23455 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

cause I want that krogan vanguard and asari justicar ^^

[Blazerer]

Changer the Elder wrote...

Actually, people quoting "Shepard walking towards the pipe despite having a ranged weapon" as one of the reasons why endings suck makes me think that they really have to nitpick everything just to justify their cause.

Accidentaly, in this case it's a bit of hoist-by-their-own-petard justification, since not only that it's an artistic hyperbole, there's a psychological reason for it, too, that has been documented on war, crises and crimes alike = when you have nowhere to run, your brain is so focused on at least finishing what you came to do (because it uses that determination as a bit of an escapist fantasy, to an extent) that the physical instinct to get up close and personal to "charge into a fight". Yes, reality is unrealistic, but in this case, art immitates life, using that exact model (which is not happening 100% every time, of course, it depends on the mentality of said person) as an artistic hyperbole for determination.

'nitpicking'

there is no way that a ray can excist that only targets Reapers and Geth. Just sentient AIs? must be programmed to respond to that signal then, however it is stataed that Shepard will also die.

ok so all synthetics then. Everyone with implants: you're ****ed. so Geth, Reapers, Quarians, and everyone else who happaned to have any implant whatsoever. But in that case it targets technology, which means it's an EMP pulse. The fleet hanging in space? yeah, dead. Everyone on a spaceship anywhere? dead. You live in a world that needs machines for anything from food, to water to the very environmental machines upholding an atmosphere? dead.

In short: destruction ending everyone dies.

Control ending. The only way for this to work is if the Reapers were pre-programmed to respond to a specific signal. However if there is a sentient godbaby on the citadel, why need one at all? he 'controls' the reapers doesn't he? that means the control option is useless to.

That leaves Synthesis. Long story short: it is in any known universe impossible for a beam that somehow extracts DNA from jumping into it, to change every living being into half machine, and every synthetic being into half organic. Mass has to be retained, only space magic can make people suddenly grow machine parts and machine suddenly grow intestines without dieing from sudden energy lose and canabilisation of own body mass/structure
That is without the effect that it is clear nonesense that DNA from 1 single human can alter the DNA of EVERY LIVING BEING IN THE GALAXY, not to mention somehow make all synthetics half organic without any defects or diseases.

summary: the ending is wrong, bad, badly written, poorly executed and broken overall

[AmstradHero]

Changer the Elder wrote...
Actually, people quoting "Shepard walking towards the pipe despite having a ranged weapon" as one of the reasons why endings suck makes me think that they really have to nitpick everything just to justify their cause. Even if it were nonsense (which it isn't), one moment worth of cinematic detail most people wouldn't even notice being quoted as a reason to hate the game, Bioware and their little dog too is... well, in my opinion, far from rational.

I'd agree that in isolation this would be a nitpick detail - but issues like this (and many significantly larger and more incomprehensible) mar the entire ending sequence.

Why does Harbinger fly off?
Why does command think everyone is dead when they're clearly not?
Why does Hackett attempt to contact Shepard when they think (s)he's dead?
How does the Illusive Man make Shepard shoot Anderson?
How does Anderson get ahead of Shepard?
How did Anderson take a separate route to the Control Panel when clearly none exists?
How did TIM magically appear in the room with the Control Panel?
Why does the gun have infinite ammo?
Why does the Space Child let Shepard ride up the Space Elevator when it could simply let him/her die at the control panel and have its current solution intact?
Why are there three devices in the Citadel that provide solutions that the Space Child had not foreseen until now?
Why does the Mass Relay explosion not kill everyone?
How does Shepard potentially survive re-entry back onto Earth?
Why is Joker running away from the battle?
HOW is Joker running away from the battle?
How did Shepard's squadmates (presumably killed along with "everyone else" by Harbinger's laser) end up on the Normandy?

Again, these are just some of the details of the ending.that don't make any sense whatsoever. I'd discuss how it doesn't fit thematically, but I don't have time right now, and that would be a very long and involved discussion.

[tschamp]

Quickly things I like:
Game play
Joker and EDI
Udina death

Bioware, if you are listening like you claim you are, MP has ruined this game. You took money away from what made Mass Effect great, the story and acting, to create a shoot shoot bang bang horde game. Was it really necessary for that MP to be part of ME 3? Was there a major out cry for a Horde MP from customers? Was there a major outcry for Horde MP to effect the Single Player game?

If you all would have taken the time and effort that you have put into Horde MP, the ending would have been 10 times better then this "Artistic Integrity" ending you all think is the Holy Grail of endings. If you need a DLC to explain your ending, it is a bad ending to begin with. You made so many mistakes since this all came up "Artistic Integrity" being top of that list. You are business. You claim to care about your fans think, prove it by actually listening to them say give us more endings. We will buy DLC with more endings. What is wrong with that? Keep your Clarity DLC and start listening to what the customers are saying.

[chazfu]

[quote]LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...


[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...
"Hope sustains organics during periods of difficulty. We... admire the concept."[/quote]
This! Of all the good and even great posts I've read here... this!
[/quote]
Hope... Yes. That's the only thing I have right know. Hope for the DLC to fix something..

[/quote]

Posted this in another thread already.

I have hope, if for no other reason than the fact I can imagine a
few slight changes to the existing ending that would make it much more
impacting and meaningful.

1. Restore the original conversation
with Anderson on the Crucible. I have no idea why that was cut. It is a
beautiful and moving moment.

2. Make the conversation with the
StarChild an actual conversation, instead of a condescending lecture
from the king of the d-bags. Or else make it obvious he is beginning to
suffer from indoctrination, because that is the only other reason I can
see for him to suddenly become a meek lamb accepting the SC's words as
gospel.

3. Replace the Normandy crash with a scene of Shepard's
squad/friends at his funeral or a battered and bruised Shepard at
Anderson's funeral.

I have loved the Mass Effect series since the
first time I stepped on the Normandy. BW didn't just create one iconic
character, they created an entire cast of them. I don't need a "happy"
or "perfect" ending, or even one with less "speculation". I just want an
ending that is fitting and respectful of all the amazing and emotional
moments that came before it. An ending that leaves me with a galaxy and
characters worth speculating about.

[Holger1405]

AmstradHero wrote...

Holger1405 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...
we get ambiguity, scientific impossibilities, inability to role play out Shepards when conversing with godchild, inability to bring up decisions you have made that contradict child's "logic", and the only "ending" where Shepard survives, requires multiplayer and genocide (that also doesn't make sence when you start thinking about". and for some reason Shepard loses all sence and walks towards exploding pipe, while shooting a long range weapon >_>

the Walk towards I consider artistic expression.  

It's artistic to knowingly and willingly commit suicide by walking towards an explosion? Please. Just because the protagonist dies doesn't make the ending artistic. Not unless you're taking the most shallow and cursory definition of artistic, which coincidentally is exactly what BioWare seem to have done with the ending by shoehorning the classic anc cliched "the galaxy is too big" and "AIs will always kill people" themes that have been explored time and time again in other science fiction, but were notably absent from the rest of Mass Effect. Copying common themes from other works in the genre does not make the ending artistic. It makes it derivative and stupid.

As has been said, the "technology" by which this all occurs is inconsistent with previously established lore. The ridiculous part (as I described earlier) is that the three options provided by the Space Child as "solutions" are all logically inconsistent with his description of the problem and the fact that Shepard has somehow proven that the solution doesn't work because the Space Child decided to give him a magical ride up on the Neo Space Elevator.
(a) Return to the state of the original problem, which is flawed
( Continue with the status quo, which is flawed
© Proceed to a new unknown state, which despite being completely incalculable, is somehow declared to be the new optimal solution. If the outcome is incalculable, then it is clearly not a new optimal solution.

The Space Child is either the creator of the Reapers (and hence must be superior to them in terms of intellect), or their entire collective consciousness, in which case it is just as intelligent as them if not more so. How something with that amount of intellect cannot realise the logical inconsistency of the "solutions" it offers Shepard is simply mind-boggling. Scratch that, it's just plain idiotic.

This is just one of countless examples of why the ending doesn't make sense. If you want to get into thematic and premise considerations, the ending begins to drop the ball even more, and becomes utterly disconnected with the entirety of the rest of the series, including the vast majority of Mass Effect 3.

We know this ending was a retcon from the originally planned ending. So retcon the retcon and get rid of the utter rubbish ending that is everything from Shepard getting hit with Harbinger's laser onwards.

I saw your Post already, on the other side, and I will answer it, but right now I need to attend to my real live.
So later on.

[jeweledleah]

[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...

[quote]Jassu1979 wrote...

A genuine compromise would keep all the previous options in the game while adding *further* options for those who are genuinely unhappy with door A,B, or C, or want their Shepard to defy or argue with the star child. That way, the "old enders" could keep theirs and the "new enders" would be able to choose a different path.[/quote]

That is correct. And who knows, they might even decide for that after all, despite their original claims about the DLC. Point is: who knows? Bioware deserves better than to get this kind of backlash based on speculations.

And another point is: I'm generally objecting to retconning the Catalyst. That is a standing point.

[/quote]
[/quote]

the thing is- if we don't push and just let them think clarification alone is ok, do you honestly think they will have insentive to change their minds?

and honestly as annoying as the Catalyst conversation is far more people will be happy if they add extra ending options on top of the ones we got (as well as show more assets in action - something that they have to make no changes for, just add cutscenes).  while rewrite would IMO be best, ADDING options to reflect more playstyles is a viable compromise.  what they are offering right now?  is NOT a compromice, its barely a platitude.

I will be optimistic if they say they are adding more options.  not before

[3DandBeyond]

The fact that there are bigger concerns in the world than a game is really beside the point. Most of us can multitask. I can care about victims of tsunamis, disease, and a host of other things and even try to do something about it. At the same time I can also care about my family, our troubles and joys, while still raising concerns about something I spent some hard-earned money and no small amount of time on. We may express things here that seem trivial, but entertainment is a huge part of what makes us able to deal with the things that hurt us and others. Without decent entertainment, we have no outlet for relief from what ails us. And, without it we also lose part of what makes us human. Why not fight for everything? I believe using our creativity, our imagination, and yes entertainment that either involves or moves or just plain takes us away from it all, helps us be able to handle the other things.

Just because something out there is more important in terms of people's lives, doesn't mean we give up on other things. You complain about a parking ticket, about being shortchanged in a store, about food at a drivethru. Doesn't mean you don't care about world peace.

As for something else here where some were saying they hope Mass Effect will be an MMO, well ugh. Mass Effect 3's multiplayer is fun to a point. But, where the Mass Effect series has been great has been in its story, not just sidequests, but the overall big picture goal.

[Darkphalanax]

Hey guys.. I don't know where to put this, but this is my posible best final for ME3.. My english sucks so forgive me for that. Hope you like it... The idea for an ending is based on my actions along the trilogy.

"Comander Shepard and Anderson watching the earth, Anderson dies, Hackett call out Shepard because the device isn't working, Shepard then faint and the platform where he/she is raised to the upper level when he/she meet the "catalyst". The dialog begins as we all know. The catalyst says this is the solution to all cycles and then... (STOP: This is the point where your actions along the trilogy will take MEANING).. Shepard, depending on his/her actions will have a chat with the catalyst. If he succeded in unite Quarians and Geth, and helped EDI to understand the meaning of live and get along with Joker, he can talk about that to the catalyst, explaining about how synthetics and organics now are learning to work together, and that point shepard will show a geth ship fighting along with a quarian ship to defeat a reaper, then the catalyst will say something about the upcoming war the organics will have if this cycle is not broken because organics are unpredictable.. Then shepard will explain about his actions on the genophage showing the catalyst that a Salarian sacrifices himself to save the Krogan (if you cure the genophage), the united krogan and Turians, and how they worked together with the other races to defeat the reaper forces showing to the catalyst, even this races has his differences, this experience will help them to understand and unite them each other. Finally the catalyst will ask shepard about that he/she believes the people of any races will not engage in any war in a future, shepard will say he/she is not sure, but that all organic life even the synthetic ones have the right to have a future, that is the meaning of live, we all have our mistakes but is up to us to repair them. Then the catalyst final word to shepard is that the future of the galaxy rest in the hands of the people of this cycle, and is up to the organics and synthetics to live along and make brighter future. Then the catalyst will give shepard a memento saying that his/her hope and actions is what changed the fate of the galaxy, as a token the relays will be untouched allowing the races maintain connection between them. Finally the cycle will "farewell" shepard and begin with the brighter explosion (select your color) making the citadel explode. But a few moments after the explode Joker will be there rescuing shepard and the love interest and the two most used squad mates will help shepard to board the Normady. Finally all the reapers retreat to the dark space (doing that, the humans or other races can't take the reaper technology) and the citadel explode. Few moment later, you see a black screen with white letters saying "months later", then you see commander shepard aboard the normandy with his crew patrolling the galaxy puting order as a spectre, and finally join with his/her LI staring at the stars, then a video shows up showing (depending on your actions) the krogan and turian working together showing Wrex leading his clans with Grunt, the quarians and geth getting along and helping each other to help Rannoch improves, the rachni helping other humans colonies around the galaxy to improve, the construction of a new citadel and all the races has his respective council and voice in the galaxy, and etc. Finally, in the end a voice of a old man telling those stories to his grandson about how the humanity, and all other races, had another chance to experiencie something that anyone had right to have it... Life."

[darkway1]

Keep in mind guy's that the RANT everyone has now will affect how Bioware/EA releases future titles,your voice has worth,it matters in the long run.

[AkaXan]

The ABC endings are so badly broken. Heres my reasons as to why they not only fail as part of the ME universe but as awful story telling/writing.

1) Well rounded Characters and their storys are what make Mass Effect great. Good characters that we feel for is why we care about saving the Mass Effect universe. With little or no sign at the end, that any of the great characters, love interests or team mates are genuinly safe, after getting to know them and sort out their issues, its no wonder players feel hard done by as it all seems a bit pointless when all 3 endings seem to embarce all life dying in some fashion.
Great characters also extends to the villians. The Reapers work best as an unknowable force, it made things more intense knowing that, something so bad was coming to destroy everything and there would be no reasoning with it. Then the God/Reaper child showed up with his stupid, I invented sythetics to kill all organic life, to prevent organics inventing synthetic life, which in turn will kill them. The god child killed the Reapers as villians and killed player interest.

2) Lore and logic, dont spend 3 games building up story and backgrond, with a solid logic that works within the series, only to break lore, logic and story when it suits. Its cheap, insulting to players who have taken the time to invest in this world and most importantly never works. The high standard of writing throughout the games with the Genophage cure mission being a true highlight only serves to further expose how badly lore, logic and story are treated at the end.

3) Player interaction/choise. When the god child/reaper leader is introduced it signals the death of player choise and interaction within the Mass Effect world. The player no longer has control over how things play out, regardless of the work the player put in. Whats worse is that it kills Shepard as a leading force for the Mass Effect series. Shepard is no longer the games guiding focus.
Instead Shepard (much like the player) is told by the god child that he will be allowed to chose one of 3 outcomes the god child sees fit to grant. The second this happens Shepard no longer holds any narrative importance, its not Sheps story anymore its the stupid Reaper/God child story as they are the only one with any control over what happens.

As someone that did everything in the ME games, the awful ABC endings destroy any reason to play those games again or buy into in new paid DLC as whatever happens the player is still railroaded into those endings.

The way I would fix things is to have the current endings stay (wait dont leave yet) but then if you stick to your guns and chose the destroy the reapers ending the game rolls the credits and the screen stays black for a moment. Then the vocie of a squadmate calls out Sheapard get the hell up, the battles not over. Again the voice tells Shep to get up.
The screen lights up, Shep takes a breath, his teammates are by his side in a holding postion.
Garrus hands Shep a weapon and says "the fights not done Shepard, but its close. We all finish this together or not at all". and this leads into the real final mission where if you put the player put the work in they can achive a small bit of tempory happiness for the group and bioware can still change things up by seeting the new games 200-300 years into the future were our shepards choices no longer matter.

Modifié par AkaXan, 10 avril 2012 - 03:01 .

[oyukichan]

^
You! This! I like this. And this is kind of what I've barely been able to hold out hope for. That those of us who chose Destroy will actually be able to finish the fight.

Modifié par AurinShepard, 10 avril 2012 - 03:13 .

[Darkphalanax]

AkaXan wrote...

The ABC endings are so badly broken. Heres my reasons as to why they not only fail as part of the ME universe but as awful story telling/writing.

1) Well rounded Characters and their storys are what make Mass Effect great. Good characters that we feel for is why we care about saving the Mass Effect universe. With little or no sign at the end, that any of the great characters, love interests or team mates are genuinly safe, after getting to know them and sort out their issues, its no wonder players feel hard done by as it all seems a bit pointless when all 3 endings seem to embarce all life dying in some fashion.
Great characters also extends to the villians. The Reapers work best as an unknowable force, it made things more intense knowing that, something so bad was coming to destroy everything and there would be no reasoning with it. Then the God/Reaper child showed up with his stupid, I invented sythetics to kill all organic life, to prevent organics inventing synthetic life, which in turn will kill them. The god child killed the Reapers as villians and killed player interest.

2) Lore and logic, dont spend 3 games building up story and backgrond, with a solid logic that works within the series, only to break lore, logic and story when it suits. Its cheap, insulting to players who have taken the time to invest in this world and most importantly never works. The high standard of writing throughout the games with the Genophage cure mission being a true highlight only serves to further expose how badly lore, logic and story are treated at the end.

3) Player interaction/choise. When the god child/reaper leader is introduced it signals the death of player choise and interaction within the Mass Effect world. The player no longer has control over how things play out, regardless of the work the player put in. Whats worse is that it kills Shepard as a leading force for the Mass Effect series. Shepard is no longer the games guiding focus.
Instead Shepard (much like the player) is told by the god child that he will be allowed to chose one of 3 outcomes the god child sees fit to grant. The second this happens Shepard no longer holds any narrative importance, its not Sheps story anymore its the stupid Reaper/God child story as they are the only one with any control over what happens.

As someone that did everything in the ME games, the awful ABC endings destroy any reason to play those games again or buy into in new paid DLC as whatever happens the player is still railroaded into those endings.

The way I would fix things is to have the current endings stay (wait dont leave yet) but then if you stick to your guns and chose the destroy the reapers ending the game rolls the credits and the screen stays black for a moment. Then the vocie of a squadmate calls out Sheapard get the hell up, the battles not over. Again the voice tells Shep to get up.
The screen lights up, Shep takes a breath, his teammates are by his side in a holding postion.
Garrus hands Shep a weapon and says "the fights not done Shepard, but its close. We all finish this together or not at all". and this leads into the real final mission where if you put the player put the work in they can achive a small bit of tempory happiness for the group and bioware can still change things up by seeting the new games 200-300 years into the future were our shepards choices no longer matter.

You're right! Also a final confrontation between you and harbinger, with the other friends helping you to destroy him. And he will be saying his lines on shepard as the battle advance.

My idea of a good ending was based on the final events on ME3, but a final battle with harbinger, bringing him down and a cutscene showing the reapers falling, that will be an epic ending. And the way you can destroy harbinger is with the crucible, you have to point a laser beam and Anderson will fire the energy beam from the citadel. I don't know, to many good options for an epic and awesome ending.. 

[dalethfc]

Derek Larke has proved that Bioware Are not Listening one bit.


http://social.biowar.../index/11028404

[Lyrebon]

dalethfc wrote...

Derek Larke has proved that Bioware Are not Listening one bit.


http://social.biowar.../index/11028404

BioWare strongly believes in the team's artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise.

There's that word again: "artistic." Eye roll. While I appreciate the effort Bioware have put into creating many fantastic games, the fact that they created a terrible ending and fail to communicate with their fans is egregious.

Are we going to change the ending of the game? No

Am I going to buy future Bioware games? No. I can't trust them anymore. Change the ending to ME3 and I might consider it.

[SayoriChan]

dalethfc wrote...

Derek Larke has proved that Bioware Are not Listening one bit.


http://social.biowar.../index/11028404

Oh my.... they haven't heard anything.
"We are listening" - NOT!
"No. BioWare strongly believes in the team's artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise"
 - strangely, the artistic vision differs from ME1 and ME2.

[Darkphalanax]

Last game I buy from Biotrollware..

With those endings, they killed the replay value of the game, and now this, about what posted Derek Larke..

[SayoriChan]

Lyrebon wrote...

Are we going to change the ending of the game? No

Am I going to buy future Bioware games? No. I can't trust them anymore. Change the ending to ME3 and I might consider it.

+1.
Dear Bioware. The parasite called EA has rotten you from the inside.

Modifié par SayoriChan, 10 avril 2012 - 03:37 .

[Hobbes]

l literally just finished the game a few minutes ago and...well the ending was not what I was hoping for. I spent the entire time making sure I made the right choices; I got my readiness up as high as I could and even did the multiplayer aspect to make sure everything was in place. Then it came down to three choices and none of what I did really mattered??

The galaxy is screwed with all the races military and ships stuck with Earth, I'm half dead stuck under some rubble god knows where and the rest of my crew is on some random planet? After 3 games, 3, you could have had choices that led to a better ending also with the survival of Shepard and not just added more variety than the changing of some lights. Also some closure would be nice, not just for the universe but personal closure for the characters; myself and the crew! This is the final game for this aspect of the story and its characters; it is not the time to be vague.


Moving on though...aside from the ending the game was fantastic and had some great moments so it is hard to choose just one.

Three come to mind though;


The moment with Tali and Legion, when Tali accepted him and he also realised his individuality.

The moment with Mordin when he goes to sacrifice himself to cure the genophage that was very moving and bought a tear to my eye...it was sad to him go out like that but it was a great moment.

Finally the moment where you walk in on Garrus and Tali, I literally burst out laughing when I saw them. I remember noticing that they were in the same room on the map and wondered what was going on haha and find them making out...or trying to…not sure how that would work with the mask and Garrus being Garrus.

Modifié par hobbes296, 10 avril 2012 - 03:47 .

[Ryuu62]

awesome game....until the ending.....but best moment that still stands out is pure gold between the Quarians and the Geth, and subsequently between Tali and Legion.

Next is definately the stuff with Mordin, followed by Thane, and hanging out with Garrus on the Presidium.

Awesome game overall but ya....boourns to the ending(s) dude

Modifié par Ryuu62, 10 avril 2012 - 03:51 .

[Hobbes]

Ryuu62 wrote...

...hanging out with Garrus on the Presidium....

 

Ahh I forgot that one, I absolutely loved that bit, it was so sweet and funny.

[clarkusdarkus]

they clearly didnt listen to the hundreds of pages of feedback regarding the ending as there still claiming art as there ending, this thread is as pointless as the starkid and the endings.

[Blackvista]

Bioware's in denial. Until they admit they have a problem, no meaningful steps can be taken to address the problems with the game. I also won't be able to buy from them in the future, because if they can't acknowledge their failings, they're likely to offend again.

[Blazerer]

Lyrebon wrote...
Am I going to buy future Bioware games? No. I can't trust them anymore. Change the ending to ME3 and I might consider it.

Darkphalanax wrote...

Last game I buy from Biotrollware..

With those endings, they killed the replay value of the game, and now this, about what posted Derek Larke..

you might be interest in 'Hold the wallet' there is a link in my signature as to what we do and who we are

[EugeneBi]

StillOverrated wrote...

EugeneBi wrote...

Fallout 3 ending never made any sense. Scientists and Enclave were fighting for what? Yes, they were fighting for the honor to push that awesome button! Really, I repeat: the goal of Enclave was to get to the button and push it. The goal of the scientists was exactly the same. WTF? Who cares who pushes the button?

This was even worse that Deus Ex ABC choice...

Actually, it mattered to them because the Enclave people saw themselves as the only people with rights to do and change anything in the land because they were the government and everyone else was a bunch of primitive communist SOBs who needed to be shot. The whole "who gets to push the button first" thing was figurative territorial pissing.
So, even if you don't care, or your character doesn't care, they care, even if only to maintain their status as the only people with real autority in the Capital Wasteland.

Sorry, it still does not make any sense to me. Enclave had the radio, so even if scientists pushed the button Enclave could take all the credits easily.

Anyway, I was not disappointed too much because storyline was never the selling point of Beth games. Beth is about exploring the open world. If they screwed something there I am sure they would get ****srom no smaller than we see now with BW.