23455 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

Wizardry series.  I cheated-I had to google that since I wasn't familiar with it.


It just seems someone was dreaming at the end in this game-either Shepard or the writers.

3 basic choices that some child could have come up with are not artistic.

Not everyone would have to make this choice, but I'd like the LoTR, Star Wars, Independence Day, kind of ending as a possibility. Not with a forced reunion of everyone at the end, but even a scene with the hero (my Shepard) alive reuniting with a love interest and others.

I also want better choices or more of a rationale for them. My Shepard would always choose to destroy. It only makes sense or the sacrifices that have gone before mean nothing. Given the choices. Shepard always questions the lack of individualism in the Geth, the lack of individual choice that other races seem to promote, in every "decision". Miranda, a totally fabricated person grows because of Shepard's intervention. Of course, so do the Geth and it's this that even brings peace between the Geth and Quarians. So, synthesis, assimilation can't ever be a real option.

Control does not defeat the reapers. Since Shepard has always had one goal, to defeat them, control is not an option.

Other choices along the way might lead to some slight differences in Shepard-the way Shepard sees things. It seems like it would make more sense if at the end Shepard didn't have a choice. It's almost like at that point, (S)he would just react based upon everything that led to that point. It's like the choices were put there simply so people could replay the "end". Maybe you always have a choice, but really Shepard was bloodied and broken, acting on adrenaline and pure will at that point.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 12 avril 2012 - 03:53 .

[LiarasShield]

only time will tell if things will get better or worse...

[LiarasShield]

Space magic coming to a universe near you jk lol

[Changer the Elder]

jeweledleah wrote...

on explosion of the relays. (becasue I don't feel like quoting a reply and I want spellcheck to work)

1. there are NO survivors from arrival. the game specificaly states that. batarian you meet o na Citadel - KNEW people from that system. he was not IN the system at the time of explosion.

I didn't have Balak in mind, but I do remember the game saying that there were some people who survived the initial explosion, but being cut off, they ended up being Reaper-fodder almost immediately. I'll look for actual quotes/text evidence on my next playthrough.

2. there's no real difference between explosion of, say, nuclear reactor that was caused by external damage vs internal overload.

case in point. Chernobyl. Fukushima. first was caused by internal overload, second was caused by external structural damage. both were devastating.

Actually, as I recall, both were caused by the same reason - the plants not being able to keep their coolant systems up to the reactors being trigger-happy by design. When you cannot cool the rods enough, they will meltdown and release radiation. And considering how hot the thing is, melting through the floor/containers and causing other things to explode is not really that surprising. I could compare using the core technology (nuclear) as Fukushima vs. Hiroshima. There's a definite difference between having an irradiated zone and barren wasteland.
And there's a difference between, again, stoning the relay and forcibly breaking it and using it as a conduit for a different kind of energy which it's merely not built or able to contain.

at a minimum, if they are going with (they overloaded but didn't really explode) - they would have to redo the cinematic to reflect that. at this time, pieces are flying everywhere and shockwave starts. JUST like in arrival.

Those weren't explosions of mass relays themselves, that was the energy of presumably a completely different origin (no one says that the energy released by the Citadel is in fact a mass-effect-core-ish blast) spreading from its broken container.

[LiarasShield]

well change so far all we have is more speculation added onto more speculation we have no true facts until the extended dlc comes out and show us what is really right and what is wrong....

[LiarasShield]

still bioware please listen to everyone instead of selected groups I know you could find a way to please all the fans if you really want to I just hope that somewhere you will feel the need to....

[Changer the Elder]

LiarasShield wrote...

well change so far all we have is more speculation added onto more speculation we have no true facts until the extended dlc comes out and show us what is really right and what is wrong....

Well, of course it is just speculation on my part. It might be proven wrong in the end, either by my incorrect premise or by being supplemented by an explanation completely different.
But as long as I can find a way for things to work, I cannot really say there's no way for them to work. That would be illogical.

[LiarasShield]

yes but until we have true news from the horses mouth then we have nothing really to go on besides millions of hypothesis and what if scenarios

[jeweledleah]

Changer the Elder wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

on explosion of the relays. (becasue I don't feel like quoting a reply and I want spellcheck to work)

1. there are NO survivors from arrival. the game specificaly states that. batarian you meet o na Citadel - KNEW people from that system. he was not IN the system at the time of explosion.

I didn't have Balak in mind, but I do remember the game saying that there were some people who survived the initial explosion, but being cut off, they ended up being Reaper-fodder almost immediately. I'll look for actual quotes/text evidence on my next playthrough.

2. there's no real difference between explosion of, say, nuclear reactor that was caused by external damage vs internal overload.

case in point. Chernobyl. Fukushima. first was caused by internal overload, second was caused by external structural damage. both were devastating.

Actually, as I recall, both were caused by the same reason - the plants not being able to keep their coolant systems up to the reactors being trigger-happy by design. When you cannot cool the rods enough, they will meltdown and release radiation. And considering how hot the thing is, melting through the floor/containers and causing other things to explode is not really that surprising. I could compare using the core technology (nuclear) as Fukushima vs. Hiroshima. There's a definite difference between having an irradiated zone and barren wasteland.
And there's a difference between, again, stoning the relay and forcibly breaking it and using it as a conduit for a different kind of energy which it's merely not built or able to contain.

at a minimum, if they are going with (they overloaded but didn't really explode) - they would have to redo the cinematic to reflect that. at this time, pieces are flying everywhere and shockwave starts. JUST like in arrival.

Those weren't explosions of mass relays themselves, that was the energy of presumably a completely different origin (no one says that the energy released by the Citadel is in fact a mass-effect-core-ish blast) spreading from its broken container.

I wasn't talking about Balak either, I was talking about the terrorist you find who wants you to take him off life support.  when you play arrival, EDI specificaly states that there are no sirvivors when you are watching shockwave spread through the system.  moreover - with relay exploded, Reapers never made it into that system in a first place.  unless they retconed this in ME3, that is >_>  I woudln't put it past them, they pretty much hand waved the keepers purpose from ME1.

as for explosion of Fukushima, it was doing just fine, until earthquake damaged it.

lastly - there are two shockwaves that are shown in the cinematics.  one is the shockwave created by the crucible.  that is the shockwave that spreads across earth.  then crucible shoots the beam of energy to the relay that starts spinning wildly.. and then explodes, sending out another shockwave.

they WERE probably going for the rule of cool there, lets make something awesome and impressive looking.  forgetting (or not knowing, I woudln't be surprised if animators are not lore nerds), what happens when reay explodes like that.  I mean why not reuse some of the animations from arrival, with their flying debree?  reusing assets is pretty common in bioware games, they have stated as much, when people noticed that Hawke and Shepard like to have their drinks exactly the same way.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 12 avril 2012 - 04:23 .

[sdinc009]

"If you feel that your investment was properly returned in the poor quality of the ending of Mass Effect 3, then I will happily sell you a car a friend of mine has. The gas gauge doesn't work, so I drew you one in crayon. The speedometer is stuck, so I put in a chalkboard so you can write in how fast you think you are going (Speculation for everyone!). If you don't like it, in 3 months I'll draw you a gas gauge in magic marker and upgrade your chalkboard to a Lite-Brite. "

[LiarasShield]

none that really give me any satisfaction anyway and if the extended good destroy ending proves that it was indoctrination during all of the third game does that mean me4 or a dlc expansion to actually finish the fight with the reapers that we thought we finished in our mind who knows still all the waiting is making me antsy

Modifié par LiarasShield, 12 avril 2012 - 04:23 .

[LiarasShield]

Cause I mean it is more plausible for shepard to have been hit by the beam or knocked out while the rest of the stuff takes place in his or her mind cause somehow living through the crucible being destroyed or entering atmosphere reentry shields or not the likely hood of shepard survivng a crash of that magnitude is pretty much zero but then hey look again at the begining of me2 our body went through atmospheric rentry and severe brain damaged yet our cells were able to be put back together and be completely or mostly rejuvenated

[adhoc9000]

I really don't how you fix the problems in the ending without scrapping it and starting over. With the extended cut you are tellin gus you are giving us more clarity and closure for a more personal experience. I wish you luck with that because i do not see how you can do that when the mass relays have been destroyed. Everybody important to the story is on Earth and the normandy crashes on a random planet which somehow has all of you squadmates aboard. where can you possibly go with that? You need to go back and redo the whole Priority:Earth mission.
Movies change or give alternate endings all of the time and nobody thinks twice about. It does not ruin your artistic integrity if you change the ending. admit you messed up and redeem yoursevles.
Thanks for listening

Modifié par adhoc9000, 12 avril 2012 - 04:31 .

[LiarasShield]

so who knows shepards just may be that lucky....

Modifié par LiarasShield, 12 avril 2012 - 04:31 .

[Changer the Elder]

jeweledleah wrote...

I wasn't talking about Balak either, I was talking about the terrorist you find who wants you to take him off life support.  when you play arrival, EDI specificaly states that there are no sirvivors when you are watching shockwave spread through the system.  moreover - with relay exploded, Reapers never made it into that system in a first place.  unless they retconed this in ME3, that is >_>  I woudln't put it past them, they pretty much hand waved the keepers purpose from ME1.

I'm watching the ending to Arrival just now and EDI doesn't say anything when I'm watching the shockwaves. Hackett mentions "destroying an entire batarian system", true. Then again, when you lock someone up in a room with no oxygen, you consider them a casualty, no matter whether they're alive or not when a fire starts in said room.
"Reapers hit batarians first" is stated very early on in ME3, as the Cannibals being present from the very start of the game are obvious consequence of.

as for explosion of Fukushima, it was doing just fine, until earthquake damaged it.

Yes, just as Chernobyl was doing just fine until a human/hardware error. The earthquake made the plant's system unable to cool themselves. That's why it took some time from the quake to meltdown to occur - the people at the plant were bending their backs to try everything humanly possible to keep it cooled down, even going so far as making the plant inoperable by flooding the compartments with sea water. But I don't think this is a discussion about nuclear technology.

lastly - there are two shockwaves that are shown in the cinematics.  one is the shockwave created by the crucible.  that is the shockwave that spreads across earth.  then crucible shoots the beam of energy to the relay that starts spinning wildly.. and then explodes, sending out another shockwave.

If that were the case and the mass relay "explosions" were really mass relays going supernova, there's no reason for those explosions to be "conveniently color coded" the way the beam is.
Plus, if you watch the relay explode in the ending of Arrival, it's not the same animation (nowhere near the same, Arrival is an actual supernova) as the ME3 endings.

[LiarasShield]

again only extended will show if either one of you are right....

[LiarasShield]

hmm but I do hope the good destroy ending will go with the indoctrination theory....

[Jassu1979]

Changer the Elder wrote...

I'm watching the ending to Arrival just now and EDI doesn't say anything when I'm watching the shockwaves. Hackett mentions "destroying an entire batarian system", true. Then again, when you lock someone up in a room with no oxygen, you consider them a casualty, no matter whether they're alive or not when a fire starts in said room.
"Reapers hit batarians first" is stated very early on in ME3, as the Cannibals being present from the very start of the game are obvious consequence of.

The system destroyed by the exploding mass relay was *A* batarian system - a relatively small colony with 300,000 inhabitants, in fact.
The Reapers initially attacked the batarians, but not via the alpha relay, and not via the system that had been completely wiped out.

Fun fact: a supernova is so powerful that even adjoining star systems that are dozens of light years away can be destroyed.

[Changer the Elder]

Jassu1979 wrote...

The system destroyed by the exploding mass relay was *A* batarian system - a relatively small colony with 300,000 inhabitants, in fact.
The Reapers initially attacked the batarians, but not via the alpha relay, and not via the system that had been completely wiped out.

In that case, you're probably right about the alpha relay system, I spoke too soon. I'll try to find out where did I find the mention of someone surviving the initial blast though. I still do think that was mentioned at some point, but of course, without proper evidence, it might very well be my memory going all swiss-cheesey on me again.
Still, it doesn't prove in any way that the endings were in fact relays going supernova. As I said, even the animations are different.

Fun fact: a supernova is so powerful that even adjoining star systems that are dozens of light years away can be destroyed.

Fun fact: It depends on the size/constitution of the star going supernova as well as the size/parameters of the star system itself. The word "can be destroyed" is a bit crucial here.

[jeweledleah]

Changer the Elder wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I wasn't talking about Balak either, I was talking about the terrorist you find who wants you to take him off life support.  when you play arrival, EDI specificaly states that there are no sirvivors when you are watching shockwave spread through the system.  moreover - with relay exploded, Reapers never made it into that system in a first place.  unless they retconed this in ME3, that is >_>  I woudln't put it past them, they pretty much hand waved the keepers purpose from ME1.

I'm watching the ending to Arrival just now and EDI doesn't say anything when I'm watching the shockwaves. Hackett mentions "destroying an entire batarian system", true. Then again, when you lock someone up in a room with no oxygen, you consider them a casualty, no matter whether they're alive or not when a fire starts in said room.
"Reapers hit batarians first" is stated very early on in ME3, as the Cannibals being present from the very start of the game are obvious consequence of.

as for explosion of Fukushima, it was doing just fine, until earthquake damaged it.

Yes, just as Chernobyl was doing just fine until a human/hardware error. The earthquake made the plant's system unable to cool themselves. That's why it took some time from the quake to meltdown to occur - the people at the plant were bending their backs to try everything humanly possible to keep it cooled down, even going so far as making the plant inoperable by flooding the compartments with sea water. But I don't think this is a discussion about nuclear technology.

lastly - there are two shockwaves that are shown in the cinematics.  one is the shockwave created by the crucible.  that is the shockwave that spreads across earth.  then crucible shoots the beam of energy to the relay that starts spinning wildly.. and then explodes, sending out another shockwave.

If that were the case and the mass relay "explosions" were really mass relays going supernova, there's no reason for those explosions to be "conveniently color coded" the way the beam is.
Plus, if you watch the relay explode in the ending of Arrival, it's not the same animation (nowhere near the same, Arrival is an actual supernova) as the ME3 endings.

about Chernobil and Fukishima - was kinda my point you know.  they still went boom in very similar ways, even thought the catalyst for that was different.

I'm going to be playing arrival soon on my last ME2 Shepard, so I'm going to double check, (sadly I don't have any saves close to the ending, so my only option is to replay entire DLC), but I distinctly remember someone or something there mentioning that THAT system?  was completely wiped out.

as for colorcoding for our convenicence?  like I said.  they used the rule of cool, without thinking about implications their reusing of that particular asset would create.

[LiarasShield]

well hopefully sony will let us join the operations soon so god damn tired of us not being able to participate U-U

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

LittleBlueChildrenNow wrote...

Changer the Elder wrote...

LittleBlueChildrenNow: There is no "right" or "wrong" ending. In all of them, you have to sacrifice something at the expense of something else. And your scales are going to slide based on your own ideas and your own choices made during the game (i.e. if you hate the geth, you're obviously going to be less torn about them getting torched in the Destroy ending)
But I personally went with Control.

That makes me think (I've already thought about this, but I'm doing it again) The control choice was in blue (like if it was the right choice) but during the game you were fighting TIM and Cerberus, because they wanted to control the reapers. The destroy option was in red. 
Maybe the colours are representations of the continuation of he game. I mean if you choose blue means that you can continue in the next game with the ME universe, but obviously without Shepard. If you choose red, you can't continue with the ME universe but Shepard survives. 

What do you think?

I love the geth, but I can't just watch my Shepard dying after all. 

[Changer the Elder]

[quote]jeweledleah wrote...

about Chernobil and Fukishima - was kinda my point you know.  they still went boom in very similar ways, even thought the catalyst for that was different.[/quote]
But the point is, despite different impulses, the cause for both was ultimately the same - coolant system breakdown, leading to the inevitable meltdown.

[quote]I'm going to be playing arrival soon on my last ME2 Shepard, so I'm going to double check, (sadly I don't have any saves close to the ending, so my only option is to replay entire DLC), but I distinctly remember someone or something there mentioning that THAT system?  was completely wiped out.[/quote]
A conveniently placed video here: 
And yeah, you might be very well right about that system being totally wiped/fatally damaged by the blast out in the end. I still need to figure out where did I read about someone somehow surviving though, so I might get back on track on that.

[quote]as for colorcoding for our convenicence?  like I said.  they used the rule of cool, without thinking about implications their reusing of that particular asset would create.[/quote]
Problem is, the blast wasn't just differently colored each time, it looked different in basic shape and function from the Alpha relay explosion.

[/quote]

[LiarasShield]

change it just seems like you want to keep coming up with thousands of different explanations when they only really gave us different colored explosions supposedly with each having a different purpose but when you look at even more theirs only two different cutscences besides the good destroy ending with the humans not getting vaporized but it is either the reapers leave or get destroyed narrowing it down even further again until the extended dlc I think we should not keep trying to hypothesize a illogical ending to try to make it logical until it actually becomes logical

[mikeloeven]

How about an ending that lets the series go on for a 4'th title with a whole new galaxy threatening enemy. the whole revelation about the prothians being a totalitarian empire left me with the idea. what if the reapers actually had a citadel in several other galaxies and went around harvesting all the other galaxies when they arent busy raping the milky way. what if there was another race who had managed to advanced beyond the reapers technology and repel them by force from their galaxy. the reapers than deactivated the citadel relay in that galaxy to prevent their destruction. shepard finds out that the citadel and the othere like it are actually intergalactic relays. shepard manages to reactivate the lost relay and convince the aliens to help rid the galaxy of reapers. but SURPRISE after the reapers are gone they all of a sudden want our Land Resources and Women. plus any able bodied young men as a slave labor force in the EZO MINES MUAHAHAHAHA. basically the reapers get replaced by a more traditional enemy for the next me story arc

Modifié par mikeloeven, 12 avril 2012 - 05:25 .