23455 réponses à ce sujet

[AkaXan]

Rasofe wrote...

There's rumour it was Casey Hudson and the lead writer that developed the ending.

Then they should be fired as they clearly have no talent, their writing not only ignores Mass Effects own internal  lore and logic, it also brakes some very basic story writing/telling rules, which Bioware should really know.

Can I also point out that if Casey Hudson really did write the endings, then the hate is even more deserved. The promises he made in numerous interviews, that player choices matter and that to give Mass Effect an A' B or C type of ending would be doing wrong by the fans, was all lies, as he knew what he did to the ending and still told fans complete bs.

Modifié par AkaXan, 08 avril 2012 - 05:04 .

[camdy]

k177sh0t wrote...

ME3 is incredible from the start all the way up before the ending and  it just went downhill after that

First time I was emotionally attached to  video game characters (Garrus was well written and Liara). Mordin's death and Anderson actually made me shed manly tears. Im serious

It just added some confusion on mine

No epilogue of the surviving galactic species (Turian, Krogan, Asari, Human, Hanar, Volus, Battarian and Drell) and your Normandy crew

What happened to them? What's gonna happen to those who were not on their own planets?

What happened to the inhabitants of the Citadel? Were they evacuated?

What's the origin of the Reapers? Who created them? Organics or Intellectual Synthetics?

http://cdn2.gamefron...3/ME3yodawg.jpg

Choices were extremely limited in the end

i agree as i found the ending to be tacked on as it was the same,just that they swapped the blue light bulb out for the red one.

it does feel like you guys just took someone off the street that had no idea about the mass effect universe to make the ending and to be honest i think you guys let yourself's down as we all know you can do way better.

[Ralph The Wonder Llama]

I respectfully disagree, you are not listening.  It's not about you...  It's about the fans.  Change the ending.  Spielberg did it with Jurassic Park (read the book) and it was a success. 

[No_MSG]

camdy wrote...

k177sh0t wrote...

ME3 is incredible from the start all the way up before the ending and  it just went downhill after that

First time I was emotionally attached to  video game characters (Garrus was well written and Liara). Mordin's death and Anderson actually made me shed manly tears. Im serious

It just added some confusion on mine

No epilogue of the surviving galactic species (Turian, Krogan, Asari, Human, Hanar, Volus, Battarian and Drell) and your Normandy crew

What happened to them? What's gonna happen to those who were not on their own planets?

What happened to the inhabitants of the Citadel? Were they evacuated?

What's the origin of the Reapers? Who created them? Organics or Intellectual Synthetics?

http://cdn2.gamefron...3/ME3yodawg.jpg

Choices were extremely limited in the end

i agree as i found the ending to be tacked on as it was the same,just that they swapped the blue light bulb out for the red one.

it does feel like you guys just took someone off the street that had no idea about the mass effect universe to make the ending and to be honest i think you guys let yourself's down as we all know you can do way better.

No, no, no.  That was Mass Effect: Deception.  They're fixing that:
http://www.joystiq.c...es-in-future-e/

[EugeneBi]

I am pretty sure BioWare is listening. Look how promptly they deleted threads after PAX - somebody read them after all. Also, Mr. Priestly closed the thread that discussed BioWare PR strategy under false pretence that it contained "lies" - hey, look who is talking about lies, huh...

They do listen and they do very closely watch what is happening here. No, not as a decent game developer should listen their fanbase (I mean, compare to Project Red and you'll see what I mean). BioWare watches us as adversaries. All right, if you are asking for that...

I think the best course of actions - the happy coexinsting between creators (BioWare) and created (the masses of shepards on these boards) - can be achieved if they extend the meaning of "clarify" to complete rewrite.

The next best course of actions would be if EA and BioWare go bancrupt. This would send a very loud and clear message to other game developers to keep their promises. I bet we achieved outstanding results in this area already.

So, don't give up, keep pressure on - they are listening, after all!

[exile1478]

Okay Im going to be banned from the forums for this post. But after reading the announcement about he extended cut i wont be buying anything from bioware any time soon and dont care. Hope people get to see this post before its removed.
Extended cut is a cop out,
A. after 5 years of promising mass effect would not end with push button a,b or c that exactly what they deliver.

B. Hack writers abandon existing plotlines and introduce a new character that tries to expalin everything with false logic that you take at face value? really so sheppard who defied the council regarding seren's motives, defied the council about the existence of reapers, fought the reapers defying their claims that resistance was pointless just goes ah okay fraky godchild you're right and sacrifices himself.

This thread should have been titled ****** AND MOAN AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE, WE ALREADY HAVE YOUR MONEY SO **** YOU.

[garytwine]

Archonsg wrote...

garytwine wrote...

I'm fairly sure Bioware has less power over their actions than people think.

When those actions reflect the health of your company, its revenues and set a negative sheen over all past acheivements, then perhaps they should rethink what exactly they have power over.

Seriously, to the PR clowns running this show, you know the axim, ****** off one customer and 10 others will hear about it. Not only that, that one customer will forget everything good that you may have done in the past and focus on the negative. Its called human nature.

It is alot harder to please someone granted but at the same time, it takes alot to really make your customers feel insulted, talked down to and walk away feeling cheated and abused.
Congratualtions, but somehow you have managed to do all the above. 

So, stick to your "Artistic, plothole, inconsistent illogical ending". 
Defending a bad, really bad ending, that has no place in the game, is just, well, stupid. But hey, its your company.

I know I will not ever recomend or buy another Bioware product off Origins or any other form of retail purchase to anyone and everyone I know. 

Lol, you're right on all of the above. However, there is no way Bioware would have ever have admitted they are at fault. From their perspective, it would have made a bad situation so much worse.

I had my fingers crossed otherwise, that they would actually stand up, away from the crowd and say, "Yes, we care about our customers more than money. We're doing this for you, not for profit or personal satisfaction but for you. We will change the ending. It might take us a year but for those wanting it we will make it available".

They didn't or couldn't do this. Probably down to money and saving face at the end of the day. If they had just said "Yes, we realise that the ending is a mess and makes no logical sense. We rushed it out tro meet deadlines. We realise you wanted the ending to an action movie but gave you the twist ending to a mystery thriller. But, the damage is done, please forgive us. We can't change the ending now. It will take too much money and we don't have the budget. However, we can try to fix the plot holes, add more closure and give you a personalised epilogue. We are truly sorry. We will do better in our future games" Maybe, just maybe if they were honest and didn't play the artistic integrity, we're very proud and we've done nothing wrong card they would of kept the core fans respect.

Realistically though, they are not the paragons we thought they were. They're plain old human beings like the rest of us. They make mistakes and sometimes don't want to admit it. The CEO would of been sacked if he'd said any of that. The shareholders would have him replaced within a day.

Apart from the dreadful, dire and plot ridden ending and bad PR, their next biggest mistake was telling us what they wanted to give us in press releases before the game was released instead of what they could actually deliver in the time and budget left.

[luci90]

akuma1973 wrote...

LoneDragoon90 wrote...


"Yes, we're listening, but I'm not taking you seriously"


https://twitter.com/...978725637992448


What do you mean "at the end he died on a cross"? That makes no sense! And what of his companions? *newtestamentrage* #retakeeaster

I don't care if he apologised. Fingers in motion before brain in gear by Mr. Preistly.

Wow! That is just retarded. I wonder if BSN will be looking for a new forum manager after that. Off to create a new twitter account too.

That was a seriously stupid move.

Why would you say something that's obviously going to further upset your already pissed off money machine?

What they are doing is exactly the same as in the vgcats strip. www.vgcats.com/comics/

Modifié par luci90, 08 avril 2012 - 05:09 .

[CARL_DF90]

AkaXan wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

There's rumour it was Casey Hudson and the lead writer that developed the ending.

Then they should be fired as they clearly have no talent, their writing not only ignores Mass Effects own internal  lore and logic, it also brakes some very basic story writing/telling rules, which Bioware should really know.

I can only imagine that the Artistic Integrity nonsense is being used to protect those two as you cant say anything against them.

Can I also point out that if Casey Hudson really did write the endings, then the hate is even more deserved. The promises he made in numerous interviews, that player choices mattered and that give Mass Effect an A' B or C type of ending would be doing wrong by the fans. Its much worse as he knew, what he did and still told fans complete bs.

Couldn't have put it better my friend. Their actions will haunt Bioware for a very LONG time if they manage to keep their company alive long enough to recover. I've seen this industry go through so many cycles (no pun intended) that things like this can really be a death knell for a company. If this isn't fixed soon they are screwed. End of story (again no pun intended).


http://jmstevenson.w...-mass-effect-3/



To fellow forum goers take a look. It's VERY informative. As for YOU Bioware HQ, read it and learn from it before you guys shoot yourselves in the foot any more than you already have. All you have done is demonstrate just how out of touch you are with not only your fans, but your own business, craft, and series. First it was ME: Deception, and now this. Somehow I still care, and that is why I am bothering to write this. Fix yourselves before you reach the point of no return. And anyone whose watched the gaming industry for 10 or more years should know just what the heck I'm talking about. 


EDIT: The recent bit of rude, ridiculous, out-of-place comments from Mr. Priestly only serve to further illustrate my point: the people at Bioware have grown out of touch. This continuing trend will put them out of business if they don't clean themselves up. Just watch.

Modifié par CARL_DF90, 08 avril 2012 - 05:12 .

[Ghostsaxon]

As A Long Time Fan of the series and Bioware i wish they would come on the forums and just tell us what happened with the ending!!  Instead of the Fans Finding this which makes me unhappy.

www.gamesthirst.com/2012/03/25/mass-effect-3-writer-accuse-casey-hudson-of-going-it-alone-bioware-stays-silent/

[JEprime]

 I really enjoyed being able to wipe the Quarians out after they almost killed me. That was my favorite. Not so much because I wanted the Quarians dead. Instead because it was a huge decision that I was able to make.
Meeting up with Garris was great too. The visuals were great on that planet. 
The battle on Illum was just incredible also.

[EugeneBi]

exile1478 wrote...

Okay Im going to be banned from the forums for this post. But after reading the announcement about he extended cut i wont be buying anything from bioware any time soon and dont care. Hope people get to see this post before its removed.

*snip*

This thread should have been titled ****** AND MOAN AS MUCH AS YOU LIKE, WE ALREADY HAVE YOUR MONEY SO **** YOU.

You are wrong on 2 counts.
1. They do not go as far as remove posts "I won't buy anymore" yet, I believe. At least I saw a lot of them.
2. They got your and mine money, but there is still money to grab on the market out there (undecided people, DLC, future games) and bad publicity hurts that. I do not believe EA is that shortsighted. They are interested in money now and they are interested in the money in the next few years ahead too. That's why they sacrifice something now (free DLC, unheard of BioWare since batarians in ME1). The only question for them is balance, and if we can convince EA that investing in real ending is much better long-term, they will do it. 

[Silasqtx]

http://social.biowar...06/polls/31722/

Let them know!

[improperdancing]

Ghostsaxon wrote...

As A Long Time Fan of the series and Bioware i wish they would come on the forums and just tell us what happened with the ending!!  Instead of the Fans Finding this which makes me unhappy.

www.gamesthirst.com/2012/03/25/mass-effect-3-writer-accuse-casey-hudson-of-going-it-alone-bioware-stays-silent/

It will come out eventually.  At some point, someone high up at BioWare who wasn't happy with how Mass Effect 3 turned out will leave the company to work somewhere else, and at that point they will probably release a little tell-all that reveals what truly happened during Mass Effect 3's development.

I'm inclined to believe your link above, though.  It seems totally logical that something like that could have happened, and in all likelihood it was the result of BioWare setting the universe up for future sequels.  I find that a bit ironic, though, since a lot of us won't be buying them.

[Ramir3zPL]

So let me get this straight... We have to wait till summer to once again get the same thing, but with 10 more minutes of cutscenes? No Indoctrination Theory? No logic? We get nothing?! Dafuq?!

[Hurricane Cat]

Something that I think makes no sense (space magic aside) is the Normandy fleeing.
The thing that really doesnt sit right about the Normandy doing a runner (in any ending since destroying the reapers was the plan regardless of what you actually did at the end) is that reaper tech is integrated into the ship. Even if they were ordered to go by someone who didnt know that and it for whatever reason didn't occur to Joker, surely EDI being technically part of the ship would override the controls and not allow take off or land the ship so that it couldn't be knocked out of the sky if/when the IFF went to hell. If there was no time to land then the sensible thing to do would be dock with another ship to get the crew of reaper experts to safety incase something went wrong instead of leaving them on a ticking time bomb. And why the hell does the Normandy crash if you pick control or synthesis? Other ships dont seem to be affected.

[Etereoooo]

There is no use, they do not care at all.

[PadawanMage71]

 I still don't understand how a company that could make KOTOR, Dragon Age 1 & 2, Jade Empire as well as the first two (and yes, 99% of ME3) could allow something like this ending?

It's so far out of their 'model' from previous games.

[Changer the Elder]

AkaXan wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

There's rumour it was Casey Hudson and the lead writer that developed the ending.

Then they should be fired as they clearly have no talent, their writing not only ignores Mass Effects own internal  lore and logic, it also brakes some very basic story writing/telling rules, which Bioware should really know.

May I point out that neither you, nor any of the other fans, including me or a random guy in Vancouver, own the story and that we do not have any right to say what's right and wrong in creating it? Mac Walters is a writer. Casey Hudson is the lead. They have the right to lead the story wherever they want, because it's theirs. It would be like firing, say, J. Rowling from Harry Potter for killing off Lupin & Sirius. Or firing Stephanie Meyer from Twilight for matching the title girl with Edward instead of the werewolf guy. (Just random examples here, not trying to start a dispute whether said women are or are not good writers).

Just because Mass Effect is a team effort with a large company backing it up and owning the rights to them doesn't mean that there's an individual writer behind each character and plot point, one who's usually been with the series from the start, nurturing their creation from an idea to concept to an actual in-game content. Those guys (and guess what, INCLUDING Mac Walters and Casey Hudson) gave us the stories like Project Overlord & David Archer, Illusive Man's origin, all the crewmembers with each of their individual backstories, even smallest background characters ranking randomguyX&RandomguyY having some kind of a storyline (Even the damn electric-oven-customer on the Citadel has one, for crying out loud).

No matter what each of us thinks of the endings, it was created by the very same people as the rest of the game we all know and love (or at least, used to love, even though I still consider trashtalking 30+ hours' gameplay because of five minutes a serious case of Idiot ball). 

Try and think about that the next time you call for someone's head on a silver plate.

And as for this thread - yes, they ARE listening. They've proven it numeral times (even with such tiny and unimportant things as Blasto and Prothy the Prothean). But that hardly means they have to jump when you whistle. They're independent people, not slaves. Definitely not our slaves.

[StillOverrated]

Changer the Elder wrote...

May I point out that neither you, nor any of the other fans, including me or a random guy in Vancouver, own the story and that we do not have any right to say what's right and wrong in creating it? Mac Walters is a writer. Casey Hudson is the lead. They have the right to lead the story wherever they want, because it's theirs. It would be like firing, say, J. Rowling from Harry Potter for killing off Lupin & Sirius. Or firing Stephanie Meyer from Twilight for matching the title girl with Edward instead of the werewolf guy. (Just random examples here, not trying to start a dispute whether said women are or are not good writers).

May I point out you completely missed the point? It's not about the fans rewriting the entire ending to suit their taste. It's about us asking BioWare to keep their story within the lore they themselves created. And your examples are completely ****ing ridiculous. Killing Lupin and Sirius or who that whining little priss decides to end up dating don't completely go against the goddamn established lore of the books. It doesn't disintegrate the story. The Catalyst's logic goes against everything established in the course of the three games. And, to boot, you don't get an explanation as to just HOW the hell his options work. You just have to take them as the only solution.

Changer the Elder wrote...
Just because Mass Effect is a team effort with a large company backing it up and owning the rights to them doesn't mean that there's an individual writer behind each character and plot point, one who's usually been with the series from the start, nurturing their creation from an idea to concept to an actual in-game content. Those guys (and guess what, INCLUDING Mac Walters and Casey Hudson) gave us the stories like Project Overlord & David Archer, Illusive Man's origin, all the crewmembers with each of their individual backstories, even smallest background characters ranking randomguyX&RandomguyY having some kind of a storyline (Even the damn electric-oven-customer on the Citadel has one, for crying out loud).

Actually, YES , THEY DID. Every single major character had its own writer and there were a ****-ton more for other details, such as lore; they all checked with each other to make sure what they had in mind wouldn't conflict with anything else in the game. EXCEPT FOR THAT ENDING. The ending had these two guys playing Deus Ex until it was too late to actually come up with something so they decided to use the first thing they had. There's no "artistic integrity" here. And they didn't even bother consulting with the rest of the writing staff. That's just stupid. You have people to proof-read something for you, YOU USE THEM.

Changer the Elder wrote...
No matter what each of us thinks of the endings, it was created by the very same people as the rest of the game we all know and love (or at least, used to love, even though I still consider trashtalking 30+ hours' gameplay because of five minutes a serious case of Idiot ball).

No one is trashtalking thirty+ hours of game. We're trash-talking the ending that negates 100+hours of game. In fact, most of us loved every inch of the game up until that damn elevator ride. Lern2 research.

Changer the Elder wrote...
Try and think about that the next time you call for someone's head on a silver plate.

Right back at you.

Changer the Elder wrote...
And as for this thread - yes, they ARE listening. They've proven it numeral times (even with such tiny and unimportant things as Blasto and Prothy the Prothean). But that hardly means they have to jump when you whistle. They're independent people, not slaves. Definitely not our slaves.

No, they're not. All the plot problems stem from the Reaperkid. They're keeping the Reaperkid. I don't give a **** about them doing exactly what I want. Hell, for all I care, they can just use rocks fall, everyone dies for their ending. I just want it to make ****ing sense. The current ending does not make any semblance of sense and no amount of explaining why and how this **** smells will make it make sense.

Modifié par StillOverrated, 08 avril 2012 - 05:41 .

[EugeneBi]

Hurricane Cat wrote...

Something that I think makes no sense (space magic aside) is the Normandy fleeing.
The thing that really doesnt sit right about the Normandy doing a runner (in any ending since destroying the reapers was the plan regardless of what you actually did at the end) is that reaper tech is integrated into the ship. Even if they were ordered to go by someone who didnt know that and it for whatever reason didn't occur to Joker, surely EDI being technically part of the ship would override the controls and not allow take off or land the ship so that it couldn't be knocked out of the sky if/when the IFF went to hell. If there was no time to land then the sensible thing to do would be dock with another ship to get the crew of reaper experts to safety incase something went wrong instead of leaving them on a ticking time bomb. And why the hell does the Normandy crash if you pick control or synthesis? Other ships dont seem to be affected.

Apparently, Jocker was indoctrintated. The other explanation - BioWare writers were intoxicated.

[Dunga780]

A thought on the endings. This was mostly thought up by a blogger but I think it's relevant.
1) Paragon: Taking control of the Reapers. Essentially, you are removing the free will that the reapers have. Much like what the Reapers did to the Geth. Shepard fought to free the Geth, but does it to the Reapers? So the Paragon option is counter to the themes the game had previously set.
2) Synthesis: You are going to forcibly change beings against they're will? Turians and Salarians to the Krogan. And what about celebrating differences and learning to live in peace. This choice is also counter to the themes previously stated in the game.
3) Renegade: Destruction. Sacrificing the Geth to stop the Reapers. Ironically, this is the only option that doesn't go against the previous themes. Sacrifice has been in all the games.

This is not just my analysis. This same conclusion has been reached by independently by many individuals. Ergo, by scientific definition, Bioware "done f***** up." Let us forget for a moment the betrayal we feel. Let us forget our emotions and think only of Bioware. Bioware betrayed themselves. They betrayed the story of Mass Effect by these endings. They betrayed their writers, their staff, and everyone involved in the project from the beginning. The endings betray their own creators. Ironically, just what the glowy kid was worried about. The creation betrays the creators.
It is my conclusion that because of the betrayal, not to us but to themselves, they have an obligation to change the endings so that the are true to the story they created.
Thank you for reading this. I hope I was clear.

[The Morrigan]

Assuming that some poor bugger(s) have to trawl this thread for Bioware looking for feedback, here's my two penneth:

The ending is not great, but it's not terrible. There's a lot that's left unanswered. I, for one, can live with it.

Everything up until getting to the Catalyst was awesome; so emotional, so intense, I loved it. Some really great writing, especially when Shepard gets hit by the Reaper blast and has to carry on half-dead. The squad goodbyes were good too - pretty tear-jerking stuff.

Catalyst kid: too much too fast. Who? What? Why? Who the hell is this kid? Why is he here? I was kinda confused which choice to make - it was all way over my head, suddenly being given this much power over everything. The Cataylst scene just seemed completely out of whack with everything else - the tone was different. It felt like it came out of nowhere.

Especially after the scene with Anderson and it looked like Shepard was going to die there and then... man. That was some powerful stuff.

Easier for me to imagine the game ended after the conversation with Anderson... I hit the magic button to start the Crucible and boom, there's the end. I'm kinda liking the fan theory that the stuff with the Catalyst kid was a hallucination.

And then that teaser bit right at the very end? That was pretty awesome, too.

Props to you, Bioware, for listening to the very vocal fans. But more props for sticking to your guns - whether I like the ending or not, I have to respect artists for standing by their art. For better or worse, it's a very artsy ending.

[kickassTurian]

well said stillOverrated!

[EugeneBi]

The Morrigan wrote...

Assuming that some poor bugger(s) have to trawl this thread for Bioware looking for feedback, here's my two penneth:

The ending is not great, but it's not terrible. There's a lot that's left unanswered. I, for one, can live with it.

Everything up until getting to the Catalyst was awesome; so emotional, so intense, I loved it. Some really great writing, especially when Shepard gets hit by the Reaper blast and has to carry on half-dead. The squad goodbyes were good too - pretty tear-jerking stuff.

Catalyst kid: too much too fast. Who? What? Why? Who the hell is this kid? Why is he here? I was kinda confused which choice to make - it was all way over my head, suddenly being given this much power over everything. The Cataylst scene just seemed completely out of whack with everything else - the tone was different. It felt like it came out of nowhere.

Especially after the scene with Anderson and it looked like Shepard was going to die there and then... man. That was some powerful stuff.

Easier for me to imagine the game ended after the conversation with Anderson... I hit the magic button to start the Crucible and boom, there's the end. I'm kinda liking the fan theory that the stuff with the Catalyst kid was a hallucination.

And then that teaser bit right at the very end? That was pretty awesome, too.

Props to you, Bioware, for listening to the very vocal fans. But more props for sticking to your guns - whether I like the ending or not, I have to respect artists for standing by their art. For better or worse, it's a very artsy ending.

Well, the ending itself was artistic. I do not buy the questions "why breaking the glass tube kills the reapers?", "why Shepard stops limping?", "why Shepard goes towards exploding tube?", etc. This *is* artistic metaphor.

The whole game was also artistic, no doubt about that.

The problem is that these two arts do not match, they are from completely different stories, they have no right to be in the same game.