23455 réponses à ce sujet

[ajlueke]

akenn312 wrote...

Mass Effect writer Drew Karpyshyn revealed his original intent for the ending of Mass Effect 3, which involved the concept of Dark Energy, which was hinted at in the previous two games, such as on Haelstrom during
Tali's recruitment mission, when she commented that the planet's sun was an advanced age for no scientific reason.

The Dark Energy was a force that was going to consume everything. According to Karpyshyn, "The Reapers as a whole were 'nations' of people who had fused together in the most horrific way possible to help find a way to stop the
spread of the Dark Energy. The real reason for the Human Reaper was supposed to be the Reapers saving throw because they had run out of time. Humanity in MassEffect is supposedly unique because of its genetic diversity and represented the universe's best chance at stopping Dark Energy's spread."

The original choice was between killing the Reapers and trying to find a way to stop the Dark Energy threat with what little time was left before it consumed the galaxy, or, "Sacrifice humanity, allowing them to be horrifically processed in hopes that the end result will justify the means."

Is this confirmed?  If so, that ending would have been infinately superior to what they ultimately decided to do, and play in perfectly with the previous games stories.  It is really just as simply as a writer change?  I you look at my earlier rant, the story of the third game really ruined the series for me.  Did the new writers not ask Karpyshyn what he originally intended?  He was still with the company working on The Old Republic, not like they shot him to the moon or anything.

That ending also plays in prefectly with another theme from the first two games.  In mass effect 1, when you become a spectre, you effectively serve the council and not humanity.  And there is the constant pull to do what is in humanities best interest versus all the races of the galaxy. 

That theme recurs again in the second game, working for the Illusive man.  Again you must decide wether to ultimately give the base to a pro-human terrorist organization, or again serve the best interests of the galaxy. 

If the end of the third game had ultimately forced you to decide to sacrifce all of humanity to create the human reaper to save the galaxy, or potentially doom all races by destroying the reapers, it would have been an excellent payoff to a theme that was central to the series.  Instead we got that AI garbage.  It really just blows my mind. 

[FS3D]

luci90 wrote...

 Wow, this is one committed troll.


Not a very good troll...but still, quite committed.

That's why I reported him. After all, if he's going to troll the forums, we have a right to demand he be stopped. Some of us here are interested in an actual discussion and not a "you're too stupid to get the deep and meaningful endings" type response.

[FS3D]

rachellouise wrote...

I think it's good that people demand reasons (legitimate reasons, mind you, determined by none other than themselves) for another's opinion

I like the ending
Any DLC made available == more for me to play.

You know what, that's quite fair.

And I've always advocated the same thing. Let people keep their existing endings if they think it's deep and meaningful, and let those of us who objected to them have our choice to go another direction with the story.

[Jassu1979]

I think somebody already linked to "The Do's and Don'ts of Novel Endings" (link), yet I think it might provide some material for a fruitful discussion to quote it here and apply it to the ending of ME3:

1. Do not introduce any new characters or subplots. Any appearances within the last 50 pages should have been foreshadowed earlier, even if mysteriously.

2. Don’t describe, muse, explain or philosophize. Keep description to a minimum, but maximize action and conflict. You have placed all your charges. Now, light the fuse and run.

3. Do create that sense of Oh, wow! Your best novelties and biggest surprises should go here. Readers love it when some early, trivial detail plays a part in the finale. One or more of those things need to show up here as decisive elements.

4. Do enmesh your reader deeply in the outcome. Get her so involved that she cannot put down your novel to go to bed, to work or even to the bathroom until she sees how it turns out.

5. DO Resolve the central conflict. You don’t have to provide a happily-ever-after ending, but do try to uplift. Readers want to be uplifted, and editors try to give readers what they want.

6. Do Afford redemption to your heroic character. No matter how many mistakes she has made along the way, allow the reader—and the character—to realize that, in the end, she has done the right thing.

7. Do Tie up loose ends of significance. Every question you planted in a reader’s mind should be addressed, even if the answer is to say that a character will address that issue later, after the book ends.

8. Do Mirror your final words to events in your opener. When you begin a journey of writing a novel, already having established a destination, it’s much easier to make calculated detours, twists and turns in your storytelling tactics. When you reach the ending, go back to ensure some element in each of your complications will point to it. It’s the tie-back tactic. You don’t have to telegraph the finish. Merely create a feeling that the final words hearken to an earlier moment in the story.

9. Don’t change voice, tone or attitude. An ending will feel tacked on if the voice of the narrator suddenly sounds alien to the voice that’s been consistent for the previous 80,000 words.

10. Don’t resort to gimmicks. No quirky twists or trick endings. You’re at the end of your story, and if your reader has stuck with you the whole time, it’s because you’ve engaged her, because she has participated. The final impression you want to create is a positive one. Don’t leave your reader feeling tricked or cheated.

Modifié par Jassu1979, 04 avril 2012 - 04:52 .

[RevanREK]

This journal on DA is very relevant, looking at the relationship between producers and consumers, especially mass effect 3 and TNMT. I found it an interesting read and it asks some very important questions. techgnotic.deviantart.com/journal/The-Future-of-Storytelling-Has-Arrived-293860261

Modifié par RevanREK, 04 avril 2012 - 04:56 .

[LaurenShepard-N7]

You know what's kinda funny, I was just talking to my mum about ME3 before and the conversation went like this:
Me: I'm so depressed about the Mass Effect 3 ending

Her: Was it unsatisfying or poorly written?

Me: Both

Her: Other people must be upset about it then.

Me: Like you wouldn't believe. This series is all about the choices you make throughout the games. In the end all you have is a choice between 3 endings which play the same scene except with different coloured explosions.

Her: It sounds your choices didn't really matter then. They should make a new ending.

My mum doesn't play videogames outside of Farmville, how come she gets it and Bioware doesn't???

Modifié par LaurenShepard-N7, 04 avril 2012 - 05:06 .

[Stygian1]

Jassu1979 wrote...

I think somebody already linked to "The Do's and Don'ts of Novel Endings" (link), yet I think it might provide some material for a fruitful discussion to quote it here and apply it to the ending of ME3:

1. Do not introduce any new characters or subplots. Any appearances within the last 50 pages should have been foreshadowed earlier, even if mysteriously.

2. Don’t describe, muse, explain or philosophize. Keep description to a minimum, but maximize action and conflict. You have placed all your charges. Now, light the fuse and run.

3. Do create that sense of Oh, wow! Your best novelties and biggest surprises should go here. Readers love it when some early, trivial detail plays a part in the finale. One or more of those things need to show up here as decisive elements.

4. Do enmesh your reader deeply in the outcome. Get her so involved that she cannot put down your novel to go to bed, to work or even to the bathroom until she sees how it turns out.

5. DO Resolve the central conflict. You don’t have to provide a happily-ever-after ending, but do try to uplift. Readers want to be uplifted, and editors try to give readers what they want.

6. Do Afford redemption to your heroic character. No matter how many mistakes she has made along the way, allow the reader—and the character—to realize that, in the end, she has done the right thing.

7. Do Tie up loose ends of significance. Every question you planted in a reader’s mind should be addressed, even if the answer is to say that a character will address that issue later, after the book ends.

8. Do Mirror your final words to events in your opener. When you begin a journey of writing a novel, already having established a destination, it’s much easier to make calculated detours, twists and turns in your storytelling tactics. When you reach the ending, go back to ensure some element in each of your complications will point to it. It’s the tie-back tactic. You don’t have to telegraph the finish. Merely create a feeling that the final words hearken to an earlier moment in the story.

9. Don’t change voice, tone or attitude. An ending will feel tacked on if the voice of the narrator suddenly sounds alien to the voice that’s been consistent for the previous 80,000 words.

10. Don’t resort to gimmicks. No quirky twists or trick endings. You’re at the end of your story, and if your reader has stuck with you the whole time, it’s because you’ve engaged her, because she has participated. The final impression you want to create is a positive one. Don’t leave your reader feeling tricked or cheated.

Think BioWare forgot this--all of this. 

[Archonsg]

Random musings on Synthesis
(reposting and addendums) 
 
Since Bioware waved its magic wand and made it possible for the merging of organics and synthetics, lets at least explore a little what this could mean.
 
Lets start with the Organics.

Now that you are part synthetic does this mean you can now communicate via touch interface since you all now share the same basic circuitry? 

What about wireless communication? Of course not all species will have this feature from the onset, but, since we are part synthetic now, upgrades? If not why not, since if you are able to rewrite a being's DNA to include electrical circuitry, wouldn't  the lack of such a feature be such a huge design oversight for a synthetic?

On the subject of DNA over-write, does this mean that the Quarian and Turian race are now genectially compatible with everyone else? If not, why not since again, if you are able to re-write a being's genetic code from ground up wouldn't compatibility be a primary issue?

If this is the case, and all beings are now compatible, awesome! Nothing to stop Shepard with having a baby with either Tali or Garrus.
Oh wait! You can't. He / She's dead. Bummer. 
 
Also how about food and sustenence, can we now supplement out protein intake by simply plugging into a power outlet? How about grafting solar panels onto our skins? Would this work?

How about speech? Do we now all talk like the Geth, with short data bursts?

Would we get spyware?

Or instant spam via wireless communications straight to your central processing core (brain)?

Now, onto the Synthetics.

So now the Reapers are also a Synthetic / organic hybrids? This would allude that they will now have organs right? After all, you can't be an "organic" without organs right?

So Reapers, now have a brain, heart, lungs, stomach and other bits and pieces that an organic needs to be rightly called an organic hybrid right?

So the first question, how would you handle reaper sex and reproduction? Sex, birth and death is central to an organic, so while as a machine they could manufacture themselves, to truly understand what it means to be an organic, shouldn't  sex, birth and the raising of offsprings be part of their experiences?

Also in the name of compatibility, can the Reapers now mate with say a Hanar, Turian or human for that matter? If not why not? After all, aren't we now sharing the same DNA?
 
What about bodily functions?

Part of being an organic is dealing with what our body requires. 

Two words.
Reaper poop.
 
And lastly, for now at least, one of those organic functions really need to be looked at. Namely, its stomach, and hunger associated with it.

That's right folks, by merging organics and synthetics, you just gave the Reapers a REAL reason to hunt every other living thing to consume and subsists since that is part of what an organic does. We eat and ... Well I already mentioned poop.
 
So now we have 2 kilometer high beings, that because you choose synthesis, should have organs too, and the last time I check, the stomach is a necessary organ. And guess what is now top of the food chain? 
Seriously think about it. The Reapers NEED TO EAT NOW.

What about the Geth? 
They are really programs and uses mobile platforms to well, be mobile. Are they now fused to whatever platform they happen to be in and also get the flesh and blood treatment and if so, how would they know if they are male or female or both?

Sex is after all, an organic thing. Can't become a hybrid without it. 

What about those still in central hubs?
How would those programs become fused with organic material? 
 
And before anyone says all this is silly, its no more sillier then at a wave of the hand make every living thing, plants included, an organic/synthetic hybrid complete with circuitry at the DNA level.

Modifié par Archonsg, 04 avril 2012 - 05:00 .

[Versidious]

john-in-france wrote...

Happiest moment: Grunt surviving the Rachni. I was yelling in joy.

That wasa genuinely a fantastic moment. You're expecting him to die, as per the game's general dark, bleak feel,  BUT NO! Grunt is just *too* hard a b******** for some goddamn indoctrinated cyber-Rachni to take him down!

[akenn312]

Versidious wrote...

akenn312 wrote...

If the
original author who wrote the stories for Mass Effect 1 and 2 says he
had already written the ending concept of Mass Effect 3 for Bioware
before he left and now the current Bioware team goes completely against
it, that is changing the artistic integrity of the original concept. So
it is not stupid or childish for people to find the current ending weird
or out of place and dislike it or to actually want Bioware to stick to
the authors original concept that ties all three stories together like
they were originally planned.

That is the main issue with the
problems of the current ending it was not the intended resolution of the
story. It is obviously out of place. Bioware thought they could get
away with changing it because they gambled and thought the gamers that
really don't care about the previous plots built up in the story would
still like Mass Effect 3 and outnumber the ones that didn't.

Bit
of a misconception there. Karpyshyn was ONE of the lead writers to
begin with (The Director of the Mass Effect trilogy, Casey Hudson, has
been in charge since day 1) and floated the 'Dark Energy' idea as one of
several. He himself has said that there are lots of things he was fine
with in the final scene, that wouldn't have been different if he was
still one of the Lead Writers, and has supported the final team. His
actual quote turns up occasionally on forum threads, but I can't
remember where the interview was from, I'm afraid!

Although I
think his Dark Energy suggestion *was* better (Though still far from
perfect), I think there are rumours about his ending that are getting a
bit out of hand, and based on little but supposition about people that
we don't actually know much about other than that they write for
Bioware, and produced an ending we hate.   :-P

Yeah here is the article, I almost had hope there was a better ending somewhere already made
http://www.gameranx....ies-conclusion/

He says this "From what I hear, the basic concept of the original ending is there, though some details may have been tweaked,"

Which could mean anything on what was tweaked.

I think i'm just more surprised that they didn't really plan this ending out very well. The Dark Energy plot makes more sense because of all the forshadowing in Mass Effect 2. I still think if you start forshadowing some type of endgame climax in the middle of a trilogy heavly you should commit to that endgame. Just like I said you can't have Darth Vader say "Luke, I'm your father" in Empire, then in Jedi say "Nah just kidding."

But its weird, it seems they had the Dark Energy plan more thought out than what they do have now and really wished they would have gone with it instead. I still think it breaks the artistic integrity and characters of the story if you comit to a final resolution concept in the 2nd game then change it up at the last 5 minutes in the third.

It's a shame, I think it just comes out to they just had to throw something out there.

Modifié par akenn312, 04 avril 2012 - 05:10 .

[Thanatos144]

luci90 wrote...

 Wow, this is one committed troll.


Not a very good troll...but still, quite committed.

nIs evberyone you dont agree with a troll or just those who have the gumption to speak up?????

[Curtis255]

Jassu1979 wrote...

I think somebody already linked to "The Do's and Don'ts of Novel Endings" (link), yet I think it might provide some material for a fruitful discussion to quote it here and apply it to the ending of ME3:

1. Do not introduce any new characters or subplots. Any appearances within the last 50 pages should have been foreshadowed earlier, even if mysteriously.

2. Don’t describe, muse, explain or philosophize. Keep description to a minimum, but maximize action and conflict. You have placed all your charges. Now, light the fuse and run.

3. Do create that sense of Oh, wow! Your best novelties and biggest surprises should go here. Readers love it when some early, trivial detail plays a part in the finale. One or more of those things need to show up here as decisive elements.

4. Do enmesh your reader deeply in the outcome. Get her so involved that she cannot put down your novel to go to bed, to work or even to the bathroom until she sees how it turns out.

5. DO Resolve the central conflict. You don’t have to provide a happily-ever-after ending, but do try to uplift. Readers want to be uplifted, and editors try to give readers what they want.

6. Do Afford redemption to your heroic character. No matter how many mistakes she has made along the way, allow the reader—and the character—to realize that, in the end, she has done the right thing.

7. Do Tie up loose ends of significance. Every question you planted in a reader’s mind should be addressed, even if the answer is to say that a character will address that issue later, after the book ends.

8. Do Mirror your final words to events in your opener. When you begin a journey of writing a novel, already having established a destination, it’s much easier to make calculated detours, twists and turns in your storytelling tactics. When you reach the ending, go back to ensure some element in each of your complications will point to it. It’s the tie-back tactic. You don’t have to telegraph the finish. Merely create a feeling that the final words hearken to an earlier moment in the story.

9. Don’t change voice, tone or attitude. An ending will feel tacked on if the voice of the narrator suddenly sounds alien to the voice that’s been consistent for the previous 80,000 words.

10. Don’t resort to gimmicks. No quirky twists or trick endings. You’re at the end of your story, and if your reader has stuck with you the whole time, it’s because you’ve engaged her, because she has participated. The final impression you want to create is a positive one. Don’t leave your reader feeling tricked or cheated.

god damn, that  is owenage, best part is it was written unrelated to the issue , but explains it perfectly, well played jassu, well played 

[DrDetective]

....they're no longer listening.

[Thanatos144]

FS3D wrote...

luci90 wrote...

 Wow, this is one committed troll.


Not a very good troll...but still, quite committed.

That's why I reported him. After all, if he's going to troll the forums, we have a right to demand he be stopped. Some of us here are interested in an actual discussion and not a "you're too stupid to get the deep and meaningful endings" type response.

Where did I say that?

[Demon Velsper]

Right. Just like I listen to thunder, I don't actually do anything about it.

[luci90]

FS3D wrote...

luci90 wrote...

 Wow, this is one committed troll.


Not a very good troll...but still, quite committed.

That's why I reported him. After all, if he's going to troll the forums, we have a right to demand he be stopped. Some of us here are interested in an actual discussion and not a "you're too stupid to get the deep and meaningful endings" type response.

Good.
Let's hope something comes of it.

[Jassu1979]

Now, there is such a thing as a good twist ending - yet in order to pull that one off, you need to build it up all along, carefully placing the hints so that the audience can go back and see that the signs were there all along - they simply didn't notice them.

Ironically, the Indoctrination Theory would provide a pretty solid twist ending, as the odd boy was there right from the start, and the weird dream sequences persisted throughout the game.

[PRC_Heavy_Z]

we appreciate everyone's feedback about Mass Efect 3 and want you to know that we are listening.

However, we also would like you to know, we are laughing off all your suggestions and keeping the ending the same. We already have your money and people will buy DLCs even if they hate what has happened. It's not like people will just give up and not buy any more games from us right?

Modifié par PRC_Heavy_Z, 04 avril 2012 - 05:14 .

[akenn312]

PRC_Heavy_Z wrote...

we appreciate everyone's feedback about Mass Efect 3 and want you to know that we are listening.

However, we also would like you to know, we are laughing off all your suggestions and keeping the ending the same. We already have your money and people will buy DLCs even if they hate what has happened. It's not like people will just give up and not buy any more games from us right?

+1

[VisualDima]

IMHO.
The ending of ME3 is about
Reapers and breaking the Cycle.
But the whole game IS NOT
about the Reapers and Cycle. It's about Commander Shepard, the
Normandy. It's about Geth and Quarians make peace. It's about saving
the last Rachni Quin. It's about EDI become real human. About curing
the Genophage..; And more...
We did all this things
during all three parts of the game. Hundreds of hours... And what did
we get in the end? Nothing. The only thing: “The Cycle is broken”.
That's it. All you did before means nothing!
You cure the Genophage?
Fine. Without mass relays Krogans locked on Tuchanka without any
resources to rebuild it. And without Wrex, who can unite them. Now
another nuclear war is inevitable.

Without resources from
colonies, collapsed economy, Earth could not be rebuild in near
future. And the probability of global ecological disaster is very hi.
And did Earth has enough eezo to restore interstellar travels? (There
were no natural source of eezo in Sol system. Only some Prothean
equipment on Mars and cores of remains of space fleets).
Thessia is devastated. Not
sure if enough scientists and engineers survived to preserve the
knowledge.
So everything you did was for nothing!  
We waited for climax, but got the cut-stop. Story just stopped. 

[Blue Liara]

YOU ARE NOT LISTENING. 
If this is true then all this "we value your feedback" and "we are listening" has been a nothing but a bunch of PR nonsense and lies. 
DLC will NOT CHANGE THE ENDING!! NOOOO!!
Don't know if this has been posted already but here is a link to an artcile by the International Buisness times saying that the DLC will NOT change the ending. Seriously Bioware WTF. Let the backlash begin. If they do this I will never give them another penny

www.ibtimes.com/articles/323947/20120404/mass-effect-3-ending-spoilers-dlc-review.htm

[Thanatos144]

VisualDima wrote...

IMHO.
The ending of ME3 is about
Reapers and breaking the Cycle.
But the whole game IS NOT
about the Reapers and Cycle. It's about Commander Shepard, the
Normandy. It's about Geth and Quarians make peace. It's about saving
the last Rachni Quin. It's about EDI become real human. About curing
the Genophage..; And more...
We did all this things
during all three parts of the game. Hundreds of hours... And what did
we get in the end? Nothing. The only thing: “The Cycle is broken”.
That's it. All you did before means nothing!
You cure the Genophage?
Fine. Without mass relays Krogans locked on Tuchanka without any
resources to rebuild it. And without Wrex, who can unite them. Now
another nuclear war is inevitable.

Without resources from
colonies, collapsed economy, Earth could not be rebuild in near
future. And the probability of global ecological disaster is very hi.
And did Earth has enough eezo to restore interstellar travels? (There
were no natural source of eezo in Sol system. Only some Prothean
equipment on Mars and cores of remains of space fleets).
Thessia is devastated. Not
sure if enough scientists and engineers survived to preserve the
knowledge.
So everything you did was for nothing!  
We waited for climax, but got the cut-stop. Story just stopped. 

Think maybe they should do a epilouge? cause I think it would help.

[Jassu1979]

Stygian1 wrote...
Think BioWare forgot this--all of this. 

... provided that the current ending wasn't intended as a red herring all along. It's still hard for me to believe that the people who wrote the rest of the game should have failed so utterly within the last five minutes, especially considering how some odd details throughout the game do point in a different direction.
In short, I have not yet lost faith that we will be pleasantly surprised, and that the proponents of the Indoctrination Theory have divined the signs at least somewhat correctly.

(It reminds me of reading "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince", and wondering whether Snape was actually a traitor.
I re-read the novel before the final volume was published, deliberately checking for clues, and came up with a theory that pretty much matched everything that Rowling revealed in the finale.)

[Archonsg]

garytwine wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

shonefob wrote...

And what if this DLC is huge. Maybe taking our created fleet across the galaxy wiping out the reapers one solar system at a time. Meeting new friends on the way. lol highly unlikely but a boy can hope for something we all know Bioware is capable of.

If this is so, it's a step towards regaining the use of my finger with the instant reaction to clicking the "pre-order now" button, everytime I see a new Bioware product.

But, as is, that finger is offline as far as Bioware/EA is concerned.

Good point. It was never a case of 'Should I pre-order' with Bioware games. Just a matter of fact. Now... I'm not so sure. Pre-order Mass Effect 4? Hmmm. I guess that will depend on what Bioware do with ME 3 DLC.

Mass Effect 4? Hell, that's not even announced yet. 
Talking about stuff like Dragon Age 3, Command and Conquer Generals 2, and yes, Mass Effect 4 when they finally announce it.

Needless to say, any and ALL DLCs are a no go either. If they can do something like this, break so things that made the game great, on thier flagship title no less, what chance do the other titles have?

Bioware screwed up. Period.
Its not about artistic intergrity, its about staying true to the product and staying true to the advertisments you made before sales of said product. 

[Versidious]

Blue Liara wrote...

YOU ARE NOT LISTENING. 
If this is true then all this "we value your feedback" and "we are listening" has been a nothing but a bunch of PR nonsense and lies. 
DLC will NOT CHANGE THE ENDING!! NOOOO!!
Don't know if this has been posted already but here is a link to an artcile by the International Buisness times saying that the DLC will NOT change the ending. Seriously Bioware WTF. Let the backlash begin. If they do this I will never give them another penny

www.ibtimes.com/articles/323947/20120404/mass-effect-3-ending-spoilers-dlc-review.htm

The Mexican PR chap who was interviewed was not only interviewed over a week ago, but it has since been announced that he's not responsible for any up to date press releases (at least, by the official ME3 account on twitter). He's simply toeing the initial line assumed by EA, and you can pretty much ignore what he's said. For now, at least.