23455 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

still why would ems factor make whether or not that the galaxy is destroyed cause notice if you don't get enough ems you actually do destroy the earth lol

[LiarasShield]

[babachewie]

LiarasShield wrote...

still why would ems factor make whether or not that the galaxy is destroyed cause notice if you don't get enough ems you actually do destroy the earth lol

Cause its a video game and video games need to have video gamey type systems like this sometimes. Those who do more get more. Those who dont....well dont

[SP2219]

The amount of speculation and confusion on this page alone is valid proof ME3's ending is not a real ending. Oh, wait, there are 640 previous pages just like this one............

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

StillOverrated wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...

Changer the Elder wrote...

@ LittleBlueChildrenNow
Running out of time is a concept that seems to be generally accepted on both sides of the fence as a reason for the closing sequences being pretty much one video edited three times with different overlay effects. Still, even though most of the "pro-enders" acknowledge and even embrace the argument that the game leaves too much empty space for debate and didn't show the consequences that matter to some people (even though they are there, technically), it's usually considered not a major flaw. Definitely not major enough to start hating the whole game, let alone whole trilogy.

Hoping I won't be stoned to death here, for barging into this discussion, but... I agree. I know it's a matter of opinion, but I still maintain that, no matter how much of a pile of BS the ending was in my book, it's not enough to destroy the whole Mass Effect experience for me. It's still the journey that matters, even though you know what awaits you at the end of the road. Is one bad ending (to the whole triology, granted...) enough to destroy three otherwise really great games for you? People should think about the good time they've had with the series, instead of zeroing in on the closure only (or, well, lack therof), even though I do admit it is a very crucial part in the whole series. The bad experiences people have had with ME are disproportionate compared to the good ones, else there wouldn't be so many fans caring about the game. I think people need to get this before refusing to even touch one of the games ever again.

Butting in nao:
I'm guessing people sometimes get so invested in story and , particularly, the characters that if there's something extremely wrong with the story (namely the ME3 ending) or if the characters are somehow put on a bus, they'll just refuse to touch it ever again because all they feel when they do it is that rage and confusion they felt when they reached the part where it all went downhill. Call it emotional immaturity or investing too much of yourself into it or whatever you will. The point is, it happens. It happened to me once! Granted, I was, like, thirteen or something, but still! So I kind of understand where they come from. I think it's absurd, but I understand.
I'm gonna go stop butting in now.

You can call what you want, but it disaappointed a lot of people and that's a fact. Not only for investing too much of yourself in a game, but because, looking it from the outside, there are too much mistakes and the ending does not stand up because of that.  So everything starts going down...

[LiarasShield]

would it be safe to say that in this ending it would destroy the galaxy since it did destroy our earth?

[StillOverrated]

PsychoTabby wrote...
Really? So only asian companies are allowed to do asian things? Well in that case we need to go and beat down Quentin Terentino for Kill Bill because that was oozing with asian styling.
That thought is just so full of holes and ignorance it's not even funny.

I think it's more that this type of writing doesn't fit with the type of writing they used for two and seven-eights of the games. I could be wrong, but this is just me. 
While I don't think anything that could be used as a storytelling device should be limited to one culture exclusively, I do think that there should be some coherence with what you choose to tell a story. And I'm not sure NGE should be in Mass Effect.

[Jassu1979]

garytwine wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

The shockwave nearly tore the Normandy apart while the ship was racing away at FTL-speed. That alone should tell you something about the force of these explosions.

The way the exploding mass relays are portrayed is very much the same as the one we saw in "The Arrival" - and that one firmly established such an event as akin to a supernova explosion.

One thing occurred to me. Even though EDI has a body now her 'Blue Box' and AI core are still part of the Normandy. In fact, she's basically multi-tasking her body and the Normandy at the same time. It's possible the energy wave was damaging the Normandy because it is the only Non-Geth ship in the Armada that has an AI running it (they are banned remember - every other ship has a VI which isn't synthetic life, just software).

How exactly does an energy wave differentiate between targets, and/or detect the presence of artificial intelligence?
And how would Joker know what the energy wave was to begin with?
And how did he manage to escape from the Sol system ahead of the pulse anyway, unless he abandoned the battle and ran.
And how did your crew mates from the ground team end up on the Normandy virtually unharmed, if you were still on the battlefield, badly wounded?

Now, mind you, some of these questions *might* be answered by the DLC, though I'm not so sure the answers will be very convincing. I do not know *why* Bioware messed things up so badly in the last five minutes, but the heart of the matter is that this short passage is riddled with plot holes and unresolved questions.

[epicalus]

babachewie wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

you have a decent point with earth but what if the energy was only ment to not hurt earth who is to say it still doesn't hurt the other planets or relays since it looked like they were all being destroyed

Its safe to assume that when the energy from the crucible hits the mass Relays, its changes the Mass Effect fields inside the Relays to whatever type of color you chose. Look at the energy pulse release from the crucible before it hits Earth, then look at it when its released from the mass relays. It looks exactly the same. The Mass Relays are the most powerful Mass Effect fields in the universe and the only way for the energy to be spread to each system

okay yea i'm gonna do this .
your kinda changing things to fit with what you believe .
i'm not saying your wrong . i just disagree .
its like (something happened) and now nucliar explosions won't destroy everything .
personally i think , they should have just stuck with war assets as the desiding factor .
and dump the whole crusible
as in get a low score , everything died . 
get a good score and you win.
get an average score and .... (blank)

Modifié par epicalus, 09 avril 2012 - 08:29 .

[babachewie]

LiarasShield wrote...

would it be safe to say that in this ending it would destroy the galaxy since it did destroy our earth?

 

Probably. There are plently of dormant relays though in systems where life is still in its infancy that probably werent affected. So if you think of it those terms. You still saved the galaxy. Just gonna take a lot longer ot get back on its feet.

[babachewie]

epicalus wrote...

babachewie wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

you have a decent point with earth but what if the energy was only ment to not hurt earth who is to say it still doesn't hurt the other planets or relays since it looked like they were all being destroyed

Its safe to assume that when the energy from the crucible hits the mass Relays, its changes the Mass Effect fields inside the Relays to whatever type of color you chose. Look at the energy pulse release from the crucible before it hits Earth, then look at it when its released from the mass relays. It looks exactly the same. The Mass Relays are the most powerful Mass Effect fields in the universe and the only way for the energy to be spread to each system

okay yea i'm gonna do this .
your kinda changing things to fit with what you believe .
i'm not saying your wrong . i just disagree .
its like (something happened) and now nucliar explosions won't destroy everything .
personally i think , they should have just stuck with war assets as the desiding factor .
and dump the whole crusible
as in get a low score , everything died . 
get a good score and you win.
get an average score and .... (blank)

Well isnt that what pretty much everyone else is doing? Mine just makes more sense. The evidence is right there is you pay really close attention. Maybe read the codex to would help. 

Modifié par babachewie, 09 avril 2012 - 08:34 .

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

Jassu1979 wrote...

garytwine wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

The shockwave nearly tore the Normandy apart while the ship was racing away at FTL-speed. That alone should tell you something about the force of these explosions.

The way the exploding mass relays are portrayed is very much the same as the one we saw in "The Arrival" - and that one firmly established such an event as akin to a supernova explosion.

One thing occurred to me. Even though EDI has a body now her 'Blue Box' and AI core are still part of the Normandy. In fact, she's basically multi-tasking her body and the Normandy at the same time. It's possible the energy wave was damaging the Normandy because it is the only Non-Geth ship in the Armada that has an AI running it (they are banned remember - every other ship has a VI which isn't synthetic life, just software).

How exactly does an energy wave differentiate between targets, and/or detect the presence of artificial intelligence?
And how would Joker know what the energy wave was to begin with?
And how did he manage to escape from the Sol system ahead of the pulse anyway, unless he abandoned the battle and ran.
And how did your crew mates from the ground team end up on the Normandy virtually unharmed, if you were still on the battlefield, badly wounded?

Now, mind you, some of these questions *might* be answered by the DLC, though I'm not so sure the answers will be very convincing. I do not know *why* Bioware messed things up so badly in the last five minutes, but the heart of the matter is that this short passage is riddled with plot holes and unresolved questions.

These are the key questions!

Modifié par LittleBlueChildrenNow, 09 avril 2012 - 08:37 .

[Jassu1979]

From an article on the IT, commenting on Shepard's behaviour in the ending:

"Oh, HAI there, creepy child from my nightmares! I instantly believe everything you say, because I find the word of a genocidal monster that preys on my subconscious implicitly trustworthy! I'll just shuffle toward my doom, now."

[xaurabh123]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

garytwine wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

The shockwave nearly tore the Normandy apart while the ship was racing away at FTL-speed. That alone should tell you something about the force of these explosions.

The way the exploding mass relays are portrayed is very much the same as the one we saw in "The Arrival" - and that one firmly established such an event as akin to a supernova explosion.

One thing occurred to me. Even though EDI has a body now her 'Blue Box' and AI core are still part of the Normandy. In fact, she's basically multi-tasking her body and the Normandy at the same time. It's possible the energy wave was damaging the Normandy because it is the only Non-Geth ship in the Armada that has an AI running it (they are banned remember - every other ship has a VI which isn't synthetic life, just software).

How exactly does an energy wave differentiate between targets, and/or detect the presence of artificial intelligence?
And how would Joker know what the energy wave was to begin with?
And how did he manage to escape from the Sol system ahead of the pulse anyway, unless he abandoned the battle and ran.
And how did your crew mates from the ground team end up on the Normandy virtually unharmed, if you were still on the battlefield, badly wounded?

Now, mind you, some of these questions *might* be answered by the DLC, though I'm not so sure the answers will be very convincing. I do not know *why* Bioware messed things up so badly in the last five minutes, but the heart of the matter is that this short passage is riddled with plot holes and unresolved questions.

That are the key questions!

The ending is messed. How are they gonna "explain" it man, i cannot "comprehend". Now they are beyond my "comprehension"

[LiarasShield]

if the relays go super nova like in this ending and destroy the earth and the galaxy why would it automaticlly change cause of different colors and more importantly when you shoot at a machine wouldn't it turn off instead of turn on and why in hells name is shepard walking towards it as it explodes more to point it still wouldn;t make too much sense that if it destroys our earth and the galaxy why would it be drasticlly different in the other endings besides different colors and still makes no sense why ems it what decides if things end well or not

[Caprea]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

StillOverrated wrote...
Butting in nao:
I'm guessing people sometimes get so invested in story and , particularly, the characters that if there's something extremely wrong with the story (namely the ME3 ending) or if the characters are somehow put on a bus, they'll just refuse to touch it ever again because all they feel when they do it is that rage and confusion they felt when they reached the part where it all went downhill. Call it emotional immaturity or investing too much of yourself into it or whatever you will. The point is, it happens. It happened to me once! Granted, I was, like, thirteen or something, but still! So I kind of understand where they come from. I think it's absurd, but I understand.
I'm gonna go stop butting in now.

You can call what you want, but it disaappointed a lot of people and that's a fact. Not only for investing too much of yourself in a game, but because, looking it from the outside, there are too much mistakes and the ending does not stand up because of that.  So everything starts going down...

Don't get me wrong, of course I understand where you guys are coming from. To be frank, I felt like that as well. Not for a short time, just for like, one day after having finished the game, but there was some sort of emptiness, apart from the feeling that I'd never want to touch that piece of garbage again. I don't even think it originates from "emotional immaturity" (heck, I'm 20 and I'd actually consider myself mature), just, as you said, the fact that you've spent a huge amount of your leisure time with the trilogy and invested a great deal of emotion as well, just to see it was "for nothing". You feel like you wasted it all.
Taking this from a more sober point of view, though, I'm pretty sure, it's a phase of emotional letdown that won't last all that long. You'll get over it eventually. As do we all.

[LiarasShield]

[LiarasShield]

from the explosion

[Thanatos144]

Blazerer wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

@Theronyll Itholien You keep wanting to dictate what the reapers are for when quite clearly through the entire series they have stated their purpose was to cull organic life. They are single purpose machines who never deviate from that purpose. The catalyst a device only activate after you connect the crucible to the citadel is the reasoning part of the program. It is the new code. The upgrade if you will. At this point the need for the reapers is moot cause we have advanced beyond the point of our destruction through stupidity like every cycle before us.

'the need for the reapers is moot' Geth are the synthetics of our cycle, however it can be proven (should you make the proper actions) that the geth and quarians can live in perfect harmony. The geth also have chosen time and time again to not use the Quarian homeworld for resources, not pursue and eridicate fleeing Quarian forces etc. etc. So there is NO justification for any actions the reapers make.

and 'we are synthetics that destroy you so you won't be destroyed by synthetics' is as stupid as it sounds

Thus the reason why the reapers are moot.

you failed to get the point I was making, what sense does the ending make if it has been proven that the reapers are useless. They don't have to be destroyed, melted together or controlled as it has been proven they are useless. thus rendering the entire ending useless. nott o mention that both the logic they used as the 'starchild' are fundementally flawed concepts

So you think you can just leave the reapers hanging around??????? I mean they are a single purpose machines that kill and thats all they do. Do you think it is a good idea to just leave them active ?

if the catalyst really DOES control them, then proving to him that his logic is flawed should evade the entire need to blow up every mass relay, thus dooming the entire galaxy for atleast another cycle.

Again you are failing to take in machine logic. The relay have out
lived their purpose to them. They were traps since now they no longer
need to trap the organic life they destroy them.  You wish for them not
to is immaterial .

the relays and citadel were made to ensure 'you developed along the paths we desire'( - Sovereign) The only reason for this would be that organics would learn space travel before they got the living hell kicked out of them by synthetics. something that would have been required way earlier without mass relay technology. both for tasks on the homeplanet as for off-world mining installations.

Secondly, for machines 'cleaning up behind oneself' is illogical. The relays have outlived their purpose for themselves, yes but only once they returned to darkspace. Even then destroying the relays would only damage the remaining species. even with their broken logic, damaging space-faring species once proven they could live with synthetics would only damage the potential for peace

I thought maybe it was cause you just didnt understand but you have shown that you just dont wish to. You dont like the ending and nothing is going to change that. I am guessing you best option is to find some other game to play cause this one isnt going to make you happy.

then enlighten me if you understand, where am I wrong?

I did several times.

[Changer the Elder]

LiarasShield wrote...

Yes, children, that happens when you don't pay attention to the user manual while building the Crucible =D

[Jassu1979]

By the way, did *any* of you notice that any choice but synthesis not only omits the scene that shows Shepard alive and breathing, but also mirrors the "solutions" embraced by the indoctrinated villains who ended up shooting themselves in the head?

Just listen to Saren:

"I’m not doing this for myself. Don’t you see, Sovreign will succeed. It is inevitable. My way is the only way any of us will survive. I’m forging an alliance between us and the Reapers, between organics and machines, and in doing so, I will save more lives than have ever existed. But you would undo my work. You would doom our entire civilization to complete annihilation, and for that, you must die."

Likewise, the Illusive Man argues for the option of controlling the Reapers - which, curiously enough, is presented to you as the paragon choice right after you spent the rest of the game arguing AGAINST it.

And while the options are being presented to you, you see IM taking the "control" route and Anderson (of all people) taking the "renegade"-path of destruction.

Maybe, just maybe, the Indoctrination theory is true after all.

[Thanatos144]

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

@Theronyll Itholien You keep wanting to dictate what the reapers are for when quite clearly through the entire series they have stated their purpose was to cull organic life. They are single purpose machines who never deviate from that purpose. The catalyst a device only activate after you connect the crucible to the citadel is the reasoning part of the program. It is the new code. The upgrade if you will. At this point the need for the reapers is moot cause we have advanced beyond the point of our destruction through stupidity like every cycle before us.

You disappoint me with the random conjecture you spew, Thanatos.

You state they are single purpose machines who basically can't even count properly because all they can do is what they are made for. This, however, has 2 obvious flaws in its "logic".

1. Geth, too, we made for one purpose alone and so was EDI. The one most evident and obvious fact we have learned trhoughout the series is that AI "evolves" itself, if you will, which is why the catalyst drew the evidently wrong conclusion that "the created will alwas rebel against their creators". If you want to claim with your rampant conjecture that the Reapers are no form of AI, but something else entirely, then why does destroying them also means destroying all other AI "lifeforms"/synthetics? The godchild is wrong in many, many ways.

You say the crucible is the reasoning upgrade to the catalyst. Many intelligent people have already come to the logical conclusion that there is not much of an "upgrade" to speak of, let alone something that can properly reason.

As you can see, there is allot of cotradiction and inconsitencies with the last-minute introduction of the deus-ex machina and its dialogue. Can you atleast agree to that, or will we forever go in circles?

2. Because they were made for a single purpose, it means they should stick to it? The Geth were made for a single purpose too. I'm sure you know where I'm going.

I say they are made for a single purpose because the reapers themselves have
said it. Several times. They come they kill they leave....They don't
even know how they came to existence. They are not like the geth. Or
EDI.

[Caprea]

Changer the Elder wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...
(...)
The problem I have with that AI is just: Where did it come from? What is it doing there? None of that was explained, so the player was left alone with that issue. So to me, it's just an unnecessary loose end that should not have been there.

I suppose it's a matter of personal taste on this one. For myself, I like actually being left only speculating. When I try imagining being given an exact specific what the Catalyst is, where it came from, who built it, I always run into part of me disagreeing (surprisingly violently) that it would feel just like another of those clarification speeches/informations villains in movies usually give to make sure everyone in the audience gets it. Also, it makes sense something that was probably created maybe even a few billion years ago, should have its origins lost in time.

Yes, I understand. I think it makes things more interesting sometimes, being left "fumbling in the dark". It's kind of "transcendental" thinking (does this word even exist?). You don't have to know each- and everything about it. 
On the other hand, when a character is as crucial as this, I think it's also understandable that people want to know where you stant with him. You want it all to make sense (rationally), so answers to some basic questions are necessary for understanding.

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

dea_ex_machina wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

StillOverrated wrote...
Butting in nao:
I'm guessing people sometimes get so invested in story and , particularly, the characters that if there's something extremely wrong with the story (namely the ME3 ending) or if the characters are somehow put on a bus, they'll just refuse to touch it ever again because all they feel when they do it is that rage and confusion they felt when they reached the part where it all went downhill. Call it emotional immaturity or investing too much of yourself into it or whatever you will. The point is, it happens. It happened to me once! Granted, I was, like, thirteen or something, but still! So I kind of understand where they come from. I think it's absurd, but I understand.
I'm gonna go stop butting in now.

You can call what you want, but it disaappointed a lot of people and that's a fact. Not only for investing too much of yourself in a game, but because, looking it from the outside, there are too much mistakes and the ending does not stand up because of that.  So everything starts going down...

Don't get me wrong, of course I understand where you guys are coming from. To be frank, I felt like that as well. Not for a short time, just for like, one day after having finished the game, but there was some sort of emptiness, apart from the feeling that I'd never want to touch that piece of garbage again. I don't even think it originates from "emotional immaturity" (heck, I'm 20 and I'd actually consider myself mature), just, as you said, the fact that you've spent a huge amount of your leisure time with the trilogy and invested a great deal of emotion as well, just to see it was "for nothing". You feel like you wasted it all.
Taking this from a more sober point of view, though, I'm pretty sure, it's a phase of emotional letdown that won't last all that long. You'll get over it eventually. As do we all.

Of course I will get over it. Everybody will do, but not thanks to BioWare or EA or because they fix the ending with that DLC. Just because, I have more important things to worry about and I will feel compelled to forget this.

But the only thing I'm going to remember when ME comes up to my mind in the future is: Yeah! ME was an amazing game, but the ending was awful" And maybe not even that, because, taking into account I am not able to play ME again (because I cannot get rid of that fu**** ending) maybe the only think I will remember is: Yeah! ME! The ending was ****! 

Memory has their pros and cons, but  usually what stays in your mind are the bad things and bad memories. ME has its own bad memory, which is the ending.

[Changer the Elder]

dea_ex_machina wrote...

Yes, I understand. I think it makes things more interesting sometimes, being left "fumbling in the dark". It's kind of "transcendental" thinking (does this word even exist?). You don't have to know each- and everything about it. 
On the other hand, when a character is as crucial as this, I think it's also understandable that people want to know where you stant with him. You want it all to make sense (rationally), so answers to some basic questions are necessary for understanding.

I think it comes as a part of the whole package. When taken apart, most people would presumably come over (or wouldn't even mind) having to fill in some parts for themselves - origin of the Catalyst, how does the battle for Earth look like with different war assets in play, what happens to your squadmates & the Normandy crew, what happens to quarians, geth, krogan...
But being left out in the dark on ALL the topics does indeed seem one blank canvas too many. To quote my favorite Scottish engineer, "I'm done. Any more of this and me head's gonna explode!" Hopefully, that's what the Extended cut might very well set right.