Leem_0001 wrote...
Norrin_Radd wrote...
StillOverrated wrote...
chemiclord wrote...
I'm sorry. We clearly disagree on this point. I do not see the "god from the machine" you do. I do not see any particular element of deus ex machina in this character. If you wish to try and explain what I missed, I invite you to do so.
Look, even if you don't see it as a deus ex machina, the thing is essentially a Reaper off button that comes out of nowhere and just hands Shepard three different suicide options. Not only does it negate everythig you've done so far it arguably negates Shepard as the protagonist. He/she didn't win by his/her own hand. He/she won because he/she was handed a Reaper off-button that somehow appeared there after Shepard enters the room. In the end, the selling point of the game, the thing that made people buy it and the one thing that set it apart from other RPGs, is no more.
Also, "Yeah, I control the Reapers but somehow I can't control them after you enter the room, so you'll have to sacrifice yourself to make them go away. Self-sacrifice makes the story deep, right?"
It doesn't come out of no where. You spent the whole game making sure it got built. The Crucible was provided as a means to ending the cycle, by the people who created the cycle. Why else would the Citadel be the key to using it? The Citadel, The Reapers, The Mass Relays, The Crucible, and the Catalyst are all provided by the creators of the cycle. Until a cycle can actually implement the Crucible, like Shepard did, the cycle will continue as it always has.
The only way to build the Crucible is to break the pattern all cycles resemble, something Shepard, and your "Choices" did quite well. No matter what, your choices get you to the Crucible at the end, but Shepard is the only one prepard to use it. The Catalyst can't. From what I gathered, it was a really advanced form of a Citadel VI. One prepared to walk any mortal who makes it to the Crucible through the steps of starting a new cycle.
A cycle can end in 1 of two ways.
1. The Reapers annihilate all advanced life.
2. You use the Crucible
At the end of the game, you are witness to the end and beginning of a new cycle. It just so happens that because of Shepard, this cycle has ended with the Crucible, for the first time ever. It only makes sense that the Creators of the Reapers made the Crucible, because to use it, means to destroy every Mass Relay.
I don't understand how this is anything but a triumphant ending. You bore witness to the end and the beginning a cycle. One manwoman made it happen. That's absolutely bad ass!
I don't understand why people think there are other ways for this scenario to even end? You think Shepard is going to live? You think people will just continue using Reaper Relays and Citadel tech after the war was won? That whole thing would make no sense. You guys make no sense. It's time for this cycle to break free of the paths the Reapers set for it. It is truly time for the Mass Effect universe to become a sci-fi dynasty.
Instead of crying over the ending, none of you are thinking, for even a second, how this version of the ending will play out. Everything will be fine, and Shepard is a galactic hero. Every ME game from this point on will refer to him as the one person who ended the reaper cycle. The species will communicate through Quantum Entanglers, and united they will find a way to build their own Mass Relays and a new Citadel. It's got awesome written all over it.
It would be goofy if Shepard was alive, and he was just walking around after. "Oh, hey guys. yeah, I'm Shepard, saviour of the universe. No big". "Hey, how do the Mass Relays work?" "No idea, those Reapers sure were smart." Come on.
Why would it be goofy if Shepard was alive? And why in God's name would he talk like that? Lol, talk about being obtuse.
The Starchild on the Citadel was a VI? But that is not stated. So are you saying a VI created an AI (the Reapers) and controlled them?
And can I ask why it makes no sense to continue using the Relays and Citadel after the Reapers are gone? What difference does the Reapers being around have to do with it. Relays are basically jump gates built buy a different species. Didn't stop anyone using them for 50,000 prior to this point. If you boil it down, right down, to basics, do you use technology from overseas? I bet you do. What difference does it make if it is from another country? Don't you see the original theme of Mass Effect represents the different people of Earth today and how they should work together?
Anyway, I do repect your opinion, but you are being a little obtuse in even trying to understand why people hate it. Simple fact is they disregard good storytelling techniques. Introducing a major character and theme at the resolution, using Dues Ex Machina logic, having none of the previous choices really matter as you are still stuck with a choice of 3 coloured endings, the vastly DIFFERENT endings we were promised and were expecting. The fact that ME lore states that if a Mass Relay is destroyed then the solar system it is in is destroyed too. That means earth, Tuchanak, all major systems are gone. The choices between Geth and Quarians wer for naught as the Quarians, and the Flotilla are destroyed (or stuck at Earth if space magic takes over and the systems are somehow not destroyed).
So the biggest three issues would be, I think: Lack of previous choices mattering (like we were told they would), lack of different endings and outcomes (like we were promised), and lack of logic and good storytelling used in the endings (which, as storytellers, is Bioware's job to provide).
Bioware wanted to push the envelope with this series, buy making all these hard choices matter and count, and up until the end they were on course for this. ME could have been a landmark in storytelling in videogames, putting it well and truely on the map as a viable medium to tell some of the most amazing stories, by playing to the mediums strengths. They missed the chance. In fact, they abandoned the series theme right at the very end. it was about people of different creed's and beliefs (represented by different species here) putting aside their differences and past confilcts and coming together as one. That was totally lost in the ending where it was flipped to Organics Vs Synthetics. And the choices at the end (if you can call them that) had no logic from the previous build up. You can either control synthetic life (never shown as a good thing), destroy it (never shown as a good thing - Geth and EDI) or combine the two (never shown as a good thing - look at Saren). Where was the choice to co-exist? Co-existance was the THEME OF THE WHOLE SERIES.
The Catalyst could very easily be a VI designed to interact with anyone who made it that far. EXACTLY the same as Vigil was a Prothean VI to help anyone who eventually got to Ilos. The Catalyst does not profess to be anything more or less (that I can recall) so I think assuming it was a final fail safe for any mortal on the verge of using the crucible doesn't seem far fetched. I mean, VIs are really common in the ME universe. Again, never stated, but, is it that hard to believe?
As for the conflict at the end. I agree, some of the catalyst dialog seems a little lack luster. But I can also see this dialog as being vague in the same way the Reaper dialog with Sovereign and the Reaper on Rannoch were also vague. Sovereign says they come from a plain of existence beyond Shepard's comprehension (paraphrasing), but nothing is ever explained about that. I am deeply curious about why the cycle had to be implemented in the first place. What happens if things go too far? Is it a technological singularity? Has this happened in the past, that nearly obliterated the galaxy? What could possibly be so enormous that the Reapers deem it unfathomable to organics? What if they are actually right?
What if organics carrying on the way they are (without Reaper intervention) could actually lead to some galactic catastrophy? I stated about 30 pages back one such catastrophy in the "Entropy Theory", which ultimates deals with the Heat Death of the universe(
http://en.wikipedia....of_the_universe). That is one such event that would have galactic, and even universal consequences. Sounds like something worth creating a cycle for, anyway. But that's just an example. It could all just start with the simple building of AI, and snowball from there.
Anyway, about the idea of Shepard being alive in future ME games. I don't see how it would be a possibility from a technological standpoint of BioWare, to still be able to carry on a contextual universe, that still incorporates everyone's different choices. Imagine if Star Trek had to write two completely different universes. One where Romulans rule, and one where the Federation rules, based on people's choices. It would be a nightmare to have to create, and carry on. I think it was even a nightmare for them to do this for just these 3 Mass Effect games. I think now, they can start to build on their Sci Fi Dynasty. To do that, though, they need to finally have a piece of story that they can say is certain. The Relays are gone, the Citadel is gone. Shepard is gone. Go.
I think Mass Effect was miss interpretted as a series where your choices will eventually affect the outcome of the trilogy. I think the choices you make more or less allow you to role play, and carry forward nuances of your character. The reason I think that, is because in the face of the Reaper threat, the only way for the threat to be as real and devastating as it is, is for there to be no difference what choices you've made. Nothing you can do will stop the Reapers phyisically, and there is a reason.
Because you have developed along the path they have chosen. There was never anything you could do to win the war with the reapers because you have already followed their path. And every species in the galaxy has built their entire civilization relying on
their relays, and
their citadel. Every species is at a level of evolution exactly as planned. All the patterns repeat, and all the events unfold like they have for every cycle prior.
This is why I think it makes no sense for the species in the galaxy to openly welcome the use of the Reapers' Mass Relays, and the Citadel, knowing why they were created. They were created to prevent life from ever achieving anything beyond. They are basically like taking the Prime Directive, and saying, "no, screw it! You will develop how we choose you to. And anything that would have been unique to you, is now altered due to our influence"
If the Crucible were designed by the same original creators of the Reapers, as a galactic "OFF" button, then there is no reason to assume that they are detonating the same way they did when an asteroid collided with one in The Arrival DLC. The ending imagery was far to vague to assume explosions were happening. And if those were explosions, you'd probably see pieces of the galaxy shift around and morph with the sudden change in gravity and what not. I think it's safer to assume that the technology people refer to as "Space Magic" is no different than the reason Mass Relays work in the first place. No one knows how they actually work, or they would build their own. Is it also too hard to assume the relays can send shut down and deactivate messages to eachother?
Again, all of this is just my own speculation. But I feel like most people are too ready to yell about the ending, without thinking about how this really doesn't have a
bad effect on the universe. It breaks my heart to see so many ME fans having such a hard time with the ending, when it is actually awesome, In theory. The presentation could use work, I grant you that.
Mass Effect 3 ended with a
new cycle beginning. Shepard was the single witness and the actual catalyst of the next stage in evolution. A stage no other cycle has seen, or experienced. It's bad ass, I tell you!
Modifié par Norrin_Radd, 07 avril 2012 - 11:10 .
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