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[improperdancing]

Thanatos144 wrote...

Linksys17 wrote...

You and Liara: (wake up) was that all just a dream

EA Reaper: ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL OF YOUR FINANCES

If EA is so evil wehy did you buy ME3????????????? Maybe one day when you grow up you will realize that money is a good thing cause with it you can eat

I bought Mass Effect 3 because BioWare, prior to Dragon Age II, had a stellar track record for making great games that lived up to all of their promises.  Like most people here, I take a company's past into account when I decide to support them.  If they have a reputation for making great products and always delivering on their promises, I will support them until that's no longer the case.

Sadly, that is now the case with BioWare.  They are now operating under the EA corporate culture, and that will sadly lead to more broken promises, gradually declining game quality, and an eventual liquidization.  I will also no longer be buying any BioWare products so long as the Mass Effect 3 ending remains unchanged.

LiarasShield wrote...

we were owed a extended cut simply
because they didn't fufill they're original promise from the start
despite some of us wanting a different ending and or closure

Technically if we're basing this on BioWare's pre-release promises, we're not owed an extended cut.  We're owed an entire new damn ending that actually makes sense, follows naturally from the narrative, and makes our choices throughout the trilogy actually matter.

Modifié par improperdancing, 13 avril 2012 - 12:14 .

[luci90]

GIEV DIZ PEEPHOLE AEYR wrote...

I just want to take a moment to say thanks to all you folks for stickin by your guns and letting your voices be heard during this debacle. You are a truely loyal fanbase and i'm proud to be in this fight with you. If they think this whole thing will just blow over and be forgotten, whether or not an extended cut makes sense out of all this senselessness, they have another thing coming.

HOLD THE LINE!!!!

I agree with this.


It's been a pleasure thus far to be with this many people from all corners of the world saying HEY WAIT JUST A MINIUTE, THIS IS WRONG AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

[hoodaticus]

Jassu1979 wrote...

Best example: the mass relay explosions. There's nothing in the game to suggest that these are any different from the cataclysmic destruction we saw in "the Arrival". No hint, no suggestion, nothing. For all that we know, these *are* supernova-level explosions, ripping apart every single civilization in the galaxy.
To say that these are somehow different is mere speculation that cannot be substantiated by anything we saw or read in the game, and is only carried by people's desire for less dire consequences.

Now, contrast this with the clues and arguments that have gone into supporting the Indoctrination theory, and you see the difference between blind assertions/rationalization and a concise argument based on the interpretation of textual clues. That's not to say that the IT is any more correct than the assertion that the relays did not destroy the galaxy - but at the very least, it is founded on something that can be found in the text/game.

This.

In science, a theory is considered to be truth if it has more explanatory power than all other theories.  Indoctrination explains EVERYTHING;

The current ending - where the Citadel is alive and controls the reapers - CONTRADICTS THE ENTIRETY OF MASS EFFECT 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the Citadel is alive, it can control itself.  It doesn't need a Reaper to fly in and flip a switch, as it is ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY STATED in the first game that the Keepers respond ONLY to the commands of the Citadel itself.  And we've seen keepers flip switches.

The Reapers would have invaded on schedule in Mass Effect 1 if the Citadel controlled the reapers.

This ending DESTROYED the artistic integrity of the entire series.  Someone should be fired.

[No_MSG]

Blazerer wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

EugeneBi wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

Son of a... Mass Effect 1, Kepler Verge, Newton system, planet Klencory. Eccentric Volus billionaire is seeking the "lost crypts of beings of light." These entities were supposedly created at the dawn of time to protect organic life from synthetic "machine devils."

I guess the ending actually is foreshadowed. Granted, Deus Ex Machina is still more of a villain than anyone else in the series.

I think "machine devils" = Reapers, not this synthetic vs. organic conflict nonsense that starchild mumbles about.

for the last time: the ending we got was NOT, i repeat NOT IN ANY WAY, foreshadowed. how do I know? it was never supposed to be this ending.

http://www.oxm.co.uk...before-release/
^the actual ending

Except that that ending was canned long before release, and also sucked.  Although, I do like a mix of both endings.  Originally, Reapers were trying to save the galaxy from Dark Matter, until Deus Ex Machina took them over, and began forcing them to exterminate organics every 50,000 years as part of his solution.  Then the player kills Deus Ex Machina, and all the reapers die.  Dark Matter is still an issue, but no one cares, because the Reapers are gone, and you can have another game focusing on that.

this ending was still to be the ending when the lead writer left after ME2, so how can this ending have been foreshadowed.

Personally, I like the heavy choice that must be made. sacrificing an entire civilisation or save them, and possibly doom the universe.

The ending was foreshadowed with the quote I just gave you.  Whether or not that was the intention, it still foreshadows beings from light saving the galaxy from synthetics.

To me, Dark Matter still suffers from two of the current endings major flaws.  
1.  Reapers are easily explained.  "We are beyond your comprehension" is a pretty far cry from "We are saving you from Dark Matter."
2.  Reapers are the good guys all along.  It's a lame twist, and always unsatisfying.

Although, there is no Deus Ex Machina, so its got that going for it.

[Blazerer]

No_MSG wrote...

The ending was foreshadowed with the quote I just gave you.  Whether or not that was the intention, it still foreshadows beings from light saving the galaxy from synthetics.

To me, Dark Matter still suffers from two of the current endings major flaws.  
1.  Reapers are easily explained.  "We are beyond your comprehension" is a pretty far cry from "We are saving you from Dark Matter."
2.  Reapers are the good guys all along.  It's a lame twist, and always unsatisfying.

Although, there is no Deus Ex Machina, so its got that going for it.

the good guys? that was what this ending was all about. do you label them 'bad guys' because of the methods they used, o do the ends justify the means? I don't say the ending is perfect, it is however way better than our current ending

as for the foreshadowing, let me rephrase: There was never any intention to foreshadow that which was not planned. any coincidental similarities are just that, and can be nothing more than the wish being father of the thought.

Modifié par Blazerer, 13 avril 2012 - 12:42 .

[kalikilic]

LiarasShield wrote...

No matter what you tell thanatos he either can't see the problems or they don't bother him in either case it just isn't good to argue with him since it will get us no where lol

a man who is blind to everything is knowledgeable of nothing.

[EugeneBi]

hoodaticus wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

Best example: the mass relay explosions. There's nothing in the game to suggest that these are any different from the cataclysmic destruction we saw in "the Arrival". No hint, no suggestion, nothing. For all that we know, these *are* supernova-level explosions, ripping apart every single civilization in the galaxy.
To say that these are somehow different is mere speculation that cannot be substantiated by anything we saw or read in the game, and is only carried by people's desire for less dire consequences.

Now, contrast this with the clues and arguments that have gone into supporting the Indoctrination theory, and you see the difference between blind assertions/rationalization and a concise argument based on the interpretation of textual clues. That's not to say that the IT is any more correct than the assertion that the relays did not destroy the galaxy - but at the very least, it is founded on something that can be found in the text/game.

This.

In science, a theory is considered to be truth if it has more explanatory power than all other theories.  Indoctrination explains EVERYTHING;

The current ending - where the Citadel is alive and controls the reapers - CONTRADICTS THE ENTIRETY OF MASS EFFECT 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the Citadel is alive, it can control itself.  It doesn't need a Reaper to fly in and flip a switch, as it is ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY STATED in the first game that the Keepers respond ONLY to the commands of the Citadel itself.  And we've seen keepers flip switches.

The Reapers would have invaded on schedule in Mass Effect 1 if the Citadel controlled the reapers.

This ending DESTROYED the artistic integrity of the entire series.  Someone should be fired.

Indoctrination Theory ad absurdum: 10 years old Shepard wakes up in his/her bed in the morning and mom tells him/her: "Wake up, it's time to go to school!". Everything were a dream - including ME1, etc. All the plotholes explained, hurrah!

[ShepardTheHopeful]

You're not listening or you would've bothered to talk to us about any of this over a month ago. What do you guys expect if you tell us nothing to patiently wait and not come up with our own thoughts and opinions? We're not husks we're people quit acting like the damn starchild and give us human interaction.

[AwefulShot]

hoodaticus wrote...


In science, a theory is considered to be truth if it has more explanatory power than all other theories. 

Er, no.  The truth never enters into it, that is the realm of philospy not science.

[hoodaticus]

EugeneBi wrote...

Indoctrination Theory ad absurdum: 10 years old Shepard wakes up in his/her bed in the morning and mom tells him/her: "Wake up, it's time to go to school!". Everything were a dream - including ME1, etc. All the plotholes explained, hurrah!

The plot of Mass Effect 1 was that of a lone reaper trying to reach the Citadel so he could flip a switch and bring in all his Reaper buddies.

If the Citadel is alive - as you Enders claim - then it would have self-activated in Mass Effect 1, and therefore ME2 and ME3 never happened.  The only logical explanation for that paradox is that the ending we have now never happened.

[hoodaticus]

AwefulShot wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...


In science, a theory is considered to be truth if it has more explanatory power than all other theories. 

Er, no.  The truth never enters into it, that is the realm of philospy not science.

Refuting that preposterous statement of yours is just too easy.  Science exists for the entire purpose of making and proving truth claims about explanations for phenomena.

The notion that the Earth is the center of the solar system - and everything revolves around us - is every bit as mathematically valid as a helio-centric system.  What makes it false is that the solar-centric view is mathematically simpler and has more predictive power.

I can count two paradoxes created by the current ending that cannot be solved except by hallucination/dream/indoctrination: first, the circular motive for the Reapers' activities, and second, the impossiblity that ME1 (and therefore, ME2 and ME3) could have happened if the Citadel controls the reapers.

The current ending is outright impossible.  Indoctrination Theory explains infinitely more than the current ending, since the current ending - if true - refutes ME1 and ME2 and means that the reapers would have already invaded years earlier, therefore refuting ME3 and the ending itself.

The ending is self-refuting.  It's false.

[hoodaticus]

Put another way - either Shepard was indoctrinated for the entire series up until the very instant he met Justin Beiber's fairy god-self, or he became indoctrinated a few minutes before it. Which explanation does more violence to the artistic integrity of the series?

[graden_2003]

I'm not sure i really believe that we're being heard, or in the very least, my particular voice matters. This existing 'ending' literally kills the excitement for the entire series for me and I can't motivate myself to play through a 2nd time... It makes no sense or little sense, and is the perfect example of deus ex machina.... Which is widely accepted and understood as shotty story telling.

BioWare's storytelling used to be amazing. Their older games were incredible and vivid and drew me into their universes and into gaming in general as well... But recently what they call "artistic integrity" has given them these blank checks to royally mess things up. In particular this thing that is supposed to conclude and give Shepard a final and fitting farewell, where there is frankly, no real choice.

You die, the mass relay's are destroyed (effectively destroying life as known, and how the heck are all the races on earth making it home if there is enough space magic to prevent Arrival scale destruction?). Who controls synthetics if you die? Why do the geth have to die if you destroy synthetics?

And why must synthetics merge with organics? And why does this guardian Catalyst appear at the end with all the answers, without having really any answers. And why can't Shepard still live? I mean honestly, what demands his death? And if everything is destroyed, how have any of my decisions really mattered in the end? These games about choice now amount to a hamlet style hopelessness-- fate will be the same no matter what...

It literally has made me feel that every hour (EVERY hour) was pointlessly spent in playing these games...

And the sad part is, it's not just Mass Effect... Dragon Age 2 for example... And how they tried to tie KOTR 1 and 2 in with The Old Republic-- it feels rushed, fake, devoid of the life their stories once had. Honestly, the awesome story telling can still be there. Most of the moments even in Mass Effect 3 show that. But when everything is on the line, is nobody even testing these things by the fans? Is nobody even asking somebody else in the office "Does this work? Do you like this? How could we better do this?"

Is the janitor writing for bioware now? That may be out of line, but I'm not very creative-- and while i wouldn't second guess a single moment until being beamed to the citadel, and perhaps even until after that last encounter with TIM-- EVERY moment after that was crazy and reminiscent of stories i'd write as an elementary student.

All the conflict and efforts and allies don't matter in the end because... I said so. And I've been really hoping there was a solution to this problem. We live in an awesome time where media is easily changed, upgraded and expanded (look at DLC and patches!). But after reading the most recent news that 'artistic integrity' means the ending can't change, i realized that this monster that used to feel like was OUR monster, is just yours. My feelings and desires in this doesn't seem to matter.

BioWare seems to fallen pretty far from grace... And I think I'm done. I'm not going to preorder another Bioware game. I'm not sure I'm ever going to buy a new one for that matter... And honestly, just how small my voice as a consumer and a loyal fan to the company feels, really makes me even reevalute if the way the genre is going is enough to say it's time mothball gaming in general...

But i'm not going anywhere immediately. I'm going to watch this unfold. There is still the chance this can be pulled off. I respect artistic integrity, but I do feel that this story over the years has been co-opted by the fans as well, and we should be heard and recognized for as much. We're not saying change everything, just this final culmination of years and hundreds of hours (that even we have invested time and money in). This thing called the ending,

Modifié par graden_2003, 13 avril 2012 - 01:39 .

[Gemini1179]

graden_2003 wrote...

But i'm not going anywhere immediately. I'm going to watch this unfold. There is still the chance this can be pulled off. I respect artistic integrity, but I do feel that this story over the years has been co-opted by the fans as well, and we should be heard and recognized for as much. We're not saying change everything, just this culmination of years and hundreds of hours (that even we have invested time and money in.)

Didn't want to take up all kinds of space quoting your whole post, but it describes how I feel exactly. Thank you for putting it into words.

[pipemaster9000]

EugeneBi wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

Best example: the mass relay explosions. There's nothing in the game to suggest that these are any different from the cataclysmic destruction we saw in "the Arrival". No hint, no suggestion, nothing. For all that we know, these *are* supernova-level explosions, ripping apart every single civilization in the galaxy.
To say that these are somehow different is mere speculation that cannot be substantiated by anything we saw or read in the game, and is only carried by people's desire for less dire consequences.

Now, contrast this with the clues and arguments that have gone into supporting the Indoctrination theory, and you see the difference between blind assertions/rationalization and a concise argument based on the interpretation of textual clues. That's not to say that the IT is any more correct than the assertion that the relays did not destroy the galaxy - but at the very least, it is founded on something that can be found in the text/game.

This.

In science, a theory is considered to be truth if it has more explanatory power than all other theories.  Indoctrination explains EVERYTHING;

The current ending - where the Citadel is alive and controls the reapers - CONTRADICTS THE ENTIRETY OF MASS EFFECT 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the Citadel is alive, it can control itself.  It doesn't need a Reaper to fly in and flip a switch, as it is ABSOLUTELY CLEARLY STATED in the first game that the Keepers respond ONLY to the commands of the Citadel itself.  And we've seen keepers flip switches.

The Reapers would have invaded on schedule in Mass Effect 1 if the Citadel controlled the reapers.

This ending DESTROYED the artistic integrity of the entire series.  Someone should be fired.

Indoctrination Theory ad absurdum: 10 years old Shepard wakes up in his/her bed in the morning and mom tells him/her: "Wake up, it's time to go to school!". Everything were a dream - including ME1, etc. All the plotholes explained, hurrah!

False ^ Indoctrination is explained via Codex IN-GAME. This "absurdum" would be saying he had reaper contact at 10. At that age he would be useless to the reapers and his brain/body would not be able to handle the affects of Indoctrination. Why doesn't anyone listen to the codex's???

[AGogley]

[q]But i'm not going anywhere immediately. I'm going to watch this unfold. There is still the chance this can be pulled off. I respect artistic integrity, but I do feel that this story over the years has been co-opted by the fans as well, and we should be heard and recognized for as much. We're not saying change everything, just this final culmination of years and hundreds of hours (that even we have invested time and money in). This thing called the ending,[/q]

I'm not going to quote the whole thing either, but this is also how I feel.  Mass Effect the series was ruined and this artistic integrity junk has left me with a very bitter taste towards Bioware.

[Holger1405]

Blazerer wrote...

Space-jesus clearly stated: this will also kill you, as you are partially synthetic. Shepard is a hybrid due to his reconstruction by cerberus. If anything, Shepard is a cyborg.

No it doesn’t, on the contrary, it clearly stated that Shepard is Organic. Have I to make it thick to understand?

Blazerer wrote...
secondly, and apparantly I have to make this thick to understand: there is no pulse that can simply target reapers and geth and synthetic implants, BUT NOT ANYTHING ELSE ELECTRONICAL. That is impossible by default. Either the destruction pulse is an EMP, or it's broken and if it IS an EMP, then everyone in the universe is now dead.

See, that’s what I mean. In a universe, so much is impossible by default, you pick a specific part that is impossible by default, because it’s backing your rejection of the endings and then, used it as an argument.
Sorry, but this is not a scientific fact whatsoever, not in a since fiction Game. It's just your opinion. 

[InLoveWithTaliZorah]

LiarasShield wrote...

you do gotta feel sorry for tali fans though you guys didn't deserve the photoshop thing U-u

Yeah...  ;(
I would have only been annoyed if they had done a badly photoshopped image but one that we could actually see. The sun in the background prevented us from seeing most of Tali's face. That, and the fact that we could only look at it for about 2 seconds got me angry.

[Halconen]

I'm hoping when they said they were 'clarifying' the ending they meant getting rid of the shimmering god-child-thing

[iDeevil]

The truth is, we don't know what these extended endings will have and if people *politely* - although politeness seems to have gone out the window in some cases - suggest that we need more than clarification and maybe additional endings/gameplay/options count they can work on that.

[STONEWALLJ]

Clearing up the endings is a must; however, I found myself more upset over the treatment (or lack thereof) of the ME2 squadmates. Particularly the LI's... As part of the "clarifications", can we get some kind of closure with our ME2 LI's? Not some hologram thing and a (currently) empty promise that my Shepard made to poor Miranda to find her that ... She was my favorite characters and she deserves a better ending!

Aaaand maybe let her stay on the Normandy after she clears up her family problems? That would be awesome. :innocent:

Modifié par STONEWALLJ, 13 avril 2012 - 03:49 .

[Mandalorian9]

I rather like the Indoctrination theory , Bioware should use it instead of polishing the turd.

[Mandalorian9]

STONEWALLJ wrote...

Clearing up the endings is a must; however, I found myself more upset over the treatment (or lack thereof) of the ME2 squadmates. Particularly the LI's... As part of the "clarifications", can we get some kind of closure with our ME2 LI's? Not some hologram thing and a (currently) empty promise that my Shepard made to poor Miranda to find her that ... She was my favorite characters and she deserves a better ending!

Aaaand maybe let her stay on the Normandy after she clears up her family problems? That would be awesome. :innocent:

I think connecting us to these characters as they did in ME2 only to give them cameos in 3 was disapointing as well. I was very much looking foward to having Miranda on my team again, but instead they put Ashley back on...I'll gladly swap for Miranda :happy:

[Andy the Black]

Mandalorian9 wrote...

STONEWALLJ wrote...

Clearing up the endings is a must; however, I found myself more upset over the treatment (or lack thereof) of the ME2 squadmates. Particularly the LI's... As part of the "clarifications", can we get some kind of closure with our ME2 LI's? Not some hologram thing and a (currently) empty promise that my Shepard made to poor Miranda to find her that ... She was my favorite characters and she deserves a better ending!

Aaaand maybe let her stay on the Normandy after she clears up her family problems? That would be awesome. :innocent:

I think connecting us to these characters as they did in ME2 only to give them cameos in 3 was disapointing as well. I was very much looking foward to having Miranda on my team again, but instead they put Ashley back on...I'll gladly swap for Miranda :happy:

Even though I love having the majority of my ME1 team back it would have been nice to have the option to have Miranda/Jack/Jacob/Grunt and so on on the team. I would of especially liked a bit of scuff up between Liara and Miranda over the XO office.