23455 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

Yeah I doubt that is gonna fly over very well

[akenn312]

Norrin_Radd wrote...


Oh my, I was actually unaware of that Dark Energy theory. Yeah, I can start to see where the ending has been left too vague. I do agree that there is a hitch at the end, with the Catalyst not really hammering home the core idea. He sort of vaguely says that synthetics rebel against their creators or whatever creating too much chaos. That's the part I really hope they just iron out completely.

I think the original intent was to have a future (non Shepard) ME game to carry that part of the fiction forward (where as Shepard's story was about using the Crucible and sacrificing himself). But with the uproar, I think they have been sobered into having to explain themselves now, instead of later. Which I think is a good thing. And good on them.

But I agree, if they make the wrong choice, they could dump the bed real easy.

Yeah the dark energy thing they canned earlier would have been all about entropy, although great post on the theory and how it could still be worked into the ending. *Hint to Bioware* That would totally make the Mass Relays having to go make sense if you say they were causing the entropy issue.

Unfortunately in the current dialog when the Catylist says that humans creating synthetics is the cycle he has to stop now the only interpretation that is logical is the Catalyst's only reason for doing all this is stopping organics form creating a super AI that will destroy all organic life. 

Actually now that I think about it I still don't see how in any of the choices Shepard has really stopped the cycle of organics from creating a synthetic. With control the cycle continues as it has been, with destroy synthetics are destroyed but not the knowledge to create them, and in syntheses sure you have a man and machine hybrid but they still could create synthetics.

None of the choices stop organics motivation from trying to create new technology that would lead to a super AI. Unless they go into some type of Dune thing where it is sin to create machines in the form of man.

If that's where this is going I might hurl.

Modifié par akenn312, 06 avril 2012 - 12:24 .

[BadboyP12]

Well, we got something, not much, but something. Thanks bioware for at least pretending to listen, and at least making the epilogue free. Unless the "extended cut" is absolutely amazing, I wont be buying any more mass effect products, but I'll keep an open mind for DA3 and C&C Generals. With that said, if you guys do decide to finally realize that the ending as it stands sucks and create dlc that adds more endings, I will be practicaly throwing money at you.

[LiarasShield]

I'm still sure that if drew karpshyn was there things maybe could've turned out differently

[protectmyballs]

Clearly Bioware was not listening.

Mass Effect 3 as a whole was an excellent game but the ending was a complete betrayal of player trust. I don't think a game company owes me anything. In this case however Bioware lied, they told us our decisions throughout the course of the three games would have a meaningful impact on the ending and it did not. If I knew that I would have never, ever purchased the third game.

If I want an artistic thought provoking ending I'll see an art-house movie or read a book. I don't need pompous Darren Aronofsky type ending from a RPG video game that is centered on the premise player choice. If you want to be film makers, quit your jobs at bioware and go do that. Otherwise don't insult your fans with this "clever" rubbish.

Give us a real ending that is consistent with the rest of the franchise or don't even bother. If this is Bioware's new creative direction for the future then I want no part of it. The Critics gave the game high marks but the fans hated it and guess what the fans are the ones who pay your salaries.

Modifié par protectmyballs, 06 avril 2012 - 12:28 .

[The Captainator]

ElPolloDiabloCH wrote...

The ending seems to leave quite some imortant questions open. I'm actualy fine with that though. While I would have loved to kick some reaper ass in the end, I would have hated some corny happy ending. 

In the end, I enjoyed every minute of Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 (yes that includes the ending). It has been one, if not the, greatest media experience I was ever able to enjoy. Thanks to all who made this possible.

This is something I see too little of.

The only bad thing about the ending is that spoiled cry babies who are used to having everythign spoon fed have no idea how to think or use their imagination.

I've read it all, seen videos for any and almost every possible theory and complaint about the game, and I have not found ONE that can not easily be explained.  I finished the game and had to go online to see what all the hubbub was about because I wasn't displeased in the least.  I was sad, yes, but sad because it was over, there was no more to play other than MP.

I'm not going to sit here and give explanations which myself, a simple, non writer, was able to come up with, because that wouldn't work.  Chances are if you're foaming at the mouth now you're not going to stop, because that's who you are.  But if you do want to stop, just accept it for what it is, and try to figure out HOW it could be what it is.

[wraithofblades]

Andy the Black wrote...

OrangeLazarus86 wrote...

Way to listen BioWare. +60k fans and loyal consumers ask for a new ending and you betray us all with Free DLC that only extends the support genocide and nihilism.

We all make mistakes BioWare. We all own up to them, few of us hide behind them like British Petroleum, Bush Administration, the Crusades, OJ Simpson, Hitler, Christopher Columbus, etc.

Just listen to us, stop hiding behind "artistic integrity" because genocide and nihilism are not positive attributes, otherwise Hitler and the events in Rwanda would be justified as being good. We fought against those beliefs.

Holy crap dude. Did you just compare the Mass 3 ending to The Holocaust? I think the ending needs work, but come on thats a bit much.

Yeeeea you just enacted Godwin's Law dude. Way to make any valid point you may have had null and void. Seriously, I'm pissed about all this but ya know what was like the Holocaust? THE HOLOCAUST!

[CDRSkyShepard]

The Captainator wrote...

ElPolloDiabloCH wrote...

The ending seems to leave quite some imortant questions open. I'm actualy fine with that though. While I would have loved to kick some reaper ass in the end, I would have hated some corny happy ending. 

In the end, I enjoyed every minute of Mass Effect 1, 2 and 3 (yes that includes the ending). It has been one, if not the, greatest media experience I was ever able to enjoy. Thanks to all who made this possible.

This is something I see too little of.

The only bad thing about the ending is that spoiled cry babies who are used to having everythign spoon fed have no idea how to think or use their imagination.

I've read it all, seen videos for any and almost every possible theory and complaint about the game, and I have not found ONE that can not easily be explained.  I finished the game and had to go online to see what all the hubbub was about because I wasn't displeased in the least.  I was sad, yes, but sad because it was over, there was no more to play other than MP.

I'm not going to sit here and give explanations which myself, a simple, non writer, was able to come up with, because that wouldn't work.  Chances are if you're foaming at the mouth now you're not going to stop, because that's who you are.  But if you do want to stop, just accept it for what it is, and try to figure out HOW it could be what it is.

No matter how hard I try, I can't explain why Joker would be a jerk/coward, and run off at the last minute when, as far as we know, the rest of the fleet is still fighting in Earth orbit.

I don't pay for games or any other means of entertainment so I can make up my own assumptions about the parts the writers fail to explain. I pay for them because I expect these writers to do their jobs right in the first place. If I wanted to make my own assumptions, I'd write my own stories.

[sth88]

It's crazy.  It's hard to believe.

When fans said they didn't like the Mako sections in ME1, Bioware kept the Mako out of ME2.

They listened.

When fans said they didn't like the long elevator rides in ME1, Bioware kept the elevator out of ME2.

They listened.

When fans said they didn't like the pop-in textures in ME1, Bioware made it a priority to fix it in ME2.

They listened.

When fans said that the inventory leveling systems was too clunky and complex in ME1, Bioware streamlined the process for ME2 and made it much more user friendly.  And when fans said that they swung a bit too far in the other direction, Bioware brought back weapon customization and deepened the leveling system for ME3 while still keeping the user-friendly interface established in the second game.

They listened.

When fans said they wished they could have done more with Liara in ME2, Bioware came out with Lair of the Shadow Broker, a series of missions featuring Liara, developing her character and expanding her role in the overall narrative.

They listened.

And now, we the fans are expressing their frustration over the ending of the trilogy, arguably the most important moment in the narrative of the franchise.  The Bioware forums are flooded with fans who are upset, angry, and depressed, and who feel betrayed or even lied to.  We have organized into a movement and have been petitioning, begging Bioware to give us a new ending.  It has become one of the largest fan outcries in the history of this medium.  We have posted video after video after video, explaining in detail why the events in the ending make no sense in the context of the intricately woven space opera we have come to love, and why it needs to be completely scrapped or somehow retconned and then replaced with something new.

If any developer would listen to its fans in this crucial hour, it's Bioware.  The developer who has faithfully listened to its fans throughout the course of this series.  They have an amazing track record in this area; there's no way they would let us down now, with so much on the line.  Right?

Wrong:

"BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences. The goal of these new scenes is to provide additional clarity and closure to Mass Effect 3."

"Are we going to change the ending of the game? No."

THEY ARE NOT LISTENING.

WHY BIOWARE?  WHY NOW, at this most important moment, when your fans are crying out louder than ever before, when their requests are more desperate than ever before?  You showed you listened to smaller complaints related to gameplay and user interface; why won't you listen when the emotions, trust, and loyalty of your most devoted fans is on the line?  You had so much less to lose when you listened to us before.  You have so much more to lose here!

We know you know how to listen!  You need to listen now!

[iamthedave3]

"We are listening" should be edited to 'We are listening but will ignore you anyway.'

If you are listening, you know full well that this isn't what was asked for.

[No_MSG]

Bioware, weren't you fixing all of the crap that was wrong in Mass Effect: Deception? Why didn't you hold to Artistic Integrity with that, too?

In other news, explaining what happens after I'm railroaded into making one of three baffling choices doesn't really work for me.

[LiarasShield]

The whole galaxy is nearly destroyed and the fleets are left inspace and will mostly likely starve to death or kill each other it is just as bad as the holocaust or even worse U_u

[CDRSkyShepard]

No_MSG wrote...

Bioware, weren't you fixing all of the crap that was wrong in Mass Effect: Deception? Why didn't you hold to Artistic Integrity with that, too?

In other news, explaining what happens after I'm railroaded into making one of three baffling choices doesn't really work for me.

It's because a third-party writer who didn't work for them effed up their baby, that's why.

Now it's their own darned fault, and they're digging in their heels.

[Jordan_Rannoch]

Umm.....If thats your idea of clouser, THEN, 99.9% percent of your fans have simply FLIPPED OFF your insignia and are praying you go BANKRUPED!!!

[LiarasShield]

They just aren't will to suck the **** up and admit they made a mistake and fix it the lies prelaunch where already bad enough bioware I'm surprised people can't sue for lieing about what was suppose to be in the game that even guys yourselves have promised

[luci90]

wraithofblades wrote...

Andy the Black wrote...

OrangeLazarus86 wrote...

Way to listen BioWare. +60k fans and loyal consumers ask for a new ending and you betray us all with Free DLC that only extends the support genocide and nihilism.

We all make mistakes BioWare. We all own up to them, few of us hide behind them like British Petroleum, Bush Administration, the Crusades, OJ Simpson, Hitler, Christopher Columbus, etc.

Just listen to us, stop hiding behind "artistic integrity" because genocide and nihilism are not positive attributes, otherwise Hitler and the events in Rwanda would be justified as being good. We fought against those beliefs.

Holy crap dude. Did you just compare the Mass 3 ending to The Holocaust? I think the ending needs work, but come on thats a bit much.

Yeeeea you just enacted Godwin's Law dude. Way to make any valid point you may have had null and void. Seriously, I'm pissed about all this but ya know what was like the Holocaust? THE HOLOCAUST!

OK. Everybody needs to calm down about the holocaust.
I don't think that was the point there.

[jeweledleah]

Norrin_Radd wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

@ Norrin - its a fascinating theory with just one problem. it doesn't really fit the mood of the rest of the game. Mass Effect was never sold as a psychological thriller. it was an action adventure, a space opera. Everything else in all 3 games, including some of the more difficult decisions, are relatively straight forward with all the consequences and reasons spelled out. even the nature of person-hood, is discussed with very demonstrative examples. its geared to push emotional buttons, to pull on heartstrings all the while getting our adrenaline pumping. the depth comes from character interactions, not overall story.

in short, I think you are giving bioware far too much credit, aka you are overanalyzing the esoteric implications. just like folks who came up with indoctrination theory, are over-analyzing. bioware is not that subtle. to put it mildly.

and if synthesis was a correct answer, why include Shepard breathes scene for people who gain extra 1200 (or 2200 if they miss persuasion check) EMS? not to mention... with minimum EMS, you don't get the synthesis. you get destroy if you destroyed the base? or control if you kept it. crucible.. apparently, changes catalyst in very video gamey ways.

True, I am stretching a lot for my theories here. But every since that first conversation with Sovereign in ME1, I have felt that the purpose of the Reapers has to be on a level that is higher than a simple organics vs life conflict. Time will still tell (I guess we'll see in the summer DLC). I guess it's my fault for reading too many Silver Surfer comics as a kid, and watching every TTC seminar on Cosmology, Astrophysics and Particle Physics I could find) but I am just all too ready to accept the most sciency cosmic answers, hehe.

I agree, the last little bit in the end, with Shepard (are we sure it's Shepard, and not Coates?) breathing is insanely confusing. Perhaps Bioware has not only given you the literal 3 choice ending, but also, a choice on whether or not Shepard was indoctrinated in top of those, witht he breathing ending? So, 4 choices? In the indoctrinated version, maybe that means the reapers win, so it's actually the worst solution?

There were versions of ME2's ending where Shepard is dead. Those are obviously not Canon. So it's very possible that most of the endings in ME3 are not Canon either, but rather, the conclusion tou your own Shepard?

honestly, I never really thought it was organics vs synthetics conflict, not with reapers anyways.  ever since that first conversation, I thought that reapers were gardners.  feeding on organic life, growing it to their specifications, for best nutritional output.  so to speak.  for reapers, it didn't really seem to be any conflict.  we saw it as conflict, becasue we were the ones exterminated.  reapers?  they didn't much care.  Maybe its my lovecraft showing, but even their form, the references to old gods in ME2..  I just kept getting this impression of beings who viewed organic life as fodder at best, neuance to be used.

as far as sciency answers, this is probably my forays into pharmacy degree showing, but synthesis ending just doesnt make sence to me, biologicaly speaking.  Even reaper smoothies were stretching it, but at least I could explain it away as sort of chemical reaction, converting one type of materai into another.  synthesis though?  Shepard doesn't have mixed DNA.  Shepard is organic with a whole lot of synthetic prostetics.  how would throwing Shepard into that beam somehow make it convert all DNA, all the variations of it across so many different species, not to mention plants into a synthetic hybrid, all the while preserving their phenotype other then superficial green overlay, as well as their personalities...  not to mention - does it mean we no longer breed, profress in any way.. I cannot see it stopping conflict, and I cannot see it stopping entropy.

last but not least, if some of the endings are not "canon" that that goes directly against, I think it was Mike Gamble who said something about there being no "best" or ultimate answers?

honestly, judging by everything that we've heard so far.. there is no deeper meaning to the endings.  you can chose to be Saren, TIM, or do what you set out to do in a first place - destroy threat once and for all. with some collateral damage.  destroy the galaxy as we know it (relays blow up in all 3 endings).  die a martyr.  for those who don't like that - there's a little breathing clip - you should feel hope at that and happiness, Shepard lived.  watch some soldiers on earth cheer, as reapers die/fly away (yay war is over) and watch your best friend and your LI, survive and come out of the Normandy safely.  should be happy at that too, naturaly.

I relaly think they wanted it to be that simple and taken at face value.  they forgot that Mass Effect is played by science fiction nerds, not just shooter fans.

[GIEV DIZ PEEPHOLE AEYR]

:-/ <------------ my reaction to the "new cinema" we will be getting. at least its free. if it sucks? well...........then im done. already cancelled old republic sub.

[LiarasShield]

lieing to fans and the gaming community I'm thinking a giant lawsuit should've happend because isn't lying about a product a crime hmmm I wonder...

[luci90]

 You know the latest vgcats strip?
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

[Reptilian Rob]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

Bioware, weren't you fixing all of the crap that was wrong in Mass Effect: Deception? Why didn't you hold to Artistic Integrity with that, too?

In other news, explaining what happens after I'm railroaded into making one of three baffling choices doesn't really work for me.

It's because a third-party writer who didn't work for them effed up their baby, that's why.

Now it's their own darned fault, and they're digging in their heels.

Hypocrisy at it's finest. 

[Canis_Major]

I hope Bioware kicks me in the ass with an astounding DLC...

But i suspect that you are not listening, but HEARING some weird noise that you just don't understand, Bioware.

[LiarasShield]

Pax is gonna be a laugh if they honestly think me fans are just gonna let them off the hook and not doing anything they have a rude awakening ahead

[CDRSkyShepard]

sth88 wrote...

It's crazy.  It's hard to believe.

When fans said they didn't like the Mako sections in ME1, Bioware kept the Mako out of ME2.

They listened.

When fans said they didn't like the long elevator rides in ME1, Bioware kept the elevator out of ME2.

They listened.

When fans said they didn't like the pop-in textures in ME1, Bioware made it a priority to fix it in ME2.

They listened.

When fans said that the inventory leveling systems was too clunky and complex in ME1, Bioware streamlined the process for ME2 and made it much more user friendly.  And when fans said that they swung a bit too far in the other direction, Bioware brought back weapon customization and deepened the leveling system for ME3 while still keeping the user-friendly interface established in the second game.

They listened.

When fans said they wished they could have done more with Liara in ME2, Bioware came out with Lair of the Shadow Broker, a series of missions featuring Liara, developing her character and expanding her role in the overall narrative.

They listened.

And now, we the fans are expressing their frustration over the ending of the trilogy, arguably the most important moment in the narrative of the franchise.  The Bioware forums are flooded with fans who are upset, angry, and depressed, and who feel betrayed or even lied to.  We have organized into a movement and have been petitioning, begging Bioware to give us a new ending.  It has become one of the largest fan outcries in the history of this medium.  We have posted video after video after video, explaining in detail why the events in the ending make no sense in the context of the intricately woven space opera we have come to love, and why it needs to be completely scrapped or somehow retconned and then replaced with something new.

If any developer would listen to its fans in this crucial hour, it's Bioware.  The developer who has faithfully listened to its fans throughout the course of this series.  They have an amazing track record in this area; there's no way they would let us down now, with so much on the line.  Right?

Wrong:

"BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences. The goal of these new scenes is to provide additional clarity and closure to Mass Effect 3."

"Are we going to change the ending of the game? No."

THEY ARE NOT LISTENING.

WHY BIOWARE?  WHY NOW, at this most important moment, when your fans are crying out louder than ever before, when their requests are more desperate than ever before?  You showed you listened to smaller complaints related to gameplay and user interface; why won't you listen when the emotions, trust, and loyalty of your most devoted fans is on the line?  You had so much less to lose when you listened to us before.  You have so much more to lose here!

We know you know how to listen!  You need to listen now!

Exactly. EXACTLY this.

I LOVED how they listened to us about the leveling and gameplay systems. The gameplay in ME3 was top-notch (well, with the exception of sticking to cover everywhere like glue and the roll mechanism being too streamlined with the cover mechanism), in terms of combat, customization, and leveling up. It was streamlined enough not to be obnoxious, and complex enough to still make it feel like an RPG.

Now they're not listening to us on the endings. At all. You can do awesome things when you listen to what the fans want, BioWare...now you're hearing us, but not listening!

[stellap20]

I am interested to see what they could possibly say at PAX today??