Aller au contenu

Photo

On the Mass Effect 3 endings. Yes, we are listening.


  • Ce sujet est fermé Ce sujet est fermé
23455 réponses à ce sujet

#15701
Jackal7713

Jackal7713
  • Members
  • 1 661 messages

sefudargo wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening.

from the Extended DLC and not talking about the ending or the DLC at PAX. No, you are not listining.

We have been telling you to retcon or even take the indoctrination Theory and make a new ending but all we get back is NOPE. Ending stays here have some Free DLC that helps Explain it because your didn't Understand orginaly


Yea and this makes you go, " oh thanks for calling me a moron, douche"and "Oh you want more of my money?" I don't think so.

Modifié par Jackal7713, 09 avril 2012 - 05:42 .


#15702
EugeneBi

EugeneBi
  • Members
  • 179 messages
I am pretty sure they do listen. They need to know how bad the situation is. If they get impression that everybody is happy with the suggested DLC, they will really do it.

Just to make clear: I do not like this plan. Please reconsider.

#15703
Horus Blackheart

Horus Blackheart
  • Members
  • 383 messages
I dont like this plan ether. As stratagies go it's prity dire.

#15704
sefudargo

sefudargo
  • Members
  • 73 messages

EugeneBi wrote...

I am pretty sure they do listen. They need to know how bad the situation is. If they get impression that everybody is happy with the suggested DLC, they will really do it.

Just to make clear: I do not like this plan. Please reconsider.

hopefully this is just them testing the waters see if the storm calms down. if it doesn't work I hope one of them slaps some one in the head saying

"hey look at what the fans have made and suggested. you know if we just fallow this we could make everthing clear and make everyone satisfied"

" you know that is a good idea thanks for slapping the horrible thing we where going to do next out of me. what was I thinking. we should have listened to the fans from the get go."

EDIT: wow there is alot of opertunity for some inapropiate swear word glade im not a teenager anymore

Modifié par sefudargo, 09 avril 2012 - 06:07 .


#15705
Omnike

Omnike
  • Members
  • 284 messages

EugeneBi wrote...

I am pretty sure they do listen. They need to know how bad the situation is. If they get impression that everybody is happy with the suggested DLC, they will really do it.

Just to make clear: I do not like this plan. Please reconsider.


I think this plan is their way of thinking "we'll fix it without admitting we're wrong"

#15706
sefudargo

sefudargo
  • Members
  • 73 messages

Omnike wrote...

EugeneBi wrote...

I am pretty sure they do listen. They need to know how bad the situation is. If they get impression that everybody is happy with the suggested DLC, they will really do it.

Just to make clear: I do not like this plan. Please reconsider.


I think this plan is their way of thinking "we'll fix it without admitting we're wrong"

because admitting you are wrong is so much worse then delivering a full satisfying ending

#15707
neddy471

neddy471
  • Members
  • 10 messages
Bear in mind that after an (intense) feeling of letdown, I did process and eventually begin to understand the "magical" turn of the Ending - "Any technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic." I am not an apologist for the ending, but I understand what they were going for. But I have two main concerns:

1) Is this ending just an excuse to sell DLC? (Even with the proposed "Extended Cut") If so, I see a rash of cancellations of subscriptions and a continuing vow to never buy an EA or Bioware game ever again - not because the ending was BAD, but because the cold, calculating manipulation of emotional commitment and brand loyalty into DLC dollar signs is not the sort of behavior I want to encourage.

2) Will the ending better reflect the original intent of the writers? I've heard a lot about rumors of internal arguments and changes to the script because fan guesses were too close to the script. However, I believe that overall, the decisions of the writing staff, throughout Mass Effect, have been excellent, even, and sometimes especially (I'm thinking of Thessia and the Collector Base) when I didn't agree with them. Anything that brings this artistic genius to the forefront is good in my book.

Just comments that I wanted to put out there. I would prefer to not have Bioware lose a customer here, as can be detected, I'm a devoted fan who has bought all the games on multiple platforms. I hope to continue slavishly devoting my money and time on their games.

As these forums indicate, I'm not the only one.

#15708
remed

remed
  • Members
  • 6 messages
I will keep my fingers crossed over this extended Cut DLC. I am amazed by how detail oriented some of my fellow fans are and how thoroughly they've analyzed every aspect of the Mass Effect universe. They know it better than the developers, which is probably why the ending really felt like a huge betrayal to these so called "passionate" fans. But I respect and I admire them. And I respect and admire and support their continued discontent that the ending won't be changed but simply "explained" or "clarified." Below is a link to a great article that explains why the ending is so dissatisfying to the most dedicated Mass Effect fans. It explains our feelings and thoughts better than I could:
http://kotaku.com/58...nvested-players

Let me just say that Mass Effect 3 is an excellent game. I loved it. Except for the ending. So, yes, it's understandable that most critics loved the game.  Most are probably casual fans of the series, or they may not be fans at all, so they don't know the ins and outs of the universe as these dedicated fans do. So the ending was easier for them to stomach and get over. But not for those who knew this universe like the back of their hands. The ending didn't make sense to them, and because of that, the game, though, excellent, just isn't right.  As for me, I consider myself a passionate fan, but probably not to the same devoted extent as some of the posters here who have impressively analyzed every detail and science of the game. So, from a personal stanpoint, I would be happy with this extended cut dlc even if it didn't change the ending as long as a couple of things are met:

1) Not every decision Shepard made was trivialized, reversed, or rendered irrelevant: for example, what good is giving the quarians back their home world if their fleet is stuck in the Sol System because the Mass Relays are destroyed? What good is brokering peace between the Geth and Quarians if all the Geth are killed by my destroy option? I understand I don't have to choose destroy, I could choose control or synthesize, but then the whole peace thing wouldn't matter on any of those choices if I either control synthetitics or make everyone some kind of organic-synthetic hybrid.  What good is curing the genophage when most male Krogans are fighting wars in different systems and their females are in Tuchanka? They still can't mate. So, in the end, nothing Shepard did, no decisions he made, no victories he accomplished, mattered because the Mass Relays are destroyed. And that is the major issue I have of this ending. Most of the plotholes I can live with or ignore or rationalize. I'm fine with that. But the reason I currently don't have the heart to replay this game or even ME1 and ME2  is because I now know none of what I accomplished would matter much in the end.  If Bioware can extend their ending with a cutscene giving us some kind of hope...like, oh, the mass relays aren't really ALL destroyed or there are some other means of transportation we didn't know about, I might be OK with the addended ending.

2) The Normandy crash landing on some random planet is explained. This scene to me really came out of nowhere. I still don't even know how to ignore or rationalize this one. And it bothers me. Never mind that it bothers me that Javik  pops out of the Normandy for me in the end along with Shepard's LI. I mean, this was a character I got in a DLC who wasn't with Shepard since the beginning. And I got the DLC because I bought the Collector's Edition. I really did not care for this character much and barely used him in my game, and he pops out in the end. Not Garrus. Not Liara. Not Tali. Those peeps were Shepard's true friends. I'm supposed to be reassured this dude survived? I don't understand. And he's the guy who wants to go back to where his fellow Protheans were buried and end his life. Now he can't even get that because he's stuck on some random planet. I guess this is my other big issue with the current ending: there is no closure provided because each of the character's wishes can't even be fulfilled any more. I understand if Shepard had to die, but again, his sacrifice seems so trivial when all the people he cared about can't get happiness or closure. They should, through his death or sacrifice, at least get some happines or reassurance from it. Otherwise what good is Shepard dying for his friends and the galaxy accomplishing? Nothing. You want to get back to your home world Tali? Nope. I don't even know where you are at the end of the game. On earth, dead, also in the jungle planet? You want to help refugees from Thessia, Liara? Don't know where you are either. Garrus, did you forget to die, are you waiting for Shepard in that bar in heaven, did you get back to Palaven, maybe? Nope, don't know. Maybe you're still trying to calibrate stuff in the broken crashlanded Normandy and didn't come out yet by the time the credits started rolling? Don't know. Sorry, Wrex, either you're dead or stuck on earth and your baby Krogan will be named Mordin whether you like it or not. Ashley, your sister Sarah is probably dead in the Citadel and your whole family is God knows where, and you won't know, because you're stuck in a jungle planet now. And it's all coz your boyfriend decided to blow up the Reapers. But hey, at least he didn't try to turn you into an organic-synthetic hybrid.  Hey, Vega, you can never be N7 now. You're in a jungle planet. Or maybe you're dead. Who knows. Only Joker can be happy with EDI if we chose synthesize. But then he's still kinda limpy even as an organic-synthetic hybrid. What's up with that? It's not enough that Shepard died and none of his choices or accomplishments mattered. Now all his friends have to be unhappy with unfulfilled wishes. And it doesn't matter whether you chose control, synthesize, or destroy. Your friends will never be happy or get any bittersweet closure from your death. They might not even know you're dead, coz they're busy running away abandoning you. So yeah, those jerks maybe deserved to be unhappy. Please, Bioware, explain this Normandy blasting away from the action then getting stranded on a jungle planet thing.

3) If my Shepard survived (mine did), explain how he survived and for God's sake, just give the man or woman a happy ending of some kind. Make him or her reunite with his or her LI somehow. And if you are adamant that they have to die, and that breath was their last breath, just have the LI present somehow to give them their final poignant farewell. Bury the charred body. Or char it some more by burning it a la Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi. Something.

4) Voluses dancing in celebration -- okay, to quote EDI: "That was a joke." But it would be a plus to see that.

If those things are addressed appropriately, I think I can finally replay this game again and enjoy the ride, as I did prior to experiencing the soul-shattering ending. I have no problems with Shepard dying. I hope I am not out of place for saying that I think a majority of the fans also don't have a problem with Shepard dying or sacrificing himself. Yes, it was rather a poor way of getting Shepard to die in that it felt forced because all the choices presented to him will lead to his demise, and yes, the whole god-child, star-child, whatever that little ghost-runt thing is called, came out of nowhere and we were forced to accept its weird, messed up logic, but we could overlook all that if what we did, if the choices we made in the three games, MATTERED. But they didn't because of what I explained above. And that is what killed this game for me.

And it's too bad, because really, Bioware did not need to do that kind of ending. The game was amazing and incredible until the end. An average, cookie-cutter ending, happy or sad, would have sufficed. Instead, for reasons I cannot comprehend, Bioware tried to suddenly be "artsy" with the end to make the game memorable.  But it would have been memorable despite a  straightforward, predictable ending. And now, it's memorable for all  the wrong reasons--for a highly controversial, highly debated, highly polarizing ending. Which is unfortunate, because it really should have been memorable as a game that invoked player emotion, that got players highly invested in their Shepards, that successfully balanced--I think--the action-RPG components to the game. Now it's just this game with this ending that people think are either terrible or a highly misunderstood work of art.

I am a supporter of art. I even kept an open-mind about  that guy who splattered poop on a canvas and called it art and displayed it in a museum. Fine. I support Bioware's art. I want them to maintain their artistic integrity. An art should invoke emotion. It can inspire, it can sadden, it can shock people. Perhaps I had misinterpreted their art all this time. I had thought the artistic message was to inspire, to invoke hope (didnt' Shepard keep talking about hope in ME3? He even told the ghost-runt thing "Without hope, what else is there? I thought that was the whole theme). The past 2 games and most of ME 3 were all about hope and inspiring hope in the midst of all the sadness. And Bioware colored it with choice. That as long as you can choose, you can hope, and yes, there's sadness, but you choose your destiny and if you make the right choices, there is hope for victory, for success, for beating the impossible. And then, in the end, all of a sudden, there was no choice and, as described above when all of Shepard's accomplishments were rendered irrelevant and his friends all unhappy, there was no hope. Just massive chaos. So...did I just misinterpret Bioware's art? Or did they betray their own "artistic integrity" that they now keep talking about as their defense for their ending? People have brought up Red Dead Redemption as another ending that was sad and polarizing. But the whole game was presented as a bleak Western, as Marston unable to escape his fate. You knew his happiness would be fleeting because the entire game the world was against him. He kept trying to redeem himself but his past would always come back to haunt him, as it did many times in that game. And no choice was involved in that game. You didn't create Marston. Rockstar did. And they presented him as a character who cannot escape his past. Who could never be happy. So the ending was no shocker. It was consistent with the "art" being conveyed through the whole game. Not so with Mass Effect, which presented itself as a Star Wars, Star Trek like epic genre that had choice and hope for salvation as its theme. So I don't think Bioware should be worried about keeping the "artistic integrity" of the game--as far as I'm concerned, an extended ending with closure and hope would be going along with the artistic integrity of the series. It was the ending that was out of place. It's still art, but to make the game memorable, the end was made to be shocking instead of a straightforward, but expertly presented inspiring one. I expected a conventional, but beautifully rendered artwork, like Mona Lisa, with that sad expression mixed with a mysterious--perhaps hopeful--smile. But then Bioware shocked us by splattering poop all over its canvas. Yes, it's still art...but now it's harder for most people to swallow because it was a Mona Lisa once...and now there's poop on it.

So, please, Bioware, I still support you, and I am still trying to come to grips with your art...but please, I implore you, do a good job explaining the poop on the canvas, since you chose to explain it and keep it as it is instead of just cleaning it all up and finishing up your Mona Lisa as it should have been...pristine, memorable, invoking sadness while inspiring hope. It can still do all that even with poopage, if you can explain why that was necessary to complete your art. I'm really rooting for you and hoping that you can do that.

P.S: I have no idea if this has already been broug ht up before in other message boards or in the internet, but when the Normandy is escaping earth in the intro, right before the giant Mass Effect 3 sign comes up, there's a burning wreckage of a dreadnought in the left lower corner of the screen. And I could swear that etched on that burning piece of that dreadnought is "EA." Subliminal message? Hidden opinion about EA? Am I imagining things? Do any of you see this too?

#15709
MissLiya

MissLiya
  • Members
  • 304 messages
I just don`t get it...
Why just simply WHY Bioware, you couldn't do just a NORMAL ending, instead of ARTISTIC one. It`s lame. goshhhh.
We ALREADY were in love with Mass Effect Galaxy! Why you felt like you have to prove something to us with this ending? Why?? You didn`t have to prove anything. WE LOVED IT ALREADY! You didn`t have to break our hearts :(

Modifié par MissLiya, 09 avril 2012 - 06:22 .


#15710
spartanmax52000

spartanmax52000
  • Members
  • 133 messages
Brent Knowles, a veteran lead designer who had been with BioWare for a decade and the central figurehead behind Dragon Age: Origins, decided to resign during the designing process of Dragon Age II and eventually left the company, stating "I'm not the same person I was when I started, and BioWare is not the same company

#15711
Iosu

Iosu
  • Members
  • 38 messages

spartanmax52000 wrote...

Brent Knowles, a veteran lead designer who had been with BioWare for a decade and the central figurehead behind Dragon Age: Origins, decided to resign during the designing process of Dragon Age II and eventually left the company, stating "I'm not the same person I was when I started, and BioWare is not the same company


Sounds like indoctrination.

#15712
GarrusVFan

GarrusVFan
  • Members
  • 100 messages
 There's so much I want to say, and yet there aren't words to describe what I'm feeling about all of this. (Either that or my head is so messed up from this ordeal that I just can't formulate the proper words to describe how messed up all of this really is.)  For starters, maybe, rage, confusion, desperation, and whatever feeling accompanies the result of being kicked in the balls?  

I want answers, directly from the mouth of whoever is making these catastrophic decisions.  Whoever decided that the ending(s) was a good idea to begin with, and now, whoever decided that the endings were still a good idea, but apparently, the game's fan-base is too... "uneducated" to appreciate the "artistic value" of the endings.(This is assuming it took more than 1 retard to destroy this Trilogy)
I wonder, Bioware, is it your goal to ****** off your fan-base and destroy your company from the inside-out?  Are you just... sick of making money, and sick of the praise you've been getting since the release of ME1 and DA??  So much so that you want to commit social suicide and cost your companies' employees their jobs?

Put it this way, come summer, if you release a DLC just simply "clarifying" the endings (because we're obviously too stupid to really understand, right?) I am DONE with you, and I hope that many others join me.  So many in fact, that your company goes bankrupt, as it would be nothing short of what you deserve.

When and if that happens, I want the fool who made these decisions to look back and think, "Hmm well it's too late now, but maybe we should have listened to the MILLIONS (NOT EXAGGERATING) of posts on how horrible our ending was, and we should have gone the extra mile to redeem ourselves when we had the chance, rather than "clarifying" (more like shoving down our throats) the disasterous ending(s) that we came up with."

Modifié par GarrusVFan, 09 avril 2012 - 07:27 .


#15713
AwefulShot

AwefulShot
  • Members
  • 48 messages
I have been away for a bit. Any official word on anything to do with an April DLC release?

#15714
Omnike

Omnike
  • Members
  • 284 messages

AwefulShot wrote...

I have been away for a bit. Any official word on anything to do with an April DLC release?


No, they just said this summer. So if I had to tack a time on that, I'd say late May to late August. But don't quote me on that.

#15715
stellap20

stellap20
  • Members
  • 40 messages

Omnike wrote...

AwefulShot wrote...

I have been away for a bit. Any official word on anything to do with an April DLC release?


No, they just said this summer. So if I had to tack a time on that, I'd say late May to late August. But don't quote me on that.


there is a multiplayer DLC coming out tommorow apparently but dont expect much from it

#15716
Omnike

Omnike
  • Members
  • 284 messages

stellap20 wrote...

Omnike wrote...

AwefulShot wrote...

I have been away for a bit. Any official word on anything to do with an April DLC release?


No, they just said this summer. So if I had to tack a time on that, I'd say late May to late August. But don't quote me on that.


there is a multiplayer DLC coming out tommorow apparently but dont expect much from it


It's a few new races and two new maps. Won't affect story in any way (other than readiness).

#15717
garytwine

garytwine
  • Members
  • 81 messages
You know, I just had a thought. According to the 'Multiverse Theory' there is a parallel version of the Earth where Bioware actually created the perfect ending which made sense. And then another where, after messing the ending up they decided to change it for their fans. The theory even allows for a world that the events of Mass Effect actually happened.

Unfortunately we're stuck on the one where it's all gone ****** up :-)

#15718
Eryri

Eryri
  • Members
  • 1 853 messages

Daramatis wrote...

For me, possibly the best moment was the introduction of Kaidan as a gay love interest, which I didn't know about until I had the conversation with him on the Citadel. I have the Collector's Edition guide which seemed to suggest he was only available to female Shepards, so I was totally unprepared for his revelation, I was amazed, stunned! I even checked the forums to make sure I hadn't done something wrong and had encountered a bug! To put this into context, as a gay man and long-time gamer I've been used to having to role play heterosexual in games - no real big deal for me, opened my eyes to "the other side of the fence". :)

I remember some of the forum activity when gay relationships were mooted for ME2, and when "alien sexual activity" was reported in some media in a somewhat hysterical way. So to discover that the character I was drawn to the most from ME1, and who I had imagined my Shepard being closest to through the entire story arc, had most empathy for, could be romanced, that was a hugely memorable moment for me, as a gamer and as a gay man in society - important because of the bravery of Bioware to address this issue, to take a chance at possibly alienating some players with no guarantee of a countering positive reaction - Bioware didn't have to add this, I'd have played it, indeed was playing it without knowing this was possible. And the gentle, respectful way it was handled was beautiful - not gratuitous but emotionally tender - the voice actors (Mark Meer and Raphael Sbarge) did a breathtaking job of conveying the emotional content of the romance scenes - my utter thanks and respect to the writers, actors and graphics dept. for capturing these moments - from the minute facial expression changes - Shepard's initial surprise at the revelation, to the smile of understanding he felt the same, to the smile when Kaidan comes to his cabin and distracts him at the door with a bottle of wine, the playful but charged love scene, to the final conversation in London and one last kiss.

:)


Agreed. My male Shepard romanced Kaidan too. Bioware does deserve praise for this. And even EA deserves praise for standing up to the homophobic lobbying from assorted right wing nutters. 

Now if only Shep and Kaidan could have their happy ending, get married and buy a vinyard on Eden Prime (instead of Shep getting his face burned off, and Kaidan getting marooned God-knows-where), the game would be perfect!:D

#15719
Changer the Elder

Changer the Elder
  • Members
  • 144 messages
I wonder whether some people actually heard about the concept of patience. Instead of being optimistic, everyone says "Nah, it's gonna suck anyway and I already hate it" (there's even a whole thread about that). No one knows what's going to be in the DLC. Literally, no one. At this point, I presume not even its creators have more than a slowly shaping plan and maybe starting to forge a script for each character and race. None of us knows what exactly to imagine with "clarification" and "extended cut". (If you do, well, good morning, Sibyl.)

Words have the nasty habit of being read in the exactly same mental voice that commands the mind at the given point. But it may be worth it giving them the benefit of a doubt.

#15720
IcyNeko

IcyNeko
  • Members
  • 4 messages


I think this summary is fantastic. It breaks down story telling errors, plus analysis. It pretty much summarizes how I felt, plus voiced things I kinda felt but didn't know how to word. But since "we are listening", listen. Because the world is saying the same thing. ;P

#15721
GarrusVFan

GarrusVFan
  • Members
  • 100 messages

Changer the Elder wrote...

I wonder whether some people actually heard about the concept of patience. Instead of being optimistic, everyone says "Nah, it's gonna suck anyway and I already hate it" (there's even a whole thread about that). No one knows what's going to be in the DLC. Literally, no one. At this point, I presume not even its creators have more than a slowly shaping plan and maybe starting to forge a script for each character and race. None of us knows what exactly to imagine with "clarification" and "extended cut". (If you do, well, good morning, Sibyl.)

Words have the nasty habit of being read in the exactly same mental voice that commands the mind at the given point. But it may be worth it giving them the benefit of a doubt.


True, we won't know what will be on the dlc, but we know what won't be on the dlc as Bioware has already released a statement regarding that.

It will not be new endings.  All they plan on doing is adding a few cut scenes, and dialogues and in an attempt to "clarify" their half-assed ending(s). 
It's not anything that's going to redeem bioware.  Since it is going to be a free dlc, they are going to put pretty much no work into it, and really the end result will be no different (if not worse) than the current situation and opinions regarding the ending(s).

Modifié par GarrusVFan, 09 avril 2012 - 07:53 .


#15722
Daap

Daap
  • Members
  • 18 messages

OrangeLazarus86 wrote...

If you truly were listening BioWare then you'd understand, we don't want an extension. We want an ending where there's either no Star Child or we can argue the Star Child's logic null and void because of the Geth if made peace.

Here's a video of how it should have went down.

www.youtube.com/watch



Wow amazing this should be 1 of the 16 endings we were promised , well done

#15723
AmstradHero

AmstradHero
  • Members
  • 1 239 messages
To reiterate what many others have said in this thread:

It is insufficient to merely listen. You need to understand and take the criticisms that have been directed at the ending. Not at BioWare staff. Not at EA. "Artistic integrity" is not served by retaining the ending. As it stands, the ending is derivative, contrived, lacking in the choice and variety that has been present in the entire series, and as such does not logically or thematically follow on from the rest of the series.

The idea of "the universe is bigger than anything and all living races are insignificant", as is effectively done by the star child is not a theme that has been put forward as anything except for insulting rhetoric by Reapers up until this point. To foist it unceremoniously on players right and the end of the game is not a triumph of writing, literary art, or art in general. It is a triumph of the necessity of including established themes of the science fiction genre as a whole on a game that had effectively eschewed these frequently discussed ideas. Mass Effect was successful because it chose to avoid this line of thinking. BioWare created an implied contract with the player through their actions during the game, and during all the promotional material for all three games in the series that Commander Shepard would have a profound effect on the galaxy. To go back on this implied contract (arguably made explicitly by the claims of multiple of varied endings before the release of the third game) with the player at the very end of the trilogy represents a grave betrayal of the player base, which is why they are so upset.

TLDR:
The ending DLC as proposed will not fix the problems with the ending. If you truly are listening to the fans, you would understand that, and you would not be releasing the proposed DLC as is.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 09 avril 2012 - 07:55 .


#15724
Orkney11

Orkney11
  • Members
  • 13 messages
Check this out. Spot on.


Modifié par Orkney11, 09 avril 2012 - 08:01 .


#15725
AmstradHero

AmstradHero
  • Members
  • 1 239 messages

OrangeLazarus86 wrote...

If you truly were listening BioWare then you'd understand, we don't want an extension. We want an ending where there's either no Star Child or we can argue the Star Child's logic null and void because of the Geth if made peace.

Here's a video of how it should have went down.

www.youtube.com/watch

It's amazing how something as simple as this would have made everyone incredibly happy.

Excellent work that puts the official ending to shame.