23455 réponses à ce sujet

[HooblaDGN]

Missing the shot on purpose with Garrus. Grunt's charge. Mordrin's sacrifice. Tali telling Legion that he DOES have a soul. Music throughout is great. The Ash healing storyline.

But my favorite was when Liara brings the archive to you. An admission that this MIGHT all go wrong, and what I felt was Liara trying to cope with that as productively as she could.

That moment's beauty makes the immutability of the ending so much worse.

Because I would not be so ashamed with the ending if the rest wasn't so good.

Modifié par HooblaDGN, 15 mars 2012 - 06:54 .

[Skyblade012]

Agremont2 wrote...

I really can't believe you didn't expect this kind of reaction to the ending. I mean, it must have been seen as at least one possible reaction. It is all so obvious that fans would be angry or dissapointed.

I know I would've gladly waited another year for a proper ending.

It was forseen.  Casey Hudson said it was exactly what they wanted.  He wanted the ending to "make an impact".  Not to be good, or for people to enjoy it, just for it to be talked about and to have an impact on the players.

And I have to admit, there is no better way to do that than a complete betrayal of a franchise.

[Bachuck]

Chris Priestly wrote...
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

This is one of the most blatant attempts at deflecting a topic I've ever seen. Unfortunately, a lot of posters have fallen for it too.

Modifié par Bachuck, 15 mars 2012 - 06:46 .

[Godwhacker]

My favourite part? Saying farewell prayers with Thane and Kolyat. Genuinely touching. Also Garrus and Tali in the forward battery.

But...

I don't think there's going to be a good outcome to shipping the game with that ending, to be honest. Either it was the real ending to the game, in which case it was lazy, mawkish, nonsensical, and insulting; or it wasn't, in which case Bioware have deliberately upset their fans in order to sell more DLC- and they have to use the "it was all a dreaaaaam!" excuse. 

You know, the one your English teacher told you never, ever to use.

Modifié par Godwhacker, 15 mars 2012 - 06:45 .

[Faraborne]

I posted the following posts in another forum (the one Stanley Woo was directing people to previously) and in my narcissistic ways hoping that in some small manner I can help effect a change, I decided to repost them here--apparently this is the 'official' thread now.

As I follow people's complaints upon this board and several others, I've found certain themes and have noticed that there is not one overriding problem with the endings; however, several different problems which compound into one cluster of what I can only describe as very porr writing.

First, I'd like to address the inconsistency of the narrative style. I have delved deeply into this subject previously on this thread, but I will address it again here. Mass Effect's theme has consistently been twofold: fatalistic determinism vs free willing self-determination AND overcoming impossible/insurmountable odds with perseverance, sacrifice, and determination. Furthtermore, the villian/antagonist of Mass Effect has always been the Reapers and their agenda. Suddenly, within the last few minutes of Mass Effect we are suddenly introduced to a character known as the Guardian, who can only be described as the mastermind of the Reapers. Therefore, if there were concistency within the narrative style, Shepherd would oppose as his mortal enemy. However, Shepherd seems to tacitly accept the Guardian's fatalistic approach with little to no argument (which is also totally uncharacterisitc of Commander Shepherd Paragon or Renegade). Furthermore, the Guardian asserts that the theme of Mass Effect is not what the writers had woven into the first two games (fatalistic determination vs free willing self-determination); rather, it was synthetics vs organics (ala Battlestar Galactica). While there is nothing wrong with that theme per se, it is entirely out of place within Mass Effect. At best, it is a minor conflict/theme which is for all intents and purposes resolved in ME3 before the final battle (End of Geth war, personhood of EDI). Therefore, the player is forced to accept--within the final minutes of the game--the following: a radical change in theme, an assertion that is contradictory to events in ME3, and a complete change in character for Commander Shepherd. This is a problem.

Secondly, disgruntled players have a problem with glaring plotholes in the final moments of ME3. I shall address these in chronological order from Harbinger's attack on. During Harbinger's beam attack, since no mention is made of your squadmates (who may also include your LI as was my case), one can only assume that they were just killed. During my playthrough, I was not able to care about any fate of Earth or being on the Citadel because I was so focused on the fate of my LI.

Next, where did the Crucible come from again? If does not make sense that all of the enemies of the Reapers worked on a device with no help from the Guardian that ultimately fits perfectly within the Guardian's plan. This plot point seems very forced and unclear.

Furthermore with the Guardian, if that entity resides within the Citadel; its existence must be dependent upon the Citadel. Why didn't Shepherd think to tell Admiral Hackett to simply use the Crucible to destroy the Citadel? Thus, the leader and controller of the Reapers would be wiped out leaving them lost and confused, likely causing a full retreat/shut down of the Reapers due to their prime directive being torn from them. This also seems much more concistent with Shepherd's character to never give up and find some way to exploit the enemy's oversights.

The next plothole is that of the destruction of the Mass Relays. For those that played the Arrival DLC, you know that the destruction of a Mass Relay is equivalent to a Star going Super Nova. In addition, from high school science and Arrival you know that a Super Nova will obliterate all things within roughly a lightyear of the event. Every single civilization and colony in the Galaxy would therefore be within the destruction path of the Mass Relay's demise. Therefore, if the science of Mass Effect were consistent: Earth, Tuchanka, Rannoch, Palaven, Thessia, Sur'Kesh, etc all would have been obliterated. This cannot in anyway be perceiver as a bittersweet ending.

And now, the plothole of the Normandy's mad dash. First, why was Joker on a mad dash to nowhere? This is entirely inconcistent with Joker's character to run away from helping Shepherd and fighting the battle. And due to the previous plothole, there seems to be no danger in sticking close to Earth. So why was Joker running? Plothole. Similarly, (for this plothole I will use my personal experience but it sounds like many people shared a similar one) how did Ashley Williams and Garrus end up back on the Normandy so that they could walk off of it with Joker? Last assumption I made about my two squadmates back on Earth was that they were killed by Harbinger. Furthermore, their means of transport back to the Normandy (the Kodiak shuttle) was destroyed early on in the battle. Am I supposed to assume that Joker left the space battle and landed in the middle of a warzone just to pick up Shepherd's miraculoulsly alive squadmates? Very forced....unacceptably forced.

Finally, I address the Shepherd's breath scene. Assuming that in the most illogical, forced, and downright silly way Shepherd managed to survive the the crumbling of the Citadel. where is he? Are we to assume that Citadel still has life support? But what about the destruction of the Mass Relays? Hasn't it been established that with consistent storytelling Earth would have been destroyed by the blowing up Mass Relay. I'm sorry, for me this plothole is the worst of all.

More information forthcoming--enough for one post.

[Darkwulfjj]

My favorite part of the game was Legion's sacrifice to share his code with the rest of the Geth, to make them more "Human" I guess you could say, which is why I hate the endings so much none of them fit with Shephard's decisions.

Come on kill the Geth, who you just saved?
Become a Reaper, which you have spent the whole game fighting, really?
Create a new super race?  Does not even sound right.

And no follow up, could go on but by now I am sure Bioware has read enough about how bad the ending was.

[spacefiddle]

majinbuu1307 wrote...

EVERYONE PLEASE READ THIS! The Reapers where found out to have their own code, Legion knows and confirms this. When you meet the Catalyst, I wish for DLC content of Paragon and Renegade option in the last dialogue wheel. The paragon option would talk about shutting off only the reaper code.

It's ok, this and a bajillion other plot holes are known and discussed.  At this point it's less about the plot holes in the final sequence - many are starting to suspect they will be pretty easily explained, but that's for other threads - at this point, it's the mishandling of this whole fiasco that's really casuing problems.

If the ID or similar theories are correct, then the game would have been perfect *if it was included in the game I was sold, and told to expect,* and none of this would EVER have happened.  There is really no way around that.

[Xerkysz]

JulienJaden wrote...

everything after teleporting to the Citadel, is unacceptable and needs an overhaul. 

Because you're not actually on the Citadel, you're experiencing the indoctrination effects of the Reaper that's right beside you, as you lay unconcious in the midst of rubble, in London.

[Treavor647]

The game was great up until the point i got Trolled by the ending. If i had to pick a favorite part of the game it would have to be shooting Udina. i have been wanting to do that since Mass Effect 1

[Tony Redgrave]

Crimson Butterfly wrote...

 The endings were truly ruinous. I have no desire to go back a revisit the universe, which translates to no interest in DLC or merchandise. I wasn't expecting Shepard to survive, I was expecting a hard choice whose chances of success were dependant on (some of) my decisions during the game.

Instead, we were presented with circular logic that not only demystified the supposedly unknowable Reapers, but made them look, to be blunt, stupid. If you set a creature up to have motives beyond the mortal ken, don't then explain them. You'll never do them justice. 

We were shown a Shepard, who after everything (s)he had done, fought and bled for, gives up and mutely accepts the word of the being in control of the monsters (s)he's spent years fighting against. The one who is ultimately responsible for all the deaths that Shepard laments. What's more it inexplicably does it in the form of the child who represents to Shepard all the lives that (s)he couldn't save, and yet that doesn't provoke any reaction at all.

A Shepard, who after brokering peace and alliance between the Geth and the Quarians, doesn't think to point out of a window and say "hey, wait a minute. Look out there, synthetics and organics, allies. More than that, sharing a homeworld and rebuilding a society, together." We spend a significant portion of the game resolving the Geth and Quarian issue and we can't so much as mention it when told that synthetics will always destroy their creators? We can't bring up the fact that the Geth only became actively hostile in the past few years because Sovereign manipulated them into it?

We were given a Normandy/Joker that inexplicably flees from the battle, accompanied by the rest of your team (even those who had been by your side on Earth), despite standing by Shepard through thick and thin. Joker, who knows Shepard can do the impossible, who brought him and the Normandy back from a suicide mission. 

I get that you were going for a dark ending. A dark ending should be one of the options. But we've spent years, in character and out, with a (wo)man who can do the impossible. Who succeeds, often beyond all expectations, when (s)he shouldn't. A Shepard who stopped Saren, barring Reapers from their usual easy and inevitable win by preventing them from controlling the relay network. A Shepard who set out on a suicide mission and defied the odds, not only surviving, but for many gamers, bringing everyone else back, too. A Shepard who united a galaxy, ending conflicts that have lasted hundreds, if not thousands of years, and built an armada the likes of which has never been seen.

Yes, there was always going to be a price to pay. But the person choosing what that price is the same person who has always had the ability to pull astonishing success from the jaws of ultimate defeat. (S)He has never helplessly accepted the inevitable.

To deny that at the climax of the series, no matter how hard you worked during the course of the games, is a slap in the face. There's no hope in the destruction of the relays. There's the devastating realisation that the fleet you worked so hard to build is trapped in a system that has no resources left, orbiting a planet that is likely devasted beyond rescue. That the quarians and turians in the fleet will probably starve to death. That the krogan, without Wrex to unite them, will once again fall into eternal conflict as they overpopulate Tuchunka. That your crew, stranded wherever they are, will suffer from starvation (Garrus and Tali) or a disturbingly inbred colony.

It's dark and grim for the sake of being dark and grim, not because it actually makes sense within the core themes of the game. Anyone who knows a little bit about the universe can see where the destruction of the relays would lead, and it's not to a potentially good place. It leads to untold suffering and ruined civilisations - many of which are the ones I spend a good portion of this game repairing. Never mind the fact I spent the entire game uniting the galaxy under one banner, just to fragment it again.

What did I enjoy? It's hard to tell. It all felt pointless, after that.

Well said.

Modifié par Spaz85, 15 mars 2012 - 06:46 .

[Alesea]

Garrus without suite will be the best moment of ME3. Oh, and another ending of course, with live Shep and crew and Garrus

[majinbuu1307]

Painis Cupcake wrote...

majinbuu1307 wrote...

Xerkysz wrote...

Inc Wall of Text, clearing up, and clarifying what Painis Cupcake realised.

If you choose Control, then you, the player -- the one who moves through the game though Shepard's eyes; every choice s/he has ever made in the game has been directly because of you -- have been indoctrinated. It mayhave been because you thought you could save your crew, your LI, or that you really could gain perfect Control over the Reapers because you are Shepard. Regardless, you have been duped. Indoctrinated by the game.Your slow exposure to the Reapers in 2007 culminates to this final choice -- complete and free player agency and determination.



If you choose Synthesis, you face a fate similar to that of Control. It's debatable to me at this point as to whether or not you have chosen to fulfill the Reapers' purpose, but indoctrination is still a heavy possibility with this one. The only reason that I state this with any certainty is because, like the ending we see with Control, Shepard is dead at the final credits.



If you choose Destroy, then the Player Indoctrination Theory submits that this is you, the player, deciding whether or not Shepard overcomes the indoctrination attempt being rained upon him/her by Harbinger/the Catalyst. If you decide this option, and if you have enough EMS to ensure that Shepard has enough real-world time to get through the indoctrination attempt/hallucination -- Shepard lives. We see him/her breathing in the rubble of London streets at the end of the game. Shepard has defied indoctrination. You, yourself, have defied indoctrination.



Does this theory make sense? Maybe not. When we consider BioWare's real-world motivations and risks (profit, losing a large fanbase over the disgusting wretchedness of the endings as they currently exist), then the theory is hard to support. But if, for just one moment, we can let ourselves believe that BioWare may just have lived up to their celebrated philiosophy of Player Choice and Player Acutalization, then this theory becomes awe-inspiring. Is it possible? Could BioWare have sacrificed the potential for safe profits in order to bring the most insane and beautiful gaming experience of all time to its fans? The most unprecedented example of player immersion of our times? Would BioWare have truly allowed the risk for profit and angering a serious amount of their fan population in pure deference to the story, and its lore?



It may explain BioWare's silence on the matter, until "more people have played the game", or until all regions have the game. It may explain Jess M.'s twitter about fans "reacting before having all of the facts". It may.... just may explain these super sh*tty endings in a way that would make BioWare the God of RPGs.

I can't buy the indoctrination. Too many problems, you don't dream when indoctrinated, you see what is going on, you are just influenced otherwise, hence why you can get ilusive man to shoot himself, or saren. They fought it, they didn't dream and then end up in their bed when they woke up. If your indoctrinated and choosing destroy to wake up and your back on earth and "breathe" theres still the slight problem of the reapers being alive. And you dreamed the relays being blown up? Makes no sense. No, wasn't indoctrinated, he was however fighting indoctrination while near the ilusive man, who was himself indoctrinated(hence the black weird stuff on the screen making you shoot anderson once.)

Then how do you explain him waking up in the rubble if you choose the destroy option? The citadel explodes, the blast alone would obliterate shepard if he survived the first blast from destroying synthetics. If he survived that, he'd be hurtling back towards the planet. There's no air in space and he'd suffocate, and falling into the atmosphere at a fast enough velocity would send any object on fire. If he somehow survived entry, the force and velocity of impacting the ground would leave any body in nothing more than a nice gooey and bloody spot all over the ground. If he survived that too, he better be Chuck Norris or else Bioware has some explaining to do...

Otherwise, the Indoctrination Theory is solid, especially if he dreamed everything after surviving Harbinger's attack.

Then they made an unfinished game and Harbinger is still right in front of him. No way. Don't reach for straws, they messed up, didn't think alot of things through, why is normandy fleeing? no way would joker just in the middle of battle head for the relay(that would take a bit of time to get to btw to he fled early.) That, and my team mate who was with me on the run to the beam was magically aboard the normandy at the end. They just plain messed up.  please youtube the video mass effect 3 ending and why we hate it

[thefallen0412]

I agree with everyone else who said that the rest of the game was amazing.  It only let us down in the very end. 

If the real endings are real, I would like to know why control (what the illusive man wanted) or synthesis (what Saren wanted) are good endings to the series? 

Anyway, if you were to ask me about the game before I finished it, I would of told you it was the best story in any media form that I have ever experenced.

[Faraborne]

The most universal complaint with the ending of Mass Effect 3 is the lack of closure. Many fans, myself included, probably could have forgiven inconcistent narrative style and glaring plotholes; but none of us can look beyond and ignore the complete lack of closure given to the characters we have come to know and love in Mass Effect.

Let me preface by saying that I (and like many other players) never expected a complete "happy ending" to Mass Effect. We all knew there would be casualities, in fact we expected and hoped for this! You cannot defeat the Reapers easily. I personally think the genocidal scale of the game was more than sufficient for this, but I can understand the writers wanting to stretch the limits and make the ending even more emotionally jarring.

Unfortunately, the writers didn't make the ending more bittersweet or emotionally jarring, just hollow, annoying, and depressing. Instead of pointing out errors in the writing, for this problem I think it is more effective to suggest possible solutions and then feel out the response from other fans.

First, simply include a text style epilogue. This would answer very simply (not sufficiently but a little) the fate of the characters we have grown emotionally connected with. What happened to Grunt? Was he killed on Earth? Did Jack keep her students alive? Were Miranda and Oriana able to each find a life after Cerberus? Did Admiral Hackett survive? Are Garrus and Shepherd going to share that drink at the bar in the sky? Will the Quarians return to Rannoch since the Mass Relays are destroyed? What is the fate of Palaven, Thessia, Tuchanka, etc?

If these were questions you were planning to address in DLC...well that is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard if that's the case.

Next, I'd like to address the lack of closure with your love interest. (I chose to continue my romance with Ashley Williams so I cannot speak to the other characters...feedback if my feelings are consistent and universal would be appreciated) The final bit of dialogue with Ashley Williams on Earth was incredibly moving and gave me the motivation to turn the Galaxy over, face a Reaper mono y mono, walk to the very gates of Hell and emerge again, etc just to get back to Ashley Williams. Strangely, I was prepared (and though it would have been heart-wrenching it would have been satisfying) for Ashley Williams to die. However, if this path was chosen, it should have been played up and made very clear for it to achieve full emotional impact. Instead, I was forced to assume Ashley had been killed by Harbinger with absolutely no confirmation or denial. Frankly, during the entire confrontation with the Ilussive Man on the Citadel, I couldn't have cared less about what he was saying I was so singularly focused on the fate of Ashley Williams. Though many people be surprised by this, I was prepared and ok with Shepherd's death, even Ashley Williams death. However, I can never be okay with complete lack of closure on this point. Furthermore, not putting this in the final cut of the game is inexcusable.

But wait! There's more! Guess what she's not dead! She just walked off the ship practically hand-in-hand with Joker and smiling about being marooned on a jungle planet. Now they're going to go populate said jungle paradise.

Excuse me...

RRRRRRAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGEEEEEEE MODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrr ack ack ack ack *puke guts up* WWWWHHHHHAAAAATTTT????????????

Ok, I'm composed again. Need I say more.

Yes I do. Forgetting that this plot point is sickeningly forced and filled with so many holes (as established previously) it is entirely out of character with Ashley Williams. She stated repeatedly how she already lost Commander Shepherd and she couldn't live without him. The can only think of two likely responses Ashley Williams would have to the end situation. One, she dies trying to make it to the Citadel refusing to return to the Normandy. Or, upon arriving at the jungle planet and realizing Shepherd's death, she puts her own gun to her head and pulls the trigger.

If Bioware wanted Shepherd to die--and possibly his love interest--why not have both of them make it to the Citadel where Shepherd's LI would choose to die with Shepherd in his sacrifice. I would be able to look beyond all of my previous problems with the ending if this were the case. I doubt everyone will share my sentiment, but that alone would have been a sufficient amount of closure for me.

I'm sure I cannot speak universally on the lack of closure the fans feel from ME3 but I hope this post can help all fans and Bioware understand how lacking the end of ME3 really is.

This one was a bit more emotionally charged, but this is intentional since this post addresses the emotional response to the endings.

[Getorex]

rockman0 wrote...

One of my favorite moments came right before the last 15 minutes. Bear with me, I'm not trying to be sarcastic.

The part where you get to talk to all of your squaddies through the years and say your final farewells. You guys perfected that moment. It really made me think back to all of the past games. I actually teared up during those moments. And the music in the background? Perfection.

DING! 

The only downers in the batch were Wrex and Samara.  Wrex because his chat with you was fairly impersonal and flippant.  Samara because it is like talking to a vulcan - no emotion, just a detached handful of words. 

Ash, Grunt, Tali, Liara, Garrus in particular were perfect.  And I too felt the years and "shared experience" of the moment.    

[Alraiis]

An ending like we saw would have been right at home in many science-fiction stories. It might have even worked here if it had been set up better. But it wasn't. Everything leading up to the end was a thrilling buildup to this final do-or-die moment. The speeches at the end, the final conversations with your squad... and then it twists—too sharply or too late, I don't know which, but it wasn't executed well at all. It wasn't the ending to the story Bioware had been writing, it was another ending to another type of story. I'm all for breaking the mold of the monomyth or the traditional action-movie conclusions, but that type of ending wasn't established and wasn't earned in this story.

The game is filled with amazing moments, though. The journey was fantastic; the destination, however, was too far off the road we traveled.

[Lestatman]

My favourite moment is this thread.  Maybe I'm cynical but it seems an attempt to get people talking about their favourite moments rather than focusing on the ending in the hope that they'll forget all about it and the hope of polarizing people so you can claim that the ending has polarized gamers.

[quote]MustacheManatee wrote...

[quote]Kyrick wrote...

[/quote]

Why would anybody who had legitimate questions and concerns bother engaging in whatever you feel 'healthy' discussions are?  Bioware has, since this whole brouhaha commenced, done nothing but denigrate and mock anybody who felt (or feels) upset about the ending of this game and series.  Instead of releasing a statement declaring your intentions and answering the simple question of whether or not the ending was legit or something different with more to come, you have all danced around the issue and further enraged and depressed people.

Whatever you think 'healthy' discussion is, you're certainly not bothering to engage in it.  You're mocking the community with coy little posts.

And don't pretend that saying, "Yes, the ending is the actual ending" or "No, the ending is not the actual ending and there is more to come" is giving away 'spoilers'.  It's mentioning nothing of the content whatsoever and only using generalities that only people who've played the game through (or who have read the spoilers already) would know anything about.

While I think there is more coming, I feel that you at Bioware have handled this beyond badly.  You've messed with people's emotions and expectations.  This, in itself, isn't that terrible if you deal with it relatively quickly.  But you've all allowed people to get and stay upset for a very long time period.  You've actively harmed yourselves and your brand name with this.  I personally know three people that flatly refuse to support Bioware any longer, and these are people who've been with you (as I have) from the Baldur's Gate days.  They're not upset at the game's ending (or lack thereof) so much as they are your attitudes toward the community during this whole mess.  Two of them have canceled subscriptions to TOR in point of fact, simply because they 'refuse to commit to a company willing to deceive their consumers and make fun of their concerns.'  

I don't mention things like this to change your minds or anything.  You likely don't even read posts like this, if your continued attitudes are any indication.  I simply post in the (maybe vain) hope that, at some point, somebody from Bioware will see this and stop to ponder how they've handled this mess.  Will the two guildies from TOR I'm friends with come back?  Nope.  These are people who've not touched another SOE game since the Galaxies flim-flammery, up to and including the present day.  They simply stopped supporting the company.

At some point, apologies and protestations of 'But it was all for artistic merit!!!' cease being appropriate guys.  Myself, I've set a deadline of PAX.  If I've not heard anything about the endings up to that point, I'll be pulling the plug alongside my ex-guildies and friends, for the very same reasons.  I'm willing to give you a bit more leeway, but the more time passes, the more aggrieved I become at this whole mess.

I'm not sure what possessed you all to handle this in this fashion, without communicating to the community what is happening for so very long.  Whatever the reason is has ceased to become relevant however.  There are some people and customers that you've lost over it.  I know, I know, a couple people don't really matter to your bottom line.  You likely don't care.  That, in and of itself, indicates that you're a whole lot different than the Bioware that operated only a short drive from where I worked in Edmonton.  It's a shame that you've seemingly changed from a company that cared about its customers to one that, seemingly, sits back and laughs at the negative emotions you've provoked in your audience while letting them stew in those emotions.

Yeah, you'll say you're not laughing and you're collecting feedback and all the other things a company says when they try to avoid damage.  But actions speak louder than words and, in this case, your actions have spoken quite loudly indeed.

Signed,
A concerned and somewhat sad customer.

[/quote]

Well said. I gurantee everyone at Bioware is scrambling to get out their "Truth" DLC. Probably planned to release it in a couple of months, but now it needs to be released ASAP!

And it had better be free. . . 

[/quote]

[Swisspease]

Conspicuous Cake wrote...

AlexanderHO85 wrote...

MaYtriX wrote...

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...

Xyalon wrote...

vigna wrote...

zarnk567 wrote...

SassyJazRzmataz wrote...

Xarathos wrote...

Getorex wrote...

Show of virtual hands...how many of you have a handful (or more) of potential Shepards that you originally intended to import into ME3 but now wont all because of the ending?

My hand is raised.

Raised... 

Same. 

(raises hand)

Raises hand....

Raises hand for all current and future shepards.

*raises hand*

Add me too.

Raises hand

My hands are so raised.

Raising my hands, but not yet my Shepards

[TheRealMithril]

Chuck Norris doesn't discuss with Reaper kids, he delivers the law.

[Faraborne]

This was my initial reaction (I put these in backwards? oh well...)


I'm going to play writer here (just a short background that I'm a philosopher which may give me a small portion of authority...maybe), but the biggest problem with the ending was its inconsistency with the rest of the series. The defining point of Mass Effect has always been the player's ability to help determine the outcome by their decisions/choices. In the end, you find that none of your choices mattered. I played as a paragon through all three games (and all DLC) and found that the ending wouldn't have been any different if I had played as a renegade all throughout. My galactic readiness level in ME3 was beyond maxed out, and that didn't matter. I remained loyal to Ashley Williams, but it turns out there is absolutely no closure given to that romance (except her somehow magically appearing back on the Normandy though I thought she was killed by Harbinger--oh! and her walking beside Joker and Vega only seems to imply the three of them restart humanity on jungle planet...I'd prefer the Reapers killing everyone to that!).

Ultimately, the biggest inconsistency is narrative style. I played ME1 and ME2 so many times over because I knew that no matter how many causalities there were, no matter how much loss, pain, suffering, and sacrifice the characters had to endure--all life would endure! Free will is the ability of living beings to stare in the face of evolution and spit in its eye. For the strong one to say: "No, I choose to protect and defend the weak, not dominate them." Its the ability for someone with a soul to stand before all the forces of evil/death and say "I defy you." This was ME1 and ME2. The ending of ME3 turns this right around and says: "Sorry, no. Thanks for playing but the universe is entirely determined. Screw your free will. No, life cannot endure. You cannot stand before death and defy him." (Oh and even if you dress it up as a child, the catalyst is still pure evil at its core)

Furthermore, the writers also departed from another tenet of the Mass Effect Universe. Character driven story-telling. The writers have consistently stated that the conflicts in Mass Effect are too large, their scale to enormous to grasp on just the weight of themselves. Therefore, to allow the player to empathize with the plight of the galaxy, they presented the situations through microcosms within specific characters. Where was this in the end? Suddenly, all of the characters Shepherd grew to love were decidedly absent in the end. So not only is Bioware saying you have no free will, you are ultimately alone in this universe. This is why we all find the ending so depressing. Stories should serve the purpose to inspire us toward ideals. We don't need to be told how much life sucks. If I wanted to know how bad war is or how happy endings don't happen in the real world...I just have to remind myself of the friends I had who gave their lives in the sand of Iraq and Afghanistan. Mass Effect always allowed me to have some hope in humanity and all life. To know that despite evil telling us that we are alone and our free will is a lie, we can know (through storytelling) that evil is a liar. Heroes can stand up against such brutality and darkness and make a stand. Happy endings are possible! Evil doesn't always prevail! (even if the world around us tells otherwise, in the words of Shepherd we must believe and have hope).

In conclusion to a really long comment, I'm with Shepherd. I'd prefer all out extinction to being the slave of determinism. I would have been fine with the Reapers ending all organic life in the galaxy over what was presented. The ending that should have been there is Shepherd proving to the evil, deterministic, fatalistic entity that it was wrong. Organics and synthetics can live in peace together (can I compare that people of different religions, cultures, creeeds, etc can live in peace together). Look at what we have accomplished! When faced with wanton evil, all life--organic and synthetic--prove that they will come together and rally around goodness and truth. The stupid kid wants order? Order is peace. And we can achieve peace (even if a machine says no based upon weak empirical evidence), and we MUST BELIEVE that we can achieve peace. Evolution and determinism will not have the last word. Life will--and life represented by Commander Shepherd should have proven that--prevail over death.
Oh, one more thought. If the entirety of ME3 had sucked, I wouldn't have cared about the endings. But that is not the case at all. Before I had finished the game, I was calling/texting all my friends saying you must buy this game NOW!! Its the greatest game ever made and better than almost every movie out there. And that's the problem. The total departure from everything the game stood for at the end.

Besides the end, Bioware crafted a masterpiece. I was crying at Thane's sacrifice and Mordin's sacrifice left me in tears for an hour I was so moved (I was so moved because Mordin exercised his free will to stand against evil and determinism. The Salarians utilized the same thought-processes as the stupid kid in the end, and Mordin defied them.) But I digress.

The game--hell the whole series--was pure art. The end made if feel like a deterministic fatalist came along and tossed a can of black paint upon Van Gogh's Little Bit of Light and said: "don't feel anything except nothing you determined organic."

Oh, and if you think about it...the Reapers win anyway you slice it.

[Cellander]

Most memorable part is the ending, no doubt. I don't know if this is the ending or indoctrination or something else, there are certainly things to be cautious of. I'll just describe the ending as I experienced it right now.

I chose synthesis, organic and synthetic combined into the next step of evolution. A new DNA. I found this ending extremely sad but also with hope. Everything all organic life have accomplished, everything we depend on is destroyed. The crew that walks out of the Normandy in the end aren't what they used to be. They aren't necessarily Joker or Liara or Garrus anymore, they are a beginning of new life.

It's like everything organic life has accomplished doesn't mean anything anymore, this is something beyond our comprehension. Seeing this is very beautiful and sad at the same time. Shepard turn into some husk creature just before he vaporizes. That makes me think of Saren, this is what he wanted. Suddenly Saren and Illusive Man don't appear evil anymore. Now I understand them.

This how I understood the ending and it got me all teary. I think you successfully indoctrinated me, not Shepard but me as a player.

However, I understand why many fans are disappointed. People think there are too many questions still unanswered, I for once can agree. Right now BioWare have the ball, they could easily turn what many fans see as a disappointing ending to something that will be talked about for years. Something never seen in games or any media, ever.

I think no one have missed the Indoctrination Theory. Let us say that it's true. I think it would be cool if there's actually a large chance for the Reapers to win. In my case Synthesis would be a total loss but I as a player would be satisfied with that ending. We didn't make it, I couldn't resist the indoctrination, they were too strong. That's how my journey with Shepard ends. This puts the actual player to test, this is what would be truly unique.

I would say that the ending, at least synthesis, is very beautiful. At the same time I think there's something missing. There are things left untold.

A DLC, something like this rumor "The Truth", an epilogue of some sort would satisfy most of the fans. With this missing piece combined with the ending we have at this moment, it could go down to one of the best endings in gaming history.

Modifié par Cellander, 15 mars 2012 - 07:13 .

[letifer89]

i want and ending with a lot of blue children and my shepard is alive and not that 3 endings

[rag3ous]

Quarains and Geth quest lines were amazing.

I wrote up a 2k word long alteration for each of the endings the day I beat the game. With a littme more time passed, I'm not so set on the need to change the endings entirely, but I do think there are significant problems that should be addressed.

My problem with the end is that the normandy scenes have 0 context as to how people got there. Garrus was at the beam run, but is now on the normandy, that should be explained or he should be dead along with all the other people who didn't make it. Also, why they are running from the energy blast in what looks to be ftl. It's this big jump with out any explanation that's so bad. It makes just as much sense as Grunt hijacking a reaper to save everyone and bring them to the normandy. We go from A to B, then suddenly to E with no context of how or why.

A nice bonus would be to see the fight on earth and how the people you brought to the fight helped or changed things. Like maybe Jack's squad make a crucial save for Wrex's squad, Miranda saves one of the Normandy crew that didn't accompany you or something. Perhaps Miranda dies because you saved the Rachni queen and Grunt's squad couldn't save her in time. This way you get to see results of your actions, but the endings with Shep are the same, you just get context to the earth battles and consequences to your actions in parallel to what Shep is doing.

[EchoLuv]

urborg74 wrote...

Paper Cake wrote...

I loved every second of it up until the last ten minutes or so. My only quibble was going to be the confusing quest journal.

Just a small sample of what I loved:

The whole mission on Tuchanka was brilliant from start to finish. The flashlight sequences with the tinge of survival horror feeling were creepy as hell. I loved seeing the ancient krogan art and architecture (of course they worshipped the queen of the thresher maws!). Seeing a sand worm take down a reaper was fantastic, and, as EDI pointed out, demonstrated that the reapers could be beaten by the technologically inferior. Mordin's death made me cry--the first time a video game has ever done that. His death was sad, but emotionally satisfying. I loved Eve. She gave me hope that the krogan people could find their cultural renaissance.

All of the crew interaction, either with each other or with Shepard, were incredibly fun. I loved that they wandered around the Normandy or the Citadel and talked to each other. The strong, well-developed characters is one of the main reasons I replay the ME games. I really liked seeing all the surviving crew from ME2 (and yeah, I played a 'perfect' mission for my import, so I would see them all). I liked how they added to your assets, making me even happier I got them through the Suicide Mission.

The resolution to the quarian and geth conflict. I was able to talk both sides down and bring peace between them. That was one of the most satisfying moments I've had in all three games. I had loved Legion in ME2, and I cried for his sacrifice in ME3. I came out of those missions hopeful that the quarians and geth would grow together in peace and cooperation. 

And why the ending was dissatisfying:

All in all, I went into the endgame with a lot more hope than I had expected to. We knew a reaper weak spot, their 'eye' when open, and we'd seen a lowly--if immense--worm defeat one. Heck, we can take down a reaper with just the Cain during the London battle.

I liked being able to talk the Illusive Man into shooting himself--it was a poetic nod to Saren and felt like something Shepard could do.

Then the Catalyst appears and the game lost me. It was an abrupt shift in tone and genre. (One example I've read is: it's like ending Star Wars with the ending for 2001. Both good movies, both ostensibly in the sci-fi genre, yet completely incompatible universes with entirely different tones.) It took the story from the individual struggle, the band of brothers (esp. in ME2), to the cosmically grand. While that fits with some sci-fi, Shepard's story in both previous games was that of the hero who can triumph against all odds (or die trying). All through ME2 people tell Shepard that the mission is a suicide mission. Yet, if you pay attention and get to know the strengths and weaknesses of your crew, you can make the right decisions and make it out alive.

Now, I knew going in to ME3 that the scale would be bigger, that Shepard would most likely have to make some noble sacrifice. I figured she'd probably die (I had some small hope for a high paragon, did every mission in the game, did some secret thing somewhere, do all that and maybe Shep lives option, but I didn't expect it). I knew that and accepted it, so long as it was worth it. I have no problem with the hero dying in the end.

Where the game lost me was the Catalyst. He tells Shepard the reason for the reapers' existence and what her choices are.

There's only one problem: the Catalyst is wrong.

Shepard forged peace between the geth and the quarians. Shepard can befriend EDI and encourage her to grow and even romance an organic. Why can't Shepard argue this with the Catalyst? Shepard simply accepts what the Catalyst says, and in all three games Shepard has never "simply accepted". The Catalyst brings a stark Calvinist view to a series that has always celebrated free will.

I didn't trust the Catalyst, and I couldn't figure out why Shepard would. When he speaks of the reapers, he says "we", for cryin' out loud.

Then there's the choices:  [list][*]Kill the reapers, but also kill your friends and allies, EDI and the geth. Not to mention leave a pile of reaper corpses all over the place, which as we all know from ME2 is a Very Bad Thing.
[*]Control the reapers, but die in the process (how is that NOT a trap?).
Or merge with the reapers and all other synthetic life. Hm... wasn't that Saren's fate in ME1? "I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth."
Synthesis is repellant. It is forcing your will upon bodies of every lifeform in the galaxy. It is accepting the reapers' "technological future" that Legion speaks of in ME2, the one the true geth rejected in favor of making their own future. One look at Joker's creepy Illusive Man eyes is enough to tell me that's the worst decision of the three.

Then, no matter which choice you make, Joker is shown fleeing from the color beam and then crashing on a garden planet with (at least in my case) the crew members who were on the ground with Shep in London. Heck, wasn't the entire squad on the ground? You could speak to each right before the final push. How did they get on the Normandy, and why on earth would Joker abandon the fight?

Not to mention the chunks of the Citadel falling to earth (if you didn't choose 'control') and likely plunging it into an ice age. Plus all the fleets stranded in human space, including quarians and turians who will likely starve. Plus Wrex stranded on earth, never to see his babies or bring the krogan into the future you worked so hard to get for them. And that's all hoping the relays don't destroy all life in their systems when they blow up, as the one in Arrival did. That'd just be doing the reapers job for them, only more efficiently.

The other option is that Shepard is hallucinating this whole ending as a last fever dream as she lies broken and dying at the feet of Harbinger (speaking of which, where was Harbinger all this time? It had been obsessed with Shepard all through ME2...). It certainly does have a dreamlike quality. But that's a copout ending (not to mention insanely depressing).

Or maybe the indoctrination theory is true. I like that theory, and it fits. But... if it was, wouldn't the writers have made it more apparent? I mean, they're clearly good at their job, judging from how great the first 95% of the game was. Ambiguous endings in novels and movies are one thing (though it rarely works well in those mediums either). For a video game, I don't want to be told to go to the Imaginarium and dream up my own ending. It doesn't suit the genre.

Maybe life continues in the next cycle, free from the reapers. But tbh, that wasn't what my Shepard was fighting for. She fought for this cycle's right to survive and grow. This ending means all the characters and societies you've grown to love over the course of the games are gone. No more galactic society. Everything that made the universe so cool, just gone. It has ruined my desire to replay the games. I'd replayed ME1 and 2 many times over, and was looking forward to replaying ME3 many times over with my different Sheps and classes, trying for the best outcome.

Now I have no desire to replay when I know none of the decisions I make will have much impact on the ending at all. What's the point? Even with the highest assets, the galaxy is screwed. And it's no fun playing for so long just to be screwed.

Quoted for truth.  It seems the fans know the series better than the writers.

I could never say it better then this. ^^Truth^^

[morel142]

Bachuck wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...
 
We understand there is a lot of debate on the Mass Effect 3 ending and we will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game. We are listening to all of your feedback.

In the meantime, let's give appreciation to Commander Shepard. Whether you loved the ME3 ending or didn't or you just have a lot of questions, he/she has given many of us some of the best adventures we have had while playing games. What was your favorite moment?

This is one of the most blatant attempts at deflecting a topic I've ever seen. Unfortunately, a lot of posters have fallen for it too.

 Oh.. Don't think for a moment we haven't forgotten or been deflected..