Lyrebon wrote... I don't know about the Crucible getting damaged. Someone will have to test it out.
Someone already has. There you go, Reapers tearing the Sword a new one:
It is then mentioned further in game, I believe (Hackett radioing Shepard, even though I'm not sure on that one) that the Crucible got beaten pretty bad when you get that fleet battle.
Ah, thanks.
See, this is an example of how they could have dropped in more variety to the endings. The problem was it didn't actually change the ending significantly did it? You still have that poncy three colour choice to make.
"Us PS3 fans" have actually, from what I've noticed, quite an advantage from the game giving us war assets ME1 players had to fight for for free. Every decision that couldn't be made in the Genesis comic is automatically presumed to have been the "best outcome" one. Which is uncharacteristically generous for a game that usually takes on quite a long list of worst-case scenarios if you don't import a save.
and yesh I wanted those blue children hell I wish this was real life so I could be jane shepard and be with liara except get the good ending or a decent ending for not only the galaxy but for myself as well since all the **** you through from nearly dieing from rubble in the fight with soverign to dieing inspace when the collector homeworld teleports infront of the normandy and blasts it to kingdom come and then being brought back from dead in the lazarus project to destroying the collector base I think I deserve some damn peace for a change
See, this is an example of how they could have dropped in more variety to the endings. The problem was it didn't actually change the ending significantly did it? You still have that poncy three colour choice to make.
Yes, in the endings, it was unfortunate how blatantly obvious it showed Bioware running out of time. They showed just the things the endings and choices had in common and those that varied for each playthrough and each Shepard were omitted, "left for the player's imagination", but in the end, it proved to be leaving out way too much. I'm having high hopes towards the Extended cut in that regard, since it seems to be a remedy for exactly that.
but yes and what is even more annoying is WHY THE **** WOULD THE ILLUSIVE MAN SPEND FOUR BILLION OR MILLON DOLLARS TO BRING SHEPARD BACK TO LIFE THEN TO ONLY BACKSTAB OR BETRAY HIM OR HER IN THE THIRD GAMR NOW I CAN UNDERSTAND THIS IF THE ILLUSIVE MAN WAS GETTING INDOCTRINATED FROM BEGING TO END BUT IF TIM ONLY GOT INDOCTRINATED AT THE END THEN I CAN"T ACCEPT THAT BECAUSE WHY WASTE SO MUCH DAMN MONEY U_u
and during most of me2 Tim seemed to really respect shepard and what not how did that radically change in the final game despite one wanting to destroy while the other wanted to control....
This is from an article about the ending I just read:
"Stories must be full spectrum narratives, able to fit themselves to tellings as videogames, comics and graphic novels, traditional novels, feature film and television and Internet productions (live action or animated). And all these iterations of a core story will be subject to constant fan comment for revision and extension. This is the brave new world that Dickens would have embraced as liberating rather than destructive of his authorship, the tool of “reader” feedback having now become an instantaneous and continuous global information stream that will propel forward those who learn to navigate it, and drown those who fear a “loss of control” in uncharted waters."
I'm not sure how many of the people on the forums are familiar with the PS exclusive Final Fantasy Era (7-10), but today I had an epiphany about the problem with the starchild: he is Yu Yevon from FFX, but without what made Yu acceptable.
If you try to talk to someone about FFX and bring up Yu, you'll probably just get the reaction of: "Oh, right that tick. I HATE that tick." or "Oh, the stupid tick, I hate that thing." or "[unintelligible guttural sound which is likely a profanity' TICK!!!!!" or something along those lines. I haven't played FFX in a while, so I might have some of this a bit confused, but Mr. Tick basically created this unstoppable killing machine (Sin) which can only be temporally defeated to stop the world from doing something (I think using technology was involved). Mr. Tick was introduced as a character somewhere in the story, but his true role wasn't revealed until either the "final push" or right before the final push. Players spend the whole game thinking that you just had to beat Sin (and as I lovely bonus kill Yuna) only to discover that, no it's not Sin you're after, it's Mr. Tick. But this whole "secret final boss" thing was what the genre was at the time-you went into pretty much any 90's/early 2000's JRPG knowing that there was likely to be some thing you've never seen before standing between you and the end credits. Also, this occurred in the final BOSS fight. As obnoxious as Mr. Tick was, I still got to hit him with swords, Ultima, Meteo, Holy, Blitzballs, Bahamut, Anima, and all the other things I wasted far too long getting in sidequests. Yes, the tick was annoying-but I got to beat the snot out of him. I got to (well, had to as JRPGs are more based off a player-as-observer of story model as opposed to player-as-shaper of story model as Bioware marketed ME3 to be) tell him, "Screw you, Mr. Tick, I'm finishing this my way!" And Titus doesn't just DIE at the end of FFX, he never exists in FFX-so no, Bioware, it NOT that the ending is "sad" or "dark" that's the problem-the problem is that it's based on an old narrative model from a different genre and goes against all your promises in the marketing. Those are the problems, and those are the reasons that this "expansion" isn't making the fans just shut up and go away.
And before anyone gets the bright idea of telling me I'm just entitled-damn straight I'm entitled. Bioware made specific promises about the way ME3 would end that they have fundamentally failed to deliver on-a consumer is ENTITLED to rely on the promises of the maker when choosing whether to buy a product, there are whole bodies of law on the subject. Bioware entitled me to specific things when it promised them.
Modifié par FairfaxLessee, 10 avril 2012 - 07:11 .
I am tired of so called journalists dismissing our complaints about ME3 and the subsequent treatment of the fans as nothing but a "vocal minority."
In fact if anything we are a vocal majority. But that's not the point I'm trying to make here. Even if we were a "vocal minority" that is not a valid grounds for dismissing us. Nothing is. The role of journalists is to bring minorities and majorities onto an even keel by prioritising arguments based on their merit alone. Not on the person making them.
If anyone hasn't seen any of the videos posted by this man I suggest you watch them. They are extremely sensible and convincing He describes what is happening here far better than I do.
I want to clarify the seriousness of the situation in hand firstly by identifying what it is that we, the customers, were promised by Bioware but did not receive.
Mass Effect 3, is a work of design, and was produced and marketed as a design primarily, not as a work of art. I've already tried to explain the difference between art and design in detail, so I'll just try and condense it into two sentences. Designs have objective goals, this product does A, B, C and so on. Works of art have subjective goals, i.e. this artwork does not really do anything in particular, but for some reason I like it. That is the difference.
The Mass Effect franchise from the very get go has been the former. A work of design. When you buy a Mass Effect game, you know what it is you're getting. Or at least we thought we did. Becasue it had design goals:
I control a character in a sci fi universe and I get to choose what that character says and does, particulalry at key turning points in the story. I have a choice
It is sci fi, hence all main plot devices must be explained somehow using scientific jargon
I get a codex that plausibly explains most of the fictional technology that exists using some scientific arguments
I get a story that has a beginning middle and an end
I have guns, I have squadmates with different abilities
My relationships with characters built over ME1 and ME2 will be acknowledged and explored at the end of the game
Designs often have a level of artistic freedom but they never sacrifice the design goals over artistic expression. If we do that then the design falls apart - oh wait that's exactly what has happened here.
Bioware said they had fulfilled all of these design goals with Mass Effect 3, and that made you want to buy it. I certainly did. In fact before I finished the game I couldn't understand what everyone was going on about. I thought that a franchise that had adhered so closely to its original design goals couldn't possibly disappoint me. The problem is that we have all bought the game and have found that it does not fulfiull the design goals that Bioware said it would. The game is incomplete. It is obvious. Why then, did we pay for it?
We paid for it because we were convinced that Bioware would actually listen to us if there was a problem with the game, and that our feedback would be welcomed and acted upon appropriately. What we got instead was Ray Muzyka telling us that our feedback had been "incredibly painful." Is that what we are? Just a big headache to them? Now I'm getting a headache. Oh look, EVERYBODY IS LOSING.
It seems Bioware have chosen to ignore the complaints and requests of their customers that paid for an unfinished product. They have released a statement in writing, not in person, that ignores the fans and only further serves to satisfy the artistic ego of the writers. Not to satisfy the customers. That's funny, becasue your customers are your sole source of income. No customers, no, game, no one gets paid. Everyone loses.
Will you change the ending Bioware? It's what your customers want. We paid you money for it
"No. BioWare strongly believes in the team's artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned."
I respectfully request that you plan further ending DLC with different endings. You might not want to, but unfortunately I think you need to.
Tim just radically betraying shepard out of the blue jsut again makes no damn sense when he payed 4 billion credits just to bring you back to life just the way you were
I think they stopped listening. The main post in the non-spoiler forum says they will not be making any further endings. Just adding to the main three. So in other words the best you can do is either Shepard lives and kills the geth, or everyone except shepard lives. Totally contrary to the other games. No happy ending possible.
Sad to say i wont be buying any more games from Bioware. Wouldnt want to get attached to my character in Dragonage IV just to have him/her killed for "artistic vision".
I'll still wear my N7 hoodie i bought last year though. The first two games were awesome.
but yes and what is even more annoying is WHY THE **** WOULD THE ILLUSIVE MAN SPEND FOUR BILLION OR MILLON DOLLARS TO BRING SHEPARD BACK TO LIFE THEN TO ONLY BACKSTAB OR BETRAY HIM OR HER IN THE THIRD GAMR NOW I CAN UNDERSTAND THIS IF THE ILLUSIVE MAN WAS GETTING INDOCTRINATED FROM BEGING TO END BUT IF TIM ONLY GOT INDOCTRINATED AT THE END THEN I CAN"T ACCEPT THAT BECAUSE WHY WASTE SO MUCH DAMN MONEY U_u
Uh... Because he thought Shepard would see things his way in ME2 (which he/she can, depending on player action)? And the reason TIMmy was attacking Shep in ME3 is either because Shep told him to f-off or because LOL INDOCTRINATION. Or something.
I wish the ps3 people could've gotten me1 but the genesis comic was still ok but I loved me2 and I'm happy about buying arrival because I loved the convo my shepard had with harbinger how she told him that we may not win the war but we will die we will sacrifice and we will find a way because that is what humans do! ^^
The ending of ME3 reminded me a lot of the ending of BSG, but that's not a good thing. Actually, it's a very bad thing.
Others have summed up the problems with the ending quite well (i.e. massive plot holes, undermining of central conflict, loss of narrative cohesion, etc.) But for me, the biggest issue is that none of the three endings actually made any sense. Not only were they not distinct endings, they weren't even logical endings.
All three endings were slight variations of "everything gets destroyed, plus ___ illogical thing happens also." Take the "synthesis" ending for example: we are told that all synthetic and biological life combine. Huh? What does that even mean? Even if we understood what synthesis meant, why would it be a sensible outcome? Why would the God child propose this solution? Why should Shephard think this is a good idea? How does this ending fit logically, narratively, or thematically with what has happened in three-game triology we just spent 60+ hours on?
Remember, this is just criticizing the endings as they currently are. There is a whole extra level of criticism that can be leveled at Bioware for not factoring in more of the choices that we made along the way, for not focusing on the characters from the actual game, for not providing any kind of emotional closure or payoff etc. Even if we give Bioware a pass on all those oversights, the endings themselves are still nonsensical. I don't know how clarifying them further is going to help, aside from asking us to suspend our disbelief for an even longer period of disappointment and disillusionment.
The rest of the game was quite fantastically written, but with the ending, it seemed like the authors had less appreciation for their own material than the fans that were supporting them. Either that or they were drunk or high and didn't realize what they were doing. I would have preferred a Sopranos-style sudden fade to black than the current mess we're presented with.
I cannot agree more. Bioware, please listen to your fans
anywho after all shepard has went through he or she can't have a decent ending wether they lived or not I mean unless the relays get repaired and the love interest actually morns your passing or that if you do live in the extended good destroy ending that you can go look for crew and love interest then what was the point even if humanity does somehow magically come back together if the other races are destroyed or can never make it home what was the damn point other then to make us all sad and weep and not have decent damn sleep....
Can someone please point me in the direction of a single comment that implies Bioware is actually listening to a thing we're saying? And I mean actually listening, not just trying to quell the situation.
I am tired of so called journalists dismissing our complaints about ME3 and the subsequent treatment of the fans as nothing but a "vocal minority." In fact if anything we are a vocal majority. But that's not the point I'm trying to make here. Even if we were a "vocal minority" that is not a valid grounds for dismissing us. Nothing is. The role of journalists is to bring minorities and majorities onto an even keel by prioritising arguments based on their merit alone. Not on the person making them. If anyone hasn't seen any of the videos posted by this man I suggest you watch them. They are extremely sensible and convincing He describes what is happening here far better than I do.
I want to clarify the seriousness of the situation in hand firstly by identifying what it is that we, the customers, were promised by Bioware but did not receive. Mass Effect 3, is a work of design, and was produced and marketed as a design primarily, not as a work of art. I've already tried to explain the difference between art and design in detail, so I'll just try and condense it into two sentences. Designs have objective goals, this product does A, B, C and so on. Works of art have subjective goals, i.e. this artwork does not really do anything in particular, but for some reason I like it. That is the difference. The Mass Effect franchise from the very get go has been the former. A work of design. When you buy a Mass Effect game, you know what it is you're getting. Or at least we thought we did. Becasue it had design goals:
I control a character in a sci fi universe and I get to choose what that character says and does, particulalry at key turning points in the story. I have a choice It is sci fi, hence all main plot devices must be explained somehow using scientific jargon I get a codex that plausibly explains most of the fictional technology that exists using some scientific arguments I get a story that has a beginning middle and an end I have guns, I have squadmates with different abilities My relationships with characters built over ME1 and ME2 will be acknowledged and explored at the end of the game
Designs often have a level of artistic freedom but they never sacrifice the design goals over artistic expression. If we do that then the design falls apart - oh wait that's exactly what has happened here. Bioware said they had fulfilled all of these design goals with Mass Effect 3, and that made you want to buy it. I certainly did. In fact before I finished the game I couldn't understand what everyone was going on about. I thought that a franchise that had adhered so closely to its original design goals couldn't possibly disappoint me. The problem is that we have all bought the game and have found that it does not fulfiull the design goals that Bioware said it would. The game is incomplete. It is obvious. Why then, did we pay for it? We paid for it because we were convinced that Bioware would actually listen to us if there was a problem with the game, and that our feedback would be welcomed and acted upon appropriately. What we got instead was Ray Muzyka telling us that our feedback had been "incredibly painful." Is that what we are? Just a big headache to them? Now I'm getting a headache. Oh look, EVERYBODY IS LOSING. It seems Bioware have chosen to ignore the complaints and requests of their customers that paid for an unfinished product. They have released a statement in writing, not in person, that ignores the fans and only further serves to satisfy the artistic ego of the writers. Not to satisfy the customers. That's funny, becasue your customers are your sole source of income. No customers, no, game, no one gets paid. Everyone loses. Will you change the ending Bioware? It's what your customers want. We paid you money for it
"No. BioWare strongly believes in the team's artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned."
I respectfully request that you plan further ending DLC with different endings. You might not want to, but unfortunately I think you need to.
QFT.
However, I believe Bioware at this point is beyond listening. After all, they are defending their "artistic integrity" regardless of how many problems, how many inconsistancies the ending itself has presented to their paying customers.
Thus, there is only one course left to us as customers. Do not purchase ANY DLCs unless it specifically states that its a multiple endings pack, even so, only doing so so that a great series isn't ruined by 10 minutes of hubris.
Don't buy any future Bioware products as the company has shown not to honor its own advertising and definitely are not honest in dealings with their paying customers.
Can someone please point me in the direction of a single comment that implies Bioware is actually listening to a thing we're saying? And I mean actually listening, not just trying to quell the situation.
Yes click page one, that would be 236,793 posts ago.
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