23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Suikoden]

Loved the ending(s). Great work and looking forward to the extended cut.

[Ksandor]

chemiclord wrote...

Ralph The Wonder Llama wrote...

Unfortunaly something great was taken away from us, the fans. 

See, this is what I inherently disagree with.

EA can't take what isn't yours to begin with.  The fans owned absoutely jack s*** of this IP, narrative, characters, etc.  EA screwed themselves over, but ya know what... it was entirely their right to do so.  You have every right to not like it, make your displeasure clear, and eventually walk away if you don't feel your concerns were addressed, and you should.

But you have absolutely no right to claim ownership of anything.  Because it's not yours, and it never was.

So what? What if they own it, not me? We are customers. Displease us and you get screwed. I don't think customers should have to explain themselves to vendors... You sell somethirg I don't like, you own it? OK, I don't buy it. Enough people like me and you bankrupt. So really... What is your point?

[Blazerer]

>Once you enter consumerism nothing that is art has ownership except for the consumers<

You see, consumerism is all about what the Customer wants, not what the seller wants. If the customer wants x and the supplier wants to make money, he makes sure he has x.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ART WHEN COMBINED WITH A MASS MILLION DOLLAR SELLING ITEM

Secondly, consumerism is about truth and honesty. A company that fails to understand this has no right to exist, and should be taken down by the consumer as the consumer should be well-informed.

Thirdly, it is the duty of the supplier of a good or service to ensure that a service or good is of a level that can be expected within that branch of goods. you do not sell a car without brakes, you do not sell bread with unpure ingredients in it.

So why should we accept a game
- that not only didn't meet the expectations that were raised by their own posts
- that flat-out failed to meet the promises made
- from a company that time after time again said it values our opinion, yet when we voice it we are idiots that don't understand their 'art'

'We will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game' - Chris Priestly

Links to topics? pics or it didn't happen?

Modifié par Blazerer, 17 avril 2012 - 08:59 .

[AmstradHero]

Netherspin wrote...
There will be a fanbase. Bioware is still the undisputed champions of storytelling. Blizzard comes close with the StarCraft series (broodwar in particular), but apart from that noone is even close to Bioware when it comes to building a game around an immersive story with a huge and facinating universe. This should be self-evident but I'm going to point out that nothing ... litteraly nothing in the history of video games has aroused such massive response as the Mass Effect 3 ending, and this because the players care about the story.
...
At the end of the day - if you like the stories in the games theres Bioware or ... you know ... books. And if you really want to turn your back on Bioware because they wrote an ending you don't like, then by all means go get your next videogame story from Call of Duty's singleplayer campaign... I promise you you'll be crawling back to Bioware after that.

The problem is that in two successive games: Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3, BioWare have proven that they can't write a cohesive story from start to finish. Parts of DA2 were great, but there were other pieces that were unequivocally awful.  The vast, overwhelming majority of Mass Effect 3 was fantastic, but the ending attempted to turn it into a philosophical sci-fi question that was completely out of place with the rest of the series and made it feel like it had just blatantly been taken from Deus Ex, Battlestar Galatica, Stargate, <insert sci-fi tv series/movie/literature here>.

BioWare have lost this fan. This fan who has bought every single game on release day after Baldur's gate. Heck, I bought consoles specifically to play Jade Empire and Mass Effect. Their last two games have demonstrated to me that they can no longer tell a story like they once could. Their last two games demonstrated that they can no longer write a story that fits together as a meaningful whole. BioWare have had a formula in terms of gameplay structure and story design, that they have mostly been unable to break free of, but that was okay because the story was excellent. That storytelling talent and focus has slowly been eroded to the point where it has fallen apart completely.

That is why, unless BioWare somehow miraculously manages to fix/replace the ending to Mass Effect 3, I will not buy any more of their games. They need to demonstrate that they are still capable of producing games with coherent stories. Until that happens, they will not get a single cent of my money.

[T.Attwood]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Nardur wrote...

This is what I've gathered so far:

God Kid: You're almost at the end Shepard!

Shep: Who are you?

God Kid: I'm the catalyst, this is my home.

Shep: Erh.... what?

God Kid: Just go with it.

Shep: Wait.. you're the kid I saw on Earth! And you're in my dreams.

God Kid: Yep.

Shep: But you died!

God Kid: Yep.

Shep: How are you here? Why are you here? What's going on?

God Kid: Two words - Artistic Integrity.

Shep: Huh?

God Kid: Just go with it ok buddy? We're almost at the end of this thing, and you need to make a decision from three choices!
........................................And etc...........
Shep: ....

God Kid: ....

Shep: Artistic Integrity?

God Kid: Just go with it.

:OThis is priceless.  People need to go back and read the whole thing. 

What I find most confusing, is when the 'Star-child' says at the end "you have more choice than you know!".  Sometimes I wonder if there is a hidden "Paragon or Renegade interrupt" during the whole ending that no-one has found yet. But I don't think there is...

Taking a balanced viewpoint on this for a minute, the ending 'could' be absolute genius and we can't see it, or it could be (as so many people have alread said, including myself) simply doesn't make sense. It is 'possible' that the phrase "you have more choice than you know!" from the catalyst, is a clue to Shepard that he is being indoctrinated. For example, the kid is attempting to convince you that you have a lot of choice, just before he presents you with "only" three choices. But to counter this view, why would the catalyst try and help you choose the 'best' option, when he has a vested interest in continuing with 'his' solution? After all, isn't he trying to kill you?

I think one of the reasons why so many people are complaining about the ending, is that "if" Bioware was trying to tell you it is indoctrination, then the clues given during the end sequence are too subtle, and when the catalysts words are analysed, they are a muddled mix of trying to help the player, and trying to kill the player. The lack of consistency with the dialogue means the player cannot get a handle on whether it is a dream, whether it is real, or otherwise. Some of the problems of the ending dialogue could be solved with a couple of additional sentences. For example, during the conversation with the catalyst, if Shepard had just said "this doesn't feel....quite right", or "something feels...wrong" or perhaps if the player could hear a faint "wake up Shepard" from either his LI, Hackett, or other crew member. This would have at least provided something for the player to doubt what was going on, and have the expectation that this may not be the end of the game. However, as the end is so muddled, and the players expectation that ME3 is really the end for Shepard and his crew, it is leaving many players unsatisfied, confused and cheated. The worse part is finding out that this "may" not be the end, is reading about it from the screen at the end which says "You can continue the Legend through further gameplay and downloadable content", What a let down!

Modifié par T.Attwood, 17 avril 2012 - 09:40 .

[darkway1]

Blazerer wrote...

>Once you enter consumerism nothing that is art has ownership except for the consumers<

You see, consumerism is all about what the Customer wants, not what the seller wants. If the customer wants x and the supplier wants to make money, he makes sure he has x.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ART WHEN COMBINED WITH A MASS MILLION DOLLAR SELLING ITEM

Secondly, consumerism is about truth and honesty. A company that fails to understand this has no right to exist, and should be taken down by the consumer as the consumer should be well-informed.

Thirdly, it is the duty of the supplier of a good or service to ensure that a service or good is of a level that can be expected within that branch of goods. you do not sell a car without brakes, you do not sell bread with unpure ingredients in it.

So why should we accept a game
- that not only didn't meet the expectations that were raised by their own posts
- that flat-out failed to meet the promises made
- from a company that time after time again said it values our opinion, yet when we voice it we are idiots that don't understand their 'art'

'We will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game' - Chris Priestly

Links to topics? pics or it didn't happen?

Well put......I've said time and time again.....Video games are PRODUCTS,they are made to be sold,to make money........in any other industry customer satisfaction is number one,why should the video game industry be any different........a game,like any other product should do exactly what it say's on the tin....simple.

[T.Attwood]

darkway1 wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

>Once you enter consumerism nothing that is art has ownership except for the consumers<

You see, consumerism is all about what the Customer wants, not what the seller wants. If the customer wants x and the supplier wants to make money, he makes sure he has x.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ART WHEN COMBINED WITH A MASS MILLION DOLLAR SELLING ITEM

Secondly, consumerism is about truth and honesty. A company that fails to understand this has no right to exist, and should be taken down by the consumer as the consumer should be well-informed.

Thirdly, it is the duty of the supplier of a good or service to ensure that a service or good is of a level that can be expected within that branch of goods. you do not sell a car without brakes, you do not sell bread with unpure ingredients in it.

So why should we accept a game
- that not only didn't meet the expectations that were raised by their own posts
- that flat-out failed to meet the promises made
- from a company that time after time again said it values our opinion, yet when we voice it we are idiots that don't understand their 'art'

'We will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game' - Chris Priestly

Links to topics? pics or it didn't happen?

Well put......I've said time and time again.....Video games are PRODUCTS,they are made to be sold,to make money........in any other industry customer satisfaction is number one,why should the video game industry be any different........a game,like any other product should do exactly what it say's on the tin....simple.

True. Which is why, when people make the argument of 'the game shouldn't have a Hollywood ending', well the reason why Hollywood tends to make films with happy endings, is because people don't like films that make them feel like crap at the end. They also tend to make less money. We only need to look at many of the responses in this thread and see the number of people who don't want to play the game again after finishing it.

I'm not expecting the game to have all options as a happy ending, but the complete lack of one and being forced to die regardless of all choices taken, defeats the object of a game where you are trying to beat it if you do the right thing. Hence, many of the feelings from players of 'what was the point of spending the last five years playing ME games".

Being made to feel like crap isn't artistic, profound or meaningful. The feeling of 'crap' is telling the player, you have done something wrong. If there is no choice in the game that gives you a 'happy' ending, then your brain will tell you that the only solution to 'not feeling like crap' is to not play the game.
Bioware, please understand, so many people want to play the game but cannot, because of this reason.

Modifié par T.Attwood, 17 avril 2012 - 10:26 .

[darkway1]

T.Attwood wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Blazerer wrote...

>Once you enter consumerism nothing that is art has ownership except for the consumers<

You see, consumerism is all about what the Customer wants, not what the seller wants. If the customer wants x and the supplier wants to make money, he makes sure he has x.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ART WHEN COMBINED WITH A MASS MILLION DOLLAR SELLING ITEM

Secondly, consumerism is about truth and honesty. A company that fails to understand this has no right to exist, and should be taken down by the consumer as the consumer should be well-informed.

Thirdly, it is the duty of the supplier of a good or service to ensure that a service or good is of a level that can be expected within that branch of goods. you do not sell a car without brakes, you do not sell bread with unpure ingredients in it.

So why should we accept a game
- that not only didn't meet the expectations that were raised by their own posts
- that flat-out failed to meet the promises made
- from a company that time after time again said it values our opinion, yet when we voice it we are idiots that don't understand their 'art'

'We will be more than happy to engage in healthy discussions once more people get to experience the game' - Chris Priestly

Links to topics? pics or it didn't happen?

Well put......I've said time and time again.....Video games are PRODUCTS,they are made to be sold,to make money........in any other industry customer satisfaction is number one,why should the video game industry be any different........a game,like any other product should do exactly what it say's on the tin....simple.

True. Which is why, when people make the argument of 'the game shouldn't have a Hollywood ending', well the reason why Hollywood tends to make films with happy endings, is because people don't like films that make them feel like crap at the end. They also tend to make less money. We only need to look at many of the responses in this thread and see the number of people who don't want to play the game again after finishing it.

I'm not expecting the game to have all options as a happy ending, but the complete lack of one and being forced to die regardless of all choices taken, defeats the object of a game where you are trying to beat it if you do the right thing. Hence, many of the feelings from players of 'what was the point of spending the last five years playing ME games".

Being made to feel like crap isn't artistic, profound or meaningful. The feeling of 'crap' is telling the player, you have done something wrong. If there is no choice in the game that gives you a 'happy' ending, then your brain will tell you that the only solution to 'not feeling like crap' is to not play the game.
Bioware, please understand, so many people want to play the game but cannot, because of this reason.

Quote Mass Effect official site.....

"Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome".

At the end of Mass3 my dcisions counted for squat........or is everyone else playing a different game? 

[DraziusA]

I think one of my friends said it best, the only good part about the whole ending sequence is the music that plays while you're talking to Spaceboy. Seriously, that music is freaking epic. The whole soundtrack is actually, I think everyone can agree on that.

[Archonsg]

Search YouTube for deleted scenes, for anyone who thought all this was a clever ploy or a mind frack and really is a prelude to indoctrination, nope. They really planned all along to kill off Shepard and team.

One of the cut scenes have Liara and Garus charging along behind Shepard who watches as both gets incinerated by Harbinger. And so on. Your entire team dies. But, here's the thing from everything you can find, leaked info or cut scenes, it was clear the "artistic" intent was to make it REALLY painful for the player, to put in a sense of despair that right till the end, when you are asked to make those 3 sacrificial choices, it would be you the player who would go "yeah, what the hell, I lost everyone, screw it! Lets do this!"

And from the removed scenes, it seemed that this was THE ONLY vision.

What Mr Hudson and Walters do not seem to understand, is that THIS IS A GAME. Especially so, this particular game, no one is playing so that they would loose.

But if you think back to Thessia, they obviously set Mass Effect up so that Shepard's death, would be the eventual outcome. Or rather, they started the process if setting Shepard's death up. The original team however left enough groundwork for Shepard to still succeed, they cared what happens to Shepard and it shows. Still, going back to Thessia, you can see just how the "artistic vision" of killing Shepard and crew off, starts to assert itself.

Even right up to London, you could still see how the original team had laid the groundwork of "hope" for Shepard. Right up to that charge at the beam, there were enough leeway had the Lead decided to deviate from that single track to destruction.

Its too bad, that for whatever reason, Bioware had decided to go this route and abandoned the thing that made them a household name when it comes to story driven games, that the emotions of the players matter. That being gamers, they will want to explore possibilities with how a game ends and most of all, fondly revisit said game years after release.

I still have the Baldur's gate series which I re-install and replay from time to time. Unless the upcoming EC DLC can pull a miracle and give me a reason to invest time into the game, ME3's non triumphant ending will have essentially killed all desire to revisit the Mass Effect games, and that is what really makes it so sad.

Modifié par Archonsg, 17 avril 2012 - 10:57 .

[Archonsg]

Search YouTube for deleted scenes, for anyone who thought all this was a clever ploy or a mind frack and really is a prelude to indoctrination, nope. They really planned all along to kill off Shepard and team.

One of the cut scenes have Liara and Garus charging along behind Shepard who watches as both gets incinerated by Harbinger. And so on. Your entire team dies. But, here's the thing from everything you can find, leaked info or cut scenes, it was clear the "artistic" intent was to make it REALLY painful for the player, to put in a sense of despair that right till the end, when you ate asked to make those 3 sacrificial choices, it would be you the player who would go "yeah, what the hell, I lost everyone, screw it! Lets do this!"

And from the removed scenes, it seemed that this was THE ONLY vision.

What Mr Hudson and Walters do not seem to understand, is that THIS IS A GAME. Especially so, this particular game, no one is playing so that they would loose.

But if you think back to Thessia, they obviously set Mass Effect up so that Shepard's death, would be the eventual outcome. Or rather, they started the process if setting Shepard's death up. The original team however left enough groundwork for Shepard to still succeed, they cared what happens to Shepard and it shows. Still, going back to Thessia, you can see just how the "artistic vision" of killing Shepard and crew off, starts to assert itself.

Even right up to London, you could still see how the original team had laid the groundwork of "hope" for Shepard. Right up to that charge at the beam, there were enough leeway had the Lead decided to deviate from that single track to destruction.

Its too bad, that for whatever reason, Bioware had decided to go this route and abandoned the thing that made them a household name when it comes to story driven games, that the emotions of the players matter. That being gamers, they will want to explore possibilities with how a game ends and most of all, fondly revisit said game years after release.

I still have the Baldur's gate series which I re-install and replay from time to time. Unless the upcoming EC DLC can pull a miracle and give me a reason to invest time into the game, ME3's non triumphant ending will have essentially killed all desire to revisit the Mass Effect games, and that is what really makes it so sad.

[aprilryan515]

I noticed, that according to System Requirements it reads, the game needs 15 GB of free space to install. After complete installation it has only used up 11.2 GB.

Does this mean that some extensive cutting an heavy changes was made in the final hour of production. Or actually, that the Extended Cut DLC already's in the can and is much more comprehensive then we are led to believe. Or am I just grasping at straws.

Modifié par aprilryan515, 17 avril 2012 - 10:53 .

[T.Attwood]

Archonsg wrote...
One of the cut scenes have Liara and Garus charging along behind Shepard who watches as both gets incinerated by Harbinger. And so on. Your entire team dies. But, here's the thing from everything you can find, leaked info or cut scenes, it was clear the "artistic" intent was to make it REALLY painful for the player, to put in a sense of despair that right till the end, when you ate asked to make those 3 sacrificial choices, it would be you the player who would go "yeah, what the hell, I lost everyone, screw it! Lets do this!" 

That probably would have made more sense than the existing ending, and wouldn't have made the ending so difficult to stomach. However, I must acknowledge that when I see the video with Liara and Garrus, it is ambiguous as the whether they die. It is possible that they are mortally wounded but not dead, which would explain why your team does not go with you into the beam of light. When I play the full game, I did have a look around as to where my team are, because they just seem to vanish prior to the scene where you run to the light. I guess that the reason why that particular scene was deleted, is that if they are mortally wounded, then it would be even more difficult to get your crew onto the Normandy, for that (now) infamous ending scene on the jungle planet.

Modifié par T.Attwood, 17 avril 2012 - 11:18 .

[T.Attwood]

aprilryan515 wrote...

I noticed, that according to System Requirements it reads, the game needs 15 GB of free space to install. After complete installation it has only used up 11.2 GB.

Does this mean that some extensive cutting an heavy changes was made in the final hour of production. Or actually, that the Extended Cut DLC already's in the can and is much more comprehensive then we are led to believe. Or am I just grasping at straws.

I am playing on the Xbox. When I have installed it, the 1st disk is installed on my HDD and occupies 7.6Gb, while the second disk is on my USB, and takes up 7.0Gb. Considering the size of the game, and the size of the disks, it is clear that there isn't much space left on the disks. It is conceivable that many scenes have been cut from the final game due to lack of space (but I am just speculating). Personally, the extended version of the Anderson death scene should hade made it to the final game, where he talks about his lack of family. It makes his dying words "I'm proud of you, son" even more poignant, because at that moment, you are probably the closest thing to living family he has.

Edit: if you are not on Xbox, one reason why your installation only uses up 11.2Gb, it could be the fact that on both disks, there is duplicated information. This is a way of reducing the amount of disk swapping. Maybe your system has removed the duplicate information during installing both disks onto a common source and therefore the complete installation ends up being smaller than its individual parts.

Modifié par T.Attwood, 17 avril 2012 - 11:26 .

[Archonsg]

Btw sorry for the dbl post. I HATE this phone.

[darkway1]

It sounds like there's far more to the ending than what we have been presented with........I think that near the end when you make your last push to get to the citadel,Harbinger fires on your ground crew....and everything goes white as your caught up in the blast.........that's where it should have ended....to be continued....via DLC,Mass4, expansion etc.............instead I feel that from that point on everything is forced and nothing really make sense,it feels detached from the actual game story,a bolt-on after thought,add to that the host of random cut scenes and any normal person has got to ask themselves what the hell kinda ending is that.

Modifié par darkway1, 17 avril 2012 - 11:31 .

[DraziusA]

T.Attwood wrote...

That probably would have made more sense than the existing ending, and wouldn't have made the ending so difficult to stomach. However, I must acknowledge that when I see the video with Liara and Garrus, it is ambiguous as the whether they die. It is possible that they are mortally wounded but not dead, which would explain why your team does not go with you into the beam of light. When I play the full game, I did have a look around as to where my team are, because they just seem to vanish prior to the scene where you run to the light. I guess that the reason why that particular scene was deleted, is that if they are mortally wounded, then it would be even more difficult to get your crew onto the Normandy, for that (now) infamous ending scene on the jungle planet.

If you don't have enough war asset points, you actually see your other two party member's bodies after charging the beam. Or at least, I've seen screenshots that show it.

[darkway1]

DraziusA wrote...

T.Attwood wrote...

That probably would have made more sense than the existing ending, and wouldn't have made the ending so difficult to stomach. However, I must acknowledge that when I see the video with Liara and Garrus, it is ambiguous as the whether they die. It is possible that they are mortally wounded but not dead, which would explain why your team does not go with you into the beam of light. When I play the full game, I did have a look around as to where my team are, because they just seem to vanish prior to the scene where you run to the light. I guess that the reason why that particular scene was deleted, is that if they are mortally wounded, then it would be even more difficult to get your crew onto the Normandy, for that (now) infamous ending scene on the jungle planet.

If you don't have enough war asset points, you actually see your other two party member's bodies after charging the beam. Or at least, I've seen screenshots that show it.

Yes I can confirm,on my first play I stood looking at my LI dead on the floor.....

[Leem_0001]

I've been away from the forums for a couple of weeks - have we heard anything from Bioware regarding the endings, beyond the fact they are polishing the current different coloured turds sometime in the summer?

[Benchpress610]

Archonsg wrote...

Search YouTube for deleted scenes, for anyone who thought all this was a clever ploy or a mind frack and really is a prelude to indoctrination, nope. They really planned all along to kill off Shepard and team.

One of the cut scenes have Liara and Garus charging along behind Shepard who watches as both gets incinerated by Harbinger. And so on. Your entire team dies. But, here's the thing from everything you can find, leaked info or cut scenes, it was clear the "artistic" intent was to make it REALLY painful for the player, to put in a sense of despair that right till the end, when you are asked to make those 3 sacrificial choices, it would be you the player who would go "yeah, what the hell, I lost everyone, screw it! Lets do this!"

And from the removed scenes, it seemed that this was THE ONLY vision.

What Mr Hudson and Walters do not seem to understand, is that THIS IS A GAME. Especially so, this particular game, no one is playing so that they would loose.

But if you think back to Thessia, they obviously set Mass Effect up so that Shepard's death, would be the eventual outcome. Or rather, they started the process if setting Shepard's death up. The original team however left enough groundwork for Shepard to still succeed, they cared what happens to Shepard and it shows. Still, going back to Thessia, you can see just how the "artistic vision" of killing Shepard and crew off, starts to assert itself.

Even right up to London, you could still see how the original team had laid the groundwork of "hope" for Shepard. Right up to that charge at the beam, there were enough leeway had the Lead decided to deviate from that single track to destruction.

Its too bad, that for whatever reason, Bioware had decided to go this route and abandoned the thing that made them a household name when it comes to story driven games, that the emotions of the players matter. That being gamers, they will want to explore possibilities with how a game ends and most of all, fondly revisit said game years after release.

I still have the Baldur's gate series which I re-install and replay from time to time. Unless the upcoming EC DLC can pull a miracle and give me a reason to invest time into the game, ME3's non triumphant ending will have essentially killed all desire to revisit the Mass Effect games, and that is what really makes it so sad.

If this is true, and I’m not saying it’s not, then the word suicide comes to mind. As you very well put it, and I have been harping on this all along, THIS IS A GAME. Apparently Hudson and Walters lost their perspective at some point during the past five years. They tried to turn a game which is intended for entertainment into a Shakespearian tragedy where everybody dies.  Remind me of great artists that tried to destroy their creations. Michelangelo comes to mind. The rub here is 1- that they don’t even approach the genius of Shakespeare or Michelangelo and,  2- gamers while expecting a challenge, they also expect to win.
 
So, they have unintentionally committed suicide as they have killed not only Shepard, but the whole Mass effect universe. The game is un-repayable and I don’t see how any DLC would be appealing to the disgruntled fan base.

[Benchpress610]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Search YouTube for deleted scenes, for anyone who thought all this was a clever ploy or a mind frack and really is a prelude to indoctrination, nope. They really planned all along to kill off Shepard and team.

One of the cut scenes have Liara and Garus charging along behind Shepard who watches as both gets incinerated by Harbinger. And so on. Your entire team dies. But, here's the thing from everything you can find, leaked info or cut scenes, it was clear the "artistic" intent was to make it REALLY painful for the player, to put in a sense of despair that right till the end, when you are asked to make those 3 sacrificial choices, it would be you the player who would go "yeah, what the hell, I lost everyone, screw it! Lets do this!"

And from the removed scenes, it seemed that this was THE ONLY vision.

What Mr Hudson and Walters do not seem to understand, is that THIS IS A GAME. Especially so, this particular game, no one is playing so that they would loose.

But if you think back to Thessia, they obviously set Mass Effect up so that Shepard's death, would be the eventual outcome. Or rather, they started the process if setting Shepard's death up. The original team however left enough groundwork for Shepard to still succeed, they cared what happens to Shepard and it shows. Still, going back to Thessia, you can see just how the "artistic vision" of killing Shepard and crew off, starts to assert itself.

Even right up to London, you could still see how the original team had laid the groundwork of "hope" for Shepard. Right up to that charge at the beam, there were enough leeway had the Lead decided to deviate from that single track to destruction.

Its too bad, that for whatever reason, Bioware had decided to go this route and abandoned the thing that made them a household name when it comes to story driven games, that the emotions of the players matter. That being gamers, they will want to explore possibilities with how a game ends and most of all, fondly revisit said game years after release.

I still have the Baldur's gate series which I re-install and replay from time to time. Unless the upcoming EC DLC can pull a miracle and give me a reason to invest time into the game, ME3's non triumphant ending will have essentially killed all desire to revisit the Mass Effect games, and that is what really makes it so sad.

If this is true, and I’m not saying it’s not, then the word suicide comes to mind. As you very well put it, and I have been harping on this all along, THIS IS A GAME. Apparently Hudson and Walters lost their perspective at some point during the past five years. They tried to turn a game which is intended for entertainment into a Shakespearian tragedy where everybody dies.  This reminds me of great artists that tried to destroy their creations. Michelangelo comes to mind. The rub here is 1- that they don’t even approach the genius of Shakespeare or Michelangelo and,  2- gamers while expecting a challenge, they also expect to win.
 
So, they have unintentionally committed suicide as they have killed not only Shepard, but the whole Mass effect universe. The game is un-repayable and I don’t see how any DLC would be appealing to the disgruntled fan base.

[Benchpress610]

Sorry for the double post

[EthanMetroid]

It sickens me to see what Bioware did to this franchise, ME 1 really took players to places that they have never been to before. ME 2, elaborated on this but never really (to me at least) hit the same tone and themes that's the first one created. What however, bothers me the most is that dispute everything the other two attempted to achieve is completely lost in the ending of ME 3; nothing matters... All those hours invested in the game are completely lost in those five minutes. Nothing you did made/did/invested in is thrown and gone to hell. From Space magic to god-child's to the ending, someone who has never played the first two games would receive the same ending even if they rushed through the game doing no side missions. Don't even get me started as to god child's circlular logic. Thematically ME 3 ending dosen't even make any relative sense to the ideals and tones that the first two created, it's story telling suicide.

Bioware needs to completely reestablish their ending to make logical and co-herent sense, you can't suddenly introduce entirely new ideas and themes that completely ignore everything the first two established in the last 30 seconds of a game. Its revolting and completely stupid to try and change themactically everything the franchise stood for...

They need to re-write the ending, preferably without Casey and Mac input unless they have some sort of storytelling epiphany. If the IT theory is right, then the have room to fix the game with the extended cut, however I'm doubtful. From what I have seen around these boards and among other websites is that unless this Extended Cut delivers, people are going to get angry and when people get angry violence ensues.

[improperdancing]

EugeneBi wrote...

improperdancing wrote...

Netherspin wrote...
Your "fact" is just flat out wrong.
There will be a fanbase. Bioware is still the undisputed champions of storytelling. Blizzard comes close with the StarCraft series (broodwar in particular), but apart from that noone is even close to Bioware when it comes to building a game around an immersive story with a huge and facinating universe.

Ever heard of this company called Valve?  Portal 2 is the single most impressive story mode I've ever experienced in a video game.  It's literally like playing through a Pixar film.  As good as the Mass Effect games have been, they don't even come close to the story-telling quality evident in Portal 2.

Personally, I wouldn't put Blizzard in the same league as either Valve or BioWare, and there are several other companies I would put ahead of Blizzard as well.  Blizzard has made some great games, but their writing has always been pretty cheesy.  Not that that's a bad thing, it just puts them in a class below the real heavy-hitters in videogame storytelling.

There is a difference between Valve and BioWare. I love Valve games - all of them - but the story is on the rails there. There other games with choices and forks - Vampire Masquerade the Bloodlines, both Witchers, Alpha Protocol (mediocre in general but for different reason than lack of variability) - to name a few. BioWare used to be the best of them.

I don't see how being on rails invalidates amazing writing, direction, and voice acting.  Sure, it makes the game inherently easier to develop, but it doesn't take anything away from the story.  It's simply a design decision.  And obviously it's a design decision that paid off, because Portal 2 had a great ending, whereas most other games that give you a ton of choices throughout lose steam at the end (see: Mass Effect 3, Human Revolution, Fallout 3, and more) because it's impossible for the developers to properly account for all the choices you've made.

[DivineDrake]

I really like the entire mass effect franchise but then I watch this video and I see that this guy who posted the video has a lot of good points. I m not sure if this video has been posted in any other forum on this social webpage but here it is