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[garytwine]

Jassu1979 wrote...

garytwine wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

The shockwave nearly tore the Normandy apart while the ship was racing away at FTL-speed. That alone should tell you something about the force of these explosions.

The way the exploding mass relays are portrayed is very much the same as the one we saw in "The Arrival" - and that one firmly established such an event as akin to a supernova explosion.

One thing occurred to me. Even though EDI has a body now her 'Blue Box' and AI core are still part of the Normandy. In fact, she's basically multi-tasking her body and the Normandy at the same time. It's possible the energy wave was damaging the Normandy because it is the only Non-Geth ship in the Armada that has an AI running it (they are banned remember - every other ship has a VI which isn't synthetic life, just software).

How exactly does an energy wave differentiate between targets, and/or detect the presence of artificial intelligence?
And how would Joker know what the energy wave was to begin with?
And how did he manage to escape from the Sol system ahead of the pulse anyway, unless he abandoned the battle and ran.
And how did your crew mates from the ground team end up on the Normandy virtually unharmed, if you were still on the battlefield, badly wounded?

Now, mind you, some of these questions *might* be answered by the DLC, though I'm not so sure the answers will be very convincing. I do not know *why* Bioware messed things up so badly in the last five minutes, but the heart of the matter is that this short passage is riddled with plot holes and unresolved questions.

Lol, don't get me wrong. I think the ending sucks in its current state and in now way is my comment supposed to account for all of the plot holes involved. The ending feels like the a trailer for the ending. I don't like the way ME3 ends.

However, looking at the Normandy specifically and logically, AI's, according to Mass Effect Lore, need a Blue Box. The equivalent of a brain (Isaac Asimov  wrote about 'Positronic Brain's'). Either way, they would have to have very complex and specific tech going on to create sentience (maybe even a mixture of electronic and chemical processes). This would be way beyond the hardware and software components needed to create and control spacecraft.

Heck, you can knock someone out or even do them harm with the right sound wave frequency/ampitude, radiation wave and I'm sure a tonne of other types of wave energy. And just because something effects a living system doesn't mean it would have the same effect on a specific electrical one (or vice versa).

If the Godchild AI (*sigh* lame) created the Reapers and they in-turn created the Mass Relays and Citadel, so they could control the direction that life and technology took (as other races retro-engineered what they thought was Prothean tech), then who knows what sort of crap they built into their tech which would allow the Mass Relays to release varying forms of energy for various purposes.

The damage done to the Normandy itself? If its AI is damaged, overloaded/destroyed, its possible that key systems are overloaded/shorted out by some sort of resulting energy cascade (I've obviously watched way too much Star Trek).

Just a thought though. The writers might have just written "Godchild waves his space magic wand and I'm just overthinking it 

[Caprea]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...
<Snip>

But the only thing I'm going to remember when ME comes up to my mind in the future is: Yeah! ME was an amazing game, but the ending was awful" And maybe not even that, because, taking into account I am not able to play ME again (because I cannot get rid of that fu**** ending) maybe the only think I will remember is: Yeah! ME! The ending was ****! 

Memory has their pros and cons, but  usually what stays in your mind are the bad things and bad memories. ME has its own bad memory, which is the ending.

And that's exactly what's so very sad about this way of thinking (not that I don't think it's understandable, just sad): Zeroing in on the bad aspects, which of course rather remain in your memory than the good ones; but then, I'd just have to actively remind myself what I love(d) about the game and the series. Which isn't so hard, in fact. Call me overoptimistic.

[Changer the Elder]

... I'm not sure how, but THAT somehow creeped the hell out of me o.o

[Nykara]

Ending DLC what I would like to see!

Firstly I am fine with the ending being kept the 'same' with more clarification - some of the very important plot holes filled in - like why did Joker fly off? Did Edi and the Geth really die? Things like that are important!

I want Shepard to be able to be reunited with her crew and LI.
An explanation / shown how they are going to travel after the mass relay's are destroyed.
An explanation as to why the relay's didn't destroy all the life in the universe like the first blown up relay destroyed an entire system.
Super High EMS should allow Shepard to be able to survive any of the endings.
The 'best' ending should be possible without MP. Currently the math has been done and this is NOT possible.
I would like more fight added to the end.
I would like to be sure Anderson was just passed out and not dead.
I would like further conversation ( with options ) post ending with all my crew
I would like some further actual game play. The battles on Earth really should have been far more epic then they seemed to be!
I would like to finally meet Shepards mum! Maybe for Kaidan to meet her too.

I don't really care why the Reapers are doing what they are doing, they are an ancient race they do not need to be explained to me. I am happy for them to remain a mystery and still understand we are fighting for survival alone. What is important to me is Shepard and her crew/family.

Modifié par Nykara, 09 avril 2012 - 09:23 .

[Caprea]

Changer the Elder wrote...

... I'm not sure how, but THAT somehow creeped the hell out of me o.o

Really? It made me laugh myself to tears.

[StillOverrated]

Paulomedi wrote...

LOL

Mars: 80 Jacobs
Palaven: 70 Jacobs
Tuchanka: 100 Jacobs
Rannoch: 75 Jacobs
Thessia: 60 Jacobs
Earth: 10 Jacobs
Ending: Jacob's poop.

...Why do I find this hilarious?

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

dea_ex_machina wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...
<Snip>

But the only thing I'm going to remember when ME comes up to my mind in the future is: Yeah! ME was an amazing game, but the ending was awful" And maybe not even that, because, taking into account I am not able to play ME again (because I cannot get rid of that fu**** ending) maybe the only think I will remember is: Yeah! ME! The ending was ****! 

Memory has their pros and cons, but  usually what stays in your mind are the bad things and bad memories. ME has its own bad memory, which is the ending.

And that's exactly what's so very sad about this way of thinking (not that I don't think it's understandable, just sad): Zeroing in on the bad aspects, which of course rather remain in your memory than the good ones; but then, I'd just have to actively remind myself what I love(d) about the game and the series. Which isn't so hard, in fact. Call me overoptimistic.

What do I owe to BioWare or EA to strive myself to remember that their product  WAS good? It's sad, but this is it. I'm a dissatisfied customer, like many others.

[Caprea]

Changer the Elder wrote...

I think it comes as a part of the whole package. When taken apart, most people would presumably come over (or wouldn't even mind) having to fill in some parts for themselves - origin of the Catalyst, how does the battle for Earth look like with different war assets in play, what happens to your squadmates & the Normandy crew, what happens to quarians, geth, krogan...
But being left out in the dark on ALL the topics does indeed seem one blank canvas too many. To quote my favorite Scottish engineer, "I'm done. Any more of this and me head's gonna explode!" Hopefully, that's what the Extended cut might very well set right.

Yes, at first, I wasn't even questioning the existence of the Catalyst, what the heck it was actually doing there or even Shepard's reaction (or lack thereof) to its bold thesis. I just watched the ending with a mix between emotion, sadness and wtf. It was later when I spent the whole night awake, racking my brain about the ending, when it actually occurded to me: "Hey, as sad as the music was, weren't there massive plotholes in the ending? Lots of them, in fact?"
I do not like the concept of the ending, but since I can live with it, considering all the plot holes are filled and we get more distinction between the different kinds of endings (which also take our previous choices into account), I sure hope that BioWare's gonna fix it the best they can. We'll have to wait and see how it turns out in summer and till then, I'll just lean back and reserve judgement.
Though another failure would be equal with shooting themselves in the foot once again, but we've covered that more than enough.

[Blazerer]

dea_ex_machina wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...
<Snip>

But the only thing I'm going to remember when ME comes up to my mind in the future is: Yeah! ME was an amazing game, but the ending was awful" And maybe not even that, because, taking into account I am not able to play ME again (because I cannot get rid of that fu**** ending) maybe the only think I will remember is: Yeah! ME! The ending was ****! 

Memory has their pros and cons, but  usually what stays in your mind are the bad things and bad memories. ME has its own bad memory, which is the ending.

And that's exactly what's so very sad about this way of thinking (not that I don't think it's understandable, just sad): Zeroing in on the bad aspects, which of course rather remain in your memory than the good ones; but then, I'd just have to actively remind myself what I love(d) about the game and the series. Which isn't so hard, in fact. Call me overoptimistic.

problem is, I still love the games...however I will never replay them, due to the ending of 3 there is no reason to. and that is why ME3 ruined Mass Effect as a whole

[StillOverrated]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

What do I owe to BioWare or EA to strive myself to remember that their product  WAS good? It's sad, but this is it. I'm a dissatisfied customer, like many others.

It saves you a couple of ulcers for one. While I don't think you owe BioWare anything, that doesn't change the fact that, if you ignore that disappointing, underwhelming ending (Yes. Ending. As in "there is only one"), the games are still enjoyable and constantly reminding yourself that the game end is bad is like reminding yourself of that one bad fight you had with someone you love and ignoring all the happy. Again, you don't owe BW anything and refusing to play is your choice.
If you refuse to play as symbolically refusing to give your support to them, that's great, but dwelling exclusively on the fact that the ending is underwhelmingly bad is gonna end up giving you an aneurysm or an ulcer or something.

[Holger1405]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

Changer the Elder wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...
And for those who keep saying they like the ending... I'm only going to repeat this: the more you played ME, the more you hate the ending.

I'm not sure I'm willing to count that as an argument, since it crosses a bit too uncomfortably into the "real-fans-hate-the-ending" territory for my tastes. But I personally have played ME1 twice, ME2 once + favorite missions again, ME3 twice and a half. I've read Evolution and Redemption. I've seen hours (literally) of gamecontent on youtube from playthroughs I've been locked out of by my choices.

And yet, I still like the Catalyst concept.

So, if I may ask, how many playthroughs and background lore is enough for "the more you played"?

I'm not discussing who played ME more, but in many cases, a lot of people comenting in Youtube, forums, etc when I read their comments explaining why they like the ending it just like... "Ok... Do you really played the same game as me?"

I Played Mass Effect 124 Hours, Mass Effect 2 614 Hours, and ME3 until now 60 Hours...

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

BTW, I have no problem with the Catalyst. My first problem is that I loved ME a lot, and now the only thing I want is to forget about it. Why? Because I have no desire of playing the 3 games again, because no matter what choices I make or how much I become involved with the story, the ending is still the same.  So yes, the 3 games are really good but with that ending,  the essence of the games is lost.

First,  I was impressed with the ending. The Catalyst, the Citadel, TIM. It was like WOW! But then it came that "thing": the Normandy leaving Earth. Really? Do you think I'm going to believe that the same people who swear to be with me til the end is just leaving me behind? No.  I started another playthrough and I'm looking more in detail to the conversations and everything.... There is no way they leave Earth without fighting until death. No way.

I agree that the Normandy leaving Earth is a Plot hole, (hope they will fix it in the DLC) still the ending is different, based on your decisions. 

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...
In addition, when you think about the ending it seems like Bioware and EA runned out of time and came up with that ending in 2 days.

The ending does not do justice to the ME trilogy. It's poor writing, unless ****** is true, which in that case the ending is brilliant and amazing!

I don't think it is poor writing, poor delivering yes, but not poor writing.  

Modifié par Holger1405, 09 avril 2012 - 09:41 .

[Caprea]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...
And that's exactly what's so very sad about this way of thinking (not that I don't think it's understandable, just sad): Zeroing in on the bad aspects, which of course rather remain in your memory than the good ones; but then, I'd just have to actively remind myself what I love(d) about the game and the series. Which isn't so hard, in fact. Call me overoptimistic.

What do I owe to BioWare or EA to strive myself to remember that their product  WAS good? It's sad, but this is it. I'm a dissatisfied customer, like many others.

Huh? 
You don't owe them anything. When have I ever stated that you "owe" them anything by letting yourself enjoy a trilogy again that you've held so dearly up until the ending? You don't even owe it to yourself, so please refrain from putting words into my mouth. Thanks in advance.
It wasn't even about BioWare, EA or being their customer in the first place, but about your personal experience with Mass Effect. If you really want to refrain from having fun with the series just because you don't like the ending, well, that's your call to make and let me be blunt with you - I don't care.
Just because the ending sucked, doesn't undo the remaining two and 95% of the third game. To you, maybe. But objectively... no.

[sdinc009]

Changer the Elder wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...
(...)
The problem I have with that AI is just: Where did it come from? What is it doing there? None of that was explained, so the player was left alone with that issue. So to me, it's just an unnecessary loose end that should not have been there.

I suppose it's a matter of personal taste on this one. For myself, I like actually being left only speculating. When I try imagining being given an exact specific what the Catalyst is, where it came from, who built it, I always run into part of me disagreeing (surprisingly violently) that it would feel just like another of those clarification speeches/informations villains in movies usually give to make sure everyone in the audience gets it. Also, it makes sense something that was probably created maybe even a few billion years ago, should have its origins lost in time.

I've got to object to the Godchild being a matter of personal taste. Adding that character to the story is adding a deus ex machina plot device. This device is wildly regarded amongst the literary community as poor ,lazy writing, and cheapens the entire story by reducing the value of the whole narrative. Every action taken, every choice that is made, the entire dramatic work is left totally meaning less because you waved a magic wand and fixed every problem at the very end without giving any explanation as to why.

[Changer the Elder]

sdinc009 wrote...

I've got to object to the Godchild being a matter of personal taste. Adding that character to the story is adding a deus ex machina plot device. This device is wildly regarded amongst the literary community as poor ,lazy writing, and cheapens the entire story by reducing the value of the whole narrative.
(...)

I was actually referring to the questions regarding its origin, not Catalysts existence per se. That is a completely different matter I wouldn't like to delve into. But yes, even whether to see it as a deus ex machina is a matter of personal taste and opinion. If you've seen it coming in hints from the narrative, it's hardly a last-minute addition.

[jeweledleah]

@ Changer - I think the quote from this blog post I read today, may ring true to you. and this is where fundamental disconnect is coming from. personally, I always felt that Mass Effect series were far to grounded to suddenly jump into realm of esoteric speculation.

http://tishtoshtesh....exigo-ergo-sum/

It seems to me that there are two major schools of thought regarding story endings… for lack of a professional taxonomy, I’ll call them the Concretists and the Abstractists. They seem to roughly track with “Western vs. Eastern” or “Blue Collar vs. White Collar” or even “Nerdy vs. Artsy Fartsy”. All highly technical terms, by the way. There’s even a little of the Myers-Briggs flavor to some of the debate, along the Thinking-Feeling axis. (This overlaps a little with the Introvert/Extrovert axis, but it’s more about thought process, not social function.)

Concretists want the story to make sense and come to a logical conclusion. Even if the logic is strained, if it’s consistent with the world as presented, the whole experience is enhanced. This is perhaps embodied best in the morality tale mentality that runs deep in classical European fairy tales, or even Campbell’s “Hero’s Journey” monomyth theory that underlies so many fictional yarns.

Abstractists are more interested in the emotional investment and the potential to interpret a fuzzy ending. Craving involvement with the story, an Abstractist loves a “neverending story” because it can fulfill that desire to indulge in immersion and endlessly ponder the deeper meanings of a fantasy life. Interpretation and pontification are almost more important than the original story.

most if not all the people who are unhappy with the endings, fall into the camp of "concretists"

[Caprea]

Blazerer wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...

And that's exactly what's so very sad about this way of thinking (not that I don't think it's understandable, just sad): Zeroing in on the bad aspects, which of course rather remain in your memory than the good ones; but then, I'd just have to actively remind myself what I love(d) about the game and the series. Which isn't so hard, in fact. Call me overoptimistic.

problem is, I still love the games...however I will never replay them, due to the ending of 3 there is no reason to. and that is why ME3 ruined Mass Effect as a whole

Sorry, but that rings nonsensical to me: You still love Mass Effect (meaning the ending can't have ruined the entire series for you, otherwise you wouldn't like it any longer), but you still don't want to continue spending time with something that you actually like? Either you still like it and hence, play it, or you do not.
As I stated numerous times before, I also think the ending sucks, but imho, it's the journey that matters, even though you know what awaits you at the end of the road. I know my previous choices were rendered moot in the last fifteen minutes, but throughout the whole game, they did matter and that's what made the experience great for me. Not only ME3, but also the previous two games. So I'll play them all again, seeing them as they are: A great series, with a huge stain on it. That's unfortunate, but doesn't ruin the whole package. For me, anyway. A game as well as a whole series, are more than the sum of their parts.
But I guess you already know that - it's just hard to overcome that huge disappointment at first.

Modifié par dea_ex_machina, 09 avril 2012 - 09:59 .

[Holger1405]

epicalus wrote...

personally i think , they should have just stuck with war assets as the desiding factor .
and dump the whole crusible
as in get a low score , everything died . 
get a good score and you win.
get an average score and .... (blank)

Well, basically
they did, with the crucible as Plot element.  

Modifié par Holger1405, 09 avril 2012 - 10:01 .

[Changer the Elder]

@ jeweledleah
Interesting theory indeed. But even though I do not want to sound like an exceptional person (which I'm obviously not), I don't feel like being able to conform to only one side of the story. I actually seek logic and emotional investment pretty much equally, trying to find a perfect balance between the two. Because I firmly believe that having an end coming from exclusively one base would be... unnecessarilly shutting off to an interesting alternative.
I wouldn't say people liking the ending don't care about the logic or presumable lack thereof. We... well, at least I do see the logic in it. I wish I were able to master the words in a way that would allow me to properly describe why and how it feels right with the series and its lore, but I'm unfortunately short on that ability.

[jeweledleah]

Changer the Elder wrote...

@ jeweledleah
Interesting theory indeed. But even though I do not want to sound like an exceptional person (which I'm obviously not), I don't feel like being able to conform to only one side of the story. I actually seek logic and emotional investment pretty much equally, trying to find a perfect balance between the two. Because I firmly believe that having an end coming from exclusively one base would be... unnecessarilly shutting off to an interesting alternative.
I wouldn't say people liking the ending don't care about the logic or presumable lack thereof. We... well, at least I do see the logic in it. I wish I were able to master the words in a way that would allow me to properly describe why and how it feels right with the series and its lore, but I'm unfortunately short on that ability.

I doubt everyone fits into just one category squarely, and the author of the post says as much.

heck, for all my need for things to fit, my emotions are very much a huge part of the experience.  but we definitely tend to lean.  I suppose its possible to be both equaly, I woudln't presume to know where you stand better then you yourself...  but most people here, definitely lean one way or another.

the logic I see in the ending is well... it just doesn't match up with the rest of the story, at least the way I see it.  I can apreciate aspects of it, as a stand alone episode.  it just doesn't fit into the whole, IMO.

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

@Dea_ex_machine
I know you didn't say that I owe something to BW.

@Dea_ex_machine and @StillOverrated

And it isn't like I don't want to have fun! Of course i want. In fact I tried to start ME again, but I couldn't. The thing is that I no longer enjoy playing the games knowing the ending. I'm not enjoying them anymore because of that. It's sad and I really hate that feeling. I wish i could keep playing pretending nothing just happened, but I can't. I don't like FPS, I don't like going around fighting, I like the story and how your choices impact in that story. My choices no longer impact the ending, so why I should want to replay?
 In my opinion, if your purpose as a company is to entertain, and your customer is no longer having fun, you failed. That's why I am an unsatisfayed customer.
I'm going to bed, it's too late here .

[Changer the Elder]

@ LittleBlueChildren (and by extension, also everyone being pessimistic about the DLC/future of Mass Effect)
Back with ME 1, I'd never guess I'd be going to a geth for words of wisdom, but...

"Hope sustains organics during periods of difficulty. We... admire the concept."

Modifié par Changer the Elder, 09 avril 2012 - 10:18 .