23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Dunga780]

Everyone keeps calling this art. It's not. It's a game. It was created for others to enjoy. Obviously, Bioware failed. What's astonishing is that they failed in such an odd way. They had everything right. It was a perfect game, until the end. And the ending was so bad, it invalidated all the previous enjoyment we got. I read an article that said some stores are actually giving full cash refunds, even for used copies, in order to satisfy customers. Forbes is covering this. This is a huge debacle, and Bioware is standing by it's "artistic integrity"? WTF! I think I'd respect them more if they said, "Yeah, we messed up. Sorry. We'll fix it." If a bridge design is faulty an engineer doesn't get to stand by his artistic integrity, He's told to fix it or else. This is a mess. Bioware, I love you. Fix it.

[Changer the Elder]

StillOverrated wrote...

May I point out you completely missed the point? It's not about the fans rewriting the entire ending to suit their taste. It's about us asking BioWare to keep their story within the lore they themselves created. And your examples are completely ****ing ridiculous. Killing Lupin and Sirius or who that whining little priss decides to end up dating don't completely go against the goddamn established lore of the books. It doesn't disintegrate the story. The Catalyst's logic goes against everything established in the course of the three games. And, to boot, you don't get an explanation as to just HOW the hell his options work. You just have to take them as the only solution.

Funny. As hard as it may come to believe, there are people who see Catalyst as logical and not going against the logic of the series. Despite them being usually silent, there are people who are pro-ending.

No one is trashtalking thirty+ hours of game. We're trash-talking the ending that negates 100+hours of game. In fact, most of us loved every inch of the game up until that damn elevator ride. Lern2 research.

In that case, you've been obviously stalking different forums than I have. Because seeing anyone saying "I USED TO LOVE THIS GAME BUT NOW BECAUSE I'VE SEEN THE ENDING IT SUCKS" (usually including the capitals) is not that rare.

Changer the Elder wrote...
Try and think about that the next time you call for someone's head on a silver plate.

Right back at you.

Excuse me, but when did I call for someone's head in my post? Have I mentioned wanting to kill or kick out anyone? Please, do remind me.

No, they're not. All the plot problems stem from the Reaperkid. They're keeping the Reaperkid. I don't give a **** about them doing exactly what I want. Hell, for all I care, they can just use rocks fall, everyone dies for their ending. I just want it to make ****ing sense. The current ending does not make any semblance of sense and no amount of explaining why and how this **** smells will make it make sense.

Again, you mistake listening for doing. I mentioned that they've proven to be listening to their fans. You complain about them not acting on their every whim. There's a logical and semantic difference. I don't say I agree with them not acting/acting on some of those complaints or that they've always acted flawlessly, but just because you're butthurt about them not following your exact wish, it does not by any chance mean they're ignorant.

And please, don't stoop to profanities. It's uncalled for. I didn't do anything to you, besides obviously not reaching an agreement with your vision.

Modifié par Changer the Elder, 08 avril 2012 - 06:01 .

[Caprea]

Changer the Elder wrote...
May I point out that neither you, nor any of the other fans, including me or a random guy in Vancouver, own the story and that we do not have any right to say what's right and wrong in creating it? Mac Walters is a writer. Casey Hudson is the lead. They have the right to lead the story wherever they want, because it's theirs. It would be like firing, say, J. Rowling from Harry Potter for killing off Lupin & Sirius. Or firing Stephanie Meyer from Twilight for matching the title girl with Edward instead of the werewolf guy. (Just random examples here, not trying to start a dispute whether said women are or are not good writers).

Just because Mass Effect is a team effort with a large company backing it up and owning the rights to them doesn't mean that there's an individual writer behind each character and plot point, one who's usually been with the series from the start, nurturing their creation from an idea to concept to an actual in-game content. Those guys (and guess what, INCLUDING Mac Walters and Casey Hudson) gave us the stories like Project Overlord & David Archer, Illusive Man's origin, all the crewmembers with each of their individual backstories, even smallest background characters ranking randomguyX&RandomguyY having some kind of a storyline (Even the damn electric-oven-customer on the Citadel has one, for crying out loud).

No matter what each of us thinks of the endings, it was created by the very same people as the rest of the game we all know and love (or at least, used to love, even though I still consider trashtalking 30+ hours' gameplay because of five minutes a serious case of Idiot ball). 

Try and think about that the next time you call for someone's head on a silver plate.

And as for this thread - yes, they ARE listening. They've proven it numeral times (even with such tiny and unimportant things as Blasto and Prothy the Prothean). But that hardly means they have to jump when you whistle. They're independent people, not slaves. Definitely not our slaves.

I can understand where you're coming from. But there are two points I disagree with you on:
Number one is is that BioWare purposefully advertised an ending with up to 16 (I think) different outcomes and fans took it for granted - they were promised an ending that would take your previous choices in all three games into account, an ending that would tie up all lose ends and answer all the questions. They were promised that kind of ending, they paid for it. BioWare didn't deliver. Fans got an ending which raised more questions than it answered, that defied everything Mass Effect has been standing for thus far, and even contradicted basic ME lore. So they're still hiding behind their so-called "artistic integrity", instead of coming clean and saying: "Alright, guys. We messed it up. We're sorry and we'll do better next time."
I get the feeling they're trying to save their faces, moreso than really believing in the "artistic integrity" they're speaking of.
It is one thing to create an ending that you think is best, it is another to create a completely nonsensical ending and trying to sell it to your fans and customers, despite all the promises you made before.
Which leads me to point number two:
If BioWare was only a bunch of artists that didn't have any obligations toward their fanbase, I'd accept the argument that the ending is theirs and it's up to them what they do with it. But first and foremost, they are a business company which purpose is to make money. And the basic premise for that is to keep your customers satisfied, which they didn't. So apart from the mere moral aspect of promising and not delivering, don't you think it is utterly stupid for members of a capitalist company to think "Hey, I'm an artist and I'm not obligated to my fans and customers at all, so I'll do whatever the hell I want to!"? Because yes, pissing off fans and appreciators of your art is one thing. Pissing off paying customers is another. It basically means they're shooting themselves in the foot (or head, in this case) because pissed off customers are not going to pay for any more games you make. They'll spread the word and buzz marketing is a very effective means.
Bottom line is, going down the "It's all artistic integrity, I don't give a rat's ass about the rest since I'm not obligated to my fans and customers!" road as a business company is utterly stupid. BioWare should be aware of this, for they've had a close connection to their fans up until now. But promising, then failing to deliver and alienating themselves from their loyal fanbase by hiding behind their "artistic intergrity" wall goes only so far.
At this very critical point, the best way for BioWare to get out of that massive hole of the size of a crater blasted by Harbginger, is to stop. Digging.

Modifié par dea_ex_machina, 08 avril 2012 - 06:12 .

[improperdancing]

Dunga780 wrote...

Everyone keeps calling this art. It's not. It's a game. It was created for others to enjoy. Obviously, Bioware failed. What's astonishing is that they failed in such an odd way. They had everything right. It was a perfect game, until the end. And the ending was so bad, it invalidated all the previous enjoyment we got. I read an article that said some stores are actually giving full cash refunds, even for used copies, in order to satisfy customers. Forbes is covering this. This is a huge debacle, and Bioware is standing by it's "artistic integrity"? WTF! I think I'd respect them more if they said, "Yeah, we messed up. Sorry. We'll fix it." If a bridge design is faulty an engineer doesn't get to stand by his artistic integrity, He's told to fix it or else. This is a mess. Bioware, I love you. Fix it.

I disagree with you that Mass Effect 3 wasn't art, but I agree with your greater point.

The problem I have is with the idea that art can't be changed.  There is a reason, after all, that books have editors, or that movies have focus groups.  Almost every bit of "art" we consume has been changed numerous times to better cater to the consumer.  Editors exist to call out writers when they make bad decisions.

Ironically, issues typically arise when artists aren't at the mercy of editors.  It's how guys like George Lucas go from making amazing films to making utter garbage.  No one is around to tell him which ideas are good and which are stupid. 

[Hexley UK]

Bioware it's pretty obvious to us all now that this ending was rushed probably due to the extremely tight schedule you were put on by EA.

If this is the case why in god's name are you continuing to stand by it and refusing to change it?

Just apologise, explain why it turned out the way it did (i.e lack of time and resources) and then change it to be the epic ending this game series, the fans and you deserve. Most fans would be happy with this.

I really don't understand why this is a problem and why you guys seem to be refusing to talk to any of us about it all.

You're just alienating your biggest fans right now and I really really don't think that's a smart thing to do. You live and die by your core fanbase and at this rate you will no longer continue to have one.

I'll repeat that in caps - YOU ARE KILLING OFF YOUR CORE FANBASE BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO TALK.

Now ideas for changes -

Starchild needs to be removed it's stupid and illogical and does not fit at all in the ME universe.

Priority Earth needs to be the epic battle it was made out to be in trailers, it should have been like ME2's suicide mission but much more epic in scope not 45 mins of CoD style mediocre shooting.

Harbinger needs to be brought back as the main bad guy....all that build up in ME2 and he doesnt even speak in ME3, totally wasted potential.

At least a 2 year development cycle for ME4 please......we don't want another rush job like this one obviously is.

Thanks for reading. (Hopefully)

Modifié par Hexley UK, 08 avril 2012 - 10:59 .

[StillOverrated]

[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...

Funny. As hard as it may come to believe, there are people who see Catalyst as logical and not going against the logic of the series. Despite them being usually silent, there are people who are pro-ending.[/quote]
I've asked a few pro-enders and, so far, all I've gotten is "no ur rong BW is right da endins r awsum stfu". I've actually asked them time and time again just how the endings make sense; they've either skipped the question or just said "it works stfu". I AM genuinely curious as to HOW they work 'cause, so far, I haven't seen it, so I'll ask you, then: How do the endings work, and how do they not go against everything established in the course of three games, lore-wise and gameplay-wise?

[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...
In that case, you've been obviously stalking different forums than I have. Because seeing anyone saying "I USED TO LOVE THIS GAME BUT NOW BECAUSE I'VE SEEN THE ENDING IT SUCKS" (usually including the capitals) is not that rare.[/quote]
I still love the three games, regardless of how bad the ending sucks. There. I said it. In fact, ME3 would be my favorite if it wasn't for the ending. Hell, Mass Effect was the first TPS I've ever picked up and I don't regret it. Just because a couple of babies whine in allcaps, doesn't mean all of us do.

[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...
Excuse me, but when did I call for someone's head in my post? Have I mentioned wanting to kill or kick out anyone? Please, do remind me.[/quote]
Fine, that one was my bad. Mistake admitted.

[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...
Again, you mistake listening for doing. I mentioned that they've proven to be listening to their fans. You complain about them not acting on their every whim. There's a logical and semantic difference. I don't say I agree with them not acting/acting on some of those complaints or that they've always acted flawlessly, but just because you're butthurt about them not following your exact wish, it does not by any chance mean they're ignorant.[/quote]
Point missed 2.0. I'm not butthurt over them not following my exact wishes. I just ask for a franchise that has great storytelling as their main selling point to keep the quality they've had in the past. Yeah. How butthurt of me. 
I don't care HOW they go back to it. The problem is everything wrong with the writing decline stems from two things: One, the reaperkid is the root of all problems in the game. Two, they lifted the endings from Deus Ex and replaced "system" with "Reapers". Hiding behind "artistic integrity" is just... 

[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...
And please, don't stoop to profanities. It's uncalled for. I didn't do anything to you, besides obviously not reaching an agreement with your vision.[/quote]
Sorry, will try to not do it again. And you might want to work on sounding less like you want to punch everyone through the screen.
[/quote]

Modifié par StillOverrated, 08 avril 2012 - 06:25 .

[Changer the Elder]

dea_ex_machina wrote...

(...)
Number one is is that BioWare purposefully advertised an ending with up to 16 (I think) different outcomes and fans took it for granted - they were promised an ending that would take your previous choices in all three games into account, an ending that would tie up all lose ends and answer all the questions.

(...)
If BioWare was only a bunch of artists that didn't have any obligations toward their fanbase, I'd accept the argument that the ending is theirs and it's up to them what they do with it. But first and foremost, they are a business company which purpose is to make money.

First of all, thank you for taking your time with my POV (and for not calling me an idiot just because we disagree - I really appreciate that). I tried my best to return the favor. So please, consider this a debate, not an argument

I understand the "failed promises" concept, but there is quite a number of endings. But most of them, just like killing Shepard in ME2 are hard to achieve because you'd have to suck terribly at playing the game. Besides the three paths, you can make the relay explode and kill everything with it or it may even backfire with doing nothing to the reapers at all. There is sixteen different outcomes for the game, but

Also, the whole ME3 is technically the ending. The player decides the whole closure as it unravels and ties the loose ends to the stories they've followed since ME1. You can resolve the quarian/geth conflict, Genophage, uplift the krogan... et cetera. In the end, you just get rid off the Reapers. There's not much choice with that.

The other point is philosophical. Yes, I agree that Bioware/EA/any other company. But I disagree that that ties them into any kind of obligation. They are not obliged to do anything. They should if they want to raise money, but that doesn't mean they "have to". They do have their rights to express themselves, artistically and otherwise. Of course, given the nature of their business, they should try to appeal as many people as possible, but still, it doesn't take their right to do with their own story as they decide. I don't believe fans have any right to "demand" anything. They can of course complain and/or voice their opinion, but turning agressive because the company doesn't bend to their will and whim is uncalled for.

[Headhunter128]

I see people here have already done a great job criticizing Bioware for this
..whatever it is.. Lol

But I would like to ask.. How can someone make such a great series of games, especially the last one... But screw up the ending so badly? It makes no sense. Did the writers all have a stroke at the same time? I mean.. C'mon.. I guess you could call it unfair. :/ The most logical conclusion must be that EA got you guys indoctrinated.. >.>

[Hexley UK]

Headhunter128 wrote...

I see people here have already done a great job criticizing Bioware for this
..whatever it is.. Lol

But I would like to ask.. How can someone make such a great series of games, especially the last one... But screw up the ending so badly? It makes no sense. Did the writers all have a stroke at the same time? I mean.. C'mon.. I guess you could call it unfair. :/ The most logical conclusion must be that EA got you guys indoctrinated.. >.>

My guesses are time constraints, stroke or they gave a 5 yr old some magic mushrooms and had him do it.

Probably time contraints from the EA Overlords though realistically.

[Ironwulfe]

I am saddened that the creative team could look at the whole of this game...and then stand by the travesty of an ending...I have given up on hollywood, and most of my other visual media in delivering something that makes sense and that is satisfying with the trend these days of making it about letting the hero die or suffer constantly and not be able to enjoy any of his labours...Happy endings are not the norm any longer and one gets very tired of not having them once in awhile...but beyond that...to reduce something that had soooo many possibilities on so many fronts the whole game to three choices...its sad...there was room for those of us that like a positive ending to have one...those that wanted to strike a balance to have one and even the people than wanted bad or doom filled endings to have them and so many shades in between...but to throw continuity, and reason, and insert a Deus Ex Machina and cause your hero to be worse than the reapers he fought against and still not be able to see it through alive...how sad is that? I loved every moment of the game til I was forced into this sad sad ending...and I refuse to believe that the people I've believed in since Baldur's Gate could crafts such a disconnected and inane ending. I felt literally like I'd been kicked in the chest when I finished it and wouldn't touch it or any game for a couple of weeks...I get enough mediocre entertainment from films these days and expected so much more...then with the community assailing them and demanding more...they stand by what they have given...well I guess that means its art because it sure isn't entertainment. I am sad that the one company I believed in and have always recommended and praised has done this and for the first time I am forced to know that when Bioware's next offering emerges I won't be touching it until someone I know has or I youtube the game before I give it a chance...it makes me very sad. I don't blame EA on this when Bioware are the ones that are standing behind it. I wish I could because I had such faith in them, sadly that has been shaken. I know this falls on deaf ears and I know that I'll see a huge list of people saying I'm whining or tearing it apart...but I do not care. My thoughts should be heard and here they are. Good evening to you all. I hope that somehow you recover from this and return to good works...Thank you for the length of time you did give me before doing this.

[Changer the Elder]

StillOverrated wrote...

I've asked a few pro-enders and, so far, all I've gotten is "no ur rong BW is right da endins r awsum stfu". I've actually asked them time and time again just how the endings make sense; they've either skipped the question or just said "it works stfu". I AM genuinely curious as to HOW they work 'cause, so far, I haven't seen it, so I'll ask you, then: How do the endings work, and how do they not go against everything established in the course of three games, lore-wise and gameplay-wise?

Ah, yes, people like that unfortunately exist. On both sides, I've met more than a few. Both equally annoying. Some of them will grow out of it. I hope.
I'll try to answer that question, even though I find it a bit hard to phrase it correctly. It's sometimes hard to tell why something works when you fail to see why shouldn't it work (I imagine it's the same vice versa). From what I've read, the most complaints are about the Catalyst being deus ex machina thrown in last minute, higher power thingy... etc. But if I remember correctly, Reapers not being the top dog of the show was hinted several times during the series, the first mention I think going even way back to ME1. Of course, it was usually scientific speculation presented in-universe, one the creators could or couldn't follow, but following it doesn't break any known rules. I don't think the Catalyst was any kind of higher power, even though I believe the writers did leave that unspecified for any fan to think of a theory (something like The Strange Man in Red Dead Redemption, even though that one's a bit extreme case.). To me, he might've been a creation made to keep history from repeating itself, made by the first (or even second or third) civilizations to prevent synthetics taking over the galaxy and therefore basically exterminating evolution cycle. Or he migh've been a remnant of that civilization rather than its creation, something like how every culture harvested by the Reapers becomes a Reaper on its own.
The fact that it was shown as the child from Earth is a bit unfortunate and for those who already were WTF at the end added insult to injury, obviously (I can't think of anyone who wouldn't be annoyed by him by that point in the game, forest runs were haunting in story with the fallen comrades' voices, but gameplaywise quite frustrating). But then again, it needed some form and face. I can't say I have a better idea for its casting.

As for the Normandy part, that's the most disputable for me. I thought one major plothole was why would it be jumping through a mass relay, but then I found out it didn't have to be. It's animation is pretty much the same when it travels FTL only. Of course, it still doesn't explain how did the two of your squadmates you've taken on Earth survive to show up on board. That one, I don't know and am confused about.

Now I have to ask you, how don't they work? I'd like to get into that perspective, too.

I still love the three games, regardless of how bad the ending sucks. There. I said it. In fact, ME3 would be my favorite if it wasn't for the ending. Hell, Mass Effect was the first TPS I've ever picked up and I don't regret it. Just because a couple of babies whine in allcaps, doesn't mean all of us do.

I never said you all do, I never said I mean you in particular. I'm sorry if I made it sound like it, I'm not very proficient in handling the subtleties and hidden tones of English language. But I've seen many claiming that and even though I couldn't be further from calling anyone stupid just because they like/dislike something, in this case, I'm making an exception. Anyone willing to claim for thirty hours that this is the best game they've played in their life only to do a six-a-clock turn because of the ending will hear it from me. But I'm glad you're not in that cathegory.

Point missed 2.0. I'm not butthurt over them not following my exact wishes. I just ask for a franchise that has great storytelling as their main selling point to keep the quality they've had in the past. Yeah. How butthurt of me. 
I don't care HOW they go back to it. The problem is everything wrong with the writing decline stems from two things: One, the reaperkid is the root of all problems in the game. Two, they lifted the endings from Deus Ex and replaced "system" with "Reapers". Hiding behind "artistic integrity" is just...

I understand how that is frustrating. I've been through something similar with different stories and different worlds. But yes, it's always hitting a nerve when something you care about goes through any kind of quality drop. And I do agree with the ending being subpar to the rest of the game. Even though I do like the idea with the Catalyst and do not disapprove of the purposeful ambiguity for everyone to make up their own story, it was quite obvious to me that the devs ran out of time in the end. Just the tiny detail that the memories got stuck on three default love interests from the first game or the hints from numerous devteam members about how they had to sacrifice bits and pieces of content to make the deadline support that. I'm curious about the Extended cut, for it might show us, besides removing a bit from that "ambiguity" part, how things were originally intended to end.

It's true that Bioware is using "artistic integrity" as a bit of a doubt-proof shielding, maybe too much for even my taste, but seeing how some fans react here on the forums and imagining how some of the hate-mail they've got must've looked like, it's not like I can blame them for turtling in on a defensive scenario.

Changer the Elder wrote...
And please, don't stoop to profanities. It's uncalled for. I didn't do anything to you, besides obviously not reaching an agreement with your vision.

Sorry, will try to not do it again. And you might want to work on sounding less like you want to punch everyone through the screen.

Yikes, I'm sorry. As mentioned before, I'm not really that good with written text subleties, especially with foreign language. (Even though, I have to admit that some people, I really do want to punch, but that's another point entirely). I'll keep trying. Maybe I should try something like the elcor do, that might help...

Modifié par Changer the Elder, 08 avril 2012 - 06:59 .

[camdy]

No_MSG wrote...

camdy wrote...

k177sh0t wrote...

ME3 is incredible from the start all the way up before the ending and  it just went downhill after that

First time I was emotionally attached to  video game characters (Garrus was well written and Liara). Mordin's death and Anderson actually made me shed manly tears. Im serious

It just added some confusion on mine

No epilogue of the surviving galactic species (Turian, Krogan, Asari, Human, Hanar, Volus, Battarian and Drell) and your Normandy crew

What happened to them? What's gonna happen to those who were not on their own planets?

What happened to the inhabitants of the Citadel? Were they evacuated?

What's the origin of the Reapers? Who created them? Organics or Intellectual Synthetics?

http://cdn2.gamefron...3/ME3yodawg.jpg

Choices were extremely limited in the end

i agree as i found the ending to be tacked on as it was the same,just that they swapped the blue light bulb out for the red one.

it does feel like you guys just took someone off the street that had no idea about the mass effect universe to make the ending and to be honest i think you guys let yourself's down as we all know you can do way better.

No, no, no.  That was Mass Effect: Deception.  They're fixing that:
http://www.joystiq.c...es-in-future-e/

[improperdancing]

camdy wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

camdy wrote...

k177sh0t wrote...

ME3 is incredible from the start all the way up before the ending and  it just went downhill after that

First time I was emotionally attached to  video game characters (Garrus was well written and Liara). Mordin's death and Anderson actually made me shed manly tears. Im serious

It just added some confusion on mine

No epilogue of the surviving galactic species (Turian, Krogan, Asari, Human, Hanar, Volus, Battarian and Drell) and your Normandy crew

What happened to them? What's gonna happen to those who were not on their own planets?

What happened to the inhabitants of the Citadel? Were they evacuated?

What's the origin of the Reapers? Who created them? Organics or Intellectual Synthetics?

http://cdn2.gamefron...3/ME3yodawg.jpg

Choices were extremely limited in the end

i agree as i found the ending to be tacked on as it was the same,just that they swapped the blue light bulb out for the red one.

it does feel like you guys just took someone off the street that had no idea about the mass effect universe to make the ending and to be honest i think you guys let yourself's down as we all know you can do way better.

No, no, no.  That was Mass Effect: Deception.  They're fixing that:
http://www.joystiq.c...es-in-future-e/

So I guess it is okay to change art, huh BioWare?  I guess that rule only applies when it's your art.

[AkaXan]

Changer the Elder wrote...

AkaXan wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

There's rumour it was Casey Hudson and the lead writer that developed the ending.

Then they should be fired as they clearly have no talent, their writing not only ignores Mass Effects own internal  lore and logic, it also brakes some very basic story writing/telling rules, which Bioware should really know.

May I point out that neither you, nor any of the other fans, including me or a random guy in Vancouver, own the story and that we do not have any right to say what's right and wrong in creating it? Mac Walters is a writer. Casey Hudson is the lead. They have the right to lead the story wherever they want, because it's theirs. It would be like firing, say, J. Rowling from Harry Potter for killing off Lupin & Sirius. Or firing Stephanie Meyer from Twilight for matching the title girl with Edward instead of the werewolf guy. (Just random examples here, not trying to start a dispute whether said women are or are not good writers).

Just because Mass Effect is a team effort with a large company backing it up and owning the rights to them doesn't mean that there's an individual writer behind each character and plot point, one who's usually been with the series from the start, nurturing their creation from an idea to concept to an actual in-game content. Those guys (and guess what, INCLUDING Mac Walters and Casey Hudson) gave us the stories like Project Overlord & David Archer, Illusive Man's origin, all the crewmembers with each of their individual backstories, even smallest background characters ranking randomguyX&RandomguyY having some kind of a storyline (Even the damn electric-oven-customer on the Citadel has one, for crying out loud).

No matter what each of us thinks of the endings, it was created by the very same people as the rest of the game we all know and love (or at least, used to love, even though I still consider trashtalking 30+ hours' gameplay because of five minutes a serious case of Idiot ball). 

Try and think about that the next time you call for someone's head on a silver plate.

And as for this thread - yes, they ARE listening. They've proven it numeral times (even with such tiny and unimportant things as Blasto and Prothy the Prothean). But that hardly means they have to jump when you whistle. They're independent people, not slaves. Definitely not our slaves.

Sigh, its like you see what you want. Did I ask for Casey Hudsons bloody head on a plate, no I didnt.
What I did point out, is that anyone who dosent understand basic story telling/writing techniques, especially when they are in the postion of lead writer/director, should be let go or at the very least not have the power to over rule the writing by peer aproval that Bioware normally use to filter their stories to aviod such poor writing.

If any writer be it in film or books, choose to go it alone, ignores the concerns of writing team because they can and shows that they dont understand basic writing do's and donts, of which the most obvious is the dont introduce new charcters or maguffin in the last few pages and let it render your main protaganist useless because of their sudden appreance. Then that writer should be let go or moved into a position were they dont get last say.

The end looks like it was writen outwidth the peer aproval procedure and it shows. The proof being the steller writing through the games up until the reaper beam.

BTW I paid for the game, I listend to Casy Hudson promice that player choices mattered and that to give ME3 an A, B or C ending that dosent reflect the players input would be completly wrong. So I have every right to point out how awful the endings are and why they fail on every level. I also have the right to call Bioware out on thier lies.

Modifié par AkaXan, 08 avril 2012 - 07:12 .

[CountDrunku]

Dear BioWare Mass Effect Team,
 
Hello!
I’m very excited, I was going to write a letter ( but my hand writting sucks XD ) to you guys and gals ( can’t forget about the ladies ) who provided me with an amazing game play experience. I cannot recall when I first picked up Mass Effect but, anything BioWare made has my attention! I fell in love with the interactive, choice driven Knights of the Old Republic games back in the Xbox days. Star Wars with choices? Count me in!
 
Sorry for the little emoticon thingies, words on a page is so very plain. I do not trust myself with expressing my feelings with words on how much enjoyment I’ve had with the Mass Effect series. Right now, however, I am disappointed. 

I waited a long time to write this and hopefully, my first post won't get me banned XD
I don't think my voice matters at all, in the whole scheme of things, but . . . who knows.
Maybe I'll makes someone smile or laugh during this dark time of the ending dilemna . . .
Oh and I didn't know where to post this lol XD
SO IT IS GONG IN HERE! Ha-haa!
 
I feel sad and depressed really. This whole ending thing has really impacted me as a gamer. People who enjoy the same kind of entertainment are at each other’s throats. Some big person, I never even heard of, called all gamers whiny. Well, he said something like generally or something.
 
Question: If the people who don’t like the ending are consider a minority, how many people do like the ending?
 
I tried searching for articles on Google. There have been tons and tons of information on why the ending is hated but, there haven’t been tons of positives, or, at least, I couldn’t find. Do the people that don’t voice their opinion, really have an opinion? The talk about artistic integrity . . . it is not even about the Mass Effect universe. Should artistic integrity be an issue? I mean, when everyone shouts out the sales of Mass Effect 3, and compare the number of sales to the actually people voicing their opinion, should integrity matter? The shouts upon the critic review scores, don’t they touch upon the mechanics rather than the story? The game plays great, no bugs except that import feature . . .
 
Question: How long would it take to make a model of Tali’s face?
 
I love art. I know people who could spend a total of 24 hours on a single picture. I have no idea about the game character modeling process but, I do know it takes time. I heard about the Tali’s face thing before I even got a chance to witness it in the game. I didn’t think much of it. When I did actually saw the picture in the game, I was like, that is great! The girl under the mask, it was pretty cool. I thought the photo was taken of the model and completely re-done  I thought that sunrise effect was a pretty cool thing to add into the picture  That’s when I ventured to look at the original photo  The photo was edited but the sunrise, was already there. When I saw the photo in game, I thought her hand looked weird for some odd reason. In the original, she had a gap in her fingers. Her extras was just removed in the in game picture. I didn’t think her hand matched the hand of Tali’s. She had three fingers, yes, but, a hand with three fingers has to look structurally different than a regular human hand with five, right? The placement of the fingers, didn’t really seem like a being who had three fingers cause . . . it was taken from a being that had 5 fingers, right?
 
Question: How come I couldn’t ask the little boy questions at the end?
 
I love RPG and BioWare games. I find information through conservation and investigation!  When the ending happened for me the first time, I didn’t really have an opinion. I just thought that was the ending of the Mass Effect series, of Shepard and his fight against the reapers! Perhaps, the rest of the game, I was still in utter fascination when going through the ending. I loved the encounter with the illusive man! I’m always a big villain fan, so seeing him toward the end was awesome. And he wasn’t a big nasty creature, he kept his Illusive Manness XD Anyway, the second playthrough, first one was with Tali as a love interest, was with my female Shepard with Garrus. I thought Garrus was the biggest player on the Citdal! I wished my version of Shepard put the same moves on Tali XD No wonder she got together with Garrus on my last playthrough  Anyway, that made my second playthrough two-times better  But then, I got to the ending. I had three characters so, obviously, my characters could choose against the choices, each one matching my character  Like this character would choose this one and the other would choose this one :3 Because, if that character was faced with the 3 choices, she or he would definitely choose this one.
 
But, I noticed something . . . I got to say one thing to the ghostly child. Like, when he said that the created will always rebel against the creator, I wanted to ask Do you think the Reapers will rebel against you? Thought that would be kinda cool. I LOVE THE REAPERS! I mean, after meeting Sovereign in Mass Effect 1, I thought, these things are utterly the best villains I have encountered. I so high and might a blah blah blah, you exist because we allow it and you will be destroyed because we demand it! Still get that tinglin’ at the back of my neck! It is awesome! Like, better than Batman versus the Joker awesome! Then Mass Effect 2, and Harbinger, I call him big daddy reaper XD  Trash talking you through the whole game. He might be a machine, but he was utterly pissed off at Shepard! I was expecting a final confrontation between Harbinger and Shepard. Maybe, Harbinger chasing the Normandy! Joker having to do some fancy maneuvers! Harbinger saying all his bull****, totally disregarding the battle! Because Shepard is here. I thought Harbinger had an obsession with Shepard. Why is this human defying the cycle? Why does he fight? What makes him so special? He will not stop us!
 
I was hoping that!  I did get to see him, I can only speculate that he was the reaper that blasted Shepard, glowing yellow eyes :3 It had to be Harbinger! Then, he just flew off . . .  Did the child tell him to fly off? Surely, he would’ve recovered Shepard’s body? Maybe he was overconfident? I don’t know, but if this bastard human decided to ruin our plans for the second time, he would’ve have my undivided attention! Screw this organic waste of space! He needs to DIE! And once he dies, he’ll be SCOOPED UP and studied . . . cause that’s what robots do XD Try to find answers XD
 
Anyway, the ending . . . was cool XD I like how Shepard determination shined with shooting and walking and explosions always make an epic ending! But . . . I wanted to ask the child questions . . . I wanted an investigation choice SO BADLY! I would have loved to ask him questions and he just ignore me saying I knew the truth XD Totally blow me off, cause he had all the answers! Wanted to throw the geth in his face. What about the synthetic killing everyone now?! Huh! I did the impossible. Yeah. Why do you think this you stupid little child! DON’T YOU SEE! WE CAN GET ALONG! But . . . I just basically said one thing about programming or were not machines. It was still trying to reason with the ghostly kid but, I could’ve done more . . . I knew Shepard would’ve done more. Even though I played as Shepard, I made a Shepard, Shepard still had the base personality of: a hero. Either do what it takes or save everyone. The base Shepard would’ve never sided with the Reapers. Kinda wanted to control the Reapers, and say look who has the power now! Like the Illusive Man wanted to do XD Humans are dominate, control all the other races! Yeah! Evil XD But that was against Shepard. He had an agenda, stop the reapers. After playing the ending for a second time . . . stop the reapers weighed little on me  I didn’t think Shepard gave it his all . . . I like in all the endings, he went from I can barely stand Shepard to I’m going to get this DONE! Determination shined through but . . . in his dialogue, it didn’t seem like it  
 
The third playthrough was the hardest for me. I was dragging my feet. Took me 40+ hours to complete the game that only took me 24 hours to complete the first two times . . . I tried to let my relationship with Liara help me get through the game like the one with Garrus did . . . Female Shepard and Liara . . . WHAT?! I’m a guy >:c I would rather stare at women on my screen than a male XD Sorry XD That is my justification  Besides, I don’t think it wrong for people of the same sex to have a relationship. I mean c’mon, we live in a day where anyone who has internet access can instantly talk to someone else with internet access! What the heck is with people in the world? Should a black person and a white person not have a relationship? I remember way back in high school, the teacher was talking about Native Americans back in the slave times. We were talking about the social hierarchy of people. We started from the bottom. Who had least rights? One kid raised his hand and said: A gay, black, jew. And everyone laughed XD
 
I usually use laugher and comedy a lot :3 I think if your laughing or smiling, you can only feel happy!  This whole Mass Effect thing has totally challenged that idea time and time again. Maybe I’m losing the battle Perhaps I should take a Reaper laser to the face like Shepard and walk all battered showing those damn bastard machines, screw you! I’m not dead!
 
Anyway  The last playthrough, even with Liara, I knew what choice I had. I thought it would be great! Because you meet Liara in the very beginning, igniting the love relationship! But it wasn’t enough. The ending for me was depressing because I didn’t feel like Shepard. Not my Shepard, base Shepard if that makes any sense. Why didn’t he try and talk the stupid child out of it? Why didn’t he convince him that his idea, his problem, was wrong? Would’ve been epic to have the child finally cave and he try to call off the Reapers and Harbinger was like – **** THAT. AND THEN!!! THE REPEARS REBELLED?! OH ****! Then, the kid has to think of something fast! Like, that thing you built, you can do this to end them, BUT OH NO! Harbinger like attack! BATTLE epic! Like in Mass Effect 1 with Saren?! Like, WHAT IF HARBINGER TOOK CONTROL OF STAR KID?! OH ****! Then, before the final blow that shepard would do, it is like,
 
YOU’LL KILL EVERYTHING. EVEYRONE WHO CARE FOR, THEY WILL BE GONE.
 
Dilemma but everyone is dying?! WHAT WILL SHEPARD Do?! . . . I always thought Harbinger would try to pull off some assuming control crap on Shepard. I mean, shepard is part synthetic and he would try to fight it off or something. And Harbinger would be like yelling at him.
 
YOU CAN’T WIN, HUMAN.
 
And Shepard reflects on everything! THE WHOLE JOURNEY! The people he met, relationships, choices he made and it goes all the back to base shepard. The hell I can’t win! And he like, just sacrifices himself, blowing up the core and Harbinger tries to stop him, similar to the conflict with the Illusive Man, it would be all dialogue. Or something else plays out XD
 
Question: Putting all artistic integrity aside, does the actions of Shepard conversing with the Star Child, truly match his determination as a hero?
 
There is one thing I cannot wrap my head around . . . and no one has, out of all the collective data out there, stated why it was done this way.
 
Question: Why was the zooming in feature on conservations throttled down while talking to squadmates on the ship?
 
I get that it was very repetitive in the other Mass Effect games if they only had one thing to say but, it made me feel like the conservations mattered. Don’t get me wrong, there were moments like Liara crying or Garrus talking about ruthless calculus but, the conservations without zooming in considerably grew. It turned into a chore to talk to people. Sure, I saw my character’s mouth move and the other person’s mouth move but I was looking in on the conservation instead of being a person in the conservation. Like the interactions between missions, on the shuttle. That’s the BioWare I fell in love with on the Knights of the Old Republic games! I was making decisions. I wasn’t watching, I was playing.
Like, I can only describe it in a stupid analogy XD
 
When playing a BioWare game, I wasn’t the control, the viewer, or the player. I was the director of a movie. Screw the Hollywood cinematics, video games have way better plots and everything XD I totally want every video game I love, turned into a movie! Who cares if it is not up to par with the games or completely adds stuff that makes no sense, it is still a universe that I enjoyed. I would love to see Turians, Quarians, Asari, Geth, the whole universe on a big screen! I can’t even imagine how epic it would be to hear the noise the Reapers make, that loud, I don’t even know how to describe it. A machine voice like Harbinger stating that all life will be exterminated, it would be epic. Totally wish for a computer generated Sonic Movie too before I die XD
 
Anyway, I know about the Free DLC. All cinematics . . . no interactiveness . . . no investigations, no dialogue. I fell in love with Mass Effect 1. The universe, the role playing, the I got to talk to people because what I say matters. Even in multiplayer, if I don’t call out things, work as a team, conserving, our whole squad could die. The ending of Mass Effect 3 took out the dialogue options for me Does all your choices matter? Well, they certainly effect the journey, don’t know about the ending. Maybe you can just shout all of what you accomplished at the ghostly child, or, completely agree with him. Be funny once he says, this will destroy all synthetic – Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s what I want, step aside, weird ass kid, time to kill all you crazy mother ****ers! XD
 
Compared to the rest of the journey, the ending didn’t even come close. What I loved from Mass Effect 2, is that it made me remake characters. I remade characters, playing through the old mass effect one, and all its glory! YEAH! That climbing thing XD Exploring planets, elevators rides. The combat system in Mass Effect 2 was like, I just got a perfectly good shooting system with MY ROLE PLAYING GAME! How kick ass  A shooting game where I make choices, amazing. Well, dialogue choices, I could just run out in the middle of Battlefield 3 and get shot XD It was so awesome too.
 
And I knew from Mass Effect 2, that Mass Effect 3 would have the same impact! I was actually dreading it XD I got to go back to another game, that isn’t so epic just to make the other game more epic . . . so I had three characters made for Mass Effect 3. And after finishing these characters . . . I am done
 
I’m not much of a multiplayer fan. I get the whole, that’s where the money is, get all the multiplayer people to play the game, sale more copies . . . It was cool, the multiplayer, but from the past 2 games, Mass Effect draw for me was single player. I donated $25 dollars to Retake Mass Effect 3 to Child’s Play. I didn’t even know an organization like that existed, giving children a chance to be whatever they want to be. Perhaps they could be a wizard in medieval times, or a space hero in the future! Instead of worrying about how far the cancer has spread.
 
I can’t believe the ending zapped all the fun of the Mass Effect Universe. I would’ve gladly pay for a different ending . . . Everyone who complains about money is utterly retarded. How much would it cost? I don’t know. Would I pay for it? Yes. Simply save $5 dollars a week and I’ll eventually get there. Heck, I can just eat noodles for a month. The free DLC, I don’t know
 
I understand press releases. No one can say anything on their mind but, I would love to see a sentence written by everyone who is in the credits. I know, the two people who talk . . . uh the project director and that one writer . . . right? XD What about the cinematics people? What about the editors? Does anyone else have a voice in the BioWare team? The Mass Effect team? I know they have names, I’ve seen them in the credits XD Heck, even got to read the co-founder of BioWare make a statement.
 
I know there is a lot of feedback. If I made something and all I saw was negative things, I would be pretty depressed. Like, I had all these who loved the universe, or these very few people who loved the universe, and we shared it together because I love creating it and then . . . they hate it. I understand you cannot make everyone happy, it is just not fun being in this “minority”. Being classified as whiny by some guy who didn’t even play the games? Does he have any merit? He certainly has worth because he’s apparently important.
 
But it is easy to become important: I could go and kill someone, writing BioWare in their blood. Simply wait for the authorities, and go to prison without much fuss and the news will just eat it up. But I am not going to do that lol XD BECAUSE THAT IS STUPID >:c I swear, people who read this, if they honestly believe that last statement, no not the one that it would be stupid, the murdering one lol XD They should really get their head examined. I love dark humor if you couldn’t tell XD
 
Anyway, I up to 3,174 words as MICROSOFT WORD SAYS! Who knew I could go this long and randomly jump from topic to topic. I’m going to post this on the BioWare forums, it would probably be my first post!  And I’ll most likely get banned XD Cause, I’ll make a new thread :3 I also jumped to the negative side of things, worst case scenario. Because if that doesn’t happen, well, things just got better XD. Probably have a few screws loose in my noggin’ but, hey, I don’t murdering people . . . even thought I THNK ABOUT IT O.o That was a joke lol XD. Boy, I’m going to get banned for that . . . anyway uh . . .
 
Oh yeah, I do not know how to resolve this whole issue. It seems like BioWare cares, they always want feedback  Kinda hard to place feedback when most article writers believe that all the people in the “minority” are whiners. Would they call the Call of Duty People whiners if all the servers went down for 24 hours . . . probably lol XD.
 
I am trying to hold onto my dear friends at BioWare. I loved all their games, including Mass Effect 3  But the ending, why does it matter so much? Because it was the end to the universe I loved? Because it was the end of the Shepard I created? Because it got so much publicity? Because all the people who hate it, spend more time on the internet than most people and realized they could really change things by voicing their opinions because the so-called 3.5 million people who bought the game, don’t go on the internet and voice their opinions? Some articles I read said BioWare caused this themselves?! Digging their whole of player choices. What a load of garbage XD
 
BioWare, you and me can kick that guy in the nads >:c  If it is a woman . . .uh . . . we’ll tell her that she is a dirty pirate hooker or something XD Oh, I wonder how many people read this far . . . I hope I’m entertaining. I’m just trying to get my jumbled thoughts in order . . . with mis-spellings and grammar mistakes and run run run-on sentences XD Can’t wait to check back and see if anyone commented. This guy is a moron! He lives in his mother’s basement or something. MY DICK! All the douchebags. I read a comment about someone saying it was all the people who survived the 16 bit era causing this problem. That modern gamers don’t cause it. Modern gamers just like to shoot things in an unrealistic fashion.
 
Call of Duty showed that, grossing SO MUCH MONEY!!!! O.O   And now, what I try to hang onto, is good ol’ fashion choice driven games. Like, you can do this or do that. You can talk to this person and find he’s a complete douchebag and this person is waaaay to nice. Story driven. And those games, are fading.
 
Before this whole ending, there was Bethesda and BioWare for me. Now, there is just Bethesda. I could play one of their games longer than the average World of Warcraft characters, but for story purposes, it was all BioWare baby! Now, I’m not so sure.
 
My voice, my feelings, are insignificant. If I stop buying BioWare games, five people will buy the game. Everyone is doing one thing here on this dilemma, and that is Ruthless Calculus.
 
3.5 million people bought it. Scores were given to the game by critics, all the scores were great! How many people we see complaining . . . most definitely not over 250, 000, maybe not over 100,000. What is that? Like, 3% ? Well, 3% shouldn’t really matter. There is so much data out there why the ending was . . . sucky, why people are mad. Why is BioWare releasing a FREE DLC ? Some people are mad about them not growing balls and telling everyone that this is our game, back off. Wait, what? They are releasing a free DLC and you’re mad? Do you even play Mass Effect? NO. >:c Artistic integrity man! Oh, does a video game company have that much of a say in the world of artistic integrity?
 
This whole problem is draining. Do I care if a DLC is free or not? The DLC will extend the ending, more stuff I already know about. Oh, turns out the mass effect relays were destroyed without destroying systems!  Wait? What? What about Arrival? OH YEAH, they flung an asteroid at it. This energy is pretty different? Oh really? Did everyone forget that it panned out, looking at the galaxy? You saw the waves of light, right? Brighter than the stars in the galaxy XD Okay, if it wasn’t destructive, everyone will get cancer in two months or everyone is officially blinded XD
 
And everyone who didn’t play the first few games, do you have right to call others whiny? XD I came into Mass Effect series at the conclusion, it was a great game, pfft lol XD Okay, 4000 words of nothing lol XD Wrapping up.
 
I’m sorry BioWare. I am sorry things have ended badly ( NO pun intended but I got to love the irony XD ) with me and you. I enjoyed our time together, but it has ended for me if the ending isn’t more interactive. I truly believe the character on the screen talking with the child wasn’t Shepard. I could care less about the fate of the galaxy. I do not see how certain things didn’t make it in the ending. Surely there was a board meeting or a sit and talk session about this right? About all the things that people look forward too? Like Tali’s face? I know you have to stand by your decisions but, please, what happened? Did anyone think using a stock photo for her face was a bad idea?
 
The statement has always been feedback. I would love feedback from everyone on the Mass Effect team. Do it anonymously! Take polls in your own team! I want to salvation something from this experience  The only thing I can think of is, Garrus, the boyfriend, talking about a turian-human baby XD
 
I will be downloading the DLC, I would’ve downloaded anything Mass Effect DLC . . . except the multiplayer stuff XD. I hope things will get better, but considering all the information about this DLC to satisfy people who don’t like the ending . . . it won’t for me and you, BioWare
 
UNLESS !!!! OH!!! You could pull of the BEST MARKETING STRATEGY I EVER SAW!!!
Telling everyone the DLC is non-interactive, it won’t change the ending and low and behold . . .
You lied XD The DLC came out and it was interactive and it did change the ending!
You know, the exact opposite of what happened with Mass Effect 3 ending and all the statements XD
 
That’s the only hope I have left . . .
Thank you for all the people who’ve read this XD
Thank for of any BioWare staff, worker, website tinkering for reading this.
Thanks BioWare for making a cool universe and awesome characters.
 
Of all the future titles you release, I will most likely not buy them.
I just can’t get over the ending, baby. I hope you understand . . . LOL XD
Unless, you can make it up to me  - kiss, kiss BioWare, it was fun while it lasted.

After reading through this again, I realize that I am completely retarded for pushing the submit button at the bottom of the page XD  But it must be done!
Here is, I shall press this little button
Or just look at the funny emoticons lol 

[Swordser]

Rasofe wrote...

What they should do is no longer under question. It is clear that what they should do is not something they will do.

Instead, it is perhaps best to discuss what they will do, and how they can make the most out of what they will do.

Which, in a nutshell, means that your in-game choices for the galaxy are superimposed and finalized with the ABC choice at the end, rather than the ABC choice being the ending all by itself. That is probably the best they will do.

As soon as we accept that, we accept a horrible ending to an amazing series everyone's poured so much effort into. I will not accept that. We have the advantage here, we make the demand. If they don't play their cards right, they lose a huge amount of profit and fanbase, just as they're already losing huge amounts of popularity and trust. We have the power. Hold the line!

[Changer the Elder]

AkaXan wrote...

(...)
The end looks like it was writen outwidth the peer aproval procedure and it shows. The proof being the steller writing through the games up until the reaper beam.

BTW I paid for the game, I listend to Casy Hudson promice that player choices mattered and that to give ME3 an A, B or C ending that dosent reflect the players input would be completly wrong. So I have every right to point out how awful the endings are and to call Bioware out on thier lies.

Sometimes, you have to make a stand as the creator and draw the line between what's OK as a peer review and what do you keep despite it, because you believe in it. No one is an all-knowing genius, sometimes it works, sometimes it backfires. But considering how some fanfictions look like, some peer reviews and ideas are something what I wouldn't want in my story. And it being my story, I can actually decide whether to put it in or no. That's the right of any writer and artist out there. I'm not saying it would be in this case a bad or good idea to listen to alternative views and follow them, but I have to give credit to the people and say they had the right to take that stand. And seeing the critical approval of the game, it's not like it was a bad call for everyone.

And by any means, I'm not saying you don't have the right to point out how awful the endings are. I just say you don't have the right to demand Bioware as a company or the people behind it to immediately quit their business.

[Daap]

Found this thought it was funny and true tbh

[jeweledleah]

I know of several people who are not particularly bothered by the endings... becasue they are used to filling in the holes and writing their own versions through fanfiction. I know of exactly one person who thought the ending was a fitting conclusion for their Shepard and doesn't resort to "you are just not smart enough to understand"

that person loves the tragic symbolism of it. the self sacrifice part. their interpretation of Joker scene is also not the one we're supposed to have canonically. and I'm ok with that.

I'm NOT ok with having to take that ending (yes, singular) at face value and I'm not ok with it being the ONLY ending.

[Kain82]

Was thinking of going through ME3 for my 2nd time but there's no ****ing point in the end. The passion and motivation is gone. Was also strongly considering buying Old Republic but will just wait for something else now, the trust isn't there anymore.

Giving us additional multiple endings for ME3 would fix everything in a heartbeat, but you know what Bioware? I say stick to your "artistic integrity" by ignoring most of your paying and loving customers, see how that goes.

Modifié par Kain82, 08 avril 2012 - 07:33 .

[Jassu1979]

I feel there has been a lot of misrepresentation on the part of Bioware and the press when it came to presenting the critics' position to the public:

No, the primary objection was NOT that the ending was "too dark".
No, the primary objection was NOT that the ending was too open.

It is extremely dishonest to portray us as a bunch of whiny simpletons who simply crave a stupid, dumbed-down fairy tale ending.

The heart of the matter is that the ending as-is does not make any sense, fails even on the most basic terms of story-telling, and violates both the game universe's canon and the basic themes and plots of ME3 in particular.

And while I grant you that "art" is almost impossible to define (and that there's definitely such a thing as bad art), the ending as-is is neither artsy nor intellectual. The Star Child's argument is riddled with plot holes and circular logic, and the whole sequence simply does not fit the rest of the series. No non-interactive epilogue or cut scene can fix this, unless it entails some spectacular plot twist that somehow unmakes the final five minutes of disastrously sub-par writing.

[Changer the Elder]

Jassu1979 wrote...

I feel there has been a lot of misrepresentation on the part of Bioware and the press when it came to presenting the critics' position to the public:

No, the primary objection was NOT that the ending was "too dark".
No, the primary objection was NOT that the ending was too open.

It is extremely dishonest to portray us as a bunch of whiny simpletons who simply crave a stupid, dumbed-down fairy tale ending.

Problem is, very small number of fans actually do take their time and explain what they dislike. At least compared to the general amount of negative mail, where the most is usually consisting of "u suck make it better or I fire u" (The you-fail-at-grammar exercise sometimes being part of it, sometimes not) or "I don't want XY to die and I hate you because of it, change it".

I'm not saying everyone does that and I'm not saying any specific group of people is exclusive to it. But when speaking in math-related terms, most feedback is shallow like that.

[Ghostsaxon]

I Loved the Mass Effect Series!
I Played Mass Effect 1,and 2 over 30 times
Mass Effect 3 is a great game! EXCEPT THE ENDING!! Not that shepard dies! Not that its bitter sweet!
IT MAKES NO SENCE!!

It Ruins the flow of such a great trilogy that i can not replay mass effect 3 like i could the other 2 and believe me i have tried.

As an avid rpg gamer it saddens me. There is such a lack of good rpg games that i believe thats why people are so upset. " Help us Bioware your our only hope" Except for (CD Prject red)

Its not to late. Please swallow your pride and re do the game from the beam on and i will happily pay for a new ending with Closer! Purpose! Accomplishment! Not a supposed Death and then magicly be brought to life aboard the normandy with a message saying i am legendary and continue playing with dlc. I cannot continue playing after seeing that ending in good concious as an avid rpg'r...sorry.


Thanks for letting me air my thoughts,
Doubtfull your listning....
Xbox Lve Gamer tag Ghost Saxon

[PaulHarald]

Dunga780 wrote...

Everyone keeps calling this art. It's not. It's a game. It was created for others to enjoy. Obviously, Bioware failed. What's astonishing is that they failed in such an odd way. They had everything right. It was a perfect game, until the end. And the ending was so bad, it invalidated all the previous enjoyment we got. I read an article that said some stores are actually giving full cash refunds, even for used copies, in order to satisfy customers. Forbes is covering this. This is a huge debacle, and Bioware is standing by it's "artistic integrity"? WTF! I think I'd respect them more if they said, "Yeah, we messed up. Sorry. We'll fix it." If a bridge design is faulty an engineer doesn't get to stand by his artistic integrity, He's told to fix it or else. This is a mess. Bioware, I love you. Fix it.

This!! So very much this!!!