23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Archonsg]

@benchpress610
Just speculation on my part, based on what little has been leaked, reading, watching dev blog videos and that latest PAX East panel thing. Smug hardly even describes it. Hubris maybe.

[3DandBeyond]

EugeneBi wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

Ralph The Wonder Llama wrote...

Unfortunaly something great was taken away from us, the fans. 

See, this is what I inherently disagree with.

EA can't take what isn't yours to begin with.  The fans owned absoutely jack s*** of this IP, narrative, characters, etc.  EA screwed themselves over, but ya know what... it was entirely their right to do so.  You have every right to not like it, make your displeasure clear, and eventually walk away if you don't feel your concerns were addressed, and you should.

But you have absolutely no right to claim ownership of anything.  Because it's not yours, and it never was.

This is true only until they promise something. After they did, we have their word, and they have to deliver. When they promised and took my money we are in contract they must not break - I have the right to demand fulfilment or money back. I see neither.

Thing is even if they didn't actually promise anything (which they did), there is an implicit promise when you create a series of anything.  To be effective and well-received, it should live up to those things that came before in the series.  There's also something called logic (not referring to the lack thereof within the endings).  It's the knowledge that you want to uphold the standards of the previous things in the series because you know if you don't, it won't be received well. 

And, make no mistake videogame companies rely on replay value because that drives DLC purchases.  Just as some movies depend somewhat on DVD and other licensed item sales.

I think at this point it only makes sense for them to be re-evaluating just where things went wrong.  But, it would also mean a revamping of the ending which they don't want to do.  I'd buy into the Indocrination thing if it meant that it was to try and get Shepard to pick Conrol or Synthesis and that s/he did pick Destroy, but Indoctrination was still trying to show that things would turn out badly with this choice.  The breath Shepard takes is upon waking up from Indoctrination-s/he never physically went up the beam to make the choice.  And, in reality the destroy choice didn't cause the massive destruction of relays and so on.  It just destroyed the reapers and maybe the Citadel.  Shepard was the Catalyst and the star-kid was the Indoctrination attempt at controlling him/her-the reapers used his/her own thoughts to stop destruction.  They planted the idea of the kid long ago to put a human face and give an emotional tie in on their attempts to stop Shepard.  Since Cerberus already had some ties to reaper tech which could phone home and Cerberus knew of the blueprints at the Mars Archives, it's very likely that the reapers knew attempts would be made to build the crucible before the others did.  They directed TIM to go after it.  They used TIM's image to make Shepard turn away from the Control option.  Everything they did pointed to the Synthesis option as being the best choice-they used the Starkid to say so basically. 

All of it until Shepard gasps is still indoctrination (except the choice is real because Shepard just needed his/her consciousness to get to the crucible to activate the choice).  Joker running away is a fear in Shepard's mind.  Seeing the LI and some teammates land on an unknown planet (some would die because it couldn't support their type of life) would be a metaphor for what would happen if the Mass Relays and other reaper/prothean based tech are destroyed.  Life would be left stranded and be back in the Stone Age.

The chatter on the radio after the reaper beam hits Shepard where they say no one made it to the beam to get up to the Citadel is the truth.  NO ONE DID, physically.  Anderson is just Shepard's conscience trying to drive him/her on.  TIM is a spoiler, trying to stop Shepard or keep him/her from making a decision the reapers don't want made.  Hackett's voice does come over Shepard's radio, as he/she lay in a pile of rubble in London.  But, in the end it's Shepard's mind that connects with the crucible and makes the decision.  That's how his/her body can end up in the rubble at the end-that's when s/he wakes up from indoctrination.

[Benchpress610]

Archonsg wrote...

@benchpress610
Just speculation on my part, based on what little has been leaked, reading, watching dev blog videos and that latest PAX East panel thing. Smug hardly even describes it. Hubris maybe.

It does make sense though. Unfortunately their hubris will bring about their downfall. The sad part is they’ re bringing Mass Effect down with them.

[GIEV DIZ PEEPHOLE AEYR]

this pretty much explains biowares behavior

[Orumon]

Benchpress610 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

@benchpress610
Just speculation on my part, based on what little has been leaked, reading, watching dev blog videos and that latest PAX East panel thing. Smug hardly even describes it. Hubris maybe.

It does make sense though. Unfortunately their hubris will bring about their downfall. The sad part is they’ re bringing Mass Effect down with them.

Nah, the mass effect series has already been trampled into the dirt. Sadly, unlike DA2, this is their last great series.

Now that they've gone out of their way to destroy it what's going to hold them up.

[TsubakiYayoi]

Anyone remember which company was the publisher of ME1? Never thought I´d hear myself say that I actually want them back -.-

[DazenCobalt17]

TsubakiYayoi wrote...

Anyone remember which company was the publisher of ME1? Never thought I´d hear myself say that I actually want them back -.-

Microsoft I believe

[LiarasShield]

eh well I don't know if I wanted microsoft to keep making the mass effects cause then us ps3 fans would've never had a chance to play such awesome games though I do think that perhaps a better company then ea should've worked with bioware at least on the final parts of me3 then ea....

[Holger1405]

Archonsg wrote...

Search YouTube for deleted scenes, for anyone who thought all this was a clever ploy or a mind frack and really is a prelude to indoctrination, nope. They really planned all along to kill off Shepard and team.

One of the cut scenes have Liara and Garus charging along behind Shepard who watches as both gets incinerated by Harbinger. And so on. Your entire team dies. But, here's the thing from everything you can find, leaked info or cut scenes, it was clear the "artistic" intent was to make it REALLY painful for the player, to put in a sense of despair that right till the end, when you ate asked to make those 3 sacrificial choices, it would be you the player who would go "yeah, what the hell, I lost everyone, screw it! Lets do this!"

nothing but pure speculation.

Archonsg wrote...
And from the removed scenes, it seemed that this was THE ONLY vision.

again, nothing but pure speculation.

Archonsg wrote...
What Mr Hudson and Walters do not seem to understand, is that THIS IS A GAME. Especially so, this particular game, no one is playing so that they would loose.

Defeating the Reapers isn't loosing, even when you have to die, but it's not even given that Shepard has to die. 

Archonsg wrote...
But if you think back to Thessia, they obviously set Mass Effect up so that Shepard's death, would be the eventual outcome. Or rather, they started the process if setting Shepard's death up. The original team however left enough groundwork for Shepard to still succeed, they cared what happens to Shepard and it shows. Still, going back to Thessia, you can see just how the "artistic vision" of killing Shepard and crew off, starts to assert itself.

Again, a lot speculation, but yes they set up the possibility of Shepards dead, because it is a option, yet aging, not a given outcome.

Archonsg wrote...Even right up to London, you could still see how the original team had laid the groundwork of "hope" for Shepard. Right up to that charge at the beam, there were enough leeway had the Lead decided to deviate from that single track to destruction.

Well yes, because there is Hope. If you made the "right" decisions, Sheppard and crew will survive. 

Archonsg wrote...
Its too bad, that for whatever reason, Bioware had decided to go this route and abandoned the thing that made them a household name when it comes to story driven games, that the emotions of the players matter. That being gamers, they will want to explore possibilities with how a game ends and most of all, fondly revisit said game years after release.

You can like the endings or not, but if you think that ME3 isn't a game where the emotions of the players matter, you played another Game.

[Netherspin]

Blazerer wrote...

>Once you enter consumerism nothing that is art has ownership except for the consumers<

You see, consumerism is all about what the Customer wants, not what the seller wants. If the customer wants x and the supplier wants to make money, he makes sure he has x.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ART WHEN COMBINED WITH A MASS MILLION DOLLAR SELLING ITEM

J.K. Rowling, James Cameron and countless others beg to differ.

Edit: Games are not set aside from the art-scene. You can make art in games just as you can in books, movies, clay or the canvas. And like all other art, the viewer is free to like or dislike it... and if you dislike it that much, then stop buying works from the artist in question.

Modifié par Netherspin, 17 avril 2012 - 02:11 .

[3DandBeyond]

That's the point. The games put your emotions at the forefront. You are fully expected to be emotionally committed to them. You hate, you fear, you love, you laugh and cry and all the rest all along the way. The games are very good at eliciting these responses. And then, at the end you are left with basically 2 emotions (2 main ones, there are more of course). You are left with disgust and dispair. Along with those 2 feelings, you are also left feeling kind of empty. Imagine if the reviews stated these things about the endings. That's not the kind of warm and fuzzy or sad and yet satisfied moments that can catapult a game into legendary status. It just leaves one with a sense of revulsion.

I think, whether you appreciate in hindsight some of the sappiness of the movie, that Titanic sets the right tone at the end, for a movie that can't have a happy ending.  You don't expect sugary sweetness because it is a story about tragedy and one survivor amidst the debris.  But, the end is bittersweet.  You see the life she led that she might not ever have had if Titanic had not happened-that made the ultimate end less sad.

And, why can't the artisitic part of the game be a sum total and not a cliffhanger ending?  I still say that the way to do artistic right can be seen in the ending of Six Feet Under.  Nothing about that is super happy, but it is so satisfying.  You cared about the people and you see where they went after they left you.  It was artistic and at points it was about happiness on the way to the ultimate end.  The fact that everyone died made sense because it was in context with what the rest of the series was all about.

Artistic doesn't mean you have to show everything, but you have to allow for logical inferences to be made from what you've presented.  We may see it differently, but we need context in which to "buy" into what you are selling.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 17 avril 2012 - 02:19 .

[LiarasShield]

still the series as a whole has always been about making your own choices and getting a ending that resulted in your actions and your performance and that is what didn't happen here and major plot holes where circular logic by a advanced ai or god child can be easily dismissed since it was proven wrong twice and characters and the crew being broken or doing actions that they would most likely never do since they didn't do anything similar to those in the past mass effects so it really does leave a giant gaping hole and you know when I played god of war 3 I could accept the cliff hanger about if kratos lived or died but the ending was done well characters weren't broken and there weren't gaping plotholes so eh I just don't think the final chapter of this story should be so horribly tarnished....

Modifié par LiarasShield, 17 avril 2012 - 02:20 .

[Netherspin]

DazenCobalt17 wrote...

TsubakiYayoi wrote...

Anyone remember which company was the publisher of ME1? Never thought I´d hear myself say that I actually want them back -.-

Microsoft I believe

According to the opening splash in my ME1 it's ... EA.

[darky00]

EA on pc if i remember. At first it was Bioware and Microsoft on Xbox 360.

[LiarasShield]

1 for the money 2 for the death 3 to get ready and blow up the geth yay yay no not so much U-u

[3DandBeyond]

I think MS still holds onto publishing rights-that EA does own it, but does its distribution. They are prohibited from porting it to anything but an MS platform due to MS's rights to it.  EA just must adhere to contracts Bioware and MS made before EA bought Bioware.  They own the game, but just can't do anything with it that goes against these prior contracts.

And, LiaraShield, I absolutely agree with you. I didn't mean to imply that every ending must have a complete wrap up so you know all that happens afterwards. A little imagination as to what comes next is great.

And, not all endings have to be happy ones in the truest sense. I can see the possibility of having several truly bittersweet ones that show and appreciate the impact of the ultimate sacrifice Shepard and all the rest made. Putting them to rest, so to speak. I can also see the possibility of Shepard surviving but learning of the ultimate sacrifice made by those closest to him/her and the appreciation of that. And I can also see another choice where Shepard gets what for me would be the ultimate fulfilling reward for all that s/he has done-a life with friends and the LI. The endings in and of themselves are not artistic, but the way in which they play out can be so very artistic, tastefully done.

No matter which ending would play out, some of my choices should naturally lead the game to them. It's kind of the way I see Paragon and Renegade having meaning-if you are always the Paragon, it's like you always choose non-confrontational approaches. You mull things over too much and never just act. But, if you are always a Renegade, you are too impulsive and don't think of consequences. Either one could lead to your death more than a measured approach-Paragon when you should be, Renegade when you have to be.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 17 avril 2012 - 02:31 .

[LiarasShield]

yeah 3dandbeyond I do agree I'm just like saying that our performance and actions should have a affect end their should be at least a shot a good ending that is hard to achieve and then the regular sad ending but at least have our actions matter and at least have our love interest care in some way cause of our loss or return you know

[TsubakiYayoi]

Netherspin wrote...

DazenCobalt17 wrote...

TsubakiYayoi wrote...

Anyone remember which company was the publisher of ME1? Never thought I´d hear myself say that I actually want them back -.-

Microsoft I believe

According to the opening splash in my ME1 it's ... EA.

I don´t know for PC but at 360 its MS only plus no EA in the credits at all

[Netherspin]

3DandBeyond wrote...

That's the point. The games put your emotions at the forefront. You are fully expected to be emotionally committed to them. You hate, you fear, you love, you laugh and cry and all the rest all along the way. The games are very good at eliciting these responses. And then, at the end you are left with basically 2 emotions (2 main ones, there are more of course). You are left with disgust and dispair. Along with those 2 feelings, you are also left feeling kind of empty. Imagine if the reviews stated these things about the endings. That's not the kind of warm and fuzzy or sad and yet satisfied moments that can catapult a game into legendary status. It just leaves one with a sense of revulsion.

I wasn't left with disgust at all - sadness boardering on dispair, indeed, but no disgust.
The enemy is gone - dead (guess which ending I prefer). Shepard paid the ultimate price for the survival of the species of the current cycle, and the galaxe as a whole pays the price of the relays as well in exchange for their lives. I was sad to see Shepard die, indeed, but I wasn't disgusted and on a large scale, it is actually a happy ending... life goes on. Victory came at a high price, but the war is won and organics will shape their own future - and for the first time since the beginning of the cycle the direction is not dictated by the reapers by means of the relays or the citadel.

[LiarasShield]

still waiting till summer does kinda bite lol

[LiarasShield]

well still player control and performance being ripped out of the players hands in the last 10 minutes just isn't cool and you'd think that the more you prepared the more war assets you get you could at least get a shot at a good ending just a shot but no not really since all endings end the same way except for the good destroy ending where shepard takes a breath but I do wonder if the extended dlc will at least clarifie if shepard does live in that ending or just runs out of oxygen and die right there

[Archonsg]

Holger1405 wrote...

Archonsg wrote...

Search YouTube for deleted scenes, for anyone who thought all this was a clever ploy or a mind frack and really is a prelude to indoctrination, nope. They really planned all along to kill off Shepard and team.

One of the cut scenes have Liara and Garus charging along behind Shepard who watches as both gets incinerated by Harbinger. And so on. Your entire team dies. But, here's the thing from everything you can find, leaked info or cut scenes, it was clear the "artistic" intent was to make it REALLY painful for the player, to put in a sense of despair that right till the end, when you ate asked to make those 3 sacrificial choices, it would be you the player who would go "yeah, what the hell, I lost everyone, screw it! Lets do this!"

nothing but pure speculation.

Archonsg wrote...
And from the removed scenes, it seemed that this was THE ONLY vision.

again, nothing but pure speculation.

Archonsg wrote...
What Mr Hudson and Walters do not seem to understand, is that THIS IS A GAME. Especially so, this particular game, no one is playing so that they would loose.

Defeating the Reapers isn't loosing, even when you have to die, but it's not even given that Shepard has to die. 

Archonsg wrote...
But if you think back to Thessia, they obviously set Mass Effect up so that Shepard's death, would be the eventual outcome. Or rather, they started the process if setting Shepard's death up. The original team however left enough groundwork for Shepard to still succeed, they cared what happens to Shepard and it shows. Still, going back to Thessia, you can see just how the "artistic vision" of killing Shepard and crew off, starts to assert itself.

Again, a lot speculation, but yes they set up the possibility of Shepards dead, because it is a option, yet aging, not a given outcome.

Archonsg wrote...Even right up to London, you could still see how the original team had laid the groundwork of "hope" for Shepard. Right up to that charge at the beam, there were enough leeway had the Lead decided to deviate from that single track to destruction.

Well yes, because there is Hope. If you made the "right" decisions, Sheppard and crew will survive. 

Archonsg wrote...
Its too bad, that for whatever reason, Bioware had decided to go this route and abandoned the thing that made them a household name when it comes to story driven games, that the emotions of the players matter. That being gamers, they will want to explore possibilities with how a game ends and most of all, fondly revisit said game years after release.

You can like the endings or not, but if you think that ME3 isn't a game where the emotions of the players matter, you played another Game.

I guess you missed that later post where I did say it's speculation on my part. Since that's clarified, no need to dwell on it, yes?

As for that last bit, way to just read one line and not the rest of the paragraph. If I as a gamer wanted to feel ****ty, I don't have to pay $80.00 for a game to do that. I'll just volunteer to work with social services dealing with broken homes and children from said homes. Which, is rather funny really, since every once in a while, you get a case so screwed up, you'd think the child is a lost cause but his (or her) determination helps dig that child out of poverty and you go "booooyeahhh!" So, even in "real life" even when things are dire, sometimes, things end well.

That was what I personally wanted for Shepard. Its a game. The world already has enough depressing situations, do we really to pay for a game that takes all hope of winning, of over coming the odds to stand tall and victorious?

I don't.

And neither should anyone else.

Just add in more choices. Those happy with the current ending, good for you. The rest of us would want a chance to fight the Reapers, win, retire with our love interest. Is that too much to ask?

[3DandBeyond]

LiarasShield wrote...

yeah 3dandbeyond I do agree I'm just like saying that our performance and actions should have a affect end their should be at least a shot a good ending that is hard to achieve and then the regular sad ending but at least have our actions matter and at least have our love interest care in some way cause of our loss or return you know

I absolutely agree with this.  As it is, it's like no one even cared at the end-there's no scene showing emotion of anyone, knowing that a lot of stuff just went to hell (I pick Destroy) and that Shepard most likely paid the ultimate price along with others.

My disgust is from the incredulity of the starkid and circular logic and then 3 color choices that mostly lead to sadness and no realization or play out of the aftermath.  That's my disgust.  It's from playing the games and caring only to be left with a void at the end.  Disgust may be a little harsh and I know isn't what everyone feels, often it's more of a "what the feck?!" kind of feeling.  I just feel disgust at being left hanging like that.

And, about who owns ME1-I think it may depend upon when you bought the game and the version of it.  My PC version says EA on the box and on the splash screens.  It's linked to EA support. 

[LiarasShield]

I thought turians had reach and flexibility arch lol jk

[LiarasShield]

I mean joker wouldn't abandon like that without even knowing if your dead or not I mean the collector base coming to save you and crew as your ass is getting shot at again soverign and your love interest who cares about you  I doubt she or he would just leave you behind like that espically liara since she gave shepards body to cerberus just to bring him or her back so that their could be a mass effect 2 I mean come on

Modifié par LiarasShield, 17 avril 2012 - 02:48 .