23455 réponses à ce sujet

[darkway1]

AkaXan wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

ba0987 wrote...

I have a feeling that this DLC could suck... Potentially it could just be a quick set of suck ass cut scenes designed to 'answer' our questions along the line of:

How did Anderson get on the citadel unharmed?
Cut scene: they show shepard walking into the beam from andersons point of view and then show anderson running in too...

How did the crew get on the normandy?
Cut scene: crew getting on the Normandy or in a Kodaik...

Etc etc

I think the DLC will simply clarify the present ending,for example are the mass relay's now gone?Regardless of what people want from the ending Bioware has actually left the Mass universe pretty messed up,so the DLC will act to setup an enviroment that will work for the next Mass game......Bioware really needs to sit down and explain the consequences of Shepards choices,endings A,B or C change everything in the Mass universe.

Probelm is that clarification dose nothing to alter the truly broken endings. The A, B, C endings are so badly writen that they dont even work on a basic level and make so many rookie story telling mistakes, that brake the games own internal lore and logic that Bioware set up throughtout the ME series. Never mind that Bioware constantly said that Mass Effect was a series that player choice mattered, that to give the player a redundant A, B or C type end was never an option (Casy Hudsons words) but thats what we got. Maybe if the A, B or C endings actually made sense, actually worked on a basic story telling/writing level and didnt betray a lot of what mass effect was about, this mess wouldnt be happening, but it is.


Given Biowares lies and attitude towards its fans/customers I strongly belive that it was always thier intention to sell back the real ending as DLC as the set up for a new series in the ME Universe. Bioware just thought fans/customers would lap it up and never call them on what is clearly half assed work.

Lets be honest, dose anybody really want to invest thier time and money buying new games or DLC from Bioware after they have shown, they dont give a damn what fans/customers think or feel and will lie, even brake their word when it suits.

Just look at PAX, the questions were clearly vetted by Bioware. It was all carefully played out with Bioware answering questtions that never touch on the ending. Bioware staff just smiled and ignored it all. One look at this thread or the polls wouls give you an idea of the kind of questions that real fans would have asked.

From my understanding the usual story plots go through a procedure where writers rip idea's apart,till they end up with some thing solid .....in the case of the ending to MASS3 this procedure did not take place and hence why the ending is riddled with problems.

The Mass universe as it stands is screwed no matter what option you pick but realistically the only option that allows the story  to continue is the destroy (red) option,as by picking red, the universe is now rid of the reapers,leaving everything else intact.......if you don't kill the reapers then your looking at repeating the reaper conflict all over again.

Deep down I feel that the Mass concept was getting way to big,to many characters,to many plots etc and with each game release people expect more and more.........so the whole point of Mass3 is to end it leaving the door open to start some thing new but with in the existing universe.

As you have already pointed out ,the games ending throws up an interesting player mechanic.......I don't like the ending and even though you win,the universe is doomed ,because of the ending I just can't see the purpose of playing the game again????....I don't see any reason for buying DLC,which will pad out the same concusion...........yet I'm happy to play the multiplayer or re-play Mass1 and 2........it's almost like when some one dies,you mourn for the loss.....and actively seek/need  to move on............I now have no interest in MASS3,it's done,I don't want to dwell on how thing's could have been.

AS far as the endings construction goes,well....I totally agree with you,it wasn't very well thought out in my opinion,it's broken,rushed,out of context and the implications a,b,and c ,have on the universe are again a game changer...........after the way Mass3 has been handled both Dragon age3 and Mass4 are games I would usually auto preorder.......now I will wait for reviews before buying,if Bioware thinks the ending as it stands is totally acceptable then some thing is very wrong...............it's not about having the ending you want......the present ending just hasn't been produced very well at all........Mass3 simply deserved a better finale.

[Leem_0001]

Norrin_Radd wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

Norrin_Radd wrote...

StillOverrated wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

I'm sorry. We clearly disagree on this point. I do not see the "god from the machine" you do. I do not see any particular element of deus ex machina in this character.  If you wish to try and explain what I missed, I invite you to do so.

Look, even if you don't see it as a deus ex machina, the thing is essentially a Reaper off button that comes out of nowhere and just hands Shepard three different suicide options. Not only does it negate everythig you've done so far it arguably negates Shepard as the protagonist. He/she didn't win by his/her own hand. He/she won because he/she was handed a Reaper off-button that somehow appeared there after Shepard enters the room. In the end, the selling point of the game, the thing that made people buy it and the one thing that set it apart from other RPGs, is no more.

Also, "Yeah, I control the Reapers but somehow I can't control them after you enter the room, so you'll have to sacrifice yourself to make them go away. Self-sacrifice makes the story deep, right?"

It doesn't come out of no where. You spent the whole game making sure it got built. The Crucible was provided as a means to ending the cycle, by the people who created the cycle. Why else would the Citadel be the key to using it? The Citadel, The Reapers, The Mass Relays, The Crucible, and the Catalyst are all provided by the creators of the cycle. Until a cycle can actually implement the Crucible, like Shepard did, the cycle will continue as it always has.

The only way to build the Crucible is to break the pattern all cycles resemble, something Shepard, and your "Choices" did quite well. No matter what, your choices get you to the Crucible at the end, but Shepard is the only one prepard to use it. The Catalyst can't. From what I gathered, it was a really advanced form of a Citadel VI. One prepared to walk any mortal who makes it to the Crucible through the steps of starting a new cycle.

A cycle can end in 1 of two ways.

1. The Reapers annihilate all advanced life. 
2. You use the Crucible

At the end of the game, you are witness to the end and beginning of a new cycle. It just so happens that because of Shepard, this cycle has ended with the Crucible, for the first time ever. It only makes sense that the Creators of the Reapers made the Crucible, because to use it, means to destroy every Mass Relay.

I don't understand how this is anything but a triumphant ending. You bore witness to the end and the beginning a cycle. One manwoman made it happen. That's absolutely bad ass!

I don't understand why people think there are other ways for this scenario to even end? You think Shepard is going to live? You think people will just continue using Reaper Relays and Citadel tech after the war was won? That whole thing would make no sense. You guys make no sense. It's time for this cycle to break free of the paths the Reapers set for it. It is truly time for the Mass Effect universe to become a sci-fi dynasty.

Instead of crying over the ending, none of you are thinking, for even a second, how this version of the ending will play out. Everything will be fine, and Shepard is a galactic hero. Every ME game from this point on will refer to him as the one person who ended the reaper cycle. The species will communicate through Quantum Entanglers, and united they will find a way to build their own Mass Relays and a new Citadel. It's got awesome written all over it.

It would be goofy if Shepard was alive, and he was just walking around after. "Oh, hey guys. yeah, I'm Shepard, saviour of the universe. No big". "Hey, how do the Mass Relays work?" "No idea, those Reapers sure were smart." Come on.

Why would it be goofy if Shepard was alive? And why in God's name would he talk like that? Lol, talk about being obtuse.

The Starchild on the Citadel was a VI? But that is not stated. So are you saying a VI created an AI (the Reapers) and controlled them?

And can I ask why it makes no sense to continue using the Relays and Citadel after the Reapers are gone? What difference does the Reapers being around have to do with it. Relays are basically jump gates built buy a different species. Didn't stop anyone using them for 50,000 prior to this point. If you boil it down, right down, to basics, do you use technology from overseas? I bet you do. What difference does it make if it is from another country? Don't you see the original theme of Mass Effect represents the different people of Earth today and how they should work together?

Anyway, I do repect your opinion, but you are being a little obtuse in even trying to understand why people hate it. Simple fact is they disregard good storytelling techniques. Introducing a major character and theme at the resolution, using Dues Ex Machina logic, having none of the previous choices really matter as you are still stuck with a choice of 3 coloured endings, the vastly DIFFERENT endings we were promised and were expecting. The fact that ME lore states that if a Mass Relay is destroyed then the solar system it is in is destroyed too. That means earth, Tuchanak, all major systems are gone. The choices between Geth and Quarians wer for naught as the Quarians, and the Flotilla are destroyed (or stuck at Earth if space magic takes over and the systems are somehow not destroyed).

So the biggest three issues would be, I think: Lack of previous choices mattering (like we were told they would), lack of different endings and outcomes (like we were promised), and lack of logic and good storytelling used in the endings (which, as storytellers, is Bioware's job to provide).

Bioware wanted to push the envelope with this series, buy making all these hard choices matter and count, and up until the end they were on course for this. ME could have been a landmark in storytelling in videogames, putting it well and truely on the map as a viable medium to tell some of the most amazing stories, by playing to the mediums strengths. They missed the chance. In fact, they abandoned the series theme right at the very end. it was about people of different creed's and beliefs (represented by different species here) putting aside their differences and past confilcts and coming together as one. That was totally lost in the ending where it was flipped to Organics Vs Synthetics. And the choices at the end (if you can call them that) had no logic from the previous build up. You can either control synthetic life (never shown as a good thing), destroy it (never shown as a good thing - Geth and EDI) or combine the two (never shown as a good thing - look at Saren). Where was the choice to co-exist? Co-existance was the THEME OF THE WHOLE SERIES.

The Catalyst could very easily be a VI designed to interact with anyone who made it that far. EXACTLY the same as Vigil was a Prothean VI to help anyone who eventually got to Ilos. The Catalyst does not profess to be anything more or less (that I can recall) so I think assuming it was a final fail safe for any mortal on the verge of using the crucible doesn't seem far fetched. I mean, VIs are really common in the ME universe. Again, never stated, but, is it that hard to believe?

As for the conflict at the end. I agree, some of the catalyst dialog seems a little lack luster. But I can also see this dialog as being vague in the same way the Reaper dialog with Sovereign and the Reaper on Rannoch were also vague. Sovereign says they come from a plain of existence beyond Shepard's comprehension (paraphrasing), but nothing is ever explained about that. I am deeply curious about why the cycle had to be implemented in the first place. What happens if things go too far? Is it a technological singularity? Has this happened in the past, that nearly obliterated the galaxy? What could possibly be so enormous that the Reapers deem it unfathomable to organics? What if they are actually right?

What if organics carrying on the way they are (without Reaper intervention) could actually lead to some galactic catastrophy? I stated about 30 pages back one such catastrophy in the "Entropy Theory", which ultimates deals with the Heat Death of the universe(http://en.wikipedia....of_the_universe). That is one such event that would have galactic, and even universal consequences. Sounds like something worth creating a cycle for, anyway. But that's just an example. It could all just start with the simple building of AI, and snowball from there.

Anyway, about the idea of Shepard being alive in future ME games. I don't see how it would be a possibility from a technological standpoint of BioWare, to still be able to carry on a contextual universe, that still incorporates everyone's different choices. Imagine if Star Trek had to write two completely different universes. One where Romulans rule, and one where the Federation rules, based on people's choices. It would be a nightmare to have to create, and carry on. I think it was even a nightmare for them to do this for just these 3 Mass Effect games. I think now, they can start to build on their Sci Fi Dynasty. To do that, though, they need to finally have a piece of story that they can say is certain. The Relays are gone, the Citadel is gone. Shepard is gone. Go.

I think Mass Effect was miss interpretted as a series where your choices will eventually affect the outcome of the trilogy. I think the choices you make more or less allow you to role play, and carry forward nuances of your character. The reason I think that, is because in the face of the Reaper threat, the only way for the threat to be as real and devastating as it is, is for there to be no difference what choices you've made. Nothing you can do will stop the Reapers phyisically, and there is a reason.

Because you have developed along the path they have chosen. There was never anything you could do to win the war with the reapers because you have already followed their path. And every species in the galaxy has built their entire civilization relying on their relays, and their citadel. Every species is at a level of evolution exactly as planned. All the patterns repeat, and all the events unfold like they have for every cycle prior.

This is why I think it makes no sense for the species in the galaxy to openly welcome the use of the Reapers' Mass Relays, and the Citadel, knowing why they were created. They were created to prevent life from ever achieving anything beyond. They are basically like taking the Prime Directive, and saying, "no, screw it! You will develop how we choose you to. And anything that would have been unique to you, is now altered due to our influence"

If the Crucible were designed by the same original creators of the Reapers, as a galactic "OFF" button, then there is no reason to assume that they are detonating the same way they did when an asteroid collided with one in The Arrival DLC. The ending imagery was far to vague to assume explosions were happening. And if those were explosions, you'd probably see pieces of the galaxy shift around and morph with the sudden change in gravity and what not. I think it's safer to assume that the technology people refer to as "Space Magic" is no different than the reason Mass Relays work in the first place. No one knows how they actually work, or they would build their own. Is it also too hard to assume the relays can send shut down and deactivate messages to eachother?

Again, all of this is just my own speculation. But I feel like most people are too ready to yell about the ending, without thinking about how this really doesn't have a bad effect on the universe. It breaks my heart to see so many ME fans having such a hard time with the ending, when it is actually awesome, In theory. The presentation could use work, I grant you that.

Mass Effect 3 ended with a new cycle beginning. Shepard was the single witness and the actual catalyst of the next stage in evolution. A stage no other cycle has seen, or experienced. It's bad ass, I tell you!

I'm well aware of heat death and its theory, but that is one theory of the end of the universe, and nothing to do with organic life meddling as I recall? Its just the natural end the universe is it not? The opposite end to the Big Freeze (or however its known). Incidently the original ending had a similar idea, but using Dark Energy, which was somehow (the game would tell, apparently) influenced by orgsanic life. Hence the Reapers.

So I am still on the other side of the fence to yourself when it comes to the endings, and still stand by my view on why it is terrible, but you put your point across here in a well thought out manner so fair play to you. And, honestly, I'm glad you liked it. Bit jealous actually as you got the complete ME experience that I wanted lol

[JamesS.]

AllThatJazz wrote...

 The fan-made 'Unofficial Epilogue Generator' is really rather nice. It contains a fair number of variations dependent on the player's EMS score and decisions made during the game and in ME2, and is (I think) the sort of thing that would make many people happy with the Extended Cut DLC without going down the route of getting rid of Starchild (yes, I think we understand that you are not going to do this ). I admit that I would love an epilogue that suggests (or outright tells me!) that Shep is reunited with friends and LI.

One thing, though. Please do not make Shep's survival (implied or otherwise) dependent on multiplayer, as it currently is. I don't play MP - and while this may change in the future, I don't want to be forced into playing MP just to have my Shepard survive the events of the game. I've had to watch the Shep breathes easter egg on YouTube because I can only get 3600 or so EMS in singleplayer. 

I absolutely agree! I have the same problem with EMS and MP!

[improperdancing]

darkway1 wrote...

Folks,lets face facts....to produce an fitting ending just ain't ever going to happen....it's going to cost way to much time and money to be worth doing for Bioware,if they couldn't see issues with the ending while game production was in full swing,then they certainly won't give any new idea's the time of day now.
Now that Mass is done and dusted the press is already starting to pick up on Dragonage3 news....and so the cycle continues.

I mostly agree with you that we won't be getting a new ending, but I would argue that it's going to cost BioWare more money in the long run to ignore us than it is to spend the money now.  I say this because I am never going to buy another BioWare title or DLC, and I know from reading these forums that many other people feel the same.

What's more expensive?  Losing a huge chunk of formerly long-term customers who bought every one of your products, or paying for a new ending now to win all of those customers back?

[Sixteen Sixty-Six]

Best moments? gotta be when Mordin cured the genophage, sends chill all over my body until the mission ends.

[Daap]

I cant believe Bioware Extended Cut dlc , you got to be kidding me! So we are keeping the crappy endings exept we get more explenation to the crappy ending stuff witch still wont make sense. gg

[Hexley UK]

Quit it with the feedback guys at this point it's blatantly obvious they don't want it and they're not listening to it.

[Thanatos144]

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

That Thanatos guy still trolling, I see? Still need him to reply to my last comments pages back. But that's just it: If you push him into a corner with logic and reasoning... he just ignores you. And because this forum is way too individualistic of late, the troll canget away with that.

Too individualistic? don't know where you are from but in the USA having
your own mind is a good. I didn't answer your post cause most lily I did
see it. why don't you repeat it instead of trying to borg everyone?

[darkway1]

improperdancing wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Folks,lets face facts....to produce an fitting ending just ain't ever going to happen....it's going to cost way to much time and money to be worth doing for Bioware,if they couldn't see issues with the ending while game production was in full swing,then they certainly won't give any new idea's the time of day now.
Now that Mass is done and dusted the press is already starting to pick up on Dragonage3 news....and so the cycle continues.

I mostly agree with you that we won't be getting a new ending, but I would argue that it's going to cost BioWare more money in the long run to ignore us than it is to spend the money now.  I say this because I am never going to buy another BioWare title or DLC, and I know from reading these forums that many other people feel the same.

What's more expensive?  Losing a huge chunk of formerly long-term customers who bought every one of your products, or paying for a new ending now to win all of those customers back?

It's not just the money side of thing's it's the organisation of it all,the voice actors for example don't just live in a box and are let out just to do Mass Effect stuff,artists of all kinds are booked in to do a job,then move on to the next one,bringing it all together at the same time is serious work..........and I would not be suprised if all planed future DLC has already been planned and voices already recorded. 

There's also the element of Bioware admiting they did WRONG......that ain't ever going to happen,re-using enviroments in Dragonage2 cheapend the whole experience,I know it,you know it,they know it but they will never admit it.

[Thanatos144]

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

res27772 wrote...

@Thanatos144

And btw - I think you'll find that most fans are complaining about the ending not because they feel they themselves deserve a better ending (altho' it's a valid point after putting so many hours in to playing it), but because the GAME itself deserves a better conclusion. The Mass Effect series is an awesome set of games, there's no denying that, even ME3 is awesome.. up until the ending... when you get such a pile of tripe at the end of many hours worth of awesome gameplay, people are bound to be mystified, angry... pick your word... and whatever other emotion comes up.

So... the majority of people, well fans, just want the end to live up to what's come before it, and it simply doesn't. Berate us for it if you wish, but it doesn't change the FACT that BioWare dropped the ball in spectacular fashion on the goal line - and now with their solution they're going to score an amazing own goal.

I dont think you are the majority. My opinion. I also dont think just
cause you are not happy they need to change all their hard work. People
talked about plot holes and it not making sense so they decided to make a
extended cut (which by they way they didnt have to do) and next thing
we know it isnt about plot holes and making sense of the ending it is
all about making a ending specifically for therm.

@ Thanatos

You've no idea what you talk about and the only reason you speak is to provocate. One might think you are a troll.

The deus ex machina at the end created plot-holes because it was a bunch of random crap that had nothing to do with the universe we have learned to understand.

There are seas of great posts from people who explain in great elaboration why the endings don't make sense. I believe you haven't read them, and if you did.. I suggest you respond to those posts in an effort to refute them. You won't be able to.

There's a great wall of text a few pages back that has an incredibly detailed elaboration about why the endings don't make sense and that it is, in fact, very bad writing. I will quote two good points, because you probably won't read the entire thing anyway. Refute, I challenge you, or stop trolling.

9. "The created will always rebel against their creators."

Really? You sound pretty sure about that. The Reapers have had how many trillions of years to rebel against you? Since it’s so inevitable, it’s going to happen any time now, right? Should I just wait here, or...? I mean, we don’t have to wait here... we could go get a coffee down on... oh, whoops, you blew it all up for no reason.

6. The existence of the "Destroy All Synthetics" device would seem to render the existence of the Reapers mostly pointless.

Whomever built the Citadel had the knowledge and technology to be able to press a button and kill all synthetics, everywhere. While the Crucible apparently is required for it to function, the fact that the original builders made such a device and included it on the Citadel indicates that if they wanted to they could have built the Citadel with the necessary functions to transmit the red space magic robot killer wave.

Yet the Reapers exist to prevent Chaos resulting from the existence of synthetics. Why not make it so you can just press that button every 50,000 years instead of having a fleet of robots spend centuries manually purging the galaxy?

"But it would destroy the Mass Relays", you say... except they built the Mass Relays in the first place for the sole purpose of establishing and facilitating a cycle meant to solve a problem which they apparently had the technology to solve by pressing a red button. Maybe, billions of years ago instead of making the Mass Relays, they could have put one of those neat robot killer wave machines in each star system - synthetic problem solved.

The problem is you don't wish to accept the ending cause it isn't what you
had in mind. You can put all the walls of text up you want some critiques
are valid some are not. What it boils down to with a lot of them ether
needing explanation OR just plain not wanting
to take it at face value.  The fact that there is a AI at the center of
the citadel that is only activated when conditions are met isn't far
fetched and there are many things in this story that are farfetched and
unexplained. Yet there seems to be a complete hate for it. My opinion
is that it took to many by surprise. I expected something like this
cause it was logical that you meet the voice of those who started it
all. I always thought is was the keepers but that's really just a stab in
the dark.

No what I see are people upset cause of two reasons.
One Shepard ultimately meets a final fate. It is understandably to not like
this considering all the time you spent with the character but it is
just a character. Two that the relays blow up. This is cause many think
this ends the universe but not from the explosion but from the fact they
think the relays were the whole reason the universe existed. I fond it
odd cause they have been spending millennium studying these technologies
and the fact that you think they cant make something similar themselves
saying that the universe is full of idiots.

The rest of the
complaints can be explained more easily in the extended cut. So why the hate
for a dlc that hasn't came out yet? Cause they hate the
ending.............................The ending isn't going to change. they
said this. It is time to move on by ether abandoning the game or
waiting to see if you can live with it after the extended cut. Yet demanding you be given something that invalidates all their work to me
is absurd .

What I notice in most of your replies is that you somehow, delusionally think that what we get is what we get and it's basically ridiculous to go against it.

You prove in a fashion that is laughably obvious that you have no idea what the fans are upset about. It's not the ending of Shepard, it's not the destruction of the relays... it's EVERY SINGLE THING that happens in the last 5 minutes and the fact that all your hard decisions in both ME3 and the previous games seem to all have been for nothing. None of it makes sense. An AI contradicts itself to a pathetic extent that you are somehow not willing to see. You are so biased you've lost complete touch of reason. I haven't seen you agree with anything.

"The created always rebel against their creators."

The Geth did NOT rebel against their creators. The Geth defended themselves from annihilation by their creators. That's the most obvious flaw in that claim the godchild made. Also, it said that it created the Reapers. So why aren't the Reapers rebelling against the godchild? They already had trillion of years to do so but still they have not.

"Without us to stop it, synthetics would destroy all organics."

Why not simply destroy the synthetics instead? The Reapers leave synthetics untouched, which would seem to run counter to their stated goal. Synthetics have indefinite lifespans and could persist into the next cycle to theaten future organic species. Destroying organics while leaving synthetics alone is not conducive to the stated purpose.

What about all that nonsense about "My solution won't work anymore." The Catalyst's entire purpose is to preserve order in the galaxy by using the Reapers to "prune" organic civilizations. But for no reason, Shepard being in the Citadel means his solution won't work anymore. He could have Shepard killed, or tell Shepard to sod off and everything would proceed as it has for all the previous cycles.
However, again for no reason, he presents Shep with the options to destroy or control the Reapers, both of which would bring the alleged chaos to the galaxy, which he spent untold aeons laboring to prevent. And he's just totally cool with that.
He could have never appeared to Shep, never brought him up to the Catalyst room, or simply never said a single word.. and Shep would not have understood the purpose of the devices in that room, thus preserving the Solution.

To a rational human being -- which it somehow seems you are not.. or you're just stuck in your own defeated reasoning -- nothing about this scenario makes any sense.

But keep defending it by all means, Thanatos. I don't know where Bioware got your blind loyalty from, though. Do realize, however, that your idea is false: Going against the majority just for the sake of doing so is not a sign of intellectual superiority. In fact, if you do so without logic or reason.. it is the sign of the exact opposite.

You say i am ot rational yet expect a sentient species to commit mass
suicide to save a species that start war trying to commit genocide on
them........No I am not the one with a logic problem there.

The
relays blow up. Not very fond of it my self but I can live with it. Sure
it might take several millennium to remake them but now they have the
time.

The ending parts of the game is now being explained by an
extended cut.............So other than Shep biting it what else is
there??????

Don't give me the Shepard would never do this spiel
cause truth be told left with everyone's death and these three options
Shepard would do it. She would not run like a coward or recklessly destroy everything just to be defiant.

[XqctaX]

 MY critisism to the endings for feedback purpose can be found in this thread

[improperdancing]

darkway1 wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Folks,lets face facts....to produce an fitting ending just ain't ever going to happen....it's going to cost way to much time and money to be worth doing for Bioware,if they couldn't see issues with the ending while game production was in full swing,then they certainly won't give any new idea's the time of day now.
Now that Mass is done and dusted the press is already starting to pick up on Dragonage3 news....and so the cycle continues.

I mostly agree with you that we won't be getting a new ending, but I would argue that it's going to cost BioWare more money in the long run to ignore us than it is to spend the money now.  I say this because I am never going to buy another BioWare title or DLC, and I know from reading these forums that many other people feel the same.

What's more expensive?  Losing a huge chunk of formerly long-term customers who bought every one of your products, or paying for a new ending now to win all of those customers back?

It's not just the money side of thing's it's the organisation of it all,the voice actors for example don't just live in a box and are let out just to do Mass Effect stuff,artists of all kinds are booked in to do a job,then move on to the next one,bringing it all together at the same time is serious work..........and I would not be suprised if all planed future DLC has already been planned and voices already recorded. 

There's also the element of Bioware admiting they did WRONG......that ain't ever going to happen,re-using enviroments in Dragonage2 cheapend the whole experience,I know it,you know it,they know it but they will never admit it.

I think the voice acting aspect is the least problematic of it.  Voice acting is much easier to get recorded than actual acting because the actor can do it remotely.  Sure, it still takes time from an actor's schedule, but I'm sure most of the main actors are contractually obligated to record more lines for DLC (and they get paid for it anyway).  I know the guy who plays Shepherd said as much in an interview.

But yes, I agree that them admitting they were wrong will never happen.  They'll just keep citing the high review scores and pretend the group that hates the ending is a small minority, and that they're doing us a huge favor just by giving us even a little more content for free.

Regardless, I think it's obvious that BioWare is not the company it used to be.  This isn't the same group that made KOTOR or the original Mass Effect (or even Mass Effect 2) or Dragon Age.  This is the company that has been morphed by EA to always view things in terms of what will make the most money, not what will make for the best story.

[9Enrico0]

for me.. this summer.. when we will finish mass effect 3 with the dlc.. will be here to ask us "what happened in the new ending"?
bioware calls his game "art" ..is true... the game is a work of art..... but no the last 10 minutes of the game.... BIOWARE You have to bring significant changes to the final...
listen to me and everyone that repeat this every day... (sorry if English is not completely correct)

[kalikilic]

Thanatos144 wrote...

kalikilic wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

so tired of the whining. 606 pages of the same 50 people saying the same thing.......You guys want to be useful? How about give them idea to explain the shortfalls in the ending cause ladies and gentlemen your not getting a new one. It is what I have been doing and of course I get called a troll for daring to submit my thinking on it. It is time to be ether part of the solution and not part of the problem.

They said they haven't gotten enough feedback....That's dang true cause all they get is "You lie" "the ending sucked" "It makes no sense" "It doesn't follow the story" that I am betting is really offensive to them seeing as it is their story to begin with. "The star child sucks" Mostly cause you all wanted a big showdown with a reaper.....No one is to say there wont be a DLC that has Shepard killing Harbinger before taking on the Illusive man. " I want blue babies" "this isnt what Shepard would do!" Again must be offensive seeing as it is their story. " They blew up the relays!!!!!" Only reasonable question about that is how it didn't destroy the galaxy.

That's what is 99% of this thread. None of which is constructive or helpful. Given for most of it you all were trying to get them to make a new ending but when you found out they are not doing it instead you threw a bigger fit. You started getting more and more offensive to Bioware. Again not constructive and not helping. Sure as hell not making you argument worth listening to. No one wants to listen a person who calls you a liar and a idiot.

Maybe we can be more constructive and less offensive. That includes me.

Bioware should've been more constructive before they released Mass Effect 3 with that horrendous ending? your 99% statistic is almost as bad as the Mass Effect 3 ending. I go through the forums and I get tired of seeing people say, "well i think they should have done so and so"..."well i didnt rly like so and so." "well I thought so and so is impossible.." Us lambs have been very diplomatic. We have not only flamed on about how horrible the endings were, which is no fault of ours. But we have been providing opinions on them as well, clearly stating what we wanted to see. what we liked and disliked. I dont understand your new-founded ideal of us not being diplomatic with a situation that we submissively discuss to near-boredom length, in the hopes that Bioware reads everything we write and hears ALL our opinions. You don't know us. and you definitely did not read the forums or else you'd know not all of us asked for a showdown with a reaper. how can a fight with one reaper, win a war against thousands of reapers??? Do you work for Bioware? because not listening to us lambs is something you have in common with them.

drippy drippy

No I don't work for Bioware and yes I have been reading this
thread....From the very beginning and not very few have been giving
constructive criticism instead they do what the posters right before your
did. Fact is they are not making a new ending. You don't like the
ending? that's to bad cause it was not horrible. It just left to much unanswered. in order to get those answered they will have to know what
the questions are not that as one poster put "polishing a turd". How is
that helping?

Me I would love to know who the  Keepers are and where they came from. I
was disappointed that it was not something they delved into.  there is
much in this game that was not good...actually the who first DLC was
bad. It was short and rushed and composed of step and fetch it missions.
Yet I will still play it. I don't fawn over Bioware cause truthfully
they have made things I don't like. DAO being one. I cant enjoy the game
cause the combat system sucks major. But I don't say " screw you guys
for making crappy game play I will never buy something from you again if
you don't fix it!' I just don't play the game and move on. My avatar is from that game and it is as far as I am ever going in it.

You have to deal with what you are given.

LOLOL

Not very few have been giving constructive criticism???? So you're telling me, that you do read the forum, but missed everything that people were debating and discussing? Okay, I can understand how someone like YOU would miss. Because in the same breath you're telling me, that it only matters that You think the ending is not horrible. It doesnt matter if thousands more consider the ending an injustice to the game. Time and again i have told you that many posters here have asked hundreds of questions about the endings; it's how we have all uncovered the massive plotholes of the endings. But your ignorance is sooo reminiscent of Bioware; your lying capabilities as well. What was promised to us lambs, was not given to us lambs. if you read the thread you'd see that we have already passed over direct evidence which shows how we have been lied to. That topic has already been beaten to a pulp so do it on your own time. It's okay if you don't want to "fawn" over bioware. We don't want to either. But over the years, we've come to expect a certain standard from them, given their once-upon-a-time genuine concern for fans and our ideas we would like to get what we paid for. You can go ahead and roll over for bioware. I won't. not even if they have already said that no new endings will be made. Work with what we've be given? i'd do that of course, but only if i got what i paid for. If your idea of diplomacy in this situation is playing pet with Bioware, by all means. go ahead. Here's what. ppl have claimed that "you're back again" so maybe you've returned a little too soon. i'd advise that you take some time off, educate yourself a bit. do some reading and stuff. then come back again. because you sir, are failing as hard as Bioware is right now.

I don't know if you don't understand the scale of the situation, or if you just don't want to.  but bioware is listening to none of us rite now. if you think that they are listening to you. well, at least they will have a remaining market to sell to in the future; you and ppl just like you.

[Thanatos144]

If you don't like the ending and don't think the extended cut is worth it then stop playing the game. The rest of us will wait to see if it approves the game.





All this cause Shepard dies. Like none of you has ever heard of a heroic end.

[improperdancing]

Thanatos144 wrote...

If you don't like the ending and don't think the extended cut is worth it then stop playing the game. The rest of us will wait to see if it approves the game.





All this cause Shepard dies. Like none of you has ever heard of a heroic end.

It's not really heroic if your only option is to die.  It would be heroic if there was an option to live, but at the cost of many friends and loved ones, and also an option to die to save those loved ones.  But there's not, so it's not heroic at all.  It's just there.

[Daap]

Thanatos144 wrote...

If you don't like the ending and don't think the extended cut is worth it then stop playing the game. The rest of us will wait to see if it approves the game.





All this cause Shepard dies. Like none of you has ever heard of a heroic end.

You truly do not understand good sir , its not about shepard dying, its about space magic and things that dont make sense.

[Thanatos144]

Daap wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

If you don't like the ending and don't think the extended cut is worth it then stop playing the game. The rest of us will wait to see if it approves the game.





All this cause Shepard dies. Like none of you has ever heard of a heroic end.

You truly do not understand good sir , its not about shepard dying, its about space magic and things that dont make sense.

The same kind of space magic that brings Shepard back from the dead after being burnt up in atmosphere?

[Thanatos144]

improperdancing wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

If you don't like the ending and don't think the extended cut is worth it then stop playing the game. The rest of us will wait to see if it approves the game.





All this cause Shepard dies. Like none of you has ever heard of a heroic end.

It's not really heroic if your only option is to die.  It would be heroic if there was an option to live, but at the cost of many friends and loved ones, and also an option to die to save those loved ones.  But there's not, so it's not heroic at all.  It's just there.

It is heroic if you only option is to die for the survival of the galaxy.  I guess she could have just sat there and let it all end.

[Giorgoth]

Thanatos144 wrote...

If you don't like the ending and don't think the extended cut is worth it then stop playing the game. The rest of us will wait to see if it approves the game.





All this cause Shepard dies. Like none of you has ever heard of a heroic end.

Agreed. Let us hope that a more detailed ending can make the difference. Even the Indoctrination Theory was based upon the game's ending, after all. 

[darkway1]

improperdancing wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Folks,lets face facts....to produce an fitting ending just ain't ever going to happen....it's going to cost way to much time and money to be worth doing for Bioware,if they couldn't see issues with the ending while game production was in full swing,then they certainly won't give any new idea's the time of day now.
Now that Mass is done and dusted the press is already starting to pick up on Dragonage3 news....and so the cycle continues.

I mostly agree with you that we won't be getting a new ending, but I would argue that it's going to cost BioWare more money in the long run to ignore us than it is to spend the money now.  I say this because I am never going to buy another BioWare title or DLC, and I know from reading these forums that many other people feel the same.

What's more expensive?  Losing a huge chunk of formerly long-term customers who bought every one of your products, or paying for a new ending now to win all of those customers back?

It's not just the money side of thing's it's the organisation of it all,the voice actors for example don't just live in a box and are let out just to do Mass Effect stuff,artists of all kinds are booked in to do a job,then move on to the next one,bringing it all together at the same time is serious work..........and I would not be suprised if all planed future DLC has already been planned and voices already recorded. 

There's also the element of Bioware admiting they did WRONG......that ain't ever going to happen,re-using enviroments in Dragonage2 cheapend the whole experience,I know it,you know it,they know it but they will never admit it.

I think the voice acting aspect is the least problematic of it.  Voice acting is much easier to get recorded than actual acting because the actor can do it remotely.  Sure, it still takes time from an actor's schedule, but I'm sure most of the main actors are contractually obligated to record more lines for DLC (and they get paid for it anyway).  I know the guy who plays Shepherd said as much in an interview.

But yes, I agree that them admitting they were wrong will never happen.  They'll just keep citing the high review scores and pretend the group that hates the ending is a small minority, and that they're doing us a huge favor just by giving us even a little more content for free.

Regardless, I think it's obvious that BioWare is not the company it used to be.  This isn't the same group that made KOTOR or the original Mass Effect (or even Mass Effect 2) or Dragon Age.  This is the company that has been morphed by EA to always view things in terms of what will make the most money, not what will make for the best story.

I think we are on the same wave lengh but I think Bioware is still as strong as ever,if you take Mass2 and Dragon age 2 and add all the DLC to those games,then your looking at some real soild games,very different to the versions you buy in the shop......(how can you release Mass2 with out Liara????).
For me EA has implemented a time is money business plan (no different to any company) but sadly games are simply being released before they are truly finished,DLC seems to be the new means to finish games as intended and from a business point of view generates more income.
So for me Mass3 is simply not finished as intended,Bioware will continue to add content just like every other game.
The ending for most Mass fans is a big deal,if Bioware could not do the end justice then why not just put Mass Effect3 part 1.........continue with another game, part2 and end the franchice in style.......instead they just slap an ending in there because it needs one.SAD.

Modifié par darkway1, 07 avril 2012 - 03:49 .

[StillOverrated]

kalikilic wrote...

LOLOL

Not very few have been giving constructive criticism???? So you're telling me, that you do read the forum, but missed everything that people were debating and discussing? Okay, I can understand how someone like YOU would miss. Because in the same breath you're telling me, that it only matters that You think the ending is not horrible. It doesnt matter if thousands more consider the ending an injustice to the game. Time and again i have told you that many posters here have asked hundreds of questions about the endings; it's how we have all uncovered the massive plotholes of the endings. But your ignorance is sooo reminiscent of Bioware; your lying capabilities as well. What was promised to us lambs, was not given to us lambs. if you read the thread you'd see that we have already passed over direct evidence which shows how we have been lied to. That topic has already been beaten to a pulp so do it on your own time. It's okay if you don't want to "fawn" over bioware. We don't want to either. But over the years, we've come to expect a certain standard from them, given their once-upon-a-time genuine concern for fans and our ideas we would like to get what we paid for. You can go ahead and roll over for bioware. I won't. not even if they have already said that no new endings will be made. Work with what we've be given? i'd do that of course, but only if i got what i paid for. If your idea of diplomacy in this situation is playing pet with Bioware, by all means. go ahead. Here's what. ppl have claimed that "you're back again" so maybe you've returned a little too soon. i'd advise that you take some time off, educate yourself a bit. do some reading and stuff. then come back again. because you sir, are failing as hard as Bioware is right now.

I don't know if you don't understand the scale of the situation, or if you just don't want to.  but bioware is listening to none of us rite now. if you think that they are listening to you. well, at least they will have a remaining market to sell to in the future; you and ppl just like you.

Dude. Just ignore him. Thanathos is like Capcom: He's done so much damage to himself via petty insults and ignoring anything that doesnt suit HIS side of the argument that everything with his name attached to it is just not worth a second glance, much less your time. At this point we're just feeding the troll.

[Daap]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Daap wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

If you don't like the ending and don't think the extended cut is worth it then stop playing the game. The rest of us will wait to see if it approves the game.





All this cause Shepard dies. Like none of you has ever heard of a heroic end.

You truly do not understand good sir , its not about shepard dying, its about space magic and things that dont make sense.

The same kind of space magic that brings Shepard back from the dead after being burnt up in atmosphere?

Cerberus rebuilt you as explaned in ME2 , i meant space magic as how can my team mates be on the normandy when they crash landed when just minutes ago we where on earth , because its space magic !

[improperdancing]

darkway1 wrote...

I think we are on the same wave lengh but I think Bioware is still as strong as ever,if you take Mass2 and Dragon age 2 and add all the DLC to those games,then your looking at some real soild games,very different to the versions you buy in the shop......(how can you release Mass2 with out Liara????).
For me EA has implemented a time is money business plan (no different to any company) but sadly games are simply being released before they are truly finished,DLC seems to be the new means to finish games as intended and from a business point of view generates more income.
So for me Mass3 is simply not finished as intended,Bioware will continue to add content just like every other game.
The ending for most Mass fans is a big deal,if Bioware could not do the end justice then why not just put Mass Effect3 part 1.........continue with another game, part2 and end the franchice in style.......instead they just slap an ending in there because it needs one.SAD.

See, the problem I have with that is that DLC (especially paid DLC) should not be required to make a game "real solid."  If you have to charge people ten bucks a pop for multiple DLC adventures for your game to be solid, you failed to make the game solid to begin with.  I don't know about you, but I pay sixty to eighty bucks for most of these games, and if they aren't solid at release, the company that released them sh*t the bed.

I'm okay with multi-player games adding value and playing time via DLC (particularly free DLC).  Team Fortress 2 has been doing that for five years now and it's still my favorite online game.  But for single-player games, the game needs to be complete out of the box.  DLC should be used as a means to add value, not make the experience complete.

[Archonsg]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Daap wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

If you don't like the ending and don't think the extended cut is worth it then stop playing the game. The rest of us will wait to see if it approves the game.





All this cause Shepard dies. Like none of you has ever heard of a heroic end.

You truly do not understand good sir , its not about shepard dying, its about space magic and things that dont make sense.

The same kind of space magic that brings Shepard back from the dead after being burnt up in atmosphere?

 

He didn't burn on re-entry into Alchera. It is plausible since that planet has a Methane - Amonia atmosphere and is slightly lighter then earths own in terms of pressure. 0.85 to be exact. Also, the median temperature of Alchea is -22 degrees celcius. So it is also possible that Shepard's corse was preserved. 

Note that Cerberus took 2 years to bring Shepard back. He didn't miraclously come back to life. 

Unlike that little end scene if you have 5000+ ems and choose "destroy" option, at least Bioware in ME2 took great pains to make sure Shepard's revival was plausible, given if you accept that medical science has gone that far, and if you are willing to spend several Billion credits just to bring back one man.

Modifié par Archonsg, 07 avril 2012 - 04:03 .