23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Discarnate19]

Came here to get some things off of my chest. I finished ME3 about a week ago and I still have not come around on the ending. I've invested years of my life into book series with some pretty unsatisfying endings, but nothing has ever felt like such a slap to the face like the ending to ME3. As a customer, and a fan of BioWare, I feel disrespected.

Now, I'm a very reasonable person. I completely understand the budget and time constraints that the development team were under (regardless of how much blame can be attributed to EA). I also know that it would have been crazy to try to cater the endings to each individual player's choices throughout the series. I even came around and accepted the fact that, even though my choices throughout the game didn't *really* affect the ending, I became satisfied the three choices I was given. This is partly because I realized how amazing it was that I sat there and agonized over these choices for what seemed like an eternity before choosing my Shepard's fate. I kept thinking... this is a video game and I have so many emotions flooding my system right now-- how amazing that they could make the player feel so connected to this fictional universe!

I even accepted the star child, eventually. Although, I'm still not sure what the overall message you were trying to send was. Which is one of my complaints. I think you almost hit on some really interesting and deep themes with the ending, but it seemed so rushed and confusing that whatever message about "playing god(?)" you were trying to send was lost. Hell, maybe I'm just trying to make sense of the chaos and this wasn't your intention. I don't even....

Anyway, the biggest upset to me was not seeing what happened to my crew. I was read for Shepard to die. I agree with jeweledleah (above), who said that Shepard has been through so much he/she should have time to rest. Personally, I'd rather enjoy an ending where my Shepard lived and retired with her LI, but hey, you can't always get what you want. However, BioWare, you created this universe, immersed all of us in it, and made us fall in love with the characters -- you have responsibilities now. How can you not show us what happens to all of these characters that we have spent so many years connecting with? How can you give us the "breath scene" and not an epilogue?

I'm holding out for the DLC, hoping you have some kind of trick up your sleeve.... because I know you are better than this. I know your TEAM knows how to write a great story. Even good stories with bittersweet endings provide more closure than what you gave us. You have to know that you've made a huge mistake and that this is about more than your artistic integrity. Please don't let us down. You've done something truly amazing with Mass Effect. Some people (myself included) believe this is one of, if not the best sci-fi universe ever created. Please give this story the ending it deserves.

[speedtrap63]

 Just finished running through the endings and you've got to be kidding me, Bioware!  You've essentially given us no choice whatsoever, since aside from the red and blue coloring, the end is the same!  Shepard dies, or at least you have to assume he does in both "choices", because what's left of your crew end up on some strange world and there is no epilogue.

Why are we making choices throughout the game and the trilogy for that matter if you are going to ignore them at the end and force feed us an ending that is essentially a no win for the main character.  The game was so deep and really great, you could see the care that went into it.  Unfortunately for us, it felt like the end, one long cut scene essentially, was rushed in and tacked on without a thought to continuity.  Essentially you flipped us all the bird and thanked us for the cash.

All that's left to say is: Really, Bioware?  Really?  

What a bunch of hacks.

[chemiclord]

Yes, they are listening.

No, that doesn't mean they are going to do what you want.

/end thread.

[webhead921]

Hey, Bioware!

I just have one very specific, but very important complaint/suggestion. In the synthesis ending, why is joker still limping? I think the synthesis ending would make a bit more sense and woud me more meaningful if the ending scene implied that joker's new synthetics would help his brittle bone disease.

Thanks for listening!

[Hoodoo Guru]

Archonsg wrote...

Think you are kinder then most. Me, I just wonder if they are so enamored by the Hollywood "sacrifice the hero" coupled with multiple explosions that they just don't stop to think what each choice really means, what the state of the galaxy is and even if taken at face value, that ending was inconsistent within itself. 

First of all I can't stand over the top action movies where nothing fits within the realm of physical reality and ability, like any of the "Mission Impossible" movies. 

Secondly, "Hollwood "Sacrifice the Hero," what?  The hero almost never gets sacrificed.  And yes thought was given to each choice, and the state of things after the choice.  Relays destroyed along with Reapers and synthetics, and every action has a reaction and a consequence, no ifs or buts about it.   Travel through the "stars may not be possible at that moment but pockets of life survived throughout the systems.  I was hoping for that great epic battle where the "good guys" are victorious as well, but I also accepted the ending for what it was, shocking and different from what everybody built up in their heads.  Yes sacrificing EDI and other synthetics sucked, but I have never heard of a perfect solution, where everybody wins, even in a truce concessions have to be made.

As far as Shepard controlling the reapers, I interpreted it as him taking the place of the catalyst as a cognizant energy enforcing will over the reapers, maybe I am wrong, I could be, I'm not always perfect, rarely actually.

[Levi1988]

Mass Effect 3 ending.

Now we know what Freddy Kruger's nightmares look like.


The horrific imagery I experienced while watching these terrible endings has scarred my mind, and ripped open my psyche. I can't even bring myself to play DA or Dead Space because of these endings. Thanks Bioware, for ruining gaming for everyone.

[Hoodoo Guru]

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Hoodoo Guru wrote...

 Loved the ending,  difficult choices and all have their consequences.  The hero can't always save the day, get the girl/guy and have their pudding without eating  their meat.  Sometimes victory isn't pretty and sacrifices have to be made.  Thanks for having the guts to make a game where the story ends without a sugary, sit-com ending.  The needs of the many...

You know... sugary and happy isn't what most people are looking for. The issue with the ending has little to do with Shepard dying. The main issue is the lack of logic and contradiction to lore:

1 - Multiple solar systems, with all of the races inhabiting them, are wiped out by the relay explosions

2 - The jungle planet the crew lands on cannot support the lives of some of the species in the crash, since they don't all eat the same foods.

3 - A green light couldn't make every organic (with several different types of DNA and protein designs)partly robotic. And even if it did, how does that guarantee peace? Can't the synthesized life create more advanced Synthetic life, thus continuing the "chaos"?

4 - If all it took was the crucible to create the other "solutions," why didn't God-boy build a Crucible and synthesize life so he doesn't have to use the reapers?

5 - Character placement is off (Joker running; crew on ship; Anderson beats Shep to citadel; Illusive man behind you)

And a plethora of other illogical details.

Maybe I missed something in the ending, but I do not remember it saying that the destruction of the relays destroyed the entire solar sstems that they were in and all the races inhabiting them. 

[indyracing]

Hoodoo Guru wrote...

BlazingZephyr wrote...

Hoodoo Guru wrote...

 Loved the ending,  difficult choices and all have their consequences.  The hero can't always save the day, get the girl/guy and have their pudding without eating  their meat.  Sometimes victory isn't pretty and sacrifices have to be made.  Thanks for having the guts to make a game where the story ends without a sugary, sit-com ending.  The needs of the many...

You know... sugary and happy isn't what most people are looking for. The issue with the ending has little to do with Shepard dying. The main issue is the lack of logic and contradiction to lore:

1 - Multiple solar systems, with all of the races inhabiting them, are wiped out by the relay explosions

2 - The jungle planet the crew lands on cannot support the lives of some of the species in the crash, since they don't all eat the same foods.

3 - A green light couldn't make every organic (with several different types of DNA and protein designs)partly robotic. And even if it did, how does that guarantee peace? Can't the synthesized life create more advanced Synthetic life, thus continuing the "chaos"?

4 - If all it took was the crucible to create the other "solutions," why didn't God-boy build a Crucible and synthesize life so he doesn't have to use the reapers?

5 - Character placement is off (Joker running; crew on ship; Anderson beats Shep to citadel; Illusive man behind you)

And a plethora of other illogical details.

Maybe I missed something in the ending, but I do not remember it saying that the destruction of the relays destroyed the entire solar sstems that they were in and all the races inhabiting them. 

Arrival DLC.

[pipemaster9000]

Giving other fans a bad name... I lol'd

[Kain82]

magnetite wrote...

All this Retake Mass Effect 3 and other movements is giving the other fans a bad name. I don't think they'll ever stop until they finally change the ending (and not just add to it). You guys are fighting a losing battle.

"We organics are driven by emotion instead of logic. We will fight even when we know we cannot win" -- Saren Arterius

Wrong. We just want an ending/s that Bioware promised, worthy of the Mass Effect Series. Whether that's one epic ending or multiple endings added, determined by our choices ( the way it was meant to be) with full closure. THAT is what people want, and it's not asking for alot at all.

[silver6kraid]

magnetite wrote...

All this Retake Mass Effect 3 and other movements is giving the other fans a bad name. I don't think they'll ever stop until they finally change the ending (and not just add to it). You guys are fighting a losing battle.

"We organics are driven by emotion instead of logic. We will fight even when we know we cannot win" -- Saren Arterius

They seem to operate under the assumption that Bioware could some how please everyone. The truth of the matter is that it's just impossible to do so. Besides, the Extended Cut could be a good thing, but everyone is just so willing to write it off. I say at least try it before you bash it. I believe the ending had some good ideas in there, but suffered from poor execution and a lack of explination. Expanding on the ending and adding an epolouge that gives closure would certainly make me feel better if not completely satisfied. I dunno, but I'll at least keep an open mind, seems like the rest of the fan base doesn't even want to do that. 

[Korubrus]

silver6kraid wrote...

magnetite wrote...

All this Retake Mass Effect 3 and other movements is giving the other fans a bad name. I don't think they'll ever stop until they finally change the ending (and not just add to it). You guys are fighting a losing battle.

"We organics are driven by emotion instead of logic. We will fight even when we know we cannot win" -- Saren Arterius

They seem to operate under the assumption that Bioware could some how please everyone. The truth of the matter is that it's just impossible to do so. Besides, the Extended Cut could be a good thing, but everyone is just so willing to write it off. I say at least try it before you bash it. I believe the ending had some good ideas in there, but suffered from poor execution and a lack of explination. Expanding on the ending and adding an epolouge that gives closure would certainly make me feel better if not completely satisfied. I dunno, but I'll at least keep an open mind, seems like the rest of the fan base doesn't even want to do that. 

I am all for testing the DLC before we bash it. But it would raise to many more questions - even if it is successful.

The main problem is; if it improves the ending and makes more people happy with it - bravo Bioware. But why couldn't they do that in the first place? Were they really rushed? Did they loose interest? Did they struggle to get their 'artistic juices' brewing after the alledged 'leak'?

But with the endings as they are - if they are NOT GOING TO BE CHANGED then it is very very hard to explain. IT can explain a lot of it, even space child. But they wont change their endings - space child stays, etc etc - and how can you explain space child?
How can you explain something that makes no sence?
You add a character in the last 5 minuits of the game (Who is the most important non-shepard character), who has space=magic and none is explained - Bioware ASKED FOR THIS BACKLASH.

Successful Sci-Fi shows explain how certain things are possible in their universe, and doing so provides their rules. When you break the rules - its important to explain why this time is an acception to the rules you created for your universe. Bioware totaly and royally stuffed that up in the last 5 minuits. Its the funamental rule to the Sci-Fi genre. If Star-Trek didn't explain anything and just left it up to their fans - no one would watch as no one would understand it.

[chemiclord]

They seem to operate under the assumption that Bioware could some how please everyone. The truth of the matter is that it's just impossible to do so. Besides, the Extended Cut could be a good thing, but everyone is just so willing to write it off. I say at least try it before you bash it. I believe the ending had some good ideas in there, but suffered from poor execution and a lack of explination. Expanding on the ending and adding an epolouge that gives closure would certainly make me feel better if not completely satisfied. I dunno, but I'll at least keep an open mind, seems like the rest of the fan base doesn't even want to do that. 

And this is actually my point of contention with the "Retake" group.

I'm not bothered that they think the ending sucks.  It does.  It's genuinely pretty terrible in its execution.  There are some massively gaping plot holes that are not adequately explained, and the entire thing feels like it was rushed from a first draft and given little review or editing.

But these people have already reached the conclusion that any attempt to improve on what is there is going to suck.  There is no redeeming what is already there.  Only a complete scrapping will do... not that I have any faith that they'd be happy with whatever remake was presented, anyway.

[sefudargo]

what gets me is that Bioware has stated before that they listen to their fans. and there is proof of that. after mass effect fans wanted to have a relationship with Garrus and tali. Mass effect 2 we have Garrus and tali as possible Love Intrest. we wanted a return to a more RPG style. Mass effect 3 we have more power evolutions and weapon customization and armor stat customization. but when fans cry at the ending. Nope, Artistic Integrity

[sefudargo]

chemiclord wrote...
And this is actually my point of contention with the "Retake" group.

I'm not bothered that they think the ending sucks.  It does.  It's genuinely pretty terrible in its execution.  There are some massively gaping plot holes that are not adequately explained, and the entire thing feels like it was rushed from a first draft and given little review or editing.

But these people have already reached the conclusion that any attempt to improve on what is there is going to suck.  There is no redeeming what is already there.  Only a complete scrapping will do... not that I have any faith that they'd be happy with whatever remake was presented, anyway.

Bosh'tet
I'm writing my own ending. Sheperd will defy the star child's 3 choices and make his/her own. Reaper will be destroyed. the mass relays will bounce the signal all across the galaxey and by doing so will overload them but they easily repairable. Sheperd has a place on Love Intrest home planet as it rebuilds. Garrus becomes a Spectre or head of C-Sec kicks ass and takes names. Garrus and Sheperd meet up every once and a while and shot things. at the one year anniversy of the defeat of the reapers big celibration all living members of all normandy crew are there. the Normandy's mormorial is moved to the Cititdel with statue of Sheperd and Anderson. Sheperd calls in all the people that owe him/her a drink and has to go to the hospital for alcohol poisoning. Sheperd and Love intest have kids (if LI is not Dextro). end

[nikola8]

sefudargo wrote...

what gets me is that Bioware has stated before that they listen to their fans. and there is proof of that. after mass effect fans wanted to have a relationship with Garrus and tali. Mass effect 2 we have Garrus and tali as possible Love Intrest. we wanted a return to a more RPG style. Mass effect 3 we have more power evolutions and weapon customization and armor stat customization. but when fans cry at the ending. Nope, Artistic Integrity

They actually DO listen.  Maybe they don't listen the way some people want, but they are listening.  The 'Extended Cut' is proof of that.  It wasn't part of the plan, but they are making it because of the outcry about the ending.  No, they aren't changing it, but they are making previously unplanned DLC (for free I might add).

[sefudargo]

nikola8 wrote...

They actually DO listen.  Maybe they don't listen the way some people want, but they are listening.  The 'Extended Cut' is proof of that.  It wasn't part of the plan, but they are making it because of the outcry about the ending.  No, they aren't changing it, but they are making previously unplanned DLC (for free I might add).

so like an olive branch. i'll check it out but in my mind I have my own ending to the story and i'm happy with it

[AmstradHero]

chemiclord wrote...

They seem to operate under the assumption that Bioware could some how please everyone. The truth of the matter is that it's just impossible to do so. Besides, the Extended Cut could be a good thing, but everyone is just so willing to write it off. I say at least try it before you bash it. I believe the ending had some good ideas in there, but suffered from poor execution and a lack of explination. Expanding on the ending and adding an epolouge that gives closure would certainly make me feel better if not completely satisfied. I dunno, but I'll at least keep an open mind, seems like the rest of the fan base doesn't even want to do that. 

And this is actually my point of contention with the "Retake" group.

I'm not bothered that they think the ending sucks.  It does.  It's genuinely pretty terrible in its execution.  There are some massively gaping plot holes that are not adequately explained, and the entire thing feels like it was rushed from a first draft and given little review or editing.

But these people have already reached the conclusion that any attempt to improve on what is there is going to suck.  There is no redeeming what is already there.  Only a complete scrapping will do... not that I have any faith that they'd be happy with whatever remake was presented, anyway.

The problem isn't simply that the ending suffers from poor execution, which is certainly does. It's simply that things don't make sense. Many people are unhappy with the Space Child, but even before that, it has problems.

For example, we know that:
The Illusive Man told the Reapers about the Crucible and that that the Citadel is the catalyst.
They know the Crucible/Catalyst can be used to destroy them.
The Reapers both moved the Citadel over Earth and closed the arms, presumably to stop the Crucible from docking with the Citadel and causing their doom.
We know the Reapers know their true purpose, because the dying Reaper tells us - even though Sovereign and Harbinger kept telling us that their purpose was beyond our understanding.
We can assume the Reapers don't want to be destroyed, and assume that they still believe that their purpose is valid, if not, they would stop attacking.

Knowing this, why would the Reapers allow the teleportation beam to remain active, when it could lead Shepard to a control room to open the Citadel arms and allow the Crucible to dock and thus destroy them?

If someone decides to say "it's just a test to determine whether Shepard/humanity/whomever could succeed", then surely the entire ending after Shepard rides the magic space elevator is invalid. Shepard is going to die in front of the control panel. Do they just give Shepard a gimme? Of course, once the conversation with the Space Child starts, everything goes out the window, as has been discussed at length.

The problem is that no amount of additional scenes after the existing endings can reconcile the errors in the plot and logic present in the current ending sequnce. That's why people are still not content with the announcement of the Extended Cut.

[Netherspin]

jeweledleah wrote...

which is exactly the point.

self aware citadel shoudln't need the keepers to send out any signals.  it shoudln't need a vanguard to stay behind and observe.

see the god child twist doesn't fit precicely becasue in the prior 2 games, reapers were setup as the villians NOT patsies and the entire plot of ME1, as well as the over reaching plost of ME2 + Arrival confirms that notion, it does NOTHING to foreshadow the godchild.

I can accept it as a VI, a failsafe, or a manifestation created by Harbinger messing with Shepards' mind.  as a creator of the reapers and the fascilitator of the solution who somehow manages to change the citadel to present other options, where 2 out of 3 (and the first ones available)  in some way destroyes the reapers.. by either controling them or destroying them.  it turns them from actual fully evolved independant "each a nation" AI into giant Loki mechs.

and becasue of that, we suddenly have a new enemy.  and we cannot win against that enemy.  we cannot argue, we cannot even refuse to do what we're told by that enemy.  we are rendered helpless and forced into destroying the very thing we were trying to protect and save - our galaxy and individual people we care about.  we are shown that through out all 3 games, we were basicaly wasting our time on a red herring.

First off the keepers technically doesn't send out a signal, they respond to a signal sent by the vanguard and perform on-site actions to activate the hidden relay.

As I see it the selfaware catalyst is a blindside because it's kept hidden from everyone. It needs to be kept from the reapers in order to avoid the otherwise enivitable rebellion of the created. It obviously needs to be kept from the organics since they need to be taken by surprise in order for the end of the cycle to be extermination rather than grand scale war.
Thus a vanguard and the keepers are nessecary to let the reapers think they are the first and not merely a solution to a problem.

If you accept the premise of the crucible as a presumed weapon supposedly left over by previous cycles - which I assume most here does because that's a theme going through all of ME3 and is not solely related to the ending. Then you also accept that this thing is the last hope of the galaxy - the only plan they have, and the functions of it would not be changed by diseases, political or personal relations, in the same way your car functions the same way regardless of who you marry..
Shepard will not argue since arguing with the catalyst is not going to save Earth. Every minute he spends not activating the crucible more and more people are lost in this terrible war, and not activating it at all means that all is lost and the cycle continues.
The only reason to stay and chat with this little boy is that the boy seems to know how the crucible is activated and what it does, and Shepard don't.

[Theronyll Itholien]

Ridley Scott shames BioWare with a comment about his upcoming movie Prometheus. Read this:

"With science fiction you have the opportunity of being able to do anything you want, and it's up to you to not do anything foolish or silly or daft, or NON-CREDIBLE." What he says next is what BioWare somehow failed to grasp. "Within that universe, you have to stick to your own rulebook."

But you be proud with the clusterf*ck you wrote, BioWare. You be real proud....

[aprilryan515]

There will be coming a dlc with the actual conclusion to Mass Effect. And the dlc will be free of cost. Not just added scenes and some copy/paste dialogue, but the real thing. This is 100% safe to assume. Nothing however, in this world is a 100%, except for some minor details.
It's a constructed attempt to create a worldwide phenomenon. And it's working. Whether it is for the money, for power, Galactic domination, a marketing spin to widen focus towards the company, again for the money. Or simply because they'd see if they could. I really don't sympathize with any of them, and I'm pretty sure there's even more cunning reasons for doing so. But also, in this respect they are free to run the company as they see fit. After all it's their company.
It will be awesome to continue the story and restore replay value to the game.
At this point only BioWare and the rEApers know if it's worth the trouble. And, I hope they'll fix it, so that PC-users can play offline with dlc installed. DLC is linked to your account, and if the server is down you just can't play the game. Another big reason why this 'delay the ending' thing is such a kick in the face. Nothing like all the disappointed people you've left hanging. That's just, well I'm lost for words.

Modifié par aprilryan515, 16 avril 2012 - 10:49 .

[TsubakiYayoi]

Levi1988 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 ending.

Now we know what Freddy Kruger's nightmares look like.


The horrific imagery I experienced while watching these terrible endings has scarred my mind, and ripped open my psyche. I can't even bring myself to play DA or Dead Space because of these endings. Thanks Bioware, for ruining gaming for everyone.

At least Dead Space and DA had good endings or at least endings that made a certain kind of sense.

[DarkShadow]

chemiclord wrote...

But these people have already reached the conclusion that any attempt to improve on what is there is going to suck.  There is no redeeming what is already there.  Only a complete scrapping will do... not that I have any faith that they'd be happy with whatever remake was presented, anyway.

And once again I read this bs. The ending didn't fit the ME series and on this forum there are hundreds of explanations why. EVERY SINGLE ending fanfic I've read so far follows the same pattern. If Bioware keeps this pattern in whatever they do to replace the ending, the majority WILL be pleased.

[sefudargo]

DarkShadow wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

But these people have already reached the conclusion that any attempt to improve on what is there is going to suck.  There is no redeeming what is already there.  Only a complete scrapping will do... not that I have any faith that they'd be happy with whatever remake was presented, anyway.

And once again I read this bs. The ending didn't fit the ME series and on this forum there are hundreds of explanations why. EVERY SINGLE ending fanfic I've read so far follows the same pattern. If Bioware keeps this pattern in whatever they do to replace the ending, the majority WILL be pleased.

wait what pattern. the deletion of Star child or defying it