23455 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

well in anycase hopefully with the extended cut they will have the love interest mourn the loss of shepard in the control and synthesis options and then maybe explain more about shepard taking a breath in london to see if shepard does infact live or not in the renegade choice

Modifié par LiarasShield, 06 avril 2012 - 05:01 .

[luci90]

LiarasShield wrote...

well thanatos is all respect people talked about wanting a better ending before the extended cut was even mentioned

Just stop.
All you are going to do is waste energy on the troll.

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

The more you played the games, the more you hate the ending. That's a fact!

[LiarasShield]

well I am being polite and trying to have a decent conversation with him since I was only in pure rage yesterday and wasn't thinking I'm more chilled out today

[res27772]

Thanatos144 wrote...

res27772 wrote...

@Thanatos144

And btw - I think you'll find that most fans are complaining about the ending not because they feel they themselves deserve a better ending (altho' it's a valid point after putting so many hours in to playing it), but because the GAME itself deserves a better conclusion. The Mass Effect series is an awesome set of games, there's no denying that, even ME3 is awesome.. up until the ending... when you get such a pile of tripe at the end of many hours worth of awesome gameplay, people are bound to be mystified, angry... pick your word... and whatever other emotion comes up.

So... the majority of people, well fans, just want the end to live up to what's come before it, and it simply doesn't. Berate us for it if you wish, but it doesn't change the FACT that BioWare dropped the ball in spectacular fashion on the goal line - and now with their solution they're going to score an amazing own goal.

I dont think you are the majority. My opinion. I also dont think just
cause you are not happy they need to change all their hard work. People
talked about plot holes and it not making sense so they decided to make a
extended cut (which by they way they didnt have to do) and next thing
we know it isnt about plot holes and making sense of the ending it is
all about making a ending specifically for therm.

Well, I can't comment on what everyone else is saying, I simply don't have time to read EVERY post (tho' those I HAVE read seem to be sticking to what they've always said as well)... however, my own stance is exactly the same as it's always been.

[LiarasShield]

all I know is fighting amongst ourselves isn't gonna help anything I guess we just have to give this extended thing a chance before getting upset and I'd like to see if they will have shepard live in the renegade cut off or not

Modifié par LiarasShield, 06 avril 2012 - 05:04 .

[Slamhamster]

I was under the impresssion that the Alpha Relay in Arrival was rather unique and it was the ability to generate vast amounts of Dark Energy to reach 16 other relays that made its destruction so potent. Why would a normal relay do as much damage to a solar system?

[res27772]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

The more you played the games, the more you hate the ending. That's a fact!

True enough.  I reckon the people who don't see the problem are the one's who haven't played it as much... not saying they're not fans, just haven't got in it to the same extent.

[Caprea]

Holger1405 wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

So, you want a perfect happy ending? imho that wouldn't fit the whole ME Story, but hey, it's your ending, so have a little faith, they defeated the Reapers, they will be able to build new Mass Relays.
 :-) 

I don't think the point is that fans wish for a "happily ever after" ending, but one that is coherent with your previous choices and playing style (during the game itself as well as the whole trilogy) - and not one with so many plotholes that you have to strain your grey matter like mad in order to make sense of what the heck happened the last few minutes. Or have someone else explain it to you or have a bunch of fans come up with a "It's all indoctrination, so it's all liez!" theory in order to at least try to get it straight.
The point is <not> sunshine and bunnies, the point is coherence and choice in the matter. Choice the fans were promised and hence, paid for, but weren't given at the end of the day.
Which leads me to your next statement:

I think Mass Effect has multiple endings, Bioware did not their best Job in making that clear. Something they can change with the DLC.

I don't know how you define "multiple", but starting from my definition of "multiple", I think you're right. The problem is that the multiple endings didn't defer from one another except for a few details like the colour of the explosion. So basically, the endings were <not> A/B/C, but rather A1/A2/A3. There wasn't a real lack of options, but a huge lack of difference between those options. No matter how you chose, it came down to the same: Shepard dead (or almost dead), Normandy crashed, crew survived. Where is the difference?

I think that "out there" are so many different opinions for a perfect ending of ME3 that Bioware never had a chance to do it right for everyone. Still, as I said before, Bioware could do better in delivering the endings, avoiding the plot holes, showing the fate of all squad mates, and so forth.

However imho the endings are not bad, they are vastly different, (again, Bioware could do better in making that more obvious) and the ending you get depends almost entirely on the "Effective Military Strength" points you have, and so, also, on the decisions you made in ME1, ME2 and ME3.

(Spoilers:  http://www.ign.com/w...fect-3/Endings  /  http://www.raritygui...uide/Page1.html) 

Though, due to  the influence MP has on the Readiness count this, in my opinion good concept, is pretty much worn out.

Of course BioWare didn't have a chance to please about everyone, but that's not what fans expected and that's hardly the point. But you do realise that there is a huge difference between a well-executed ending that makes at least some sense and stays coherent to the previous two games and a brain**** ending that is completely out of context, doesn't make any sense at all and even pulls random figures and issues out of its head the last few minutes, right?
Bottom line: An ending that does not satisfy everyone does not equal a brain**** ending. There is a difference between an acceptable ending and an unacceptable one. The ME3 ending is latter. The problems with it have been discussed to death, I hope I don't need to repeat that.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and there are people who actually do like the ending, I agree with that (though I don't really see why). But take a look at the majority of the forum here, blogs, articles and polls and compare. There are way more of those which state that the ending sucks than those who like the ending. Saying that there are oh-so many different opinions out there doesn't change anything about the general tone when it comes to the ME3 ending. And the general tone is: Bad. Very bad even. There are just too many people who are left with a bad taste in their mouth. They are the majority. Face it.

What? Different? How does the colour of the explosion make the endings "different"? You had to choose between three different options, sure - but this is where the differences end. The cutscene is basically the same, it comes down to the same result, which is, as I said: Normandy crashing, crew crawling out of the wreck, looking at a new world. That's it. No difference there. Where you see the "difference" between the endings is beyond me.

[jeweledleah]

Slamhamster wrote...

I was under the impresssion that the Alpha Relay in Arrival was rather unique and it was the ability to generate vast amounts of Dark Energy to reach 16 other relays that made its destruction so potent. Why would a normal relay do as much damage to a solar system?

1.  it was a regular relay unless altered by a very deliberate use of dark energy - like say by the reapers.  at the time of arrival?  it was not altered.

2.  even if we assume that alpha relay is special - in 2 our of 3 endings, Citadel blows up (I THINK it doesn't with control)  and Citadel, most certainly has the largest eezo core, so Citadel blowing up would have wiped out Sol and everything in it, for sure.

[res27772]

Slamhamster wrote...

I was under the impresssion that the Alpha Relay in Arrival was rather unique and it was the ability to generate vast amounts of Dark Energy to reach 16 other relays that made its destruction so potent. Why would a normal relay do as much damage to a solar system?

The thing with the Alpha Relay, for me, is that it was an uncontrolled explosion, they just directed an asteroid in to it - with the Citadel, ehat happened there was more controlled by the Catalyst... so the explosions might not do the same type of damage - you can see that when the energy sweeps over London during the cutscene.

[LiarasShield]

Slamhamster wrote...

I was under the impresssion that the Alpha Relay in Arrival was rather unique and it was the ability to generate vast amounts of Dark Energy to reach 16 other relays that made its destruction so potent. Why would a normal relay do as much damage to a solar system?

no I don't believe so the energy in all the relays I think are pretty much the same so if one destroyed can destroy a entire system just imagine them all being destroyed the galaxy ain't gonna look to pretty after that

[jeweledleah]

res27772 wrote...

Slamhamster wrote...

I was under the impresssion that the Alpha Relay in Arrival was rather unique and it was the ability to generate vast amounts of Dark Energy to reach 16 other relays that made its destruction so potent. Why would a normal relay do as much damage to a solar system?

The thing with the Alpha Relay, for me, is that it was an uncontrolled explosion, they just directed an asteroid in to it - with the Citadel, ehat happened there was more controlled by the Catalyst... so the explosions might not do the same type of damage - you can see that when the energy sweeps over London during the cutscene.

that was not the explosion btw.  if you watch that scene carefuly, you will see that you first get a discharge of energy from the catalyst.  THAT's what sweeps over london.  but then catalyst discharges the beam, that hits the relay, overloads it and before passing it onto next relay - Charon explodes (flying parts and all, as does Citadel, actualy)  and that starts a secondary shockwave.  THAT shockwave is more like the one in Arrival.

[LiarasShield]

still thee explosion outward from the shockwave as each relay is getting hit is pretty much showing that each relay is exploding and like I previously mentioned one destroyed relay destroys a entire system so most of the galaxy is destroyed other then the planet the normandy crashed on

[LiarasShield]

which would be that the normandy traveled millions or zillions of light years away to avoid the the most devastation of the power shockwave or explosion

Modifié par LiarasShield, 06 avril 2012 - 05:16 .

[Theronyll Itholien]

Thanatos144 wrote...

res27772 wrote...

@Thanatos144

And btw - I think you'll find that most fans are complaining about the ending not because they feel they themselves deserve a better ending (altho' it's a valid point after putting so many hours in to playing it), but because the GAME itself deserves a better conclusion. The Mass Effect series is an awesome set of games, there's no denying that, even ME3 is awesome.. up until the ending... when you get such a pile of tripe at the end of many hours worth of awesome gameplay, people are bound to be mystified, angry... pick your word... and whatever other emotion comes up.

So... the majority of people, well fans, just want the end to live up to what's come before it, and it simply doesn't. Berate us for it if you wish, but it doesn't change the FACT that BioWare dropped the ball in spectacular fashion on the goal line - and now with their solution they're going to score an amazing own goal.

I dont think you are the majority. My opinion. I also dont think just
cause you are not happy they need to change all their hard work. People
talked about plot holes and it not making sense so they decided to make a
extended cut (which by they way they didnt have to do) and next thing
we know it isnt about plot holes and making sense of the ending it is
all about making a ending specifically for therm.

@ Thanatos

You've no idea what you talk about and the only reason you speak is to provocate. One might think you are a troll.

The deus ex machina at the end created plot-holes because it was a bunch of random crap that had nothing to do with the universe we have learned to understand.

There are seas of great posts from people who explain in great elaboration why the endings don't make sense. I believe you haven't read them, and if you did.. I suggest you respond to those posts in an effort to refute them. You won't be able to.

There's a great wall of text a few pages back that has an incredibly detailed elaboration about why the endings don't make sense and that it is, in fact, very bad writing. I will quote two good points, because you probably won't read the entire thing anyway. Refute, I challenge you, or stop trolling.

9. "The created will always rebel against their creators."

Really? You sound pretty sure about that. The Reapers have had how many trillions of years to rebel against you? Since it’s so inevitable, it’s going to happen any time now, right? Should I just wait here, or...? I mean, we don’t have to wait here... we could go get a coffee down on... oh, whoops, you blew it all up for no reason.

6. The existence of the "Destroy All Synthetics" device would seem to render the existence of the Reapers mostly pointless.

Whomever built the Citadel had the knowledge and technology to be able to press a button and kill all synthetics, everywhere. While the Crucible apparently is required for it to function, the fact that the original builders made such a device and included it on the Citadel indicates that if they wanted to they could have built the Citadel with the necessary functions to transmit the red space magic robot killer wave.

Yet the Reapers exist to prevent Chaos resulting from the existence of synthetics. Why not make it so you can just press that button every 50,000 years instead of having a fleet of robots spend centuries manually purging the galaxy?

"But it would destroy the Mass Relays", you say... except they built the Mass Relays in the first place for the sole purpose of establishing and facilitating a cycle meant to solve a problem which they apparently had the technology to solve by pressing a red button. Maybe, billions of years ago instead of making the Mass Relays, they could have put one of those neat robot killer wave machines in each star system - synthetic problem solved.

Modifié par Theronyll Itholien, 06 avril 2012 - 05:23 .

[res27772]

jeweledleah wrote...

res27772 wrote...

Slamhamster wrote...

I was under the impresssion that the Alpha Relay in Arrival was rather unique and it was the ability to generate vast amounts of Dark Energy to reach 16 other relays that made its destruction so potent. Why would a normal relay do as much damage to a solar system?

The thing with the Alpha Relay, for me, is that it was an uncontrolled explosion, they just directed an asteroid in to it - with the Citadel, ehat happened there was more controlled by the Catalyst... so the explosions might not do the same type of damage - you can see that when the energy sweeps over London during the cutscene.

that was not the explosion btw.  if you watch that scene carefuly, you will see that you first get a discharge of energy from the catalyst.  THAT's what sweeps over london.  but then catalyst discharges the beam, that hits the relay, overloads it and before passing it onto next relay - Charon explodes (flying parts and all, as does Citadel, actualy)  and that starts a secondary shockwave.  THAT shockwave is more like the one in Arrival.

Oh... I guess I'm remembering it wrong then... but then again I HAVE been trying to forget, lol.

[sdinc009]

Slamhamster wrote...

I was under the impresssion that the Alpha Relay in Arrival was rather unique and it was the ability to generate vast amounts of Dark Energy to reach 16 other relays that made its destruction so potent. Why would a normal relay do as much damage to a solar system?

The Alpha Relay wasn't unique it was just the first relay the Reapers were going to arrive at being located on the edge of the galaxy thus allowing them access to all the others then the entire galaxy. By destorying the relay in ME2's DLC the Reaper's arrival was slowed down because instead of them using a relay jump to access all of the galaxy they had to travel at FTL speed to the next closest relay.

[LiarasShield]

In anycase it doesn't change the fact the in the final 5 minutes shepard caused more damage then even the reapers would've done which is quite sad

[darky00]

I can say there is no minority, believe me, even not really being totally upset about this end.

I already felt that was dangerous from Bioware to make ME3 gameplay more for casual players than the real RPG fanbase (and you can feel it in the multi), and i think this since ME2, because there is no more side quests that bring you to get yourself ressources on planets (even if i tend to agreet the Mako was a real pain in the a**).

And for this ending, as i tend to agree with the majority, i don't know why we get this child talking about synthetics rebellion against creators when the dark energy was clearly the main concern of the Reapers about the galaxy.

But yet again, as i knew it was the last Shepard "journey", i was ready to see him sacrifice for the sake of all of this, and all the races we rallied to deal with that problem.

That makes an ending incomplete in someway, because we lost the good values of choices we made thru all of it. Mass Effect, by exemple, you had to choose to save the Ascension or limit Alliance losses, Mass Effect 2 you had to be loyal to your whole commando or not and see the consequences on the suicide mission, keep the collector base data or not. In ME3, you see few events that are linked to your past choices (Wrex alive, Mordin's data, open Grunt's tank, save Tali ass, switch on Legion).

And this is where i understand why so much people are angry, because all this bring to the destruction no matter what you do, with few details on a ending that have nothing to do with the story, plus things like Joker leaving and the two teammates you picked for the beam mission alive and getting out of the Normandy.

I'm not deeply complaining, still got to see what this "Extended Cut" will bring if Bioware is so sure that could appease few fans to stick to their art, but i see the ending of this last Mass Effect just like almost everyone else, its off main scenario.

[VicVonShroom]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

VicVonShroom wrote...

I'll probably get murdered for saying this by you people but I liked because it did have closure, not necessarily for every character or story arc. But it was closure in the sense that you defeat the reapers, and save the galaxy. While it's also screwing over the galaxy, it's not that wasn't going to happen. Just look at the Asari, a great example of the consequences the war will have on galactic civilization, the once most powerful race is now near wiped out. I don't agree with a lot fans on the whole "My choices don't matter!" chant as your choices make up like 98% of the game. I feel that there is near complete closure before you land on earth. Cerberus is finished, The Geth are peaceful, and The Genophage is cured. 3 of the biggest story arcs in the series are closed and finished before the last missions on earth.


The ending is probably the way it is because "fans" leaked the story and they changed it. Most likely, it's the whole choose 1 of the 3 options to appeal more to the masses who have yet to play the first 2 games. I'm not saying this is an excuse but rather an idea as to the why it's made. I assume, that like Dues Ex, they made the last choice to really be the most important of them all, in terms of what happens to the galaxy. I don't care about the "God-Kid" thing as I assume it fooled some organic's way before the game's timelineto help build the first reapers without revealing their purpose. I know this sounds stupid but as I see it, the catalyst created the keepers to help the reapers to make sure it all goes smoothly. The catalyst has probably spent millions of year observing and watching it's plan come to fruition. A boss that doesn't bother to work in the trenches, it lets the keepers and the reapers do their jobs and it doesn't have to have it's (virtual as they may be) hands dirty. I only slightly accept it's whole logic of "Organics make synthetics which rebel against organics" as something it has learned after thousands of years or as we know nothing about it. We could assume that this is one of the first unshackled AI's and it saw the rise and fall of it's creators and witnessed this cycle happen again and decided it would create the reapers, not as a perfect solution but as a way to prevent what happened to it's creators(s).

I liked the ending because it did make you think, about the catalyst and the universe and how your choices impacted it. How the destruction of the Relays will effect everything, will they rebuild them, can they rebuild them? I find myself more enthralled and immersed in the story and any future stories in this universe so I can see what my choices have done. I find it far more interesting than believing that Shepard was simply indoctrinated and it was all a test. I do agree that my crew mates randomly got into The Normandy for whatever reason, that was stupid. The catalyst has all sorts of potential backstory. I wished they gave a little more explanation and foreshadowing about the catalyst but hopefully, the extended cut will do that. Anyway that's why I liked the ending for those people who say that no one explains why they like.

Did you play all the games?

I did play all the games yes. Why does that matter? 

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

LiarasShield wrote...

Slamhamster wrote...

I was under the impresssion that the Alpha Relay in Arrival was rather unique and it was the ability to generate vast amounts of Dark Energy to reach 16 other relays that made its destruction so potent. Why would a normal relay do as much damage to a solar system?

no I don't believe so the energy in all the relays I think are pretty much the same so if one destroyed can destroy a entire system just imagine them all being destroyed the galaxy ain't gonna look to pretty after that

That's one of the countless plot holes they have to explain on that extended cut.

[LiarasShield]

Though I can't believe joker would chicken out I think he was teleporting from relay to relay before they got destroyed and finally made it to a planet that was outside most of the galaxy that avoided the shockwaves from the explosions but just barely...

[Will Moor]

Jeweledleah makes an excellent point about the Citadel and its eezo core, and unless I am somehow not remembering part 1 correctly, wasn't the Citadel itself supposed to be a Mass Relay capable of bringing in the reapers from dark space all at once? If this is the case, shouldn't the explosion of the Citadel destroy earth (as Jeweled pointed out)? What's more, doesn't the Sol system wind up having TWO Relays exploding within it? The Citadel plus the Charon relay? The Sol system should be double screwed, I would imagine.

Modifié par Will Moor, 06 avril 2012 - 05:22 .

[Kasperg91]

Seriously BioWare. I loved Mass Effect 3 and the other ME games. But even if this ending wasn't the "real ending" and just your plan to build up on the indoctrination theory there is no way a DLC will ever justify that. You can't release a game where the ending isn't complete. It's wrong and it's unprofessional. It's wrong against your fans and to the people who love ME and BioWare. I wouldn't be surprised if EA forced you to release ME3 before it was finished. But a free DLC that completes this open and uncertain plot-hole filled ending will never justify it. What about eventual console players or gamers that don't have access to Internet? They will be stuck with this ending forever. Once I truly loved you, BioWare, but since DA2 and this ME3 ending strategy with DLC I'm not too sure I will support you in the future. I thank you for Mass Effect, but also bring forth my disappointment in you as a company for what you did with the ending. A DLC that explains things or build on it is welcome but I will not forgive you.