23455 réponses à ce sujet

[Flammenpanzer]

Flubberlub wrote...

The beam had a fail-safe and sent Shepard back to earth... Nope...

Maybe spacemagic generated a 'space-time temperal mass effect electro-warp field' (yes I made that up)around Shepard that lasted long enough to get him to the surface.

[LiarasShield]

thank flammen for the alternate liara ending I loved it ^^

[LiarasShield]

don't suppose you can make a femshep liara one though?

[stellap20]

Flammenpanzer I have seen all your videos on YouTube. Your space magic logic is mor logical than BW. Still waiting for a Garrus endind by the way.

[LiarasShield]

or was the ending that you made considered to mean shepard as a whole wether shepard was male or female if you can clarifie that for me that would be cool lol

Modifié par LiarasShield, 18 avril 2012 - 08:34 .

[stellap20]

[quote]LiarasShield wrote...

or was the ending that you made considered to mean shepard as a whole wether shepard was male or female if you can clarifie that for me that would be cool lol[/quote
the comments in youtube say that it was made to fit male and fem.

[LiarasShield]

and Ign trying to compalin about copyright when the content is bioware / ea is a bit sad just cause you got one of your reporters in the game doesn't mean that you created the game

[LiarasShield]

[quote]stellap20 wrote...

[quote]LiarasShield wrote...

or was the ending that you made considered to mean shepard as a whole wether shepard was male or female if you can clarifie that for me that would be cool lol[/quote
the comments in youtube say that it was made to fit male and fem.
[/quote]

well thank I didn't really look at the comments lol

[LiarasShield]

still flame thanks for that ending it is really compeling

[Wordweaver2010]

So in the end some of my ideas of why the Reapers were have been confirmed... they were indeed a form of repository of previous cycles' species. Also, it has become clear why the device was called the Crucible.
As for the ending, it was clearly very different from the endings of the previous games, which ended in big bangs and on possibly somewhat grim but optimistic notes. But I really appreciate the ME3 ending (I chose synthesis, by the way - Joker and EDI as Adam and Eve in Paradise was a nice touch too), because what else would have done the story - or Shepard - justice? It'd have been impossible for me to imagine him sitting down in retirement after saving the entire galaxy, that would have been pretty anticlimatic. It was a happy ending that I got, though not one for Shepard personally.  As is stated after the credits, he has indeed become a legend.
I can't say I didn't cry at the ending, and legend or no legend I'll miss Shepard. But there was no continuing after that point, and the book is finally closed, and closed well. Maybe it's not such a big coincidence that the ending reminded me of the ending of Matrix - synthesis again, no great defeat and no great victory. It'd have been nice to see it all end in personal happiness for Shepard. But legends don't end like that, fairytales do.

[AmstradHero]

noivoieidoi wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
One, it still introduces a new character right at the ending - which as has been established time and time again, is a poor plot device for when the writers cannot produce a logical ending that follows on sequentially from previous events

Disturbing, indeed. And instead of ‘breaking the rules’, they call it ‘creativity’. But what more can one do than taking it all and hoping for better days? Did you know that for thousands of years Egyptian arts obeyed to the rule of symmetry? Suddenly, Amenhotep III thought differently. Then Egypt reached its peak in arts. Now everything is back to normal. See? Another fun fact: it’s been established time and time again that women are inferior beings and their place is in the kitchen (unless the dog needs the place). Yet lately, some seem to disagree (!?). Just saying...

This isn't a new concept. Deus Ex Machina is a device that has been reviled for many decades for specific literary reasons. Go look it up. Yet somehow Mass Effect gets a pass and the ending is "brilliant and artistic" even though it uses this horrible device. Dragging in social considerations here is utterly irrelevant for a literary discussion.

noivoieidoi wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
It's a major break in the storytelling to create an arbitrary ending of the writer's choice.

And we, the kids, have a problem with the authority.

Stop this. Again, you're posing this like the disagreement with the ending is a social consideration. It's NOT. All my arguments are on the literary level. You can argue the social aspect all you like, heck, in some ways I potentially agree that artists shouldn't change their art due to popular opinion. That said, the art should be internally consistent. The ending of Mass Effect 3 isn't, so all your social postulations are utterly irrelevant because they're not addressing the issue at hand, the specific and multitude of literary problems with the ending.

noivoieidoi wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
Secondly, you're saying that this character should be allowed to wilfully deceive the player.

Huh?

You wanted the Space Child to not be the creator of the Reapers. You wanted it to be lying to the player. You wanted it telling mistruths in the final moments of the game. At least have the decency to quote my quote of you if you're going to debate this.

noivoieidoi wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
That's a gross crime against a game series that has revolved around choice.

Story (as you mentioned above). Games revolving around choice: chess, Go, politics, marriage etc.

You're confusing mechanical choice with choice in how the game itself develops. Heck, you've even said this "story". Yes, the choice is in the story rather than simply the mechanics. Except the ending.

noivoieidoi wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
people are trying to correlate all the facts that have been presented to the player, which is not possible to do in any logical fashion or without copious amounts of handwaving.

Try a different approach. Unlike the technical manuals, where 1+1 is always objectively 2, in arts most of the time the result of 1+1 is more personal and often unexpected. On a sad note, there are people who never find it.

You're missing the point once again. I can quite easily find personal notes in the ending. I can think of a myriad of different possibilites for each ending after it plays out. What cannot be done is to reconcile the ending with the rest of the game. Players cannot "personally interpret" all the bizarre and inexplicable events in the ending that occur without sacrificing the internal logic and consistency of the universe that has been established in the games up until this point. I could potentially find a solution - but it would involve breaking established lore from the rest of the series to do so. That is why the ending is an objective failure.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 18 avril 2012 - 09:15 .

[AwefulShot]

Wordweaver2010 wrote...

So in the end some of my ideas of why the Reapers were have been confirmed... they were indeed a form of repository of previous cycles' species. Also, it has become clear why the device was called the Crucible.
As for the ending, it was clearly very different from the endings of the previous games, which ended in big bangs and on possibly somewhat grim but optimistic notes. But I really appreciate the ME3 ending (I chose synthesis, by the way - Joker and EDI as Adam and Eve in Paradise was a nice touch too), because what else would have done the story - or Shepard - justice? It'd have been impossible for me to imagine him sitting down in retirement after saving the entire galaxy, that would have been pretty anticlimatic. It was a happy ending that I got, though not one for Shepard personally.  As is stated after the credits, he has indeed become a legend.
I can't say I didn't cry at the ending, and legend or no legend I'll miss Shepard. But there was no continuing after that point, and the book is finally closed, and closed well. Maybe it's not such a big coincidence that the ending reminded me of the ending of Matrix - synthesis again, no great defeat and no great victory. It'd have been nice to see it all end in personal happiness for Shepard. But legends don't end like that, fairytales do.

While I agree with you regards the ending (Syn. here too) - but the lack of closure is more the sticking point.  I still adhere to the idea of a funernal scene for Shepard with all your crew members remembering (as cut scenes) there 'moments' with Shepard.  That for be would have been the icing on the ME3 cake - the scene would have also taken me on a 'recap' journey of ME1, ME2 & ME3.  This is where EA/Bioware missed the mark for me.

[LKx]

What i consider poor writing:
- unquestionable deus ex machina in the last few minutes
- lack of coerence and  loss of genre and characters depth
- lack of choises and sensible consequences of previous actions or senseless consequences of them
- lack of clarifications of the aftermaths
- the goofy escape and the landing of the normandy on an "Eden" planet
- Shooting a tube to activate a machine and walking toward the explosion
- Stargazer post credits scene in the "Eden" planet (Just because of the landing scene)

What i do NOT consider poor writing:
- The possible sacrifice of Shepard (if the outcome was well motivated, now he just takes the starbrat's word for granted)
- The loss of mass relays (if why it was neccessary in all the "three" endings and the consequences were well explained, without leaving us, due to our knowledge, with the feeling that galactic
civilizations are fuked up and the fleets stranded in the sol system and
their civilizations are doomed to a dramatic future)

Modifié par LKx, 18 avril 2012 - 10:32 .

[Wordweaver2010]

As for the mass relays' destruction: The mass relays were built by the Reapers, as was the Citadel. Now that a cycle has proposed to have found a new solution to the creator/creation problem that faced previous cycles, they are destroyed. As both Sovereign and Legion said: By using Reaper tech (eg mass relays), peoples' technologies develop according to Reaper designs, and are blinded to alternatives. Now all Reaper tech is gone. Mass Relays and FTL drives can be built independently (as proved by the Conduit), but it is the new cycle that will determine its own course and technologies. So it is actually a good idea to remove all these things from the galaxy at this point.

Also, the ending realizes the promise inherent in the term "Crucible" beside the fact that it contains designs by previous cycles: Everything is melted down and recast. And after uniting the Quarian and the Geth, not to mention all the other spacefaring civilisations, which showed the promise of synthesis, there was no other choice left (also, if I'm not mistaken, Joker is no longer limping at the end, so he has already benefited from synthesis).

Take heart from good books here. There is personal happiness and happiness for everybody else, and the ending of ME3 realizes the latter (which does not happen too often in gaming or films, I might add - the Hollywood notion that the hero survives is strong, but that does not make it a better ending for stories. After all, Liara did offer Shepard to simply run away, and live out his years in hiding - a human could certainly die of old age before the cycle ended). I won't deny at all that I was saddened and felt as if there was a hole left in me when Shepard was gone at the end. But it is a fitting end, and it has been hinted at throughout ME3 (most of all in the last dream in which Shepard and the child burn, but Shepard smiles).

Modifié par Wordweaver2010, 18 avril 2012 - 10:12 .

[3DandBeyond]

Blackvista wrote...

While I'm sure EA gave Bioware considerable resources to work on the ME series... I can't help but wonder whether the soul of the studio could ever survive being part of a company that thinks like this:



"EA CEO John Riccitiello On Gaming Microtransactions"

This is bad.  Give players quality games with reasons to buy more things that are also quality.  It is gouging if all you are doing is charging for something players actually need to play the game.  Players start to notice and start to run for the exits quickly.  If you want to charge me for extra content I am fine with that, but when you start charging me for things that are integral to my success in the game, you are cheap, you are greedy, and I stop buying.

There are a lot of people that are quite willing to pay for truly complete games and then will consistently buy more from a company that delivers on that.  They will spend their limited hard-earned money with that company time and again.  That was what Bioware had going for it.  Give players value and when they can only buy one game, it will be yours.  Give them crap and they will begin to ignore you. 

It is one thing to charge me for custom armor or guns I don't need to complete or play the game, it is quite another to start charging for ammo in a game.  DLC should always be optional content.  Any company that starts charging for additional necessary content is optional in my opinion.  As it is ME3 starts to straddle the line a bit.  No, you don't have to pay for multiplayer, but you do basically need it if you wish to get the awesomely better endings in order to have enough EMS.  For some this does mean extra cost I think for the 360, so as I said it straddles the line.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 18 avril 2012 - 10:16 .

[clarkusdarkus]

this thread still going, they proved there not listening with the extended cut noone wanted. as for DLC, im all for it aslong as it enhances the game post ending, kinda like skyrim other areas dlc, fallout etc...any chance to visit a favoured world again would be worth it, but ending dlc, horse armor, ammo for battlefield, skins for weapons etc will not be getting my money. and im baffled by ppl who actualy do purchase that crap.

[Holger1405]

Naugi wrote...

EugeneBi wrote...

Naugi wrote...

missfemshep wrote...

YOU decide what your outcome is, No 2 peoples experiences are the same.

Is this about ending? What game have you been playing? Not ME3, that's for sure...

Haha yeah she was talking about the ending. Apparently it doesnt end the same for all of us regardless of what we did in the 3 games up to that point ... oh no, its aaaaall different ...

Guessing she has been indoctrinated by the Reapers.

No, she did understand the endings, you don't.
And you also didn't understand the meaning of "No 2 peoples experiences are the same"
Way to go pal...

[Wordweaver2010]

Perhaps the Gateway books by Fred Pohl can help us some way toward coming to terms with Mass Effect's ending. In these books, a race dubbed "Assassins" (Reapers) regularly destroys organic life, because they are afraid organics would interfere with their long-term plans (VERY long term). However, the "Assassins" abandon their destructive activities when they realise organic life could actually become like them, and want to do so, something they had never encountered before, and hadn't expected to see.

[No_MSG]

I was thinking today. The endings for Mass Effect 3 are all pulled from ONE of Jade Empire's ending. Remember, those who played, when you get to the end, and the Final Boss tells you his reason for being evil. You can kill him,  make your final choice, and end the game; or you can agree with his points and let him kill you. I laughed when I found out that was even a choice. Because it was ludicrous. But now I'm forced into that. Sure, I get to choose my poison, but I'm still forced to allow the leader of my enemies to kill me. The being who has a slave race committing genocide for him.

Modifié par No_MSG, 18 avril 2012 - 10:52 .

[zarnk567]

Well im not upset about shepard dying.... some of my favorite stories and games had the protaginist die. I'm upset because they shoe-horned a "deus ex machina" ending into a game that had no foreshadowing to it besides two sentences throught the whole series..... and they then copied and pasted the ending to Deus Ex into their game.... Bioware even used the same colors as Deus Ex...  so I'am more mad about the horrible writing that took place in the ending and broke all "suspension of dis-belief" for me.

Modifié par zarnk567, 18 avril 2012 - 11:10 .

[Kaelef]

AmstradHero wrote...
This isn't a new concept. Deus Ex Machina is a device that has been reviled for many decades for specific literary reasons. Go look it up. Yet somehow Mass Effect gets a pass and the ending is "brilliant and artistic" even though it uses this horrible device. Dragging in social considerations here is utterly irrelevant for a literary discussion.

Personally, I found the ME3 brilliant and artistic on a technical level, even though it failed (as many have pointed out) on a literary/logical level. Yes, my judgements are that nuanced!  

[jomurph]

 I think my only thought is this: A sacrificed willingly chosen (especially in the face of more superficially desirable options) is the most powerful story I've ever experienced. A sacrifice forced, is no sacrifice at all.  I admire and respect the story of Mass Effect.  I admire the sacrifice story of Shepard as told by the talented Bioware writing team.  But it was a sacrifice forced, not a sacrifice chosen.

To the writers of Mass Effect 1,2, and 3: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!  Your story has allowed me to think more deeply about (and more importantly, actively explore) such important concepts as free will, choice, consequences, racism, ends & means, compassion, forgiveness, and redemption, just to name a few.  I am in your debt.  Especially to those who wrote for Mordin.  His story of guilt and redemption struck a deep chord with me.  It was an intensely meaningful moment for this man.  Your writing MEANT something.  Your writing CHANGED someone. This is the most meaningful compliment I know how to give.  Thank you.

Which is my critisizm for the ending of Mass Effect.  Mordin's story meant something to me. His wasn't a preconcieved story from a book, but an ending personally shaped by me.  Shepard's ending was impersonal.  An ending crafted by someone else.  A beautuiful and poetic ending, but someone elses ending.  Ultimately I would have settled on a ending of sacrifice for my Shepard's story, but it would have meant so much more if there had been other more superfically appealing alternate endings available.

I honestly don't think it's too late to provide those other endings as an alternative.  I'll watch them and experience them, and ultimately settle on the sacrificial/redemptive figure of Shepard as my "cannon" Shepard.  And it will have meant all the more to me for the fact that there were alternative choices.

Whatever your final story decisions wind up being, know that you have been a wonderful literary companion for me throughout these past years!  (And to the writers of Mordin, Talli, Garrus, and Thane: you have moved me in ways that will stay with me for the rest of my life.  I hope to meet you someday and tell you that in person. )

~Regards
Josh

[Kaelef]

jomurph wrote...

 I think my only thought is this: A sacrificed willingly chosen (especially in the face of more superficially desirable options) is the most powerful story I've ever experienced. A sacrifice forced, is no sacrifice at all.  I admire and respect the story of Mass Effect.  I admire the sacrifice story of Shepard as told by the talented Bioware writing team.  But it was a sacrifice forced, not a sacrifice chosen.

To the writers of Mass Effect 1,2, and 3: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!  Your story has allowed me to think more deeply about (and more importantly, actively explore) such important concepts as free will, choice, consequences, racism, ends & means, compassion, forgiveness, and redemption, just to name a few.  I am in your debt.  Especially to those who wrote for Mordin.  His story of guilt and redemption struck a deep chord with me.  It was an intensely meaningful moment for this man.  Your writing MEANT something.  Your writing CHANGED someone. This is the most meaningful compliment I know how to give.  Thank you.

Which is my critisizm for the ending of Mass Effect.  Mordin's story meant something to me. His wasn't a preconcieved story from a book, but an ending personally shaped by me.  Shepard's ending was impersonal.  An ending crafted by someone else.  A beautuiful and poetic ending, but someone elses ending.  Ultimately I would have settled on a ending of sacrifice for my Shepard's story, but it would have meant so much more if there had been other more superfically appealing alternate endings available.

I honestly don't think it's too late to provide those other endings as an alternative.  I'll watch them and experience them, and ultimately settle on the sacrificial/redemptive figure of Shepard as my "cannon" Shepard.  And it will have meant all the more to me for the fact that there were alternative choices.

Whatever your final story decisions wind up being, know that you have been a wonderful literary companion for me throughout these past years!  (And to the writers of Mordin, Talli, Garrus, and Thane: you have moved me in ways that will stay with me for the rest of my life.  I hope to meet you someday and tell you that in person. )

~Regards
Josh

Nicely stated.

[LiarasShield]

Like I have mentioned a thousand time I can handle a sad or bittersweet ending if it makes sense and if the characters remain true to themselves the thing with the star child though thing with joker abandoning you with the rest of the crew which is so unlikely since they have been by your side from the very begining are a crew that would not leave you behind without knowing your dead the collector base and the battle with soverign have proved time and again that they are loyal so for them to do complete 360 and leave the fleets stranded in space and be damn cowards is un****ing believeable

[LiarasShield]

let alone shepard giving into the advanced ais flawed logic without fighting it and looknig for another way or proving that hes wrong through thee events we have been through and showing him that if the created rebeled against their creators then the reapers would have already destroyed the plans for the crucible or destroy the catalyst but no they still follow his orders or functions that he had assigned to them from long long agoso no shepard becoming a mindless zombie star child giving flawed circular logic that can be torn apart and shepards crew leaving when they never would do that all very spot on reasons why all these endings just aren't acceptable