23455 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

No_MSG wrote...

Also, just because I can't post this enough:

Artistic Vision: http://www.joystiq.c...es-in-future-e/

huh.  you know, I had no idea how much Hobbit has been revised and most of it due to editor and public's influence...  (was reading comments in above link and went googling).  and some... he didn't finish revising, becasue it recieved negative feedback

and this would be why I still hang out in this thread.  i learn something new and interesting every day.

P.S.  related to earlier discussion.  I don't think most (if not all) people defending the endings are working for bioware or EA, personaly.  especialy less eloquent/more inflamatory ones.  well maybe the newer accounts that have very similar sounding posts.  Humans are so diverse in their tastes that it doesn't surprise me that there are people who like the endings as they are.  it just so happens that they are in a minority in this case.  yes, the minority.

[EugeneBi]

ME3 ending on BBB site:

http://www.bbb.org/b...etter-or-worse/

[Jaulen]

Sorry, Bioware, you aren't listening. Extended cutscenes? Those should have been part of the ending in the first place....epilogue slides a la DA:O, should have at least been part of the ending originally. Maybe if you had spent that tiny bit of extra time on the ending, the fan base wouldn't be as up in arms as they are. But with the ending as weak as it is from a literary standpoint, there's just TOO much wrong with the ending as it stands to allow it to live on. I'll give you your artistic merit argument, crappy art is still 'art' I guess.

When I got to that ending I felt gut-punched. But then I thought it was some amazing marketing thing you were doing in light of the story leak earlier last year, and were holding back on the original ending and were going to release the 'real' ending after a bit.....really would have been a MAJOR marketing coup, and storyline coup....it really would have made the Mass Effect series be a legend, and a "THIS is how you do it." instead of a warning of "This is NOT how you write an ending, and this is NOT how you handle your disgruntled fanbase". I thought for sure that there had to be additional game play after that ending. For a RPG that builds up for 100+ hours, a 5 min anti-climactic ending is no ending. Actually, I felt like Bioware had gut-punched me and then robbed me of my $80. And that DLC ad at the very end, tacky tacky tacky.

But I don't think too many people are going to be super supportive of having the ending 'explained' to us like we're some sort of 10 year old. I'd garner a bet that many of the fans of ME are sci-fi readers and of at least middling intelligence.

I know personally I won't be buying DLC for ME3, and my husband won't either (oh, and we own ME1 and 2 on PC, and Xbox, and ME2 on PS2....same with other Bioware titles.), and unless the ending 'dlc' materially changes the ending to actual choices (PLEASE for the love of god get RID of the synthesis ending.....how anyone ever thought that made sense in a sci-fi story boggles the mind....unless the AI is really Sandal, then .... maybe?) I won't be preordering anymore Bioware titles, and depending on fan feedback on the boards, may not be buying any more Bioware games at all.

The ending was just that horrible to me, and the way in which Bioware/EA handled their fanbase, and allowed other outlets to treat their fanbase, just really killed all the warm fuzzies I had for Bioware.

Thanks for the ride, but I think it's time for me to get off and go to a different amusement park.

Oh, and Bioware, I'd suggest moving forward that you have players gametest your game, you know.....like how movie theaters will prescreen a movie with a test audience? You need more than just bug checkers, you need an end user QAQC process.

Modifié par Jaulen, 11 avril 2012 - 01:34 .

[No_MSG]

Jaulen wrote...

Sorry, Bioware, you aren't listening. Extended cutscenes? Those should have been part of the ending in the first place....epilogue slides a la DA:O, should have at least been part of the ending originally. Maybe if you had spent that tiny bit of extra time on the ending, the fan base wouldn't be as up in arms as they are. But with the ending as weak as it is from a literary standpoint, there's just TOO much wrong with the ending as it stands to allow it to live on. I'll give you your artistic merit argument, crappy art is still 'art' I guess.

When I got to that ending I felt gut-punched. But then I thought it was some amazing marketing thing you were doing in light of the story leak earlier last year, and were holding back on the original ending and were going to release the 'real' ending after a bit.....really would have been a MAJOR marketing coup, and storyline coup....it really would have made the Mass Effect series be a legend, and a "THIS is how you do it." instead of a warning of "This is NOT how you write an ending, and this is NOT how you handle your disgruntled fanbase". I thought for sure that there had to be additional game play after that ending. For a RPG that builds up for 100+ hours, a 5 min anti-climactic ending is no ending. Actually, I felt like Bioware had gut-punched me and then robbed me of my $80. And that DLC ad at the very end, tacky tacky tacky.

But I don't think too many people are going to be super supportive of having the ending 'explained' to us like we're some sort of 10 year old. I'd garner a bet that many of the fans of ME are sci-fi readers and of at least middling intelligence.

I know personally I won't be buying DLC for ME3, and my husband won't either (oh, and we own ME1 and 2 on PC, and Xbox, and ME2 on PS2....same with other Bioware titles.), and unless the ending 'dlc' materially changes the ending to actual choices (PLEASE for the love of god get RID of the synthesis ending.....how anyone ever thought that made sense in a sci-fi story boggles the mind....unless the AI is really Sandal, then .... maybe?) I won't be preordering anymore Bioware titles, and depending on fan feedback on the boards, may not be buying any more Bioware games at all.

The ending was just that horrible to me, and the way in which Bioware/EA handled their fanbase, and allowed other outlets to treat their fanbase, just really killed all the warm fuzzies I had for Bioware.

Thanks for the ride, but I think it's time for me to get off and go to a different amusement park.

Oh, and Bioware, I'd suggest moving forward that you have players gametest your game, you know.....like how movie theaters will prescreen a movie with a test audience? You need more than just bug checkers, you need an end user QAQC process.

Are... are you suggesting synthesising Mass Effect and Dragon Age?

"I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite store in Kirkwall."
"Synthesis?  Synthesis!"

[Jaulen]

I don't know how else you can explain the Synthesis ending, unless Sandal somehow escpaed from the Empress of Orlais.

Well, Shep CAN wear some rather ..... medieval-ish looking space-armor.

Modifié par Jaulen, 11 avril 2012 - 01:39 .

[ArenCordial]

Mass Effect and Dragon Age 2 were already synthesized.

Dialogue Wheel
Illusion of choices that have no real impact.

[Archonsg]

jeweledleah wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

Also, just because I can't post this enough:

Artistic Vision: http://www.joystiq.c...es-in-future-e/

huh.  you know, I had no idea how much Hobbit has been revised and most of it due to editor and public's influence...  (was reading comments in above link and went googling).  and some... he didn't finish revising, becasue it recieved negative feedback

and this would be why I still hang out in this thread.  i learn something new and interesting every day.

P.S.  related to earlier discussion.  I don't think most (if not all) people defending the endings are working for bioware or EA, personaly.  especialy less eloquent/more inflamatory ones.  well maybe the newer accounts that have very similar sounding posts.  Humans are so diverse in their tastes that it doesn't surprise me that there are people who like the endings as they are.  it just so happens that they are in a minority in this case.  yes, the minority.

Oh I don't know, EA/Bioware has online numbers and I bet most are switching from single player mode to multiplayer mode, if they are like me who just can't find the desire to play a second run and feel even more depressed by the ending.

Might explain why Bioware is switching gears and now seem to want to focus more on the MP side of things. Don't get me wrong, MP is fun, hell, I got my N7 score into the 900s now but ... IT IS NOT WHY I BOUGHT THIS GAME.

I have however come to the conclusion that Bioware doesn't care about what makes good games, rather they are now more focused on how to create the need and desire to buy DLCs. And you have to admit, the DLC model scale in profit is through the roof.

Heck, considering that this is EA, and playing on the psychological manipulation card, they will need to wait till all the furrow about the ending has died down and cooled off. Then, announce an "expansion" pack with alternate endings and a "new" London + Galactic campaign, just for the fans because they waited and begged for it this long.

Odds are we'd all buy it. Myself included, because, I can't let Mass Effect end like this.

Sounds plausible?

They did it before, though not with this bad an ending. Think back to the original Baldur's gate 2. Pre Throne of Bhaal Expansion.

[lasrmountedmoai]

 Just wanted to chime in with my .02 regarding the ending.
Not going to lie: I am a fan of the series and was swept up. Loved seeing off the characters I'd been along for the ride with and I think the Indoctrination Theory is a stretch. I'm surprised how upset people are at the reuse of assets in the ending despite how the various endings still result in far different results depending on their choices and their readiness. The whole series has had to take narrative shortcuts to account for the variety of choices. Look at how characters were replaced if they didn't survive the suicide mission. 

With that said, I've sat with my ultra-paragon green ending for a couple days now and Synthesis just doesn't seem like what choice she would have made. My Shep defended the Geth and Edi, defended the Krogan, united the galaxy in a truly unprecedented way. She believed enough in the potential for both AI and Organic life to break the cycle that she put the entire galaxy on the line to win the right to see it through, yet the only choice she had to make sure they all survived was "Synthesis"?

I see the angle- the singularity, the inevitability, but I don't buy it. I would have loved a paragon conversation option or paragon interrupt where Shep argues against syntethesis but for the opportunity to attempt a new path for AI and Organics to live side by side. The Geth and the Quarians working together, EDI and Joker. Have Shep challenge the Star Child, even offer to show her by jumping into the stream and sharing herself with it- to show it the potential of a Galaxy that has finally learned how to move on. The friendships she'd gained over the years and the way she'd persevered. 

She can still die her noble death. The Mass relays can still be destroyed in calling off the reapers. Joker can still inexplicably pilot the Normandy away from Earth, just give me the option of survival for all without Synthesis and without taking control of the reapers.

[jeweledleah]

Archonsg wrote...

Oh I don't know, EA/Bioware has online numbers and I bet most are switching from single player mode to multiplayer mode, if they are like me who just can't find the desire to play a second run and feel even more depressed by the ending.

Might explain why Bioware is switching gears and now seem to want to focus more on the MP side of things. Don't get me wrong, MP is fun, hell, I got my N7 score into the 900s now but ... IT IS NOT WHY I BOUGHT THIS GAME.

I have however come to the conclusion that Bioware doesn't care about what makes good games, rather they are now more focused on how to create the need and desire to buy DLCs. And you have to admit, the DLC model scale in profit is through the roof.

Heck, considering that this is EA, and playing on the psychological manipulation card, they will need to wait till all the furrow about the ending has died down and cooled off. Then, announce an "expansion" pack with alternate endings and a "new" London + Galactic campaign, just for the fans because they waited and begged for it this long.

Odds are we'd all buy it. Myself included, because, I can't let Mass Effect end like this.

Sounds plausible?

They did it before, though not with this bad an ending. Think back to the original Baldur's gate 2. Pre Throne of Bhaal Expansion.

well, I think I played multiplayer for all of half an hour, post ME3 release and while I did buy a veteran pack, it was more becasue I had these 80 points sitting in my account for forever, ever since I bought appearance pack 2.

that said.  yes, it sounds VERY plausible.  will I buy it?  that will heavily depend on the spoilers.  however, that my chances of buying future bioware games will be very very low and if something is going to be planned as a thrilogy, chances are, I'd wait untill all 3 games were out, prefereably packaged up into ultimate editions, like DAO, and then - only after reading spoilers.  no preorders.  no full price.

/shrug.

[CinematicSunset]

So I dont know what the truth of the situation is, (how could I?), but to me- The ending didnt feel like "The End". I want to believe that it's not and that the plan was to be this epic WTF just happened? One where you can accept that as the end but something inside quietly screams NO!
Because that's how good media ought to be, right? Shouldnt we want more? If we're asking, "Wait, so what happens next?!", doesnt that suggest that the artists have succeded in captivating their audience? We see it all the time in movies with planned sequels, or TV shows season finales where the idea is to get you interested enough to come back when they have more material to present. What about in books? Think of your favorite series! How does each book end? They reach a climactic point of completion, though instilling the sense that the overarching story is not quite done just yet. That, to me, is exactly how I feel at the end of Mass Effect 3.
And so Im excited! I want an expansion! Or DLC! And why would that be a bad thing? I wasnt cheated- I got a full game complete with an "ending" of sorts. And its not like this would be the first time we've seen this plan, (why has everyone forgotten about Diablo 2?). An to be tricked into thinking that that was the end, to feel like my heart was ripped from my chest and I was left in the cold... only to be offered a blanket of rekindeling hope! To see, no- Experience something so emotionally moving! Why would you want something else? Why is your idea of a simple, clean-cut-and-dry ending better than this?
Bioware, if you were to release DLC or some expansion to Mass Effect 3 that truly ended Shepard's story the way I know you can, the way I think you've planned this whole time, I hereby swear to prepay in full for the epic edition of every game you make from here on out, (so long as its an original IP and you dont decide sports is the next frontier...). I love what you did for Star Wars. I love Dragon Age. I love Mass Effect. Your games play exactly how I want, your stories are tell exactly what I want and I know Im not alone. You were the reason I "had" to buy my girlfriend her own 360 with her own copies of games I already have. So thats at least two of us...

[yukon fire]

no, your not.

[InLoveWithTaliZorah]

These extended cutscenes that Bioware has indicated in their press release are still confined within the current ending. The reasoning behind this is "to maintain artistic integrity." Apparently, the immaterial idea of "artistic integrity" is more important than the fans and the fans' money. Great message Bioware. Just great. This is why I am staying away from your products from now on.

[mebaby2]

Moment ? The intire story was awsome from the first book including the ending of me3 [did not care so much for the comics but i just dont like comics]

Cant wait to see what happens next

[AutumnGhost]

Why would you expand on something that at the core is crap? Artistic integrity was compromised the moment bioware released ME3 with such a shoddy, contrived ending with events that made absolutely no sense. Most people call the piling of crap, a landfill.

[Jujub3ans]

I didn't even get to finish my ending, mine ended on the door to the normandy about to open and then credits. I just don't understand why it had to be a die or die storyline. After all we went through. I hope this "extended edition" gives the game some justice like the other 2 had, I didn't even have the team i worked so hard for in the last game reunited, some bad decisions on Biowares part.

[X Alastar X]

Last i checked blowing up a single relay wiped out an entire system so blowing up a galaxies set of relays would by that logic kind of snuff out a next wouldnt it?

[The Fazzle]

AutumnGhost wrote...

Why would you expand on something that at the core is crap? Artistic integrity was compromised the moment bioware released ME3 with such a shoddy, contrived ending with events that made absolutely no sense. Most people call the piling of crap, a landfill.

They're trying to polish a turd and hope that everyone will be happy with it. I'm very dissapointed with what was said at PAX. By simply elaborating on the current ending(s) they're simply rubbing the terribleness in our faces. I feel like they're saying "you're all idiots, here let us explain why this great for you." Any ending that needs to be explained later on isn't a very good one.

[Archonsg]

Jujub3ans wrote...

I didn't even get to finish my ending, mine ended on the door to the normandy about to open and then credits. I just don't understand why it had to be a die or die storyline. After all we went through. I hope this "extended edition" gives the game some justice like the other 2 had, I didn't even have the team i worked so hard for in the last game reunited, some bad decisions on Biowares part.

Nope. Official statement by Bioware is "Will there be a new or different ending? No."

So, there you have it.


Essentially;
"We heard that you think the ending is illogical, inconsistent, depressing and lacking specifically, any impact of all the choices you made that we said would effect this ending. So, we are going to polish it a little give it spit and shine! Its still, illogical, inconsistent and lacking the choices you made, but it's shiny!"

[Ksandor]

Jaulen wrote...

Sorry, Bioware, you aren't listening. Extended cutscenes? Those should have been part of the ending in the first place....epilogue slides a la DA:O, should have at least been part of the ending originally. Maybe if you had spent that tiny bit of extra time on the ending, the fan base wouldn't be as up in arms as they are. But with the ending as weak as it is from a literary standpoint, there's just TOO much wrong with the ending as it stands to allow it to live on. I'll give you your artistic merit argument, crappy art is still 'art' I guess.

...Actually, I felt like Bioware had gut-punched me and then robbed me of my $80. And that DLC ad at the very end, tacky tacky tacky.

But I don't think too many people are going to be super supportive of having the ending 'explained' to us like we're some sort of 10 year old. I'd garner a bet that many of the fans of ME are sci-fi readers and of at least middling intelligence.

I know personally I won't be buying DLC for ME3, and my husband won't either (oh, and we own ME1 and 2 on PC, and Xbox, and ME2 on PS2....same with other Bioware titles.), and unless the ending 'dlc' materially changes the ending to actual choices (PLEASE for the love of god get RID of the synthesis ending.....how anyone ever thought that made sense in a sci-fi story boggles the mind....unless the AI is really Sandal, then .... maybe?) I won't be preordering anymore Bioware titles, and depending on fan feedback on the boards, may not be buying any more Bioware games at all.

The ending was just that horrible to me, and the way in which Bioware/EA handled their fanbase, and allowed other outlets to treat their fanbase, just really killed all the warm fuzzies I had for Bioware.

Oh, and Bioware, I'd suggest moving forward that you have players gametest your game, you know.....like how movie theaters will prescreen a movie with a test audience? You need more than just bug checkers, you need an end user QAQC process.

I think Christina Norman, Manveer Heir, Ray Muzyka, Mac Walters and Casey Hudson, and EA, PR and marketing department should read this again, again and again... and then some.

[jeweledleah]

Ksandor wrote...

I think Christina Norman, Manveer Heir, Ray Muzyka, Mac Walters and Casey Hudson, and EA, PR and marketing department should read this again, again and again... and then some.

Christina Norman left Bioware midway through ME3 development. just saying

www.gamasutra.com/view/news/35594/Former_Mass_Effect_2_3_Lead_Gameplay_Designer_Joins_Riot_Games.php

[Adain878]

No idea if they are still paying attention or have hid themselves in some corner but found this and thought it summed up the situation pretty well.

http://imgur.com/Mtolh

Its a quote from Joss Whedon from his AMA on reddit.

[DoomBlackDragon]

Akael_Bayn wrote...

Quick, deflect the topic to something positive!

...yeah, we're not stupid, you know?
Don't give us this "We don't want to spoil things for people who aren't done" BS.

How about a straight answer about where all the many and varied endings we were promised went?




“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end.”

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people.”

EDIT/UPDATE: I've gotten lots of "virtual high fives" from various users for putting this up on the first page of the thread, and I just want you guys to know that I appreciate that you appreciate this post! That said, though, I want to let everyone know after this edit, I'm not going to be continuing to log back in and give personal responses to messages. The recent "buy DLC or GTFO" message was recieved loud and clear, and as I stated elsewhere: I'm GTFO-ing. This game, forum, and the related companies are all a footnote in history for me. Again, I appreciate the support, and I don't mean to ignore your positive messages, but I've got other things to spend my time on.

This is really why I was PO. I did not like ME2. Do not get me wrong it was a decent game but the importanting my shepards from ME1 did not really feel that big of a deal. When playing in ME1 their was alot of talk about your actions having a massive impact in ME2. Then alot of load screens in ME2 said "import your ME1 - ME2 character for massive impact in your ME3 story." Which nothing I did in ME1 or ME2 really mattered. Oh I give a small twick in ME3 where character a would be someone else if someone important died or someone might walk in for a 3 - 5 min cutsceen. Then the Devs promised us all this talk about if we import our character all of our actions will effect the ending. Sure while the story was now all about shepard in ME3 while ME2 the story was all about your crew. The ending was just a blanket ending as if the game was unfinished.

Ok Bioware we can respect your decision to believes in the team’s artistic ideas . You must also respect our decision to start boycotting your games. You promised us closure. We want our decision to affect our story. You know I am sure some if not alot of us would slide with a DAO power point slide show.

[Blazerer]

Adain878 wrote...

No idea if they are still paying attention or have hid themselves in some corner but found this and thought it summed up the situation pretty well.

http://imgur.com/Mtolh

Its a quote from Joss Whedon from his AMA on reddit.

that´´s actually a very nice quote! ty for sharing

[Zeratul12]

Can we just have the happy ending we all want....

[Theronyll Itholien]

Something had died when I woke up this morning, and it was my passion for Mass Effect in its entirety (is that a word?).

How BioWare has been behaving and the crap they have given us as an ending is seriously criminal. My money has been stolen from me with fraud and lies. The hubris, arrogance and condescending behaviour the PAX panel displayed was an elaborate presentation of Casey Hudson's smug face.

They sold their soul. They're dead to me. The turd-polish DLC can kiss the exit of my sewer-system.