want to see the conclusion, the wrap-up, the tying up of loose ends.  I wanted to see how Liara and Miranda delt with my heroic sacrifice, what happened to Earth, Thessia, and Palaven, how the Krogan and Geth integrated into galactic society, how the Quarians resetteled their homeworld. . . I would have been delirously happy with a full hour of nothing but cinematic covering the next several years of story.  I understand wanting to leave something for DLC, but COME ON!  Oh, wait, there's really no wrap-up possible, because destroying the Mass Relays obliterates a huge percentage of all life in the galaxy, and renders any kind of galactic civilization impossible, defeating the whole purpose of. . . well, anything Shepard ever did.

Thoughts on Improvement:
I really like the story as told, though feel a few minor tweaks can both preserve the writer's vision and make a more conclusive ending.

First, either don't destroy the Mass Relays, or allow them to be reconstructed relatively quickly.  I did all this to save galactic civilization, I don't want to see it wiped out.  And don't have the Mass Relay explosions wipe out all life.  Maybe some kind of Reaper shield or Citadel applied phlebotinum minimizes the explosions.  Bottom line, don't let the amazing world you created end with this game.

Denoument.  Do something to give us more insight into what the galaxy is like post-Reaper.  As it is, it feels like the story has been left with a big "The End. . . OR IS IT?" sign.  Either definitively end the series and create a satisfying and complete wrap up, or leave it open to future exploration and give us some idea of what to expect from future Mass Effect installements, be they games, books, comics, whatever.  Ultimately, that's the biggest complaint with the ending, is that it feels like, on one hand, it's trying to definitively wrap up and end the Mass Effect franchise for good, while on the other, like it's trying to leave the door open to maybe possibly someday if we feel like it milk it for more money.

Modifié par ErikModi, 01 avril 2012 - 10:09 .


#12875
pipemaster9000

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How did Anderson enter the beam "behind" you? I didn't see him anywhere near me prior to entry.

There is only 1 path to the control room after wards. How did he get there and before me?

I shot Anderson, he merely held his hand out. So why am I now bleeding out from the same spot that I shot him?

Was an unstoppable force of Reaper-destruction, yet I melted like butter in front of the Reaper Master? Shepard simply trusted the A.I. on spot and submitted to one of his 3 "solutions?"

Okay, got the "perfect ending." Shepard breathes... where? Given his location on the Citadel he would have been immediately spaced following the Citadel breaking apart.

I know a lot of people do not want nor like the idea of Indoctrination Theory, but given the codex's and the final events... It's impossible to throw it out.

Why wouldn't Harbinger just finish the job? Easy. Shepard united the Galaxy, making him a prime military leader. Individuals of that scope are desired picks for Indoctrination. This is also referenced in the Codex's. The Control option is Paragon because the Reapers see themselves as Order. Destroy is red because they see existence without their "order," as chaos. Synthesis, to me, is irrelevant. Human + Reaper = Husk. Quarians are the only unknowns, we all know what the other races become. I do feel that the A, B, and C ending is all in Shepard's head. The Normandy crashing down and survivors exiting the craft that were clearly in London with you prior to the last push: Shepard's hope in the form of a dream.

I'm not gonna argue about marketing, If I have to pay for DLC to get closure, I will. I had heard that indoctrination was cast out at the last second by Bioware, if so, Then why leave all the puzzle pieces in place? The current endings leave little room for DLC occurring AFTER those events. However, should IT be true it would allow tons of DLC to take place after those final events.

This post is in support of IT but it also is in support of Bioware seeing the game how I and many others see it. A finished product always looks different to the consumer and the creator.


It would be nice for Bioware to comment on IT.