23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Jvolikas]

 I havent seen this in recent pages so I'm posting it again.  Full credit to bwFex for this piece.

bwFex wrote...



I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you
guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all
out.



I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game
franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it
delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.



I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever
played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions
I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact
on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world
to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment
about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and
effect. Work and reward.



The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching:
watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But
it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I
knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I
did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I
put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I
had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.



When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect.
Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing
out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure
that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already
near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every
multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be
truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every
time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in
the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.



I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In
fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine.
The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as
they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy
losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen
to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I
united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.



When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His
sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic
themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a
cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful,
significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing
character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for
nothing.



When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his
illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never
going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go.
But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was
beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was
meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took
a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter
place. And then it was all for nothing.



When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly
accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that
I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech,
I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the
Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that
I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was
meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained
deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.



And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.



If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really
supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause.
The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home
world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The
salarians will never see how people can change for the better.



Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as
they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them.
Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been
completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then
die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays
didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like
we saw in Arrival.



And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what
happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We
got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note
telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to
us all over again.



It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending,
either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting
sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was
beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous
sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.



No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of
coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already
been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight
these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up
every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came,
the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't
go down without a fight.



In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see
that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have
basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one
get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated
orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In
ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible"
Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more
powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the
fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that
there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past
five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together,
we can achieve the impossible.



And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to
some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color
is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we
fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at
all?



It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to
rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the
audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and
futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has
always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all
feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional
investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have
signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to
be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that
nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all
of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.



No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing
this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but
we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2
was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had
worked hard, worked together, and won.



Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the
past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as
the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar
extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should
we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came
to know and love?



Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing
that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless,
contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot
be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we
thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all
along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far
beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.



No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only
explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along.
Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions
independently.



The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to
one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had
in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard -
you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that
really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's
true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of
Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination
theory is true, it's not over yet.



And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's
time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start
working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You
can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the
time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in
you.



Just make it right.

[Erethrian]

dmcdeavi wrote...

Wingzero87 wrote...
I think I will pass on this 'extended ending', I don't like the ending and how it was presented, I don't like the epilogue. Giving me a few CGI scenes that I can watch on youtube will not change that. Free or not, I will not download this extension nor will I purchase any future DLC content for this game, I want nothing further to do with this franchise.

sadly, i second this notion.

Well, they said scenes, that doesn't mean just "cinematics". I hope they'll add gameplay to it. Here's hoping.

[NoirCZ]

Trollolo... ok...

But really... any info at all wheter or not I will need to go through all the Cerberus and Earth missions again just to see few more cutscenes? Or maybe they will be in the Extra menu?

[Theronyll Itholien]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

res27772 wrote...

@Thanatos144

And btw - I think you'll find that most fans are complaining about the ending not because they feel they themselves deserve a better ending (altho' it's a valid point after putting so many hours in to playing it), but because the GAME itself deserves a better conclusion. The Mass Effect series is an awesome set of games, there's no denying that, even ME3 is awesome.. up until the ending... when you get such a pile of tripe at the end of many hours worth of awesome gameplay, people are bound to be mystified, angry... pick your word... and whatever other emotion comes up.

So... the majority of people, well fans, just want the end to live up to what's come before it, and it simply doesn't. Berate us for it if you wish, but it doesn't change the FACT that BioWare dropped the ball in spectacular fashion on the goal line - and now with their solution they're going to score an amazing own goal.

I dont think you are the majority. My opinion. I also dont think just
cause you are not happy they need to change all their hard work. People
talked about plot holes and it not making sense so they decided to make a
extended cut (which by they way they didnt have to do) and next thing
we know it isnt about plot holes and making sense of the ending it is
all about making a ending specifically for therm.

@ Thanatos

You've no idea what you talk about and the only reason you speak is to provocate. One might think you are a troll.

The deus ex machina at the end created plot-holes because it was a bunch of random crap that had nothing to do with the universe we have learned to understand.

There are seas of great posts from people who explain in great elaboration why the endings don't make sense. I believe you haven't read them, and if you did.. I suggest you respond to those posts in an effort to refute them. You won't be able to.

There's a great wall of text a few pages back that has an incredibly detailed elaboration about why the endings don't make sense and that it is, in fact, very bad writing. I will quote two good points, because you probably won't read the entire thing anyway. Refute, I challenge you, or stop trolling.

9. "The created will always rebel against their creators."

Really? You sound pretty sure about that. The Reapers have had how many trillions of years to rebel against you? Since it’s so inevitable, it’s going to happen any time now, right? Should I just wait here, or...? I mean, we don’t have to wait here... we could go get a coffee down on... oh, whoops, you blew it all up for no reason.

6. The existence of the "Destroy All Synthetics" device would seem to render the existence of the Reapers mostly pointless.

Whomever built the Citadel had the knowledge and technology to be able to press a button and kill all synthetics, everywhere. While the Crucible apparently is required for it to function, the fact that the original builders made such a device and included it on the Citadel indicates that if they wanted to they could have built the Citadel with the necessary functions to transmit the red space magic robot killer wave.

Yet the Reapers exist to prevent Chaos resulting from the existence of synthetics. Why not make it so you can just press that button every 50,000 years instead of having a fleet of robots spend centuries manually purging the galaxy?

"But it would destroy the Mass Relays", you say... except they built the Mass Relays in the first place for the sole purpose of establishing and facilitating a cycle meant to solve a problem which they apparently had the technology to solve by pressing a red button. Maybe, billions of years ago instead of making the Mass Relays, they could have put one of those neat robot killer wave machines in each star system - synthetic problem solved.

The problem is you don't wish to accept the ending cause it isn't what you
had in mind. You can put all the walls of text up you want some critiques
are valid some are not. What it boils down to with a lot of them ether
needing explanation OR just plain not wanting
to take it at face value.  The fact that there is a AI at the center of
the citadel that is only activated when conditions are met isn't far
fetched and there are many things in this story that are farfetched and
unexplained. Yet there seems to be a complete hate for it. My opinion
is that it took to many by surprise. I expected something like this
cause it was logical that you meet the voice of those who started it
all. I always thought is was the keepers but that's really just a stab in
the dark.

No what I see are people upset cause of two reasons.
One Shepard ultimately meets a final fate. It is understandably to not like
this considering all the time you spent with the character but it is
just a character. Two that the relays blow up. This is cause many think
this ends the universe but not from the explosion but from the fact they
think the relays were the whole reason the universe existed. I fond it
odd cause they have been spending millennium studying these technologies
and the fact that you think they cant make something similar themselves
saying that the universe is full of idiots.

The rest of the
complaints can be explained more easily in the extended cut. So why the hate
for a dlc that hasn't came out yet? Cause they hate the
ending.............................The ending isn't going to change. they
said this. It is time to move on by ether abandoning the game or
waiting to see if you can live with it after the extended cut. Yet demanding you be given something that invalidates all their work to me
is absurd .

What I notice in most of your replies is that you somehow, delusionally think that what we get is what we get and it's basically ridiculous to go against it.

You prove in a fashion that is laughably obvious that you have no idea what the fans are upset about. It's not the ending of Shepard, it's not the destruction of the relays... it's EVERY SINGLE THING that happens in the last 5 minutes and the fact that all your hard decisions in both ME3 and the previous games seem to all have been for nothing. None of it makes sense. An AI contradicts itself to a pathetic extent that you are somehow not willing to see. You are so biased you've lost complete touch of reason. I haven't seen you agree with anything.

"The created always rebel against their creators."

The Geth did NOT rebel against their creators. The Geth defended themselves from annihilation by their creators. That's the most obvious flaw in that claim the godchild made. Also, it said that it created the Reapers. So why aren't the Reapers rebelling against the godchild? They already had trillion of years to do so but still they have not.

"Without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics."

Why not simply destroy the synthetics instead? The Reapers leave synthetics untouched, which would seem to run counter to their stated goal. Synthetics have indefinite lifespans and could persist into the next cycle to theaten future organic species. Destroying organics while leaving synthetics alone is not conducive to the stated purpose.

What about all that nonsense about "My solution won't work anymore." The Catalyst's entire purpose is to preserve order in the galaxy by using the Reapers to "prune" organic civilizations. But for no reason, Shepard being in the Citadel means his solution won't work anymore. He could have Shepard killed, or tell Shepard to sod off and everything would proceed as it has for all the previous cycles.
However, again for no reason, he presents Shep with the options to destroy or control the Reapers, both of which would bring the alleged chaos to the galaxy, which he spent untold aeons laboring to prevent. And he's just totally cool with that.
He could have never appeared to Shep, never brought him up to the Catalyst room, or simply never said a single word.. and Shep would not have understood the purpose of the devices in that room, thus preserving the Solution.

To a rational human being -- which it somehow seems you are not.. or you're just stuck in your own defeated reasoning -- nothing about this scenario makes any sense.

But keep defending it by all means, Thanatos. I don't know where Bioware got your blind loyalty from, though. Do realize, however, that your idea is false: Going against the majority just for the sake of doing so is not a sign of intellectual superiority. In fact, if you do so without logic or reason.. it is the sign of the exact opposite.

Modifié par Theronyll Itholien, 06 avril 2012 - 06:06 .

[Benchpress610]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
 life is full of letdowns.

I hate the ending because no matter what I did in ME1, ME2 or ME3, the ending is the same (except from the color of the explosions). It's not that the game comes to an end, it's that the ending has nothing to do with characters pesonality, the story in general and most important it has nothing to do with my Shepard...

The point here is not if you like the ending or not or if you are sad because ME is over, the point  here is that BioWare promised something to their customers, to us: different endings where your choices during ME1 ME2 and ME3 make the difference.

Did you see that in these endings? Because if you saw it, I really want to know how to get it!

@LittleBlueChildrenNow, this guy is not interested in a rational discussion. He's been trolling this thread for weeks....stop feeding him, just ignore him.

[StillOverrated]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

res27772 wrote...

@Thanatos144

And btw - I think you'll find that most fans are complaining about the ending not because they feel they themselves deserve a better ending (altho' it's a valid point after putting so many hours in to playing it), but because the GAME itself deserves a better conclusion. The Mass Effect series is an awesome set of games, there's no denying that, even ME3 is awesome.. up until the ending... when you get such a pile of tripe at the end of many hours worth of awesome gameplay, people are bound to be mystified, angry... pick your word... and whatever other emotion comes up.

So... the majority of people, well fans, just want the end to live up to what's come before it, and it simply doesn't. Berate us for it if you wish, but it doesn't change the FACT that BioWare dropped the ball in spectacular fashion on the goal line - and now with their solution they're going to score an amazing own goal.

I dont think you are the majority. My opinion. I also dont think just
cause you are not happy they need to change all their hard work. People
talked about plot holes and it not making sense so they decided to make a
extended cut (which by they way they didnt have to do) and next thing
we know it isnt about plot holes and making sense of the ending it is
all about making a ending specifically for therm.

@ Thanatos

You've no idea what you talk about and the only reason you speak is to provocate. One might think you are a troll.

The deus ex machina at the end created plot-holes because it was a bunch of random crap that had nothing to do with the universe we have learned to understand.

There are seas of great posts from people who explain in great elaboration why the endings don't make sense. I believe you haven't read them, and if you did.. I suggest you respond to those posts in an effort to refute them. You won't be able to.

There's a great wall of text a few pages back that has an incredibly detailed elaboration about why the endings don't make sense and that it is, in fact, very bad writing. I will quote two good points, because you probably won't read the entire thing anyway. Refute, I challenge you, or stop trolling.

9. "The created will always rebel against their creators."

Really? You sound pretty sure about that. The Reapers have had how many trillions of years to rebel against you? Since it’s so inevitable, it’s going to happen any time now, right? Should I just wait here, or...? I mean, we don’t have to wait here... we could go get a coffee down on... oh, whoops, you blew it all up for no reason.

6. The existence of the "Destroy All Synthetics" device would seem to render the existence of the Reapers mostly pointless.

Whomever built the Citadel had the knowledge and technology to be able to press a button and kill all synthetics, everywhere. While the Crucible apparently is required for it to function, the fact that the original builders made such a device and included it on the Citadel indicates that if they wanted to they could have built the Citadel with the necessary functions to transmit the red space magic robot killer wave.

Yet the Reapers exist to prevent Chaos resulting from the existence of synthetics. Why not make it so you can just press that button every 50,000 years instead of having a fleet of robots spend centuries manually purging the galaxy?

"But it would destroy the Mass Relays", you say... except they built the Mass Relays in the first place for the sole purpose of establishing and facilitating a cycle meant to solve a problem which they apparently had the technology to solve by pressing a red button. Maybe, billions of years ago instead of making the Mass Relays, they could have put one of those neat robot killer wave machines in each star system - synthetic problem solved.

The problem is you don't wish to accept the ending cause it isn't what you
had in mind. You can put all the walls of text up you want some critiques
are valid some are not. What it boils down to with a lot of them ether
needing explanation OR just plain not wanting
to take it at face value.  The fact that there is a AI at the center of
the citadel that is only activated when conditions are met isn't far
fetched and there are many things in this story that are farfetched and
unexplained. Yet there seems to be a complete hate for it. My opinion
is that it took to many by surprise. I expected something like this
cause it was logical that you meet the voice of those who started it
all. I always thought is was the keepers but that's really just a stab in
the dark.

No what I see are people upset cause of two reasons.
One Shepard ultimately meets a final fate. It is understandably to not like
this considering all the time you spent with the character but it is
just a character. Two that the relays blow up. This is cause many think
this ends the universe but not from the explosion but from the fact they
think the relays were the whole reason the universe existed. I fond it
odd cause they have been spending millennium studying these technologies
and the fact that you think they cant make something similar themselves
saying that the universe is full of idiots.

The rest of the
complaints can be explained more easily in the extended cut. So why the hate
for a dlc that hasn't came out yet? Cause they hate the
ending.............................The ending isn't going to change. they
said this. It is time to move on by ether abandoning the game or
waiting to see if you can live with it after the extended cut. Yet demanding you be given something that invalidates all their work to me
is absurd .

Yeah! Demanding them to give us what they promised when they advertised the game is absurd! How dare we want what we paid for? Give it up Thanatroll. You're cleary not interested in argument. All you want is to metaphorically hear the sound of your own voice and somehow link that to the size of your genitals.

[Unlimited Pain2]

I just read the announcement and these last few pages of comments and thought I'd chime in.... It's fine to like the ending, more power to you if you do. But there seems to be a large group of people who argue that the gamers have no right to want a better ending.

BioWare essentially destroyed everything that made the series great in those last 20 minutes. And no I don't mean through the use of a sad ending where Shepard dies and the mass relays are destroyed - I mean by stripping away Shepards personality that we've been building for three games now, taking away any impact of the choices we've made so far might have, and implementing a plot device (Deus-ex machina) that is pretty much a synonym for "poor writing". I don't want a happy ending (although I would be okay with it) I just want an ending that pays off the characters and story that I've grown to love. Does the current one do that? No it doesn't. While you could argue that as opinion, it's really not. There's glaring plot holes (such as teleporting onto the Normandy and EDI suviving the 'Destroy' option, along with many others) that make you go "Ok....How did that happen." to established characters in the last few minutes of the story. That isn't proper closure.

There are plot holes and elements from out of left field that don't fit with the rest of the structure and lore of the game. This is an obvious case of poor writing and, as I said before, while there's no problem with enjoying this ending, I don't understand how seemingly intelligent people can dismiss all of this. Is BioWare entitled to make a bad ending? Sure. Do we have the right to be angry since we financially supported creation of this bad ending? Yes. And what I think chafes me the most is the argument of "artistic integrity." I would feel better if BioWare would address the fact that, even without the out-of-left-field-starchild and the poor explanation he gave, the ending is badly written and littered with holes.

All that being said, Mass Effect 3 is a GREAT game and I haven't let the last 20 minutes damage that for me. BioWare is a great company that has produced great games. But the release of what I would call an 'unfinished ending' on whats pretty much their flagship series just makes me wonder what their line of thinking was, and how they can defend it without acknowledging that there is a reason for all the hate.

Modifié par Unlimited Pain2, 06 avril 2012 - 06:20 .

[MattNI]

I have one question that's been on my mind these past few days.

Has anyone from BioWare who has developed the game and is not PR related spoken about the ending in anyway?

[Donovaan]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

In anycase abandoning the fleet and shepard was a coward ass move joker why would you do that when you stayed to save shepard in me2?

Yep that does't make sense (OMG another plot hole ¬¬)

Back on ME2 when Shepard defeated the Shadow Broker with Liara, she told Shepard that she was the one who recovered shepard’s body from the SB.

ME2: Liara recovered Shepard’s DEAD body from the SB and she risked her life on it, because she loves Shepard.
ME3: Liara is trying to reach the Conduit with Shepard. Then Liara doesn’t even know if I’m dead or alive and she just left Earth with the rest of my squad.

Bioware, are you telling me that the same Asari that risked her life to recover Shepard’s dead body is the same Asari that left Shepard behind without knowing she/he is alive or dead?

You know that originally whoever was with Shepard at the end (presumably your LI was there) dies as you are running for the beam right? I've always figured BW just ran out of time to properly complete the endings so if the idea was that they all died, then there wouldn't be a Liara to try and rescue Shepard. If they changed that last minute and had to come up with a rushed reason why your squadmates weren't there, then we get "The Mass Effect Relay Race" (see what I did there )

[Unlimited Pain2]

Donovaan wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

In anycase abandoning the fleet and shepard was a coward ass move joker why would you do that when you stayed to save shepard in me2?

Yep that does't make sense (OMG another plot hole ¬¬)

Back on ME2 when Shepard defeated the Shadow Broker with Liara, she told Shepard that she was the one who recovered shepard’s body from the SB.

ME2: Liara recovered Shepard’s DEAD body from the SB and she risked her life on it, because she loves Shepard.
ME3: Liara is trying to reach the Conduit with Shepard. Then Liara doesn’t even know if I’m dead or alive and she just left Earth with the rest of my squad.

Bioware, are you telling me that the same Asari that risked her life to recover Shepard’s dead body is the same Asari that left Shepard behind without knowing she/he is alive or dead?

You know that originally whoever was with Shepard at the end (presumably your LI was there) dies as you are running for the beam right? I've always figured BW just ran out of time to properly complete the endings so if the idea was that they all died, then there wouldn't be a Liara to try and rescue Shepard. If they changed that last minute and had to come up with a rushed reason why your squadmates weren't there, then we get "The Mass Effect Relay Race" (see what I did there )

Which creates even more questions....Such as why race to the Mass Relay instead of just landing on Earth? Nevermind that your two companions whom make the run downhill with you end up on the Normandy anyways.... I would have been okay if they would have died. When my Shepard woke up, first thing I actually did was look around for their bodies and think "Oh no.... Did I just get Garrus and Tali (My two favorite characters) killed?" I think it would have been great (and heartbreaking) to turn and see them crawling towards the beam with their last breaths before dying.

[Khemi]

As things stand, the ending is the Matrix sequels starring Jar-Jar Binks. The ending is not just bad, it's subzero in the sense that a simple text screen saying "Victory!" would have been better. Or "Defeat!" for that matter. Less plot holes.

Modifié par Khemi, 06 avril 2012 - 06:29 .

[Ravanofdarkness]

If i workt for BioWare, i would just make an Alternate Ending DLC Pack that would work like this...

*Spoilers*

If you selected the Ending to Destroy the Reapers also known as Ending: Red you can see Shepard survive at the End, which could be used for the Alternate Ending DLC Pack to continue the Game towards the true Ending where Shepard has just dreamt all that up (like a glimpse to the Future/Deja-vu) after getting knockt out by Harbingers attack. So when he wakes up again like he did Originally you should see Harbinger charging up again to finish Shepard off but before that happens Joker arrives with the Normandy shooting at Harbinger distracting Harbinger long enough to buy you time to jump onto the Lift/Teleport device that Teleports/Lifts you into the Citadel. From there on everything is going to be the same as in the Dream but with a change towards the Endings.

New Blue Ending: Paragon

Shepard destorys the Reapers, Mass Relays stay intact and the Citadel is about to blow up because of all the Energy is had to use to destory the Reapers giving Shepard enough time to escape but Shepard is to tired to move after going through all that which leads to these two outcomes...

A.) If you saved Anderson from the Illusive Man then you will see Anderson coming up from the lift Shepard came from calling in the Normandy for a pick up before the Citadel blows up dragging Shepard towards the Normandy where both of them Survive with the rest of the crew.

B.) If you let Anderson get killed by the Illusive Man then Shepard will just lay ontop of the Citadel calling the Normandy giving his final Goodbyes to everyone before the Citadel blows up.

　
Green Ending:

Can stay exactly the way it was.

　
New Red Ending: Renegade

Shepard controls the Reapers, Citadel/Mass Relays stay intact, Shepard dies. But the controlled Reapers are turning every living creature throughout the Universe into a Reaper but under Shepards Command/Control.

This way BioWare keeps their Endings while having added a few new Endings that make us all happy.

Modifié par Ravanofdarkness, 06 avril 2012 - 06:33 .

[dfdsgrgre]

Khemi wrote...

As things stand, the ending is the Matrix sequels starring Jar-Jar Binks. The ending is not just bad, it's subzero in the sense that a simple text screen saying "Victory!" would have been better. Or "Defeat!" for that matter. Less plot holes.

ah but it wouldnt have "artistic integraty"

that was a joke

Modifié par dfdsgrgre, 06 avril 2012 - 06:33 .

[dmcdeavi]

MattNI wrote...

I have one question that's been on my mind these past few days.

Has anyone from BioWare who has developed the game and is not PR related spoken about the ending in anyway?

they are probably not allowed too. 

[Kinross]

To be honest I'm not sure you are listening in the true sense of the word but here goes. Up to the ending the game is average compared to ME2, it's considerably shorter and the removal of heavy weapons from inventory gives it even more of a console feel than ever. The requirement to engage in multiplayer to get what I consider the best ending at present (destroy with an EMS of 4k or over) is the first game breaker for me. If you weren't so coy with your marketing announcements at the start and made this clear I'd have never have bought this game and saved myself the experience of your vision.

The actual ending is just nihilistic tripe that I still think wouldn't pass muster in an essay writing competition for school children. I won't produce a wall of text about why I feel this because it's your vision just please don't call it art. If you want to see a downbeat ending that fits the tone of the story I suggest you get hold of a copy of the film Get Carter with Michael Caine to see how it should be done.

What really blows my mind is the allegation that the ending was fixed late in the day and wasn't submitted to the usual quality control checks and rewrites to ensure it was credible and sensible. If you aspire to hollywood style storytelling you should import some of the discipline that they've been subject to for years.

Irrespective of what clarification is provided I'll certainly be steering clear of any dlc or new products because of the way you've handled the fallout from your own decisions. Closing the game with a message to purchase new dlc just about says it all for the regard you have for your product and your consumers.

[Kain82]

Free DLC Coming in Summer

http://au.ps3.ign.co.../1222401p1.html

Modifié par Kain82, 06 avril 2012 - 06:38 .

[SilverTheEye]

To my regret, after an awful ending, after disgusting behavior of EA and BW, I decided to buy production of both companies never more. It was a difficult decision as here 15 years from my 31 years of life, I buy their production. But after they scoffed at us, I made this decision. More I won't buy any game let out by both companies. And I will use the best efforts, what in the territory of Russia, everyone learned, that both companies wanted to spit on our feelings. To take away our money and to provide in replacements a poor-quality, bad, crude plot in a beautiful cover.

[FamilyManFirst]

Thanatos144 wrote...
The fact that there is a AI at the center of
the citadel that is only activated when conditions are met isn't far
fetched ...

Yet that is never stated.  You are making assumptions, trying to explain an ending that doesn't make sense ... in other words, a badly written ending.

No what I see are people upset cause of two reasons. 
One Shepard ultimately meets a final fate. It is understandably to not like
this considering all the time you spent with the character but it is
just a character.

Some are complaining about this, yes, but that is not the main thrust of the protest.  People are upset because the ending is badly written.

Two that the relays blow up. This is cause many think
this ends the universe but not from the explosion but from the fact they
think the relays were the whole reason the universe existed. I fond it
odd cause they have been spending millennium studying these technologies
and the fact that you think they cant make something similar themselves
saying that the universe is full of idiots.

Again, you are making assumptions.  Indeed, you are actually arguing against canon, as it was made clear in the game that none of the races had been able to duplicate the mass relays.  Sorry, Thanatos, but at a bare minimum, intergalactic travel in the Mass Effect universe is gone, until and unless BioWare come up with some new space magic to make it happen.

The rest of the
complaints can be explained more easily in the extended cut. So why the hate
for a dlc that hasn't came out yet?

Because, by all appearances, BioWare doesn't appear to be willing to own up to their mistakes and write an ending that follows the plot, themes, and Dramatic Arc of the rest of Mass Effect 3, much less of the entire trilogy.

An "extended cut" ending has very little chance of fixing all the literary problems of the current ending.  You'd have to add some significant exposition of just who and what the "star child" is, resolving all the questions that his presence brings up, and doing so quickly, as this is the Resolution of both ME3 and the entire series.  You'd have to practically rewrite his little speech explaining the Reapers, as it is both full of logic holes and runs counter to one of the main themes of the game.  Finally, I don't see any way to salvage the final ending choices, from a literary standpoint.  The "blue ending" contravenes a major plotline of the entire ME3 game (the Illusive Man was right!), the "green ending" contravenes a major theme of the entire ME1 game (Saren was right!), and the "red ending" contravenes a major theme of about 1/3 of ME2 and ME3 (to heck with Legion, EDI, and the redemption of the Geth, kill all the synthetics!).  Again, I'm not saying that I don't like these endings (although I don't), I'm saying that they are flawed in a literary sense, which creates a lousy story.

As you say, BioWare has now said that they aren't going to change the ending.  Thus, they are asserting that they are going to keep an ending to their story that is quite poorly written.  They may fill some of the plot holes but I doubt that they can fill all of them, nor can they fix, with exposition, the thematic and Dramatic Arc problems with the ending.  That's not even mentioning the broken promises about significantly different endings based on your choices throughout the game.

Yet demanding you be given something that invalidates all their work to me
is absurd .

Clearly, they didn't put much work into this ending; if they had, it would have been a lot better, as is shown by the tremendous writing in the rest of the game.  However, I'm not demanding anything from them.  If they want to keep a lousy ending to a terrific series, they can.  I won't be pre-ordering any more games from them, however, nor will I bother to buy any DLC for this one.  Between this badly written ending and the fiasco they made of DA2, it's clear that BioWare's glory days are behind them.

[Suko Reia]

" On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening"
Bull****, with this new extended dlc ending that is a lie!

[LoneStarGazer1952]

Jvolikas wrote...

 I havent seen this in recent pages so I'm posting it again.  Full credit to bwFex for this piece.

bwFex wrote...


SNIP

And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's
time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start
working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You
can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the
time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in
you.



Just make it right.

Genuinely thoughtful post. The ME series is about more than Sheppard, unless you just viewed it as a "talky" first person shooter . . . unless we're wrong, and it's all just BS. I wanted to know what happened to everybody on the crew? Just where the hell was Normandy going and why? I hoped by working diligently and intelligently as Sheppard, I would have a chance to "sail off into the sunset of obscurity" with (in my case) Liara. All of the choices I made along the way were moot.

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

Donovaan wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

In anycase abandoning the fleet and shepard was a coward ass move joker why would you do that when you stayed to save shepard in me2?

Yep that does't make sense (OMG another plot hole ¬¬)

Back on ME2 when Shepard defeated the Shadow Broker with Liara, she told Shepard that she was the one who recovered shepard’s body from the SB.

ME2: Liara recovered Shepard’s DEAD body from the SB and she risked her life on it, because she loves Shepard.
ME3: Liara is trying to reach the Conduit with Shepard. Then Liara doesn’t even know if I’m dead or alive and she just left Earth with the rest of my squad.

Bioware, are you telling me that the same Asari that risked her life to recover Shepard’s dead body is the same Asari that left Shepard behind without knowing she/he is alive or dead?

You know that originally whoever was with Shepard at the end (presumably your LI was there) dies as you are running for the beam right? I've always figured BW just ran out of time to properly complete the endings so if the idea was that they all died, then there wouldn't be a Liara to try and rescue Shepard. If they changed that last minute and had to come up with a rushed reason why your squadmates weren't there, then we get "The Mass Effect Relay Race" (see what I did there )

Yeah. I watched that on youtube. They just forgot about that (thankfully, because I couln't have handled it if I see Liara dying).

So they come back to the Normandy and forget about Shepard after everything they went together... ha ha ha <_< I would laugh, but it isn't at all funny! <_<<_<

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

Is there some email or person we can contact? It would be great if some Moderators come to this forum and say something like:

Hey! We're still listening! (or we just star listening)

For god sake!! There must be someway to tell BioWare that they are so wrong they don't even notice how is this ending affecting people!

[gundam94]

If they are not going to change the ending (that was said in the Extended Edition or Directors Cut or whatever), how can they give us more closure EVERYBODY in the Sol System is dead from the relay explosion or like mentioned above living on extremely borrowed time.

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

Jvolikas wrote...

 I havent seen this in recent pages so I'm posting it again.  Full credit to bwFex for this piece.

bwFex wrote...



I really have been trying to let myself get over this nightmare, but since you
guys promise you're listening here, I'll try to just say it all, get it all
out.



I have invested more of myself into this series than almost any other video game
franchise in my life. I loved this game. I believed in it. For five years, it
delivered. I must have played ME1 and ME2 a dozen times each.



I remember the end of Mass Effect 2. Never before, in any video game I had ever
played, did I feel like my actions really mattered. Knowing that the decisions
I made and the hard work I put into ME2 had a very real, clear, obvious impact
on who lived and who died was one of the most astounding feelings in the world
to me. I remember when that laser hit the Normandy and Joker made a comment
about how he was happy we upgraded the shields. That was amazing. Cause and
effect. Work and reward.



The first time I went through, I lost Mordin, and it was gut-wrenching:
watching him die because I made a bad decision was damning, heartbreaking. But
it wasn't hopeless, because I knew I could go back, do better, and save him. I
knew that I was in control, that my actions mattered. So that's exactly what I
did. I reviewed my decisions, found my mistakes, and did everything right. I
put together a plan, I worked hard to follow that plan, and I got the reward I
had worked so hard for. And then, it was all for nothing.



When I started playing Mass Effect 3, I was blown away. It was perfect.
Everything was perfect. It was incredible to see all of my decisions playing
out in front of me, building up to new and outrageous outcomes. I was so sure
that this was it, this was going to be the masterpiece that crowned an already
near-perfect trilogy. With every war asset I gathered, and with every
multiplayer game I won, I knew that my work would pay off, that I would be
truly satisfied with the outcome of my hard work and smart decisions. Every
time I acquired a new WA bonus, I couldn't wait to see how it would play out in
the final battle. And then, it was all for nothing.



I wasn't expecting a perfect, happy ending with rainbows and butterflies. In
fact, I think I may have been insulted if everyone made it through just fine.
The Reapers are an enormous threat (although obviously not as invincible as
they would like us to believe), and we should be right to anticipate heavy
losses. But I never lost hope. I built alliances, I made the impossible happen
to rally the galaxy together. I cured the genophage. I saved the Turians. I
united the geth and the quarians. And then, it was all for nothing.



When Mordin died, it was heartwrenching, but I knew it was the right thing. His
sacrifice was... perfect. It made sense. It was congruent with the dramatic
themes that had been present since I very first met Wrex in ME1. It was not a
cheap trick, a deus ex machina, an easy out. It was beautiful, meaningful,
significant, relevant, and satisfying. It was an amazing way for an amazing
character to sacrifice themself for an amazing thing. And then it was all for
nothing.



When Thane died, it was tearjerking. I knew from the moment he explained his
illness that one day, I'd have to deal with his death. I knew he was never
going to survive the trilogy, and I knew it wouldn't be fun to watch him go.
But when his son started reading the prayer, I lost it. His death was
beautiful. It was significant. It was relevant. It was satisfying. It was
meaningful. He died to protect Shepard, to protect the entire Citadel. He took
a life he thought was unredeemable and used it to make the world a brighter
place. And then it was all for nothing.



When Wrex and Eve thanked me for saving their species, I felt that I had truly
accomplished something great. When Tali set foot on her homeworld, I felt that
I had truly accomplished something great. When Javik gave his inspiring speech,
I felt that I had inspired something truly great. When I activated the
Citadel's arms, sat down to reminisce with Anderson one final time, I felt that
I had truly accomplished something amazing. I felt that my sacrifice was
meaningful. Significant. Relevant. And while still a completely unexplained
deus ex machina, at least it was a little bit satisfying.



And then, just like everything else in this trilogy, it was all for nothing.



If we pretend like the indoctrination theory is false, and we're really
supposed to take the ending at face value, this entire game is a lost cause.
The krogans will never repopulate. The quarians will never rebuild their home
world. The geth will never know what it means to be alive and independent. The
salarians will never see how people can change for the better.



Instead, the quarians and turians will endure a quick, torturous extinction as
they slowly starve to death, trapped in a system with no support for them.
Everyone else will squabble over the scraps of Earth that haven't been
completely obliterated, until the krogans drive them all to extinction and then
die off without any women present. And this is all assuming that the relays
didn't cause supernova-scaled extinction events simply by being destroyed, like
we saw in Arrival.



And perhaps the worst part is that we don't even know. We don't know what
happened to our squadmates. We didn't get any sort of catharsis, conclusion. We
got five years of literary foreplay followed by a kick to the groin and a note
telling us that in a couple months, we can pay Bioware $15 for them to do it to
us all over again.



It's not just the abysmally depressing/sacrificial nature of the ending,
either. As I've already made perfectly clear, I came into this game expecting
sacrifice. When Mordin did it, it was beautiful. When Thane did it, it was
beautiful. Even Verner. Stupid, misguided, idiotic Verner. Even his ridiculous
sacrifice had meaning, relevance, coherence, and offered satisfaction.



No, it's not the sacrifice I have a problem with. It's the utter lack of
coherence and respect for the five years of literary gold that have already
been established in this franchise. We spent three games preparing to fight
these reapers. I spent hours upon hours doing every side quest, picking up
every war asset, maxing out my galactic readiness so that when the time came,
the army I had built could make a stand, and show these Reapers that we won't
go down without a fight.



In ME1, we did the impossible when we killed Sovereign. In ME2, we began to see
that the Reapers aren't as immortal as they claim to be: that even they have
basic needs, exploitable weaknesses. In ME3, we saw the Reapers die. We saw one
get taken down by an overgrown worm. We saw one die with a few coordinated
orbital bombardments. We saw several ripped apart by standard space combat. In
ME1, it took three alliance fleets to kill the "invincible"
Sovereign. By the end of ME3, I had assembled a galactic armada fifty times more
powerful than that, and a thousand times more prepared. I never expected the
fight to be easy, but I proved that we wouldn't go down without a fight, that
there is always hope in unity. That's the theme we've been given for the past
five years: there is hope and strength through unity. That if we work together,
we can achieve the impossible.



And then we're supposed to believe that the fate of the galaxy comes down to
some completely unexplained starchild asking Shepard what his favorite color
is? That the army we built was all for nothing? That the squad whose loyalty we
fought so hard for was all for nothing? That in the end, none of it mattered at
all?



It's a poetic notion, but this isn't the place for poetry. It's one thing to
rattle prose nihilistic over the course of a movie or ballad, where the
audience is a passive observer, learning a lesson from the suffering and
futility of a character, but that's not what Mass Effect is. Mass Effect has
always been about making the player the true hero. If you really want us to all
feel like we spent the past five years dumping time, energy, and emotional
investment into this game just to tell us that nothing really matters, you have
signed your own death certificate. Nobody pays hundreds of dollars and hours to
be reminded how bleak, empty, and depressing the world can be, to be told that
nothing we do matters, to be told that all of our greatest accomplishments, all
of our faith, all of our work, all of our unity is for nothing.



No. It simply cannot be this bleak. I refuse to believe Bioware is really doing
this. The ending of ME1 was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but
we knew that we had worked hard, worked together, and won. The ending of ME2
was perfect. We saw the struggle, we saw the cost, but we knew that we had
worked hard, worked together, and won.



Taken at face value, the end of ME3 throws every single thing we've done in the
past five years into the wind, and makes the player watch from a distance as
the entire galaxy is thrown into a technological dark age and a stellar
extinction. Why would we care about a universe that no longer exists? We should
we invest any more time or money into a world that will never be what we came
to know and love?



Even if the ending is retconned, it doesn't make things better. Just knowing
that the starchild was our real foe the entire time is so utterly mindless,
contrived, and irrelevant to what we experienced in ME1 and ME2 that it cannot
be forgiven. If that really is the truth, then Mass Effect simply isn't what we
thought it was. And frankly, if this is what Mass Effect was supposed to be all
along, I want no part of it. It's a useless, trite, overplayed cliche, so far
beneath the praise I once gave this franchise that it hurts to think about.



No. There is no way to save this franchise without giving us the only
explanation that makes sense. You know what it is. It was the plan all along.
Too much evidence to not be true. Too many people reaching the same conclusions
independently.



The indoctrination theory doesn't just save this franchise: it elevates it to
one of the most powerful and compelling storytelling experiences I've ever had
in my life. The fact that you managed to do more than indoctrinate Shepard -
you managed to indoctrinate the players themselves - is astonishing. If that
really was the end game, here, then you have won my gaming soul. But if that's
true, then I'm still waiting for the rest of this story, the final chapter of
Shepard's heroic journey. I paid to finish the fight, and if the indoctrination
theory is true, it's not over yet.



And if it's not, then I just don't even care. I have been betrayed, and it's
time for me to let go of the denial, the anger, the bargaining, and start
working through the depression and emptiness until I can just move on. You
can't keep teasing us like this. This must have seemed like a great plan at the
time, but it has cost too much. These people believed in you. I believed in
you.



Just make it right.

Very touchy. I totally agree with this guy! I just hope the Indoc Theory is true, because if it is BioWare just made a masterpiece, because the player even know she/he is indoctrinated!

The Indoc Theory is the best way to fix the ending!

[Benchpress610]

Those who want to paint us as the happy-ending-wanting-entitled crowd don’t understand, or don’t want to understand that what we are pleading for is satisfaction. Yes I want to have the option of a happy and satisfying ending, not because I feel entitled but because I played all three games following the “optimal” path to accomplish a satisfying outcome.
 
But it goes deeper than that. Hell, Shepard can die and we can still get satisfaction from the ending. One of the most celebrated literary pieces in History, and my personal favorite read, Le Misserables by Victor Hugo, is a tragic story. But is a tale of the human spirit overcoming adversity. Even when the hero dies at the end, the author manages to convey an uplifting feeling of triumph. Therefore the ending is satisfying.
 
I’m not gonna enumerate the pitfalls in ME 3 ending. They have been well documented in 600 pages. For the majority of us there is no satisfaction at the end of Mass Effect 3, just a feeling of emptiness.