23455 réponses à ce sujet

[tuckbot3]

Capt Sheridan wrote...

tuckbot3 wrote...

Can someone please point me in the direction of a single comment that implies Bioware is actually listening to a thing we're saying? And I mean actually listening, not just trying to quell the situation.

Yes click page one, that would be 236,793 posts ago.

Perhaps I should revise my statement.

Can anyone point me in the direction of something that Bioware has actually done or promised that shows they are actually listening to us?

[9Enrico0]

but why bioware dont write a message here like "we are listening" or "thaks for your feedback"... for show us that they are really reading?

[renegadeV8]

I really hope Bioware are still listening this far into the thread.
I suppose between the retake mass effect movement, all the articles,videos and threads on this site and others my issues with ME3 are already out there and it's more a question of how much Bioware want to respond to them. For what it's worth I completely agree with the complaints about the original ending and the worries about an expanded cut in the ME3 articles on gamefront and the ME3 videos on the angry joe show which I'm guessing Bioware definitely will have seen.
All I really want to add to that is that I really hope they don't hold back delivering branching endings and consequences to decisions for the sake of leaving things open for another entry in the series.

If they really want to continue with the ME franchise after Shepard's story rather than moving onto something new then I think most fans would be a lot happier with a prequel or a game set so far into the future of the ME universe that it wouldn't matter if they established a vague canon ME1-3 deep in the backstory and they gave ME3 the branching ending where choices, war assets and relationships with the squad pay off, have consequences and give the series the ending it deserves.

There are good ideas for how they could improve the game already out there

• Here's my ideas for a rewrite built around the indoctrination theory:
  http://social.biowar.../index/11175404

• Here's a great set of ideas for a rewrite I found on this site that takes the current ending at face value but expands on it and plans for it to branch off in ways that could be really satisfying:
  http://social.biowar...1126/1#11218773
• Here's another I found on deviantart that has explanations for the unanswered questions in ME3:
  http://arkis.deviant...OILERS-28990212

Oh and my favourite ME3 moment is a close call between Thane's fight with Kai Leng and Mordin's sacrifice to cure the genophage. Both really powerful moments.

Modifié par renegadeV8, 10 avril 2012 - 08:17 .

[Changer the Elder]

9Enrico0 wrote...

but why bioware dont write a message here like "we are listening" or "thaks for your feedback"... for show us that they are really reading?

Because they can use the time better. Like developing the Extended cut. They do read the forums. They've proven it several times.

[LiarasShield]

Now I'm going to push this one step further beyond regular player perspective the way we control shepard is the way we would probably act in the same situations if we were shepard from either being a badass who doesn't take **** from anyone or someone who wants to help all they can so if you think about it we are all commander shepard and as Commander shepard from you nearly being destroyed at the citadel from saren and soverign from you getting blasted by the collectors and you and some of your crew die from the balst from you being brought back to life to destroy the collector base wouldn't you want your crew to remain loyal I mean your crew cared enough for you to run your ass back to the normandy as bullets where flying all around and even help get your ass on board wouldn't you want your crew to stay by your side as you have worked hard to gather the fleets of several different races wouldn't you want to not destroy the relays or have your crew not abandon you without a second thought because they cared at the collector base didn't they wether you live or die wouldn't you want the person who you loved who has shared your pain and has gone through everything that you have wouldn't you want him or her to mourn you or to find a way to be with you again Well wouldn't you if you can see yourself as shepard and as shepard wouldn't you want that for yourself or i'll put it this way for all the soldiers who have been through several wars and have seen nothing but pain and sorrow wouldn't you like to settle down with someone to share your pain and your love I don't want this ending just for shepard I would want this ending for my self if I was in the same circumstances As shepard I would want to finally find the damn light at the end of the tunnel and as shepard or if you were shepard could really accept just giving up or not caring about the people who have been by your side up until the final battle or the final moment that is something I truely ask you

Modifié par LiarasShield, 10 avril 2012 - 08:05 .

[9Enrico0]

Changer the Elder wrote...

9Enrico0 wrote...

but why bioware dont write a message here like "we are listening" or "thaks for your feedback"... for show us that they are really reading?

Because they can use the time better. Like developing the Extended cut. They do read the forums. They've proven it several times.

i hope so... but 1 message... 
just to prove they are reading ......
and I hope they are reading the other forum sections like the romance forum... there are  many feedback in the romance forum

[Archonsg]

What I think the real problem here is that EA's Legal dept nixed any movement or admission that there is a problem with the ending or that ME3 was sold as an incomplete product. After all, they need to ensure that they have a defendable position if any lawsuit is brought against EA right?

That is probably why we are only getting a "clarification" and not a re-write.

Any "alternative" endings, must come later as a "favor", as additional content because of demand, from the position that the customer wants more, and not that the product is faulty to start with.

So, I do think that if ever, an "alternative endings DLC" is even be a possibility is if, Legal okies it and they see it as profitable.

[LiarasShield]

LiarasShield wrote...

Now I'm going to push this one step further beyond regular player perspective the way we control shepard is the way we would probably act in the same situations if we were shepard from either being a badass who doesn't take **** from anyone or someone who wants to help all they can so if you think about it we are all commander shepard and as Commander shepard from you nearly being destroyed at the citadel from saren and soverign from you getting blasted by the collectors and you and some of your crew die from the balst from you being brought back to life to destroy the collector base wouldn't you want your crew to remain loyal I mean your crew cared enough for you to run your ass back to the normandy as bullets where flying all around and even help get your ass on board wouldn't you want your crew to stay by your side as you have worked hard to gather the fleets of several different races wouldn't you want to not destroy the relays or have your crew not abandon you without a second thought because they cared at the collector base didn't they wether you live or die wouldn't you want the person who you loved who has shared your pain and has gone through everything that you have wouldn't you want him or her to mourn you or to find a way to be with you again Well wouldn't you if you can see yourself as shepard and as shepard wouldn't you want that for yourself or i'll put it this way for all the soldiers who have been through several wars and have seen nothing but pain and sorrow wouldn't you like to settle down with someone to share your pain and your love I don't want this ending just for shepard I would want this ending for my self if I was in the same circumstances As shepard I would want to finally find the damn light at the end of the tunnel and as shepard or if you were shepard could really accept just giving up or not caring about the people who have been by your side up until the final battle or the final moment that is something I truely ask you

this is one of the things I'm gonna quote from now on because I feel this is something we should all ask ourselves

[tuckbot3]

Changer the Elder wrote...

9Enrico0 wrote...

but why bioware dont write a message here like "we are listening" or "thaks for your feedback"... for show us that they are really reading?

Because they can use the time better. Like developing the Extended cut. They do read the forums. They've proven it several times.

I disagree. If they were actually listening, they would drop this "Artistic Integrity" non-sense, and just change the ending. Instead, we're told that they're going to "clarify" the ending. I don't want a clarifiation. The ending was unsatisfying and didn't make any sense, twisting the rules of the Mass Effect universe to accomadate this ending isn't going to make me feel any better. We even continue to tell Bioware that what we were promised in the "Extended Cut" DLC isn't what we asked for, and they still refuse to consider actually changing the ending.

Modifié par tuckbot3, 10 avril 2012 - 08:12 .

[LiarasShield]

I am Commander Shepard and I approve of this post

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

Changer the Elder wrote...

9Enrico0 wrote...

but why bioware dont write a message here like "we are listening" or "thaks for your feedback"... for show us that they are really reading?

Because they can use the time better. Like developing the Extended cut. They do read the forums. They've proven it several times.

Who are you trying to convince? yourself or the rest of us?  They are a company. Their goal is to make money. They are not listening to their customers anymore. They made a choice and that's all. I doubt if that Extended Cut was already planned before everybody knew the ending.

The yspend a lot of money on the Mkt campaings before releasing the game. I think they earnt the most of the money they could earn with ME on the first/second week after launching it. Then, they just forgot, because they don't need us anymore. They already have our money.

However, I hope they are doing something right in that DLC. Hope it does not to disappoint us again... at least not too much..

[Changer the Elder]

LittleBlueChildrenNow: I'm not trying to convince anyone, let alone myself, I'm merely not about to start seeing and expecting the worst just for the kicks of it.

[9Enrico0]

XD LittleBlueChildrenNow... great name.. =)

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

Changer the Elder wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow: I'm not trying to convince anyone, let alone myself, I'm merely not about to start seeing and expecting the worst just for the kicks of it.

I hope I was as optimistic as you are...

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

9Enrico0 wrote...

XD LittleBlueChildrenNow... great name.. =)

Do you want little blue children too?

[hpl271]

Hello everybody at Bioware,

talking about the Extended cut you're going to release this summer, i hope there will be some kind of menu that lets you decide which version of the game you would like to play/experience at least at the beginning of a new career (or in the better case an in game option like the language or the narrative option in the game menu). Like: Play the "original theatre version". Play the "extended cut". I'm curious to try the extended cut, but i'm ok with the original one. It would be a shame to loose it because of the update. Delete and reinstal the extended cut dlc it's not an option, too complicated.

Thank you.

Modifié par hpl271, 10 avril 2012 - 08:44 .

[AmstradHero]

[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...

[quote]AmstradHero wrote...
Why does Harbinger fly off?[/quote]
He thinks everyone is dead.
[/quote]
He flies off AFTER Shepard starts walking slowly towards the beam in clear open space. It should be blatantly obvious to him that everyone is NOT dead. Harbinger isn't an idiot.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...
[quote]Why does command think everyone is dead when they're clearly not?[/quote]
Because they appear to be. Who's not dead is missing. They just got blasted from a point blank range by something that usually tears whole dreadnoughts apart. It's safe to assume for everyone (including Harbinger him... itself) that nobody could've survived it.
[/quote]
Again, this announcement comes AFTER Shepard gets up and starts walking. Clearly, everyone is NOT dead.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...

[quote]Why does Hackett attempt to contact Shepard when they think (s)he's dead?[/quote]
Well, there is a "Shepard must've made it!" moment when the Citadel opens and gets the Crucible connected, isn't there...
[/quote]
Ah, handwaving. Great.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...
[quote]How does the Illusive Man make Shepard shoot Anderson?[/quote]
Have you noticed he's controlling him at the moment? 
[/quote]
Okay, HOW can the Illusive Man control Shepard? Indoctrination doesn't work that way.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...
[quote]How does Anderson get ahead of Shepard?[/quote]
They didn't land on the same place. It's not like all portals must have only one man-sized exit point.
[/quote]
There's nowhere else in the tunnel.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...

[quote]How did Anderson take a separate route to the Control Panel when clearly none exists?[/quote]
And how do you think he took a separate route? He was even describing the same things Shepard later mentions. He could've just landed in a different part of the tunnel, closer to the door.[/quote]
He's describing things that are basically the same as what Shepard can see. Given there's only a single route, it would be impossible for Shepard not to see him.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...

[quote]How did TIM magically appear in the room with the Control Panel?[/quote]
That's been done in videogames, movies and other visual media so long that it's older than dirt. They all do it for the sake of dramatization, to have a character appear out of nowhere to make them more mysterious. Jack's Illusive man after all. Would you honestly want the game to show you he was hiding somewhere on purpose, playing peek-a-boo till he has Shepard firmly in his grasp? 
[/quote]
Right, so because it's an acceptable handwave, we should just take it? Come on, that's a pathetically weak argument.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...
[quote]Why does the gun have infinite ammo?[/quote]
...noticed it's a videogame? They usually do that when there's a crucial moment to prevent people getting killed just because they run out of ammo. It's done for the sake of scenery.
You have infinite ammo in Uncharted when you're fighting the Yetti fro the first time. You have infinite ammo in Uncharted again when sliding from the bridge and shooting the Guardian beating up your teammate.
If I remember correctly, when you're shooting dr. Eva after she almost kills your Virmire Survivor, you also can't run out of ammo. Also, when Normandy sweeps in for its big-damn-heroes moment right at the beginning of the game, it also does so only when you're in your last thermal clip, not before. It's called dramatic effect and for its sake, many things and rules are generally agreed to be bent.
[/quote]
Pretty sure I had ammo there. Again, it's a handwave. People can still die anyway, so it's not to make sure of success.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...

[quote]Why does the Space Child let Shepard ride up the Space Elevator when it could simply let him/her die at the control panel and have its current solution intact?[/quote]
Because it wants to talk to Shepard. They've come further than any other cycle before them. They have proven his theories and solution will no longer work. He even says that pretty much word for word. Catalyst is not the big bad villain. He doesn't explicitly want Shepard to die when Shepard did everything but the last step to prove him wrong. He... dang it... it does simply accept its theories as being overruled.
[/quote]
How has it proven it? The organics still can't win because the Reapers outnumbered them and will ultimately win the battle without the supposed superweapon. His reasoning is completely wrong.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...

[quote]Why are there three devices in the Citadel that provide solutions that the Space Child had not foreseen until now?[/quote]
It has not forseen the Synthesis, because it needed a Crucible for that solution to become apparent. When you don't have a tree, you cannot really consider climbing it in the first place, can you? Especially if you're as math-based and literall minded as Catalyst is.
Control is something Illusive man just recently prove it might be done, so he hardly expected organics to come that far. But I'm not sure if he counted that as "new possibility" or not.
[/quote]
Yes, but these were created when the Citadel was built. Millions of years ago. Why create a destroy option for the perfect solution. Doesn't that imply it's obviously not perfect? i.e. IT MAKES NO SENSE.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...
[quote]Why does the Mass Relay explosion not kill everyone?[/quote]
Why should it? It didn't kill everyone in the Batarian system. And now you're even not dropping a freaking giant space rock on it. Overload something isn't the same as violently smashing it to pieces. This has been explained even by Patrick Weekes.
[/quote]
Actually it did kill everyone in the Batarian system. They're dead. All of them. If it's been explained, I'd love to see it. The relays still explode, and it was determined that the release of energy from an exploding Mass Relay was the equivalent to a supernova. Again, this is a handwave at best. "It's okay, this is a special, magical explosion." Come on, that's pathetic writing.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...

[quote]How does Shepard potentially survive re-entry back onto Earth?[/quote]
I'm not saying I agree with that trope being too overused, but Mass Effect is a work of fiction. It has streched the bits of survivability ever since its start. How does Shepard survive when everything around him is hit by a Reaper debris the size of at least a small car? How does anything from Shepard survive to be rebuilt in the Lazarus project when several-tons heavy asteroids burn to a crisp when falling through the atmosphere? It's Shepard. Lady luck's not just on his size, it's violently clinging to him. Just like to prery much every game's protagonist
[/quote]
Except this time (s)he is in one piece, instead of being a small bit of a brain.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...

[quote]Why is Joker running away from the battle?[/quote]
I don't know about you, but if I saw a creepy alien technology do things I haven't seen them doing before (opening up like a... well, I don't actually have a polite metaphor for that.) and then radiating some sort of an eerie blast (that are, mind you, generally bad, very bad for a starship), I'd try to evade it as best I could. That's not running, that's having a self-preservation instinct.

[quote]HOW is Joker running away from the battle?[/quote]
... in a spaceship? With an FTL drive? I doubt he's jumping through a relay - the animation's are pretty much the same for both ways of travel. But yes, that's very confusing unless you take a break to think about it.
[/quote]
I might be able to accept these, heck, I'm probably just get sick of pointing out problems.
[quote]Changer the Elder wrote...

[quote]How did Shepard's squadmates (presumably killed along with "everyone else" by Harbinger's laser) end up on the Normandy?[/quote]
Yes, that appears to be a bit of a plothole. I assume it's been done not to disappoint those who pick their closest and tightest to stand by them in the final battle only to get spaced in a second later. I don't have a save file for that moment anymore, but I've been meaning to do a reaserch for a while to see how far behind me they were during the charge towards the conduit.
How did they get up on the Normandy - well, we have no idea how long time has passed. Shepard passes out for a while after being transfered by the conduit. Hackett might've very well ordered the whole planned attack to retreat to their homeposts. And with Shepard's team being his next best asset right after the Commander him/herself, it makes sense to want them onboard the Normandy and not stuck on Earth in case they have to retreat and regroup.
[/quote]
Again, this is a whole lot of handwaving explanation to simply attempt to justify the poor writing present in the ending.

There's too much stuff that is utterly ridiculous that everyone is just expected to accept as "artistic" when it just doesn't make sense.

[tuckbot3]

Changer the Elder wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow: I'm not trying to convince anyone, let alone myself, I'm merely not about to start seeing and expecting the worst just for the kicks of it.

"The DLC will offer additional scenes that provide additional context."

"The goal of the DLC is not to provide a new ending to the game..."

"Are we going to change the ending of the game? No."

(These quotes came directly from Bioware's official Online Manager.)

As stated by MrBtongue, Angry Joe, and Jermey Jahns; giving us a "clarifiation" of how the ending makes sense, doesn't work. The reasons the endings don't make sense are inherint in everything that makes up the last 15 minutes of the game.

Why is this child telling me that synthetics and organics are doomed to wage war? I just united the Quarians and the Geth to fight him.

Why can't I tell this kid to leave my galaxy and take his reapers with him? I don't want to force organics and synthetics to merge in a process that makes no sense, I don't want to throw away everything I said about the moral inpermisablility of trying to control the reapers, and I don't want to wipe out the Geth and Edi. Most of all, I don't want to destroy all the mass relays, which at best would destroy the magic and very nature by which the Mass Effect universe works, and at worst end galactic life as we know it.

Most importantly, why can't I be given any control? I've spent my entire Mass Effect career, opposing the Reapers and refusing to accept the fate that they try to force on me. Why then, in my last moments, must I become a submissive ponce and accept the Catalyst's terms? Like I said before, why can't I point to the army (largely composed of synthetics) that I have united to fight him, and tell him that I won't fall in line to his cruel, unreasonable demands?

These are only some of the problems with the Mass Effect 3 ending, and the "Extended Cut" DLC doesn't fix them. As I've said before, a clarifiation and a couple epilouge scenes isn't what we want, they need to change the ending.

[Blazerer]

It's clear by now that Bioware doesn''t care what we type. they didn''t care 1023473 + 920990 = 1.944.463 posts ago, nor will they now. (yes that is almost 2 million posts)

A new movement has been established. Not just because of this ending, but because of everything Bioware and EA have pulled and tried to pull the last couple of months/years. Dragon Age, KOTOR, now the ME3...enough is enough.

Bioware and EA will only listen to one thing: their wallets. therefore '(with)hold your wallet' is here to show that we are not just dissatisfied with Mass effect, but the entire program both have been running for quite some time now.

If you are interested in joining, there is a link in my signature. We plan to make a point not just by protesting, but by actually costing Bioware and EA money. All we expect of you is your support, and civilised behaviour. Something I know you are all well capable off.

Let's start to force them to actually listen to us

So far we are at nearly 700 members in barely 5 days, we CAN make a difference. we are the consumer, we control THEM, not the other way around. all we have to do is to actually stand up and assume direct control.

Modifié par Blazerer, 10 avril 2012 - 08:57 .

[Archonsg]

9Enrico0 wrote...

but why bioware dont write a message here like "we are listening" or "thaks for your feedback"... for show us that they are really reading?

In a word, yes.

It's called, "damage control".

I have attended enough seminars and sessions with marketing / customer service to know that Bioware made Statements that put them in a very awkward position. Perhaps they were not given a choice themselves and were told to defend the ending perhaps not but they made a decision and are now stuck with it.

Right now, they are in damage control mode. The "clarification" DLC is a time buying move that shows that they are addressing what they "think" is the issue, gives them a time buffer in hopes that customers by that time would have cooled down in expectations and generally accept the "End" for what it is. That and bank on the fickle nature of the consumers who would be wowed by the "next best thing", probably Dragon Age 3 or Command And Conquer : Generals 2.

As a consumer you have one of the most powerful tool at your disposal. Your wallet.

[Thanatos144]

tuckbot3 wrote...

Changer the Elder wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow: I'm not trying to convince anyone, let alone myself, I'm merely not about to start seeing and expecting the worst just for the kicks of it.

"The DLC will offer additional scenes that provide additional context."

"The goal of the DLC is not to provide a new ending to the game..."

"Are we going to change the ending of the game? No."

(These quotes came directly from Bioware's official Online Manager.)

As stated by MrBtongue, Angry Joe, and Jermey Jahns; giving us a "clarifiation" of how the ending makes sense, doesn't work. The reasons the endings don't make sense are inherint in everything that makes up the last 15 minutes of the game.

Why is this child telling me that synthetics and organics are doomed to wage war? I just united the Quarians and the Geth to fight him.

Why can't I tell this kid to leave my galaxy and take his reapers with him? I don't want to force organics and synthetics to merge in a process that makes no sense, I don't want to throw away everything I said about the moral inpermisablility of trying to control the reapers, and I don't want to wipe out the Geth and Edi. Most of all, I don't want to destroy all the mass relays, which at best would destroy the magic and very nature by which the Mass Effect universe works, and at worst end galactic life as we know it.

Most importantly, why can't I be given any control? I've spent my entire Mass Effect career, opposing the Reapers and refusing to accept the fate that they try to force on me. Why then, in my last moments, must I become a submissive ponce and accept the Catalyst's terms? Like I said before, why can't I point to the army (largely composed of synthetics) that I have united to fight him, and tell him that I won't fall in line to his cruel, unreasonable demands?

These are only some of the problems with the Mass Effect 3 ending, and the "Extended Cut" DLC doesn't fix them. As I've said before, a clarifiation and a couple epilouge scenes isn't what we want, they need to change the ending.

cause it isnt your story.

[Blazerer]

Thanatos144 wrote...
cause it isnt your story.

we are the consumer, any promise made should be fulfilled or consequences should follow. If a man on the street tells you he has an expensive watch and makes you pay 200$ for it, and that watch is only worth 20$ it's theft.

If a product is promised to you, yet it does not match the value it has been presented as (broken promises everywhere), it's theft just as well

Modifié par Blazerer, 10 avril 2012 - 09:05 .

[9Enrico0]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

9Enrico0 wrote...

XD LittleBlueChildrenNow... great name.. =)

Do you want little blue children too?

obvious...  and not just me....   we are many 

Modifié par 9Enrico0, 10 avril 2012 - 09:08 .

[tuckbot3]

Thanatos144 wrote...
cause it isnt your story.

I payed $60 for their product. Before buying their product, I was promised multiple endings where my choices would matter. I was promised a drastically different conclusion, that would reflect everything I had done up to that moment. I was promised that I wouldn't get an A, B, C, ending. I was promised my ending wouldn't just be some arbitrary choice. As a consumer, I have every right to complain.

Bet even if I didn't; So what? Am I not allowed to complain about something just because I didn't make it? That's stupid, especially when it bares no resemblance to what I was promised, or what I was (told) to expect.

[Thanatos144]

Blazerer wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...
cause it isnt your story.

we are the consumer, any promise made should be fulfilled or consequences should follow. If a man on the street tells you he has an expensive watch and makes you pay 200$ for it, and that watch is only worth 20$ it's theft.

If a product is promised to you, yet it does not match the value it has been presented as (broken promises everywhere), it's theft just as well

tuckbot3 wrote...

I
payed $60 for their product. Before buying their product, I was
promised multiple endings where my choices would matter. I was promised a
drastically different conclusion, that would reflect everything I had
done up to that moment. I was promised that I wouldn't get an A, B, C,
ending. I was promised my ending wouldn't just be some arbitrary choice.
As a consumer, I have every right to complain.

Bet even if I
didn't; So what? Am I not allowed to complain about something just
because I didn't make it? That's stupid, especially when it bares no
resemblance to what I was promised, or what I was (told) to expect.

You go right ahead and keep thinking a interview by a writer made
during development meant it was a promise......I am done hoping commonsense wins out. I am done getting a headache trying to reason with the unreasonable. In the end Shepard will be dead or maybe not depending on the one ending and the relays will be gone.  You will never understand change cause you refuse to except it.

Modifié par Thanatos144, 10 avril 2012 - 09:18 .