23455 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

No matter what decent reasons you have thanatos most likely won't listen and just call you a whinie **** no matter what decent backup or proof of certain things he won't listen at all it is ok to have a different opinon but I think even most who did like the endingd could at least understand some of the reasons that have been mentioned

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

No matter what decent reasons you have thanatos most likely won't listen and just call you a whinie **** no matter what decent backup or proof of certain things he won't listen at all it is ok to have a different opinon but I think even most who did like the endingd could at least understand some of the reasons that have been mentioned

I understand better than you think. Thus why I only comment on the parts I dont agree with.

[T.Attwood]

3DandBeyond wrote...
And I agree about the thought you don't end a series with a cliffhanger.  It may seem artistic, but it is horrible.  You also don't end a series with every path pointing to sad, deplorable outcomes.  It may seem artistic in that it goes against the flow of a happy ending, but sad disturbing endings don't make fans want to play more ME3 content.  It ain't good for business so it ain't good for the game.

I absolutely agree with this.

[Benchpress610]

T.Attwood wrote...

I thought this was an interesting poll:
http://social.biowar...8&poll_id=31420

It gives you an idea of the strength of feeling regarding the ending.

There are other polls created much earlier. In most of them the ratio is 10/1 in favor of changing the endings. One of the oldest ones the voting for change is over 60,000 votes. I do not have the link though, sorry.

[T.Attwood]

Benchpress610 wrote...

T.Attwood wrote...

I thought this was an interesting poll:
http://social.biowar...8&poll_id=31420

It gives you an idea of the strength of feeling regarding the ending.

There are other polls created much earlier. In most of them the ratio is 10/1 in favor of changing the endings. One of the oldest ones the voting for change is over 60,000 votes. I do not have the link though, sorry.

Thanks for the info! The above poll is the only one I was aware of. A 10/1 ratio is certainly a strong result.

Modifié par T.Attwood, 15 avril 2012 - 10:18 .

[3DandBeyond]

If you are to be believed Thanatos, then it seems you and Bioware are asserting that not being human makes one more expendable and less than humans.

If you look at it from an Asari's point of view-they are actually very spiritual-and they believe that humans are not imbued with Asarity (instead of humanity). Unfortunately, much of the game does go there. Incredibly, all beings are expected to abandon their homeworlds and come and save Earth. But, I can get past that because it's about the Crucible.

I can't get past the idea that the willingness to sacrifice oneself for another or countless others is viewed as something less than other life. Legion displays humanity. But calling it humanity is arrogant and based upon a human point of view.

[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

If you are to be believed Thanatos, then it seems you and Bioware are asserting that not being human makes one more expendable and less than humans.

If you look at it from an Asari's point of view-they are actually very spiritual-and they believe that humans are not imbued with Asarity (instead of humanity). Unfortunately, much of the game does go there. Incredibly, all beings are expected to abandon their homeworlds and come and save Earth. But, I can get past that because it's about the Crucible.

I can't get past the idea that the willingness to sacrifice oneself for another or countless others is viewed as something less than other life. Legion displays humanity. But calling it humanity is arrogant and based upon a human point of view.

They also hid prothean tech so they can stay more advanced and stay the top dogs in the universe.......As human you shuld think you are worth as much as a asari or salarian. If you dont them why are trying to save your species?

[LiarasShield]

but I guess as a whole we gotta ask is our race worth saving...

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

but I guess as a whole we gotta ask is our race worth saving...

That academic.If Shep didnt think so she/he wouldnt be a soldier instead she/he would be some weird hippie smoking Asari pot LOl

Modifié par Thanatos144, 15 avril 2012 - 10:31 .

[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

If you are to be believed Thanatos, then it seems you and Bioware are asserting that not being human makes one more expendable and less than humans.

If you look at it from an Asari's point of view-they are actually very spiritual-and they believe that humans are not imbued with Asarity (instead of humanity). Unfortunately, much of the game does go there. Incredibly, all beings are expected to abandon their homeworlds and come and save Earth. But, I can get past that because it's about the Crucible.

I can't get past the idea that the willingness to sacrifice oneself for another or countless others is viewed as something less than other life. Legion displays humanity. But calling it humanity is arrogant and based upon a human point of view.

By the way Legion is more insect than human. Hive mind and all that.

[LiarasShield]

a asari smoking pot and being a hippie now that would be kinda funny ll

[LiarasShield]

lol

[LiarasShield]

but yesh U-u I will always want my blue children but at least I can get that in fanfiction I suppose ^^

Modifié par LiarasShield, 15 avril 2012 - 10:37 .

[Netherspin]

nickkcin11 wrote...
No, as we just saw with EDI and the Geth, synthetics are "human". And by human I mean they have a soul. They are "people". Legion gave his life to make sure the geth can't be controlled by the Reapers. The Geth didn't destroy their creators when they had the chance. IMO, that sounds like something a human, not a robot, would do. Throughout ME3, EDI basically learns how to become more human and by the end, she is. When we finally reach the end and the stupid Star Child is like "the created will always rebel against their creators" and basically says that organics and synthetics can't live in harmony together, that it will always lead to extermination, is bull****. The geth and EDI prove it! And his solution to the synthetics destroying organics solution is to make synthetics that kill organics... so that organics don't get killed by synthetics... WHAT? What people are saying is that they understand what BW was trying to do, but the way it was executed doesn't make sense in the lore of the game. Like it's a plot hole. Sizes of said potholes are equal to the mistakes in you comment which rendered it unreadable.

Let's give the catalyst a bit of credit, he's been watching litteraly thousands of cycles and the Prothean VI on Thessia lets us know that the violent rise and fall of an AI "race" is a pattern repeated in nearly every cycle. They may have made peace with the organics before Quarian/Geth style (thou I personally doubt it - the peace is a direct result of Shepards interferrance, and he is according the the catalyst unique) and fallen back into another war. At the end of the day the catalyst and reapers have seen it literraly thousands of times - and I don't blame them for thinking that this AI's history will proberbly end out in pretty much the same way as the last 4000 or who knows how many.

And the solution to synthetics killing ALL organics is other synthetics killing all ADVANCED organics to prevent them from making more AI's. The repetition of this argument really does Sovereign credit with his "We trancend your comprehension" .

Regarding the LI's in the games, think ME1 - it doesn't matter if you romance Liara or Ash - the end is still save the counsil or let them die + Sovereign dies. ME2 - Shepard has even more LI's and at the end it's still save the collector base or destroy it. The LI's influence on the ending in ME3 is no different from the previous 2 games - it gives us a short cutscene on the way to the final battle, and that's it.
Don't get me wrong, I think they're great in ME1 and 2 - and I really don't see why we suddently want LI's in ME3 to matter so much more.

[LiarasShield]

cause we were hopeing to finally get some resolutions for the love interests that we had for all 3 games wether the blue children or building tali a house or meeting garrius father they were very important things that some or alot of us were hopein for

[HBK Dew Man]

I have wanted them to matter more from the start.

[Netherspin]

LiarasShield wrote...

cause we were hopeing to finally get some resolutions for the love interests that we had for all 3 games wether the blue children or building tali a house or meeting garrius father they were very important things that some or alot of us were hopein for

Then we're past the "our choices don't matter" and into an "I want a happy ending" argument,
For that I'll stand by what I've said earlier - it took me a full week to swallow the ending, but I cannot see it ending in a better way. That's a matter of taste, and I'm not going to try to force my tastes on anyone - same as I'd appriciate if noone tries to force their tastes on me.

Edit: actually that's not true I'd have liked Shepard to live, if only so that Bioware would announce an ME4 - lord knows that EA would see it happen or cut the funding.

Modifié par Netherspin, 15 avril 2012 - 11:05 .

[LiarasShield]

well we just feel different about I do wish our actions would have affected the ending and in the good destroy ending if shepard does live have a chance to go find his her or her crew and love interest and have a shot at happiness I mean after going through all the crap with soverign then being killed and brought back to kill the collectors it would kinda be cool to finally have solace for a change I mean it would kinda suck to be brought back only to die again and never be able to tame some semblance of happyness

[nickkcin11]

Because in ME1 and 2, Shepard succeeds basically no matter what (you have to try to get Shepard killed in ME2) whereas in ME3, he fails no matter what. Or at least that's how a lot of us feel.

Not going to even start with how bad the romance mechanics worked in ME3. It seems like in each game, they gradually got worse.

And how exactly does the Prothean VI know of so many cycles? I don't trust the Star-Child because he seems like a ******. And what he says doesn't usually make sense. Whatever the case may be, after seeing the forces of the galaxy united (synthetics and organics "hand in hand") couldn't he just call off the attack? If he controls the Reapers? And I still don't understand how making Reapers solves the problem? Ugg.

[LiarasShield]

either way I think the option for a happy ending and a true defeat ending should be open to the final marking of this triliogy since our actions and the way we have done things have always changed or altered thee events in some way or actual choices during the battle having some decent impact on the final choice but we only have 3 forced choices that really don't take any of our actions from past two games into account I mean extended can fix this and who knows for the individual like me who would at least like a shot at a decent ending with a import from the last 2 games and the good destroy ending I think it would be perfectly reasonable

[Argetfalcon]

Since your sticking with the endings and just adding better explanation.

Control- Perhaps in one scenerio Shepard could make the reapers repair the Mass relays, And then use their tech to reconstruct his body so he can reunite with his crew and LI.

Destroy- When destroyed maybe the could study the repear corpses to make a new way to travel across galaxy, reconstruct the citadel, and find way to reactivate the geth and EDI depending on you choices.

Javik maybe in one ending he has a chance to revive his race through cloning using his DNA to help reconstruct the DNA of the dead protheans on Illos (the salarians were able to revive the kakliosaurs)

Would prefer longer space fight and ground fight cinematics that showcase your war assests (like elcor tanks, mercenaries, rachni, and old squadmates)

Little blue children for Liara lovers, (or family structure for any LI)

Find a way to retcon Tali's face whether that means getting rid of the photo in game, giving it a new photo, replaceing the photo with one of her a shepard while she is still masked. Or maybe give an explanation such as the way Quarians show affection is by creating photos of what their and their lovers children would look like. Don't care how you do it but the current face has to go../../../images/forum/emoticons/alien.png

[jeweledleah]

Netherspin wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

cause we were hopeing to finally get some resolutions for the love interests that we had for all 3 games wether the blue children or building tali a house or meeting garrius father they were very important things that some or alot of us were hopein for

Then we're past the "our choices don't matter" and into an "I want a happy ending" argument,
For that I'll stand by what I've said earlier - it took me a full week to swallow the ending, but I cannot see it ending in a better way. That's a matter of taste, and I'm not going to try to force my tastes on anyone - same as I'd appriciate if noone tries to force their tastes on me.

Edit: actually that's not true I'd have liked Shepard to live, if only so that Bioware would announce an ME4 - lord knows that EA would see it happen or cut the funding.

oh I don't know, I can imagine it pretty easily, personaly.  Citadel itself is a catalyst, aka - apowersource and a signal amplifyer - which would actualy make more sence, since its a massive relay, and keeper's secondary purpose (primary being maintenance)  was to send along a signal to the reapers as well as activate Citadel relay.  and in ME1, especialy if you helped Chorban, we get to make some serious progress into figuring out exactly how the keapers work.

so Shepard gets to the Citadel, activates the arms, allows crucible to dock.  bam.  the button to activate the crucible?  should have been INSIDE the crucible.

Shepard lives if he/she prepared well enough so rescue is possible.  crucible scrambles the reaper shields, allowing the fleet to destroy them.  not enough fleets = higher losses for the galaxy.  not enough people working on a crucible = signal not being as strong.

no need to indroduce deus ex machina.  the crucible remains a super weapon rather then magical off button.  our choices actualy matter.  and Shepard feels like a winner.

P.S.  i personaly don't want ME4.  at least not with Shepard as a central character.  Shepard deserves to retire (or work on the sidelines) and allow new hero to emerge.  each new Star Trek series, featured different captains.  and they only killed off one of them within the series.  you don't need to kill of a certnal character before you can move on to a different central character.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 15 avril 2012 - 11:22 .

[DirgeSinger]

Chris Priestly wrote...

We appreciate everyone’s feedback about Mass Effect 3 and want you to know that we are listening.

I don't feel respected as a longtime BioWare fan to keep hearing comments from the developers and the industry about how, because I think the endings were rushed and poorly done. You keep defending them on terms of "artistic integrity," yet while they are pretty, they have no integrity in the truest sense of the word, in relation to the combined weight of established canon throughout the three games. I also disagree with the basic implication behind the "artistic integrity" idea--that this is your game alone, not also the player's.

Not only is that devoid of business sense, to essentially tell your player after marketing your games as all about player choice, that their choice is meaningless (and they are petulant and stupid for asking you to give it back to them when you arbitrarily take it away after countless hours of player investment)--but beyond simple business, it is also simply incorrect. The ending of Mass Effect 3 lacks the very artistic integrity that BioWare's representatives and their supporters in the industry (most of whom admit to not having played it at all, or having only played part of the game) have based their responses on.

I also don't feel valued and respected by BioWare's choices following the HUGE player backlash to the cobbled-together ending. I get that BioWare is owned by EA, now. I get that sometimes things have timelines and just must be finished. But BioWare has always stood out to me as a company that has strong ties to the community, and as a company that supports their products long after release.

I've bought your games since Baldur's Gate 1. I bought NWN purely based on your name. At first, it was a hugely bugged experience; you listened to customers and fixed that, and went on to make it the most player-driven community I've ever experienced through your support of content-creation and persistent worlds.

Don't let that relationship, or that perception slip. One of the Good Doctors spoke of humility, and accepting fan feedback. Adding on to the endings isn't enough. Listen to what your fans are asking for. If you won't give us new endings,

Clarify the ones you've given us. 
Correct the gaping plot and story holes.
Redact the things that simply make no sense, like Joker running from the fight, or our companions--who were with Shepard in his final assault on the Citadel--somehow making it to the Normandy to flee with Joker.
Connect the new elements in the endings to the rest of the game.
Make our decisions matter with what you add to the endings.

The last is the most important to me, personally.

If I took the time and effort to truly unite the galaxy completely behind Shepard, the war readiness should genuinely affect the endings, not just what options are available.

If I choose to do something other than destroy the Reapers, but I came prepared, Shepard shouldn't have to die. Reward your players who have put in the time to deeply invest in the game like you have done in the past, rather than making a surface playthrough.

And don't take too long. There's only so long a fan will stand having a bitter taste in the mouth before disenfranchisement sets in permanently.

[CountDrunku]

BioWare,

Whether you're listening or not
Whether my opinion matters or not
In my personal opinion, I do not see how the current endings can be clarified.
I believe clarifying why the reapers are killing everyone off caused this problem.
There are tons of codexes anyone can listen to ( yes, they don't even have to read XD ( by the way, the person the codexes is a great reader, really good clear voice. I just sometimes liked listening to him talk. ) )

Anyway, tons of codexes. A great way for people to talk about the ending is the question: Why were the Reapers destroying everything? If they failed, why explain them? Throughout the universe of Mass Effect, I did not once think the big question Shepard would decide on would be Synthetics and Organics. Mass Effect 3 setup this problem quite nicely but, the other two games barely, if at all, lead me to believe this.

Off all the things I had a problem with, I grasp at the ending. I totally wish I saw Tali's face, without her helmet. I got a picture. Shepard, who can potentially have a relationship with Tali, got to see her face but, I didn't, the player. I got a picture. I really hope for a paid DLC involving everyone's particular love interests. I figured a conclusion of an arc with Shepard would wrap up all the choices nicely. It didn't wrap up all the choices, but the journey was still fun. It still felt like a Mass Effect game I enjoyed since the first part of the series.

I missed actually zooming in on conservations, that had nothing to do with anything, after mission chats, making me feel apart of something, than just tapping 'A'.

I can only speak on my playthroughs. 1 male Shepard, 2 Female Shepards. One with Liara, one with Tali, and one with Garrus. I wish there was more time for love interests. Mass Effect 2 had inviting loves interests up to the cabin. Why wasn't this put in Mass Effect 3? Mass Effect 2 set me up for Mass Effect 3. I made the three characters I had fit perfectly, to what I thought, for their love interest. It was very hard to play different characters on the game, going toward the ultimate goal of . . .

. . . the ending.

Please change the ending. I could care less about cinematics that don't have interactiveness. BioWare, you have showed me that cinematic dialogue and gameplay are one in the same. The Illusive Man scene was like this . . . why wasn't the star child scene? That is my main concern even if I do not like the choices given.

As a big side note, I wish Harbinger played a bigger role in the game, especially at the ending. BioWare, Harbinger was a Reaper that had character. Do not write him off as all the meaningless Reapers flying around. Have him assume direct control shepard, or have shepard fight that off. Maybe have him completely not care about anything BUT commander shepard. The dying reaper said Harbinger had mentioned you. Why not show that? Sovereign went toe to toe with Shepard through Saren. Harbinger went toe to toe with Shepard in almost every encounter of the collectors. Please allow him one last toe to toe moment, maybe having the ultimate twist of the Reapers disobeying their creator. He landed, shot and flew away while shepard was alive? That doesn't sound like maniac Harbinger at all who wanted to preserve commander shepard's body. Who actually engaged commander shepard with conservation, mainly insults.

Please change the ending. Do not write everyone off as the biggest fan outcry.

[Netherspin]

nickkcin11 wrote...

Because in ME1 and 2, Shepard succeeds basically no matter what (you have to try to get Shepard killed in ME2) whereas in ME3, he fails no matter what. Or at least that's how a lot of us feel.

Not going to even start with how bad the romance mechanics worked in ME3. It seems like in each game, they gradually got worse.

And how exactly does the Prothean VI know of so many cycles? I don't trust the Star-Child because he seems like a ******. And what he says doesn't usually make sense. Whatever the case may be, after seeing the forces of the galaxy united (synthetics and organics "hand in hand") couldn't he just call off the attack? If he controls the Reapers? And I still don't understand how making Reapers solves the problem? Ugg.

Completely agree that the romance mechanics got worse with the games, but that holds true with Dragon Age and SWTOR as well - if you list Bioware games by how good the romance machanics are, you'll get a very neat chronological order of the games releases. I've no idea what inspires this, but I would of course like it not to be the case.

Regarding the Prothean VI it's clear throughtout the ME games that the Protheans are more advanced than anything in "our" cycle. It stands to reason their archaeology projects have gone further as well and they would have uncovered more devices like the VI on Thessia only left over from the previous cycle who picked up info from the one before and so on.
Star-child may seem a ******, but it's clear that he doesn't trust the organic/mechanic alliance. He's immesurably old, and has seen countless cycles and if he says it won't hold it can be for one of 2 reasons - either he's seen it many times before and it's never lasted, or he's never seen it before and it doesn't believe it possible. And I understand his concern - nothing brings people together like a common enemy, so what will happen once the reapers retreat? Politics will start again, infighting with it and the peace may quite possibly break down.

To try to make sense of the reapers solving the problem, try to think of present day earth - small scale comparison. Some force on mars is devoted to protecting the human existence, and reaizes that nuclear weapons pose a threat to the entire species regardless of who uses them against each other - so every ... say 200 years they come to earth and crush every civilization that has achieved flight. It's a blunt approach agreed, but it'll work. Every civilization with the capabilities of making and using nuclear weapons are destroyed - the others are left to their devices - to eventually invent aircrafts and nuclearweapons and then be destroyed so that they don't start a nuclear war either.
I don't know if this has clarified it for you at all, but this is similar to the reasoning for the cycles.