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[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

Eryri wrote...

Kotaku are currently live blogging the Bioware panel at PAX - http://kotaku.com/58...s-effect-panel.

Doesn't look good for new endings.

Can you explain that please?

[Chrislo1990]

I'm following the live blog for the panel and Bioware really thinks that fan response to their announcement has been positive. Who are these people trying to fool. Seriously have they not been payiong attention to the forums? Wow the nerve....

[OneMore1968]

I have just done a rough tally of what I've spent on Bioware/EA games & their DLC's (DA/DAO/DA2 plus ME/ME2/ME3 CE) - it's about £450. A significant investment. Multiply that by the number of disgruntled fans and it's a lot of new one's to attract to make up the difference.

[Orath Kalesh]

Good evening to all ME3 fans, non-fans and game developers.

This is my first post in Bioware's forums and I am doing it right after completing ME3 on PC (no DLCs).

I was one of the lucky gamers who actually played all 3 games, who could afford ME3's pre-order and who was eagerly waiting for the big finale.

I have completed the game this afternoon (no MP) with an imported character from previous 2 games and I've got to say that, in many ways, the ME series was one of the best I have already played. I am far from being an addicted gamer, but I do enjoy (RPG) games that take you as deep as ME has taken me and I must say Bioware did a great job with this series.

The depth of characters, the variety of races and worlds and the intricate story, the gorgeous photography and the breathtaking cutscenes took RPG games to a whole new level. Congratulations to all that have been involved in the production, development and screenwriting of these series.

This said, however, I must agree with many of the posters when they say the end was rather disappointing. Whilst we could understand that a definitive "wrap-up" (one that could please all audiences) would be impossible to achieve, it is rather sad to see a "Matrix-like" finale with so much of "The Architect" imprinted or overwritten on an AI such as the Catalyst. Plus, an ending chapter with three "corridor-like" levels (Earth finale, 2 Citadel) is absolutely disappointing.

Nonetheless, only if I really wanted to, would I wander all evening/night trying to portray what pretty much everyone already said about the end of the game. That is not, however, my main purpose. What I want to is to give my view of the matters/subjects that turned my personal experience "lacking". Some non-answered questions and other major let-downs that could be easily corrected only if Bioware wants to.

Therefore, here's a list of what was unanswered and/or I was expecting to see in ME3 and that didn't happen (in no particular order of importance):

1. Who are the keepers after all? Why are the keepers still working in the Citadel as if nothing happened on the last "corridor" chapter? Are they really under the control of the Reapers? Or under the control of the Catalyst? If in control of the Reapers, why didn't they attack the Commander when he arrived the Citadel? If in control of the Catalyst, what was their real purpose?

2. Why did the Catalyst pick the boy that appeared in the beggining of the game to be portrayed before the Commander? Was it because it had limited access to the Commander's mind (due to the conversation with the Illusive Man? When the Commander was talking to the Commander, was he about to be indoctrinated? If so, by whom? By the Reapers (through the Illusive Man)? Or by the Catalyst (who, indeed, controlled the Reapers)?

3. Frankly, after reading the Comics (that announced that the wrap-up for Omega's story was to happen in ME3), I was expecting a chapter with Aria as a teammate in order to retake Omega. However, that didn't happen. So, what happened to her? Is she one of the bodies on the piles of bodies in the Citadel? Or did she manage to escape? And why on Earth wasn't she a War Asset?

4. The bodies in the Citadel really confused me. Lots of victims, but no attackers. Why? What was that all about? And what is the connection of that with the Illusive Man? Which leads me to another thing: how on Earth did the Illusive Man manage to access the Citadel and the room with the Catalyst BEFORE anyone else (including the Commander)? Did he bypass the Reaper's defenses? If so, how?

5. The Illusive Man's campaign throughout the game is understable to the extent that he wants to control the Reapers. In that sense, it is understandable that he wanted (for instance) to kill the Council and puppetear Udina as Humanity's rep. However, that doesn't explain many of Cerberus' ops. Namely the ones against humanity itself. Was it because he was already indoctrinated? If so, how could he still be trying to achieve humanity's "best interests"?

6. Whilst I understand the need to make the Commander a martyr/legend, it amazes me that Bioware decided to close the Commander's story by destroying all Mass Relays (everytime), destroying the Normandy, forcing the Normandy's crew to a new world and, in some scenarios, leave the Reapers alive (when the purpose alltogether was to rid the galaxy of them)!

7. Another thing that bugged me was the option of either killing him or leaving him barely alive. If the end of ME3 is to be a dark-toned one (with the Commander not being a part of the predicted gaming future), why leave him barely alive under a pile of ruble instead of getting him to join all the rest of his crew in the Normandy?

8. Another thing that is incompreensible is the fact that (apparently) all of the Normandy's crew was inside the ship when the Commander makes the final move. I thought everyone was in London, not on the ship over Earth! I mean, if Hackett knew the Commander had managed to enter the Citadel with Anderson, wouldn't the logical option be to send all the crew to the Citadel to help in any possible way instead of rallying them inside the Normandy?

9. I was expecting a more broadened ending cinematic, especially considering that the Mass Relays were all destroyed and that, basically, all fleets in the galaxy were in the Sol system. I mean, all races deserved a spot in the ending cinematic, rather than just the Normandy itself and its members. Admiral Hackett definitely deserved a spot there, as well as all remainder main characters, such as Wrex, the Quarian Admirals, the Geth, Major Kirrahe and even the Council members. Let's hope the new DLC corrects that.

These are just a few examples of how my personal gameplay left so many question marks. However, this doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed the game. I still think Bioware did a great job and that this was an epic finale to a most successful trilogy.

Nonetheless, I DO hope that Bioware reads my post and sheds some light on the issues I have just posted, which may help gamers like myself to find closure.

Finally, and whilst I am thousands of kilometres away from Bioware's HQ (I am from accross the Atlantic Ocean), I would gladly displace myself to have the honor and the privilege to discuss these and other matters in person whenever you desire.

Regards,


Orath Kalesh

[Omnike]

Chrislo1990 wrote...

I'm following the live blog for the panel and Bioware really thinks that fan response to their announcement has been positive. Who are these people trying to fool. Seriously have they not been payiong attention to the forums? Wow the nerve....

I wonder how,much feedback they actually took in. By the sounds of it, they only got the general consensus that there was a LOT of anger. That's it. It's sad, really.

[Will Moor]

I hate the endings, but I guess I am not at a point where I want Bioware to explode. I would hate that, I love their games and I expect more good games from them. Bethesda and Bioware are the two gaming giants that I love. Even though they are digging their heels and doing the "artistic vision" thing (I now hate that term with every fiber of my being and will forever more want to throw a glass of water into the face of anyone I know who ever uses it in any context, sadly), I have hope that they won't ever give us another plot hole riddled, nihilistic, hopeless ending for any game series of their's ever again. Besides, we still have David Gaider. Gaider would never have done to us what Mac Walters did. Gaider had nothing to do with this Mass Effect 3 ending issue and I have not seen a bad ending from him yet. Despite DA2's overused settings, in my opinion, the writing was still great. I think David Gaider did amazingly well with what he was given to work with. So, I am not done with Bioware yet, despite my sadness over how ME has ended.

[sdinc009]

Talgor The Teribble wrote...









Okay I have never ever complained about a game in a forum
before and I have played terrible games. Mass effect is awesome. One blew my
mind, two knocked my socks off, and three melted my heart… right up until the
ending where it ripped me to shreds and left me angry and heart broken. I love
this series and that is why I don’t like seeing it end this way. Honestly this
was the worst ending to the best game and that just cant happen. I spent the
night after I beat the game hoping I would wake up and it would all be a bad
dream. However I’m not writing this just to complain.

 

I believe that mass effect 3 does indeed need to be changed
and even if my suggestions don’t matter I have to speak them. The problem is
obviously the ending. To put it nicely the ending sucks. Here is just my
opinion of how the game should have gone:

 

First I think the crucible needs to be deleted. IT is part
of the reason the ending sucks and it is worthless since it prettmuch screws
over the galaxy when it destroys the mass relays. I think that instead of
building the crucible the alliance should have simply been building massive
dreadnoughts (Possibly designed by the protheans like the crucible was) with
firepower to rival the reapers. It would still be easy to manage the story because
you still have to get war assets and Cerberus must still be destroyed because
they are a huge pain in the *** and if they are left alone for the last fight
they would help the reapers.

 

In the last battle there NEEDS to be more! I didn’t see
anything that made me feel like my choices mattered. Joker said a few things
and everyone “Reported in” that’s about the only thing that really seemed like
it had changed. Also the citadel shouldn’t be there anymore because there is no
crucible (also the citadel being there was stupid because you think it would be
remotely difficult for the reapers to just take the citadel in the hour it took
you to destroy Cerberus and I mean come on the citadel has a huge population,
it would be like attacking earth a second time so I don’t think the reapers
could just walk in without a fight as it is the seat of galactic politics.) As
for the whole battle in London that is easily rectified:

 

The battle in London no longer needs to be about getting to
the beam thingy. Instead I present two reasons(both similar) The alliance built
a large orbital defense turret in preparation for the reaper attack however the
reapers arrived two early and it was never finished but the reapers finished it
when the illusive man tipped them off that u had amassed a fleet possibly
powerful enough to take them down. The second is just that the reapers built
the entire orbital defense gun for the same reason. No matter which it is clear
that to win the battle for earth you must take the gun at all costs. It’s the
same run and gun strategy as when they were trying to get to the beam but
hopefully we could see some of your game choices impact. Maybe the geth could
send in some shock troops at some point or maybe the rachnii which I didn’t
even see in the last battle at all could show up cause they really should!!!!!
And maybe your companions that you don’t pick to come with you should go with
the rest of hammer instead of disappearing for the rest of the game?

 

Basically you kill the destroyer the same way and then take
the tower. The tower starts to fire at the reapers and with the extra support
Hackett orders a full push. There should be a sweet cut scene in which your
ships get destroyed if you didn’t do well in your choice making or your ships
kick *** if you did.

 

Meanwhile Shepard and the rest of hammer set up a defensive
perimeter around the defense gun. Reaper forces begin to blitz their position
in a aggressive attempt to regain the gun and turn it on the now in range
alliance/alien ships. Shepard could jump on a turret like he did a few times
before only this time you have a meter filling up as reaper forces get past
your line of sight and attack hammer forces. If the meter fills you lose (just
like dying except instead of “You died” it says “you were overrun”). If you
keep the reapers from overrunning you then eventually they stop coming. It
flashes up to the space battle and Harbinger leaves the battle to come attack
you.

 

With Harbinger on the way many of the surviving hammer
soldiers start to freak out and some openly suggest abandoning the orbital
defense gun. Its then time for Shepard to step up and make a speech. Throw in
some paragon or renegade dialogue choices and hammer troops get pumped and
begin to yell with valor or something. Then Harbinger swoops down and yells
something (perhaps even just “SHEPARD!!!!”) Then Anderson or Shepard or anyone
yells “Open fire” and Hammer opens up with a heroic last stand against
harbinger. Obviously it doesn’t hurt him much and he is blasting hammer apart.
Shepard then gets tossed when harbinger fires on his position. He is a little
scratched but still has his armor and is alright. Maybe that’s when Anderson
dies or something dramatic with his companions happens (all of his companions
should be present!)

 

Just when it seems like Harbinger has won, in flies the
Normandy! Joker pounds Harbinger with everything the Normandy has and maybe
says a few things before harbinger shoots the Normandy down and it crash
lands(If bad choices were made joker and the crew die, if good choices were
made Joker and the crew will survive) Then as the Normandy goes down Shepard
yells furiously and opens up on harbinger with his rifle. The survivors of
hammer, inspired by shepard, opens fire as well.

 

Its then that a squadron of alliance fighters sent by
admiral Hackett arrives to save the day. With harbinger severely damaged by the
Normandy and hammer the fighters have a chance. As Harbinger Tries to fire his
main lazer one last time the squadron flies in formation straight at him and delivers
a pounding too the giant red circle that looks like an eye. Harbinger is
destroyed and once again the game cuts up to the space battle where the reapers
are being destroyed. Ships blast away the last few and as the carnage settles
Hackett Says something like “That’s it, all reaper ships have been destroyed!
We… we won.” A resounding cheer goes out among the fleet as fighter pilots fly
around yelling victoriously in their cockpits, ship captains sit back in their
seats relieved and the word gets out.

 

The cinematic then flashes to the Citadel where the news is
just coming in that the reapers have been defeated, Cheers erupt, people cry,
people hug/kiss, and maybe Bailey pours himself a drink and raises his glass in
silent toast to shepard.

 

Then we see other places, other planets. The krogan on
Tuchanka head butt each other and shoot in the air. Thousands of Asari gathered
to pray at some shrine to their goddess stand and cheer etc…(The player should
also be standing and cheering. I expected that completing Mass effect three
would make me feel like putting my arms up like I just don’t care but instead I
said “What the hell was that?”) Then perhaps we get back to Shepard. The
remenants of hammer should be raising their guns in victory and Shepard should be
shaking hands/ hugging his companions, while soldiers salute him as he(Or she I
guess) passes them. Then the last companion you run into should be the one you
had as your romance(unless it was with one of the people not in your squad) For
instance if it was liara, shepard would take her in his arms and kiss her as
the sun sets in the background.

 

But hold the credits this game can’t end yet. We have to
settle a few things.

 

Now we go to a meeting of all the important people such as
Anderson (if he is alive), Hackett, the council, and all the leaders of the
different races you collected. Perhaps Shepard finally gets some praise and
then after a little talking about the victory Hackett mentions that all the
reapers weren’t present at the last battle since they were spread out across
the galaxy (but most were called back) and now the fleet has been dispatched to
hunt down the remaining reapers. This sets up that perhaps a reaper could hide
for years and emerge later in another mass effect game (not with shepard since
this is his last.)

 

Now comes the varied endings part as all good role-playing
games have. The council recognizes Shepard as a great man/women in all aspects
and mentions that with Udina’s sudden departure there is a council spot open.
Here shepard may either: 1- join the council and become a politician. 2- stay
in the military and help the alliance rekindle losses. 3- retire and live the
rest of his/her days in relaxation with whoever he/she was romantically
involved with. Maybe there could be more choices but these three endings are
better than the three choices at the end of mass effect 3 (That’s just my
opinion)

 

That’s all I have to say and I really hope you at least do
something to change the ending in some way that doesn’t completely make me lose
all hope and love for video games. (Heck you could at least add a renegade
action at the end where Shepard gives the catalyst the finger) So I don’t care
if you don’t even read this but please for the love of Shepard fix this game! I
will not buy any DLC (or any of your products) you come out with until you fix
it and hopefully those who agree with me that the ending sucked will refuse to
buy your products either. You have crushed my heart and soul Boiware… at least
try to patch me up… look on the bright side you couldn’t make the ending worse
lol. Sorry if that last comment hurt but I assure you your ending hurt much
more.

 

PS: my favorite moments were: Shooting Udina, Makin Blue
babies, Grunts rampage, Stabbing Kai Lang (Or whatever his name was) and I’ll
forever remember the moment the alliance swooped in to save the council in the
first game. 

That would've been a great way to take the ending. How long did it take you to fix the broken ending?

[epicalus]

liveblog

KCox:
Q: Ending DLC. More cut-scenes, or additional gameplay?

A: currently planning on extended cinematics but cannot currently comment otherwise. "keep giving us your feedback."

erm wtf have we been doing this whole time ? picking our noses? how much more feedback to these monkeys need?

[Butane9000]

If you say your listening Bioware then clean out that earwax and get your glasses:

We do not only want closure. We want the removal of space magic from the game. We want the star child gone. We want a better ending explanation then deus ex machina. We want to see our war assets somewhere in the final cutscene. We want Harbinger back as the main bad guy and possibly a fight with him in some form (have him take over TIM). We want to counter the organic-synthesis inevitable war argument with our Geth-Quarian war counter point.

All you're currently giving us is the closure. If that is your intent then you have failed to listen to your fans and you openly choose to doom your company!

[epicalus]

KCox:
Extending thanks to community and fans. "Without you, we are nothing. We are artists without an audience."

and yet it doesn't seem to bother them that the audience is walking away .

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

Omnike wrote...

Chrislo1990 wrote...

I'm following the live blog for the panel and Bioware really thinks that fan response to their announcement has been positive. Who are these people trying to fool. Seriously have they not been payiong attention to the forums? Wow the nerve....

I wonder how,much feedback they actually took in. By the sounds of it, they only got the general consensus that there was a LOT of anger. That's it. It's sad, really.

I can't believe there weren't more questions about the ending and the DLC! 

[Chrislo1990]

epicalus wrote...

KCox:
Extending thanks to community and fans. "Without you, we are nothing. We are artists without an audience."

and yet it doesn't seem to bother them that the audience is walking away .

Haha you beat me to it lol. And yes exactly!!! Their audiece is the EA stockholders, not the fans.  

[Omnike]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

Omnike wrote...

Chrislo1990 wrote...

I'm following the live blog for the panel and Bioware really thinks that fan response to their announcement has been positive. Who are these people trying to fool. Seriously have they not been payiong attention to the forums? Wow the nerve....

I wonder how,much feedback they actually took in. By the sounds of it, they only got the general consensus that there was a LOT of anger. That's it. It's sad, really.

I can't believe there weren't more questions about the ending and the DLC! 

I think they really kind of shut anyone asking about the ending down. They basically said "we can't comment further than that". Everything else seemed really trivial. Like, who cares.

[garytwine]

Hmmm, just finished reading Pax East blog. Bioware wouldn't confirm or deny:

"The indoctrination theory illustrates again how committed the fanbase is," Bioware's representative said, "We don't want to comment either way...We want the content to speak for itself, and we'll let it do so."

What does it mean? Does it mean anything? Maybe they are just trying to string people along so they will get DLC to find out... or not.

[Thomas Thrawn]

Again, Bioware, please fix the ending. Not just a few new cutscenes, not just a bit more explanation of the terrible ending as it is, please a new one in which we can achieve a outcome from good to bad, regarding earth, our comrades, our LI and ourselfes. Not one in which everything turns bad, no matter what, as it is right now.

For all of you who like the ending as it is: lucky for you, don't download a new ending when it comes out

[XDRonin]

 NO!  I don't think you guys at Bioware are listening and on top of that...  You don't get it!

(quote) - What is BioWare adding to the ending with the Extended Cut DLC?
BioWare
will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional
cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences. The
goal of these new scenes is to provide additional clarity and closure to
Mass Effect 3. (end quote)

This is not about us needing more ending cut-scenes and further explanation of the catalyst, this is about an ending that is just wrong (period)


- And IF! is thrue you are listening (Bioware)  Then watch this next video made by another fan with some great points you Bioware need to listen.
youtu.be/7MlatxLP-xs

[epicalus]

garytwine wrote...

Hmmm, just finished reading Pax East blog. Bioware wouldn't confirm or deny:

"The indoctrination theory illustrates again how committed the fanbase is," Bioware's representative said, "We don't want to comment either way...We want the content to speak for itself, and we'll let it do so."

What does it mean? Does it mean anything? Maybe they are just trying to string people along so they will get DLC to find out... or not.

this is what i call . 
bussenis talk . 
allot of talking , but basically you said nothing .
wich comes to the conclusion , that they shoulden't speak at all .

[Esquin]

It's really very simple.

If the we don't get the chance to call the starkid wrong and get the option to reject him and his offers then the ending still sucks. That is what the ending needs. The ability for my shepard to say no.

Also for Joker and the squad to stop teleporting.

[darthoptimus003]

if yall are really listining the yall would know that the endings are complete bulls*** the first 95% of the gamewas epic now fix the other 5% and dont just expand on it because it was lazy and completly screwed the other 2 games give the fans what we want a NEW not expanded NEW ending that would be for the best

[Chrislo1990]

Thomas Thrawn wrote...

Again, Bioware, please fix the ending. Not just a few new cutscenes, not just a bit more explanation of the terrible ending as it is, please a new one in which we can achieve a outcome from good to bad, regarding earth, our comrades, our LI and ourselfes. Not one in which everything turns bad, no matter what, as it is right now.

For all of you who like the ending as it is: lucky for you, don't download a new ending when it comes out

This is what the majority of the fans have been asking for and yet they refuse acknowledger us. Don't know what else we can do but withhold our wallets from them at this point. Naybe declining sells drves the message home.

Modifié par Chrislo1990, 06 avril 2012 - 10:16 .

[Mastone]

Hey Bioware why don't you have an indoctrinated Volus just shoot Shepard in the head ...insult upon injury.
You have your money already, this way you can show it's really and only about the money and you don't care about making good games anymore, just make mediocre ones and slap a lot of marketing and empty promises on it

[GB-Kakuzu]

"Without you, we are nothing. We are artists without an audience."

Funny you should say that.

[improperdancing]

Esquin wrote...

It's really very simple.

If the we don't get the chance to call the starkid wrong and get the option to reject him and his offers then the ending still sucks. That is what the ending needs. The ability for my shepard to say no.

Also for Joker and the squad to stop teleporting.

I pretty much feel like any ending that keeps the star kid in it at all sucks.  

And yeah...what I gather from the PAX panel is that BioWare isn't actually listening to us.  They're offering up some free DLC as damage control but are failing to address any of the actual complaints with the ending.  Like, you know, how the entire thing is awful, illogical, and poorly-written.

[Odetus-]

Just heard a thing that made me laugh:

The last words of the Mass Effect trilogy "What the F U C K?"

Modifié par Odetus-, 06 avril 2012 - 10:23 .