23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic Budah]

I posted this in another thread, but it seems more fitting here.


Like the Protheans and all them Batarian Cannibals, Bioware is a victim of Indoctrination, Corporate Indoctrination.

They made some awesome games before EA got their hooks, and input into them. Like a Reaper swooping in on a child playing with a toy in a cornfield, EA indoctrinated Bioware into the corporate culture. They went from well thought out, well crafted games, to rushed pieces of Elcor dung like Dragon Age 2. Instead of a game for the gamers, it became a game that was cost effective and could generate the most money through DLC.

Artistic integrity had nothing to do with changing the ending, it was the cost. The cost/benefit analysis did not support them changing the ending with free DLC. Hiring actors, production costs in general, no....they were not going to take a loss for their customers satisfaction. The same people who have supported them loyally throughout the years.

This is not the Bioware we once knew. Benezia couldn't beat indoctrination, Saren couldn't, the Illusive man couldn't. We must all face the simple fact that Bioware is gone, assimilated by the corporate Reaper EA.

Will they listen to their fans? Yes. But they do not fear us. Their response and actions will be emotionless and without mercy.

Until the next cycle.....Hold the Line!

[crimsontotem]

I seriously think Indoc theory is the way to go here... it fills many plot holes that are created in the last ten minutes. they don't have to use it 100% but i think they should definitely uses the indoc theory ideas.

[ozymand1as]

I don't think you are listening. One day you say we are listening, and the other you post an official post saying that there will be a DLC that will expand on the ending, but there won't be any change to the so called "artistic ending". I would rather just give up hope right here, than keep hoping that you would see that we are unsatisfied. Thank you for the huge disappointment.

Modifié par ozymand1as, 08 avril 2012 - 04:50 .

[jeweledleah]

xjmz250 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

xjmz250 wrote...

Ok. So ive been thinking a lot about the ending. Think about why we went to Earth. The citadel is above earth and we need to get inside. OK. But think about this, What about the conduit? Its essentially a back door into the citadel. We didnt even need the teleporter on Earth to get where we were going. Almost all of the reapers fortified Earth as strongly as possible so for the normandy to slip back to Ilos by itself would be a piece of cake. Vigil may have went offline but the conduit just closed. Its not like we broke it. Am i right or is there a giant piece of information that im missing that shows all of Ilos burst into flames and the conduit in ruins?

not to mention.  if reapers have the Citadel, that means they have acess to master control.  you know that thing in ME1, that would allow them to take controll of every single relay, shut it down and all?  why are the relays still working?

and all these questions is why you dont just have couple of people write something, without editing, team imput, fact checking etc.

The Reapers took the citadel and we immediately attacked them so i dont think that they even had the time to activate master control. Let alone the fact that it was Saren that was connecting soverign to the citadel from the inside. It wasnt soverign himself at the control panel

no, it was actualy.  Saren was only necessary to open and close Citadel arms, making sure that asari Citadel control doesn't defend the Citadel before Sovereign can fly in.  Sovereign was the one interfacing.  and again, if they had time to get to the Citadel and get it to  earth.....  I'm sure they had PLENTY of time to interface with it too.  I'm guessing its just one more thing writers forgot about.

[xjmz250]

jeweledleah wrote...

xjmz250 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

xjmz250 wrote...

Ok. So ive been thinking a lot about the ending. Think about why we went to Earth. The citadel is above earth and we need to get inside. OK. But think about this, What about the conduit? Its essentially a back door into the citadel. We didnt even need the teleporter on Earth to get where we were going. Almost all of the reapers fortified Earth as strongly as possible so for the normandy to slip back to Ilos by itself would be a piece of cake. Vigil may have went offline but the conduit just closed. Its not like we broke it. Am i right or is there a giant piece of information that im missing that shows all of Ilos burst into flames and the conduit in ruins?

not to mention.  if reapers have the Citadel, that means they have acess to master control.  you know that thing in ME1, that would allow them to take controll of every single relay, shut it down and all?  why are the relays still working?

and all these questions is why you dont just have couple of people write something, without editing, team imput, fact checking etc.

The Reapers took the citadel and we immediately attacked them so i dont think that they even had the time to activate master control. Let alone the fact that it was Saren that was connecting soverign to the citadel from the inside. It wasnt soverign himself at the control panel

no, it was actualy.  Saren was only necessary to open and close Citadel arms, making sure that asari Citadel control doesn't defend the Citadel before Sovereign can fly in.  Sovereign was the one interfacing.  and again, if they had time to get to the Citadel and get it to  earth.....  I'm sure they had PLENTY of time to interface with it too.  I'm guessing its just one more thing writers forgot about.

You're right about that i forgot about that point but still the reapers couldnt open the citadel up to interface with it AND keep us out with the crucible at the same time so it was either open the arms and control the relays while letting the crucible through or forget about controlling the relays for a little bit but prevent the crucible from docking

[Thanatos144]

StillOverrated wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
Actually the ending works fine. it is the small areas in the ending
that leave holes. Like how did joker get the crew on board and things of
that nature......Even the relays being destroyed is logical cause they
were traps built by the reapers to gauge when a civilization was mature
enough to bear watching. Even AI or VI is smart cause the reapers have
been shown as single purpose machines with very little individual
though. I even think the three ending is fine cause that as much as you
got in the third game. There are a multitude of ways this game ends but
most end in failure which to many seem to think isn't an end....It is by
the way.

Okay, let's start by saying that game over screens aren't acceptable endings. Not by today's gaming standards. Back in the Mario vs Donkey Kong or Space Invaders day it might have been. But not today. and especially not in a story-driven game. That being said, they could have made a game over screen work as an ending if they had let the Reapers win and the cycle continue. It worked on Silent Hill 3 : if rather than having Heather take the pill she got from her father you have her attack Claudia, the cycle of hatred is complete and the evil god is born. Heather dies, Claudia wins. A game over that works as an ending. But the Critical Mission Failure screens alone do not an ending make.
Then we're going to "no. That ending doesn't work because it deviates from what made the series sell in the first place." I get what they were trying to do with the destruction of the relays. I do, honestly. We have to get rid of all Reaper technology. Unfortunately that gets all thrown out the window when they tell us that the Reapers themselves less like threat and more like some VI's playthings. And another thing. The VI tells you it controls the Reapers only to say it can control them anymore on the same sentence. Why? Never explained.
Then they introduce a concept that, had they mentioned it before they introduced you to Legion and EDI, people would have accepted it at face value. Because we had just finished a war with the Geth and, for all we knew, they thought organics weren't useful so screw 'em. The biggest mistake was introducing that plot point in the end of the third game. After Legion tells you the Geth don't want war, they just want to curl up into a hub and have virtual tea or something, and after EDI tells you she's willing to sacrifice herself for Joker and the crew because she doesn't wanna function on the same logic as the Reapers even when she has Reaper technology within her, telling us that "lol creators are always gonna rebel against the created" doesn't work. It contradicts what was established DURING THE COURSE OF THE GAME. That's called "bad writing".

And yeah. I know you're all unicorn and rainbows since they've announced they won't be changing the endings and don't wanna talk about what they did wrong but you have to take this into account: we're not angry that Shepard dies. We're angry about A LOT of things. None of them are related to Shepard dying per se. We're angry because we were lied to. No, it wasn't a "oh, we are working on this and we might be able to add 16 endings if time allows it" or "Oh, the Rachni queen may or may not play an important part in the end. Stay tuned to find out." They said "Hell yes! We're doing this ****! We're adding SIX-TEEN endings! We're totally gonna give you many different endings based on your actions a-la Dragon Age: Origins, so you'll be able to replay it as many times as you want!" and "yeah! The Rachni queen is gonna have a huge impact in the end, so you're probably gonna want to keep her alive!".
Settling for less than you paid for is why EA keeps pulling stunts like these. It's like paying for a Sundae and getting a lemon pop. I'm not gonna stop until they give me my Sundae. That simple.
I know for a fact BioWare is better than this.

i actually wouldnt have minded more endings. Who wouldnt want more content? I just dont think they need to.  Nor should they just to please a few who just dont like the ending and will never like the ending unless it was just what they wanted.

By the way I have several games that say game over thank you.

[Thanatos144]

akuma1973 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

I wrote...  That's where your wrong, there are two options missing at the end which my Shep would have chosen. The first Option:
Since Starchild says he controls the  Reapers. have Him contact the reapers who are all sentient and therfore understand self preservation, and tell them if they don't get the hell out of my galaxy and never return I will destroy them all. They understand this and leave, we win  lots of lives saved. Star Child gets spaced. Anderson Wakes up from his afternoon Nap, Jack makes lots of tatooed pscho Biotic Babies with Shep who like to torture Uncle Wrex.

The Second Option. Star Child refuses to contact The Reapers, I tell him to frak himself and then let Hackett know the Crucible was another reaper lie, but since I have an EMS of 7000+ I have more than twice the military strength of the Reapers. Space battles begin Reapers get Pushed back, faced with imminent anihilation the retreat into Dark Space. We win lots of lives lost, but galaxy and civilization saved. 
Star Child gets spaced. Anderson Wakes up from his afternoon Nap, Jack makes lots of tatooed pscho Biotic Babies with Shep who like to torture Uncle Wrex. 

Both of those choices are choices The Shepard I played would have made. He would never have picked any of the 3 options currently given. He would not have listened to the thing which says it created the Reapers. He had no reason to listen to it's lies, let alone trust it. For bioware to ignore that fact that we as the fans and the people who breathed life into this world, understand that the ending is flawed in so many ways and they are too stubborn to admit that everything Shep does after killing TIM is completely out of character with the last 90 hours of gameplay is just insulting to all of us, even those who can't or refuse to see the glraing holes in the end>

And at the end of the day EAWare wants to claim Artistic integrity? Yet how can they do this when in trying to do this they show they have absolutely no integrity after lying to us about the content of the game. Integrity coems with Honesty, and they have none if they stick to the ABC ending they promised us would not be in the game.

You projecting what you would do not what Shepard would do and you would be wrong cause it would lead to everyones death. Okay heading out..

Ah I see you seem to miss a simple concept when applied to this game:

This is a Roleplaying game, when I play the game I play Shepard. I am shepard. It is Roleplaying. I am not projecting what I would do I am roleplaying what my Shepard would do. This is why people choose to Play Roleplaying games rather than Mindless FPS clones.

And the choice would not be wrong, Because 1000's may die in option 2, but billions die in all 3 of the ABC endings.

This is a computer role playing game not a pencil and paper one.......It is impossible to have a game like that in this format.....there just inst enough people or manpower to run the game the way you seem to want it.

[jeweledleah]

xjmz250 wrote...

You're right about that i forgot about that point but still the reapers couldnt open the citadel up to interface with it AND keep us out with the crucible at the same time so it was either open the arms and control the relays while letting the crucible through or forget about controlling the relays for a little bit but prevent the crucible from docking

IF they knew about the crusible, they would have destroyed it before it was finished.  since they didn't destroy it?  they didn't know.  They didn't even need to take Citadel to earth.  they could have interfaced with it in Widow nebula and gone on with the Cycle as originaly planned - shutting down relays, stranding everyone where they were.  heck, even if they knew about the Crusible - interfacing with the Citadel to shut down relays means Crucible doesn't get to come thorugh aforementioned relay in a first place.  easier way to keep crucible out, you know.

methinks, reapers (and some of the bioware writers)  need to brush up on their evil overlord rules.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 08 avril 2012 - 05:09 .

[Thanatos144]

dea_ex_machina wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
Before I head out the door to work loet me tell you something if you dont like what I say do read it. Only those with weak arguments try to silence dissent.

People are desperately trying to shut you up because they grow tired of your redundant BS. And if you had read my reply to you before, you'd know that I already presented my arguments. But since you apparently missed my post, I'd be happy to just quote it for you so you can take your time, read it and answer accordingly, yes?

dea_ex_machina wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
All this cause Shepard dies. Like none of you has ever heard of a heroic end.

<rant>
I kinda have the feeling I'm kicking a dead horse by saying this... but ah well.
The huge outcry that went through the fandom is not caused by Shepard's death, it is caused by the utter lack of logic, plotholes and contradictions to Mass Effect lore and themes that have been present through all three games, save for the last, say, 15 minutes.
Fans are outraged because they have spent a lot of time building their character(s), exploring the ME universe and coming to care about the story and the characters and all they get is an A1/A2/A3 ending which
defies pretty much everything ME has been standing for, which is completely out of context and doesn't even make the least bit of sense.
Apart from that, it renders your previous efforts to destroy the reapers and save the galaxy useless as well as Shepard him-/herself because that stupid god child AI pops out of nowhere and is suddenly in charge, presenting three goddamn options to you that you are forced to choose from instead of telling the AI to get lost or throwing that little bastard out the next airlock.
This article sums up the flaws the ending suffered from pretty well. Read it. I dare you.
www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right

What's more is that BioWare promised up to 16 different endings, all dependent on the player's choices not only throughout ME3, but also throughout the entire series. They purposefully stirred their fans expectations. So fans paid for that kind of ending, but in the end, they didn't get what they were promised and ultimately paid for. If you didn't pay for what BioWare promised their fans in the first place, good for you. If you don't feel disappointed due to purposefully stirred expectations, good for you. If you thus don't feel pulled over the barrel, good for you.
But other fans paid for what was promised to them, they paid for BioWare to bring the ME saga to a decent closure, which they failed at in the eyes of the majority of players. And therefore, fans are angry. Not because they didn't get their "happily ever after" ending with rainbows and butterflies. If you continue thinking that, well, then I guess you continue missing our point. On purpose or not, I cannot say.
If BioWare ended up promising too much and not being able to handle all the different endings, I can accept that, hell I'd even understand it for I can imagine this to be a hell of a lot of work. But then they should  have the decency to admit that they screwed it up, take the goddamn baton for this mess and get it straight instead of stubbornly hiding behind their "artistic integrity" wall. The fans should not be the ones taking the rap for BioWare's mistakes.

We'll see how things turn out with the coming DLC. I don't know how they're going to fill the massive plotholes, fix the contradictions in ME lore and wave in more of the player's choices throughout all three games, but we'll see in
summer. Even though stupid star child won't be kicked out the airlock, I still hope the Extended Cut provides at least all the answers to the questions the current ending raised, as well as proper closure to an otherwise stellar trilogy.

A proper ending that makes sense, that's what fans want to see, and hell, they've given BioWare the chance to put things right with their massive protest. Please, BioWare. Don't screw it up a second time.
</rant>

Here you go, sweetheart. Have fun.

I am sorry I didnt know I had to answer another bull post about being promised something...

[StillOverrated]

Thanatos144 wrote...
I am sorry I didnt know I had to answer another bull post about being promised something...

How about you stop being redundant and tell us exactly why we shouldn't demand they give us what they promised ONE WEEK BEFORE THE GAME RELEASE? Oh, and by the way, Thanny, you STILL haven't answered my question. What makes the ending work? I'm waiting.

[xjmz250]

jeweledleah wrote...

xjmz250 wrote...

You're right about that i forgot about that point but still the reapers couldnt open the citadel up to interface with it AND keep us out with the crucible at the same time so it was either open the arms and control the relays while letting the crucible through or forget about controlling the relays for a little bit but prevent the crucible from docking

IF they knew about the crusible, they would have destroyed it before it was finished.  since they didn't destroy it?  they didn't know.  They didn't even need to take Citadel to earth.  they could have interfaced with it in Widow nebula and gone on with the Cycle as originaly planned - shutting down relays, stranding everyone where they were.  heck, even if they knew about the Crusible - interfacing with the Citadel to shut down relays means Crucible doesn't get to come thorugh aforementioned relay in a first place.  easier way to keep crucible out, you know.

methinks, reapers (and some of the bioware writers)  need to brush up on their evil overlord rules.

The Illusive Man told the reapers about the catalyst which means they must have known about the crucible. Surethet didnt know where we hid the damn thing but they had to have known it existed. So moving the citaled was still the best choice. What i wanna know though is how the hell dis the reapers FTL all the way to earth in under a year without ANY of the systems between the batarian relay (where is used to be anyway) and the local cluster seeing them or getting them on radar

[Thanatos144]

StillOverrated wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
I am sorry I didnt know I had to answer another bull post about being promised something...

How about you stop being redundant and tell us exactly why we shouldn't demand they give us what they promised ONE WEEK BEFORE THE GAME RELEASE? Oh, and by the way, Thanny, you STILL haven't answered my question. What makes the ending work? I'm waiting.

You can demand all you want but your not entitaled to a damn thing .....You should be happy you got the extended cut cause thats more than most would do.

[Thanatos144]

xjmz250 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

xjmz250 wrote...

You're right about that i forgot about that point but still the reapers couldnt open the citadel up to interface with it AND keep us out with the crucible at the same time so it was either open the arms and control the relays while letting the crucible through or forget about controlling the relays for a little bit but prevent the crucible from docking

IF they knew about the crusible, they would have destroyed it before it was finished.  since they didn't destroy it?  they didn't know.  They didn't even need to take Citadel to earth.  they could have interfaced with it in Widow nebula and gone on with the Cycle as originaly planned - shutting down relays, stranding everyone where they were.  heck, even if they knew about the Crusible - interfacing with the Citadel to shut down relays means Crucible doesn't get to come thorugh aforementioned relay in a first place.  easier way to keep crucible out, you know.

methinks, reapers (and some of the bioware writers)  need to brush up on their evil overlord rules.

The Illusive Man told the reapers about the catalyst which means they must have known about the crucible. Surethet didnt know where we hid the damn thing but they had to have known it existed. So moving the citaled was still the best choice. What i wanna know though is how the hell dis the reapers FTL all the way to earth in under a year without ANY of the systems between the batarian relay (where is used to be anyway) and the local cluster seeing them or getting them on radar

You under the illusion that the reapers used critical thinking. You have to remeber they were use to the culling taking at least a century so they thought they had plenty of time.

[jeweledleah]

xjmz250 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

xjmz250 wrote...

You're right about that i forgot about that point but still the reapers couldnt open the citadel up to interface with it AND keep us out with the crucible at the same time so it was either open the arms and control the relays while letting the crucible through or forget about controlling the relays for a little bit but prevent the crucible from docking

IF they knew about the crusible, they would have destroyed it before it was finished.  since they didn't destroy it?  they didn't know.  They didn't even need to take Citadel to earth.  they could have interfaced with it in Widow nebula and gone on with the Cycle as originaly planned - shutting down relays, stranding everyone where they were.  heck, even if they knew about the Crusible - interfacing with the Citadel to shut down relays means Crucible doesn't get to come thorugh aforementioned relay in a first place.  easier way to keep crucible out, you know.

methinks, reapers (and some of the bioware writers)  need to brush up on their evil overlord rules.

The Illusive Man told the reapers about the catalyst which means they must have known about the crucible. Surethet didnt know where we hid the damn thing but they had to have known it existed. So moving the citaled was still the best choice. What i wanna know though is how the hell dis the reapers FTL all the way to earth in under a year without ANY of the systems between the batarian relay (where is used to be anyway) and the local cluster seeing them or getting them on radar

ok, lets assume, illusive man told them about the crucible.  how is moving the Citadel a better choice then preventing the Crucible from getting to it in a first place?  by, you know, shutting down relays instead of wasting time and forces moving it, and then leaving themselves to be open to combined Galactic fleet to move in through still fucntional relays?  especialy since shutting down relays is their normal modus operandi, why would they change it all of a sudden, towards  a choice that puts them at a disadvantage?  or are they relaly that much of a stupid enemy? did they get neutered by the writers that much, that they went from unfathomable threat, to idiotic VI stuck in giant squid bodies?

as for them FTLing to earth without anyone noticing in under a year?  another one of those things they didn't really think through... unless Reapers went to another relay that we don't know about (aka - didn't activate yet)  and took that relay to Charon?

Modifié par jeweledleah, 08 avril 2012 - 05:30 .

[Omnike]

jeweledleah wrote...


ok, lets assume, illusive man told them about the crucible.  how is moving the Citadel a better choice then preventing the Crucible from getting to it in a first place?  by, you know, shutting down relays instead of wasting time and forces moving it, and then leaving themselves to be open to combined Galactic fleet to move in through still fucntional relays?  especialy since shutting down relays is their normal modus operandi, why would they change it all of a sudden, towards  a choice that puts them at a disadvantage?  or are they relaly that much of a stupid enemy? did they get neutered by the writers that much, that they went from unfathomable threat, to idiotic VI stuck in giant squid bodies?

as for them FTLing to earth without anyone noticing in under a year?  another one of those things they didn't really think through... unless Reapers went to another relay that we don't know about (aka - didn't activate yet)  and took that relay to Charon?

 

It actually would have made more sense. The onlyproblem with that is that we wouldn't have got to defend a truck for four hours and meet the VI that thought it all through very carefully. Oh wait...

Think about this. Imagine if they took Earth first using the first Mass Relay they reached (like the beginning of the game). Now imagine that instead of bringing the Citadel over London for protection or whatever, they sent out a couple hundred reapers do defend it and use the Illusive Man to control the arms and **** (like Sovereign). Then the Relays get destroyed. Well, that's already a major setback for the armada escorting the crucible, seeing as they can't just jump to the citadel. So now they have to take the time to move it to the crucible, in which time the Reapers could have destroyed every major planet. No chance for alternatives, and a slightly less smooth victory for the reapers. Again. 

Modifié par Omnike, 08 avril 2012 - 06:00 .

[jeweledleah]

they didn't even have to destroy the relays. just deactivate them. Citadel's master control allows for that. its how they harvested oh, every other civilization out there. its why them sticking to earth and not high tailing it to Citadel at the first opportunity and then going back to the rest of the galaxy, doesn't make any sense. well, it sorta makes sence in "we have to let the players win"  way

but at the same time, it neuters the reapers to the point of ridiculousness, by making them stupid instead of truly dangerous.

now that I think of it, the entire ME3 story is not very well thought out, but some of the parts of it are so good that you just let it slide.. if only the ending actualy matched the good parts...

I should have expected it after ME2.  after all - it was the same idea,  overall story lacked cohesion, but individual missions were fantastic.  I just forgave it all, because suicide mission rocked.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 08 avril 2012 - 06:11 .

[xjmz250]

jeweledleah wrote...

xjmz250 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

xjmz250 wrote...

You're right about that i forgot about that point but still the reapers couldnt open the citadel up to interface with it AND keep us out with the crucible at the same time so it was either open the arms and control the relays while letting the crucible through or forget about controlling the relays for a little bit but prevent the crucible from docking

IF they knew about the crusible, they would have destroyed it before it was finished.  since they didn't destroy it?  they didn't know.  They didn't even need to take Citadel to earth.  they could have interfaced with it in Widow nebula and gone on with the Cycle as originaly planned - shutting down relays, stranding everyone where they were.  heck, even if they knew about the Crusible - interfacing with the Citadel to shut down relays means Crucible doesn't get to come thorugh aforementioned relay in a first place.  easier way to keep crucible out, you know.

methinks, reapers (and some of the bioware writers)  need to brush up on their evil overlord rules.

The Illusive Man told the reapers about the catalyst which means they must have known about the crucible. Surethet didnt know where we hid the damn thing but they had to have known it existed. So moving the citaled was still the best choice. What i wanna know though is how the hell dis the reapers FTL all the way to earth in under a year without ANY of the systems between the batarian relay (where is used to be anyway) and the local cluster seeing them or getting them on radar

ok, lets assume, illusive man told them about the crucible.  how is moving the Citadel a better choice then preventing the Crucible from getting to it in a first place?  by, you know, shutting down relays instead of wasting time and forces moving it, and then leaving themselves to be open to combined Galactic fleet to move in through still fucntional relays?  especialy since shutting down relays is their normal modus operandi, why would they change it all of a sudden, towards  a choice that puts them at a disadvantage?  or are they relaly that much of a stupid enemy? did they get neutered by the writers that much, that they went from unfathomable threat, to idiotic VI stuck in giant squid bodies?

as for them FTLing to earth without anyone noticing in under a year?  another one of those things they didn't really think through... unless Reapers went to another relay that we don't know about (aka - didn't activate yet)  and took that relay to Charon?

Moving the Citadel made sense because you figure the reapers have been harvesting earth since the beginning. The only other places i can think that have as many reapers that you see at least over the entire game are Palavan and Thessia. so it would have to be moved to one of the three or else the reapers would just have to drop what they are doing and run to the Widow system? That doesnt make much sense. Earth was the first target so why not move it to Earth. Theres gotta be more reapers on Earth than any other one planet or system. So it would already be the most fortified.

And they couldnt have another relay that connects to charon directly because whenever you use the galaxy map it even show the relays dont work on a direct basis unless they are right next to each other. so the reapers would have passed im guessing at least 3 other systems. They would have had to show up SOMEWHERE if they were using relays like that. So it had to be standard FTL. Unless the reapers engines are somehow magical supercharged ftl drives i doubt they would be able to get to Earth unnoticed in that small amount of time

[Omnike]

You know what would have made more sense than anything? Let's say that the Reapers do have a center VI hiding in the Citadel that tells them what to do. You know what SHOULD have happened in that case? Shepard would be all like "hey kid, **** off we can sort this out". And the VI says "No". Cycle dies, Liara's box is found. Next trilogy. It may not be happy, but it would make a hell of a lot more sense than the scramble we got.

[Omnike]

xjmz250 wrote...
 Unless the reapers engines are somehow magical supercharged ftl drives i doubt they would be able to get to Earth unnoticed in that small amount of time

Well, space magic and teleportation have already been established in the ending...

[xjmz250]

Omnike wrote...

xjmz250 wrote...
 Unless the reapers engines are somehow magical supercharged ftl drives i doubt they would be able to get to Earth unnoticed in that small amount of time

Well, space magic and teleportation have already been established in the ending...

...Touche...But its only the ending that we let everyone teleport to whereever the hell they see fit so lets not give the reapers that power beforehand because everything made sense when it started

[Eralrik]

My friend went to Pax and was getting something to eat and drink an over heard a couple guys talking that they were paid to sit in the audience along with a few others to clap and woot! to get the others in the audience to clap as well.
That is bad that you would resort to that kind of manipulation and trickery, so it's obvious that they know their ending is bad, but won't admit it and apparently when he was listening to them talk it seemed forced and he said you could feel the arrogance roll down from the podium.
he said it felt like they were trying their darndest to make the fans feel guilty and relent to their artistic integrity that God would be in awe of if God had played ME3. <Where's Zeus and a few of his lightning bolts when ya need him.>
Ah well I see BW following the road of Interplay, Origin, Westwood and so many others in the coming years, its to bad they lost their creative mojo and settled for crap and the almighty dollar sign and corrupted the lot of em.

[jeweledleah]

xjmz250 wrote...

Moving the Citadel made sense because you figure the reapers have been harvesting earth since the beginning. The only other places i can think that have as many reapers that you see at least over the entire game are Palavan and Thessia. so it would have to be moved to one of the three or else the reapers would just have to drop what they are doing and run to the Widow system? That doesnt make much sense. Earth was the first target so why not move it to Earth. Theres gotta be more reapers on Earth than any other one planet or system. So it would already be the most fortified.

And they couldnt have another relay that connects to charon directly because whenever you use the galaxy map it even show the relays dont work on a direct basis unless they are right next to each other. so the reapers would have passed im guessing at least 3 other systems. They would have had to show up SOMEWHERE if they were using relays like that. So it had to be standard FTL. Unless the reapers engines are somehow magical supercharged ftl drives i doubt they would be able to get to Earth unnoticed in that small amount of time

you know that the map only shows clusters that we actualy mapped out right?  relays that we don't know about=relay that's not yet on a map. remember, earthlings were forbidden to try and open up new relays just like that, by the council.

that said, why woudln't Reapers drop everything, leave skeleton crews on planets already occupied and move en force to the Citadel, allowing them to deactivate ALL the relays at once, isolate the resistance and proceed with harvesting at their leasure.  seeing as current civilization haven't figured out how to move between clusters yet, without the use of relays. (FTL only gets you so far, before you have to discharge your core.. or fry)  or not move en mass.  it only took one reaper and a fleet of Geth, in ME1, to get to the Citadel and almost let the rest of the reapers in, if not for Shepard following behind Saren trhough conduit.  few more Sovereign class reapers, with Harby at the helm?  and they would have had this invasion in a bag.


in short.  entire story is flawed.  still woudln't have been so bad, if the ending was epic.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 08 avril 2012 - 06:22 .

[Omnike]

Eralrik wrote...

My friend went to Pax and was getting something to eat and drink an over heard a couple guys talking that they were paid to sit in the audience along with a few others to clap and woot! to get the others in the audience to clap as well.
That is bad that you would resort to that kind of manipulation and trickery, so it's obvious that they know their ending is bad, but won't admit it and apparently when he was listening to them talk it seemed forced and he said you could feel the arrogance roll down from the podium.
he said it felt like they were trying their darndest to make the fans feel guilty and relent to their artistic integrity that God would be in awe of if God had played ME3. <Where's Zeus and a few of his lightning bolts when ya need him.>
Ah well I see BW following the road of Interplay, Origin, Westwood and so many others in the coming years, its to bad they lost their creative mojo and settled for crap and the almighty dollar sign and corrupted the lot of em.

While yes I agree that they took the big fan outrage the wrong way, I do have my doubts if they paid people to cheer. Especially for a company that some are calling greedy.

[Thanatos144]

Omnike wrote...

xjmz250 wrote...
 Unless the reapers engines are somehow magical supercharged ftl drives i doubt they would be able to get to Earth unnoticed in that small amount of time

Well, space magic and teleportation have already been established in the ending...

just like all the other games.

[Jeebus1986]

Swordser wrote...

First of all, I truly appreciate BioWare for this series, and for the fact that they're listening to us and willing to work with us for the ending. In this, almost everyone here is alike. We really are appreciative of all that's happened, all the effort on BioWare's part, we are only upset with the last 1% of the series.

And now on to the rest. For all, I apologize for what might turn out as a wall of text...

That 1% is a huge issue, which is why we want it "fixed." It is also not something most developers would even think of changing, so this is a real credit to BioWare. What's not a credit to them is that the way they're fixing it is not even close to what we want.

BioWare, you've said you're listening, and I believe that, but Extended Cut is not, by any means, the answer you should be taking away from all this talk. We're not disappointed because the endings aren't explained, we're mad because the ending is broken. It can't be fixed by explaining it. In those last ten minutes of play time, you started to break the rules of your own created universe, you abandoned characters and the central conflict, arguably even the protagonist, and that's not something you can just explain away.

BioWare, I really do respect your stance to maintain the ending's "artistic integrity/vision," but what you don't understand is that it's that exact "artistic vision" we have a problem with. We don't like that Shepard meets a ghostly image of the kid he's been having nightmares about, who then explains that he created the Reapers for a hypocritical reason. We don't like that Shepard simply goes along with this. We don't like that he's basically just letting us win, because "hey, we worked pretty hard to get this far."

Explaining won't fix it. If you even can explain all of that, how the synthesis and control options even work, why Starchild was so concerned about Technological Singularity in the first place, why his solution was so hypocritical, that's great. But that's NOT what we want. That's NOT what is going to satisfy us (If I'm actually a minority in this opinion, so be it).

On another thread, since locked down due to destructive criticism, several rather outstanding members of the "new ending" party analyzed BioWare/EA's actions and advised the other members what to do. Regardless of the accuracy of their reading into the actions, their advice was simple and unanimous: Hold the line. Give no ground, do not relent, and don't let the issue drop, even a bit.

Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut is BioWare's compromise, one that does not meet our agendas, and one that will not be accepted on the current terms. We do not want the ending expanded, we want it changed. A compromise is fine, but we want a different ending, not an expansion for the current one.

Unless BioWare is withholding information on the Extended Cut (usually a good thing, but not with a subject so sensitive as this), and they really are making a substantial change (read: CHANGE) to the current ending, I will not accept this, and I know many others who think the same. A compromise this far to their side of the argument is unacceptable, a comrpomise that keeps the ending so close to untouched is insufficient. We will continue to push for a new ending, one that abides by the game's rules, one that doesn't need to be "clarified" later, one that doesn't kill our desire to play the single player, and most importantly, one that won't leave us feeling we've been betrayed by a company we truly do respect and love.

I urge everyone to do likewise. Do not accept this compromise, not on the terms of the ending staying. Continue to fight. We have the power as the consumer, the fan base, and we've proved that already. Continue to push for a new ending. We can do this.

Continue to hold the line, people.

Completely agree