23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Barabadin]

Jaulen wrote...

Sorry, Bioware, you aren't listening. Extended cutscenes? Those should have been part of the ending in the first place....epilogue slides a la DA:O, should have at least been part of the ending originally. Maybe if you had spent that tiny bit of extra time on the ending, the fan base wouldn't be as up in arms as they are. But with the ending as weak as it is from a literary standpoint, there's just TOO much wrong with the ending as it stands to allow it to live on. I'll give you your artistic merit argument, crappy art is still 'art' I guess.

When I got to that ending I felt gut-punched. But then I thought it was some amazing marketing thing you were doing in light of the story leak earlier last year, and were holding back on the original ending and were going to release the 'real' ending after a bit.....really would have been a MAJOR marketing coup, and storyline coup....it really would have made the Mass Effect series be a legend, and a "THIS is how you do it." instead of a warning of "This is NOT how you write an ending, and this is NOT how you handle your disgruntled fanbase". I thought for sure that there had to be additional game play after that ending. For a RPG that builds up for 100+ hours, a 5 min anti-climactic ending is no ending. Actually, I felt like Bioware had gut-punched me and then robbed me of my $80. And that DLC ad at the very end, tacky tacky tacky.

But I don't think too many people are going to be super supportive of having the ending 'explained' to us like we're some sort of 10 year old. I'd garner a bet that many of the fans of ME are sci-fi readers and of at least middling intelligence.

I know personally I won't be buying DLC for ME3, and my husband won't either (oh, and we own ME1 and 2 on PC, and Xbox, and ME2 on PS2....same with other Bioware titles.), and unless the ending 'dlc' materially changes the ending to actual choices (PLEASE for the love of god get RID of the synthesis ending.....how anyone ever thought that made sense in a sci-fi story boggles the mind....unless the AI is really Sandal, then .... maybe?) I won't be preordering anymore Bioware titles, and depending on fan feedback on the boards, may not be buying any more Bioware games at all.

The ending was just that horrible to me, and the way in which Bioware/EA handled their fanbase, and allowed other outlets to treat their fanbase, just really killed all the warm fuzzies I had for Bioware.

Thanks for the ride, but I think it's time for me to get off and go to a different amusement park.

Oh, and Bioware, I'd suggest moving forward that you have players gametest your game, you know.....like how movie theaters will prescreen a movie with a test audience? You need more than just bug checkers, you need an end user QAQC process.

I posted earlier in the forum thanking Bioware for the ride from start til just about the ending. That being said I can't completely disagree with this quote or defend Bioware against it. I dropped alot of money into the series to have it end so...poorly...

Modifié par Lord Barabadin, 11 avril 2012 - 08:24 .

[AmstradHero]

Blazerer wrote...

Adain878 wrote...

No idea if they are still paying attention or have hid themselves in some corner but found this and thought it summed up the situation pretty well.

http://imgur.com/Mtolh

Its a quote from Joss Whedon from his AMA on reddit.

that´´s actually a very nice quote! ty for sharing

The problem is that Mass Effect 3's ending isn't worthy work. It's not artistic. It's not logical. It's not consistent with itself or the rest of the game. It's just trash and dumps popular science fiction themes on the player in the last 5-10 minutes of the game that have been completely absent from the series up until that point. That's not artistic, it's just derivative and sloppy.

The ending might be open to interpretation, but there are so many flaws and holes in the delivery and details that interpretation is pointless.

This is a real shame because it totally undermines the rest of the Mass Effect experience, the vast and overwhelming majority of which was fantastic.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 11 avril 2012 - 08:26 .

[VV00d13]

To extend the ending is just a load of crap!
It won't do! That will explain nothing and be totally illogical!

So sheperd tells normandy, leading the attack, to pick up ALL crew members from earth, to flee through the relay, since it's gonna explode! Ya that's also a point either sheperd says this or how would they know? AND crash on a planet, it would be more logical for Normandy to just float in space if that's the case!...
And in the 'Suicide mission' EVERYONE WAS PREPARED TO DIE FOR YOU! If I were joker or ANY other of sheperds crew I would NEVER LEAVE!
I would be more like 'sorry shep we are not gonna leave, we gonna stay to the end together'
At least hats better then them fleeing.

And the scene were sheperd takes a breath in the end?!
I was a big supporter of indoctrination theory BUT NOW he just falls through the sky? Not to mention that the whole citadel EXPLODED or did the god child just come up say 'hey good choise there destroying he reapers, I'm gonna teleport you back to earth'

And there is 3 endings for a game with the potential for more!!!

To extend this ending is a disaster!! This story that we've played through was a disaster to even start playing if it's gonna end this poorly for 'artistic integrity'
Accapt your mistake!
Put you heads together and work on a PROPER ending!

Seriously I don't care if sheperd dies or not. But a proper ending! That puts the whole story together. Not split it apart even more!

[TsubakiYayoi]

Zeratul12 wrote...

Can we just have the happy ending we all want....

I really thought after the Final Fantasy XIII-2 horrible ending it couldn´t get worse this year. It was a real surprise that Bioware actually managed to top this.
Shepard and all members of all three games deserve an perfect happy ending and at best one that makes sense.

[Kain82]

Since Ea/Bioware are sticking to their 'artistic vision' the only cure to the ending is the indoctrination theory thus continuing the story, through dlc or a new game entirely... until then I'll put bioware products on hold indefinitely.

[Caprea]

Thanatos144 wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...

So you do not expect people to take the things BioWare staff says at face value? Even though they stated there would not be any A/B/B like ending several times over?
What do you expect people to do, instead? Go and say: "Nah, BioWare, we won't believe you 'till we actually see the result."? For god's sake, what do you expect people to think or say or do when they hear things like that time and again?
People normally take what you say at face value. It's the way it works. BioWare purposefully advertised their game (or, more specifically, the ending) a certain way, the fans paid for it and BioWare didn't deliver. Simple as that.

I think if you stop crying about the relays being destroyed and Shepard
dieing you would realize there are several ending in the game....the
whole game is endings. They ended ever story variant and they were at
least two ways they end. .... You are all to  focused on the last
minuets of a game.

Alright, I already figured you'd evade my actual argument and bring up some completely irrelevant points up instead of just replying to what I said... why did I even try.
But anyway, no. You have three choices, yes, but the consequences they cause don't differ from each other at all, save for a couple of minor tweaks here and there. It all boils down to the same in the end: Relays blowing up, Reapers gone, Normandy marooning on some (very convenient, I might add) jungle-like planet. So even though there were repercussions of your very last choice, you don't see them. The player is forced to fill in blanks, nothing is set in stone, it's all just speculation - and that's what pisses people off.

About the actual game being the ending (or, the journey being its own reward) - I agree! I absolutely loved how everything you did in the past two games played out in the third, even the smallest things like banter between your squad mates, whom you brought on what mission, etc. That's why I, for one, still love playing the game.
It doesn't, however, undo the damage that has been done in the ending: Shepard and his/her efforts were rendered meaningless in the last five minutes of the game. Where was the dialogue wheel? Why coldn't we ask all the questions we needed to ask? Why couldn't we just contradict the starchild with his bold thesis (because we proved him wrong!) and tell him to **** off?
BioWare managed to completely dismantle Shepard as a character with that, due to the complete lack of interaction in the end.

Modifié par dea_ex_machina, 11 avril 2012 - 09:44 .

[dogdigus]

TsubakiYayoi wrote...

Zeratul12 wrote...

Can we just have the happy ending we all want....

I really thought after the Final Fantasy XIII-2 horrible ending it couldn´t get worse this year. It was a real surprise that Bioware actually managed to top this.
Shepard and all members of all three games deserve an perfect happy ending and at best one that makes sense.

Yeah I'm with you man. I went from playing FF XII-2 to ME3. What a disappointment. I remember thinking: "wow, the gaming industry is really sinking to a new low here in the interest of dlc." But in retrospect I would have rather had a " ...to be continued" ending than what we got for ME3. I grew up playing video games and the last couple months have really been disappointing. You can't even buy a finished product anymore. They just string you along with carrots for the next purchase.

[Caprea]

tuckbot3 wrote...

I think Bioware needs to realize that we aren't buying in to their "Artistic Integrity" excuse. A lot of people are claiming that Bioware isn't getting the message, but I disagree. I think they've gotten the message, but are hoping this all just blows over so they don't have to admit that they made a mistake.

To be frank, I really do not know what is worse: That BioWare didn't listen at all or that they actually did listen and their reply to their loyal fanbase is: "Screw you, we're not changing ****!"?

[TsubakiYayoi]

dogdigus wrote...

TsubakiYayoi wrote...

Zeratul12 wrote...

Can we just have the happy ending we all want....

I really thought after the Final Fantasy XIII-2 horrible ending it couldn´t get worse this year. It was a real surprise that Bioware actually managed to top this.
Shepard and all members of all three games deserve an perfect happy ending and at best one that makes sense.

Yeah I'm with you man. I went from playing FF XII-2 to ME3. What a disappointment. I remember thinking: "wow, the gaming industry is really sinking to a new low here in the interest of dlc." But in retrospect I would have rather had a " ...to be continued" ending than what we got for ME3. I grew up playing video games and the last couple months have really been disappointing. You can't even buy a finished product anymore. They just string you along with carrots for the next purchase.

I guess the Shepard breathes scene is kind of a "to be continued" thing. XIII-2 is allmost as bad as it kills Serah / Lightning and gives you kick in your nuts by the to be continued cliffhanger and the "perfect" ending isn´t really helpful at all.
The reason why I found the ME3 ending is worse is just because I didn´t expect anything from 13-2 after the lame FF13.
After playing ME1 and ME2 like an addict, counting the days until ME3 release and even taking a week vacation it felt like a punsh from Mike Tyson in your stomach standing in front of Space Child not being able to do anything I want. 

[Theronyll Itholien]

dea_ex_machina wrote...

tuckbot3 wrote...

I think Bioware needs to realize that we aren't buying in to their "Artistic Integrity" excuse. A lot of people are claiming that Bioware isn't getting the message, but I disagree. I think they've gotten the message, but are hoping this all just blows over so they don't have to admit that they made a mistake.

To be frank, I really do not know what is worse: That BioWare didn't listen at all or that they actually did listen and their reply to their loyal fanbase is: "Screw you, we're not changing ****!"?

This.

Its like going to a perfect restaurant. Every course is GREAT, you expect the dessert to be as great. But what you get is a single ball of vanilla icecream just just tastes... wrong. You ask the waiter for a new dessert because this one just isn't right. As it melts when you wait for the waiter to react, the icecream reveals disgusting little things that shouldn't be in there: a pubic hair, piece of snot, and.. what's that? a nail!
You call the waiter. You demand something else! The waiter scoffs at you, obviously insulted. As what seemed to be a mockery, he returns to you later and pours caramel (EC dlc) over the unacceptably disgusting icecream. There you go

You leave the restaurant with a foul mood. You never want to be reminded of that horrible, horible place.

If only they just apologized for their clusterf*ck and gave you a proper dessert...

[VV00d13]

I don't know what to say anymore.
If they would've ended the game 'good' they would've had at least twice as many, if not more, customers that would've bought all the add-ons. As it is now many people will not even bother to look at them....


If it really is EA poking their noses in, at what cost?! Why would they like to destroy the games? Ok if they are owners and sponsor, but to destroy the ending?
More would buy the dlc if they were happy than if they dissapoit their gamers...
For god sake EA own too much to avoid these days...
There are few developers that are good that they haven't bought yet... Or will be when they get popular enough

[Sydeno]

About the "artistic integrity", somebody nearly wrote (maby a lot of people did) that maybe they would be authorised to use this plea if they didn't use tali's face or the last photo (with the boy and his grandfather at the end) that they picked on the web and photoshoped...

And even in this case, a lie is still a lie. They said that we wouldn't have A, B, or C choices in the end, that WE build our own story (almost true, I must admit, except the end) and that every choices made in the past two games would affect the end of the game...
I quote:
"As Mass Effect 3 is the end of a planned trilogy, the developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge, yet also continue the story into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges into widely different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters." - Casey Hudson

Ok let's agree with the fact the last game IS the actual ending that Casey and others were speaking about...

SO... just some examples of questions I'm asking:
In ME3, what is WIDELY different between:
-Killing the Rachni queen and let her live in ME1?
-Choose Anderson or Udina for concelor?
-Choose Ashley, Liara, Tali, Jackor Miranda (don't know about it for FemShep) as love interest in ME 1&2?

If we admit that the entire game is the end that Hudson&CO were talking about, we still don't have the widely different conclusions...
More! We still have A, B and C choices...

Until I have a lot more than three choices, AND until my endings change to something that REALLY depends on my past choices, I will say that : No, I don't have the product I bought... And I totally agree with what has been done by fan community...

[stefanburns]

The thing is if Mass Effect was a movie I wouldn't of minded the ending the only thing that would of annoyed me was the Normandy making a run for it other whys its actually a really good ending because it gets you thinking but it wasn't a movie! and I spent so much time doing everything the way I wanted and it didn't matter that's why i am annoyed whats so wrong with giving me the chose to survive or take down the reapers with a weapon with out so much sacrifice if that's my chose they did it for Mass Effect two I had the chose to keep everyone or let everyone die even Sheapered him self that was brilliant that's the hole reason I loved Mass Effect the fact that I was in charge and controlled the out come bioware need to realize that and Fix it! because the way I see it Mass Effect was as much my story as it is there's because my choces mattered to me!

Modifié par stefanburns, 11 avril 2012 - 11:39 .

[Blazerer]

AmstradHero wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

that´s actually a very nice quote! ty for sharing

The problem is that Mass Effect 3's ending isn't worthy work. It's not artistic. It's not logical. It's not consistent with itself or the rest of the game. It's just trash and dumps popular science fiction themes on the player in the last 5-10 minutes of the game that have been completely absent from the series up until that point. That's not artistic, it's just derivative and sloppy.

The ending might be open to interpretation, but there are so many flaws and holes in the delivery and details that interpretation is pointless.

This is a real shame because it totally undermines the rest of the Mass Effect experience, the vast and overwhelming majority of which was fantastic.

that's what I meant with that still, I guess writing it out does make it a tad more clear. conclusion: change the endings

[stefanburns]

I hope they are still reading this forum everyone is making good points

Modifié par stefanburns, 11 avril 2012 - 11:40 .

[Blazerer]

stefanburns wrote...

I hope they are still reading this forum everyone is making good points

newsflash: they don't and never intended to

Modifié par Blazerer, 11 avril 2012 - 11:43 .

[Archonsg]

You know what, early on like page 20 or so on this thread I think, or was it the other one.. never mind, I said that it was fine if we had a "sad" ending and Shepard dies, but now, FRACK THAT!

Sure, have your sad ending, but have a "WTF?! ending (wait ...we already have that one), have the middle ground ending AND HAVE A HAPPY Ending because why the eff not?

Seriously, all this talk about Shepard dying is fine just lets Bioware off the hook so that they say "okies...so Shepard dies, we just need to "clarify" how he dies.

No.

There are people who are fine with a "wtf?! ending" so they already got that.

What about the rest, I for one would PREFER a happy disney, guy wins day, gets girl, go on to live a fully DESERVED life of peace of soak in the adulation of a whole galaxy of adoring fans.
And why not?
SHEPARD DESERVES IT.

If I wanted depressing, I'd go back to social work, especially working with broken families.
Or just turn on the news and watch young kids get shot while at school.
WE DON'T NEED more depressing ends to heroes or people in a game.

Modifié par Archonsg, 11 avril 2012 - 11:56 .

[Cogneter]

Blazerer wrote...

stefanburns wrote...

I hope they are still reading this forum everyone is making good points

newsflash: they don't and never intended to

Allan Schumacher is the only BioWare employee I see around here, and he's not even on ME team.

[Blazerer]

Cogneter wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

stefanburns wrote...

I hope they are still reading this forum everyone is making good points

newsflash: they don't and never intended to

Allan Schumacher is the only BioWare employee I see around here, and he's not even on ME team.

my point exactly, although I must say that most of the ME team can't be blamed for the ending. the blame for the ending lies ENTIRELY in the hands of the lead designer and Casey Hudson.
http://www.gamesthir...e-stays-silent/

[Archonsg]

Everything is just a PR move.
Buy time.
Let the more vitriolic wear themselves out.
Let the "one timers" post, they don't stick around to be a problem anyways.
Let the more rabid posters repeat themselves till they tire of it.
Let those defending us (there's always some who would) do so.
Let time do its thing.
Put out a shiny new toy
New influx of new victims
Profit.

[Cogneter]

Blazerer wrote...

Cogneter wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

stefanburns wrote...

I hope they are still reading this forum everyone is making good points

newsflash: they don't and never intended to

Allan Schumacher is the only BioWare employee I see around here, and he's not even on ME team.

my point exactly, although I must say that most of the ME team can't be blamed for the ending. the blame for the ending lies ENTIRELY in the hands of the lead designer and Casey Hudson.
http://www.gamesthir...e-stays-silent/

First, Hudson was writing the ending along with Walters.

Second, the team as a whole still decided to take the blame for the actions of those two (except Weekes, perhaps). Though that can be attributed to PR department.

My point: the ending was made by many people (programmers, artists, voice actors) and none have opposed it. And even now we only see feeble attempts of few team members to reassure us that the ending "is not that horrible". So, no, you can't blame the whole thing on one person.

[darkway1]

Blazerer wrote...

Cogneter wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

stefanburns wrote...

I hope they are still reading this forum everyone is making good points

newsflash: they don't and never intended to

Allan Schumacher is the only BioWare employee I see around here, and he's not even on ME team.

my point exactly, although I must say that most of the ME team can't be blamed for the ending. the blame for the ending lies ENTIRELY in the hands of the lead designer and Casey Hudson.
http://www.gamesthir...e-stays-silent/

Any reason why Mr Casey Hudson can't step forward and take full responsibility for the ending??.....maybe explain why other writers were not included in the Mass3 ending????

[J090288]

If they make DLC to help the ending great. please be the same amount as mass effect 2 for replay value.

I think the ending may have more to it? but would have like 16 different ending like i heard the PR people shouted about.

mass effect 2 was hard to top. It technically was a poisoned chalice.

[kessleas]

Knowing I am going to die in the end really does limit my desire to replay the game. What were they thinking? I remember an interview where one of the ME2 team was talking about how many times customers replayed it. I replayed ME2 again and again, bought all the DLC except the appearance packs. I just cannot bring myself to play ME3 again knowing I am going to DIE.

[luci90]

Archonsg wrote...

Everything is just a PR move.

Buy time.

Let the more vitriolic wear themselves out.

Let the "one timers" post, they don't stick around to be a problem anyways.

Let the more rabid posters repeat themselves till they tire of it.

Let those defending us (there's always some who would) do so.

Let time do its thing.

Put out a shiny new toy

New influx of new victims

Profit.

Oh man, I hope they don't jingle some keys in front of us.