23455 réponses à ce sujet

[luci90]

AmstradHero wrote...

@LiarasShield : Please stop reposting the same thing on each page. It's annoying and adds nothing to the discussion. It is also possible that it will be perceived by spam by the moderators and get you banned and/or this thread deleted. I would prefer that the latter didn't happen so BioWare continue to be aware of the gross dissatisfaction of many people with the ending of the game.

It is extremely annoying.

I also wish he/she would use the quote and or edit functions more instead of breaking off into new posts, because then more people might read them and take them seriously.

[AmstradHero]

LiarasShield wrote...

I'm sorry it bothers you but none of you will remember the importance of that post in the next several pages if it doesn't stay there so I'm sorry it bothers you but I'm not gonna do that

I'm sorry, but "the importance of that post" is not as significant as you believe it to be. For one, I'm afraid it's not very well written. I understand you feel it is important, and I commend your dedication, but I'm afraid better arguments have been put forward in a more coherent manner. If you feel you must make sure people are aware of it, just put a link (to one of those posts) in your signature.

This isn't some contest to come up with the "best" reasons why the ending is bad, or to claim glory for the "most important" post. It's about making BioWare aware of the grave displeasure with the ending in a clear, logical and reasoned manner. Posting the same thing over and over again does not serve that cause.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 11 avril 2012 - 02:12 .

[3DandBeyond]

It is hard to answer the original question here since in many ways the series is just brilliant all the way through (until the end).
I love Mordin singing his version of Gilbert and Sullivan-his death and sacrifice touched me.
Thane touched me more than I knew and his death hurt. His dying scene is one example of where the last of the game does not live up to the rest of the series.  I've never played a game before that dealt with a dying friend in such a sensitive manner.
EDI's discussion of her hair with Shepard-when she gets it wet she can't do a thing with it.
Liara's dad.
The romance with Liara.  Another example where the end of ME3 does not live up to the rest of the series (but I think Liara's role in ME2 was really disappointing).  Most other games have dealt with romance in a less sensitive way.
Samara as a whole.
Joker.
There are so many more.  Obviously, it's a lot about the characters.

It's these moments and more where the games just shine and deliver that make me not so much want to dump on EA/Bioware as to try and convince them of their errors. 

And it's ridiculous for it to be a zero sum game.  Synthetics will kill organics.  Always?  Since synthetics are sentient beings with an ability to have "feelings" if EDI is any judge, then they would be able to form better conclusions than it's either us or them or synthesis.  They would find logic in coexistence, just as the Geth (a supposedly lesser form of synthetic than the Reapers) understood the Heretics were a threat.  It makes no sense for an old synthetic-based (organic blend) civilization not to be able to understand co-existence.  Especially if EDI can.  And even Legion was able to put aside his ordained path of destroying the creators in ME2, if only for awhile.  Not to get too far off track, but man this is stuff that people have wanted to believe about humans for a long time-that races can only get along once total assimilation has been achieved.  But, we know that's not true.  Humans always see differences and in differences they often see conflct-so it would be the same with all sentient organic life, even if assimilated into synthetics.  Individual thinking would randomize logical decisions, so synthesis for order makes no sense.  EDI is an example of randomness already "infecting" synthetics.

The only logical choice is co-existence, but it's not an option.  The Reapers seem to suggest that the only course for true sentience and long-lived civilizations is destruction.  Now, that's logical.  The moment organics begin to get smart and even start to try to get along, the Reapers come back.  Odd, that it's always a set interval of 50k years-apparently, all organics "mature" at the same rate.

[xaurabh123]

darkway1 wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...

I couldn't agree more. People who worked their butts off to get the best ending possible should be rewarded. It feels like a slap in the face when you've spent a hell of a lot of time on a game (or trilogy, in this case), tried to do everything right and your Shepard bites the dust, anyway. Makes you wonder why you've put so much effort into keeping everything from escalating, to begin with.
And about the common belief that it makes a story epic and profound to have the hero die - to that I say: Bullsh!t. To say "The hero has to... *insert anything here*" just doesn't make sense in the ME universe where everything's about consequences and repercussions and you build your own destiny.

the actual prepared ending: http://www.oxm.co.uk...before-release/

you know, before casey came and ****ed it up

Thanks for posting the link,you gotta ask yourself,why???.......why retool a perfectly good concept and replace it with some thing that just does not work and when people ask to explain the ending...Bioware just goes silent???...I wish some one from Bioware would stand up and justify such sweeping changes.

Because they have "artistic vision" , u know a s**t that negates everything.
A shortsighted , rushed decision which they call artistic integrity.

[kessleas]

When I was a kid I remember MAD magazine did a spoof on how to write fiction. It went like this. If you cannot think of how to end you story simply do this: "And they all walked out in the the street and got hit by a bus - The End."

[3DandBeyond]

dea_ex_machina wrote...

Archonsg wrote...
<Snip>

What about the rest, I for one would PREFER a happy disney, guy wins day, gets girl, go on to live a fully DESERVED life of peace of soak in the adulation of a whole galaxy of adoring fans.
And why not?
SHEPARD DESERVES IT.

I couldn't agree more. People who worked their butts off to get the best ending possible should be rewarded. It feels like a slap in the face when you've spent a hell of a lot of time on a game (or trilogy, in this case), tried to do everything right and your Shepard bites the dust, anyway. Makes you wonder why you've put so much effort into keeping everything from escalating, to begin with.
And about the common belief that it makes a story epic and profound to have the hero die - to that I say: Bullsh!t. To say "The hero has to... *insert anything here*" just goes against everything in the ME universe where everything's about consequences and repercussions and you build your own destiny.

My feelings exactly.  So what if it's sappy?  So what if they think it makes no sense that this could happen (you know because everything else makes so much sense)?  One possible ending should be the best, really the best outcome.  We didn't work so hard because we wanted Shepard's ashes flung out into space or because we wanted his or her LI to be off alone somewhere.  We did it because we bought into all of it-Shepard was always able to overcome and return to those who loved him.  Always.  What makes a story epic, what made this story epic is that you often did have the choice between life or death.  What makes a story unforgettably epic is the feeling of satisfaction when the screen goes black.  For some, a good death and what it means is that.  For others, life afterward and all the mushy, sappy happiness is that.  We believed we'd get this choice.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 11 avril 2012 - 02:32 .

[darkway1]

xaurabh123 wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

dea_ex_machina wrote...

I couldn't agree more. People who worked their butts off to get the best ending possible should be rewarded. It feels like a slap in the face when you've spent a hell of a lot of time on a game (or trilogy, in this case), tried to do everything right and your Shepard bites the dust, anyway. Makes you wonder why you've put so much effort into keeping everything from escalating, to begin with.
And about the common belief that it makes a story epic and profound to have the hero die - to that I say: Bullsh!t. To say "The hero has to... *insert anything here*" just doesn't make sense in the ME universe where everything's about consequences and repercussions and you build your own destiny.

the actual prepared ending: http://www.oxm.co.uk...before-release/

you know, before casey came and ****ed it up

Thanks for posting the link,you gotta ask yourself,why???.......why retool a perfectly good concept and replace it with some thing that just does not work and when people ask to explain the ending...Bioware just goes silent???...I wish some one from Bioware would stand up and justify such sweeping changes.

Because they have "artistic vision" , u know a s**t that negates everything.
A shortsighted , rushed decision which they call artistic integrity.

Everyone uses the term "artist" as a means to justify whats on offer........keep in mind that a video game is a creative PRODUCT.....meaning it's created to sell,to make money.......you don't make stuff people dont want.

[LiarasShield]

[quote]LiarasShield wrote...


Now, I'm going to push this one step further beyond regular player perspective. The way we control shepard is the way we would probably act in the same situations if we were shepard. From either being a badass who doesn't take **** from anyone or someone who wants to help all they can. So if you think about it we are all commander shepard.
 
And as Commander shepard, from you nearly being destroyed at the citadel by saren and soverign from you getting blasted by the collectors and you and some of your crew die from the blast from you being brought back to life to destroy the collector base wouldn't you want your crew to remain loyal.  

I mean: your crew cared enough for you to run your ass back to the normandy as bullets where flying all around and even help get your ass on board, wouldn't you want your crew to stay by your side as you have worked hard to gather the fleets of several different races?


Wouldn't you want to not destroy the relays or have your crew not abandon you without a second thought? Because they cared at the collector base didn't they.

Wether you live or die wouldn't you want the person who you loved, who has shared your pain and has gone through everything that you have. Wouldn't you want him or her to mourn you or to find a way to be with you again.  

Well, wouldn't you if you can see yourself as shepard and as shepard wouldn't you want that for yourself. Or let me pit it this way: for all the soldiers who have been through several wars and have seen nothing but pain and sorrow, wouldn't you like to settle down with someone to share your pain and your love? I don't want this ending just for shepard I wouldn't want this ending for my self if I was in the same circumstances.   

As shepard I would want to finally find the damn light at the end of the tunnel and as shepard, or if you were shepard, could really accept just giving up or not caring about the people who have been by your side up until the final battle or the final moment? that is something I truly ask you

this is one of the things I'm gonna quote from now on because I feel this is something we should all ask ourselves
[/quote]
[/quote]

[LiarasShield]

and if it is annoying then don't read it again no one is forcing you to keep reading the same post it isn't like I have my hand over your face pressing it to the computer screen if you don't want to keep rereading it then don't ****ing about it won't neccessarily  make me stop

Modifié par LiarasShield, 11 avril 2012 - 02:49 .

[LiarasShield]

I'm going to keep restating my quote each page until this thread is closed if you don't like it then don't read it

[LiarasShield]

That simple really

[LiarasShield]

and I'm going to keep posting so that new people can read it and no I don't have it listed under my signature because anything long under the signature will not let it show up and no I'm not gonna make all sorts of different links the quote will be for other new people or others who haven't read it yet to read it since no one reallys goes hundreds of pages just to read one post

[LiarasShield]

again rage messaging me won't change my stance just like how bioware is sticking with their artistic vision lol

[TsubakiYayoi]

But you really don´t need to post 5 (edit 6) times in a row man. We got the msg.

Modifié par TsubakiYayoi, 11 avril 2012 - 02:59 .

[LiarasShield]

again it will be for the new people to read it no one is making you reread my quote unless you yourself does it

[Benchpress610]

When I finished the game four weeks ago, I remember coming to this forum and thread,  looking for answers, overwhelmed with anguish and confusion, trying to find out what had I done wrong in my play through to so royally screw up my finale. I remember describing my state of mind as feeling EMPTY. Not until I spoke on the phone with a close friend I realized how much this game had affected me. She immediately noticed it in my voice and asked…”What’s wrong with you?...Is everything OK?”...At first I was surprised and then I was embarrassed to admit and explain that I felt depressed because of a dammed video game. To that point I wasn’t aware of how much emotionally invested I was in the Mass Effect universe.
 
It’s been four weeks now. I was hoping against hope that BioWare would stand by its more ardent fans and make things right. From their statements, it is clear by now that they never had anything in the works to turn the ending around and make it into a grand finale. Obviously they were unprepared and caught by surprise by the monumental backlash against the ending. Now they are working in an Extended Cut to provide “clarification” and “closure”. They are adamant about not changing the ending, so no clever twist, no indoc theory, just clarification and closure. I will download the DLC as it’s free to see what they mean by “clarification” and “closure” but, given recent history, I’m not keeping my hopes up. I don’t know if anything BioWare would come up with will erase the disappointment and despair of the moments after I finished the game last month. I think the damage has been done. I’m not emotionally invested in it anymore.
 
I am a pragmatic man, so I’m not gonna seat here and say “I will never buy anything from BioWare again”. Who knows, they might rediscover themselves and come up with something real good in the future. That being said however, one thing is for certain: I will never buy pre-order again, from them or anyone else. I will do what I always did before: wait until the game comes out and check the fan reviews, not the critics, but the fans. Then, if I deem it worth it, I’ll buy the game, probably at a discounted price.
 
Ah… one more thing: Unless they come clean and disclose what really happened that caused the inclusion of that disconnected ending in the game, I will never go anywhere near anything that Mac Walters and/or Casey Hudson are associated with.

Modifié par Benchpress610, 11 avril 2012 - 03:09 .

[LiarasShield]

****ing about it since I only quote it once per page alone is kinda silly again no one is forcing you to reread it you have power over yourself not me if I had power of you I'd make you dance like michael jackson doing the thriller out in public lol

[darkway1]

Benchpress610 wrote...

When I finished the game four weeks ago, I remember coming to this forum and thread,  looking for answers, overwhelmed with anguish and confusion, trying to find out what had I done wrong in my play through to so royally screw up my finale. I remember describing my state of mind as feeling EMPTY. Not until I spoke on the phone with a close friend I realized how much this game had affected me. She immediately noticed it in my voice and asked…”What’s wrong with you?...Is everything OK?”...At first I was surprised and then I was embarrassed to admit and explain that I felt depressed because of a dammed video game. To that point I wasn’t aware of how much emotionally invested I was in the Mass Effect universe.
 
It’s been four weeks now. I was hoping against hope that BioWare would stand by its more ardent fans and make things right. From their statements, it is clear by now that they never had anything in the works to turn the ending around and make it into a grand finale. Obviously they were unprepared and caught by surprise by the monumental backlash against the ending. Now they are working in an Extended Cut to provide “clarification” and “closure”. They are adamant about not changing the ending, so no clever twist, no indoc theory, just clarification and closure. I will download the DLC as it’s free to see what they mean by “clarification” and “closure” but, given recent history, I’m not keeping my hopes up. I don’t know if anything BioWare would come up with will erase the disappointment and despair of the moments after I finished the game last month. I think the damage has been done. I’m not emotionally invested in it anymore.
 
I am a pragmatic man, so I’m not gonna seat here and say “I will never buy anything from BioWare again”. Who knows, they might rediscover themselves and come up with something real good in the future. That being said however, one thing is for certain: I will never buy pre-order again, from them or anyone else. I will do what I always did before: wait until the game comes out and check the fan reviews, not the critics, but the fans. Then, if I deem it worth it, I’ll buy the game, probably at a discounted price.
 
Ah… one more thing: Unless they come clean and disclose what really happened that caused the inclusion of that disconnected ending in the game, I will never go anywhere near anything that Mac Walters and/or Casey Hudson are associated with.

You express exactly how I feel......I don't think Bioware had any real idea how connected people are with this franchise.

[Changer the Elder]

darkway1 wrote...

You express exactly how I feel......I don't think Bioware had any real idea how connected people are with this franchise.

Oh, I don't believe they wouldn't realize that. They're in love with those games even more than we are. They're the ones who built it and invested their heart into both the world and the characters. You cannot create something with this level of detail and with scenes that make you so deeply involved with the characters and their world without being equally passionate about it yourself.

In extension, that's why they defend their story and don't want to change it. They believe in it. If they didn't care, they'd just change it. They know (and even have admitted) the execution isn't perfect and now are trying to set it "right". Giving them a fighting chance sounds fair enough. They gave us unforgettable scenes like The End Run, Fall of Thessia, A Future for the Krogan or The Fleets Arrive. That in exchange for a little faith sounds like a decent deal.

[luci90]

LiarasShield wrote...

****ing about it since I only quote it once per page alone is kinda silly again no one is forcing you to reread it you have power over yourself not me if I had power of you I'd make you dance like michael jackson doing the thriller out in public lol

It's like thanathos's 'good' twin.

If this was any other place, I swear.

Screw it, I'm going to go work the bolt on my 91/30 to calm myself down.

[StillOverrated]

@Changer: I wouldn't put the end run as 'unforgettable'. The final goodbyes? Yes. The End Run? ...Not so much. It just didn't feel nearly as tense as the suicide mission. Eh. Maybe that's also a matter of opinion but during the suicide mission I was all "oh[oops!]oh[sorry!]oh[haha no]! Did I make the right decision?! [Keep of PG]! Should have gone with Legion on the vents! Agh! Gooddamn Collectors pieces of [think of the children!]! [Cee Lo Green] off, you bunch of [Not on this post]!!" and during the Final Run I was more like "Oh, come on! Banshees again?! That's just cheap! Wait a minute! I was all the way on the other side*! How did it grab me and-- OH BULL[still no]!! [Critical Mission Failure]"
*This was an actual thing that happened. I had Shep at least five feet away from the Banshee and and I somehow just got the grabbins' animation and Shep got killed. To this day I don't know how or why it happened.

[darkway1]

Changer the Elder wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

You express exactly how I feel......I don't think Bioware had any real idea how connected people are with this franchise.

Oh, I don't believe they wouldn't realize that. They're in love with those games even more than we are. They're the ones who built it and invested their heart into both the world and the characters. You cannot create something with this level of detail and with scenes that make you so deeply involved with the characters and their world without being equally passionate about it yourself.

In extension, that's why they defend their story and don't want to change it. They believe in it. If they didn't care, they'd just change it. They know (and even have admitted) the execution isn't perfect and now are trying to set it "right". Giving them a fighting chance sounds fair enough. They gave us unforgettable scenes like The End Run, Fall of Thessia, A Future for the Krogan or The Fleets Arrive. That in exchange for a little faith sounds like a decent deal.

You know....most people here in this forum are on the same wave lengh,even the crazy people.......but the ending was done wrong.....it's not about a good ending or bad or how clever it is or closure.....it just seems slapped together............it just does not reflect the work Bioware has done.

[LiarasShield]

luci90 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

****ing about it since I only quote it once per page alone is kinda silly again no one is forcing you to reread it you have power over yourself not me if I had power of you I'd make you dance like michael jackson doing the thriller out in public lol

It's like thanathos's 'good' twin.

If this was any other place, I swear.

Screw it, I'm going to go work the bolt on my 91/30 to calm myself down.

simple point love and getting upset about it isn't really neccessary and thanatos just can't really see the flaws of the game that much but I do hope the extended dlc will fix some of the issues

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

AN IDEA!! Are we sure this is the last adventire of Shepard? I know they said that, but maybe they are lying there too...

[LiarasShield]

well if they do make a mass effect 4 and it is a sequel not a prequel then they could continue off the good destroy ending shepard finds a way to reunite with his or her crew on the jungle planet while mowing down any reminenet mercenaries or reapers that could be standing in his or her way or who knows if you had wreav be the leader instead of wrex maybe you'd have to stop the krogan from conquering the whole galaxy the list goes on and on lol