23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Jassu1979]

garytwine wrote...


Hmmm, but what if BW do a complete 180%, actually prove that after ME3 they are listening to the fans and make ME4 something that surpasses any title they've created. If you hear good word of mouth would you still disregard the game for the sake of principle or go down the 'forgive but not forget' route?

If they do not fix the ending properly, ME4 will be permanently blighted by what came before - just like ME1 and ME2:

Many people cannot bring themselves to replay these games now, after having finished ME3. And I can see why they feel that way. After seeing how absolutely inconsequential our choices were to the ending, both in the context of this game and in relation to the entire series, it simply feels pointless. And seeing just what the great explanation for the reapers is permanently robs them of their menace.

What's the point of pursuing a love interest throughout three games when all you get for it is the charred remains of the hero, and a LI that's stranded on some faraway planet?
What's the point of brokering a peace between the quarians and the geth when they will either be fused into a single species via space magic anyway, or else be obliterated (in the case of the geth)?
What's the point of regaining Tali's homeworld if she'll be stranded at the other end of the galaxy, more than decades away with conventional FTL-drives (provided that such distances can be covered at all)?


I can only compare this to the debacle that were the Star Wars prequels, all of which permanently stained some of my fondest childhood memories.
The force will never be the same now that George Lucas has introduced us to "midichlorians". Darth Vader will never be the same now that we've been exposed to Jack Lloyd and Hayden Christensen. Yoda will never be the same now that we've seen him hopping around.

ME4 could be the best game ever, and yet it would still be tainted by this ending.

[darkway1]

As no one wants to replay Mass3 due to the doomsday loop ending,everyone will have nothing else to do other than play MASS multiplayer.........Bioware will look at the data and think.......wow,PEOPLE LOVE MULTIPLAYER,maybe we should make Mass4 a straight up multiplayer shooter............NNNNNNNNNNNNNNoooooooooooooo.

[T.Attwood]

I have just completed Mass Effect 3, and I wanted to write a few words regarding my thoughts on the ending.

I have played and enjoyed the whole ME series since it was released, so I was very much looking forward to playing ME3 and seeing its conclusion. Seeing the development and following the stories of each of the characters over the years has been brilliant. My particular favourite was the conclusion of the Geth/Quarian questline and getting Tali's homeworld back. Bioware are obviously talented at creating likeable characters and the quality of writing puts their games at the forefront of story-driven games. Unfortunately, this presents the development staff with the following problems;
   1. Being on the cutting edge means they are more likely to make mistakes, as there are few other companies to learn from.
   2. As a developer, they are likely to have a different perspective on their creations, and (for example) perhaps have less affinity with the characters, compared to the game-playing public. To get an idea what I mean by this, notice that you will tend to have less respect for things you create personally, compared to things you have bought or created by others.

Perhaps this is why they took the decision to end ME3 in the way it has been, and why it has caused so much controversy. Personally, I would have loved to have seen Shepard survive, defeat the Reapers and finally get the chance to return to his LI and start a life away from pain and suffering. The Geth/Quarian conflict and EDI, has proven that organics and synthetics can evolve and live without conflict. Instead, this proof is ignored and Shepard is then forced into a choice between death, certain death, and merging with a machine and then death. His LI gets trapped on an unknown planet and never knows the fate of Shepard. Also, there is no way to communicate with other races, or travel between planets any more.

I think the most painful part, is that you know the characters will never see each other again, and the loss of contact means they will never know what has happened to Shepard, and will forever be apart.

The 'Stargazer' part at the end of the credits was interesting (nice to hear 'Buzz Aldrin' in a game), but in my view it didn't work as an ending because the player has followed the ME games over many years and sees Shepard as 'existing in the present'. The Stargazer part puts all the players experiences into an 'ancient legend', which detaches the player from their experience of the game, and this destroys its credibility. 

The game wants you to care about these characters, and when you do, the ending lined up for them makes you feel terrible. I play games to feel good and escape into an imaginary world. When that world beings to bite back, I'm not sure if I want to go back there...

Hopefully, the coming DLC in the summer will address some of these problems.

[GIEV DIZ PEEPHOLE AEYR]

ME4? hmmmm. BW would have to really impress me to get me to buy into a new trilogy. we'll see after summer gets here. if this "explanation" dlc makes the ending stomachable then maybe we'll see.

god 'amighty, i have never in all my years as a gamer seen such a massive clusterf%$ of an ending.

Thank you Shepard, but our ending is in another DLC.

you know its bad when the ending to Metroid is better.
"Pray for a true peace in space."

still praying fellas.....

[AkaXan]

garytwine wrote...

kiyomizu wrote...

Theronyll Itholien wrote...

Mass Effect 4 is a lie.

I truly hope it is. I am done with the ME universe. Knowing that it can have any kind of retarded Deus Ex Machina around each corner, under the excuse "reaper tech is too advanced for us to understand", completely annihilated that universe for me (shepard style).

I have little doubt ME4 is in the pipeline and the RGB ending was meant to shoehorn us into something.  It will be interesting to see how badly sales of ME4 (and other future ME content) are affected given the many people (myself included) who share your sentiment.

Hmmm, but what if BW do a complete 180%, actually prove that after ME3 they are listening to the fans and make ME4 something that surpasses any title they've created. If you hear good word of mouth would you still disregard the game for the sake of principle or go down the 'forgive but not forget' route?

Problem is the damage is done, I can post numerous inteveiws with Casy, Dr Muzuka lieing about how player choices matter and that to do anything like an A.B, C ending is not only disingenous to the fans, but is totally against what ME is. All those promises were made right upto the games drop date, knowing full well what they did to the ending. They lied, to paint it any other way, is denial.

Bioware has shown that they dont give a damn about what genuine fans think, given that they clearly havent listend to any of the well reasond thoughts and solutions fans have posted about how the endings ruin the series and kill any reason to play them again or buy any future DLC when player choice is strippited away. Fans even tried to show ways out and save a series they clearly have a lot of love for, but Bioware just hold the company line that alls good and that the fans just dont get it and oh its all about artistic integrity.
Biware killed Mass Effects main reason to play the series, player choice and as a result they killed any reason to buy new ME3 DLC, because whats the point when it changes affects nothing and the player still gets railroaded into those awful ABC endings, where their time and effort means nothing.

Bioware could make ME4 a much better game and tell all their fans that the have listend, but the damage is done both to the ME brand and Biowares rep. Whos going to buy into a new ME game, with its possible DLC and then invest thier time into the world and its characters, knowing that Bioware will happily throw out their own games lore, logic and player interaction at any momment they want and then lie and condisend to their fans/customers.

I know I dont trust anyone who has lied to me epecially when their main goal is to get me to buy their products. Bioware have show they will lie to get sales, thats a problem, because when Bioware start talking about thier new game and all the great things it dose and how the player really defines the experiance and outcome, whos going to put up their money on Biowares word.

Modifié par AkaXan, 13 avril 2012 - 01:30 .

[VV00d13]

Jassu1979 wrote...

We could use a little humour in here:

Shepard's reaction to the ending

and

The Reapers explain their motivation

THIS was AMUSING! xD All se reapers point!

darkway1 wrote...

As no one wants to replay Mass3 due to
the doomsday loop ending,everyone will have nothing else to do other
than play MASS multiplayer.........Bioware will look at the data and
think.......wow,PEOPLE LOVE MULTIPLAYER,maybe we should make Mass4 a
straight up multiplayer
shooter............NNNNNNNNNNNNNNoooooooooooooo.

You nail a feeling here, in middle of ME3 I was like "ye I will problably replay ME1-2" after the doomsday ending I'm not touching it until they re do it...

[StElmo]

Makes no sense!

[LiarasShield]

yeah me2 was awesome the lair of the shadow broker was so endearing and amazing it is really hard to believe that the people who made such great dlc and a great ending for mass effect 2 where your actions dictated your success in the suicide mission good just magically drop the ball in the last 5 or 10 minutes I just don't understand and for this powerful triliogy the destination is as important as the journey because it is suppose to incorporate everything you did along that journey to get to a destination

[LiarasShield]

that and shepard would never submit he or she would always try to find a way or fight to the bitter end to just submit or give up like that isn't like shepard and back to joker he would never really abandon I mean in me 1 and 2 he stayed by your side during the confrontation with soverign and the collector base as you were getting shot at yet he waited to pick you up and drive away as the base exploded

I can't really swallow why'd he'd make such a flip abandoning the fleets inspace and abandoning shepard when joker has never done that before so yes joker and shepard took major wtf character choices that I don't think they would ever really make

Modifié par LiarasShield, 13 avril 2012 - 02:09 .

[LiarasShield]

and boo all you mordin killers lol

[Voodoo2015]

For them and BW still think it's a good end and that they are different, very different.
When we were promised various endings.



Yeah wow, how different they are and all of my choices that I made they really played a big part for the endings.

You have made it congrats BW.

Modifié par Voodoo2015, 13 avril 2012 - 02:50 .

[sdinc009]

darkway1 wrote...

As no one wants to replay Mass3 due to the doomsday loop ending,everyone will have nothing else to do other than play MASS multiplayer.........Bioware will look at the data and think.......wow,PEOPLE LOVE MULTIPLAYER,maybe we should make Mass4 a straight up multiplayer shooter............NNNNNNNNNNNNNNoooooooooooooo.

Unfortunately, it's been a couple weeks since I've gotten my soul raped by the ending and I still can't bring my self to play this game. The Resurgence DLC is free and I still can't bring my self to download it or play multiplayer

[TheBlackRose]

I still can't stop laughing at the title of this thread.

[T.Attwood]

sdinc009 wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

As no one wants to replay Mass3 due to the doomsday loop ending,everyone will have nothing else to do other than play MASS multiplayer.........Bioware will look at the data and think.......wow,PEOPLE LOVE MULTIPLAYER,maybe we should make Mass4 a straight up multiplayer shooter............NNNNNNNNNNNNNNoooooooooooooo.

Unfortunately, it's been a couple weeks since I've gotten my soul raped by the ending and I still can't bring my self to play this game.

I think this is one of the biggest problems of a poor ending with any game. While I was playing ME3, I was looking forward to reaching the end, so I could play it again under a different class, as well as trying different outcomes. But after completing it once and seeing the conclusion, I don't know if I want to go through and experience the pain of the ending again.

[Costello_Anasazi]

I am not sure Bioware are listening to their fans. The problem with the ending is that nothing we did made the slightest difference. Every mass effect is destroyed, and then you have a choice of a number of possible ending each leaving the galaxy in a bad way and only reliant on a choice made in the last moment of the game.

By adding some cut scenes and not changing the ending you don't change anything. So a few more of the main characters will walk out of the crashed Normandy (though no idea how they got on it from earth given the work that was involved in landing) wont change that. Equally that you brought peace and unity to the galaxy wont matter in the slightest since the mass effects are gone and no one can travel anywhere outside their solar system. The current ending negates anything else and I can't see how any DLCs will be enjoyable as we all know they wont change a thing.

[Kunari801]

T.Attwood wrote...

... I think the most painful part, is that you know the characters will never see each other again, and the loss of contact means they will never know what has happened to Shepard, and will forever be apart.

The 'Stargazer' part at the end of the credits was interesting (nice to hear 'Buzz Aldrin' in a game), but in my view it didn't work as an ending because the player has followed the ME games over many years and sees Shepard as 'existing in the present'. The Stargazer part puts all the players experiences into an 'ancient legend', which detaches the player from their experience of the game, and this destroys its credibility. 

The game wants you to care about these characters, and when you do, the ending lined up for them makes you feel terrible. I play games to feel good and escape into an imaginary world. When that world beings to bite back, I'm not sure if I want to go back there...

That is the power of BW's storytelling.  The ME stories got us to really care about our Sheppard and Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Kaiden, Ashely, Liara, etc.  I wanted my Sheppard to live, but I knew that I'd likely sacrifice myself to save the galaxy at the end.  However, none of the three choices presented really felt like I saved the galaxy.   Nor did it give any real closure on the other characters I have come to love and care about other than being stranded on some unknown jungle world cut off from any help.  

I think BW was going for a bitter-sweet movie ending, but didn't get it right.   Mass Effect isn't a movie, we're more invested in these characters.  We needed more closure on the characters around Sheppard, we didn't really get that.   I hope the DLC will --at least-- like the site linked, help give closer to characters.  A memorial service by Shppard's LI, rescue of the Normandy crew, something to tie up their stories and not "Did we save them or did they die on that jungle planet?"

It's fan made and not cannon, but http://shannon.users...net/masseffect/ it a good site to get some closure with your characters.  

As lame as the Star-Brat is and how bad his logic is at least that site helps close the stories of the characters we've come to care about.   I know the Star-Brat isn't going anywhere, but I'd like the DLC to give the Star-Brats logic well... logic.  And give the three options more explanation and see the consequences.   

Edit: Fix spelling.   

Modifié par Kunari801, 13 avril 2012 - 05:36 .

[Changer the Elder]

You know, I'm starting to think that the ME3/ME2/ME1/(possibleME4) will be forever tainted for some of you no matter what Bioware does or does not. Even if they did retcon their endings, for some, there would still be a need to run around like sheep, baaing and complaining this is not how you wanted it.

Even if Bioware pulls a miracle and makes the endings so exceptionally good that the scenes top everything we've seen the game do so far, some of you will still refuse to back down and give credit where credit's due, because that would mean admitting being wrong.

Of course, I have no guarantee that's going to happen. Still, I find that statistic anomaly kind of sad.

[Kunari801]

Changer the Elder wrote...

You know, I'm starting to think that the ME3/ME2/ME1/(possibleME4) will be forever tainted for some of you no matter what Bioware does or does not.... 

That's true no matter what.  You can't please everyone.  

As I said before, Mass Effect isn't a movie, we're more invested in the characters around Sheppard (and Sheppard him/her self too).   I don't like the Star-kid logic and it's way to deus-ex-machina for me but I'll accept that if they give us better closure on Tali, Liara, Garrus, etc and a better explain the repercussions of our decisions.

[Zombies_Dead]

I don't care for the understanding of the 3!!! endings...
Don't want to know why old cheese stinks.... it won't make it smell any better

[Jassu1979]

Changer the Elder wrote...

You know, I'm starting to think that the ME3/ME2/ME1/(possibleME4) will be forever tainted for some of you no matter what Bioware does or does not. Even if they did retcon their endings, for some, there would still be a need to run around like sheep, baaing and complaining this is not how you wanted it.

Sheep are known for their docility and tranquil nature. Not necessarily the metaphor you were aiming for.

Will there always be people who complain?
Certainly.
But if the ending wasn't such a gigantic mess to begin with, and/or Bioware changed it for the better, the ones who would (still) be less than content would mostly stem from that small minority that derives some masochistic delight from complaining over pretty much everything.

[jeweledleah]

Changer the Elder wrote...

You know, I'm starting to think that the ME3/ME2/ME1/(possibleME4) will be forever tainted for some of you no matter what Bioware does or does not. Even if they did retcon their endings, for some, there would still be a need to run around like sheep, baaing and complaining this is not how you wanted it.

Even if Bioware pulls a miracle and makes the endings so exceptionally good that the scenes top everything we've seen the game do so far, some of you will still refuse to back down and give credit where credit's due, because that would mean admitting being wrong.

Of course, I have no guarantee that's going to happen. Still, I find that statistic anomaly kind of sad.

that depends on whether they admit that they messed up and HOW they change the endings.

no, I'm not looking for apology either.  and no matter WHAT happens, I'm not getting the game I wanted.  I wanted to be able to save everyone.  I wanted to have no squadmate casualties.  even DA2 with its much bleaker tone and more scripted deaths of people close to protagonist, allows you to keep every single companion alive, and allows Hawke to remain with their LI.

but I'm not getting that in ME3.  and for the most part - I made peace with it.  what pisses me off though, is the fact that somehow bioware  and EA are exempt from admiting that they could have possibly been wrong.  I'll admit that I was wrong about doubting them, when they admit that they were wrong when they lied about the game, so many aspects of the game (not just the endings either) and fix at least the endings.  show us that they really are listening.

I refuse to give credit becasue I don't see any credit due here.  not yet.

you know who I give full credit to?  Patrik Weeks.  composers.  other individual writers who came up with some of the best moments of ME3.  animators who did their best with what they were given.  sound effect guys.  THEY deserve the credit.

[JulesDarkwill]

Since I checked all 3 endings I did not start the game.
The only thing I check or wait is the "New Ending DLC". But as I read BW replies it seems hopeless.
I know this is your game (but I think it reflects brightly the EA greedy hand).
Hopefully at least you are satisfied (as you told to us) with the hasted and silly ending you created. You can play it anytime you want... because a lot of us won't.

[LiarasShield]

the scary thing is even though I like the mp in me3 I'm scared of a special forces spin off or some wacky mmo I hope that it doesn't go down either of those paths

[T.Attwood]

Kunari801 wrote...

T.Attwood wrote...

... I think the most painful part, is that you know the characters will never see each other again, and the loss of contact means they will never know what has happened to Shepard, and will forever be apart.

The 'Stargazer' part at the end of the credits was interesting (nice to hear 'Buzz Aldrin' in a game), but in my view it didn't work as an ending because the player has followed the ME games over many years and sees Shepard as 'existing in the present'. The Stargazer part puts all the players experiences into an 'ancient legend', which detaches the player from their experience of the game, and this destroys its credibility. 

The game wants you to care about these characters, and when you do, the ending lined up for them makes you feel terrible. I play games to feel good and escape into an imaginary world. When that world beings to bite back, I'm not sure if I want to go back there...

That is the power of BW's storytelling.  The ME stories got us to really care about our Sheppard and Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Kaiden, Ashely, Liara, etc.  I wanted my Sheppard to live, but I knew that it was more likely would sacrifice to save the galaxy.  The three choices didn't really fell like I saved the galaxy.   Nor did it give any real closure on the other characters I have come to love and care about other than being stranded on some unknown jungle world cut off from any help.  

I think BW was going for a bitter-sweet movie ending, but didn't get it right.   Mass Effect isn't a movie, we're more infested in these characters.  We needed more closure on the characters around Sheppard, we didn't really get that.   I hope the DLC will --at least-- like the site linked, help give closer to characters.  A memorial service by Shppard's LI, rescue of the Normandy crew, something to tie up their stories and not "Did we save them or did they die on that jungle planet?"

It's fan made and not cannon, but http://shannon.users...net/masseffect/ it a good site to get some closure with your characters.  

As lame as the Star-Brat is and how bad his logic is at least that site helps close the stories of the characters we've come to care about.   I know the Star-Brat isn't going anywhere, but I'd like the DLC to give the Star-Brats logic well... logic.  And give the three options more explanation and see the consequences.   

I agree, BW story-telling is very good. This is highlighted with the amount of player interest in what actually happens in their games. Prior to ME3, I was hoping to have some closure and a satisfying ending. I was half-expecting a lot of characters to get killed, and was prepared for that. I think the problem was (as you mentioned) is just how they went about it, for example. forcing characters that were with you, back onto the Normandy and sending them to some obscure place where they would be forced to live out their lives and colonise a planet (I noticed the sky of the Normandy crash site and the Stargazer scene were the same, so I assumed the Stargazer and child are the distant decendants of the Normandy crew). That whole situation just seemed forced. I didn't like the Star-brat thing either, as his dialogue made no sense. It contradicted everything the Mass Effect universe has explained to you over the series of games. Not to mention, Shepard seemed too willing to sacrifice himself and take the Star-brat's word for everything. Why was Shepard even listening to him? Again, it seemed in contrast to the scene on Rannoch where Shepard defeats the Reaper. It was errors like this that turned a potentially satisfying game ending into confusion.

Thanks for the link, btw!

[Bob Garbage]

Bioware doesn't need to listen to their fans anymore. Their games have, over time, become more and more simplified and for those who are into shiny things. ME3 was to attract the CoD/Halo kids, and it has done just that. Its still a fun game, but ME was supposed to be more than just a fun game. They'll never, ever........EVER create games on par with Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights or even KOTOR, simply because they're no longer in that world anymore. They now make games to make money, rather than making money to create the games they love. Glory days are over.