23455 réponses à ce sujet

[ChildOfEden]

The EC DLC has to deliver.....

[Theronyll Itholien]

ChildOfEden wrote...

The EC DLC has to deliver.....

Literally all logic says it won't and can't. You see, no matter how much sense they can SOMEHOW make out of the catalyst and its contradictions, Joker escaping, your crew being in it, and basically the entire plot that had been destroyed with that ending...... The fact remains that a good ending WOULD NOT EVER -- EVER!!!!!! -- need elaboration let alone a frealing DLC that clarifies it!

BioWare can be as proud as it wants with that ending, but that says more about BioWare than about the ending.

This is no longer a matter of opinion whether the ending was good or not. Not when the majority demands a change and a DLC has to be released in a pathetic attempt to please the fans.

You can keep polishing a turd... even sprinkle it with flakes of gold: It will always be sh*t.

[Leem_0001]

Did anyone else read the leaked info on where the series is supposedly going? The whole Mass Shift thing? Where Shepard comes back as the Catalyst?

It was a SUPPOSED leak and can in no way be seen as fact, just wondered what people thought of it? Not my cup of tea, certainly.

[Leem_0001]

I think I will wait until I see some non spoiler reaction to the DLC before I try it. Havent touched the game since I first completed it and if the Clarification DLC doesn't really fix anything then no point opening up an old wound, so to speak.

[Theronyll Itholien]

That Thanatos guy still trolling, I see? Still need him to reply to my last comments pages back. But that's just it: If you push him into a corner with logic and reasoning... he just ignores you. And because this forum is way too individualistic of late, the troll canget away with that.

[garytwine]

Leem_0001 wrote...

Did anyone else read the leaked info on where the series is supposedly going? The whole Mass Shift thing? Where Shepard comes back as the Catalyst?

It was a SUPPOSED leak and can in no way be seen as fact, just wondered what people thought of it? Not my cup of tea, certainly.

Really? Where did you see this? What else did it say?

[chazfu]

I believe the original idea on how to wrap the trilogy up in 3 games was ditched when the decision was made to keep the ME universe open for more games after ME3.

Developing a new game from the original plan would mean having to factor in a dozen or more possible starting points based on how your ME3 galaxy ended up. A logistical and storyboarding nightmare.

Reducing the differentiation of the ME3 endings equals a much more static galaxy for the new games beginning. Therefore reducing the workload/development time for the new game.

Bioware no doubt knew this would lead to some backlash and possible losses to the fanbase (although they probably didn't expect as much as they received). The multiplayer was probably seen as a way to bring in new fans from the GoW/CoD crowd to make up for these potential losses.

In short, Bioware scrapped the original plan because it would have been to difficult to produce yearly or bi-yearly iterations with that plan. The new plan keeps the ME universe open as a potential revenue stream. And even if it fails, they will be no worse off than they would have been had they narrowed the potential for new ME development with the original plan.

"Artistic integrity" = maximizing future profits.

Modifié par chazfu, 07 avril 2012 - 09:00 .

[Greyfox1114]

first of all, i want to give a giant thank you and kudos to the staff of bioware for making a journey for the gamer that was truly fulfilling in my opinion. the heartache i felt from the death of mordin, the fear i felt for grunt as he made his head first assault against the rachni-reaper hybrids, the solemn loss i felt from thane's passing, and much more conjured feelings i didn't think were possible for me to feel with a video game. feelings that i wish i could share to my non-gamer friends through an alternative media, so congratulations guys for an incredible and emotional journey.i just finished the game last night so i feel a little late to the party but i thoroughly enjoyed every second i played. however, i'm hearing many complaints about the ending and though i don't know every complaint and though the ending didn't bother me tremendously, i still understand the disappointment. For me, personally, I felt the ending was too brief. Don't get me wrong, I've made my jokes about Return of the King just like many others, but this long of an adventure with all the characters to grow emotional attachments, the ending left me wanting more. I wanted to see Jacob holding his new born baby, I wanted to see Garrus and James Vega in the bar toasting to Shephard, I wanted to see my love interest (in my case, Jack) coping with the death of her lover in whatever way she needed, I wanted to see Liara, Joker and EDI around the gravestone marked Shephard, Joker and EDI holding hands. I just wanted more. Again, I think you guys did an amazing job but this extensive of a journey I feel needs  some extensive closure. And maybe this will all be addressed in the new ending dlc but I stuill wanted to put in my 2 cents

[Theronyll Itholien]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

res27772 wrote...

@Thanatos144

And btw - I think you'll find that most fans are complaining about the ending not because they feel they themselves deserve a better ending (altho' it's a valid point after putting so many hours in to playing it), but because the GAME itself deserves a better conclusion. The Mass Effect series is an awesome set of games, there's no denying that, even ME3 is awesome.. up until the ending... when you get such a pile of tripe at the end of many hours worth of awesome gameplay, people are bound to be mystified, angry... pick your word... and whatever other emotion comes up.

So... the majority of people, well fans, just want the end to live up to what's come before it, and it simply doesn't. Berate us for it if you wish, but it doesn't change the FACT that BioWare dropped the ball in spectacular fashion on the goal line - and now with their solution they're going to score an amazing own goal.

I dont think you are the majority. My opinion. I also dont think just
cause you are not happy they need to change all their hard work. People
talked about plot holes and it not making sense so they decided to make a
extended cut (which by they way they didnt have to do) and next thing
we know it isnt about plot holes and making sense of the ending it is
all about making a ending specifically for therm.

@ Thanatos

You've no idea what you talk about and the only reason you speak is to provocate. One might think you are a troll.

The deus ex machina at the end created plot-holes because it was a bunch of random crap that had nothing to do with the universe we have learned to understand.

There are seas of great posts from people who explain in great elaboration why the endings don't make sense. I believe you haven't read them, and if you did.. I suggest you respond to those posts in an effort to refute them. You won't be able to.

There's a great wall of text a few pages back that has an incredibly detailed elaboration about why the endings don't make sense and that it is, in fact, very bad writing. I will quote two good points, because you probably won't read the entire thing anyway. Refute, I challenge you, or stop trolling.

9. "The created will always rebel against their creators."

Really? You sound pretty sure about that. The Reapers have had how many trillions of years to rebel against you? Since it’s so inevitable, it’s going to happen any time now, right? Should I just wait here, or...? I mean, we don’t have to wait here... we could go get a coffee down on... oh, whoops, you blew it all up for no reason.

6. The existence of the "Destroy All Synthetics" device would seem to render the existence of the Reapers mostly pointless.

Whomever built the Citadel had the knowledge and technology to be able to press a button and kill all synthetics, everywhere. While the Crucible apparently is required for it to function, the fact that the original builders made such a device and included it on the Citadel indicates that if they wanted to they could have built the Citadel with the necessary functions to transmit the red space magic robot killer wave.

Yet the Reapers exist to prevent Chaos resulting from the existence of synthetics. Why not make it so you can just press that button every 50,000 years instead of having a fleet of robots spend centuries manually purging the galaxy?

"But it would destroy the Mass Relays", you say... except they built the Mass Relays in the first place for the sole purpose of establishing and facilitating a cycle meant to solve a problem which they apparently had the technology to solve by pressing a red button. Maybe, billions of years ago instead of making the Mass Relays, they could have put one of those neat robot killer wave machines in each star system - synthetic problem solved.

The problem is you don't wish to accept the ending cause it isn't what you
had in mind. You can put all the walls of text up you want some critiques
are valid some are not. What it boils down to with a lot of them ether
needing explanation OR just plain not wanting
to take it at face value.  The fact that there is a AI at the center of
the citadel that is only activated when conditions are met isn't far
fetched and there are many things in this story that are farfetched and
unexplained. Yet there seems to be a complete hate for it. My opinion
is that it took to many by surprise. I expected something like this
cause it was logical that you meet the voice of those who started it
all. I always thought is was the keepers but that's really just a stab in
the dark.

No what I see are people upset cause of two reasons.
One Shepard ultimately meets a final fate. It is understandably to not like
this considering all the time you spent with the character but it is
just a character. Two that the relays blow up. This is cause many think
this ends the universe but not from the explosion but from the fact they
think the relays were the whole reason the universe existed. I fond it
odd cause they have been spending millennium studying these technologies
and the fact that you think they cant make something similar themselves
saying that the universe is full of idiots.

The rest of the
complaints can be explained more easily in the extended cut. So why the hate
for a dlc that hasn't came out yet? Cause they hate the
ending.............................The ending isn't going to change. they
said this. It is time to move on by ether abandoning the game or
waiting to see if you can live with it after the extended cut. Yet demanding you be given something that invalidates all their work to me
is absurd .

What I notice in most of your replies is that you somehow, delusionally think that what we get is what we get and it's basically ridiculous to go against it.

You prove in a fashion that is laughably obvious that you have no idea what the fans are upset about. It's not the ending of Shepard, it's not the destruction of the relays... it's EVERY SINGLE THING that happens in the last 5 minutes and the fact that all your hard decisions in both ME3 and the previous games seem to all have been for nothing. None of it makes sense. An AI contradicts itself to a pathetic extent that you are somehow not willing to see. You are so biased you've lost complete touch of reason. I haven't seen you agree with anything.

"The created always rebel against their creators."

The Geth did NOT rebel against their creators. The Geth defended themselves from annihilation by their creators. That's the most obvious flaw in that claim the godchild made. Also, it said that it created the Reapers. So why aren't the Reapers rebelling against the godchild? They already had trillion of years to do so but still they have not.

"Without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics."

Why not simply destroy the synthetics instead? The Reapers leave synthetics untouched, which would seem to run counter to their stated goal. Synthetics have indefinite lifespans and could persist into the next cycle to theaten future organic species. Destroying organics while leaving synthetics alone is not conducive to the stated purpose.

What about all that nonsense about "My solution won't work anymore." The Catalyst's entire purpose is to preserve order in the galaxy by using the Reapers to "prune" organic civilizations. But for no reason, Shepard being in the Citadel means his solution won't work anymore. He could have Shepard killed, or tell Shepard to sod off and everything would proceed as it has for all the previous cycles.
However, again for no reason, he presents Shep with the options to destroy or control the Reapers, both of which would bring the alleged chaos to the galaxy, which he spent untold aeons laboring to prevent. And he's just totally cool with that.
He could have never appeared to Shep, never brought him up to the Catalyst room, or simply never said a single word.. and Shep would not have understood the purpose of the devices in that room, thus preserving the Solution.

To a rational human being -- which it somehow seems you are not.. or you're just stuck in your own defeated reasoning -- nothing about this scenario makes any sense.

But keep defending it by all means, Thanatos. I don't know where Bioware got your blind loyalty from, though. Do realize, however, that your idea is false: Going against the majority just for the sake of doing so is not a sign of intellectual superiority. In fact, if you do so without logic or reason.. it is the sign of the exact opposite.

[Leem_0001]

garytwine wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Did anyone else read the leaked info on where the series is supposedly going? The whole Mass Shift thing? Where Shepard comes back as the Catalyst?

It was a SUPPOSED leak and can in no way be seen as fact, just wondered what people thought of it? Not my cup of tea, certainly.

Really? Where did you see this? What else did it say?

There was a post on these boards somewhere that linked to some 'supposed' notes leaked from Bioware. Again I don't know of they are true, and I think the site they came from was the same one the leaked the supposed Bioware writers post being critical of the ending.

It basically highlighted that in the next series Shepard was something called The Advent - as his body is inhabited by the Catalyst. It talked about future DLC showing the Normandy squad getting Shepards body back to find him in a coma. He comes out of it but is not Shepard anymore, Shep is dead, but he is this new Advent thing.

The next series of games, called the Mass Shift series, would also be different in terms of gameplay, but I forget exactly how. And I don't think you play as this Advent thing.

I'll try and find the link for it - but please don't take it as hardcore facts. It could well be rubbish (probably is) just wanted to see others opinions on it as it gives us something a little different to discuss was well as the current endings and the clarification DLC.

[garytwine]

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

That Thanatos guy still trolling, I see? Still need him to reply to my last comments pages back. But that's just it: If you push him into a corner with logic and reasoning... he just ignores you. And because this forum is way too individualistic of late, the troll canget away with that.

He can't reason. He seems incapable of it and seems to feel the need to reply to every single post  in order.

He reminds me of the Batarian terrorist leader in ME1 on the 'Bring down the sky' DLC. Throughout the whole conversation he's blaming humanity for everything, says they don't or can't understand. Uses phrases like "how predictable". 

In fact, I let him live!!! Thanatos could actually be Batarian terrorist leader!!! This is all making a weird kind of sense...

[Norrin_Radd]

StillOverrated wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

I'm sorry. We clearly disagree on this point. I do not see the "god from the machine" you do. I do not see any particular element of deus ex machina in this character.  If you wish to try and explain what I missed, I invite you to do so.

Look, even if you don't see it as a deus ex machina, the thing is essentially a Reaper off button that comes out of nowhere and just hands Shepard three different suicide options. Not only does it negate everythig you've done so far it arguably negates Shepard as the protagonist. He/she didn't win by his/her own hand. He/she won because he/she was handed a Reaper off-button that somehow appeared there after Shepard enters the room. In the end, the selling point of the game, the thing that made people buy it and the one thing that set it apart from other RPGs, is no more.

Also, "Yeah, I control the Reapers but somehow I can't control them after you enter the room, so you'll have to sacrifice yourself to make them go away. Self-sacrifice makes the story deep, right?"

It doesn't come out of no where. You spent the whole game making sure it got built. The Crucible was provided as a means to ending the cycle, by the people who created the cycle. Why else would the Citadel be the key to using it? The Citadel, The Reapers, The Mass Relays, The Crucible, and the Catalyst are all provided by the creators of the cycle. Until a cycle can actually implement the Crucible, like Shepard did, the cycle will continue as it always has.

The only way to build the Crucible is to break the pattern all cycles resemble, something Shepard, and your "Choices" did quite well. No matter what, your choices get you to the Crucible at the end, but Shepard is the only one prepard to use it. The Catalyst can't. From what I gathered, it was a really advanced form of a Citadel VI. One prepared to walk any mortal who makes it to the Crucible through the steps of starting a new cycle.

A cycle can end in 1 of two ways.

1. The Reapers annihilate all advanced life. 
2. You use the Crucible

At the end of the game, you are witness to the end and beginning of a new cycle. It just so happens that because of Shepard, this cycle has ended with the Crucible, for the first time ever. It only makes sense that the Creators of the Reapers made the Crucible, because to use it, means to destroy every Mass Relay.

I don't understand how this is anything but a triumphant ending. You bore witness to the end and the beginning a cycle. One man\\woman made it happen. That's absolutely bad ass!

I don't understand why people think there are other ways for this scenario to even end? You think Shepard is going to live? You think people will just continue using Reaper Relays and Citadel tech after the war was won? That whole thing would make no sense. You guys make no sense. It's time for this cycle to break free of the paths the Reapers set for it. It is truly time for the Mass Effect universe to become a sci-fi dynasty.

Instead of crying over the ending, none of you are thinking, for even a second, how this version of the ending will play out. Everything will be fine, and Shepard is a galactic hero. Every ME game from this point on will refer to him as the one person who ended the reaper cycle. The species will communicate through Quantum Entanglers, and united they will find a way to build their own Mass Relays and a new Citadel. It's got awesome written all over it.

It would be goofy if Shepard was alive, and he was just walking around after. "Oh, hey guys. yeah, I'm Shepard, saviour of the universe. No big". "Hey, how do the Mass Relays work?" "No idea, those Reapers sure were smart." Come on.

[garytwine]

Leem_0001 wrote...

garytwine wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Did anyone else read the leaked info on where the series is supposedly going? The whole Mass Shift thing? Where Shepard comes back as the Catalyst?

It was a SUPPOSED leak and can in no way be seen as fact, just wondered what people thought of it? Not my cup of tea, certainly.

Really? Where did you see this? What else did it say?

There was a post on these boards somewhere that linked to some 'supposed' notes leaked from Bioware. Again I don't know of they are true, and I think the site they came from was the same one the leaked the supposed Bioware writers post being critical of the ending.

It basically highlighted that in the next series Shepard was something called The Advent - as his body is inhabited by the Catalyst. It talked about future DLC showing the Normandy squad getting Shepards body back to find him in a coma. He comes out of it but is not Shepard anymore, Shep is dead, but he is this new Advent thing.

The next series of games, called the Mass Shift series, would also be different in terms of gameplay, but I forget exactly how. And I don't think you play as this Advent thing.

I'll try and find the link for it - but please don't take it as hardcore facts. It could well be rubbish (probably is) just wanted to see others opinions on it as it gives us something a little different to discuss was well as the current endings and the clarification DLC.

V ery interesting. That would be great thanks!

It could be made up by some fan somewhere but it would be cool if you could actually play someone like Garrus as the main character in a future game.

[Leem_0001]

garytwine wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Did anyone else read the leaked info on where the series is supposedly going? The whole Mass Shift thing? Where Shepard comes back as the Catalyst?

It was a SUPPOSED leak and can in no way be seen as fact, just wondered what people thought of it? Not my cup of tea, certainly.

Really? Where did you see this? What else did it say?

Okay, this is the gyst of it:

http://playstationga...-info-and-more/

Again, no way of knowing if it is true and chances are it is not.

[garytwine]

Leem_0001 wrote...

garytwine wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Did anyone else read the leaked info on where the series is supposedly going? The whole Mass Shift thing? Where Shepard comes back as the Catalyst?

It was a SUPPOSED leak and can in no way be seen as fact, just wondered what people thought of it? Not my cup of tea, certainly.

Really? Where did you see this? What else did it say?

Okay, this is the gyst of it:

http://playstationga...-info-and-more/

Again, no way of knowing if it is true and chances are it is not.

Awesome! Thanks!

[chazfu]

Leem_0001 wrote...

garytwine wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Did anyone else read the leaked info on where the series is supposedly going? The whole Mass Shift thing? Where Shepard comes back as the Catalyst?

It was a SUPPOSED leak and can in no way be seen as fact, just wondered what people thought of it? Not my cup of tea, certainly.

Really? Where did you see this? What else did it say?

Okay, this is the gyst of it:

http://playstationga...-info-and-more/

Again, no way of knowing if it is true and chances are it is not.

They quite obviously set the ME universe up for a sequel. You need only look at the VI converstion on Thessia to see the hints of whats coming. He states that the galaxy follows set patterns of development and downfall that goes beyond the Reaper cycles.

Also, the appearance of the Yahg on Surkesh seemed very pointed and out of place. Almost like a "Hey, look at these guys! Wouldn't it be cool to play a game with Yahg's in it!"

The three endings leave the galaxy in a pretty similar state for a new game to start from as well.

[darky00]

Norrin_Radd wrote...

It doesn't come out of no where. You spent the whole game making sure it got built. The Crucible was provided as a means to ending the cycle, by the people who created the cycle. Why else would the Citadel be the key to using it? The Citadel, The Reapers, The Mass Relays, The Crucible, and the Catalyst are all provided by the creators of the cycle. Until a cycle can actually implement the Crucible, like Shepard did, the cycle will continue as it always has.

The only way to build the Crucible is to break the pattern all cycles resemble, something Shepard, and your "Choices" did quite well. No matter what, your choices get you to the Crucible at the end, but Shepard is the only one prepard to use it. The Catalyst can't. From what I gathered, it was a really advanced form of a Citadel VI. One prepared to walk any mortal who makes it to the Crucible through the steps of starting a new cycle.

A cycle can end in 1 of two ways.

1. The Reapers annihilate all advanced life. 
2. You use the Crucible

At the end of the game, you are witness to the end and beginning of a new cycle. It just so happens that because of Shepard, this cycle has ended with the Crucible, for the first time ever. It only makes sense that the Creators of the Reapers made the Crucible, because to use it, means to destroy every Mass Relay.

I don't understand how this is anything but a triumphant ending. You bore witness to the end and the beginning a cycle. One manwoman made it happen. That's absolutely bad ass!

I don't understand why people think there are other ways for this scenario to even end? You think Shepard is going to live? You think people will just continue using Reaper Relays and Citadel tech after the war was won? That whole thing would make no sense. You guys make no sense. It's time for this cycle to break free of the paths the Reapers set for it. It is truly time for the Mass Effect universe to become a sci-fi dynasty.

Instead of crying over the ending, none of you are thinking, for even a second, how this version of the ending will play out. Everything will be fine, and Shepard is a galactic hero. Every ME game from this point on will refer to him as the one person who ended the reaper cycle. The species will communicate through Quantum Entanglers, and united they will find a way to build their own Mass Relays and a new Citadel. It's got awesome written all over it.

It would be goofy if Shepard was alive, and he was just walking around after. "Oh, hey guys. yeah, I'm Shepard, saviour of the universe. No big". "Hey, how do the Mass Relays work?" "No idea, those Reapers sure were smart." Come on.

See.. too bad a lot of people are just too much stubborn and avoid to read seriously those kind of posts. Focus on that folks, the future that can be in a next franchise series. I hear you man, kudos.

[garytwine]

Leem_0001 wrote...

garytwine wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Did anyone else read the leaked info on where the series is supposedly going? The whole Mass Shift thing? Where Shepard comes back as the Catalyst?

It was a SUPPOSED leak and can in no way be seen as fact, just wondered what people thought of it? Not my cup of tea, certainly.

Really? Where did you see this? What else did it say?

Okay, this is the gyst of it:

http://playstationga...-info-and-more/

Again, no way of knowing if it is true and chances are it is not.

Very interesting read. If any of this is true... at all... it would be a brave move if Bioware actually did rename the franchise as Mass Shift. They would need some reeeaaaalllly good PR to spin this and buy into it.

It said at the end Volus? I can't imagine a Volus would be any good as the main protagonist of an action game. Its stated throughout ME3 they aren't very agile and get the Taurians to do all their fighting for them.

Still, fact or fiction, an interesting read. Thanks for sharing

[dweomer]

chazfu wrote...


I believe the original idea on how to wrap the trilogy up in 3 games was ditched when the decision was made to keep the ME universe open for more games after ME3.

Developing a new game from the original plan would mean having to factor in a dozen or more possible starting points based on how your ME3 galaxy ended up. A logistical and storyboarding nightmare.

Reducing the differentiation of the ME3 endings equals a much more static galaxy for the new games beginning. Therefore reducing the workload/development time for the new game.

Bioware no doubt knew this would lead to some backlash and possible losses to the fanbase (although they probably didn't expect as much as they received). The multiplayer was probably seen as a way to bring in new fans from the GoW/CoD crowd to make up for these potential losses.

In short, Bioware scrapped the original plan because it would have been to difficult to produce yearly or bi-yearly iterations with that plan. The new plan keeps the ME universe open as a potential revenue stream. And even if it fails, they will be no worse off than they would have been had they narrowed the potential for new ME development with the original plan.

"Artistic integrity" = maximizing future profits.

Makes sense to me.  Bioware isn't denying it.  Basically all your choices in the series affected which missions/characters you would see in ME3, but they gathered up all the threads and braided them into a single set of endings that all end on the same point in the plot. 

This is basically the opposite of what the developers were promising prior to the game being released. 

[Leem_0001]

Norrin_Radd wrote...

StillOverrated wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

I'm sorry. We clearly disagree on this point. I do not see the "god from the machine" you do. I do not see any particular element of deus ex machina in this character.  If you wish to try and explain what I missed, I invite you to do so.

Look, even if you don't see it as a deus ex machina, the thing is essentially a Reaper off button that comes out of nowhere and just hands Shepard three different suicide options. Not only does it negate everythig you've done so far it arguably negates Shepard as the protagonist. He/she didn't win by his/her own hand. He/she won because he/she was handed a Reaper off-button that somehow appeared there after Shepard enters the room. In the end, the selling point of the game, the thing that made people buy it and the one thing that set it apart from other RPGs, is no more.

Also, "Yeah, I control the Reapers but somehow I can't control them after you enter the room, so you'll have to sacrifice yourself to make them go away. Self-sacrifice makes the story deep, right?"

It doesn't come out of no where. You spent the whole game making sure it got built. The Crucible was provided as a means to ending the cycle, by the people who created the cycle. Why else would the Citadel be the key to using it? The Citadel, The Reapers, The Mass Relays, The Crucible, and the Catalyst are all provided by the creators of the cycle. Until a cycle can actually implement the Crucible, like Shepard did, the cycle will continue as it always has.

The only way to build the Crucible is to break the pattern all cycles resemble, something Shepard, and your "Choices" did quite well. No matter what, your choices get you to the Crucible at the end, but Shepard is the only one prepard to use it. The Catalyst can't. From what I gathered, it was a really advanced form of a Citadel VI. One prepared to walk any mortal who makes it to the Crucible through the steps of starting a new cycle.

A cycle can end in 1 of two ways.

1. The Reapers annihilate all advanced life. 
2. You use the Crucible

At the end of the game, you are witness to the end and beginning of a new cycle. It just so happens that because of Shepard, this cycle has ended with the Crucible, for the first time ever. It only makes sense that the Creators of the Reapers made the Crucible, because to use it, means to destroy every Mass Relay.

I don't understand how this is anything but a triumphant ending. You bore witness to the end and the beginning a cycle. One manwoman made it happen. That's absolutely bad ass!

I don't understand why people think there are other ways for this scenario to even end? You think Shepard is going to live? You think people will just continue using Reaper Relays and Citadel tech after the war was won? That whole thing would make no sense. You guys make no sense. It's time for this cycle to break free of the paths the Reapers set for it. It is truly time for the Mass Effect universe to become a sci-fi dynasty.

Instead of crying over the ending, none of you are thinking, for even a second, how this version of the ending will play out. Everything will be fine, and Shepard is a galactic hero. Every ME game from this point on will refer to him as the one person who ended the reaper cycle. The species will communicate through Quantum Entanglers, and united they will find a way to build their own Mass Relays and a new Citadel. It's got awesome written all over it.

It would be goofy if Shepard was alive, and he was just walking around after. "Oh, hey guys. yeah, I'm Shepard, saviour of the universe. No big". "Hey, how do the Mass Relays work?" "No idea, those Reapers sure were smart." Come on.

Why would it be goofy if Shepard was alive? And why in God's name would he talk like that? Lol, talk about being obtuse.

The Starchild on the Citadel was a VI? But that is not stated. So are you saying a VI created an AI (the Reapers) and controlled them?

And can I ask why it makes no sense to continue using the Relays and Citadel after the Reapers are gone? What difference does the Reapers being around have to do with it. Relays are basically jump gates built buy a different species. Didn't stop anyone using them for 50,000 prior to this point. If you boil it down, right down, to basics, do you use technology from overseas? I bet you do. What difference does it make if it is from another country? Don't you see the original theme of Mass Effect represents the different people of Earth today and how they should work together?

Anyway, I do repect your opinion, but you are being a little obtuse in even trying to understand why people hate it. Simple fact is they disregard good storytelling techniques. Introducing a major character and theme at the resolution, using Dues Ex Machina logic, having none of the previous choices really matter as you are still stuck with a choice of 3 coloured endings, the vastly DIFFERENT endings we were promised and were expecting. The fact that ME lore states that if a Mass Relay is destroyed then the solar system it is in is destroyed too. That means earth, Tuchanak, all major systems are gone. The choices between Geth and Quarians wer for naught as the Quarians, and the Flotilla are destroyed (or stuck at Earth if space magic takes over and the systems are somehow not destroyed).

So the biggest three issues would be, I think: Lack of previous choices mattering (like we were told they would), lack of different endings and outcomes (like we were promised), and lack of logic and good storytelling used in the endings (which, as storytellers, is Bioware's job to provide).

Bioware wanted to push the envelope with this series, buy making all these hard choices matter and count, and up until the end they were on course for this. ME could have been a landmark in storytelling in videogames, putting it well and truely on the map as a viable medium to tell some of the most amazing stories, by playing to the mediums strengths. They missed the chance. In fact, they abandoned the series theme right at the very end. it was about people of different creed's and beliefs (represented by different species here) putting aside their differences and past confilcts and coming together as one. That was totally lost in the ending where it was flipped to Organics Vs Synthetics. And the choices at the end (if you can call them that) had no logic from the previous build up. You can either control synthetic life (never shown as a good thing), destroy it (never shown as a good thing - Geth and EDI) or combine the two (never shown as a good thing - look at Saren). Where was the choice to co-exist? Co-existance was the THEME OF THE WHOLE SERIES.

Modifié par Leem_0001, 07 avril 2012 - 09:37 .

[chazfu]

darky00 wrote...

Norrin_Radd wrote...

It doesn't come out of no where. You spent the whole game making sure it got built. The Crucible was provided as a means to ending the cycle, by the people who created the cycle. Why else would the Citadel be the key to using it? The Citadel, The Reapers, The Mass Relays, The Crucible, and the Catalyst are all provided by the creators of the cycle. Until a cycle can actually implement the Crucible, like Shepard did, the cycle will continue as it always has.

The only way to build the Crucible is to break the pattern all cycles resemble, something Shepard, and your "Choices" did quite well. No matter what, your choices get you to the Crucible at the end, but Shepard is the only one prepard to use it. The Catalyst can't. From what I gathered, it was a really advanced form of a Citadel VI. One prepared to walk any mortal who makes it to the Crucible through the steps of starting a new cycle.

A cycle can end in 1 of two ways.

1. The Reapers annihilate all advanced life. 
2. You use the Crucible

At the end of the game, you are witness to the end and beginning of a new cycle. It just so happens that because of Shepard, this cycle has ended with the Crucible, for the first time ever. It only makes sense that the Creators of the Reapers made the Crucible, because to use it, means to destroy every Mass Relay.

I don't understand how this is anything but a triumphant ending. You bore witness to the end and the beginning a cycle. One manwoman made it happen. That's absolutely bad ass!

I don't understand why people think there are other ways for this scenario to even end? You think Shepard is going to live? You think people will just continue using Reaper Relays and Citadel tech after the war was won? That whole thing would make no sense. You guys make no sense. It's time for this cycle to break free of the paths the Reapers set for it. It is truly time for the Mass Effect universe to become a sci-fi dynasty.

Instead of crying over the ending, none of you are thinking, for even a second, how this version of the ending will play out. Everything will be fine, and Shepard is a galactic hero. Every ME game from this point on will refer to him as the one person who ended the reaper cycle. The species will communicate through Quantum Entanglers, and united they will find a way to build their own Mass Relays and a new Citadel. It's got awesome written all over it.

It would be goofy if Shepard was alive, and he was just walking around after. "Oh, hey guys. yeah, I'm Shepard, saviour of the universe. No big". "Hey, how do the Mass Relays work?" "No idea, those Reapers sure were smart." Come on.

See.. too bad a lot of people are just too much stubborn and avoid to read seriously those kind of posts. Focus on that folks, the future that can be in a next franchise series. I hear you man, kudos.

3 is the end of Shepard's story, not the end of his character. He could appear in future games as an NPC, and honestly how cool would that be? An aged and grizzled Shep taking Hackett's role in future games telling the new PC "That's not how I saved the galaxy! Damn whippersnappers!"

[Leem_0001]

garytwine wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

garytwine wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Did anyone else read the leaked info on where the series is supposedly going? The whole Mass Shift thing? Where Shepard comes back as the Catalyst?

It was a SUPPOSED leak and can in no way be seen as fact, just wondered what people thought of it? Not my cup of tea, certainly.

Really? Where did you see this? What else did it say?

Okay, this is the gyst of it:

http://playstationga...-info-and-more/

Again, no way of knowing if it is true and chances are it is not.

Very interesting read. If any of this is true... at all... it would be a brave move if Bioware actually did rename the franchise as Mass Shift. They would need some reeeaaaalllly good PR to spin this and buy into it.

It said at the end Volus? I can't imagine a Volus would be any good as the main protagonist of an action game. Its stated throughout ME3 they aren't very agile and get the Taurians to do all their fighting for them.

Still, fact or fiction, an interesting read. Thanks for sharing

Lol, yeah, playing a Volus would be crazy - I can't see that happening. I think the truth of this article will be proven if any DLC is released similar to how the Terminator DLC is described (though it may have a different name). Until then it's just rumour, but an interesting read, like you say.

[Stvr46]

The game was amazing, and the story eas brilliant as in  all bioware games.
I have to admit, though, that once i finished it i got why there were so many negative comments about the endings.

I mean you HAVE to play multiplayer if you want Shepard to survive, no matter what you have done in the singleplayer game. And even if you do that you can either kill Shepard or the Geth AND EDI. I reallize that you wanted to make it all about tough choises, but in Mass Effect 2 we were given the chance to save everybody (crew and squad) depending on the choises we made earlier in the game.

What i saw in ME3 made me feel like i was wasting my time trying to build a massive force and do every thing else right. And also in the cutscene after the end titles it is implied that space travel was lost after the relays' destruction. People built the crusible, they had many years to study the relays, the citadel, the reapers, other races' tech etc. And they just never could create a way to travel in the galaxy??? Seems a bit odd.

Finally before someone says that things do not always work out in real life, i would like to remind everybody that the fact that games are different than reallity is what makes them appealing.

[chazfu]

dweomer wrote...

chazfu wrote...


I believe the original idea on how to wrap the trilogy up in 3 games was ditched when the decision was made to keep the ME universe open for more games after ME3.

Developing a new game from the original plan would mean having to factor in a dozen or more possible starting points based on how your ME3 galaxy ended up. A logistical and storyboarding nightmare.

Reducing the differentiation of the ME3 endings equals a much more static galaxy for the new games beginning. Therefore reducing the workload/development time for the new game.

Bioware no doubt knew this would lead to some backlash and possible losses to the fanbase (although they probably didn't expect as much as they received). The multiplayer was probably seen as a way to bring in new fans from the GoW/CoD crowd to make up for these potential losses.

In short, Bioware scrapped the original plan because it would have been to difficult to produce yearly or bi-yearly iterations with that plan. The new plan keeps the ME universe open as a potential revenue stream. And even if it fails, they will be no worse off than they would have been had they narrowed the potential for new ME development with the original plan.

"Artistic integrity" = maximizing future profits.

Makes sense to me.  Bioware isn't denying it.  Basically all your choices in the series affected which missions/characters you would see in ME3, but they gathered up all the threads and braided them into a single set of endings that all end on the same point in the plot. 

This is basically the opposite of what the developers were promising prior to the game being released. 

I believe that is one reason they are selling ME3 as a "series of endings" i.e. the Genophage/Geth war arcs. Your control over minor threads is profound, but still tied neatly into the overarching thread. Plus, the Geth, Quarians, and Rachni could be wild cards going forward based on how you resolved their threads in ME3. They could have a reduced prescence or none at all based on your decisions.

[Leem_0001]

chazfu wrote...

dweomer wrote...

chazfu wrote...


I believe the original idea on how to wrap the trilogy up in 3 games was ditched when the decision was made to keep the ME universe open for more games after ME3.

Developing a new game from the original plan would mean having to factor in a dozen or more possible starting points based on how your ME3 galaxy ended up. A logistical and storyboarding nightmare.

Reducing the differentiation of the ME3 endings equals a much more static galaxy for the new games beginning. Therefore reducing the workload/development time for the new game.

Bioware no doubt knew this would lead to some backlash and possible losses to the fanbase (although they probably didn't expect as much as they received). The multiplayer was probably seen as a way to bring in new fans from the GoW/CoD crowd to make up for these potential losses.

In short, Bioware scrapped the original plan because it would have been to difficult to produce yearly or bi-yearly iterations with that plan. The new plan keeps the ME universe open as a potential revenue stream. And even if it fails, they will be no worse off than they would have been had they narrowed the potential for new ME development with the original plan.

"Artistic integrity" = maximizing future profits.

Makes sense to me.  Bioware isn't denying it.  Basically all your choices in the series affected which missions/characters you would see in ME3, but they gathered up all the threads and braided them into a single set of endings that all end on the same point in the plot. 

This is basically the opposite of what the developers were promising prior to the game being released. 

I believe that is one reason they are selling ME3 as a "series of endings" i.e. the Genophage/Geth war arcs. Your control over minor threads is profound, but still tied neatly into the overarching thread. Plus, the Geth, Quarians, and Rachni could be wild cards going forward based on how you resolved their threads in ME3. They could have a reduced prescence or none at all based on your decisions.

Taking that into account, and trying for serious discussion and not a flame war, what did the Geth / Quarian and Salarian / Krogan story arc's matter in the end. If the relays are destroyed then lore states the solar systems local to them are too. So Tuchanka, the Flotilla, Earth, Rachnni - gone. But if ME lore is ignored and the systems arent destroyed, then the Flotilla is still trapped at earth, so the Geth / Quarian subplot was irrelevant. No matter what the Quarians don't get their home back. And the Salarians and Krogan will never see each other again with the Relays gone, so what did any of it matter?

Modifié par Leem_0001, 07 avril 2012 - 09:56 .