23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Omnike]

trogwolf wrote...

How many "intended" endings do you suppose they were considering throughout the three or more years that they have been creating this game? Comments like this: "You know they changed the ending from the original inended ending... right?" strike me as naive.

Which leads me to understand that you haven't been reading into this. Drew Karpyshyn came out and described what they had originally intended the end of the trilogy to come to. It was all supposed to surround dark energy.

http://www.strategyi...ffect-3-endings 

There's an article describing him talking about it. 

[Alrendar]

Tojax wrote...

There's actually a question I wanted to ask the people who enjoyed the ME3 ending:
Why did you like it?
I'm not asking this to poke fun at anyone. I'm just curious to see how anyone managed to find logic and/or closure in it. I've already heard a million and one reasons stating why the ending was bad, so now I would genuinely like to hear the other side of the conflict. How does anything past the Harbinger beam explosion make sense? How does it fit the lore of ME? Why one should see the final sequence as satisfactory?
I'd be grateful for any reasonably argued answers.

I wouldn't say the ending was bad - I honestly am in the camp of "don't know how I feel about it".

True it isn't like the "good" endings that we are all treated to in video games. The hero didn't live to save the girl, the 'bad guys' kinda won and I don't get ANY sort of closure at all, but I can respect the way that the designers want to end this journey. 

It may be sad and incredibly soul-crushing, as a lot of the community puts it, but its the reality of it. For me, the Reapers have been doing this for millenia on end. Only the human race has ever been up to fighting them thus far, and Shepard has been the only individual from a species to be successful in contacting the reapers (as we know of). 

But then, this begs the question, what the hell happened?

What happened to my squadmates who were in the tank? Were they dead? It doesn't seem so because Tali (My LI) was in my squad and then she was on the normandy. 

Following that, why was normandy on another planet? Did it escape from Earth in time to access a mass relay before I've destroyed it? Wouldn't be likely since they should be fighting the reapers with the rest of the fleet. 

So as you can see, with all the gaping plot holes, I feel the need to raise my hands up and go "THAT"S FRIGGEN IT?!?" Even though again, I concur that its an ending. 

Frankly after seeing all three endings, working my butt off for the whole series (who remembers the mako and scanning damn planets?), I really want to believe the indoctrination theory. 

Since that means all I've done to preserve the galaxy as I've known it hasn't gone to waste. 

[devwild]

At this point, this is both my theory to the meaning of the ending and my feedback on what's messy with the ending:

social.bioware.com/forums/forum/1/topic/355/index/10889490/

[slienthunter5]

I LOVE MASS EFFECT 3!
YEA just like most people. I need me and lover to live at end for happy ending.

[AwefulShot]

slienthunter5 wrote...

I LOVE MASS EFFECT 3!
YEA just like most people. I need me and lover to live at end for happy ending.

See I would be happy with a funeral with video blip-verts as tributes.  Perhaps having the bits where your choices actually made a difference.  Then when I play again the tributes will be different.

I believe Shep was doomed to die the day he touched the Prothean device in ME1.

[jeweledleah]

AwefulShot wrote...

slienthunter5 wrote...

I LOVE MASS EFFECT 3!
YEA just like most people. I need me and lover to live at end for happy ending.

See I would be happy with a funeral with video blip-verts as tributes.  Perhaps having the bits where your choices actually made a difference.  Then when I play again the tributes will be different.

I believe Shep was doomed to die the day he touched the Prothean device in ME1.

we're all doomed to die eventualy.  doesn't mean we have to die before we get to live our lives.

and Shepard?  Shepard is a hero in a world where you don't have Ellysium fileds or Valhalla to go to.  see, that's the funny thing about old heroic stories.  they all have happy endings.  its just that people at the time beleived that life, real life didn't start until after you died.  and that's why heroes died.  so that they could finaly shed their mortal skins and live happily ever after for eternity, in their version of haven.

but in sci-fi?  there aint no "haven".  so hero has to win, here in our mortal world.

doomed to die is uch an unheroic concept... 

Modifié par jeweledleah, 02 avril 2012 - 01:09 .

[Menagra]

My favorite moment was when Bioware announced the coming ending DLC -- it gave me hope. However I was disappointed by Ray Muzyka saying that the fans have been "hurtful" for not agreeing with the high critical acclaim.

Biowware, please don't listen to the critics when making the ending DLC. Please listen to your fans. The critics all have an agenda, and at times they are very different. Most have the agenda to get their reviews read, others have certain ideals they're pressuring on the community. A select few believe themselves to be the far superior opinion and that all must agree with them. Whatever their agenda, it's rarely fully beneficial to Bioware unless they decide to give you a good review along the way. Even when they give you a good review, rarely does it seem they care about your future as a creative title. Right not reviewers calling gamers "entitled" don't care about your future business because they are just pushing more customers away from you. This agenda clearly doesn't have Bioware in mind.

Your fans only have one agenda: to enjoy your games. The benefit of that agenda is money in your pocket, loyal customers and a passionate following. Fans so passionate about your games they make and watch 40 minute commentary youtube videos, or write 1000 word fan fictions, or spend hours drawing fan art -- all the while making no money and doing it solely for the passion of your games.

Please listen to those people, not the critics. Your a group of amazing creative people, please don't make us lose faith in you.

[Alrendar]

infraredman wrote...

My favorite moment was when Bioware announced the coming ending DLC -- it gave me hope. However I was disappointed by Ray Muzyka saying that the fans have been "hurtful" for not agreeing with the high critical acclaim.

Biowware, please don't listen to the critics when making the ending DLC. Please listen to your fans. The critics all have an agenda, and at times they are very different. Most have the agenda to get their reviews read, others have certain ideals they're pressuring on the community. A select few believe themselves to be the far superior opinion and that all must agree with them. Whatever their agenda, it's rarely fully beneficial to Bioware unless they decide to give you a good review along the way. Even when they give you a good review, rarely does it seem they care about your future as a creative title. Right not reviewers calling gamers "entitled" don't care about your future business because they are just pushing more customers away from you. This agenda clearly doesn't have Bioware in mind.

Your fans only have one agenda: to enjoy your games. The benefit of that agenda is money in your pocket, loyal customers and a passionate following. Fans so passionate about your games they make and watch 40 minute commentary youtube videos, or write 1000 word fan fictions, or spend hours drawing fan art -- all the while making no money and doing it solely for the passion of your games.

Please listen to those people, not the critics. Your a group of amazing creative people, please don't make us lose faith in you.

Completely Agree! Thumbs up! 

[Kain82]

infraredman wrote...

My favorite moment was when Bioware announced the coming ending DLC -- it gave me hope. However I was disappointed by Ray Muzyka saying that the fans have been "hurtful" for not agreeing with the high critical acclaim. 

Biowware, please don't listen to the critics when making the ending DLC. Please listen to your fans. The critics all have an agenda, and at times they are very different. Most have the agenda to get their reviews read, others have certain ideals they're pressuring on the community. A select few believe themselves to be the far superior opinion and that all must agree with them. Whatever their agenda, it's rarely fully beneficial to Bioware unless they decide to give you a good review along the way. Even when they give you a good review, rarely does it seem they care about your future as a creative title. Right not reviewers calling gamers "entitled" don't care about your future business because they are just pushing more customers away from you. This agenda clearly doesn't have Bioware in mind. 

Your fans only have one agenda: to enjoy your games. The benefit of that agenda is money in your pocket, loyal customers and a passionate following. Fans so passionate about your games they make and watch 40 minute commentary youtube videos, or write 1000 word fan fictions, or spend hours drawing fan art -- all the while making no money and doing it solely for the passion of your games.

Please listen to those people, not the critics. Your a group of amazing creative people, please don't make us lose faith in you.

 

Agreed!

The Mass Effect games are probably the best games I've ever experienced (Up there with Knights of the Old Republic) until the ending of course, which provided no closure whatsoever with my crew who I've bonded with all these years and left too many questions unanswered.
And Shepard dying? (I don't speak for myself as I chose to destroy the reapers/synthetics and see Shepard breath, barely) He/She has been our Badass Hero all these years and to have NO option for a happy / uplifting ending where Shepard prevails (like the end of Mass Effect 1) is just plain soul crushing. Where are our promised multiple endings directed by our choices in the entire series?! 

Modifié par Kain82, 02 avril 2012 - 01:39 .

[CesarSan]

Well, according to Mass Effect 1, the Reapers needed the Keeper's to activate the inactive Relay which sat at the Presidium in the Citadel. So, that would indicate that the same applies for all of the other Relays.

Unless Godchild waved his holographic space magic Chupa Chup and made all of the inactive ones suddenly activate  - which I didn't see in the ending and is contrary to Mass Effect 1 (which would be yet another plot hole).

Uh... wait a second. The catalyst was there in the citadel this whole time. Then Sovereign just had to make a call to active the mass relay and start the invasion.

"Hello catalyst, the Keepers appear to be broken, can you activate the citadel? Yes, thanks."

[pipemaster9000]

CesarSan wrote...

Well, according to Mass Effect 1, the Reapers needed the Keeper's to activate the inactive Relay which sat at the Presidium in the Citadel. So, that would indicate that the same applies for all of the other Relays.

Unless Godchild waved his holographic space magic Chupa Chup and made all of the inactive ones suddenly activate  - which I didn't see in the ending and is contrary to Mass Effect 1 (which would be yet another plot hole).

Uh... wait a second. The catalyst was there in the citadel this whole time. Then Sovereign just had to make a call to active the mass relay and start the invasion.

"Hello catalyst, the Keepers appear to be broken, can you activate the citadel? Yes, thanks."

Another reason why I want to think IT is true. Seriously, You're the most advanced machines in the Galaxy and you can't even open the front door without the help of some bugs?

[Omnike]

CesarSan wrote...

Well, according to Mass Effect 1, the Reapers needed the Keeper's to activate the inactive Relay which sat at the Presidium in the Citadel. So, that would indicate that the same applies for all of the other Relays.

Unless Godchild waved his holographic space magic Chupa Chup and made all of the inactive ones suddenly activate  - which I didn't see in the ending and is contrary to Mass Effect 1 (which would be yet another plot hole).

Uh... wait a second. The catalyst was there in the citadel this whole time. Then Sovereign just had to make a call to active the mass relay and start the invasion.

"Hello catalyst, the Keepers appear to be broken, can you activate the citadel? Yes, thanks."

Which then adds up to more justified hate of that stupid God Child.

[Blackvista]

CesarSan wrote...

Well, according to Mass Effect 1, the Reapers needed the Keeper's to activate the inactive Relay which sat at the Presidium in the Citadel. So, that would indicate that the same applies for all of the other Relays.

Unless Godchild waved his holographic space magic Chupa Chup and made all of the inactive ones suddenly activate  - which I didn't see in the ending and is contrary to Mass Effect 1 (which would be yet another plot hole).

Uh... wait a second. The catalyst was there in the citadel this whole time. Then Sovereign just had to make a call to active the mass relay and start the invasion.

"Hello catalyst, the Keepers appear to be broken, can you activate the citadel? Yes, thanks."

From what I've been led to understand the... trilogy was mapped out at the start, but they... rewrote the story for the third game and scrapped the way it was originally going to end.

This guy talks about it... as part of his rather long talk about his take on the ending... the rest of his vide is pretty good... also.. sounds like a radio show host

[FairfaxLessee]

The whole problem with the endings is that it's like a director went about making an "authentic" Hamlet, but at the end rather than have Hamlet duel Laertes and everyone end up poisoned, somehow the last 5 minutes of an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie got added.

I know I've been harping on Nocturne in these forums-but Nocturne was an RPG that had 5 endings and all of them were depressing in their own way, but they made sense in the context of the story as a whole-the endings of ME3 just come out of left field (assuming, of course, one was playing volleyball rather than baseball at the time).

Also, as for the indoctrination theory-dream sequences were old when Dallas did it and should remain relegated to tired comedic gags.

[pipemaster9000]

So you're saying that Shepard is immune to Indoctrination? Everything points to him battling indoctrination. Shepard displays many of the symptoms mentioned in the Codex on Indoctrination. It shouldn't have ended there though, maybe something you deal with prior to the final battle. Dallas is irrelevant unless it consisted of sentient machines taking over your mind and degrading you in the process.

You don't have to like it, but the evidence is there. I get the feeling that most people who bash IT haven't explored the option.

[SuperClutch16]

Dear Jessica Merizan,

Before I begin, I would like to whole heartedly thank you, and all the employee at Bioware, for creating an emotionally tugging as well as mentally compelling trilogy.

The Mass Effect series, from the very beginning, was based upon our, the player's, actions and decisions. Quite literally, every unique out come and direction for the Mass Effect universe was determined by the player's choices. However, in the final minutes of Mass Effect 3, everything that defined the Mass Effect universe was stripped away. To be specific, producer Casey Hudson once said that "there are many different endings." He continued to elaborate by iterating that "[Bioware] wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?" Yet, despite his assertion there would multiple endings based on "1000 different variables" and that "Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,” the entire Mass Effect universe culminated into three choices that barely answered any questions and created more that were left unanswered.

To be frank, it seemed that nothing from the last two games even remotely impacted the ending of the third. Granted, everyone and everything you saved from the first two titles added to the war assets. But, they were never seen during cutscenes or dialogue moments. Also, one of the biggest questions asked, is why did Joker and the rest of Shepard's squad inexplicably end up fleeing Earth? More importantly, why would Shepard's love interest leave him/her behind?

Nevertheless, the rest of the Mass Effect 3 story line was beyond expectation. However, to make it worthy of a 10/10 score, the ending must be modified or completely changed and rectified.

Following this further, a positive and widely approved change would be to accept the circulating "Indoctrination Theory." Whether by accident or design, many fans-myself included-have discovered that many events throughout the ending do not add up together. Rather than creating an "aha!" that leads to the bigger picture, they create a mental maze. Unless, the Indoctrination Teory is proven to be correct. In that case, a possible area to pick up from would be after Shepard's choice with the catalyst.

In this situation, a list of recommended changes that would highly improve the ending are:

Shepard ultimately lives or dies depending on his/her decision of the catalyst/crucible and the everall rating of their Effective War Assets

Depending on if Shepard lives after the war, he/she eventually settles down with their love interest. The scene then fades to a future scene of the two with children, building a house, rebuilding their world, and so on.

Explain the origin of the Reapers: who created them, why they exist, and how to ultimately destroy them.

Provide better endings for the squadmates we have come to know and love; after talking with them before the final push, what happened to them exactly is less than clear.

Address the major plot holes created by the original Mass Effect 3 ending.

Though the ending of Mass Effect 3 had some siginficant oversights and plot holes, the remainder of the story was magnificently well done and is worthy of signifcant praise. I hope, as a huge fan of Bioware and Mass Effect, that the inconsistencies experienced through the ending are rectified and addressed. An ending, that pulls together every choice, every decision, and every mistake made throughout the Mass Effect series would be a monumental gift to the fanbase as well as an exemplary saving grace from possible damage towards Bioware's esteemed reputation.

Thank you for your time, and I hope the staff at Bioware the best.

With the greatest respect,
Tanner

[FairfaxLessee]

So you're saying that Shepard is immune to Indoctrination? Everything points to him battling indoctrination. Shepard displays many of the symptoms mentioned in the Codex on Indoctrination. It shouldn't have ended there though, maybe something you deal with prior to the final battle. Dallas is irrelevant unless it consisted of sentient machines taking over your mind and degrading you in the process.

You don't have to like it, but the evidence is there. I get the feeling that most people who bash IT haven't explored the option. 

I'm not saying Shepard is immune or that the theory isn't sound-I'm saying that having the entire third game be a dream is a cop-out of epic proportions.

Also on Dallas, fyi: it was a prime time soap opera in (I think) the late 70's/early 80's-I am referring specifically to the (in)famous "Who Shot JR" season [for more information, check out the Simpsons 2-parter where Maggie shoots Mr. Burns] where, after what (in my understanding) was considered a fairly good season, one of the characters wakes up to someone taking a shower, making the entire previous season (including JR's death) a dream. It was tired then, it's hackneyed now.

Finally, Shepard is NOT necessarily a "him."

Modifié par FairfaxLessee, 02 avril 2012 - 02:24 .

[Chrislo1990]

CesarSan wrote...

Well, according to Mass Effect 1, the Reapers needed the Keeper's to activate the inactive Relay which sat at the Presidium in the Citadel. So, that would indicate that the same applies for all of the other Relays.

Unless Godchild waved his holographic space magic Chupa Chup and made all of the inactive ones suddenly activate  - which I didn't see in the ending and is contrary to Mass Effect 1 (which would be yet another plot hole).

Uh... wait a second. The catalyst was there in the citadel this whole time. Then Sovereign just had to make a call to active the mass relay and start the invasion.

"Hello catalyst, the Keepers appear to be broken, can you activate the citadel? Yes, thanks."

Yeah I know right lol. It's just amazing how Bioware went as far as to ignore established concepts just force an ending that really doesn't fit. You would think they would go back and make sure they we're not vilating established conepts. I mean I'm sure they had notes, scrits, etc, stored somewhere? It's just all so very disappointiong. Most upsetting of all however is the fact that Casey Hudson and the Mac Walters had intended for the trilogy to end in specualtion from the very beginning, yet they continued to reassure the fans that ME3 would close all loose ends and bring closure.

I believe Shepard is an epic hero, and as such he should be given the option to survive the war. Instead we're all  forced to die without any regard for how we chose to approach ME3. Were we Paragon or Renegade? How high were our reputations and EMS scores? How many species were we able to recruit for the cause, and so and so forth. ME3's ending take away our freedom of choice and chooses instead to end Shepard's journey with either option A, B, or C, all of which bring essentially identical outcomes. The only difference is whether the ensuing energy wave is either blue, green, or red. Where's the diverging endings we were promised?

I think Bioware rushed. I mean the dev team had to have seen this coming right? Perhaps in an effort to meet EA's deadline, they quickly implemented an ending without taking the time to actually evaluate how illogical it was. If this were the case, then I don't understand why they didn't negotiate for more time. Any company that valued their reputation and fanbase would have requested  more time to perfect their product before risking such a backlash. Unless of course greed came first.

In sum, I'm just so disappointed. I don't know in what direction Bioware is headed, but from the looks of it, it's not looking good.  They've really tarnished their reputations and now they will have to work extrememly hard to gain consumer trust in them.

Hold the line.

[ElSwampy]

So many blatant plot holes at the end, just why?

[DocJill]

I'm going to spam this everywhere.  It is the best explanation I've seen yet as to why the ending was a failure.  It also has simple recommendations on how to fix the ending. 

"Tasteful, Understated Nerdage."   www.youtube.com/watch

His reccomendations: 
1. Loose the Hologram Kid
2.  Get the mood right
3.  Focus on characters
4. Keep it simple

Unless of course Indoctrination Theory is true and all will soon be okay. 

Edit:  And I would just like to say thank you to Bioware for making such an incredible series that has changed my life.  I love you guys and don't want this to be the beginning of the end of Bioware making quality games. 

Modifié par DocJill, 02 avril 2012 - 02:34 .

[FairfaxLessee]

Chrislo1990 wrote...

CesarSan wrote...

Well, according to Mass Effect 1, the Reapers needed the Keeper's to activate the inactive Relay which sat at the Presidium in the Citadel. So, that would indicate that the same applies for all of the other Relays.

Unless Godchild waved his holographic space magic Chupa Chup and made all of the inactive ones suddenly activate  - which I didn't see in the ending and is contrary to Mass Effect 1 (which would be yet another plot hole).

Uh... wait a second. The catalyst was there in the citadel this whole time. Then Sovereign just had to make a call to active the mass relay and start the invasion.

"Hello catalyst, the Keepers appear to be broken, can you activate the citadel? Yes, thanks."

Yeah I know right lol. It's just amazing how Bioware went as far as to ignore established concepts just force an ending that really doesn't fit. You would think they would go back and make sure they we're not vilating established conepts. I mean I'm sure they had notes, scrits, etc, stored somewhere? It's just all so very disappointiong. Most upsetting of all however is the fact that Casey Hudson and the Mac Walters had intended for the trilogy to end in specualtion from the very beginning, yet they continued to reassure the fans that ME3 would close all loose ends and bring closure.

I believe Shepard is an epic hero, and as such he should be given the option to survive the war. Instead we're all  forced to die without any regard for how we chose to approach ME3. Were we Paragon or Renegade? How high were our reputations and EMS scores? How many species were we able to recruit for the cause, and so and so forth. ME3's ending take away our freedom of choice and chooses instead to end Shepard's journey with either option A, B, or C, all of which bring essentially identical outcomes. The only difference is whether the ensuing energy wave is either blue, green, or red. Where's the diverging endings we were promised?

I think Bioware rushed. I mean the dev team had to have seen this coming right? Perhaps in an effort to meet EA's deadline, they quickly implemented an ending without taking the time to actually evaluate how illogical it was. If this were the case, then I don't understand why they didn't negotiate for more time. Any company that valued their reputation and fanbase would have requested  more time to perfect their product before risking such a backlash. Unless of course greed came first.

In sum, I'm just so disappointed. I don't know in what direction Bioware is headed, but from the looks of it, it's not looking good.  They've really tarnished their reputations and now they will have to work extrememly hard to gain consumer trust in them.

Hold the line.

Please someone reassure me Bioware isn't the new Squeenix...

[improperdancing]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Omnike wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

/rubs temples... its like trying to explain calculus to someone who barely has understanding of basic arithmetic.

why do I even try.

oh right. in hopes that developers might actually poke their heads in there, especially codex writers and go.. hmm, we really do need to address those points.

jeweledleah my friend, I hate to see you wasting your intellectual energy with this err…guy. He’s been trolling this thread for days. He always loses the argument miserably when presented with irrefutable facts…no matter, he keeps at it. He isn’t interested in a reasonable discussion, he’s just trolling. Just ignore him.

Yeah you can't argue with him. He starts them but can't keep them up. He loses, and then starts another one. Ignore Thanatos, he's just a bad troll.

It is called having a life you should try it. I have ststed my posistion consistantly....It is you that just reverts to calling people a troll. Thats when I just go to other things cause the fact is you know you have no standing.

You're on these boards as much as anyone, broski.  You do realize that spending hours on a message board defending the ending of a videogame isn't really different from spending hours on a message board complaining about a videogame, right?

[AlexJK]

trogwolf wrote...

AlexJK wrote...

@trogwolf: "Option 4", also known as "turning off the game" really isn't an option at all is it? I mean, why did you bother playing all the way to end if you didn't feel that life was worth saving?

Since you bothered to post this, I will reply to it.  NOT "also known as "turning off the game"".  If you let time run out without choosing any of the three options, the Crucible gets destroyed.  Making no decidion is a decision, in this game and in real life, and it has its consequences [...]

It's true that in real life, consciously deciding not to act is indeed a decision. But Mass Effect isn't real life. In the ending of Mass Effect 3, you are given three options to choose from. Inventing another one isn't an option that the game provides. If it were, then I would choose option 5; I sit down in front of the space-child-hallucination and argue with it until it agrees with me that the Reapers aren't necessary and that they should all fly themselves into the nearest star. Yay! Best ending ever.

How does not feeling that the current cycle's life is worth saving equate to the game is not worth playing?

Well ultimately it doesn't, but it is a bit like playing a game version of Lord of the Rings with the mindset "you know I don't actually want to destroy this ring." Ultimately pointless?

You're funny.

I dunno, thanks?

[DainetierHornet9]

Mass Effect 3 is hands down the best game I have ever played, the story, the characters and the locations are all incredible. 10/10 in my opinion even with the ending being average.

I agree the ending was a let down but only because alot of questions didn't get answered. I love cliff hangers in a story but not when it doesn't make sense in parts and leaves the viewer scratching his head.

I just think that people should stop getting so angry towards Bioware and its staff. Bioware IS looking at fan feedback and taking onboard what people say and feel. New DLC is on the way to help fans get more closure on the ending... they DO listen

[FreshRevenge]

 I am sure this has been posted in this thread. However I think this sums up the major plotholes and why fans dislike the ending! So all the naysayers can watch and maybe shut the hell up because they seem to be ignorant of anything intelligent! Enjoy!www.youtube.com/watch