23455 réponses à ce sujet

[darkway1]

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Well I tried to drop knowledge on you all and as normal get called a troll. Perhaps ladies and gents you all need to take a good long look in the mirror to find who the true trolls are.

Hopefully, my last direct comment to you.  You truly need to expand your thinking.  You didn't drop knowledge on anyone-in order to accept what you call logic all of the plot holes would require buckets of mortar to fill.

We must decide to change every known variable we have already defined in all 3 games in order to accept and explain how the endings play out.  But, at the same time, we cannot use new knowledge gained within the game to demand other choices from the star kid.  You say he's fast at thinking and changing things up (we are stupid because we don't know how fast computers are), so why can't your character protest the 3 choices and suggest others based upon his/her experiences and sacrifices?  I guess it isn't that fast after all.

You really need to get real and explore all the plot holes and try to understand what they are.  Up till now you've just accepted things and then filled in the blanks to fit.  But, there are way too many holes.  And don't insult our collective intelligence by saying we just don't understand.  I understand completely. 

You don't get that futility completely shuts off any good feeling/replayability of these games.  If the ending is about futility, then it's futile for me to play it ever again.  And that is what we have now.  You go play the games again, all the games, and see just how much things change for you and then try and tell me it isn't all futile.

  Did I answer it ??? Nope . You know why? cause it was your honest opinion and not as closed off as most. My mind is open. Maybe more than
most. I just dont see things the same.


This is the ending
we have. It isnt going to change massively. So the question your going to
have to ask yourself is can you live with it? please try to not use
melodrama. I really dislike the  bioware you betrayed you and I will see you destroyed! Posts
that unfold in here. If you are that worked up over a game maybe you
need to find other things to do for while. No I am not saying you are
one of these people.

We are NOT happy about the ending and we express our views here in a thread created for people who are not happy with the ending............we are doing so in a nice way,the community here is great and as a whole the opinions given can be justified.

..................because of the people here in this thread we have free DLC coming to explain more about the present endings.......you should not be provoking people..........you should be thanking them.

[b2smooth]

3DandBeyond wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

you know I'm glad some of them can accept the ending what pissses me off though is that they personally can't see the flaws in the ending and of the final game it's self that is what pisses me off it is almost like they closed their eyes to the other 2 games and like i have said before you can like the ending but don't insult our intelligence for the reasons we don't like the ending

It isn't that they can't see the flaws.  It's the fact they do see the flaws and they try to explain them away as if they do make complete sense.  It's like if I have a discussion with someone over a baseball.  I say it's a baseball.  The other guy says it's a horse.  I explain why it's a baseball.  It's round, has stitching, gets hit by a bat.  It isn't alive, and so on. And the other guy says "well, it could be a horse if..it had 4 legs, breathed, neighed, had a tail, hair, and looked like one."  All I can keep saying is it isn't a horse, it's a baseball.  By now, the guy has convinced himself because he wants it to be so and he wants to be right, that it is a horse after all.

It is egotistical denial.  They feel insulted that most people didn't like the ending so they become defensive.  They have the attitude, "well I wrote it so who are you guys to tell me it's not good...it makes perfect sense to me...you just don't understand it".

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

3dand again they make the big giant assumptions again that alot of the fans are mad because it was a sad ending not because of plotholes or breaking of characters or introducing a new characters with flawed logic that tries to explain the reapers when their is no need for it and forcing shepard to make one of his or her choices instead of him or her deciding that pretty much the ai and joker abandoning the fight when it would never happen are the two sequences that either make no sense or would never happen if these two things were fixed then yes I can accept shepards death or the crews for that matter but it isn't a awesome bittersweet ending it is a bittersweet ending that makes no sense and leaves the player hollow at least the ones that have feelings are devoted to the characters and can see the problems

So the AI is using flawed logic? How? Other then the extreme stupidity
of saying it created the reapers (that was just bad writing and stupid)
what was the bad logic? The machine always kill the organic? It was
fact for well forever before Shepard. Cause truthfully that's all it said.

[LiarasShield]

these are problems that I can not let go of you obviously take me for a villiage idiot to accept these things

[LiarasShield]

look here thanatos why even have the ability to unite the geth or quarians together if this logic ring true why would the reapers even if the ai didn't create them but control them then wouldn't the reapers rebel like he himself suggested and destroy the plans for the crucible or the catalyst before hand

[LiarasShield]

please stop trying to be so dense

[LiarasShield]

and this isn't fact either thanatos cause you know why if the geth personally wanted to destroy the qurians they could've done it because they have the technology to do so

[Thanatos144]

darkway1 wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

Well I tried to drop knowledge on you all and as normal get called a troll. Perhaps ladies and gents you all need to take a good long look in the mirror to find who the true trolls are.

Hopefully, my last direct comment to you.  You truly need to expand your thinking.  You didn't drop knowledge on anyone-in order to accept what you call logic all of the plot holes would require buckets of mortar to fill.

We must decide to change every known variable we have already defined in all 3 games in order to accept and explain how the endings play out.  But, at the same time, we cannot use new knowledge gained within the game to demand other choices from the star kid.  You say he's fast at thinking and changing things up (we are stupid because we don't know how fast computers are), so why can't your character protest the 3 choices and suggest others based upon his/her experiences and sacrifices?  I guess it isn't that fast after all.

You really need to get real and explore all the plot holes and try to understand what they are.  Up till now you've just accepted things and then filled in the blanks to fit.  But, there are way too many holes.  And don't insult our collective intelligence by saying we just don't understand.  I understand completely. 

You don't get that futility completely shuts off any good feeling/replayability of these games.  If the ending is about futility, then it's futile for me to play it ever again.  And that is what we have now.  You go play the games again, all the games, and see just how much things change for you and then try and tell me it isn't all futile.

  Did I answer it ??? Nope . You know why? cause it was your honest opinion and not as closed off as most. My mind is open. Maybe more than
most. I just dont see things the same.


This is the ending
we have. It isnt going to change massively. So the question your going to
have to ask yourself is can you live with it? please try to not use
melodrama. I really dislike the  bioware you betrayed you and I will see you destroyed! Posts
that unfold in here. If you are that worked up over a game maybe you
need to find other things to do for while. No I am not saying you are
one of these people.

We are NOT happy about the ending and we express our views here in a thread created for people who are not happy with the ending............we are doing so in a nice way,the community here is great and as a whole the opinions given can be justified.

..................because of the people here in this thread we have free DLC coming to explain more about the present endings.......you should not be provoking people..........you should be thanking them.

Well to be precise it is a thread for telling our favorite part. But I
get your gist. It is a discussion forum though. We are discussing things...Well some of are the rest are just stating things pro or con.
The only problem we seem to have is the fact that stating you like the
ending and explaining why automatically means you are a troll cause you
dare to go against the majority in this thread. I made sure that was seen cause I dont think your are all the majority of the fan base. Opinion.

[LiarasShield]

The only reason the geth attack shepard and rest from the git go is because soverign and harbinger rewrote the heretics making them attack shepard and the quarians it wasn't their choice they weren't rebeling because they wanted to they only rebelled because the reapers were making them

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

look here thanatos why even have the ability to unite the geth or quarians together if this logic ring true why would the reapers even if the ai didn't create them but control them then wouldn't the reapers rebel like he himself suggested and destroy the plans for the crucible or the catalyst before hand

Oh my. Okay . The Quarians and geth are the first to ever come to a peace. So explain again how the catalyst had failed logic if it has never seen this before?

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

The only reason the geth attack shepard and rest from the git go is because soverign and harbinger rewrote the heretics making them attack shepard and the quarians it wasn't their choice they weren't rebeling because they wanted to they only rebelled because the reapers were making them

No actually they rebelled to stay alive seeing as their creators tried committing genocide. The reapers using them isnt the cause of their
rebellion.

[LiarasShield]

so again thanatos you really hold no cards to prove that the ais logic made any sense the geth retreated from the quarians because the qurians where having inbattles between wether destroying the geth or saving them the geth only went away so that they wouldn't have to fight with the creators anymore

[LiarasShield]

so no the ais logic still does not make any sense and they have had the technology to destroy the quarians and the geth for a long time now that geth dreadnaught already proved it thanatos if they wanted to wipe out the quarians or even humans for that matter they could've already have done it

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

3dand again they make the big giant assumptions again that alot of the fans are mad because it was a sad ending not because of plotholes or breaking of characters or introducing a new characters with flawed logic that tries to explain the reapers when their is no need for it and forcing shepard to make one of his or her choices instead of him or her deciding that pretty much the ai and joker abandoning the fight when it would never happen are the two sequences that either make no sense or would never happen if these two things were fixed then yes I can accept shepards death or the crews for that matter but it isn't a awesome bittersweet ending it is a bittersweet ending that makes no sense and leaves the player hollow at least the ones that have feelings are devoted to the characters and can see the problems

So the AI is using flawed logic? How? Other then the extreme stupidity
of saying it created the reapers (that was just bad writing and stupid)
what was the bad logic? The machine always kill the organic? It was
fact for well forever before Shepard. Cause truthfully that's all it said.

Ok, breaking my own rule not to answer what has already been answered.

The created will always rebel against the creator (and ultimately destroy the creator) is not and never has been the only, ultimate theme in stories devoted to organic/inorganic themes.  Not always considered the ultimate outcome.  And certainly no one has postulated before now that if this were the case then the only way to prevent this is to destroy advanced organic life.

Get it?  The star kid says they (synthetics) must destroy advanced organics to keep synthetics from destroying them.  Explain this "logic".  Talk about the ultimate no win situation.  Along with this they purposely leave reaper tech lying around-the very thing that in fact helps organics to develop synthetics is left for them to use.  So, not only will we destroy organics to keep the synthetics they might independently develop from destroying them, but we will destroy them for using the tech we left for them to use.  WTF?!!!!!!!!!

To put it simply, you eat cookies made from your own recipe and I will kill you so you don't die from eating the cookies.  Furthermore, if you eat the cookies I left laying around for no real reason, I will kill you so you don't die from eating the cookies.  And, you have no choice in the matter because ultimately you will eat the cookies.

[Shepard needs a Vacation]

Bioware you never listened If you had listened we wouldn't be here, Your corporate masters at EA have ruined your company and your best series yet, and you think we didn't see it. Us gamers are a smart bunch. All I have to say is Rachni, Rachni, Rachni, Rachni. Why did you do this to us????

[LiarasShield]

you're losing this battle thanatos the created logic doesn't work with the geth nor does it work with this trilogy or even anyhting that could ever happen in real life if stuff like this ever did occur

Modifié par LiarasShield, 18 avril 2012 - 03:20 .

[Thanatos144]

LiarasShield wrote...

so again thanatos you really hold no cards to prove that the ais logic made any sense the geth retreated from the quarians because the qurians where having inbattles between wether destroying the geth or saving them the geth only went away so that they wouldn't have to fight with the creators anymore

They kicked the Quarians off their own planet.......Thats not retreat,
They were just not like their creators and didn't try to commit genocide.

[darkway1]

b2smooth wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

you know I'm glad some of them can accept the ending what pissses me off though is that they personally can't see the flaws in the ending and of the final game it's self that is what pisses me off it is almost like they closed their eyes to the other 2 games and like i have said before you can like the ending but don't insult our intelligence for the reasons we don't like the ending

It isn't that they can't see the flaws.  It's the fact they do see the flaws and they try to explain them away as if they do make complete sense.  It's like if I have a discussion with someone over a baseball.  I say it's a baseball.  The other guy says it's a horse.  I explain why it's a baseball.  It's round, has stitching, gets hit by a bat.  It isn't alive, and so on. And the other guy says "well, it could be a horse if..it had 4 legs, breathed, neighed, had a tail, hair, and looked like one."  All I can keep saying is it isn't a horse, it's a baseball.  By now, the guy has convinced himself because he wants it to be so and he wants to be right, that it is a horse after all.

It is egotistical denial.  They feel insulted that most people didn't like the ending so they become defensive.  They have the attitude, "well I wrote it so who are you guys to tell me it's not good...it makes perfect sense to me...you just don't understand it".

We will find out the answer's one day I guess..........for me you just have to compare story lines....the Krogan story ending for example is a work of art,it ends fantastic,logical and people even die but it all works amazing...........Shepards ending however is just a mess.......some thing went wrong.....was the ending to be continued via DLC??......has the fan backlash changed future DLC???...........it will be vey interesting to see where the franchise goes from here..........can there even be a Mass4..........if you pick the green ending,it kinda changes the universe.

[3DandBeyond]

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

look here thanatos why even have the ability to unite the geth or quarians together if this logic ring true why would the reapers even if the ai didn't create them but control them then wouldn't the reapers rebel like he himself suggested and destroy the plans for the crucible or the catalyst before hand

Oh my. Okay . The Quarians and geth are the first to ever come to a peace. So explain again how the catalyst had failed logic if it has never seen this before?

You stated it yourself-computers are super fast.  The star kid should have caught on quick and understood that this was possible.  The Geth caught on quickly enough.  The imperfect super slow Quarians managed to catch on.  Why can't your super fast omnipotent, overwhelmingly smart computer kid have conceived of this as a possibility (it's older than the slow learning geth) ever?  Or, being super de dooper fast, why couldn't it have understood this as the crucible was being moved or between the time it took place and Shepard ascends to the Citadel?  Computers are fast, you know.

Even so, they were not the first.  EDI, Joker, Shepard-real example that occurred first.  And it wasn't even coexistence, it was cooperation-a more altruistic impulse.  A higher purpose if you will.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 18 avril 2012 - 03:23 .

[xaurabh123]

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

look here thanatos why even have the ability to unite the geth or quarians together if this logic ring true why would the reapers even if the ai didn't create them but control them then wouldn't the reapers rebel like he himself suggested and destroy the plans for the crucible or the catalyst before hand

Oh my. Okay . The Quarians and geth are the first to ever come to a peace. So explain again how the catalyst had failed logic if it has never seen this before?

thats why the catalyst wrong. he couldnot even guess

[LiarasShield]

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

so again thanatos you really hold no cards to prove that the ais logic made any sense the geth retreated from the quarians because the qurians where having inbattles between wether destroying the geth or saving them the geth only went away so that they wouldn't have to fight with the creators anymore

They kicked the Quarians off their own planet.......Thats not retreat,
They were just not like their creators and didn't try to commit genocide.

The quarians started the war with the geth and because of it most of their planet or cities were destroyed the geth went into deep space so they wouldn't have to fight the creators anymore because they never wanted to fight them did you not do legions side mission during when tali joined on the normandy in mass effect 3?

[Thanatos144]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Thanatos144 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

3dand again they make the big giant assumptions again that alot of the fans are mad because it was a sad ending not because of plotholes or breaking of characters or introducing a new characters with flawed logic that tries to explain the reapers when their is no need for it and forcing shepard to make one of his or her choices instead of him or her deciding that pretty much the ai and joker abandoning the fight when it would never happen are the two sequences that either make no sense or would never happen if these two things were fixed then yes I can accept shepards death or the crews for that matter but it isn't a awesome bittersweet ending it is a bittersweet ending that makes no sense and leaves the player hollow at least the ones that have feelings are devoted to the characters and can see the problems

So the AI is using flawed logic? How? Other then the extreme stupidity
of saying it created the reapers (that was just bad writing and stupid)
what was the bad logic? The machine always kill the organic? It was
fact for well forever before Shepard. Cause truthfully that's all it said.

Ok, breaking my own rule not to answer what has already been answered.

The created will always rebel against the creator (and ultimately destroy the creator) is not and never has been the only, ultimate theme in stories devoted to organic/inorganic themes.  Not always considered the ultimate outcome.  And certainly no one has postulated before now that if this were the case then the only way to prevent this is to destroy advanced organic life.

Get it?  The star kid says they (synthetics) must destroy advanced organics to keep synthetics from destroying them.  Explain this "logic".  Talk about the ultimate no win situation.  Along with this they purposely leave reaper tech lying around-the very thing that in fact helps organics to develop synthetics is left for them to use.  So, not only will we destroy organics to keep the synthetics they might independently develop from destroying them, but we will destroy them for using the tech we left for them to use.  WTF?!!!!!!!!!

To put it simply, you eat cookies made from your own recipe and I will kill you so you don't die from eating the cookies.  Furthermore, if you eat the cookies I left laying around for no real reason, I will kill you so you don't die from eating the cookies.  And, you have no choice in the matter because ultimately you will eat the cookies.

Organic war against its creations and the lose. Thats been shown through out the games with the geth.  Straight computation is to save
organics it cant reach a certain advancement. It is cold and to the
point. It is what a machine would do not a organic. That is the logic.
Never said you had to agree with it but it is the logic behind it.

[LiarasShield]

from the way it sounds obviously you didn't

[xaurabh123]

@Mr thanny
that catalyst thing is failed logic . Because he runs million years of cycles but cannot even predict about how the synthetics can react, that there can always be another way. Which of course shepard knew.

[LiarasShield]

ok if was must ment to mean that organics would never reach the capability as the evolving constant machines then I don't think their would be a problem but that is not what is stated what is stated is that the created will always rebel against their creators this logic does not work if the creators try to destroy what they have created first and definitly doesn't apply if the created go to a place to avoid the quarians so that they don't have to fight anymore and again they only really fought shepard and the others because they were being controlled