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On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


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#13376
Archonsg

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garytwine wrote...

They're good points. Synthesis really makes no sense. Bioware didn't think it through properly. Also, every race has different genes. Sure, some might do the same thing but they wouldn't be human genes. How could Shepard's DNA allow Godchild to change every single species in the galaxy? Makes no sense...



Precisely.

I have posted on just how insane, illogical and inconsistent the ending is. So am now just going to go with the flow and work with the ending as is, at least until Bioware fixes the ending or give me more material to make fun of.

#13377
luci90

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Sans Changer wrote...

luci90 wrote...
Leroy Petry.

I only remember that one because I don't think it's moh worthy.

I'll probably get yelled at for saying that.


Disagree, but won't yell at you. If heroism isn't up for discussion/debate, things get real scary real fast.

This is quite true.

#13378
Guest_iVitriol_*

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Dear BioWare,

Mass Effect 3 was in my humble opinion, the best game in the trilogy.

The ending destroyed that opinion. I know other people may nitpick little details to dislike, but as a whole, the game was outstanding. I enjoyed every second of my first 40-hour playthrough, well, until the last 10 minutes that is.

My two problems with the ending are these:
After spending hundreds of hours throughout the trilogy, and the many playthroughs that entails, I was greatly dissapointed in the lack of options I was given. With all the effort I put into saving the galaxy, why did the Citadel and relays get destroyed? I had my War Assets and Readiness maxed out, yet it made no difference to the outcome. The universe was essentially destroyed. I felt as if it would have been better to just let the reapers win to preserve the Citadel/relays for the next cycle. Shepard's presumed death was also dissapointing for the above reasons. Why can't my Male!Shep build Tali a home on Rannoch or my Fem!Shep get hammered with Garrus?

The ending killed my will to replay any of the Mass Effect games, and has caused me to loose credability with your company.

Please fix the ending (Indoctrination Theory seems to be the best option.)

Sincerely, Matthew

Modifié par iVitriol, 03 avril 2012 - 09:54 .


#13379
Corpsetorn

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Andy the Black wrote...

Corpsetorn wrote...

Okay, I may be alone in this, but feel free to tell me if you agree or disagree.

I feel there should be NO final choice in the ending.

Let me explain my opinion concisely.

I believe that having an ending choice makes most of what you did irrelevant. If you got to choose how it all ended from the getgo, why even play the other games?

To me, the ending should be determined by all the choices you have already made, every path you took, and every one you didn't. I realize ME is a choice-based series, and perhaps BW felt that the ending should really drive that home. But it would have been more effective to let your entire story do the determining for you. If you did "blank" but not "blank" this is what would have happened. However, if you did "blank" AND "blank," the outcome is different.

Having a final choice may seem like an important factor, but I'd argue that not having a final choice, instead having the outcome be determined by how you lived, what you already chose, etc. has a much greater impact than getting 3 options and making everything you did pointless.

Just my opinion of course.


You, sir, have my vote.


My boss said "don't let 5% of the game ruin 95% of it, it's about the journey."

This is true, but it's hard when that 5% is the one event that basically tells you whether or not the journey was worth it.

#13380
WanabeSpiderMan

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Major Nemesis wrote...

I honestly thought that the campaign was, for the majority, one of the greatest games I have ever played. It was emotional both happy and sad. If I could describe the game in one word, it would be "epic".

Though I felt betrayed in the final 10 minutes of the game. When charging towards the particle beam to the Citadel and the following bleak endings, I felt as if someone else had taken the developer control from Bioware and gave us all 16 horrible endings purely for the sake of seeming philosophically sophisticated. Everything I had ever done in all of the games seemed to be absolutely pointless. All character relationships were rendered meaningless. I could have taken the janitor of the Citadel on the final mission and it wouldn't have made a significant difference in the end of the game.

I made sure I did every decision in the prior games the way I would actually make them in real life. The game is very captivating and I really got into the series. I play videogames to escape the bleak realities of our world which is stricken by war, death and mistrust. I play games to immerse myself in a universe where, at the end of the day, while it may seem too ideal for reality, I get the fiarytale ending where everything works out.

The mass relays are gone, Shepard is supposedly dead, the crew of the Normandy bailed in the fight for Earth, they also somehow managed to pick up Garrus and Liara (my squadmates) within the 5 minutes between me entering the Citadel and it exploding and leave. That doesn't make any sense. The Normandy wouldn't have time for that and they would never leave Shepard. Garrus said before the final mission that he would stick with Shepard to the end. When he stepped out of the Normandy on some far off planet in some other system, that meant that he in fact lied to Shepard and left him to die. I don't see that as being possible.

Now that the mass relays are gone, how is anyone going to communicate and travel to other systems? The crew of the Normandy is now trapped on some distant uninhabited planet thousands of lightyears away from earth. They will never get back. Are they just going to set up camp and start a new race? I don't think so.

All of the fleets that massed together for the final attack are now trapped near earth and far from their homes. That doesn't make sense. How are they going to make that work? It was also my understanding that if a Mass Relay went critical and exploded, that it would be similar to an energy release of a supernova. That means that many of the homeworlds of all the primary species were completely obliterated by the Mass Relay explosions that Shepard generated. I don't think that is something Shepard would be willing to do.

I like the idea that people have been proposing that the last scnenes were the Reaper indoctrination of Shepard. That makes sense to me considering the scene at the end that shows Shepard in the London rubble. Shepard could not have survived the citadel explosion and then fall to earth. His body would have been obliterated into nothing.

So what I am hoping is true and what I will believe if this is never resloved is that right before Shepard and the others made the final sprint to the energy stream, the story went from reality, to the elaborate indoctrination attempt of the Reapers in Shepard's mind. This implies that the Reapers are still attacking on Earth and that the Reapers are only trying to transform Shepard, (humanity's most powerful asset) into something they themselves could manipulate to aid in the orchestraded downfall of the galaxy.

So the story is unfinished. Please give us the ending we all saw coming where Shepard finishes the fight, saves humanity, and everyone survives. As it stands now, this ending has killed the replay value of all of the games. I don't see a point in going through all the games again when I know that no matter what I do, it wont really end well. I've been walking around for the past few days feeling like something is wrong with me and I can't really isolate it. Turns out, its the Mass Effect 3 ending that is giving me a somber mood these days. I never thought that a game could have so much power over me. A tribue to you guys for such an excellent series. I adore all the games.

Just please grant your loyal fans at least one option to be rewarded for all the hard work they put forth in the games. Its ok if the majority of the endings are fatalistic. I recognize that the chances of defeating the Reapers are slim. But by making all the efforts to prepare for the Reapers in all the various ways a player can, I think it is only fair that we be rewarded for our efforts. Our efforts and war assets and galactic readiness proves our desire to have Shepard and his team live. I implore you guys to grant us at least the possiblitiy of the "perfect ending" where Shepard and his team lives, and humanity and the other races of the galaxy are saved. Please guys. Please at least give us the option, even if you don't consider it canon. As it stands, I am too devastated by the outcome. Thanks for listening. You guys worked hard on these games and I really appreciate it. Good luck guys. I hope we can all get this resolved.


I concur with this heartfelt plea.

#13381
luci90

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Corpsetorn wrote...

My boss said "don't let 5% of the game ruin 95% of it, it's about the journey."

This is true, but it's hard when that 5% is the one event that basically tells you whether or not the journey was worth it.


Take your boss out for a nice lunch.
Then when the bill comes punch him in the face and force him to pay for the both of you.

When he asks why say "it's all about the journey, bro"

#13382
garytwine

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luci90 wrote...

Corpsetorn wrote...

My boss said "don't let 5% of the game ruin 95% of it, it's about the journey."

This is true, but it's hard when that 5% is the one event that basically tells you whether or not the journey was worth it.


Take your boss out for a nice lunch.
Then when the bill comes punch him in the face and force him to pay for the both of you.

When he asks why say "it's all about the journey, bro"


Actually, if it was about the journey, after he ate the food should you put two fingers down his throat and make him puke it back up? Welcome to Mass Effect 3's ending.

Modifié par garytwine, 03 avril 2012 - 10:16 .


#13383
Leem_0001

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I understand the whole 'its all about the journey' idea, but the simple fact is that if an ending is poor it ruins the journey somewhat, If its average then the journey can still be enjoyed. If its poor then maybe less so.

Then there is the ME3 ending. And it is so bad that it does, in fact, ruin the journey.

#13384
shonefob

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garytwine wrote...

luci90 wrote...

Corpsetorn wrote...

My boss said "don't let 5% of the game ruin 95% of it, it's about the journey."

This is true, but it's hard when that 5% is the one event that basically tells you whether or not the journey was worth it.


Take your boss out for a nice lunch.
Then when the bill comes punch him in the face and force him to pay for the both of you.

When he asks why say "it's all about the journey, bro"

www.youtube.com/watch  There you go a video to explain the theory.


Actually, if it was about the journey, after he ate the food should you put two fingers down his throat and make him puke it back up? Welcome to Mass Effect 3's ending.



#13385
Grimez7

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garytwine wrote...

luci90 wrote...

Corpsetorn wrote...

My boss said "don't let 5% of the game ruin 95% of it, it's about the journey."

This is true, but it's hard when that 5% is the one event that basically tells you whether or not the journey was worth it.


Take your boss out for a nice lunch.
Then when the bill comes punch him in the face and force him to pay for the both of you.

When he asks why say "it's all about the journey, bro"


Actually, if it was about the journey, after he ate the food should you put two fingers down his throat and make him puke it back up? Welcome to Mass Effect 3's ending.


LOL!

#13386
WanabeSpiderMan

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luci90 wrote...

Corpsetorn wrote...

My boss said "don't let 5% of the game ruin 95% of it, it's about the journey."

This is true, but it's hard when that 5% is the one event that basically tells you whether or not the journey was worth it.


Take your boss out for a nice lunch.
Then when the bill comes punch him in the face and force him to pay for the both of you.

When he asks why say "it's all about the journey, bro"


LMAO. I have always immediately started a New Game + after I complete a Mass Effect game, but after I beat 3, that feeling was negated. The fun of the journey is tainted. So I'm holding out hope the new content improves the ending enough to get me excited to start a New Game + to see it. 

#13387
EugeneBi

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I think that Dark Energy ending that was originally proposed suffers from the same problem as the current one: it explains *why* reapers have come. As if anybody cares...
Explanation kills excitement.

#13388
Bosatsu

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Everything with Tali ofcourse, but there were so many moments and made me feel something, in a way no other games have. Mass Effect is the best series ever in my opinion. BUT, the last 20 minutes of the last game really didn't feel right, the emptiness after the ending was huge, felt like I failed and let everybody down, never got to see Tali again.

I spend 150 hours trying to save the universe for utter destruction and in the end I'm the one who destroys it.

#13389
luci90

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garytwine wrote...

luci90 wrote...

Corpsetorn wrote...

My boss said "don't let 5% of the game ruin 95% of it, it's about the journey."

This is true, but it's hard when that 5% is the one event that basically tells you whether or not the journey was worth it.


Take your boss out for a nice lunch.
Then when the bill comes punch him in the face and force him to pay for the both of you.
When he asks why say "it's all about the journey, bro"


Actually, if it was about the journey, after he ate the food should you put two fingers down his throat and make him puke it back up? Welcome to Mass Effect 3's ending


Hah!
That works well too.

#13390
Enomis Scorcher

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luci90 wrote...

Corpsetorn wrote...

My boss said "don't let 5% of the game ruin 95% of it, it's about the journey."

This is true, but it's hard when that 5% is the one event that basically tells you whether or not the journey was worth it.


Take your boss out for a nice lunch.
Then when the bill comes punch him in the face and force him to pay for the both of you.

When he asks why say "it's all about the journey, bro"


...quite sure is not a good idea with any boss , but is exactly what BW done to us!!....And since we are the ones that, buying their products, pay their bills, we are somewhat their bosses!
So sorry if I don't agree with those that say that ppl at BW  owes us nothing.
I don't say i'll never buy any more BW game in the future, I say that (and I know I repeat myself) they are destroying the ME franchise!

And one last thing (for tonight!): real life is many times so crappy I don't believe it's wrong to expect an happy ending or two .... at least in games!

#13391
luci90

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WanabeSpiderMan wrote...

luci90 wrote...

Corpsetorn wrote...

My boss said "don't let 5% of the game ruin 95% of it, it's about the journey."

This is true, but it's hard when that 5% is the one event that basically tells you whether or not the journey was worth it.


Take your boss out for a nice lunch.


Then when the bill comes punch him in the face and force him to pay for the both of you.

When he asks why say "it's all about the journey, bro"



LMAO. I have always immediately started a New Game + after I complete a Mass Effect game, but after I beat 3, that feeling was negated. The fun of the journey is tainted. So I'm holding out hope the new content improves the ending enough to get me excited to start a New Game + to see it. 


I know the feeling.

I can't even play the other two games as i get upset and sad knowing how it's going to end.

#13392
DeathWingKingUltimate

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If you're listening then PLEASE do something about it. Don't LET IT GO TO WASTE. YOU ARE STRONGER THAN THEM Don't GIVE IN. RESIST their Indoctrination.

#13393
The Laird

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If we do get some ending fix, dlc, whatever, when do people think we will get it?

#13394
Johnathonm

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Cuties,

The stupid Buzz Aldrin space adventures moon(s) are the same ones of the Jungle Adventures ending(s). Implied reestablishment of civilization and homosecks with panda bears.

RAINBOWS... MY SWEET.

#13395
Legion is Skynet

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I'll freely admit that I haven't read all 536 pages on this forum, but I've read a whole lot of them. The overwhelming sense that I get is extremely negative, and almost ALL of it has to do with the last ten minutes of the game.

Granted, I was pissed about the ending. I felt it was hand-waving and sloppy. After over 100 hours of gameplay and story development, to introduce the final overarching "bad guy" AND the grand solution in the last ten minutes is quite simply bad writing. However I have a very difficult time blaming the writers of the game for this, because it is so incredibly inconsistent with the rest of the narrative. I feel that the game was rushed, and the creative and wonderful minds that gave us so much awesome story were simply boxed into a corner in the interest of shipping the game on time.

That being said, how great was this story? The final minutes of the game are certainly open for debate, but why doesn't anybody consider the other 25+ hours of this game? Why does everyone seem to say "yeah that was good, but the ending KILLED the entire franchise"?The ENTIRETY of Mass Effect 3 was an ending, not just the final scene. The whole game tells the story of each character and what their ultimate fate will be, and believe it or not, our choices actually DID matter in that regard, just not in the binary way some people think.

I've talked with people who couldn't understand why they weren't able to save the Quarians, even after making all the "right" choices in ME3. Turns out it was because of something they did/didn't do in ME2. The fate of Kaiden/Ashley has an arc that begins in ME1 and doesn't end until ME3. Same thing with Wrex.

Take Mordin for another example. His story in ME3 has a very simple arc where his options are 1) he dies curing the Genophage, 2) he dies because you kill him in his attempt to cure the Genophage, 3) he lives, but Eve dies (not clear on the details of this one), or 4) he dies in ME2 during the suicide mission. Really doesn't seem too complicated on the face of it. Actually, it seems pretty simple to write.

But I personally couldn't do it. Even on my Renegade playthrough, I absolutely could not betray Mordin, let alone kill him. This isn't because I'm some altruistic, awesome person. It's because they made me care about the character. All logical signs pointed to deceiving the Krogan. It's quite simply the most pragmatic choice to take in both the short and long term. But I didn't do it because I felt like I knew Wrex, and I knew Mordin, and I knew all the progress they were both making. I couldn't betray that.

The same applies for Tali vs. Legion, or Grunt vs. the Rachni Queen. We can all bemoan it now because we all know the results, but think about before that, the first time you played the game. When you had to make the call about whether you should reinforce Grunt and lose the Rachni Queen, or leave him to die to protect the her. Or when you were faced with the decision of who to support when the Geth faced off against the Quarian Fleet. Or the fact that a lot of us got Miranda killed because we didn't give her a heads-up. Same with Kelly Chambers.

So what if my decision to let someone live on a side-quest in ME1 didn't translate to some awesome revelation in ME3. The narrative was based around the characters all along, and in that regard this game succeeded on a level I have never seen any other game produced (final ten minutes aside, obviously). And that narrative wasn't necessarily based around "what option will you choose to save everyone", and more about "how much do you care about this person?"

As I said before, I get the criticism people are leveling about the ending. But can we not just take a minute to appreciate what these writers, programmers, actors, and staff have done? Just a minute? Or is absolutely ALL of it wiped away because we didn't find the ending satisfactory?

#13396
shonefob

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The Laird wrote...

If we do get some ending fix, dlc, whatever, when do people think we will get it?

I would say any early than 7 months and they had planned to do this all along.  So after 7 months is the best bet and if they are reading this like they say they are than come out and correct me.  (they are probably lieing about reading too)

#13397
MePetDovah

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Legion is Skynet wrote...

I'll freely admit that I haven't read all 536 pages on this forum, but I've read a whole lot of them. The overwhelming sense that I get is extremely negative, and almost ALL of it has to do with the last ten minutes of the game.

Granted, I was pissed about the ending. I felt it was hand-waving and sloppy. After over 100 hours of gameplay and story development, to introduce the final overarching "bad guy" AND the grand solution in the last ten minutes is quite simply bad writing. However I have a very difficult time blaming the writers of the game for this, because it is so incredibly inconsistent with the rest of the narrative. I feel that the game was rushed, and the creative and wonderful minds that gave us so much awesome story were simply boxed into a corner in the interest of shipping the game on time.

That being said, how great was this story? The final minutes of the game are certainly open for debate, but why doesn't anybody consider the other 25+ hours of this game? Why does everyone seem to say "yeah that was good, but the ending KILLED the entire franchise"?The ENTIRETY of Mass Effect 3 was an ending, not just the final scene. The whole game tells the story of each character and what their ultimate fate will be, and believe it or not, our choices actually DID matter in that regard, just not in the binary way some people think.

I've talked with people who couldn't understand why they weren't able to save the Quarians, even after making all the "right" choices in ME3. Turns out it was because of something they did/didn't do in ME2. The fate of Kaiden/Ashley has an arc that begins in ME1 and doesn't end until ME3. Same thing with Wrex.

Take Mordin for another example. His story in ME3 has a very simple arc where his options are 1) he dies curing the Genophage, 2) he dies because you kill him in his attempt to cure the Genophage, 3) he lives, but Eve dies (not clear on the details of this one), or 4) he dies in ME2 during the suicide mission. Really doesn't seem too complicated on the face of it. Actually, it seems pretty simple to write.

But I personally couldn't do it. Even on my Renegade playthrough, I absolutely could not betray Mordin, let alone kill him. This isn't because I'm some altruistic, awesome person. It's because they made me care about the character. All logical signs pointed to deceiving the Krogan. It's quite simply the most pragmatic choice to take in both the short and long term. But I didn't do it because I felt like I knew Wrex, and I knew Mordin, and I knew all the progress they were both making. I couldn't betray that.

The same applies for Tali vs. Legion, or Grunt vs. the Rachni Queen. We can all bemoan it now because we all know the results, but think about before that, the first time you played the game. When you had to make the call about whether you should reinforce Grunt and lose the Rachni Queen, or leave him to die to protect the her. Or when you were faced with the decision of who to support when the Geth faced off against the Quarian Fleet. Or the fact that a lot of us got Miranda killed because we didn't give her a heads-up. Same with Kelly Chambers.

So what if my decision to let someone live on a side-quest in ME1 didn't translate to some awesome revelation in ME3. The narrative was based around the characters all along, and in that regard this game succeeded on a level I have never seen any other game produced (final ten minutes aside, obviously). And that narrative wasn't necessarily based around "what option will you choose to save everyone", and more about "how much do you care about this person?"

As I said before, I get the criticism people are leveling about the ending. But can we not just take a minute to appreciate what these writers, programmers, actors, and staff have done? Just a minute? Or is absolutely ALL of it wiped away because we didn't find the ending satisfactory?



Amen :)

#13398
seitani

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luci90 wrote...

Corpsetorn wrote...

My boss said "don't let 5% of the game ruin 95% of it, it's about the journey."

This is true, but it's hard when that 5% is the one event that basically tells you whether or not the journey was worth it.


Take your boss out for a nice lunch.
Then when the bill comes punch him in the face and force him to pay for the both of you.

When he asks why say "it's all about the journey, bro"


haha well said bro

#13399
Lancane

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Legion is Skynet wrote...
As I said before, I get the criticism people are leveling about the ending. But can we not just take a minute to appreciate what these writers, programmers, actors, and staff have done? Just a minute? Or is absolutely ALL of it wiped away because we didn't find the ending satisfactory?


Sorry, no...it's all wiped out by the horrendously poor written ending. The conclusion of any storyline arch is the culmination of everything from throughout the story to that point, it's suppose to answer all lingering questions and leave the readers or audience with a sense of fulfillment.  

Do you really believe that Lord of the Rings and other such literary classics would be considered such had they had such terrible written endings? No author worth their salt should want to be remembered for ending a great story arch on a conclusively ****** poor note. That is exactly what the ending has done here, it's marred what was a great overall storyline. 

#13400
Skull Bearer

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The problem with all but 5% of the game being brilliant is that if the 5% was the beginning, the middle, or split into little bits of fail around the game, the general tone of the game would not have been brought down. People would say, 'yeah, that bit was lame, but they can't get everything right'. I had my issues with several parts of ME2 (*cough*everythingJacob*cough*) but that didn't stop it being probably my favourite game of all time.

The ending though? If you can't get that right, you've just shot your head off. Worse, it changes the tone of the game. There were a fair amount of things I didn't like (mostly the autodialogue and why the hell I should care about that damn kid), but I could shrug it off in favour of the absolutely awesome moments (Tuchanka and Rannoch and I really loved the planet scanning thing. I felt like I was nicking things from the Reapers and that felt GREAT), with the ending though? Suddenly I kept remember all the things I didn't like about ME3, it cast a long shadow over the game, and highlighted all the things I hadn't enjoyed.

Look, we're not asking for much. Just give us a chance to tell the holokid at the end to die in a fire and trust in the fleets to beat the Reapers. Let it all come down to EMS, not blue, red and green.