23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Questref]

I think getting bogged down in the minutiae is deflecting debate from the real issues here:
1. Why is ME3 much smaller in scope and content than the previous games? (Could I cynically suggest it might have something to do with a plan to generate more revenue from DLC?)
2. Why are the story arcs and NPC interactions so much shallower than in previous ME games? (Were there deadline / cost / budget issues)?
3. Why does the ending bear so little relation to what has gone before and why is it so full of logical errors and plot holes? (Is this just another case of budget & timing issues or is there an element of 'let's see what we can get away with here'?)
4. Why - after claiming to be listening to fans' [i.e. the REAL critics] complaints & issues with the game - are Bioware only providing 'clarification' of the ending(s) rather than a fix? And let's be honest, 'artistic integrity' is just a really poor excuse that doesn't fool anyone and the fans deserve better. The overwhelming majority of fan issues with the ending related to how bad it was NOT just how incomprehensible it seemed - in effect, Bioware has been told the engine doesn't work on their vehicle and, as a result, is offering a free re-spray! Were they REALLY listening or have they developed selective deafness?


The real shame is that I absolutely loved the ME series but now can't even bring myself to think about replaying any of them - what's the point if my decisions ultimately make no difference? And I've completely lost faith & trust in Bioware. I bought every piece of DLC for the ME and DA games and was happy to pay. But I won't even be downloading free DLC until ME3 is fixed. And DA:3 won't be welcome on my PC either. As more than 660 pages of complaints on here hasn't got Bioware to listen, maybe a complete boycott of EA & Bioware products and services will get the message across. It won't really hurt me as they no longer have anything I want as I don't trust them to deliver any more.
I'd encourage everyone else who feels the same way to join the boycott so that it has a bigger impact on the EA bottom line.
I hope Bioware will listen. And I hope they'll change their stance. Because we all know they're capable of delivering a superb and fitting finale to the greatest gaming space opera ever produced.
But if they don't, to quote Galaxy Quest: Never give up. Never surrender.
There are other games companies out there who'd like my money...
Hold the Line.

[No_MSG]

noivoieidoi wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

I'd like to reiterate that when I say "I don't get it" I don't mean I don't understand it. I understand what happened,

I want to walk away the minute the Deus Ex Machina says it created the Reapers. I don't need to hear anything after that. .

"I control the Reapers. They are my solution" - Commander Catalyst of the invasion force

Obviously, you don't get it and don't understand it 

What I don't get is the thought process behind those endings, and why they are so special to fight for. And I don't want that explained, either.

Oh, that explains a lot.... Don't worry, the same goes for most of the true and loyal fans.

Hah hah, you're totally right.  I had to listen to Deus Ex Machina again, but you're right.  He's even WORSE than before.  If he didn't create the Reapers, then he just took them over and forced them to commit genocide every 50,000 years.  Holy crap, I really want to listen to this guy now.

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

Ok... Maybe i'm wrong because i was following PAX live (by tweets) and nobody said nothing about this, so I don't know is this is true... Anybody heard something about this??

[jeweledleah]

<--skeptic. "its more then a few cinematics is not the same as "extra gameplay and more ending options"

space magic is still there, neutering the reapers by turning them into patsies is still there. Bitter without the sweet is still there.

lesser evil is still evil.

[darky00]

Despite the ending, the game in itself is not like Mass Effect was all about, it's totally attractive for hardcore TPS shooter players, where you just run, take cover, shoot, clear path to follow, remind me Gears of War mechanisms. And jeez, i played multi, you can feel it's full of guys that don't give a **** about the trilogy, they come from Battlefield, COD or Gears of War. Quite fun at first, getting boring after few games, one mode ain't enough to be convincing. They should have more focus to the real structure of the game (dialogs, quests, and jeez more than the Citadel to visit..), than add this multi full of trolls and unrespectful players.

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

Hey everybody!!!! THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!

I've just read an articcle that says that the extended dlc will have personalization depending on how you ended the game and what choices you've made, and they are not going to be only cinematics! It was said at Penny Arcade Expo by Mike Gamble.

I share the link, but it is in spanish.
http://www.eurogamer...n-a-los-finales

Good news at least!

Anyone who heard something about this?? 

[wryterra]

I have a request for the extended cut.

Having heard Jennifer Hale's recitation of the line, I really, really want the "Not everything I've done is something to be proud of," line during Shepard's conversation with Anderson to be restored and used for all endings. Or at least, all Renegade endings.

It doesn't have to be about being a role model to children, it's just such a potent acknowledgement of self.

[No_MSG]

darky00 wrote...

Despite the ending, the game in itself is not like Mass Effect was all about, it's totally attractive for hardcore TPS shooter players, where you just run, take cover, shoot, clear path to follow, remind me Gears of War mechanisms. And jeez, i played multi, you can feel it's full of guys that don't give a **** about the trilogy, they come from Battlefield, COD or Gears of War. Quite fun at first, getting boring after few games, one mode ain't enough to be convincing. They should have more focus to the real structure of the game (dialogs, quests, and jeez more than the Citadel to visit..), than add this multi full of trolls and unrespectful players.

Now, to be fair, the combat sequences are much more fun to play.  And making things more fun is not a bad thing.  And I don't think I had anyone rage quitting in multi-player, even if the team was doing poorly.

Still, I agree, they really left the non-combat aspect out in the dirt.

[3DandBeyond]

LiarasShield wrote...

****ing about it since I only quote it once per page alone is kinda silly again no one is forcing you to reread it you have power over yourself not me if I had power of you I'd make you dance like michael jackson doing the thriller out in public lol

I am sorry.  But, also continuously posting the exact same thing may have the opposite effect of what you seem to intend to have happen.  First, it may cause the game's devs to simply say we are all a bunch of idiots so why try?  It may also mean they might decide to shut this thread down considering it to be counter-productive.

I'm not intending to offend you here, but you are preaching to the choir.  Most people posting here want changes are aren't happy with the announcement about the extended cut-no ending changes and all.  We tend to agree on a lot of points, so repeating posts over and over again is like hitting us over the head.  All it does is make people not want to read what you have to say.  That includes EA, Bioware, the writers, and us.  Please, it's spam and most forums lock topics due to spam and arguments about it.

I will say the fact that they are even attempting to communicate with fans does seem promising.  And, although we all feel they may let us down, it's possible that patience will pay off.  That doesn't mean stop posting, stop complaining.  But, say some other things too.

But, I do agree that I want something more than cutscenes showing what happened. 

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 11 avril 2012 - 10:22 .

[Changer the Elder]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

Anyone who heard something about this?? 

Yes, I have. It means you're going to hate it anyway, because you're going to get "just more cutscenes" and "clarification meaning the fans are seen as dumb".

Just to put you in perspective - the often scoffed "clarification" means the endings will most probably largely differ to reflect each and every... or at least most major decisions you've made for the game. It's going to be a big picture. Big picture made of little pictures. It's going to <enhance> the endings in more ways than one.

That's what, at least from how I understand it from PAX panel and original talks, understand "clarification". And that's why I find it a bit... shortsighted to disregard it completely.

But I suppose that as long as Catalyst remains, a lot of you will still want a head served on a silver plating, anyway...

[darkway1]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

Hey everybody!!!! THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!

I've just read an articcle that says that the extended dlc will have personalization depending on how you ended the game and what choices you've made, and they are not going to be only cinematics! It was said at Penny Arcade Expo by Mike Gamble.

I share the link, but it is in spanish.
http://www.eurogamer...n-a-los-finales

Good news at least!

Anyone who heard something about this?? 

First,many thx for posting......second,now this is what I'm talking about......Bioware needs to nuke this idea if it's false.....or it will build up peoples hopes and Bioware will once agin feel the backlash.

[Voodoo2015]

Come on BW give us what you promised.
For your artistic endings are not what you promise.
To explain a lie is just like saying you'r fans are stupid and don't get it.

We get it.
But BW do you?

Listen to your fans who played these great games for 5 years.

Hold The Line

[Theronyll Itholien]

"Look at those lifeless losers still posting in that thread!"
"You mean the 'Yes, we are listening' thread?"
"Haha, yes!"
"Whaha they are still crying about Shepard dying?"
"Haha I think so! Its not like I'm reading their tears!"
"LOL haha! Still crying even after we announced the EC.."
"I know, right?"

- BioWare

[StillOverrated]

Changer the Elder wrote...

But I suppose that as long as Catalyst remains, a lot of you will still want a head served on a silver plating, anyway...

Come on, guys! Can't we all just get along? [/high on something]

Modifié par StillOverrated, 11 avril 2012 - 10:20 .

[alfiejr]

lament.ballad wrote...

The ending feels incomplete, best case scenario is (someone I assume is) Shepard taking a breath, and then it cuts to the credits. It is as if Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows would have ended after "He was lying face down on the ground again." (page 580, start of The Flaw in the Plan). After everything Shepard's been through, don't you think (s)he deserves the option for a happy ending, and a reunion with her/his love interest? Mass Effect 3 is a game, give us a chance to win.

With the destruction of the mass relays, we also destroyed galactic civilization as we know it. Even if the relays doesn't react like the Alpha Relay, travelling between clusters will become very difficult. Will the quarians in the Sol system ever see Rannoch again? What about all the other races? Please let the mass relays stay, and not just in the Control ending.

The Starchild's logic doesn't make any sense, it creates synthetics to kill us with, before we create synthetics that will kill us? The quarians and the geth are finally getting along, and (unfortunately) so are EDI and Joker (he's mine, EDI). Also, why is Shepard just listening to it? It created the reapers, it's the enemy, and Shepard just agrees with what it is saying, and does what it tells her/him. There should be an option to say no to it, a winning option. I hope the indoctrination theory is correct, in that case the right choice is Destroy. I just hope I didn't kill the geth and EDI.

And what happened to Joker? After Thessia he confessed that he feels guilty about Shepard's death, why would he just abandon her/him in the end after kidnapping my squadmates? And them being stranded on some random planet without hope of ever getting away isn't a happy ending. Give us an ending that makes us want to play through the trilogy again, not an ending that just makes us think "What's the point?".

I also have a suggestion not related to the ending; there are two love interests for a straight female Shepard in ME3; Garrus and Kaidan, while there are six for a straight male: Miranda, Tali, Jack, Ashley, Liara and Diana Allers. I suggest that you add Joker and possibly James as love interests in order to even out the numbers a little bit.

On a side note, happy Shepard's -142nd birthday, everybody!

This I support 

[3DandBeyond]

Lament put it very well.  I too agree with all of that post.

I still believe that in some way Bioware should be flattered that people cared enough about these games to want a better ending and to tell them about it.

Look at what happens with a lot of games. The whole game can suck compared to the original in a series and the devs could care less. They don't change anything.

People wanting something different in the way the game ended and what it all meant just means the games were that good.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 11 avril 2012 - 10:30 .

[mbpd1066]

I finished the single player game about a month ago and haven't touched it since. I think my massive disappointment with the writing of the last five minutes of the game was heightened by the compelling and immersive world created in the majority of the rest of the three games. Bioware did a great job, especially in the majority of this last game of creating memorable scenes.

My gripe isn't that it's not a happy ending, at least not in the sense that Shepard had to survive, though it would have been great to have some kind of ending where that would be possible. I see three distinct categories of problem with the ending. I know others have said most of these before, but since Bioware says that they're listening, I'll share my perspective so that they know at least one more person has put thought into this...

Internal Consistency Problems
- destruction of relays = destruction of each solar system
- Normandy fleeing w/ squadmates from earth
- no connection with why the collectors were building a human reaper (which actually was pretty dumb in itself, but willing to overlook that), and yet every other big reaper looks the same.

I'm thinking that the extended cut will solve at least these issues, but they aren't the whole problem with the ending by a long shot -- though clarifying how the galaxy isn't totally destroyed no matter what you do is a good start.

storytelling problems
- the bulk of the gameplay in the third game is rendered meaningless by the ending. All of the fetch quests don't seem to do much to help the earth (mostly crispy or totally crispy), they affect nothing on the citadel, and the efforts to make peace between synthetics and organics are rendered completely moot by the three choices at the end.
- the ending is a surprise twist, but in a negative way. It honestly felt like the ending to Monty Python's Holy Grail.

Philosophical/artistic objections (my own perspective)
- ending the series in a way that destroyed every civilization and spaceflight between worlds really kills one of the real motives to want to play the game again. In Lord of the Rings, the scouring of the shire was a wake up call that things would not be the same, nor would the hero be able to completely return home (at least not for long) -- but there was a sense of something bigger at work for good, hope amidst loss. Sorry, but a few Normandy survivors crashing and a couple of humans generations later who kind of remember Shepard but still don't have contact with anyone outside their solar system -- why should I care what happens next?

I know that people say there were so many variables, how could they have brought it together? Well, I know that at least one person made a great flow-chart of possible endings that took into account all kinds of choices and levels of play. The indoctrination theory is probably the best thing to come out of all this, though I'm sure it'll be undone by the extended cut.

I don't feel entitled to have everything my way -- but that's not an excuse for telling a story badly, especially when it's done in the context of a game where it gives the impression of collaboration on how the story unfolds, and giving choices that actually matter.

Will be extremely hesitant to buy another BW game, and not planning on buying any DLC for this series; after all - if my choices don't matter, who cares about adding to Shepard's legend...

[garytwine]

[quote]LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

[quote]LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

Hey everybody!!!! THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!

I've just read an articcle that says that the extended dlc will have personalization depending on how you ended the game and what choices you've made, and they are not going to be only cinematics! It was said at Penny Arcade Expo by Mike Gamble.

I share the link, but it is in spanish.
http://www.eurogamer...n-a-los-finales

Good news at least!
[/quote]

Anyone who heard something about this??
 [/quote]



http://www.ibtimes.c...-east-panel.htm



Yup, heres a link to the PAX East Biiware panel videos. Video 2 talks specifically about the extended cut.

[/quote]

Modifié par garytwine, 11 avril 2012 - 10:54 .

[Pelle6666]

Please Bioware! Reconsider changing the ending!

The things you would have to change are not many! First of all the reasoning behind the reapers attack and harvesting of organics needs to be improved, the Catalyst makes no sense at all and Shepard doesn't even say a word about Geth and quarrians or Ede and Joker.
Secondly we want more choice, three options witch makes little to no sense at all is simply not enough. And the fact that control and synthesis so closely resembles what the illusive man and Saren was trying to do earlier in the series. Why not give us the option to overwrite or destroy the reaper code without having to commit genocide on the geth?
Thirdly, I know that the destruction of the relays doesn't necessarily mean that the races of the galaxy are stuck and isolated from the all the rest, but this is not explained at all! The stargazer scene rather tells us that space travel is now a thing of the passed! We need to know that the characters we cared for are not stuck on some planet for the rest of their lives and that the galactic society doesn't die out after the ending of ME3.
Finally we need to know that what we did earlier mattered. Show us the fleet in action at the end, let us see Wrex and his soldiers fight on the streets of London, let us see the mercenary groups take part of the battle!
I don't think that you would have to go far out of your way to make the expended cut a really good dlc, but what I've heard so far the effort is underwhelming. We need more than closure through cinematics, we need dialog and choices!

So please, please, please, Bioware, make the ending of this game just as fantastic as the rest of the series. 99.9 % of Mass Effect 3 was brilliant and I loved every second of it but after witnessing the ending I only felt disappointed and a bit angry. I'm no expert but I am pretty sure that is not how a player should feel after completing an epic sci-fi trilogy.

[Archonsg]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

Hey everybody!!!! THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!

I've just read an articcle that says that the extended dlc will have personalization depending on how you ended the game and what choices you've made, and they are not going to be only cinematics! It was said at Penny Arcade Expo by Mike Gamble.

I share the link, but it is in spanish.
http://www.eurogamer...n-a-los-finales

Good news at least!

Anyone who heard something about this?? 

Shepard still dies. Joker still ran away. Your Love Interest still leaves you on the battlefield broken while he or she was evacuated miraculously whole and healthy. Relays are still destroyed. Shockwave that downs the Normandy will still down every other vessel of like size and mass. Everyone is still fracked.

Oh wait. The Normandy still somehow make an out of FTL crash landing, re- entry into an oxygen present atmosphere on an uncharted planet where your love interest.

Perfect.

No new endings, no change as stated officially, just clarification as to why and how all this happens.

Modifié par Archonsg, 11 avril 2012 - 11:04 .

[EugeneBi]

darky00 wrote...

Despite the ending, the game in itself is not like Mass Effect was all about, it's totally attractive for hardcore TPS shooter players, where you just run, take cover, shoot, clear path to follow, remind me Gears of War mechanisms. And jeez, i played multi, you can feel it's full of guys that don't give a **** about the trilogy, they come from Battlefield, COD or Gears of War. Quite fun at first, getting boring after few games, one mode ain't enough to be convincing. They should have more focus to the real structure of the game (dialogs, quests, and jeez more than the Citadel to visit..), than add this multi full of trolls and unrespectful players.

Cool down. This is their new target audience, new fanbase they are trying to build. We are not welcome anymore, just move on.

[LiarasShield]

[quote]LiarasShield wrote...

Now, I'm going to push this one step further beyond regular player perspective. The way we control shepard is the way we would probably act in the same situations if we were shepard. From either being a badass who doesn't take **** from anyone or someone who wants to help all they can. So if you think about it we are all commander shepard.
 
And as Commander shepard, from you nearly being destroyed at the citadel by saren and soverign from you getting blasted by the collectors and you and some of your crew die from the blast from you being brought back to life to destroy the collector base wouldn't you want your crew to remain loyal.  

I mean: your crew cared enough for you to run your ass back to the normandy as bullets where flying all around and even help get your ass on board, wouldn't you want your crew to stay by your side as you have worked hard to gather the fleets of several different races?


Wouldn't you want to not destroy the relays or have your crew not abandon you without a second thought? Because they cared at the collector base didn't they.

Wether you live or die wouldn't you want the person who you loved, who has shared your pain and has gone through everything that you have. Wouldn't you want him or her to mourn you or to find a way to be with you again.  

Well, wouldn't you if you can see yourself as shepard and as shepard wouldn't you want that for yourself. Or let me pit it this way: for all the soldiers who have been through several wars and have seen nothing but pain and sorrow, wouldn't you like to settle down with someone to share your pain and your love? I don't want this ending just for shepard I wouldn't want this ending for my self if I was in the same circumstances.   

As shepard I would want to finally find the damn light at the end of the tunnel and as shepard, or if you were shepard, could really accept just giving up or not caring about the people who have been by your side up until the final battle or the final moment? that is something I truly ask you

this is one of the things I'm gonna quote from now on because I feel this is something we should all ask ourselves
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[LiarasShield]

by the way big picture made of little pictures nice mordin reference change ^^

[LiarasShield]

by the way anyone who shot mordin is a **** lol

[wolfwarp]

I love the ending. It is a risky move from BioWare and I hope BioWare does stand its ground and don't change it at all.

It is an open ending that encourage discussion. People can form their interpretation and debate upon it. This is good.

I happen to love the indoctrination theory and I think BioWare is brilliant in getting players fooled by complying to the Reaper. Whatever extended cut you make, please leave the original art form intact. Thanks.